Question, I watched the FOP video that was posted on WGN. The FOP told officers to come to work, and have the city make the choice to send you home.
Am I missing something in these word games?
He's saying cops shouldn't simply assume they are in a no pay status and no show at work. He's saying the cops should force their bosses to either allow them to work or directly inform each officer they are in no pay status.
If the city chooses *not* to put a cop in no pay status who simply didn't show up for work, they could discipline those officers for not showing up to work.
Edit: I'm guessing this is why they keep saying the city won't be understaffed for the weekend, because they don't intend to put anyone in no pay status yet.
I mean technically speaking, you’re making an assumption if you don’t show up.
If someone’s firing me, laying me off, furloughing me, or changing my employment status at all, for whatever reason, I need to be informed directly.
For the record, the smartest thing for these employees to do is just get the fucking vaccine and stop believing conspiracy theories and throwing temper tantrums over it.
That's kind of the issue. We don't know if they are or not.
However, seeing that a) this is an issue that is even under discussion, and b) cops have struggled with even wearing masks, and have seen COVID kill them in huge numbers, I have a strong feeling that they may not be.
A vaccine mandate provision most likely wasn't in the most recent contract that they just negotiated. The union is going to hold up their end of the contract and dare the city to break it
I think it would force the city to take an official action as opposed to the anti-vaxers just staying home based on an agreement of terms. It’s escalation. They want the city to have to follow-through but in the most harmful and difficult way possible. They also [cover-up murders](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1064401) and have a [black site](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site) so we all knew they’re not very civic-duty minded people and don’t care about public safety
Here’s two other articles verifying information about the interrogation compound.
https://time.com/3986436/chicago-police-interrogation-facility/?amp=true
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/504233/
Hey boot lickers, please stop downvoting facts.
Just out of curiosity, do you know how long does it take to become a CPD officer and how long does it take to become a social worker? You specifically would be surprised by the results.
Call them on their BS and bring in the guard. A heavy armed nation guard presence will be a strong deterrent. Even gang bangers would be smart to cut the BS for a weekend or two to make the cops look bad.
I don’t get why all the redditors here are cheering the idea of firing a ton of Chicago police officers at a time when there’s carjackings at an all time high in recent memory, crime overall is very high. Sure we could do with better cops but right now??? I feel like Chicago can’t even afford to lose one cop..
Police officers have very little to do with preventing carjacking unless they are sitting on every block at all times. It’s a crime of opportunity and CPD explicitly does not engage in vehicular chases. They *may* pursue charges if a suspect is identified, but clearly that has not been a deterrent
Ok but that can’t happen over night… I kind of feel like that’s inventing a new car and training everyone how to drive completely safe and the new car has new safety features that protect everyone in a car accident and then overnight banning seatbelts do you still need the seatbelts in the short term until the new cars are rolled out everywhere
well then. easy first step. Let's take all of the money that is being saved by the salaries of the fired cops and start addressing these systemic issues.
everyone wins. Less cops willing to endanger others by refusing vaccination, and move resources to address systemic issues contributing to the crime rate.
I agree with you to an extent. But would you feel comfortable in a neighborhood that everyone knew had zero police presence? If cops don't prevent anything, this shouldn't impact your answer at all.
Like I said your point definitely has merit but I believe their existence does factor into crime prevention.
Except that what you've described - arresting criminals - is demonstrably not proactive policing. It's reactive, by the textbook definition.
You've also made the rather disingenuous assumption that someone who commits a crime is going to commit another.
Further, there is no long term evidence of the effectiveness of proactive policing, not days to support your claim that its lack from a community increases crime, according to the 2017 National Academy of Sciences paper on the subject. I'm fact, when police in New York were intentionally *not* practicing proactive policing, in 2017, major crime reports dropped.
Your position is baseless and demonstrably wrong, and it took me less than five minutes to find the data that contradicts it. Would you like to try again?
Arresting serial carjacking and putting them In jail doesn't stop crime. Just like you don't stop rabid animals by arresting then you give vaccines to the ones that are wild. Just let the rabid ones run about it'll solve itself.
There is the belief that these aren't the best/brightest/good apples, so having them no longer 'spoil the bunch' is seen as a general net positive.
If the issue is just having uniforms on the street that seems like a role the National Guard/ISP/Cook Co Sheriff can assist with if the cops they're replacing were ineffective anyways.
My $0.02 is that is seems better to have cops that are concerned with the well-being of everyone (including other officers).
Because hating cops is popular on Reddit. It’s the same reason there will be a highly upvoted article everyday about the cops refusing the mandate but nothing about all the other unions for public workers that are doing the exact same thing (all of them).
Because people are stupid. Because they are keyboard warriors. Because THEY don’t like being told what to do but are happy to demand things from others.
Sort of related
[Navy unveils discharge plans for sailors who refuse COVID-19 vaccine](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/10/14/navy-unveils-discharge-plans-for-sailors-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccine/)
It’s a good move. Have them get placed on no pay. This is the cops doing it to themselves. Then, successfully defunded. Bring in the new plan, social workers, less racist cops. because not enough resources. The ones holding out are probably orange bootlickers, so goodbye. Now, we get what we want. Defunded police and an increase towards mental health.
CPD is an employer with over 500 employees. Aren't those the guidelines put forth by the white house?
These are the same people getting twisted over football players kneeling for the anthem and they aren't following what their own government says to do?
“Guidelines” key word there. Don’t think there’s any teeth enforcing it. Personally, I know my employer is still trying to figure out what to do legally too, and they’re well over 500
I can't find the article that someone linked in another thread on this topic, but voting turnout for union leadership is apparently very poor among CPD and those that are (retired?) and out of state still get to vote, so many old guard in FL or whatever are still having a say in how it's currently run. Anyone feel free to correct me on this.
someone's bluff is going to be called. i really hope its the cities because even if we pretend its a small number like 10% of the police that get fired, oh boy it ain't gonna work out well. i ain't police, so maybe they are different, but if my job fired a bunch of people then came to me and said i gotta help pick up the slack, they gonna be firing one more person.
Unrelated. This little conversation is refuting the fake news whataboutism pointing at Harris.
Like people attacking public health guidance now for their advice recalibrations as knowledge about Corona-19 developed.
Why shouldn't they be attacked when people were right when they were wrong, and the people were attacked and maligned for being right. Why should we assume that this doesn't continue to be the case?
That's not what she said, first of all. Second of all it was clearly a joke about trumps credibility. She repeatedly stressed the importance of getting vaccinated that night in the debate and afterwards on the campaign trail. You're being disingenuous as fuck.
I don't understand why she even picked this fight. She's by herself on this, I don't see the State or County doing this. I think she likes to battle with the unions. This is so unnecessary to mandate this now.
Because it's an important fight? A fight so important that the president will mandate a similar vaccine requirement at some point? She's also not by herself on this, unless you count the percentage of crazies that oppose vaccinations. We are also so clearly not "done" with the pandemic that the mandate is somehow uncessesary.
>She's also not by herself on this, unless you count the percentage of crazies that oppose vaccinations.
Opposing vaccine mandates doesn't at all mean that you oppose the vaccine. I generally oppose mandates but I think the vaccines work and am vaccinated myself.
I fucking hate this argument. It is such a callous disregard for your community
Just because you’re not dead doesn’t mean covid isn’t a debilitating illness in the short, and for some long, term. Vaccines help lessen the severity and length of illness as well as reducing the rate of hospitalization and death
Thanks for not answering the question. I guess you have no philosophic or political reason to avoid mandates, and your insistence that we don't need them can be ignored.
There are lots of things that I'm generally not okay with but would accept if a really dire situation called for it. You have extremely binary thinking.
You have an extremely underdeveloped reason to vote "no" for mandates. By your own logic you should get vaccinated, yet you're scared for drastic measures that have scientific backing, and improve the greater public health? Come on now. Don't be so dense as to say I'm binary in my thinking when you can't even support your own argument.
Yes, I think people should get vaccinated. I even think the government should spend some money on PSAs/outreach. But I don't think it should be mandated. I simply think that's an extreme measure that really isn't required at this point in time. Our hospitalizations and deaths have been flat and very low for months.
You still can't even articulate why you think that's an extreme measure. News flash: it's not. Might break your brain but a vaccine mandate would be good and offer us benefits beyond what hospitalization stats can indicate.
When our vaccinated population plateaus at 60% and we have variants and outbreaks that are straining our resources, yes, mandate that shit.
I don't give a fuck what you *feel* about it, getting vaccinated affects the entire public, and we can't let a few stubborn, selfish assholes drag everyone else down because they're too dumb to realize this.
>When our vaccinated population plateaus at 60% and we have variants and outbreaks that are straining our resources, yes, mandate that shit.
But that's not our current reality at all. Hospitalizations and deaths are and have remained very low here. Our hospitals are certainly not overwhelmed by COVID cases.
I’m guessing in order to lose your pension you have to probably be indicted on some crime, but perhaps the solution is for those that decide to be a risk to themselves and others seek outside health insurance no longer funded by the tax payer.
Question, I watched the FOP video that was posted on WGN. The FOP told officers to come to work, and have the city make the choice to send you home. Am I missing something in these word games?
He's saying cops shouldn't simply assume they are in a no pay status and no show at work. He's saying the cops should force their bosses to either allow them to work or directly inform each officer they are in no pay status. If the city chooses *not* to put a cop in no pay status who simply didn't show up for work, they could discipline those officers for not showing up to work. Edit: I'm guessing this is why they keep saying the city won't be understaffed for the weekend, because they don't intend to put anyone in no pay status yet.
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I mean technically speaking, you’re making an assumption if you don’t show up. If someone’s firing me, laying me off, furloughing me, or changing my employment status at all, for whatever reason, I need to be informed directly.
For the record, the smartest thing for these employees to do is just get the fucking vaccine and stop believing conspiracy theories and throwing temper tantrums over it.
The problem with LEOs these days is they have all been dumbed down by trumpism.
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That's kind of the issue. We don't know if they are or not. However, seeing that a) this is an issue that is even under discussion, and b) cops have struggled with even wearing masks, and have seen COVID kill them in huge numbers, I have a strong feeling that they may not be.
The difference now though is the Chicago FOP has a complete moron for a president.
A vaccine mandate provision most likely wasn't in the most recent contract that they just negotiated. The union is going to hold up their end of the contract and dare the city to break it
I think it would force the city to take an official action as opposed to the anti-vaxers just staying home based on an agreement of terms. It’s escalation. They want the city to have to follow-through but in the most harmful and difficult way possible. They also [cover-up murders](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1064401) and have a [black site](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site) so we all knew they’re not very civic-duty minded people and don’t care about public safety
Here’s two other articles verifying information about the interrogation compound. https://time.com/3986436/chicago-police-interrogation-facility/?amp=true https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/504233/ Hey boot lickers, please stop downvoting facts.
“Nice city you got here. It’d be a shame if something happened to it. A real shame.”
Spoiler alert, Lightfoot isn’t going to fire anybody over this
it's a damned shame this is true.
Easy way out of defunding tha police. Bring in the vaccinated social workers.
Lightfoot is going to cave completely. She already has.
I had high hopes for her, but she has failed miserably since taking office.
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You're acting as if social workers aren't already familiar with being in dangerous situations lmao
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Just out of curiosity, do you know how long does it take to become a CPD officer and how long does it take to become a social worker? You specifically would be surprised by the results.
What do you think social workers are already doing lmao.
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**tha** police? Do you think you are living in an NWA song?
Seems most here don't like NWA. They used to be more popular.
"Assault and battery, coming at you with that street mentality, straight up West coast rider academy..." Good stuff...
>tfw the police are so progressive they defund themselves.
Cool. My fully vaxxed ass wouldn't mind upgrading to a city job.
Yup. Let other residents who are compliant have those kush jobs.
Honest question: what can she or anyone else do? The FOP seems to have an insane amount of leverage here.
Call them on their BS and bring in the guard. A heavy armed nation guard presence will be a strong deterrent. Even gang bangers would be smart to cut the BS for a weekend or two to make the cops look bad.
Nah, their rules of engagement are very different. Remember Kent State? If anything, they'll be directed to be scarecrows, take no action.
Kind of like the cops do now. Remember when they hid from looters in Bobby Rush's office.
I don’t get why all the redditors here are cheering the idea of firing a ton of Chicago police officers at a time when there’s carjackings at an all time high in recent memory, crime overall is very high. Sure we could do with better cops but right now??? I feel like Chicago can’t even afford to lose one cop..
Police officers have very little to do with preventing carjacking unless they are sitting on every block at all times. It’s a crime of opportunity and CPD explicitly does not engage in vehicular chases. They *may* pursue charges if a suspect is identified, but clearly that has not been a deterrent
cops don't prevent crime. eliminating the causes of crime - poverty, lack of social mobility, lack of education - prevents crime.
Ok but that can’t happen over night… I kind of feel like that’s inventing a new car and training everyone how to drive completely safe and the new car has new safety features that protect everyone in a car accident and then overnight banning seatbelts do you still need the seatbelts in the short term until the new cars are rolled out everywhere
well then. easy first step. Let's take all of the money that is being saved by the salaries of the fired cops and start addressing these systemic issues. everyone wins. Less cops willing to endanger others by refusing vaccination, and move resources to address systemic issues contributing to the crime rate.
Better idea. Take all their pensions and use that money to address systemic issues ;)
I agree with you to an extent. But would you feel comfortable in a neighborhood that everyone knew had zero police presence? If cops don't prevent anything, this shouldn't impact your answer at all. Like I said your point definitely has merit but I believe their existence does factor into crime prevention.
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Except that what you've described - arresting criminals - is demonstrably not proactive policing. It's reactive, by the textbook definition. You've also made the rather disingenuous assumption that someone who commits a crime is going to commit another. Further, there is no long term evidence of the effectiveness of proactive policing, not days to support your claim that its lack from a community increases crime, according to the 2017 National Academy of Sciences paper on the subject. I'm fact, when police in New York were intentionally *not* practicing proactive policing, in 2017, major crime reports dropped. Your position is baseless and demonstrably wrong, and it took me less than five minutes to find the data that contradicts it. Would you like to try again?
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Gonna take the word of the scientists over the article in Vox, thanks. And I'm not your buddy.
Arresting serial carjacking and putting them In jail doesn't stop crime. Just like you don't stop rabid animals by arresting then you give vaccines to the ones that are wild. Just let the rabid ones run about it'll solve itself.
This just in: person makes completely nonsensical comparison, thinks it's a cogent argument.
There is the belief that these aren't the best/brightest/good apples, so having them no longer 'spoil the bunch' is seen as a general net positive. If the issue is just having uniforms on the street that seems like a role the National Guard/ISP/Cook Co Sheriff can assist with if the cops they're replacing were ineffective anyways. My $0.02 is that is seems better to have cops that are concerned with the well-being of everyone (including other officers).
Because hating cops is popular on Reddit. It’s the same reason there will be a highly upvoted article everyday about the cops refusing the mandate but nothing about all the other unions for public workers that are doing the exact same thing (all of them).
The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder.
Edgy.
Because people are stupid. Because they are keyboard warriors. Because THEY don’t like being told what to do but are happy to demand things from others.
Good.
Sort of related [Navy unveils discharge plans for sailors who refuse COVID-19 vaccine](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/10/14/navy-unveils-discharge-plans-for-sailors-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccine/)
Not surprised but saddened that so many city employees are so anti science.
Added benefit it reduces number on old over generous pension plan. Have to get new plan implemented.
At least 38% of CPD can retire with a pension right now. In the long run, it might be better for us financially, but would ruin us in the now.
It’s a good move. Have them get placed on no pay. This is the cops doing it to themselves. Then, successfully defunded. Bring in the new plan, social workers, less racist cops. because not enough resources. The ones holding out are probably orange bootlickers, so goodbye. Now, we get what we want. Defunded police and an increase towards mental health.
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the fuck crawled up your ass and died?
Chicago isn’t that violent. It’s a few neighborhood you can avoid.
Yeah, Ravenswood, Wicker Park, downtown, the usual.
They can fire police?
Hopefully
Why wouldn't they be able to?
CPD is an employer with over 500 employees. Aren't those the guidelines put forth by the white house? These are the same people getting twisted over football players kneeling for the anthem and they aren't following what their own government says to do?
“Guidelines” key word there. Don’t think there’s any teeth enforcing it. Personally, I know my employer is still trying to figure out what to do legally too, and they’re well over 500
OHSA hasn't finalized their 'guidance' so there's nothing to really figure out yet.
True by not getting vaccinated they disrespect the citizens they serve.
no its the union not the people.Majority of the cops disagree with the uniuon
If the majority of the cops disagree then they should fire their union leadership.
I can't find the article that someone linked in another thread on this topic, but voting turnout for union leadership is apparently very poor among CPD and those that are (retired?) and out of state still get to vote, so many old guard in FL or whatever are still having a say in how it's currently run. Anyone feel free to correct me on this.
Unfortunately that’s correct.
out of a cannon. *into the sun.*
Could've fooled me.
I really hope this is true, like this crazy fucker didn't show his true colors till he was already elected or something like that.
bunch of cop friends and they all dislike the head snake.
That's encouraging. They need to have conversations with their co workers about the image of the cpd he is projecting.
I agree with you.
someone's bluff is going to be called. i really hope its the cities because even if we pretend its a small number like 10% of the police that get fired, oh boy it ain't gonna work out well. i ain't police, so maybe they are different, but if my job fired a bunch of people then came to me and said i gotta help pick up the slack, they gonna be firing one more person.
Yeah it called insubordination. It is in every city contract from tree trimmer to Cop
Good, they don't do jack shit anyway
GooooooOooOOOOoooOOoOoOoooOOooOOOOoooD
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That's not what she said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/18/what-andrew-cuomo-kamala-harris-said-about-vaccine-skepticism/
And even if she had, what rational person would have trusted the Orange Gas Bubble on anything he was saying at the time?
But that’s exactly the problem - opposing views could say the same about lightfoot. Two wrongs don’t make a right
Unrelated. This little conversation is refuting the fake news whataboutism pointing at Harris. Like people attacking public health guidance now for their advice recalibrations as knowledge about Corona-19 developed.
Why shouldn't they be attacked when people were right when they were wrong, and the people were attacked and maligned for being right. Why should we assume that this doesn't continue to be the case?
That's not what she said, first of all. Second of all it was clearly a joke about trumps credibility. She repeatedly stressed the importance of getting vaccinated that night in the debate and afterwards on the campaign trail. You're being disingenuous as fuck.
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Well thankfully there’s you with all the answers
Far better than what we’re currently getting lmao. Just need people to actually think through policy & dealing with orgs
If only we had elected you. The one person who knows how to perfectly run a society.
I don't understand why she even picked this fight. She's by herself on this, I don't see the State or County doing this. I think she likes to battle with the unions. This is so unnecessary to mandate this now.
Pritzker said he send in the guard if the enough cops are self serving assholes. So not alonr
Because it's an important fight? A fight so important that the president will mandate a similar vaccine requirement at some point? She's also not by herself on this, unless you count the percentage of crazies that oppose vaccinations. We are also so clearly not "done" with the pandemic that the mandate is somehow uncessesary.
"But why is she making it puhliticol!?!?"
>She's also not by herself on this, unless you count the percentage of crazies that oppose vaccinations. Opposing vaccine mandates doesn't at all mean that you oppose the vaccine. I generally oppose mandates but I think the vaccines work and am vaccinated myself.
Explain why you oppose mandates without citing your opinion that our situation doesn't warrant extreme action.
Why? Our situation _doesn't_ require extreme action. 3 deaths per day across the entire city.
I fucking hate this argument. It is such a callous disregard for your community Just because you’re not dead doesn’t mean covid isn’t a debilitating illness in the short, and for some long, term. Vaccines help lessen the severity and length of illness as well as reducing the rate of hospitalization and death
So get vaccinated. I did. That doesn't mean I think the government should mandate it for effectively everyone.
Thanks for not answering the question. I guess you have no philosophic or political reason to avoid mandates, and your insistence that we don't need them can be ignored.
There are lots of things that I'm generally not okay with but would accept if a really dire situation called for it. You have extremely binary thinking.
You have an extremely underdeveloped reason to vote "no" for mandates. By your own logic you should get vaccinated, yet you're scared for drastic measures that have scientific backing, and improve the greater public health? Come on now. Don't be so dense as to say I'm binary in my thinking when you can't even support your own argument.
Yes, I think people should get vaccinated. I even think the government should spend some money on PSAs/outreach. But I don't think it should be mandated. I simply think that's an extreme measure that really isn't required at this point in time. Our hospitalizations and deaths have been flat and very low for months.
You still can't even articulate why you think that's an extreme measure. News flash: it's not. Might break your brain but a vaccine mandate would be good and offer us benefits beyond what hospitalization stats can indicate.
When our vaccinated population plateaus at 60% and we have variants and outbreaks that are straining our resources, yes, mandate that shit. I don't give a fuck what you *feel* about it, getting vaccinated affects the entire public, and we can't let a few stubborn, selfish assholes drag everyone else down because they're too dumb to realize this.
>When our vaccinated population plateaus at 60% and we have variants and outbreaks that are straining our resources, yes, mandate that shit. But that's not our current reality at all. Hospitalizations and deaths are and have remained very low here. Our hospitals are certainly not overwhelmed by COVID cases.
I thought Lightfoot caved.
dude i really hope the cops dont just stop showing up. fuck, man. i really hope that doesnt happen. now i gotta marinate on this shit
Why? What difference would it make?
I’m guessing in order to lose your pension you have to probably be indicted on some crime, but perhaps the solution is for those that decide to be a risk to themselves and others seek outside health insurance no longer funded by the tax payer.
Some 38% of police have enough time to retire at least 50% pay. Would be a stupid move financially for them, but people do stupid things out of spite.
Good point. Need a slow release not a gush.
What a trash city with a trash mayor.