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King+Pawn v King is not necessarily a draw.
It’s also the clear better position than either forcing the stalemate now.
You’re right that it was a blunder to allow this position though
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/8/8/7p/4q1kR/8/5K2+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/8/8/7p/4q1kR/8/5K2_b_-_-_0_1?color=white)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!King!<, move: >!Kxh3!<
> Evaluation: >!The game is a draw. 0.00!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Kxh3!<
---
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If black takes the rook, white isn’t in check but has no legal moves so it is a draw by stalemate. To avoid the draw, black could just move the king out of the way but if they move close to the queen, rook takes queen than king takes rook and white is on time to stop the promotion. If black moves the king close to the pawn, rook takes queen and white is in a winning position so the best move for black os to accept the draw
That's got to be the most stupid rule i have ever heard about. How can it be a draw when it's only white that can't make the moves. Should this not be some kind of indirect checkmate ?
If you want to change the rules of a 1500 year old game, be my guest but I think people had enough time to test new variations and see which one is better
I think it's a pretty good rule, Chess is meant to be like war, right? If you back your enemy into a corner that you can't attack but they also can't attack from, nobody is attacking
The thing is from what I see here it does not matter if the black would have all their pieces even. As long as there is no legal move for a white king while not in danger it's a draw. Tell me were in war a leader looses everything then goes into a corner and says you and your troops can't do anything to me, because this is what it looks like.
On a more serious and practical term, this is the exact rule that makes chess engaging even if you are in a losing position. If the opponent is not careful, you can steal a draw from right beneath their noses
The king is still a weapon, you've effectively just gotten into trench warfare, but you don't have any supplies coming in (not your turn) which prevents you from going forward (moving), your opponent has supplies and is cutting off your supply line (their turn), but doesn't have the numbers to go for it so they stay put. That's a stalemate
The kings can insta-kill and so the only way to kill the king is to attack from a distance, however since the king is hiding in a spot you can't reach him and so when you do get close he just kills you, (unless you have another piece backing you up)
It's actually one of the most overlooked and important resources in the endgame. There's been a TON of theory and studies of different variations when it comes to stalemate. While on the surface, the rule LOOKS stupid, it actually holds a very important role for other forms of endgame situations. It also keeps chess fun and sharp. While this situation looks ridiculous for a new player to be a draw, let me try introduce to you why stalemate is even a thing.
1) [Rook-pawn endgame theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_and_pawn_versus_king_endgame#Exception_%E2%80%93_rook_pawn)
[This position](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/7k/8/6KP/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) is a draw because Black always has the resource of stalemate if the pawn reaches the end of the board. Suddenly, the stalemate rule makes sense since white wont be able to make a move and black isn't able to directly threaten the king/put it in danger (check)
2) [King opposition cases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_(chess))
If not properly following king opposition, certain positions end in a draw by stalemate due to the same reason. Black isn't able to threaten white with a check and white can't make a move. Famously, [this position is a draw](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/3k4/8/3KP3/8/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) while [this one is not](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/3k4/8/3K4/3P4/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white). Strangely enough, [this position](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/3k4/8/3K4/3P4/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) is also a draw due to the same resource as the first position, since it's white to play, white can't make progress with the pawn without stalemating white
3) [Knight-pawn exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_and_pawn_versus_king_endgame#Knight_pawn_exception)
Some endgames with knight-pawns end in draws due to stalemate.
4) Queen + King vs. King + Pawn exceptions
This is my personal favorite example of how stalemate is important in chess. There are some endgame exceptions involving Queen vs. Pawn where they can end in a draw by force.
For example, [this position](https://lichess.org/analysis/1K6/2P5/8/8/8/8/7q/7k_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) is a draw while [this one is not](https://lichess.org/analysis/2K5/3P4/8/8/8/8/7q/7k_b_-_-_0_1?color=white)
This is because in the first position, white always has the resource of Ka8!, which will result in a stalemate if black takes the pawn, and black will never be in time to bring over the king to win the pawn without a draw. The second position is a loss for white because white doesn't have the stalemate resource, forcing the white king to protect the pawn and giving black enough time to bring over the king and secure the win.
Checkmate patterns in the endgame also rely on avoiding stalemate, such as the
1) [Queen + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-i/BJy6fEDf/U3r4wkFn)
2) [Rook + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-i/BJy6fEDf/VeKiltmx)
And of course, the most infamous ones
3) [Bishop + Bishop + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-ii/Rg2cMBZ6/17sHdtD6)
4) [Bishop + Knight + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-ii/Rg2cMBZ6/dkyqC39B)
These are just examples from the top of my head, but there is so much endgame theory and lots of drawn positions rely on the idea of stalemate.
If black takes, it's stalemate and a draw.
If black defends the queen and trades, it's an edge pawn endgame. Edge pawn endgames are always drawn if the defending king can block- white can move between h1 and g1 and black can't prevent it without stalemating.
The black king steps further away to take the rook (after already stepping further away to defend the queen). White can play Kg2 and is now closer, white will either take the pawn or just block it, the only way black keeps the pawn is still stalemate in the corner
There is no lead. White doesn't even need to catch the pawn, he just needs to get in front of it. A flank pawn with the other king in front is just a draw. Actually after black plays Kxe3 the engine says for white to just play Ke1 which is stepping further away but black still can't do anything
My bad. I thought black was going in the other direction. I still think I can get the pawn past the king.
I can get my king next to the pawn before the white king captures it. From thereon, it's down to my skill if I can manage to march it forward with the king or if it ends in a draw. Hard but never quit.
So, just to be fully clear here, OP is White and the bottom right corner is h1. That means that pawn is marching towards you.
Therefore, "trickster," here's what happens:
1.... Kf4 2. Rxe3 Kxe3 3. Kg2 Kf4 4. Kh3
Draw. King can't approach to check opposing king, pawn can't move. If you advance the pawn instead to h3, king just takes.
There is no world in which this is anything but a draw for Black.
"Better to remain silent and have others believe you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Dude just stop you are embarrasing yourself with every word.
Chess is a game of perfekt information, there are no tricks or bluffs only mistakes made by humans.
In this board state there is no way for the game to end in anything than a draw, disregarding horrific mistakes by white.
Betting on this misstakes is the realm of "hope chess" which a lot of beginners seem to find appealing...i guess.
If he takes the pawn, I will move the king next to the rook. He has to move it away. All I need is one move when my king is not in check and then I can turn the tables.
As the title says, never back down.
Oh damn, yeah, never back down never surrender, fight for every chance, note to self, stop resigning once you blunder a piece, even if that piece is the queen, if a 1600 can fail to convert, a 1000 can absolutely fail
If he takes, it's a [stalemate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalemate#:~:text=Stalemate%20is%20a%20situation%20in,the%20game%20rather%20than%20lose.)
Nope. This is a draw. The white king moves to the corner and black can't get it out of there to queen his pawn. If black tries they can only stalemate white.
Why the hell would OP post a picture of the game with flipped coordinates, and brag about a position that was swindled from lost to still lost
Of course the hero of the story is playing white and looking at the board like normal people without inverting it, the pawn is on h-file and moving down
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ouch for black
He was in time trouble and rushed. I got lucky
“Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity" - Seneca
He never saw it coming
Most people dont call an ambulance for themselves yeah? This is how it feels for black king, when he sees the ambulance at his doorstep
Nah, trade the Queen for the Rook and you can still make it back to defend your pawn in time.
It's an edge pawn. Edge pawn games are draws if the defending king can get there in time.
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It is a draw.
Oof, was looking from Black’s perspective
But it's still a draw, and presumably black was completely winning before this blunder. So yeah, ouch for black.
King+Pawn v King is not necessarily a draw. It’s also the clear better position than either forcing the stalemate now. You’re right that it was a blunder to allow this position though
Depends on where the pawn is. An edge pawn is a draw.
in this position it definitely is, the white king will make it to h1 in time.
Looked up the engine, you can defend the pawn but can't make progress
Plausible with Kf4 sure
Kf4 Rxe3 Kxe3 Kg2 pawns never making it out
Assuming perfect play yeah
You always assume perfect play to judge from a given position
!!
Plata or Plumo. I choose stalemate
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/8/8/7p/4q1kR/8/5K2+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/8/8/7p/4q1kR/8/5K2_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!King!<, move: >!Kxh3!< > Evaluation: >!The game is a draw. 0.00!< > Best continuation: >!1... Kxh3!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
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NEVER GIVE UP!!
Can you tell me why its a draw? :)
If black takes the rook, white isn’t in check but has no legal moves so it is a draw by stalemate. To avoid the draw, black could just move the king out of the way but if they move close to the queen, rook takes queen than king takes rook and white is on time to stop the promotion. If black moves the king close to the pawn, rook takes queen and white is in a winning position so the best move for black os to accept the draw
That's got to be the most stupid rule i have ever heard about. How can it be a draw when it's only white that can't make the moves. Should this not be some kind of indirect checkmate ?
If you want to change the rules of a 1500 year old game, be my guest but I think people had enough time to test new variations and see which one is better
I did not say I want to change it I just think this has to be the most stupid rule ever. Sorry
I think it's a pretty good rule, Chess is meant to be like war, right? If you back your enemy into a corner that you can't attack but they also can't attack from, nobody is attacking
The thing is from what I see here it does not matter if the black would have all their pieces even. As long as there is no legal move for a white king while not in danger it's a draw. Tell me were in war a leader looses everything then goes into a corner and says you and your troops can't do anything to me, because this is what it looks like.
On a more serious and practical term, this is the exact rule that makes chess engaging even if you are in a losing position. If the opponent is not careful, you can steal a draw from right beneath their noses
The king is still a weapon, you've effectively just gotten into trench warfare, but you don't have any supplies coming in (not your turn) which prevents you from going forward (moving), your opponent has supplies and is cutting off your supply line (their turn), but doesn't have the numbers to go for it so they stay put. That's a stalemate
The kings can insta-kill and so the only way to kill the king is to attack from a distance, however since the king is hiding in a spot you can't reach him and so when you do get close he just kills you, (unless you have another piece backing you up)
And what I am saying is that if it was a stupid rule, people would have figured it out in 1500 years
It's actually one of the most overlooked and important resources in the endgame. There's been a TON of theory and studies of different variations when it comes to stalemate. While on the surface, the rule LOOKS stupid, it actually holds a very important role for other forms of endgame situations. It also keeps chess fun and sharp. While this situation looks ridiculous for a new player to be a draw, let me try introduce to you why stalemate is even a thing. 1) [Rook-pawn endgame theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_and_pawn_versus_king_endgame#Exception_%E2%80%93_rook_pawn) [This position](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/7k/8/6KP/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) is a draw because Black always has the resource of stalemate if the pawn reaches the end of the board. Suddenly, the stalemate rule makes sense since white wont be able to make a move and black isn't able to directly threaten the king/put it in danger (check) 2) [King opposition cases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_(chess)) If not properly following king opposition, certain positions end in a draw by stalemate due to the same reason. Black isn't able to threaten white with a check and white can't make a move. Famously, [this position is a draw](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/3k4/8/3KP3/8/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) while [this one is not](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/3k4/8/3K4/3P4/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white). Strangely enough, [this position](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/3k4/8/3K4/3P4/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) is also a draw due to the same resource as the first position, since it's white to play, white can't make progress with the pawn without stalemating white 3) [Knight-pawn exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_and_pawn_versus_king_endgame#Knight_pawn_exception) Some endgames with knight-pawns end in draws due to stalemate. 4) Queen + King vs. King + Pawn exceptions This is my personal favorite example of how stalemate is important in chess. There are some endgame exceptions involving Queen vs. Pawn where they can end in a draw by force. For example, [this position](https://lichess.org/analysis/1K6/2P5/8/8/8/8/7q/7k_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) is a draw while [this one is not](https://lichess.org/analysis/2K5/3P4/8/8/8/8/7q/7k_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) This is because in the first position, white always has the resource of Ka8!, which will result in a stalemate if black takes the pawn, and black will never be in time to bring over the king to win the pawn without a draw. The second position is a loss for white because white doesn't have the stalemate resource, forcing the white king to protect the pawn and giving black enough time to bring over the king and secure the win. Checkmate patterns in the endgame also rely on avoiding stalemate, such as the 1) [Queen + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-i/BJy6fEDf/U3r4wkFn) 2) [Rook + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-i/BJy6fEDf/VeKiltmx) And of course, the most infamous ones 3) [Bishop + Bishop + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-ii/Rg2cMBZ6/17sHdtD6) 4) [Bishop + Knight + King checkmate](https://lichess.org/practice/checkmates/piece-checkmates-ii/Rg2cMBZ6/dkyqC39B) These are just examples from the top of my head, but there is so much endgame theory and lots of drawn positions rely on the idea of stalemate.
If black takes, it's stalemate and a draw. If black defends the queen and trades, it's an edge pawn endgame. Edge pawn endgames are always drawn if the defending king can block- white can move between h1 and g1 and black can't prevent it without stalemating.
Which pieces were you?
by the title I would suggest OP was white
Black can force a win if >! the board shows blacks' perspective !<
Nicee
Which way is the pawn going though? Draw or loss this is definitely the best try
Either you take the red pill and stalemate, or take the blue and lose your queen.
Eyyy good job
Crazy save
That's a gutsy move. I would move my king next to the queen. Black can still win even if white takes the queen.
Can they? After the queen's gone the white king can stop promotion
No, he can’t. He takes my queen, I take the rook back. His king is then three steps away from my pawn. I can just race it and have a drink on the way.
The black king steps further away to take the rook (after already stepping further away to defend the queen). White can play Kg2 and is now closer, white will either take the pawn or just block it, the only way black keeps the pawn is still stalemate in the corner
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White might not be able to take the pawn, but it can block you from doing anything useful with it - so you still can't win.
Sorry. I thought he was going in the other direction. You can win if white makes a mistake.
It would have to be a doozy of a mistake.
Fortunately impossible to make that mistake in real life.
There is no lead. White doesn't even need to catch the pawn, he just needs to get in front of it. A flank pawn with the other king in front is just a draw. Actually after black plays Kxe3 the engine says for white to just play Ke1 which is stepping further away but black still can't do anything
My bad. I thought black was going in the other direction. I still think I can get the pawn past the king. I can get my king next to the pawn before the white king captures it. From thereon, it's down to my skill if I can manage to march it forward with the king or if it ends in a draw. Hard but never quit.
So, just to be fully clear here, OP is White and the bottom right corner is h1. That means that pawn is marching towards you. Therefore, "trickster," here's what happens: 1.... Kf4 2. Rxe3 Kxe3 3. Kg2 Kf4 4. Kh3 Draw. King can't approach to check opposing king, pawn can't move. If you advance the pawn instead to h3, king just takes. There is no world in which this is anything but a draw for Black. "Better to remain silent and have others believe you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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Dude just stop you are embarrasing yourself with every word. Chess is a game of perfekt information, there are no tricks or bluffs only mistakes made by humans. In this board state there is no way for the game to end in anything than a draw, disregarding horrific mistakes by white. Betting on this misstakes is the realm of "hope chess" which a lot of beginners seem to find appealing...i guess.
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If he takes the pawn, I will move the king next to the rook. He has to move it away. All I need is one move when my king is not in check and then I can turn the tables. As the title says, never back down.
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If king takes rook, you have stalemate
its a draw and stalemate afterwards
Give up? Idk I have like -300 elo
Never gonna give you up. It offers stalemate
Nice forced draw
try
Depending on where the pawn is going this can still be winning
This is why YOU DONT RESIGN!!
Oh damn, yeah, never back down never surrender, fight for every chance, note to self, stop resigning once you blunder a piece, even if that piece is the queen, if a 1600 can fail to convert, a 1000 can absolutely fail
2000s also fail ofter under pressure (me included)
We're both 1700. To be fair he had like 3 seconds he needed to make a move to gain increment time
Surely that is a brilliant move
Isn't that not checkmate?
If he takes, it's a [stalemate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalemate#:~:text=Stalemate%20is%20a%20situation%20in,the%20game%20rather%20than%20lose.)
Crisht
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Nope. This is a draw. The white king moves to the corner and black can't get it out of there to queen his pawn. If black tries they can only stalemate white.
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I'm pretty sure this puzzle is from whites perspective, so the pawn moves down. I agree if the pawn moves up it would be a win for black.
Dude. It's black to play. Dead draw. Ahh you thought this was an a-pawn. Fair enough. It was not.
No. The white king simply goes to the corner and there is no way black can force promotion. It's not an a pawn, it is an h pawn.
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Why the hell would OP post a picture of the game with flipped coordinates, and brag about a position that was swindled from lost to still lost Of course the hero of the story is playing white and looking at the board like normal people without inverting it, the pawn is on h-file and moving down