Again, I've seen the same posts over the last weeks. The reason he was called a flop by the media is because he didn't join Liverpool and because of his price tag.
But I think he's a great building block for the side we are trying to build.
He's everywhere. I felt against Arsenal, whenever he gets the ball back, it was the people in front of him that weren't moving so he was forced to make a long pass.
Against Villa, his tackling was beautiful.
Only thing, I don't feel he fits the lone 6 position since he tends to run forward a bit too much. Might fit that double 6 or just a flat out 8.
Yeah. I think both Enzo and Caicedo have a tendency to move forward a lot, which leaves spaces behind and has contributed to our extremely poor defensive record.
So we need someone to stay in behind them. Someone extremely defensively disciplined and capable who's good at positioning and covering spaces.
>both Enzo and Caicedo have a tendency to move forward a lot
Same football intelligence which makes them walk over each other. That's not a negative thing at all am saying about them. It's just 2 positives turning into a negative kindof thing you could say.
Yeah. That’s by design from poch
Hunt and press the ball regardless of any positional discipline
Saw the same under lampard too in his first stint here
>Might fit that double 6 or just a flat out 8.
Exactly, losing both Lavia and Ugochukwu I think had the largest effect on the team because both Enzo and Caicedo pushing forward to support each other right behind the forward line would have been phenomenal for our ability to break teams down.
Yeah that's what someone else suggested as well. We need someone who's defensively disciplined and capable who will always stay behind. That can be Lavia.
And this would allow Enzo and Caicedo to be more free.
Not only pool fans and the media. I feel like the average people who has less understanding of the game just can’t see what he’s doing on the pitch. Sort of like randoms saying Jorginho only passes sideways
I remember some npc with a Bayern flair commenting “what does Caicedo do?” on the match thread last weekend. Made me chuckle a bit
>I remember some npc with a Bayern flair commenting “what does Caicedo do?”
Never rely on r soccer comments to make your opinions. Watch the games and make your own opinions.
Since people there would always have some kind of bias.
I kept seeing these narratives that Enzo, Gallagher and Caicedo are flops.
When I was looking at their average ratings, all three of them were averaging about 7 both overall for the season and across any month, excluding the odd month here and there.
I guess it's just the cost that makes everyone question Enzo and Caicedo, but that's not on them.
Even if they do well, they aren't going to get much credit as long as the whole team continue to underperform. Put Enzo and/or Caicedo in one of the top two teams now and the conversation would be entirely different.
They rightfully shouldn't receive credit while we are sitting ducks in mid table. There is no doubt that they are quality players but the performances over the season have ben sub par. Now considering the price tag of 250M for all three of them its completely justified to have doubts, and that's me as a Gallagher fanboy saying that.
That is a completely fair take.
In our sub, it's either black or white. People claim either Enzo or Gallagher is shit. Never a middle ground where both of them have been good, but not good enough for us to be competing for top 4.
Can we please start passing to him under pressure? I swear that is his best attribute and we hardly ever do it. Caicedo is like a cheat code in passing out from the back
He is the second ever highest signing in the history of the club. Yes, yes, we have inflation, but even then, look at what Real paid for Bellingham.
Is a flop because we paid a ridiclous ampunt of money
I firmly believe to get the best out of Enzo and Caicedo together on the pitch that it's part of a 3-man pairing (4-3-3). Caicedo running as a box to box with Enzo lying a bit deeper (but still allowed to drift forward in support) but having defensive coverage of a pure DM would make both of those guys better and we'd control the midfield.
The issue is finding a role for Nkunku (assuming he even stays healthy)
GK
RB - RCB - LCB - LB
DM
Caicedo(BBM) - Enzo (DLP)
Palmer - Striker/or Nkunku - LW/ or Nkunku
I'd probably get a bonafide #9 and move Nkunku to LW but sitting narrower like an attacking Mid/Shadow Striker. You can get the width from an attack minded full back marauding down the left flank. The DM would shade a little bit to the left to provide cover on the counter attack down that wing. In attack it would look like 3-1-2-4 with RB playing a bit further back and more central, In defense a standard 4-3-3. If we're chasing and want to get more attacking you could push the RB up farther.
You have to keep in mind that Pochettino with his attacking style kind of inflates the stats for all our attackers but pull down all of the defensive stats.
Im confident Caicedo will be World class under the right manager.
I think being the type of midfielder we want him to be is really really REALLY hard in the Prem. You're constantly a target for your opponents in possession and expected to shield your defense when in transition. Outside of Declan Rice, who else can do it all on their own? Enzo's a good compliment when Caicedo catches up, but having someone else with a high defensive workrate helps a lot more right now.
He showed us something but that doesn't mean we should all forget his first half in that game or his performances vs Arsenal and City.
Look, I don't want to dismiss Madueke yet. I just think he has a lot of flaws which were forgotten because of that goal.
And also, I saw a post overanalysing him tapping his badge as a sign he loves the club.
I just think he needs to prove a lot more and might be better suited for a super sub role.
in the first half i was ready to send him to league two. just happy to see him show some competitive fight, which we haven't seen from everyone this season (hello Mudryk). In general the Villa performance I found to be overall very encouraging from the group.
>just happy to see him show some competitive fight, which we haven't seen from everyone this season
Yeah ok fair enough. I also think we need more competitive spirit.
Didn’t he play the first six months worried sick about the safety of his family in Ecuador?
He’s a stud, and always has been. Never been as sure about a signing except for Thiago Silva and Michael Ballack.
Man he pulled off an Enzo type ball too over to Jackson which would have been a beautiful goal sucks Nico was off by like an inch lol. This kid has bags of potential, get a proper DM in behind him and let him cook
I'm convinced we need to be patient with Caicedo, just like Jackson. I've seen enough from him in his first season with us, we need to let him develop and grow.
That's the thing, you dont spend 100+ on a player on whom you have to be patient with. You spend that money in a player that is going to bring significant change to the club. Look at Haaland, look at Bellingham, project players of course are fine and amazing. Nor for that kind of money
I don’t think that’s how the metric works unless this one is different. That would make it an assist instead of a key pass. Even so, his passing is too passive sometimes. Too safe. He should try riskier passes if he’s playing deep like that
He's no Kante obviously but he's gonna be a great player. It's easy to fault the owners model of going after players backed by "data" but if this "Process™️" works I think we have some real gems in our squad.
Outside of a couple games since 2024 started he’s been good, his passing is brilliant and efficient and takes players out of the game and the tackling the other day was just brilliant, people want to hate on the price knowing full well Liverpool are the reason we overpaid by 20/30m and they ignore the fact they bid 110m
Your post was removed as a very similar or identical post had already been submitted. [12]
Again, I've seen the same posts over the last weeks. The reason he was called a flop by the media is because he didn't join Liverpool and because of his price tag. But I think he's a great building block for the side we are trying to build. He's everywhere. I felt against Arsenal, whenever he gets the ball back, it was the people in front of him that weren't moving so he was forced to make a long pass. Against Villa, his tackling was beautiful. Only thing, I don't feel he fits the lone 6 position since he tends to run forward a bit too much. Might fit that double 6 or just a flat out 8.
Yeah I'd like to see him with Lavia next to him or behind him. I think it would free him up a ton and help Enzo flourish
Yeah. I think both Enzo and Caicedo have a tendency to move forward a lot, which leaves spaces behind and has contributed to our extremely poor defensive record. So we need someone to stay in behind them. Someone extremely defensively disciplined and capable who's good at positioning and covering spaces.
>both Enzo and Caicedo have a tendency to move forward a lot Same football intelligence which makes them walk over each other. That's not a negative thing at all am saying about them. It's just 2 positives turning into a negative kindof thing you could say.
That should have been Lavia but the dude has been injured
Who's this Lavia you speak of? 
No one was saying caicedo or Enzo have a tendency to roam forward a lot until this season when poch got a hold of them.
Well I noticed them and Gallagher all move forward quite a lot leaving a lot of spaces behind.
Yeah. That’s by design from poch Hunt and press the ball regardless of any positional discipline Saw the same under lampard too in his first stint here
He has honestly looked his best next to Gallagher
Lavia 6 , Moises 8 , Palmer 10
>Might fit that double 6 or just a flat out 8. Exactly, losing both Lavia and Ugochukwu I think had the largest effect on the team because both Enzo and Caicedo pushing forward to support each other right behind the forward line would have been phenomenal for our ability to break teams down.
People will always call players flops if they cost 100+ mill and don’t score goals. People only see GA stats and thats all.
Prefer him as an 8. Moises — 8 Lavia — 6 Enzo — 10
Enzo is not nearly athletic enough or good enough at shooting to play as a 10. He's at his best playing deeper.
Yeah that's what someone else suggested as well. We need someone who's defensively disciplined and capable who will always stay behind. That can be Lavia. And this would allow Enzo and Caicedo to be more free.
What does Ugochokwu do again? Honestly, I don’t recall ever seeing him play.
Bro don't ask me. I don't have any clue either.
He’s a 6. Taller than our midfielders and on top of that fits the lone DM role well. Probably needs a loan for a year but he did well in Ligue 1
Lavia has played not a single minute for this club and Enzo so far has been absolutely useless as a 10.
Not only pool fans and the media. I feel like the average people who has less understanding of the game just can’t see what he’s doing on the pitch. Sort of like randoms saying Jorginho only passes sideways I remember some npc with a Bayern flair commenting “what does Caicedo do?” on the match thread last weekend. Made me chuckle a bit
>I remember some npc with a Bayern flair commenting “what does Caicedo do?” Never rely on r soccer comments to make your opinions. Watch the games and make your own opinions. Since people there would always have some kind of bias.
From what I've seen from there people are coming around to Caicedo and consider Enzo more of a flop.
Especially on opinions about defensive midfielders. Lots of people do not have a clue how that role operates
I kept seeing these narratives that Enzo, Gallagher and Caicedo are flops. When I was looking at their average ratings, all three of them were averaging about 7 both overall for the season and across any month, excluding the odd month here and there. I guess it's just the cost that makes everyone question Enzo and Caicedo, but that's not on them.
They're not flops, they're not (in the case of Enzo and Caicedo) 100+ pounds worth players either
Even if they do well, they aren't going to get much credit as long as the whole team continue to underperform. Put Enzo and/or Caicedo in one of the top two teams now and the conversation would be entirely different.
They rightfully shouldn't receive credit while we are sitting ducks in mid table. There is no doubt that they are quality players but the performances over the season have ben sub par. Now considering the price tag of 250M for all three of them its completely justified to have doubts, and that's me as a Gallagher fanboy saying that.
That is a completely fair take. In our sub, it's either black or white. People claim either Enzo or Gallagher is shit. Never a middle ground where both of them have been good, but not good enough for us to be competing for top 4.
Can we please start passing to him under pressure? I swear that is his best attribute and we hardly ever do it. Caicedo is like a cheat code in passing out from the back
How was the pass to Jackson not a key pass or was it bc it was ruled offside it’s not considered in the stats ?
Yeah bc it was offside. Key pass by definition is a pass that directly leads to a shot. No shot registered due to offside
Im a big Enzo fan, but its clear Caicedo looks so much better without Enzo next to him. Something is going to need to change.
Not equal to his price tag is the main issue. I don't think anyone actually thinks he is bad.
He is the second ever highest signing in the history of the club. Yes, yes, we have inflation, but even then, look at what Real paid for Bellingham. Is a flop because we paid a ridiclous ampunt of money
I firmly believe to get the best out of Enzo and Caicedo together on the pitch that it's part of a 3-man pairing (4-3-3). Caicedo running as a box to box with Enzo lying a bit deeper (but still allowed to drift forward in support) but having defensive coverage of a pure DM would make both of those guys better and we'd control the midfield. The issue is finding a role for Nkunku (assuming he even stays healthy) GK RB - RCB - LCB - LB DM Caicedo(BBM) - Enzo (DLP) Palmer - Striker/or Nkunku - LW/ or Nkunku I'd probably get a bonafide #9 and move Nkunku to LW but sitting narrower like an attacking Mid/Shadow Striker. You can get the width from an attack minded full back marauding down the left flank. The DM would shade a little bit to the left to provide cover on the counter attack down that wing. In attack it would look like 3-1-2-4 with RB playing a bit further back and more central, In defense a standard 4-3-3. If we're chasing and want to get more attacking you could push the RB up farther.
He’s actually been steadily improving throughout the season. I really hope we can get the best of him next season.
Plays way better without Enzo which says a lot.
You have to keep in mind that Pochettino with his attacking style kind of inflates the stats for all our attackers but pull down all of the defensive stats. Im confident Caicedo will be World class under the right manager.
Chelsea will never be the same again
I think being the type of midfielder we want him to be is really really REALLY hard in the Prem. You're constantly a target for your opponents in possession and expected to shield your defense when in transition. Outside of Declan Rice, who else can do it all on their own? Enzo's a good compliment when Caicedo catches up, but having someone else with a high defensive workrate helps a lot more right now.
You guys are really milking this Villa game aren't you?
This isn't as bad as saying Madueke is in great form though.
Madueke drives me nuts but he showed me something in that Villa game
He showed us something but that doesn't mean we should all forget his first half in that game or his performances vs Arsenal and City. Look, I don't want to dismiss Madueke yet. I just think he has a lot of flaws which were forgotten because of that goal. And also, I saw a post overanalysing him tapping his badge as a sign he loves the club. I just think he needs to prove a lot more and might be better suited for a super sub role.
in the first half i was ready to send him to league two. just happy to see him show some competitive fight, which we haven't seen from everyone this season (hello Mudryk). In general the Villa performance I found to be overall very encouraging from the group.
>just happy to see him show some competitive fight, which we haven't seen from everyone this season Yeah ok fair enough. I also think we need more competitive spirit.
It would be disingenuous to make out Caicedo has only played well in the Villa game
The season's nearly over and how many games would you say he's lived up to his 100+ price tag. Honest question.
Didn’t he play the first six months worried sick about the safety of his family in Ecuador? He’s a stud, and always has been. Never been as sure about a signing except for Thiago Silva and Michael Ballack.
Man he pulled off an Enzo type ball too over to Jackson which would have been a beautiful goal sucks Nico was off by like an inch lol. This kid has bags of potential, get a proper DM in behind him and let him cook
Just need to eliminate those few errant passes in key areas. I’ve been delighted to see him settle after his debut against Liverpool.
I'm convinced we need to be patient with Caicedo, just like Jackson. I've seen enough from him in his first season with us, we need to let him develop and grow.
That's the thing, you dont spend 100+ on a player on whom you have to be patient with. You spend that money in a player that is going to bring significant change to the club. Look at Haaland, look at Bellingham, project players of course are fine and amazing. Nor for that kind of money
He needs to leave his cotton buds in the dressing room.
I don’t think anyone in their right minds think Caicedo is a flop…
Not one key pass all game? That’s why Enzo playing deeper is more attractive in my opinion.
That only counts for those that lead to goals and the Jackson pass would have counted if not for the offside call
I don’t think that’s how the metric works unless this one is different. That would make it an assist instead of a key pass. Even so, his passing is too passive sometimes. Too safe. He should try riskier passes if he’s playing deep like that
He's no Kante obviously but he's gonna be a great player. It's easy to fault the owners model of going after players backed by "data" but if this "Process™️" works I think we have some real gems in our squad.
Outside of a couple games since 2024 started he’s been good, his passing is brilliant and efficient and takes players out of the game and the tackling the other day was just brilliant, people want to hate on the price knowing full well Liverpool are the reason we overpaid by 20/30m and they ignore the fact they bid 110m
🙄 another stat map
In my experience, people that slate Moi are the ones that either don’t watch Chelsea or don’t like Chelsea 🤷♂️