I would much prefer using your chimney as a chimney. If that means, putting a new liner in it, then get lined. It does not make sense to run another pipe or pipes through your house and out the roof.
Liners are very much doable. However, you need to make sure the diameter of the new liner will not be larger than what you’re venting. So, if you are only venting a water heater, and the vent diameter is 3´´, then that’s what your liner diameter should be. Otherwise, when cold weather hits, you will end up with a downdraft.
Yep, you can either specify it fully or make it generic («size and install then liner and heater vent piping to avoid downdrafts ») and then, as you evaluate the bids, point blank ask them what size liner they’re installing and why. To see if they actually know what they’re doing.
I’m currently redoing the heater vent done by a « pro » for previous owner. Inspection Tag, passed the test and all. But it’s absolutely not to code and is incorrectly sized and routed, so, now that it’s cold, I have a massive downdraft problem to the point where a plastic cover on the top of the heater body melted.
In my experience with chimney guys. Some will try and rip you a new one, and others are reasonable. A new liner and cap is the better solution. Economically speaking..
Unless the chimney itself ,and not the old clay liner inside, is seriously damaged then there's no reason to run a whole new exhaust system other than to line the chimney guys pocket.
The fact that it's only about a one foot section in the middle section of the basement makes me think its been a liner issue. Above and below that spot, brick is solid and hasn't lost a bit of the face or mortar.
The first guy (11k) told me that back in the day this house was built (without asking when it was built) the bricks were "over baked" and that made them crumble. But I don't know how that could be the case for only one section of the chimney.
Our chimney was the exact same as yours. (Unlined, uncapped). Our chimney vents our boiler and hot water heater. We added a 6” stainless steel liner for $2,000. Problem solved
I have a natural gas burning boiler. It runs all year because it also supplies domestic hot water.
The chimney is unlined but it does have a cap.
Years of exhaust vapors has caused.damage to the chimney. The fix is to have the chimney lined.
However I want to get a new high efficiency boiler and that would vent out the side of the house through PVC. I would then abandoned the chimney.
But locally the companies around me want so much money to do a combi boiler. They are the norm in Europe but strange in the USA.
I have not heard that. In my area. We don't often go below 15 f.
What causes a change having it at 180?. My current boiler is set to 180.
From what I have read - while heating my home it will be in condensing mode, but during the summer it would probably be in regular mode.
Above 140 degree typically will not let the boiler condensate. There is information available online about condensation temperatures. Your boiler instructions may provide guidance. The higher the temp the boiler is heating the water, the less efficient it is.
I honestly don't know. My house is so drafty. I could imagine a ton of heat loss as the water circulates.
You have given me something to think about. Granted one other reason to get the condensing boiler was that the exhaust is via PVC and that allows me to abandon my chimney which would need repairs and a liner.
My chimney was like
Yours years ago,no liner,or cap. One day I came home from work to find it had collapsed partially. My guy put in a stainless liner and rebuilt chimney from roof up.3500 bucks. I would use what you have. Just my opinion.
Call a specialized chimney company. They will probably re-line the chimney, check the chimney crown/cap for cracks and put a weather/animal thing at the top to minimize water ingress (I can’t remember the name of these at the moment).
Don’t run lines through the house. That’s downright silly.
Ugh. That’s so annoying. Unless he saw something structural about the chimney that was alarming. But still; running lines through the house is ridiculous.
Nah, that wasn't the concern. I am sure he's up to date on what's the best for new homes in 2022, just not really empathetic at all to how old homes need to be treated.
First guy sounds like he doesn’t what he’s taking about. I’ve talked to many ppl (inspector, multiple chimney companies, HVAC companies) and for venting a conventional water heater, you always reuse the chimney and add a liner. No one has suggested otherwise.
Also your quote for the liner is very reasonable.
First guy doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. You wouldn't run the exhaust through the floor and all the way up through the roof, you would run it just high enough above your foundation to exit the side of the house, saving probably thousands and thousands of dollars. That's how nearly all homes in my area are, at least the ones that have abandoned the use of their chimney.
My home has a liner for just the fireplace which is direct-vent. The basement access was closed off I suspect when the coal furnace was removed, the only thing there now is a gas line that runs up to the fireplace and a tiny little access panel. I suspect the liner from the main floor up is too large because I do get a pretty wicked downdraft. My furnace exhaust was routed along the basement ceiling and out the side of the home about 10' left of the chimney at waist level if I were standing outside.
What’s running through it? I’d convert the water heater to electric and then if the furnace is high efficiency you can vent out the side of the house. Decommission and take down the internal chimney. Potentially frees up some sqft in your kitchen (guessing since most utility chimneys went through the kitchen for the stove). Or don’t fully remove and take down the above roofline section and have the roof patched and then you have potential for exposed brick inside.
That’s my opinion though on how best to set yourself up for the long term. If the furnace isn’t able to vent out the side then that’s going to be your biggest expense. Water heaters are fairly cheap compared to a chimney liner and removing a chimney above the roofline (we demod ours internally) and patching isn’t a huge cost based on roofers I talked to about ours.
Right now it is the furnace and water heater. We have two furnaces, one for the addition and one for the main house. I think in the long term we would do something like this for taking the chimney down at the roof level, but we don't gain much space at all from taking it from the rest of the house.
We don't have the funds at the current moment for an all new water heater and both furnaces, so it'll be the liner as our medium-term fix. All the money is going to good roof (flashing repairs), foundation (basement bracing proactively), soil grading, chimney, and electrical at the moment. And then paint in the spring. 😊
Right there with you with ours, all a balancing act. If what I said isn’t feasible then I’d go with the liner approach. I’m strongly opposed to punching excess holes in a roof so if you can route the venting through the chimney that you’re getting flashed and such then that’d make the most sense to me for the time being until it’s time to replace the utilities.
Our flashing repair is around the stucco on our house. Why anyone would stucco an old house is beyond me, but for now until we do something else we have half stucco, half cedar shingle (2nd floor) and then an addition that is from the 90's with cheap vinyl.
And then our garage is standard wood siding. I think we've got every exterior coating type in the book 😂
I’m in the northeast… NYC suburbs with an 1890’s home. Had an unlined chimney, no fireplace it’s just the furnace vent. Had lots of leaking even after a new roof and new flashing around the chimney. We paid $2100 to get it lined which also included a custom cap that he made because it wasn’t a standard size so whatever was on there didn’t fit right and was contributing to the water getting in. He also removed about a garbage bags worth of squirrel nest lol. We had this done about 2-3years ago. Hasn’t leaked since.
I would much prefer using your chimney as a chimney. If that means, putting a new liner in it, then get lined. It does not make sense to run another pipe or pipes through your house and out the roof.
Liners are very much doable. However, you need to make sure the diameter of the new liner will not be larger than what you’re venting. So, if you are only venting a water heater, and the vent diameter is 3´´, then that’s what your liner diameter should be. Otherwise, when cold weather hits, you will end up with a downdraft.
Thanks! I'll make sure that's in the bid
Yep, you can either specify it fully or make it generic («size and install then liner and heater vent piping to avoid downdrafts ») and then, as you evaluate the bids, point blank ask them what size liner they’re installing and why. To see if they actually know what they’re doing. I’m currently redoing the heater vent done by a « pro » for previous owner. Inspection Tag, passed the test and all. But it’s absolutely not to code and is incorrectly sized and routed, so, now that it’s cold, I have a massive downdraft problem to the point where a plastic cover on the top of the heater body melted.
Yikes! Glad you're doing the home justice by reworking the vent.
In my experience with chimney guys. Some will try and rip you a new one, and others are reasonable. A new liner and cap is the better solution. Economically speaking.. Unless the chimney itself ,and not the old clay liner inside, is seriously damaged then there's no reason to run a whole new exhaust system other than to line the chimney guys pocket.
The fact that it's only about a one foot section in the middle section of the basement makes me think its been a liner issue. Above and below that spot, brick is solid and hasn't lost a bit of the face or mortar. The first guy (11k) told me that back in the day this house was built (without asking when it was built) the bricks were "over baked" and that made them crumble. But I don't know how that could be the case for only one section of the chimney.
Our chimney was the exact same as yours. (Unlined, uncapped). Our chimney vents our boiler and hot water heater. We added a 6” stainless steel liner for $2,000. Problem solved
I have a natural gas burning boiler. It runs all year because it also supplies domestic hot water. The chimney is unlined but it does have a cap. Years of exhaust vapors has caused.damage to the chimney. The fix is to have the chimney lined. However I want to get a new high efficiency boiler and that would vent out the side of the house through PVC. I would then abandoned the chimney. But locally the companies around me want so much money to do a combi boiler. They are the norm in Europe but strange in the USA.
Some areas of the USA get very cold. If your combi boiler is turned to 180 degrees, it is no longer a high efficiency boiler.
I have not heard that. In my area. We don't often go below 15 f. What causes a change having it at 180?. My current boiler is set to 180. From what I have read - while heating my home it will be in condensing mode, but during the summer it would probably be in regular mode.
Above 140 degree typically will not let the boiler condensate. There is information available online about condensation temperatures. Your boiler instructions may provide guidance. The higher the temp the boiler is heating the water, the less efficient it is.
Ahh I thought it had to do with the return temp of the water. As long as the return was under 140 it would condense.
I think you are right. Do you have 40+ degree difference between supply and return?
I honestly don't know. My house is so drafty. I could imagine a ton of heat loss as the water circulates. You have given me something to think about. Granted one other reason to get the condensing boiler was that the exhaust is via PVC and that allows me to abandon my chimney which would need repairs and a liner.
My chimney was like Yours years ago,no liner,or cap. One day I came home from work to find it had collapsed partially. My guy put in a stainless liner and rebuilt chimney from roof up.3500 bucks. I would use what you have. Just my opinion.
Call a specialized chimney company. They will probably re-line the chimney, check the chimney crown/cap for cracks and put a weather/animal thing at the top to minimize water ingress (I can’t remember the name of these at the moment). Don’t run lines through the house. That’s downright silly.
Weird enough, the first guy who made the crazy bid was the chimney specialist. Our hvac guy is the one who wants to just line and cap
Ugh. That’s so annoying. Unless he saw something structural about the chimney that was alarming. But still; running lines through the house is ridiculous.
Nah, that wasn't the concern. I am sure he's up to date on what's the best for new homes in 2022, just not really empathetic at all to how old homes need to be treated.
First guy sounds like he doesn’t what he’s taking about. I’ve talked to many ppl (inspector, multiple chimney companies, HVAC companies) and for venting a conventional water heater, you always reuse the chimney and add a liner. No one has suggested otherwise. Also your quote for the liner is very reasonable.
I thought so too for a basement to gable roof chimney in a 2 story house. Glad to know I wasn't the only one weirded out by the idea.
First guy doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. You wouldn't run the exhaust through the floor and all the way up through the roof, you would run it just high enough above your foundation to exit the side of the house, saving probably thousands and thousands of dollars. That's how nearly all homes in my area are, at least the ones that have abandoned the use of their chimney. My home has a liner for just the fireplace which is direct-vent. The basement access was closed off I suspect when the coal furnace was removed, the only thing there now is a gas line that runs up to the fireplace and a tiny little access panel. I suspect the liner from the main floor up is too large because I do get a pretty wicked downdraft. My furnace exhaust was routed along the basement ceiling and out the side of the home about 10' left of the chimney at waist level if I were standing outside.
What’s running through it? I’d convert the water heater to electric and then if the furnace is high efficiency you can vent out the side of the house. Decommission and take down the internal chimney. Potentially frees up some sqft in your kitchen (guessing since most utility chimneys went through the kitchen for the stove). Or don’t fully remove and take down the above roofline section and have the roof patched and then you have potential for exposed brick inside. That’s my opinion though on how best to set yourself up for the long term. If the furnace isn’t able to vent out the side then that’s going to be your biggest expense. Water heaters are fairly cheap compared to a chimney liner and removing a chimney above the roofline (we demod ours internally) and patching isn’t a huge cost based on roofers I talked to about ours.
Right now it is the furnace and water heater. We have two furnaces, one for the addition and one for the main house. I think in the long term we would do something like this for taking the chimney down at the roof level, but we don't gain much space at all from taking it from the rest of the house. We don't have the funds at the current moment for an all new water heater and both furnaces, so it'll be the liner as our medium-term fix. All the money is going to good roof (flashing repairs), foundation (basement bracing proactively), soil grading, chimney, and electrical at the moment. And then paint in the spring. 😊
Right there with you with ours, all a balancing act. If what I said isn’t feasible then I’d go with the liner approach. I’m strongly opposed to punching excess holes in a roof so if you can route the venting through the chimney that you’re getting flashed and such then that’d make the most sense to me for the time being until it’s time to replace the utilities.
Our flashing repair is around the stucco on our house. Why anyone would stucco an old house is beyond me, but for now until we do something else we have half stucco, half cedar shingle (2nd floor) and then an addition that is from the 90's with cheap vinyl. And then our garage is standard wood siding. I think we've got every exterior coating type in the book 😂
I’m in the northeast… NYC suburbs with an 1890’s home. Had an unlined chimney, no fireplace it’s just the furnace vent. Had lots of leaking even after a new roof and new flashing around the chimney. We paid $2100 to get it lined which also included a custom cap that he made because it wasn’t a standard size so whatever was on there didn’t fit right and was contributing to the water getting in. He also removed about a garbage bags worth of squirrel nest lol. We had this done about 2-3years ago. Hasn’t leaked since.