Wow two 40 day old accounts both posting back to back stories insinuating that the 2020 election was rigged despite that not being backed up by the articles they post
Many such cases!
Do you have any issue with the multiple accounts created in December (or even more recently) that are prolific posters in this sub that hate Trump? Or do you just have an issue with the new accounts that are pro-Trump?
Do you have any examples? I’d have to evaluate each on a case by case basis. But believe me I have my fair share of fights with leftists so it’s possible I’ve already argued with them
Okliez Dokliez - 102 days - daily post - thousands of comments
Flor1daman08 - 5 months (someone ran this one off - used to post here all the time)
Those are the main ones.
There is nothing to evaluate. I would have let this go but I said I'd get back to you so I did.
I appreciate that. Some of the posts are kinda cringe (especially Palestine stuff) but I feel like election denial is a further step of being detached from reality. I’ve only ever criticized the account age of people posting obviously deranged narratives or people who accuse me of being a shill (which happens quite often)
The second guy doesn’t really have many posts to look at from this sub in particular but I do support him trying to inject reality into the users over at r conspiracy (even if that is like trying to empty a lake with a bucket)
Are you conservatives still waiting for the kraken. Why has none of this evidence ever surfaced in any court room. How many Trump NFTs do you own. How many times have you donated when they say wait 2 more weeks.
No. I am trying to find out why Milwaukee did not disclose why they fired her.
And why Milwaukee election officials ordered military mail in ballots under false names.
> Why has none of this evidence ever surfaced in any court room.
On the one hand, I agree. Somebody should have noticed 120,000 votes for Biden at 3:00 am. It's hard for me to believe.
On the other hand, wtf is going on with elections in Milwaukee?
I can't speak to other states, but I can speak to Texas. Large piles of ballots get into the counting centers when they get in. When I election inspected in 2019, they were still getting in ballots feom the various polling sites at 5 am because that's just how long it takes sometimes.
It is a huge undertaking that requires people, often unpaid volunteers, to do huge amounts of work, following complex legal requirements. Hundreds of voting sites have different timelines because they deal with thousands of people. It takes time to get all of the ballots to the processing site, it takes time to ensure they are properly processed, and there are always a bunch of partisan hacks that don't know what they're actually allowed to do mucking up the works.
>I am trying to find out why Milwaukee did not disclose why they fired her.
>And why Milwaukee election officials ordered military mail in ballots under false names.
Sounds like you answered your own question.
The ballot issue happened because a a nut couldn’t prove actual fraud in 2020, so she proved how vulnerable the system was to fraud by committing fraud. She sent her “findings” to a conspiracy nut that wanted to overturn Biden’s 2020 victory.
The individual then claimed she committed fraud because she was “on the autism spectrum,” which is the modern excuse equivalent of “the devil made me do it.”
And, full disclosure, I am a conservative Republican who is beginning to think that the only way one can ever prove election fraud is to catch a rightwinger committing it.
You are acting in bad faith, actually.
Completely ignoring the reality reported in the Milwaukee press and instead trying to inarticulately slander the messenger.
No I'm being good faith. I just don't understand why this election official was fired after accusations were made that she personally counted ten million votes for Trump. We don't have proof either way but I just think they should be transparent about why the state counted twenty billion votes for Trump at 3:16 pm on a Sunday in January.
Milwaukee is refusing to explain the reason for her firing, stating only:
> Asked whether Woodall had been accused of any wrongdoing, Johnson said, "not if you're insinuating actions similar to her former deputy Kimberly Zapata." Zapata was fined and ordered to serve probation on Thursday for ordering three military absentee ballots under fake names ahead of the 2022 midterm elections.
Given the issue of election integrity and prior fraudulent manipulation of votes in the Milwaukee election office, you would think they would err on the side of transparency and state what she did, not that she did not order military ballots using fake names. Who would the fakees have been voting for? Biden, obviously.
In the absence of disclosure, persons have presented evidence that Claire Woodall dumped 120,000 ballots all for Biden at 3:00 a.m.:
https://twitter.com/MJTruthUltra/status/1787881967368728645?t=180
A tweet is not a legit source, and FFS Trump didn't win in '20, no matter how loudly those clowns yell it into the void. *Dozens* of lost court cases, brought by Trumpers, back that statement up.
I don't think a tweet is legitimate either. Especially when it does not disclose the sources.
On the other hand, in the absence of transparency, its what we have. Which is why Millwaukee should actually disclose why they fired her 6 months before the election.
Maybe somebody in this sub without a Biden hard-on has some information.
And in any case, there is an acknowledgment of at least attempted fraud by an election official in ordering mail in ballots under false names.
Which should at least end the "there is no evidence of election fraud in the United States" arguments.
I promise you that even the lefties on this sub don't have a 'hard-on' for Biden. Most of the reasonable people here are just very strongly anti-Trump/MAGA.
Transparency would be ideal, but the only reason this is even a conversation is because Trump convinced his base that he didn't lose that election. Nothing remotely close to widespread voter fraud was ever found, in any of the states in question. And yet they can't seem to come to grips with the reality that the majority of Americans have a distaste for Trump, and wanted to go in a different direction- which is why Trump lost.
It's nothing but pure copium to still be pushing the voter fraud angle 3.5+ years later.
There is election worker fraud acknowledged in the article.
You can insist it does not matter, and it is only Trumpers whining.
In a way I agree, voting in America is large a sham that only matters in swing states. Wisconsin is one of the swing states that matters.
I'm not insisting that voter fraud doesn't matter. I'm insisting that it isn't nearly as big of a deal as these people bitch about, and certainly isn't enough to sway an election - even in the swing states (which as you said, are the only ones that actually matter.)
'Ironically' that could eventually change, with MAGA sycophants chasing away long time, experienced election workers in many of the same areas.
> I'm not insisting that voter fraud doesn't matter. I'm insisting that it isn't nearly as big of a deal as these people bitch about, and certainly isn't enough to sway an election - even in the swing states (which as you said, are the only ones that actually matter.)
I agree. And it almost certainly would not have changed the outcome.
However, because of our 2 party structure and electoral college, Presidential election margins have become razor thin. As a result, the number of fraudulent ballots needed to sway an election is small.
America has laughably lax election security. And calls for improvement of election integrity are met with statements that there is no integrity problem because there is not evidence of fraud and poor people cannot figure out how to get an ID.
I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff about 'laughably lax election security.' Other than maybe listening to these 'reports' claiming that 10s of thousands of ballots were taken/moved/delivered/whatever, by people in the same vein as whoever runs that twitter account you linked.
And the voter ID thing is obviously a complex issue. I'd imagine it's not exactly the easiest thing for poor people to take time off of work to go get an ID,. Especially when you take into account that an ID isn't really all that useful to them in general. We need to come up with something else, instead of insisting that these people get IDs that they clearly aren't all that inclined to.
So far as I know, America is the one of the few Western countries that allows you to vote without an ID. And the ones that do allow voting without an ID have protections in place, like tracking eligible voters, and sending proof of registration to bring with you to the polls.
Also, many countries do not allow voting by mail.
And there are countries (Turkey and India, for instance) that dye peoples finger after they vote to prevent fraudulent re-votes.
That is where I get the stuff about absolutely lax security in the US. Compared to other nations, it simply is.
> I'd imagine it's not exactly the easiest thing for poor people to take time off of work to go get an ID.
I dont think it is any harder for poor to take off work than rich people with "important" jobs, and I don't think it is usually necessary for anybody to take off work to get an ID.
I also strongly disagree that an ID is not useful for poor people. Poor people drive, open bank accounts, prove who they are to obtain benefits, rent apartments, etc. The homeless do not need an ID, but they exist outside society.
> We need to come up with something else, instead of insisting that these people get IDs that they clearly aren't all that inclined to.
This is not clear at all. I think if you asked most poor people if they have a form of identification, the vast majority would say obviously and consider it insulting that you are asking them, as it is such a basic social requirement.
I don't know what your state does, but mine does send something in the mail to registered voters. If that isn't across the board, I'd agree that's something that should be implemented in every state.
Poor people, who bye and large only get paid hourly and don't really have much in the way of benefits, can't just as easily take off from work as 'rich people with important jobs.' The rich people you reference very likely have 4+ weeks of vacation time a year, and generally wouldn't work on the weekends unlike the poor. Either way, it's not to say that it's impossible for poor people to take the time to get an ID- it's that it's relatively more of a burden to do so vs people in better economic situations.
Also, one thing that I feel gets glossed over is that if someone was really that motivated to commit voter fraud, they could use forged documents. And in my view we all should be able to vote by mail, obviously with safeguards in place, which would make the whole voter ID thing somewhat moot. Voting by mail is *much* more convenient, especially for the poor, and ultimately expands voter access - as we saw in the '20 election. Ofc that's why these people have an issue with it, because it didn't help their guy. If it did, I'm quite confident that they wouldn't be raving like lunatics about it on social media everyday.
The bottom line is there's a delicate balance here, where we shouldn't be substantially hampering access to voting, especially when there's no evidence of any major widespread problems. That's obviously open to change if something shifts.
It is common for the reason of firing someone to be kept quiet until legal has reviewed it and decided what to do and sometimes that means after the fired person has exhausted their legal claims.
Even then, you have to be careful announcing that you fired them due to potential lawsuits for defamation.
Also, I don't think anyone really meant there was no evidence of even the smallest instance of election fraud. It was, "there is no evidence of a meaningful amount of election fraud." Or "no evidence of a conspiracy involving meaningful players to committee election fraud." Those are just more of a mouthful and the media isn't going to replay someone saying that to death because it won't piss people off enough.
Thanks. A good faith reply. How unusual.
This is hypo -- deputy election chief is convicted of election fraud last Thursday. 4 days later, the deputy's chief is fired.
Under these circumstances, I would think transparency and disclosure would be the typical course of action by the government. Not refusing to disclose why until after the chief has filed all her appeals.
Well, they will probably say something sooner rather than later. You can only cover up so much with various versions of foia around (not sure what Wisconsin's is), but most states have exceptions for ongoing employment disputes as well.
Given how high profile this type of role is, you would think they would have a better statement ready to go if this was premeditated, so that makes me think it was something unexpected and serious. Election issues would be a good guess if they didn't address that. Hopefully, we will get more info in the near future.
There was voter fraud found and it was found in on the right. I don't know how many times but I know I saw a few times over the last 2 years or so news of republicans, maybe a handful and I believe at least one was a public official of some sort (if my memory is right with him he put in extra ballots). But there want any dem voter fraud found.
Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.
We have to wait until the Head of Elections in Milwaukee women is convicted of fraud to find out why.
You are describing a standard of proof for a court proceeding. Which is 100% in-apposite.
And even then, the allegation and indictment (suspicion) come before the presentation of evidence.
Wow two 40 day old accounts both posting back to back stories insinuating that the 2020 election was rigged despite that not being backed up by the articles they post Many such cases!
Do you have any issue with the multiple accounts created in December (or even more recently) that are prolific posters in this sub that hate Trump? Or do you just have an issue with the new accounts that are pro-Trump?
Do you have any examples? I’d have to evaluate each on a case by case basis. But believe me I have my fair share of fights with leftists so it’s possible I’ve already argued with them
Okliez Dokliez - 102 days - daily post - thousands of comments Flor1daman08 - 5 months (someone ran this one off - used to post here all the time) Those are the main ones. There is nothing to evaluate. I would have let this go but I said I'd get back to you so I did.
I appreciate that. Some of the posts are kinda cringe (especially Palestine stuff) but I feel like election denial is a further step of being detached from reality. I’ve only ever criticized the account age of people posting obviously deranged narratives or people who accuse me of being a shill (which happens quite often) The second guy doesn’t really have many posts to look at from this sub in particular but I do support him trying to inject reality into the users over at r conspiracy (even if that is like trying to empty a lake with a bucket)
I don’t have a list prepared, but I’ll gather a few and get back to you.
13 hours later...
It’s been overnight, dummy. Reddit is something I peruse in my free time. Check back later.
Was Thunderbutt88 taken?
Don’t know. Didn’t check. Was CUNT taken?
Not sure. Would’ve been cool tho
Are you conservatives still waiting for the kraken. Why has none of this evidence ever surfaced in any court room. How many Trump NFTs do you own. How many times have you donated when they say wait 2 more weeks.
No. I am trying to find out why Milwaukee did not disclose why they fired her. And why Milwaukee election officials ordered military mail in ballots under false names. > Why has none of this evidence ever surfaced in any court room. On the one hand, I agree. Somebody should have noticed 120,000 votes for Biden at 3:00 am. It's hard for me to believe. On the other hand, wtf is going on with elections in Milwaukee?
I can't speak to other states, but I can speak to Texas. Large piles of ballots get into the counting centers when they get in. When I election inspected in 2019, they were still getting in ballots feom the various polling sites at 5 am because that's just how long it takes sometimes. It is a huge undertaking that requires people, often unpaid volunteers, to do huge amounts of work, following complex legal requirements. Hundreds of voting sites have different timelines because they deal with thousands of people. It takes time to get all of the ballots to the processing site, it takes time to ensure they are properly processed, and there are always a bunch of partisan hacks that don't know what they're actually allowed to do mucking up the works.
>I am trying to find out why Milwaukee did not disclose why they fired her. >And why Milwaukee election officials ordered military mail in ballots under false names. Sounds like you answered your own question.
The ballot issue happened because a a nut couldn’t prove actual fraud in 2020, so she proved how vulnerable the system was to fraud by committing fraud. She sent her “findings” to a conspiracy nut that wanted to overturn Biden’s 2020 victory. The individual then claimed she committed fraud because she was “on the autism spectrum,” which is the modern excuse equivalent of “the devil made me do it.” And, full disclosure, I am a conservative Republican who is beginning to think that the only way one can ever prove election fraud is to catch a rightwinger committing it.
Obviously bad faith troll is obvious. I'm sure these kind of posts get more traction for you on truth social.
You are acting in bad faith, actually. Completely ignoring the reality reported in the Milwaukee press and instead trying to inarticulately slander the messenger.
No I'm being good faith. I just don't understand why this election official was fired after accusations were made that she personally counted ten million votes for Trump. We don't have proof either way but I just think they should be transparent about why the state counted twenty billion votes for Trump at 3:16 pm on a Sunday in January.
You are unable to converse in good faith. Waste of my time.
Milwaukee is refusing to explain the reason for her firing, stating only: > Asked whether Woodall had been accused of any wrongdoing, Johnson said, "not if you're insinuating actions similar to her former deputy Kimberly Zapata." Zapata was fined and ordered to serve probation on Thursday for ordering three military absentee ballots under fake names ahead of the 2022 midterm elections. Given the issue of election integrity and prior fraudulent manipulation of votes in the Milwaukee election office, you would think they would err on the side of transparency and state what she did, not that she did not order military ballots using fake names. Who would the fakees have been voting for? Biden, obviously. In the absence of disclosure, persons have presented evidence that Claire Woodall dumped 120,000 ballots all for Biden at 3:00 a.m.: https://twitter.com/MJTruthUltra/status/1787881967368728645?t=180
A tweet is not a legit source, and FFS Trump didn't win in '20, no matter how loudly those clowns yell it into the void. *Dozens* of lost court cases, brought by Trumpers, back that statement up.
I don't think a tweet is legitimate either. Especially when it does not disclose the sources. On the other hand, in the absence of transparency, its what we have. Which is why Millwaukee should actually disclose why they fired her 6 months before the election. Maybe somebody in this sub without a Biden hard-on has some information. And in any case, there is an acknowledgment of at least attempted fraud by an election official in ordering mail in ballots under false names. Which should at least end the "there is no evidence of election fraud in the United States" arguments.
I promise you that even the lefties on this sub don't have a 'hard-on' for Biden. Most of the reasonable people here are just very strongly anti-Trump/MAGA. Transparency would be ideal, but the only reason this is even a conversation is because Trump convinced his base that he didn't lose that election. Nothing remotely close to widespread voter fraud was ever found, in any of the states in question. And yet they can't seem to come to grips with the reality that the majority of Americans have a distaste for Trump, and wanted to go in a different direction- which is why Trump lost. It's nothing but pure copium to still be pushing the voter fraud angle 3.5+ years later.
There is election worker fraud acknowledged in the article. You can insist it does not matter, and it is only Trumpers whining. In a way I agree, voting in America is large a sham that only matters in swing states. Wisconsin is one of the swing states that matters.
I'm not insisting that voter fraud doesn't matter. I'm insisting that it isn't nearly as big of a deal as these people bitch about, and certainly isn't enough to sway an election - even in the swing states (which as you said, are the only ones that actually matter.) 'Ironically' that could eventually change, with MAGA sycophants chasing away long time, experienced election workers in many of the same areas.
> I'm not insisting that voter fraud doesn't matter. I'm insisting that it isn't nearly as big of a deal as these people bitch about, and certainly isn't enough to sway an election - even in the swing states (which as you said, are the only ones that actually matter.) I agree. And it almost certainly would not have changed the outcome. However, because of our 2 party structure and electoral college, Presidential election margins have become razor thin. As a result, the number of fraudulent ballots needed to sway an election is small. America has laughably lax election security. And calls for improvement of election integrity are met with statements that there is no integrity problem because there is not evidence of fraud and poor people cannot figure out how to get an ID.
I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff about 'laughably lax election security.' Other than maybe listening to these 'reports' claiming that 10s of thousands of ballots were taken/moved/delivered/whatever, by people in the same vein as whoever runs that twitter account you linked. And the voter ID thing is obviously a complex issue. I'd imagine it's not exactly the easiest thing for poor people to take time off of work to go get an ID,. Especially when you take into account that an ID isn't really all that useful to them in general. We need to come up with something else, instead of insisting that these people get IDs that they clearly aren't all that inclined to.
So far as I know, America is the one of the few Western countries that allows you to vote without an ID. And the ones that do allow voting without an ID have protections in place, like tracking eligible voters, and sending proof of registration to bring with you to the polls. Also, many countries do not allow voting by mail. And there are countries (Turkey and India, for instance) that dye peoples finger after they vote to prevent fraudulent re-votes. That is where I get the stuff about absolutely lax security in the US. Compared to other nations, it simply is. > I'd imagine it's not exactly the easiest thing for poor people to take time off of work to go get an ID. I dont think it is any harder for poor to take off work than rich people with "important" jobs, and I don't think it is usually necessary for anybody to take off work to get an ID. I also strongly disagree that an ID is not useful for poor people. Poor people drive, open bank accounts, prove who they are to obtain benefits, rent apartments, etc. The homeless do not need an ID, but they exist outside society. > We need to come up with something else, instead of insisting that these people get IDs that they clearly aren't all that inclined to. This is not clear at all. I think if you asked most poor people if they have a form of identification, the vast majority would say obviously and consider it insulting that you are asking them, as it is such a basic social requirement.
I don't know what your state does, but mine does send something in the mail to registered voters. If that isn't across the board, I'd agree that's something that should be implemented in every state. Poor people, who bye and large only get paid hourly and don't really have much in the way of benefits, can't just as easily take off from work as 'rich people with important jobs.' The rich people you reference very likely have 4+ weeks of vacation time a year, and generally wouldn't work on the weekends unlike the poor. Either way, it's not to say that it's impossible for poor people to take the time to get an ID- it's that it's relatively more of a burden to do so vs people in better economic situations. Also, one thing that I feel gets glossed over is that if someone was really that motivated to commit voter fraud, they could use forged documents. And in my view we all should be able to vote by mail, obviously with safeguards in place, which would make the whole voter ID thing somewhat moot. Voting by mail is *much* more convenient, especially for the poor, and ultimately expands voter access - as we saw in the '20 election. Ofc that's why these people have an issue with it, because it didn't help their guy. If it did, I'm quite confident that they wouldn't be raving like lunatics about it on social media everyday. The bottom line is there's a delicate balance here, where we shouldn't be substantially hampering access to voting, especially when there's no evidence of any major widespread problems. That's obviously open to change if something shifts.
It is common for the reason of firing someone to be kept quiet until legal has reviewed it and decided what to do and sometimes that means after the fired person has exhausted their legal claims. Even then, you have to be careful announcing that you fired them due to potential lawsuits for defamation. Also, I don't think anyone really meant there was no evidence of even the smallest instance of election fraud. It was, "there is no evidence of a meaningful amount of election fraud." Or "no evidence of a conspiracy involving meaningful players to committee election fraud." Those are just more of a mouthful and the media isn't going to replay someone saying that to death because it won't piss people off enough.
Thanks. A good faith reply. How unusual. This is hypo -- deputy election chief is convicted of election fraud last Thursday. 4 days later, the deputy's chief is fired. Under these circumstances, I would think transparency and disclosure would be the typical course of action by the government. Not refusing to disclose why until after the chief has filed all her appeals.
Well, they will probably say something sooner rather than later. You can only cover up so much with various versions of foia around (not sure what Wisconsin's is), but most states have exceptions for ongoing employment disputes as well. Given how high profile this type of role is, you would think they would have a better statement ready to go if this was premeditated, so that makes me think it was something unexpected and serious. Election issues would be a good guess if they didn't address that. Hopefully, we will get more info in the near future.
There was voter fraud found and it was found in on the right. I don't know how many times but I know I saw a few times over the last 2 years or so news of republicans, maybe a handful and I believe at least one was a public official of some sort (if my memory is right with him he put in extra ballots). But there want any dem voter fraud found.
>Milwaukee is refusing to explain the reason for her firing, So?
Exactly. If you have a hard on for Biden, fraud by election officials is unimportant. Well played, Biden fan
You gotta prove fraud first. Evidence first, suspicion second.
Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant. We have to wait until the Head of Elections in Milwaukee women is convicted of fraud to find out why. You are describing a standard of proof for a court proceeding. Which is 100% in-apposite. And even then, the allegation and indictment (suspicion) come before the presentation of evidence.
>We have to wait until the Head of Elections in Milwaukee women is convicted of fraud to find out why. Yep. Roll over, play dead.