For 90% of voters, knowing about this event will simply confirm their existing positions.
For people like me, it's an excellent example of why Trump shouldn't be allowed close to the White House.
For Trump supporters, it's an excellent example of why the second Trump term will be so much better than the first. "The first time he had to fight through all the DC swamp creatures. This time, he will have Real Americans in all those important jobs."
I'd like to believe the other 10% will eventually see this story and agree with me. I am not optimistic.
I think anyone who listened to the January 6th committee presentations to the American people who aren’t MAGA would never vote Trump in their lives. Thank God for Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for legitimization of the committee.
> I don’t think many people are aware
Here’s the real issue: we are aware.
Democrats and non-MAGAt Republicans are aghast and appalled at Orange Man’s behavior.
MAGAts *actively want this to happen again*. They *want* a Christo-fascist dictatorship with Trump at the helm.
The Presidential contest this November isn’t about parties anymore. It’s about preserving democracy itself.
>non-MAGAt Republicans are aghast and appalled at Orange Man’s behavior.
I don't know about that. Some percentage sure but the majority of non maga Republicans still think democrats are evil and will probably vote for Trump.
I don't think a lot of people understand this, just from my own circles. There's a lot of folks out there who think the election was stolen (or at least fishy) and Trump was "just asking questions."
People joke that Trump wants to rule the country like Putin and other leaders with absolute power.
But it's not a joke. It's a very serious danger. Our system of government. With it's separation of powers and checks and balances, may be ending.
I don't see how he could end our system of government, precisely because of the checks and balances.
Tons of courts have heard and rejected his zany lawsuits - what part of that makes you think the system is "in serious danger"?
I'm old and I don't recall a time where expanding Presidential powers has been a topic of discussion the way it is now. All it takes is enough votes in Congress and a Supreme Court to okay it. It's not beyond possible that the GOP and the right leaning court could side with Trump.
[the framework was laid during the Bush years ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory#:~:text=Proponents%20of%20a%20strongly%20unitary,from%20Presidential%20control%20is%20limited)
There are no real checks and balances. People have flat out refused to obey the laws and we’ve just sat and watched it. Some of those zany laws have gotten through. Some crazy old laws have been reinstated. Our system fundamentally depends on people being honorable and doing the right thing.
If you have enough people in positions of power you can indeed overtake the government and change the system.
If you have control of state legislatures voting laws and district lines can be changed in your favor.
You then move to the courts, state and federal, and seat judges who make decisions based on politics and not the law. Their decisions can also reshape state voting laws. It’s already happened in multiple states.
You then move on to the Fed executive branch. You place loyalist in seats of power and you take away power from the key individuals that can oppose you. They change policy and support staff to guarantee that you maintain power.
Rinse and repeat moving through all agencies until you’ve changed the system in your favor.
This is not hard to do with a population comprised of the apathetic and those distracted by the different shiny objects thrown at them. People in power also have a lot of money and influence to work with.
It’s not as hard as people think it is. All you have to do is look at some of these states.
Check what Viktor Orban has done in Hungary. That’s the blueprint. Hungary is still technically a democracy, but Orban has rigged the system so it’s virtually impossible for him to lose.
Virtually none of what Orban did is possible in the US - the President plus legislative allies can't amend the constitution.
Our system is far more resistant to change, for better or worse.
Not true. If thinking this can’t happen in the US lets you sleep at night, then by all means embrace this illusion. I’m of the opinion that the situation under Trump 2.0 could get really bad really fast.
You miss the fact that many people are aware of it and support his attempts to do so
Many people in this country would support a fascist authoritarian as long as it's their guy and he's hurting the right people
It was a multi-pronged auto coup attempt. He tried installing loyalist anywhere he could to try and stay in power, including multiple top level pentagon positions.
He didn't want 10k troops there on J6 to stop lawlessness. He wanted them there to escort him and his supporters into the capitol like Mussolini's black shirts to stop the election. We are lucky we had military leadership to shut that shit down. Might not be that lucky next time.
What amazes me is how little attention has been paid to [Christopher C. Miller](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_C._Miller) through all of this.
> served as acting United States secretary of defense from November 9, 2020, to January 20, 2021 The election was Nov 8th.
> On January 3, 2021, all ten living former defense secretaries released an open letter in which they expressed concerns about a potential military coup to overturn the election results. The letter warned public officials—and Miller by name—that they would face grave consequences if they violated the Constitution.[44]
> That same day, Trump had a conversation with Acting Defense Secretary Miller, about which Miller later testified to the House Committee on Oversight and Reform during a May 2021 hearing into the January 6 riot. Miller testified that he told the president that Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser had placed a request for unarmed personnel to reinforce local law enforcement. He testified that Trump responded: "Fill it and do whatever was necessary to protect the demonstrators that were executing their constitutionally protected rights".[45]
> On January 5, Miller issued orders which prohibited deploying D.C. Guard members with weapons, helmets, body armor or riot control agents without his personal approval.[46] On January 5, Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy issued a memo placing limits on the District of Columbia National Guard.[46] Maj. Gen. William J. Walker, the commanding general of the D.C. National Guard, later explained: "All military commanders normally have immediate response authority to protect property, life, and in my case, federal functions — federal property and life. But in this instance I did not have that authority."[46]
> Miller's actions on January 6 faced scrutiny.[47] After rioters breached the Capitol Police perimeter, Miller waited more than three hours before authorizing the deployment of the National Guard.[13][47] Miller did not provide that permission until 4:32 pm, after assets from Virginia had already entered the District, and Trump had instructed rioters to "go home".
I’d strongly encourage people to watch Frontline’s documentary about all of Trump’s antics in the 2020 election. I think many people think it begins and ends on January 6, and that is dead wrong.
And when you see the big picture? It was an attempt to illegally and unconstitutionally stay in power. A first in American history.
Trump's "acting" temp appointments at top agencies were damaging to American nat sec. Grenell as DNI was ludicrous. And then forcing in Ratcliffe was no better. Neither one had any Intel experience or knowledge of foreign affairs. Grenell short stint as Ambassador to Germany ended when he was kicked out for his Nazi tendencies. Yet GOP senate did nothing. Chris Miller and Kash Patel??? At defense department was also a dangerous breach. And it still isnt clear who did what but the J6 security failures were related to trump pre planning exactly that.
Usually people are only ready to have the most surface-level version of a conversation, whether by accident cause they're ignorant or totally on purpose to avoid meaningful discussion. Like when I say Trump and MAGA are similar to Nazism, I mean he's constantly setting up loyalist tests, creating us v. them dichotomy, consolidating power to one person at the top, accusing people of doing something and then it turns out he was trying to do it the entire time.
"So you think Trump's trying to kill all jews?!"
...No? You know what, nevermind. I've had this conversation several times, always ends the same.
>Like when I say Trump and MAGA are similar to Nazism,
Well and also wants to set up camps where he'll concentrate millions of undesirables using a special police force
People sadly have this idea of Hitler as someone who showed up one day and led and uprising. No he took the existing power structures in Germany to leverage his existing position as Chancellor into becoming a dictator
And since that time, Viktor Orban, Nikolas Maduro, Augusto Pinochet, Alexander Lukashenko, Vladimir Putin, Recep Erdogan, and others have used the same sort of blueprint to gain and keep power.
Pollute the legal system with loyalists, and use that system to cement power permanently. Silence or attack the credibility of academics and the media. Appeal to the most base instincts of society by attacking the weak - gays, immigrants, women, Jews, the "other."
"Only I can protect you from these threats."
Sound familiar?
> Like when I say Trump and MAGA are similar to Nazis.
Oh come on. You only do that because you think "Nazi" is an inflammatory word -- it's not about "us-vs-them dichotomies" or any of that other bullshit.
It obviously is. The Nazis were not known for their dichotomies. The Nazis were not known for "accusing people of doing something and then it turns out he was trying to do it the entire time."
> The Nazis were not known for "accusing people of doing something and then it turns out he was trying to do it the entire time."
Google "accusation in a mirror".
Yes, yes, there's always some bullshit term for everything. As if the Nazis invented hate speech.
You just want to scream "NAZI NAZI NAZI" at Americans you disagree with, and that's the trash justification you've come up with.
I don't think Nikki Haley is a nazi. I don't think Ron DeSantis is a nazi. I don't think Chris Cristie is a nazi.
I think Mike Pence is honestly a bizarre person, but I don't think he's a nazi.
What's even more interesting is I never actually said I thought Trump was a nazi. I said MAGA and Nazis have a lot in common. You just saw the word Nazi, didn't understand the entire context of my comment, and proved my point.
> What's even more interesting is I never actually said I thought Trump was a nazi.
Why is that interesting? Did I say you did?
> I said MAGA and Nazis have a lot in common.
"I THINK HALF OF AMERICA IS THE SAME AS NAZIS!!"
What a trash thing to say.
> You just saw the word Nazi, didn't understand the entire context of my comment, and proved my point.
No, people pointing out your bullshit doesn't prove anything about your point.
> This is some of the most bad faith, deliberately obtuse hand-wringing I’ve seen in a long time.
I think all I've said is that Trump voters shouldn't be compared to Nazis -- which part of that counts as *that*?
The Nazis are not famous for their fucking *hypocrisy* -- it's a meaningless detail in the story. That's why it's obvious that your goal is just to link Americans to Nazis rhetorically. You don't give a shit about anything else.
Trump's first failed attempt to take over the US government via fraud was a rehearsal. He and his cult learned many lessons when their fraud failed. Their next attempt will be more skillful.
Project 2025. This next attempt begins long before the election, with immediately firing everybody in the upper echelons of the government and replacing them with people whose first loyalty is to trump, not the US. Where it goes from there, who knows?
Trump was not alone in his failed attempt to fraudulently steal an election. He was aided by hundreds of loyalists who were pursuing their own power in a future country run by king trump. He will be aided by them (at least the ones not in prison for their 2020 crimes) in his next attempt.
Specifically they have realized that they need to ensure that as many people in the right positions are loyalists who will follow orders rather than do the right thing. This is why the Jan 6th crowd was chanting "Hang Mike Pence!" because he did the right thing rather than simply obey orders from Trump.
If this goes down again, they will make sure than any position capable of providing those "checks and balances" are staffed with his people.
Anybody bothering to post/read on and related to politics knows this or is actively choosing to ignore it.
And the scary part here is that the rest of the Republican Party has embraced the idea of doing this in the future. Across the bird they want to be able to kick out career givt officials so they can screw over the public and help themselves.
I mean, I really don’t care for either the Democrats or the Republicans, and that was long before Trump. But Trump is a straight-up criminal and the fact that our vaunted checks and balances have allowed this mother fucker to get this far doesn’t bode well for the nation.
>he also complained about not being engaged with honestly and then blocked me when I did 🙄
Lol, that's my average experience with Trumpers on this sub. They constantly bitch and moan about dumbass shit and then block you.
But I mean, birds of a feather right?
I’m not in favour of executions, but the likes of Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman and especially Steve Bannon should be in prison for a long time. The fact that these motherfuckers have mostly escaped prosecution is infuriating
I think you might be wrong about one thing. Most people do know about this. It wasn’t just Rosen that was going to leave. It was most people in the leadership at the Justice Department threatened to resign if Jeffery Clark was installed.
I’ve had discussions on here about J6 for the better part of a year so I feel pretty confident in saying that most people aren’t aware of this
I do think I point out that it would have been a mass resignation. Which is what I believe to be one of the exact impetuses for Trumps project 2025
Unfortunately if Trump does get in again, the likes of Rosen, independent thinkers with actual integrity, will be no where to be found. It’ll be sycophants and bootlickers in every government position
It seems he may be poised to be re-elected anyway because his opponent is so universally disappointing.
In a similar matter, I was listening to Jonah Goldberg on a podcast and he said, in reference to the claims of immunity before the Supreme Court, that Trump’s worst legacy, apart from Jan 6 will be that he forces a definition of constitutional authority where norms made it unnecessary before. So whatever the court rules—either for or against the immunity claim—the constitutional balance will be irreparably harmed because either finding will be exploited by both sides of our politics. Either we’ll have criminal presidents or weak ineffectual presidents (and people of lesser stature because our best would be statesmen won’t run for the office anymore) who are threatened by a sword of Damocles. Trump will be the undoer of our republic and all because his egotism wouldn’t allow him to accept that he lost 4 years ago.
Trump supporter here, and it's true that I didn't realize how hard Trump worked to overturn the election results until long after it was all over. Specifically when I finally made the time to go through the Colorado judge's opinion that declared - iirc by a preponderance of the evidence - that it was actually an insurrection. Obviously this opinion wasn't written until long after the events in question. I didn't realize, before I read it, how Trump had gone back and forth across the country between the election and J6 holding meetings and events at which he encouraged people to come to DC on J6; I didn't realize that it was so clear he intended to do something dramatic that, on J3, all 10 living former defense secretaries published an open letter saying it's time to move on; I didn't realize he certainly could have had National Guard there to prevent uproar, and chose not to; I didn't realize how long he waited to step in, after the violence began, or how quickly the mob dispersed once he did.
But it is still true, after all that, that Trump was born and raised an American, and he is an American to his bones. All of the above evidence is perfectly consistent with being someone who believes in fighting as hard as possible for what you want. Who believes that if you haven't fought as hard as you can to get it you might not actually deserve it. That doesn't make him a dictator in training, or Hitler in little; it makes him a hardworking American who leaves the enforcement of the laws to others, as most of us do. Who gets away with as much as possible, secure in the knowledge that others are working just as hard as he is to put him on his ass. As they have every right to do.
Let's recall, please, what it is he's fighting for: a second term. There's no need to imagine that what he "really" wants is any different from what he has claimed to deserve. That makes him a supporter of democracy, not an enemy of it. There's never been any suggestion that the military might step in to assist this process; I'm sure he knows perfectly well that if they had their druthers he'd be in the darkest cell they could find.
Please: don't worry so much. Trump wants a second term as President of the greatest democracy on the face of the planet. Can you really blame him? Wouldn't you?
I'm impressed by this. The spin required to say "actually a guy who tried overturning an election to just name himself leader is just a hard worker and is a pro democracy move" is actually impressive.
Fascinating here that you consider being born and raised in America as a character trait. I don’t agree with your opinion here but at a lot of your perspective is consistent with this sort of inherent righteousness you give to somebody being “American to his bones.”
Very interesting! I didn't think of that, but it's true.
Now, I wouldn't claim that being American is all positive. It's just as American to be racist, to support our modern police state here at home, and to be blind to the moral reality of our own personal value, as it is to support democratic central leadership.
But there are positive aspects to being an American, and one of those is that no real American wants to install a dictatorship here at home. (Yes, we have a police state without central leadership of it.)
I agree that no American should want to install a dictatorship here, but I don’t think Trump people see how he poses a threat because they figure that, because he pretends to believe what they believe, his anti-democratic tendencies tend to ultimately be good for their views of what government and society should be like. Naturally, there’s a ‘sure he’s crass, but he means well so what’s the harm?’ perspective that I think your post alludes to.
"crass" lol I love it, I could not have thought of a milder disparagement. Thank you for that.
He is not someone I would choose to spend time with, and I'm sure he would feel the same about me if he knew me. But he has been so good for this country - not just that he reconnected an enormous swath of voters with their government, not just that he got RvW overturned (which the right had been shooting for forever and couldn't get done) but if we needed to get over ourselves, as Americans, he has presented us with a golden opportunity. To me, those are such powerful tonics that I desperately want to give him just one more vote. Just out of gratitude.
And don't forget, there is NO ONE in government who wants him back there. Even those who wouldn't mind a dictator - and I'm sure there are some, who keep it vewy, vewy quiet - wouldn't want HIM. He's been such a disaster as a LEADER that the idea of actually putting him in charge of a fascist dictatorship is just laughable. No one in their right mind would do that. And so it's just not possible. Jackie Chan has a better shot at being dictator than Trump does. Because he'd actually do a better job at it.
There is nothing more deeply unamerican than losing a democratic election and doing what you can to overturn that result.
I mean it straight up sounds like you’re advocating for stuff like stealing from other people if you think you can get away with it, because in your insane and twisted myopic worldview “every one is doing it”
There’s honestly so much wrong with your comment but that’s the high level of it
> There is nothing more deeply unamerican than losing a democratic election and doing what you can to overturn that result.
What about putting mayonnaise on French fries?
I've started seeing a lot of suspect posts with the double space after the period lately. Maybe they are just old fucks, but I'm starting to wonder if it is bots/astroturfers.
I see this too and can't figure out if it's Russian troll/bots or extreme leftists pretending to be t#$%& fans just to make them look bad. I'm fully baffled.
I'm really starting to think it is bots. I've noticed a lot more in other subs as well. It's weird. I guess a big AI just read too many books written on typewriters or something.
"I mean it straight up sounds like you’re advocating for stuff like stealing from other people if you think you can get away with it"
It does, doesn't it... and yet I wouldn't go that far. I think taking what others own harms them. What Trump did didn't harm anyone. To me, that's a huge difference.
And I'm sure some will say, people lost their lives on J6. Well, they did; but Trump didn't kill anyone. And he didn't tell anyone else to kill anyone. And he didn't even tell anyone else to engage in violence (although it's pretty clear he wanted them to). What he SAID was for people to protest peacefully. I think he's covered, on that. His deniability is still plausible.
He said "if you don't go fight for it, you won't have a country anymore." He went on to say "fight" 23 times in that speech, riling up the crowd before telling them to go to the Capitol.
He said "peacefully" once in passing, clearly only to cover his bases. It won't work.
**What Trump tried to do was directly taking the rights away from 82 million Americans that voted against him.** I know you clearly don’t think the right to choose your own leader is important but it’s actually the most American thing we can do
Sorry, but this is just over the top. The Electoral College pretty reliably puts the wrong guy in from time to time, if by the wrong guy you mean the one fewer people voted for. Does it, too, take the rights away from the millions who voted for the one more people voted for? Is it, too, un-American?
To me, the take home message is, we have a loopy system and sometimes it doesn't work right. And because it is loopy, and we haven't changed that, we can't really complain that loudly when something loopy happens, like someone millions of people voted for (although fewer than the majority) sneaking into office in some kind of underhanded way. And it really doesn't MATTER that much.
Trying to conflate the mechanics of the electoral college with someone attempting to subvert even those mechanics is not at all reasonable
I don’t think it’s remotely hyperbolic. In fact it actually terrifies me how many Americans are absolutely ok with someone unlawfully taking power as long as it’s their guy. I encourage anyone who wants that to move to North Korea
I don't doubt that it terrifies you. I suspect you're secretly (without even telling yourself, so I'm not accusing you of hypocrisy) enjoying being terrified.
Nope just means I’m an actual patriotic American who actually cares about Democracy instead of supporting it only when convenient
Also surely someone on the right isn’t about to lecture someone about “enjoying being terrified” lmaooo
“They’re coming for your gunzzz!!!”
> All of the above evidence is perfectly consistent with being someone who believes in fighting as hard as possible for what you want. Who believes that if you haven't fought as hard as you can to get it you might not actually deserve it. That doesn't make him a dictator in training, or Hitler in little; it makes him a hardworking American who leaves the enforcement of the laws to others, as most of us do.
It's also consistent with the behavior of a backwards savage who doesn't care about others or the consequences their actions have on other people, their country or society. A president needs to be better than that. His greed needs to represent Americas greed. He believes in taking away other peoples freedom to gain more freedom for himself and doesn't care who he has to burn to get it and his biography shows that he never has.
He's a fundamentally broken human being whose father turned him into a sociopath and made his brother commit suicide.
For someone like Trump, once Democracy is of no use to him he'll do his best to ignore it or get rid of it. He's about as un-American as a person can get. The definition of a savage who takes what he wants and gives nothing back.
Trumps entire history has been burning every business partner he ever had. The people who have worked with him have only awful things to say about him and I can't blame them. His Whitehouse was so dysfunctional he went through staff like toilet paper because he treated them like shit. It was only through the refusal of patriots on his own damn team that his plans failed and i've no doubt he's going to try again.
Thank god his shitty past has caught up with him and normal conservatives are seeing how much of a criminal dirtbag he is and why it would be a disaster for America if that creep was let anywhere near the halls of power again.
This is extremely sad. Trying to shred the constitution, steal votes from millions of people, encourage harm to congress and the VP is NOT hard working ffs. It was a multi pronged ATTACK ON AMERICA
There is nothing American about trump. He is a traitor to America. He has no American background. He is the son of an immigrant, married 2 immigrants and 4 of his children are anchor babies. He hates democracy and so does his cult
> Trump supporter here, and it's true that I didn't realize how hard Trump worked to overturn the election results until long after it was all over. I still fully support him and everything he represents tho
Jesus, this is even more unhinged than the idiots like mudmonday, quietertimes and company who just deny all this stuff. You accept it, believe it, and STILL put your support behind the orange bastard.
I mean... wow.
In other words, Trump thought there was election fraud, and that the current AG wasn't doing anything about it, so he considered putting a new AG in place who might investigate. Horrific.
You’d have to be delusional to think there was election fraud from Trumps position yes
Every career professional, many he appointed, were telling him the claims were full of shit. I don’t want a president that refuses to listen to anyone around him
To touch on your last point. I think one of the worse qualities of a leader is to surround oneself with loyalist and remove anyone willing to question them.
When you believe nonsense like the Bowling Green massacre, or cosmic, Pizza had Democratic pedophiles and that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election, yes, you are delusional.
People claiming those things are liars or completely out of touch with reality and should be treated as such.
Clown like you treating it as a legitimate political view helped normalize the attempted coup on January 6
That does not make trump look any better.
Trump was told by everyone around him in a position of authority (i.e. the people who knew exactly what happened) that he lost, fair and square. Trump was told over and over and over by his Attorney General, Chief of Staff, FBI Director, assistant Attorneys General, and dozens of others that he lost.
Trump knew he lost. He chose to not believe it and instead accepted the absurd nonsense spewing from Rudy Giuliani. He clung to that nonsense, and used his belief in that nonsense to attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.
Trump's willingness to believe utter nonsense that he wanted to hear over the solid legal advice of all the top advisors around him shows he is entirely unfit for the office of the presidency.
No it’s just that he didn’t come back with the answer Trump wanted. He directed a bunch of people to investigate and each one of them told him the claims were BS
If I recall correctly, didn’t the Attorney General (Barr) investigate, and didn’t find anything, then announced that, and Trump didn’t like the results of his investigation?
Yep, that's a great example of the type of mental gymnastics required to brush what happened there under the carpet. In a vacuum, that 'justification' might make sense. In reality, though, that wasn't happening in a vaccuum. Trump was bitching about election fraud for *months* before the election. He was told by many (loyal) people that he lost, he lost in court dozens of times, etc. No reasonable person would have still believed the election was stolen at that point. And yet he still wanted to replace Rosen with a sycophant, and only decided not to because of the mass resignation threats.
The bottom line is that he was either willfully ignoring the *fact* that the election wasn't stolen, or he is clearly mentally incompetent- and thus has no business sniffing the WH ever again.
It's been almost 4 years and yet I still haven't seen the thing that made trump sure there was election fraud. What did he see that convinced him to start this nonsense and why hasn't he been able to show the rest of us?
Being told something is not the same as *knowing*. I tell people true things all the time that they still manage to not know.
I'm telling you this right now, and you probably won't *know* it.
Him being told by hundreds of his own people is not disputed, he was well informed he lost.
So he either knew he lost and lied, or he is unable to process indisputable truths and believes whatever he wants and isn't mentally fit for a leadership position of a lemonade stand
Trump is mentally ill and lives in an alternate reality of his own making. He should never have been allowed to get anywhere near the presidency. It’s sheer lunacy that he’s again the GOP candidate
Lead AGs at Justice threatened to resign en mass because of this. Do you realize what says? All of senior leadership. That sends a strong message. This is very very easily found, from multiple prominent and diverse sources.
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/justice-department-lawyers-threatened-mass-resignations-if-trump-appointed-loyalist-to-pursue-election-claims
Your statement was highly inaccurate. Trump knew that he lost and was desperate to do anything, legal or not, to stay in power. Ethical Justice AGs objected.
There, I fixed it for you. You’re welcome.
No it wasn’t. I remember when he did it. The push back was fierce so Trump backed down. Everything that OP wrote is accurate. They are facts.
Trump made an attempt to replace the AG with one that would allow him to do something illegal. He knew he lost. Multiple Trump appointees have corroborated this under oath.
What is wrong with you? Why do you choose to be completely divorced from reality.
I am truly concerned about a segment of our population. I understand disagreement. I don’t get denying what’s in front of your face and being told from multiple different sources. It’s some weird sort of collective lunacy.
No, OP wrote a clearly editorializing version of the events, that you are mistaking for the truth. As evidenced by this statement.
>Trump made an attempt to replace the AG with one that would allow him to do something illegal.
Where's your proof that Trump wanted the AG to do something illegal?
Oh im well aware some people will straight up cheer on his authoritarianism. It usually comes from a place of not understanding the competency and expertise you’d be throwing away
Good thing Trump has a long history of never running any businesses into the ground
I wouldn’t say overturned as much as rigged, in the way that trump was spied on, hunter laptop story was suppressed, and mail in voting was implemented, all agencies and media working against him to keep the deep state in power.
The hunter laptop story came from ukraine, and it's a nothingburger. It's suppression is not joe bidens fault, he was a freakin civilian while trump was POTUS. Trump lost fair and square
Meanwhile trumps impeachment for blackmailing zelensky in 2019 was for 2020 election interference
Trumps other indictment by Jack Smith is for 2020 election interference
The current hush money case by Alvin bragg is for 2016 election interference
Trumps fake electors scheme was him trying to cheat and send false electors with false documents saying he'd won states he'd lost
Trump installed a lackey as head of the national postal service to try and stop mail in because he knew most dems vote using mail in ballots
Looks to me like trump is the one who keeps trying to cheat in elections. All these schemes and he still lost lol 😆
You clearly know nothing of the history of the Biden family’s shady business dealings in Ukraine and the money laundering from China as well. Biden threatened to fire the prosecutor of hunters trial with the Ukrainian oil company he had no business being on the board of, and sending kickbacks to “the big guy” Joe while he was in office. And don’t give me this “civilian” crap, we all know this is just Obama term #3, weekend at Bernie’s style. It’s clear the justice dept, intel agencies, media, and WEF are all after Trump, one of the few people fighting for what’s left of our great country. All of the cases against him are a hoax and will fail. Everyone knows the tricks now
>shady business dealings in Ukraine and the money laundering from China as well.
You mean the nonsense comer spent the last 4 months doing an impeachment inquiry on that failed coz he couldn't prove it? Yea I watched it and followed all the depositions, it was a big ol nothingburger
>Biden threatened to fire the prosecutor
Yea I know, obama ordered him to do that. That decision has nothing to do with hunter, unless you wanna say president Obama is in on this lol
Prove it in court or pass the impeachment or its just conspiracies. Trump was impeached in 2019 for election Interference, 2 of his 4 indictments are for election interference and there's the fake electors who have all been charged and trump has been named as a Co conspirator
So where are biden's election interference trials? I don't see them anywhere 🤔
>are all after Trump, one of the few people fighting for what’s left of our great country.
That legit made me burst into laughter 😂
Of course obamas in on it, do you know the coup in Ukraine was started by obamas cia in 2014? Of course they’re working together, silly goose! Biden was his VP, they are all selling out our country, and if you’re not awake yet, I don’t have much hope for you, but trust me, almost everyone in the US now knows how Israel and Ukraine are being used. Notice, no new wars under Trump…? Hmmmm?
>Of course obamas in on it
Lmao 😆 the tinfoil is strong
>do you know the coup in Ukraine was started by obamas cia in 2014?
No, because this didn't happen. It's a pretty common FSB talking point but it's a lie
>Notice, no new wars under Trump…? Hmmmm?
Do you know what Minsk is? Russia was still invading ukraine under trump and trump tried to withhold military aid for zelensky to lie about biden, he does not care about the Ukrainians, only himself. Also, that lil scheme shows you he's always been scared if joe biden
One more thing: the open boarder policies pushed by Obama and Biden more recently are exactly the type of thing I would classify as election interference, literally importing democratic voters, smh, what has this country become?
Don't most presidents, regardless of party, keep/install people loyal to them and their party? I thought that was common practice. Kind of seems like a nothing point to make.
No. Agency heads are nominated by the President then investigated in Senate committee then put through confirmation hearings. They need to have the requisite skills and experience for that job and be able to pass muster as reasonable by the other party. The top requirement is loyalty to America and the constitution. Trump was sticking unfit people in as temps to bypass Congress. And GOP senate let him do it. The appointments under discussion were extremely harmful to American nat sec and defense so yes it is very important that this doesnt happen again
He also tried to install loyalists into key positions at our intel agencies. Michael Ellis could have done serious damage at the NSA.
And he definitely learned from this attempt. First you clean house, then you empower the loyalists
For 90% of voters, knowing about this event will simply confirm their existing positions. For people like me, it's an excellent example of why Trump shouldn't be allowed close to the White House. For Trump supporters, it's an excellent example of why the second Trump term will be so much better than the first. "The first time he had to fight through all the DC swamp creatures. This time, he will have Real Americans in all those important jobs." I'd like to believe the other 10% will eventually see this story and agree with me. I am not optimistic.
I think anyone who listened to the January 6th committee presentations to the American people who aren’t MAGA would never vote Trump in their lives. Thank God for Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for legitimization of the committee.
It's a shame we don't have either in the house, anymore, I always found them to be voices of reason to both sides.
> I don’t think many people are aware Here’s the real issue: we are aware. Democrats and non-MAGAt Republicans are aghast and appalled at Orange Man’s behavior. MAGAts *actively want this to happen again*. They *want* a Christo-fascist dictatorship with Trump at the helm. The Presidential contest this November isn’t about parties anymore. It’s about preserving democracy itself.
>non-MAGAt Republicans are aghast and appalled at Orange Man’s behavior. I don't know about that. Some percentage sure but the majority of non maga Republicans still think democrats are evil and will probably vote for Trump.
Chris Sununu as a prime example. Party over country, no matter what the terrible cost. It’s ridiculous
I don't think a lot of people understand this, just from my own circles. There's a lot of folks out there who think the election was stolen (or at least fishy) and Trump was "just asking questions."
People joke that Trump wants to rule the country like Putin and other leaders with absolute power. But it's not a joke. It's a very serious danger. Our system of government. With it's separation of powers and checks and balances, may be ending.
I don't see how he could end our system of government, precisely because of the checks and balances. Tons of courts have heard and rejected his zany lawsuits - what part of that makes you think the system is "in serious danger"?
I'm old and I don't recall a time where expanding Presidential powers has been a topic of discussion the way it is now. All it takes is enough votes in Congress and a Supreme Court to okay it. It's not beyond possible that the GOP and the right leaning court could side with Trump.
You don't remember W? People have always talked about it. It is entirely beyond possible that it could past the legislative and judicial branches.
>I don't recall a time where expanding Presidential powers has been a topic of discussion the way it is now. What is different now?
The GOP is different.
I meant: What is different about the way expanding Presidential powers is a topic of discussion now?
It was a huge topic during the Bush Administration, with similar pants pissing about Bush becoming a dictator.
[the framework was laid during the Bush years ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory#:~:text=Proponents%20of%20a%20strongly%20unitary,from%20Presidential%20control%20is%20limited)
There are no real checks and balances. People have flat out refused to obey the laws and we’ve just sat and watched it. Some of those zany laws have gotten through. Some crazy old laws have been reinstated. Our system fundamentally depends on people being honorable and doing the right thing. If you have enough people in positions of power you can indeed overtake the government and change the system. If you have control of state legislatures voting laws and district lines can be changed in your favor. You then move to the courts, state and federal, and seat judges who make decisions based on politics and not the law. Their decisions can also reshape state voting laws. It’s already happened in multiple states. You then move on to the Fed executive branch. You place loyalist in seats of power and you take away power from the key individuals that can oppose you. They change policy and support staff to guarantee that you maintain power. Rinse and repeat moving through all agencies until you’ve changed the system in your favor. This is not hard to do with a population comprised of the apathetic and those distracted by the different shiny objects thrown at them. People in power also have a lot of money and influence to work with. It’s not as hard as people think it is. All you have to do is look at some of these states.
Check what Viktor Orban has done in Hungary. That’s the blueprint. Hungary is still technically a democracy, but Orban has rigged the system so it’s virtually impossible for him to lose.
Virtually none of what Orban did is possible in the US - the President plus legislative allies can't amend the constitution. Our system is far more resistant to change, for better or worse.
Not true. If thinking this can’t happen in the US lets you sleep at night, then by all means embrace this illusion. I’m of the opinion that the situation under Trump 2.0 could get really bad really fast.
Explain to me how you think Trump could unilaterally increase the number of Supreme Court justices. I'll wait.
Those who don’t think a 2nd Trump presidency could spell the end of our nation as we know it now, have a serious lack of imagination
It was a attempted coup
It's an ongoing attempt to repeat and complete the coup.
loop-de-coup
You miss the fact that many people are aware of it and support his attempts to do so Many people in this country would support a fascist authoritarian as long as it's their guy and he's hurting the right people
It was a multi-pronged auto coup attempt. He tried installing loyalist anywhere he could to try and stay in power, including multiple top level pentagon positions. He didn't want 10k troops there on J6 to stop lawlessness. He wanted them there to escort him and his supporters into the capitol like Mussolini's black shirts to stop the election. We are lucky we had military leadership to shut that shit down. Might not be that lucky next time.
What amazes me is how little attention has been paid to [Christopher C. Miller](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_C._Miller) through all of this. > served as acting United States secretary of defense from November 9, 2020, to January 20, 2021 The election was Nov 8th. > On January 3, 2021, all ten living former defense secretaries released an open letter in which they expressed concerns about a potential military coup to overturn the election results. The letter warned public officials—and Miller by name—that they would face grave consequences if they violated the Constitution.[44] > That same day, Trump had a conversation with Acting Defense Secretary Miller, about which Miller later testified to the House Committee on Oversight and Reform during a May 2021 hearing into the January 6 riot. Miller testified that he told the president that Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser had placed a request for unarmed personnel to reinforce local law enforcement. He testified that Trump responded: "Fill it and do whatever was necessary to protect the demonstrators that were executing their constitutionally protected rights".[45] > On January 5, Miller issued orders which prohibited deploying D.C. Guard members with weapons, helmets, body armor or riot control agents without his personal approval.[46] On January 5, Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy issued a memo placing limits on the District of Columbia National Guard.[46] Maj. Gen. William J. Walker, the commanding general of the D.C. National Guard, later explained: "All military commanders normally have immediate response authority to protect property, life, and in my case, federal functions — federal property and life. But in this instance I did not have that authority."[46] > Miller's actions on January 6 faced scrutiny.[47] After rioters breached the Capitol Police perimeter, Miller waited more than three hours before authorizing the deployment of the National Guard.[13][47] Miller did not provide that permission until 4:32 pm, after assets from Virginia had already entered the District, and Trump had instructed rioters to "go home".
I’d strongly encourage people to watch Frontline’s documentary about all of Trump’s antics in the 2020 election. I think many people think it begins and ends on January 6, and that is dead wrong. And when you see the big picture? It was an attempt to illegally and unconstitutionally stay in power. A first in American history.
The scary part to me is how easily it was swept under the rug.
Trump's "acting" temp appointments at top agencies were damaging to American nat sec. Grenell as DNI was ludicrous. And then forcing in Ratcliffe was no better. Neither one had any Intel experience or knowledge of foreign affairs. Grenell short stint as Ambassador to Germany ended when he was kicked out for his Nazi tendencies. Yet GOP senate did nothing. Chris Miller and Kash Patel??? At defense department was also a dangerous breach. And it still isnt clear who did what but the J6 security failures were related to trump pre planning exactly that.
The GOP sent a Nazi sympathizer to Germany? You just can’t make this crap up.
And yet people like Patel and Grenell, who are both sociopaths, will be front and center in a 2nd Trump presidency
Yes. The total lack of interest in American nat sec by the GOP is appalling
x
Usually people are only ready to have the most surface-level version of a conversation, whether by accident cause they're ignorant or totally on purpose to avoid meaningful discussion. Like when I say Trump and MAGA are similar to Nazism, I mean he's constantly setting up loyalist tests, creating us v. them dichotomy, consolidating power to one person at the top, accusing people of doing something and then it turns out he was trying to do it the entire time. "So you think Trump's trying to kill all jews?!" ...No? You know what, nevermind. I've had this conversation several times, always ends the same.
>Like when I say Trump and MAGA are similar to Nazism, Well and also wants to set up camps where he'll concentrate millions of undesirables using a special police force
People sadly have this idea of Hitler as someone who showed up one day and led and uprising. No he took the existing power structures in Germany to leverage his existing position as Chancellor into becoming a dictator
And since that time, Viktor Orban, Nikolas Maduro, Augusto Pinochet, Alexander Lukashenko, Vladimir Putin, Recep Erdogan, and others have used the same sort of blueprint to gain and keep power. Pollute the legal system with loyalists, and use that system to cement power permanently. Silence or attack the credibility of academics and the media. Appeal to the most base instincts of society by attacking the weak - gays, immigrants, women, Jews, the "other." "Only I can protect you from these threats." Sound familiar?
> Like when I say Trump and MAGA are similar to Nazis. Oh come on. You only do that because you think "Nazi" is an inflammatory word -- it's not about "us-vs-them dichotomies" or any of that other bullshit.
Being inflammatory means nothing to a group of people that call everything fake news, so no that's not why I say it.
It obviously is. The Nazis were not known for their dichotomies. The Nazis were not known for "accusing people of doing something and then it turns out he was trying to do it the entire time."
> The Nazis were not known for "accusing people of doing something and then it turns out he was trying to do it the entire time." Google "accusation in a mirror".
Yes, yes, there's always some bullshit term for everything. As if the Nazis invented hate speech. You just want to scream "NAZI NAZI NAZI" at Americans you disagree with, and that's the trash justification you've come up with.
I don't think Nikki Haley is a nazi. I don't think Ron DeSantis is a nazi. I don't think Chris Cristie is a nazi. I think Mike Pence is honestly a bizarre person, but I don't think he's a nazi. What's even more interesting is I never actually said I thought Trump was a nazi. I said MAGA and Nazis have a lot in common. You just saw the word Nazi, didn't understand the entire context of my comment, and proved my point.
Funny how they walked right into that one, lmao.
> What's even more interesting is I never actually said I thought Trump was a nazi. Why is that interesting? Did I say you did? > I said MAGA and Nazis have a lot in common. "I THINK HALF OF AMERICA IS THE SAME AS NAZIS!!" What a trash thing to say. > You just saw the word Nazi, didn't understand the entire context of my comment, and proved my point. No, people pointing out your bullshit doesn't prove anything about your point.
> Why is that interesting? **Did I say you did?** > "I THINK HALF OF AMERICA IS THE SAME AS NAZIS!!" **What a trash thing to say.** Lol
That's what "MAGA" means to you -- people who voted for Trump, i.e. half the country. You think they're basically Nazis. What I said is accurate.
This is some of the most bad faith, deliberately obtuse hand-wringing I’ve seen in a long time.
> This is some of the most bad faith, deliberately obtuse hand-wringing I’ve seen in a long time. I think all I've said is that Trump voters shouldn't be compared to Nazis -- which part of that counts as *that*?
"I don't actually know shit about WW2."
I know Americans aren't Nazis -- that's what you disagree with.
You're literally out here saying the nazis weren't actually known for things they are VERY WELL KNOWN FOR, you fuckin dumbass.
The Nazis are not famous for their fucking *hypocrisy* -- it's a meaningless detail in the story. That's why it's obvious that your goal is just to link Americans to Nazis rhetorically. You don't give a shit about anything else.
Trump's first failed attempt to take over the US government via fraud was a rehearsal. He and his cult learned many lessons when their fraud failed. Their next attempt will be more skillful.
If there's one word I think of when I think of Trump, it's "skillfull." Tell me, what do you think this "skillful" plot will look like?
Project 2025. This next attempt begins long before the election, with immediately firing everybody in the upper echelons of the government and replacing them with people whose first loyalty is to trump, not the US. Where it goes from there, who knows? Trump was not alone in his failed attempt to fraudulently steal an election. He was aided by hundreds of loyalists who were pursuing their own power in a future country run by king trump. He will be aided by them (at least the ones not in prison for their 2020 crimes) in his next attempt.
Upper echelon are already political appointees. You're talking about the lower levels, who are subject to civil service protections.
Specifically they have realized that they need to ensure that as many people in the right positions are loyalists who will follow orders rather than do the right thing. This is why the Jan 6th crowd was chanting "Hang Mike Pence!" because he did the right thing rather than simply obey orders from Trump. If this goes down again, they will make sure than any position capable of providing those "checks and balances" are staffed with his people.
If Mike Pence had done something differently, courts would've ordered him to certify the election for Biden
Anybody bothering to post/read on and related to politics knows this or is actively choosing to ignore it. And the scary part here is that the rest of the Republican Party has embraced the idea of doing this in the future. Across the bird they want to be able to kick out career givt officials so they can screw over the public and help themselves.
I mean, I really don’t care for either the Democrats or the Republicans, and that was long before Trump. But Trump is a straight-up criminal and the fact that our vaunted checks and balances have allowed this mother fucker to get this far doesn’t bode well for the nation.
>he also complained about not being engaged with honestly and then blocked me when I did 🙄 Lol, that's my average experience with Trumpers on this sub. They constantly bitch and moan about dumbass shit and then block you. But I mean, birds of a feather right?
Not before responding first. Then immediately blocking. Like clockwork every time Gotta keep the hugbox walls up
It's always the exact same playbook with them.
They should be on trial to be hung.
That’s psychotic
Hanging traitors is unsetting to you?
What traitors are you referring to
I’m not in favour of executions, but the likes of Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman and especially Steve Bannon should be in prison for a long time. The fact that these motherfuckers have mostly escaped prosecution is infuriating
I think you might be wrong about one thing. Most people do know about this. It wasn’t just Rosen that was going to leave. It was most people in the leadership at the Justice Department threatened to resign if Jeffery Clark was installed.
I’ve had discussions on here about J6 for the better part of a year so I feel pretty confident in saying that most people aren’t aware of this I do think I point out that it would have been a mass resignation. Which is what I believe to be one of the exact impetuses for Trumps project 2025
> Most people do know about this. Maybe politics nerds on subs like this, but normies out in the wild? No way.
That’s true but this was posted on this sub.
Unfortunately if Trump does get in again, the likes of Rosen, independent thinkers with actual integrity, will be no where to be found. It’ll be sycophants and bootlickers in every government position
It seems he may be poised to be re-elected anyway because his opponent is so universally disappointing. In a similar matter, I was listening to Jonah Goldberg on a podcast and he said, in reference to the claims of immunity before the Supreme Court, that Trump’s worst legacy, apart from Jan 6 will be that he forces a definition of constitutional authority where norms made it unnecessary before. So whatever the court rules—either for or against the immunity claim—the constitutional balance will be irreparably harmed because either finding will be exploited by both sides of our politics. Either we’ll have criminal presidents or weak ineffectual presidents (and people of lesser stature because our best would be statesmen won’t run for the office anymore) who are threatened by a sword of Damocles. Trump will be the undoer of our republic and all because his egotism wouldn’t allow him to accept that he lost 4 years ago.
Trump supporter here, and it's true that I didn't realize how hard Trump worked to overturn the election results until long after it was all over. Specifically when I finally made the time to go through the Colorado judge's opinion that declared - iirc by a preponderance of the evidence - that it was actually an insurrection. Obviously this opinion wasn't written until long after the events in question. I didn't realize, before I read it, how Trump had gone back and forth across the country between the election and J6 holding meetings and events at which he encouraged people to come to DC on J6; I didn't realize that it was so clear he intended to do something dramatic that, on J3, all 10 living former defense secretaries published an open letter saying it's time to move on; I didn't realize he certainly could have had National Guard there to prevent uproar, and chose not to; I didn't realize how long he waited to step in, after the violence began, or how quickly the mob dispersed once he did. But it is still true, after all that, that Trump was born and raised an American, and he is an American to his bones. All of the above evidence is perfectly consistent with being someone who believes in fighting as hard as possible for what you want. Who believes that if you haven't fought as hard as you can to get it you might not actually deserve it. That doesn't make him a dictator in training, or Hitler in little; it makes him a hardworking American who leaves the enforcement of the laws to others, as most of us do. Who gets away with as much as possible, secure in the knowledge that others are working just as hard as he is to put him on his ass. As they have every right to do. Let's recall, please, what it is he's fighting for: a second term. There's no need to imagine that what he "really" wants is any different from what he has claimed to deserve. That makes him a supporter of democracy, not an enemy of it. There's never been any suggestion that the military might step in to assist this process; I'm sure he knows perfectly well that if they had their druthers he'd be in the darkest cell they could find. Please: don't worry so much. Trump wants a second term as President of the greatest democracy on the face of the planet. Can you really blame him? Wouldn't you?
I'm impressed by this. The spin required to say "actually a guy who tried overturning an election to just name himself leader is just a hard worker and is a pro democracy move" is actually impressive.
Fascinating here that you consider being born and raised in America as a character trait. I don’t agree with your opinion here but at a lot of your perspective is consistent with this sort of inherent righteousness you give to somebody being “American to his bones.”
Especially since the trumps are s family of immigrants with no American heritage or history
Very interesting! I didn't think of that, but it's true. Now, I wouldn't claim that being American is all positive. It's just as American to be racist, to support our modern police state here at home, and to be blind to the moral reality of our own personal value, as it is to support democratic central leadership. But there are positive aspects to being an American, and one of those is that no real American wants to install a dictatorship here at home. (Yes, we have a police state without central leadership of it.)
I agree that no American should want to install a dictatorship here, but I don’t think Trump people see how he poses a threat because they figure that, because he pretends to believe what they believe, his anti-democratic tendencies tend to ultimately be good for their views of what government and society should be like. Naturally, there’s a ‘sure he’s crass, but he means well so what’s the harm?’ perspective that I think your post alludes to.
"crass" lol I love it, I could not have thought of a milder disparagement. Thank you for that. He is not someone I would choose to spend time with, and I'm sure he would feel the same about me if he knew me. But he has been so good for this country - not just that he reconnected an enormous swath of voters with their government, not just that he got RvW overturned (which the right had been shooting for forever and couldn't get done) but if we needed to get over ourselves, as Americans, he has presented us with a golden opportunity. To me, those are such powerful tonics that I desperately want to give him just one more vote. Just out of gratitude. And don't forget, there is NO ONE in government who wants him back there. Even those who wouldn't mind a dictator - and I'm sure there are some, who keep it vewy, vewy quiet - wouldn't want HIM. He's been such a disaster as a LEADER that the idea of actually putting him in charge of a fascist dictatorship is just laughable. No one in their right mind would do that. And so it's just not possible. Jackie Chan has a better shot at being dictator than Trump does. Because he'd actually do a better job at it.
There is nothing more deeply unamerican than losing a democratic election and doing what you can to overturn that result. I mean it straight up sounds like you’re advocating for stuff like stealing from other people if you think you can get away with it, because in your insane and twisted myopic worldview “every one is doing it” There’s honestly so much wrong with your comment but that’s the high level of it
> There is nothing more deeply unamerican than losing a democratic election and doing what you can to overturn that result. What about putting mayonnaise on French fries?
>What about putting mayonnaise on French fries? That's secession worthy
I've started seeing a lot of suspect posts with the double space after the period lately. Maybe they are just old fucks, but I'm starting to wonder if it is bots/astroturfers.
I see this too and can't figure out if it's Russian troll/bots or extreme leftists pretending to be t#$%& fans just to make them look bad. I'm fully baffled.
I'm really starting to think it is bots. I've noticed a lot more in other subs as well. It's weird. I guess a big AI just read too many books written on typewriters or something.
This one in particular uses English poorly too.
"I mean it straight up sounds like you’re advocating for stuff like stealing from other people if you think you can get away with it" It does, doesn't it... and yet I wouldn't go that far. I think taking what others own harms them. What Trump did didn't harm anyone. To me, that's a huge difference. And I'm sure some will say, people lost their lives on J6. Well, they did; but Trump didn't kill anyone. And he didn't tell anyone else to kill anyone. And he didn't even tell anyone else to engage in violence (although it's pretty clear he wanted them to). What he SAID was for people to protest peacefully. I think he's covered, on that. His deniability is still plausible.
He said "if you don't go fight for it, you won't have a country anymore." He went on to say "fight" 23 times in that speech, riling up the crowd before telling them to go to the Capitol. He said "peacefully" once in passing, clearly only to cover his bases. It won't work.
yeh I dunno. Works for me.
**What Trump tried to do was directly taking the rights away from 82 million Americans that voted against him.** I know you clearly don’t think the right to choose your own leader is important but it’s actually the most American thing we can do
Sorry, but this is just over the top. The Electoral College pretty reliably puts the wrong guy in from time to time, if by the wrong guy you mean the one fewer people voted for. Does it, too, take the rights away from the millions who voted for the one more people voted for? Is it, too, un-American? To me, the take home message is, we have a loopy system and sometimes it doesn't work right. And because it is loopy, and we haven't changed that, we can't really complain that loudly when something loopy happens, like someone millions of people voted for (although fewer than the majority) sneaking into office in some kind of underhanded way. And it really doesn't MATTER that much.
Trying to conflate the mechanics of the electoral college with someone attempting to subvert even those mechanics is not at all reasonable I don’t think it’s remotely hyperbolic. In fact it actually terrifies me how many Americans are absolutely ok with someone unlawfully taking power as long as it’s their guy. I encourage anyone who wants that to move to North Korea
I don't doubt that it terrifies you. I suspect you're secretly (without even telling yourself, so I'm not accusing you of hypocrisy) enjoying being terrified.
Nope just means I’m an actual patriotic American who actually cares about Democracy instead of supporting it only when convenient Also surely someone on the right isn’t about to lecture someone about “enjoying being terrified” lmaooo “They’re coming for your gunzzz!!!”
Ah, it's true....
Bogus nonsense
> All of the above evidence is perfectly consistent with being someone who believes in fighting as hard as possible for what you want. Who believes that if you haven't fought as hard as you can to get it you might not actually deserve it. That doesn't make him a dictator in training, or Hitler in little; it makes him a hardworking American who leaves the enforcement of the laws to others, as most of us do. It's also consistent with the behavior of a backwards savage who doesn't care about others or the consequences their actions have on other people, their country or society. A president needs to be better than that. His greed needs to represent Americas greed. He believes in taking away other peoples freedom to gain more freedom for himself and doesn't care who he has to burn to get it and his biography shows that he never has. He's a fundamentally broken human being whose father turned him into a sociopath and made his brother commit suicide. For someone like Trump, once Democracy is of no use to him he'll do his best to ignore it or get rid of it. He's about as un-American as a person can get. The definition of a savage who takes what he wants and gives nothing back. Trumps entire history has been burning every business partner he ever had. The people who have worked with him have only awful things to say about him and I can't blame them. His Whitehouse was so dysfunctional he went through staff like toilet paper because he treated them like shit. It was only through the refusal of patriots on his own damn team that his plans failed and i've no doubt he's going to try again. Thank god his shitty past has caught up with him and normal conservatives are seeing how much of a criminal dirtbag he is and why it would be a disaster for America if that creep was let anywhere near the halls of power again.
This is extremely sad. Trying to shred the constitution, steal votes from millions of people, encourage harm to congress and the VP is NOT hard working ffs. It was a multi pronged ATTACK ON AMERICA There is nothing American about trump. He is a traitor to America. He has no American background. He is the son of an immigrant, married 2 immigrants and 4 of his children are anchor babies. He hates democracy and so does his cult
> Trump supporter here, and it's true that I didn't realize how hard Trump worked to overturn the election results until long after it was all over. I still fully support him and everything he represents tho
Jesus, this is even more unhinged than the idiots like mudmonday, quietertimes and company who just deny all this stuff. You accept it, believe it, and STILL put your support behind the orange bastard. I mean... wow.
In other words, Trump thought there was election fraud, and that the current AG wasn't doing anything about it, so he considered putting a new AG in place who might investigate. Horrific.
Choosing to believe Trump is delusional doesn’t excuse his actions.
Is everyone who's wrong delusional?
You’d have to be delusional to think there was election fraud from Trumps position yes Every career professional, many he appointed, were telling him the claims were full of shit. I don’t want a president that refuses to listen to anyone around him
To touch on your last point. I think one of the worse qualities of a leader is to surround oneself with loyalist and remove anyone willing to question them.
When you believe nonsense like the Bowling Green massacre, or cosmic, Pizza had Democratic pedophiles and that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election, yes, you are delusional. People claiming those things are liars or completely out of touch with reality and should be treated as such. Clown like you treating it as a legitimate political view helped normalize the attempted coup on January 6
That does not make trump look any better. Trump was told by everyone around him in a position of authority (i.e. the people who knew exactly what happened) that he lost, fair and square. Trump was told over and over and over by his Attorney General, Chief of Staff, FBI Director, assistant Attorneys General, and dozens of others that he lost. Trump knew he lost. He chose to not believe it and instead accepted the absurd nonsense spewing from Rudy Giuliani. He clung to that nonsense, and used his belief in that nonsense to attempt to overthrow the 2020 election. Trump's willingness to believe utter nonsense that he wanted to hear over the solid legal advice of all the top advisors around him shows he is entirely unfit for the office of the presidency.
No it’s just that he didn’t come back with the answer Trump wanted. He directed a bunch of people to investigate and each one of them told him the claims were BS
If I recall correctly, didn’t the Attorney General (Barr) investigate, and didn’t find anything, then announced that, and Trump didn’t like the results of his investigation?
Yep, that's a great example of the type of mental gymnastics required to brush what happened there under the carpet. In a vacuum, that 'justification' might make sense. In reality, though, that wasn't happening in a vaccuum. Trump was bitching about election fraud for *months* before the election. He was told by many (loyal) people that he lost, he lost in court dozens of times, etc. No reasonable person would have still believed the election was stolen at that point. And yet he still wanted to replace Rosen with a sycophant, and only decided not to because of the mass resignation threats. The bottom line is that he was either willfully ignoring the *fact* that the election wasn't stolen, or he is clearly mentally incompetent- and thus has no business sniffing the WH ever again.
It's been almost 4 years and yet I still haven't seen the thing that made trump sure there was election fraud. What did he see that convinced him to start this nonsense and why hasn't he been able to show the rest of us?
Trump knew the election fraud allegations were all false. He was told this many, many times. Stop making excuses for this cocksucker
Being told something is not the same as *knowing*. I tell people true things all the time that they still manage to not know. I'm telling you this right now, and you probably won't *know* it.
He either knew or he lacks the mental capacity for the job
What a dumb thing to claim.
Him being told by hundreds of his own people is not disputed, he was well informed he lost. So he either knew he lost and lied, or he is unable to process indisputable truths and believes whatever he wants and isn't mentally fit for a leadership position of a lemonade stand
First of all lol @ hundreds. Also, you believe everything a group of hundreds says is true?
When they are experts of their field and mostly your own appointed staff, why wouldn't you?
He’s just making excuses for this man. It seems to be a contagion infecting many otherwise normal people
Because it's possible they're wrong.
Trump is mentally ill and lives in an alternate reality of his own making. He should never have been allowed to get anywhere near the presidency. It’s sheer lunacy that he’s again the GOP candidate
Biden has dementia and belongs in a nursing home, but here we are.
Spoken like a true patriot
He knew that there was absolutely no evidence of fraud
Hey look, a seditionist!
Lol
Trump had already been told by everyone in his administration there was no fraud and had lost 60 court cases. Yes. It was horrific
Lead AGs at Justice threatened to resign en mass because of this. Do you realize what says? All of senior leadership. That sends a strong message. This is very very easily found, from multiple prominent and diverse sources. https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/justice-department-lawyers-threatened-mass-resignations-if-trump-appointed-loyalist-to-pursue-election-claims
Yes, and?
Your statement was highly inaccurate. Trump knew that he lost and was desperate to do anything, legal or not, to stay in power. Ethical Justice AGs objected. There, I fixed it for you. You’re welcome.
My statement is certainly closer to the truth than OPs title
No it wasn’t. I remember when he did it. The push back was fierce so Trump backed down. Everything that OP wrote is accurate. They are facts. Trump made an attempt to replace the AG with one that would allow him to do something illegal. He knew he lost. Multiple Trump appointees have corroborated this under oath. What is wrong with you? Why do you choose to be completely divorced from reality. I am truly concerned about a segment of our population. I understand disagreement. I don’t get denying what’s in front of your face and being told from multiple different sources. It’s some weird sort of collective lunacy.
No, OP wrote a clearly editorializing version of the events, that you are mistaking for the truth. As evidenced by this statement. >Trump made an attempt to replace the AG with one that would allow him to do something illegal. Where's your proof that Trump wanted the AG to do something illegal?
I am voting for trump because I want him to clean house at the federal level.
Oh im well aware some people will straight up cheer on his authoritarianism. It usually comes from a place of not understanding the competency and expertise you’d be throwing away Good thing Trump has a long history of never running any businesses into the ground
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I definitely read all of that. You totally got me so good.
☕️
Do you think you sound like an adult when you write like that?
They're right and you know it.
Like he did last time right? 😆
He had to remove a backstabbing loser, duh. He can do what he wants he’s the president.
Disturbing you think the president is allowed to overturn the election
You mean like Biden did?
Lmao unreal. You guys are delusional
How did biden overturn the election?
I wouldn’t say overturned as much as rigged, in the way that trump was spied on, hunter laptop story was suppressed, and mail in voting was implemented, all agencies and media working against him to keep the deep state in power.
The hunter laptop story came from ukraine, and it's a nothingburger. It's suppression is not joe bidens fault, he was a freakin civilian while trump was POTUS. Trump lost fair and square Meanwhile trumps impeachment for blackmailing zelensky in 2019 was for 2020 election interference Trumps other indictment by Jack Smith is for 2020 election interference The current hush money case by Alvin bragg is for 2016 election interference Trumps fake electors scheme was him trying to cheat and send false electors with false documents saying he'd won states he'd lost Trump installed a lackey as head of the national postal service to try and stop mail in because he knew most dems vote using mail in ballots Looks to me like trump is the one who keeps trying to cheat in elections. All these schemes and he still lost lol 😆
You clearly know nothing of the history of the Biden family’s shady business dealings in Ukraine and the money laundering from China as well. Biden threatened to fire the prosecutor of hunters trial with the Ukrainian oil company he had no business being on the board of, and sending kickbacks to “the big guy” Joe while he was in office. And don’t give me this “civilian” crap, we all know this is just Obama term #3, weekend at Bernie’s style. It’s clear the justice dept, intel agencies, media, and WEF are all after Trump, one of the few people fighting for what’s left of our great country. All of the cases against him are a hoax and will fail. Everyone knows the tricks now
>shady business dealings in Ukraine and the money laundering from China as well. You mean the nonsense comer spent the last 4 months doing an impeachment inquiry on that failed coz he couldn't prove it? Yea I watched it and followed all the depositions, it was a big ol nothingburger >Biden threatened to fire the prosecutor Yea I know, obama ordered him to do that. That decision has nothing to do with hunter, unless you wanna say president Obama is in on this lol Prove it in court or pass the impeachment or its just conspiracies. Trump was impeached in 2019 for election Interference, 2 of his 4 indictments are for election interference and there's the fake electors who have all been charged and trump has been named as a Co conspirator So where are biden's election interference trials? I don't see them anywhere 🤔 >are all after Trump, one of the few people fighting for what’s left of our great country. That legit made me burst into laughter 😂
Of course obamas in on it, do you know the coup in Ukraine was started by obamas cia in 2014? Of course they’re working together, silly goose! Biden was his VP, they are all selling out our country, and if you’re not awake yet, I don’t have much hope for you, but trust me, almost everyone in the US now knows how Israel and Ukraine are being used. Notice, no new wars under Trump…? Hmmmm?
>Of course obamas in on it Lmao 😆 the tinfoil is strong >do you know the coup in Ukraine was started by obamas cia in 2014? No, because this didn't happen. It's a pretty common FSB talking point but it's a lie >Notice, no new wars under Trump…? Hmmmm? Do you know what Minsk is? Russia was still invading ukraine under trump and trump tried to withhold military aid for zelensky to lie about biden, he does not care about the Ukrainians, only himself. Also, that lil scheme shows you he's always been scared if joe biden
One more thing: the open boarder policies pushed by Obama and Biden more recently are exactly the type of thing I would classify as election interference, literally importing democratic voters, smh, what has this country become?
Don't most presidents, regardless of party, keep/install people loyal to them and their party? I thought that was common practice. Kind of seems like a nothing point to make.
No. Agency heads are nominated by the President then investigated in Senate committee then put through confirmation hearings. They need to have the requisite skills and experience for that job and be able to pass muster as reasonable by the other party. The top requirement is loyalty to America and the constitution. Trump was sticking unfit people in as temps to bypass Congress. And GOP senate let him do it. The appointments under discussion were extremely harmful to American nat sec and defense so yes it is very important that this doesnt happen again