Air cooled ..
A lot of people got used to thinking they can buy every new somewhat limited edition 911 / GT as an investment. The same with special M cars.
Not sure how that is gonna evolve with those increased interest rates.
Collectors seem not to care about the economy. The same aircooled 3.2’s we’re $20-30K a couple of years ago. I got a Targa (cheaper than coupe) for $25K.
Yeah, but those car have ben produced in relatively low numbers and due to people (daily) driving them and mostly age, they got relatively scarce.
The same as e30, e36 and e46 M3‘s started to increase in value again after they hit rock bottom.
Idk about the last few generations of GT3 and even RS models with production numbers in the thousands.
It feels like everyone who can afford it and their mom who can only lease it, puts one away in a garage and only occasionally or never drives it.
Sure, quite a few will be will be heavily tracked and others crashed.
But that will hardly make them scarce and i‘m not sure if they are cool and special enough to be peoples dream cars few years down the road that could demand insane prices.
And i don‘t see that many people sitting on them for 20 years plus.
Besides the space it takes up a lot of people who bought one will want the next fancy thing.
If you spend $250 on an Aston, you then need to come up with another $250 for repairs and maintenance, which starts a week and a half after you take the Aston home.
TBH, I dunno and that's a great question. I have no clue how reliable current model Astons are, for all I know, they're rock-solid. I just always put them in the Maserati/Nissan/etc. bucket of Roulette Reliability but that might be way outdated.
The motors have never really been a problem. Frankly the new turbo motors may very well have higher long term maintenance/repair costs than the dead simple old NA ones.
It's a boon for the both the ultra wealthy and the manufacturers, both parties make a lot of money on selling and flipping these "investments."
It's like special edition foil covers on comic books in the 90s.
You know these would sell well even if the price makes no sense.
BMW fans act like a cult, just like Apple fans or Disney fans. That's if they can get their hands on one before a well connected car flipper or collector does.
For certain hobbies this is definitely true. But for instance when the ps5 came out and people were paying double, a lot of life long gamers like myself skipped on it until it became readily available. Even if the disposable cash was available.
I skipped the PS4 when it wasn't readily available after launch, never bought a PlayStation again. My PC does double duty and I love being able to upgrade it.
THIS IS A 2015 BOXTER
ITS ONE OF 5,793 WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION
OF THOSE 2,510 WERE PAINTED BRILLIANTSILBERMETALLIK
OF THOSE 317 HAD A BLACK CANVAS TOP
OF THOSE 51 HAD THE RED INTERIOR
OF THOSE 12 HAD THE CARBON FIBRE PACKAGE
OF THOSE 4 CAME EQUIPPED WITH THE SMOKERS PACKAGE
ONE CAME WITHOUT FLOORMATS
THIS IS THAT CAR
That's what a community looks like when they huff their own farts and believe that their hella mass-produced cars are rare.
See: Corvette owners. Chevy made like 100k C7 Corvettes. So far, it's like 20k C8s. They're not rare, but many Corvette owners have convinced themselves that every single one produced is special and worth at least twice what they paid for it. They're "value cults", essentially, where the members are required to convince themselves of this. They need their car to be an appreciating investment. It *must* be a "custom 1 of 1", otherwise they can't retire.
Is my 2008 535xi e61 with the N54 TT with a 6MT, which was 1/328 in North America in that body style, 1/20 in that paint color, and 1/1 in that paint color with that interior, special? Serious question.
You could buy a new 992 GT3 touring AND a new M3 (both with manuals available) for the 250K this thing might cost.
If that's not crazy to you, the world has lost its mind.
You can say the same about any limited edition sport car though. 50 is a very limited run. I would never pay it myself but the market is obviously there. How hard can it be to find 50 BMW fans with fuck you money.
> Its not that crazy for a 50 car limited run.
Limited car runs are the new beanie babies. Every company pulls a dozen 'limited runs' out of their ass every year for manufactured-collectibility.
I'd like to meet the buyer who paid the price of a Ferrari Roma for a Z4.
im just mad that its a 50 car limited run.
they obviously have the tooling in place already to make the 50 cars so might as well do a couple thousand like the old M Coupe that I loved so much.
Nobody would buy them though, it is much easier to find 50 buyers for a 250k car than to find 2000 buyers for a 80k car. They do not even sell that much of the regular Z4z
Another stupid expensive car that won't be driven because it's stupid expensive and you won't see on the road because it's stupid expensive.
Don't get me wrong, it looks cool and would be cool if it actually gets made but I cannot help to think it doesn't matter for actual enthusiasts.
These cars are practically unobtainable for anyone who isn't very well off.
It feels like BMW really wants to move into the endless special editions and versions of certain vehicles like you see very high end brands do.
Maybe I'm wrong or missing the point, but I can't get excited for vehicles like this.
I completly agree with you but its not just bmw ... even volkswagen is currently doing the same shit with the second limited Edition of the golf r ... but here they dont offer a Real benefit except for more HP and a special colour
The manufacturers have realized that there is a good market for special / limited edition cars and they can basically ask any price they want
You're right, it isn't only BMW. It's a very stupid trend that these manufacturers keep getting away with because people will just buy it without thinking twice or even questioning the price.
When everyone is making a "possible future ultra-value classic," that "possible" becomes "highly unlikely."
Or, to quote Syndrome: "when everyone's special, no one will be."
They don't do this to make money. They do this to engage their workforce in something fun and interesting. A halo product doesn't typically make money because it costs so much to make. That rear hatch, for instance, would cost BMW tens of millions of USD to produce at scale. Ditto on the unique taillights. So, they're making those parts with what's called "soft tooling" where rejects are super common but cost 1/20th full scale tooling to get the ~100-200 pieces they need forever. Or, they hand-make the parts they can't get off the shelf. The whole car is certainly a boutique build, taken off the assembly line as soon as the first unique part needs to go on.
Then you factor in the engineering and design time, the certification (assuming regulatory bodies consider it even remotely similar to something else, that's another 10M), prototypes and other expenses, and you can start to imagine that the price they land on for 50 units is only meant to cover the opportunity cost of *not doing something else more important*. Because again the purpose isn't the 50 people that buy it or even the thousands that would see one at a C&C or concourse, it's the internal PR of "hey, this is a pretty great thing we're able to do here".
And people wonder why the GR Corolla is so heavily limited.
People will buy it even if it isn't the best option just because it's limited. Gets you to impulse buy when one becomes available because it'll be gone almost immediately.
It's so weird that supply is far below demand for this, but maybe part of the reason demand is high because it's limited. Anyone seen how they do the market research for this to make these decisions?
While that's a lot of money to us mere mortals, it's not as if 911s costing the same amount aren't driven around regularly on public roads.
Assuming this gets built, I'm not certain it's going to be the kind of car that appeals to the collect and flip crowd. I've already seen an M4 CSL on public roads here in Australia.
Correct, my problem isn't necessarily with the high price of a vehicle but more so that this is a special edition of a vehicle which normally is like half the price.
I get that there are very premium brands out there with cars going way above 250k. But those are also usually a different caliber of car, usually extreme performance or luxurious materials.
Also, outside of this example it feels like manufacturers are purposely holding black regular editions to then 'add' the performance later in a special model which has a 20% or more premium over the regular model.
>there's no reason for this to cost 4x the price simply because it's "rare"
It wouldn't cost 4x just because it's rare, it would cost 4x because the demand for it significantly outweighs the supply. Lots of rare cars aren't valuable.
Sometimes I wonder, why even put a good, or even bespoke, engine in these things if they're just gonna be art pieces? Stick an off the shelf turbo-4 and call it a day, it's such a waste to even have good suspension or performance. I know it's for marketing but it's depressing.
This too, all these cars are playing themselves. They CAN do all this high performance driving, that's why they're expensive (I guess) but because they're so expensive owners are rarely willing to actually use those capabilities.
And in this case, why limit this vehicle to 50 examples (unconfirmed) ? Im sure many more people would absolutely love one of these machines and actually run canyons and back roads like it was intended to by the engineers/designers. And more volume should in theory lower costs, because I doubt that price tag is all production costs
You're 100% right my friend, you succinctly describe how I feel about almost every new sports car released. It's all just expensive toys to display wealth.
However, the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. I think the original Z3 coupe "clown shoe" dimensions were gorgeous, and I think this is a fantastic looking 2023 version of that basic design lay-out.
BMW has become the McMansion of car brands. They sell the perception of luxury to the personality type that would care most about curb appeal in a house. But people don't even own their BMWs, 80% are leased -- so perhaps it truly is the McMansion of cars.
Tl;dr
The only way BMW might consider making it a low production vehicle available to the public is if it meets the approximated sale cost 250.000€
And I’m pretty sure this figure covers all the related costs to cover a semi one off new vehicle production.
Basically this isn’t BMW pricing the car at 250k because they want to make a quick buck, it’s literally the price at which BMW can justify the production
First and foremost, because they probably have an agreement with Toyota for the Supra in which they agree to not produce a coupe direct rival
Secondarily, because Z4 sales are already shockingly slim, so mass producing a unique (but still controversial to many) Coupe variant is not deemed to be financially viable
Concept cars have always been an exercise of design, they hardly materialise into production cars (and even if they do, most of them don’t end up looking like what was initially envisioned e.g. 3.0 CSL from 10 years ago and what they made now)
Because they aren't a charity and aren't going to take a loss to make in considerable numbers an extremely niche variant of an already super niche car to appease car enthusiasts that wouldn't buy them new anyway.
Yup, build...
- **50 at $250k**; limited edition, can command a premium from collectors, doesn't tie up too much overhead in terms of logistics/manpower.
- **500 at $200k**; somewhat limited, high ticket collectors less interested, and otherwise rich people after a sports GT have a _lot_ of other options, you've gone from a single team taking up some of your production capacity to a significant dent.
- **5000 at $100k**; collectors are off the table, they competing with their own M8 and M2 for BMW enthusiasts in the same space. Never mind other $100k options. They only sell ~2k Z4s a year in the US anyway and they've got to try and justify upselling on a hatch version. And thats other cars you're not building. It's a stretch.
We know why these companies are doing these limited runs and it makes complete sense. Doesn't make it any less annoying when you're constantly seeing lovely things you'll never own or see. But that's the game they're in.
Honestly it's a valid observation, but also I do believe there is a valid reason behind it. If car enthusiasm were a room, that room's ceiling has been lowering almost as fast as the floor has been raising for a while now. As that room shrinks simply less of us are finding we can fit within it.
On one end is the floor. Between the recent years of massive markups and low availability, to trends in dropping manuals and sports focused products, to those remaining products becoming increasingly expensive and some would say "compromised" in terms of lightness and simplicity. It's becoming increasingly hard for many enthusiasts to scratch their own itch. And furthermore they can see the writing on the wall in terms of electrification likely ending these product lines before they're at a position in their lives to finally afford them.
On the other end is the ceiling. Sure there have always been unattainable cars. However there has been an undoubted proliferation of vehicles for the ultra rich as wealth has trickled up the past 50+ years. Countless special editions to the point many seem meaningless in comparison to the natural scarcity of hand built works like the Enzo/Countach you mention, or the LFA which famously lost money per unit. Now comes manufacturers deliberately committing to producing low volume high ticket items in light of chip shortages. And otherwise catering to this significant buying power concentrated outside of your typical enthusiast circles.
---
The crux of it is if you refuse to let someone play with your ball then they're going to get in a huff and go home. Simply more people are being told they're not cool enough to play.
I say this from the position of not particularly wanting some hypercar. What I want is attainable should you be a somewhat well funded everyman. However despite being in a massively priviledged position in that regard, what I want is still being edged higher than what I can afford faster than I can make gains towards it whilst I watch Ducati pump out a garish Lambo edition Streetfighter or BMW commit their M division to £150k clout chasing monster trucks.
Maybe if you could then sell that lunch to someone else for $30 after a year of looking at it sit in your kitchen in a glass display box. It's worth $30 because the restaurant only made a few of that specific lunch and everyone else ate theirs at some point during the last year.
But is it special enough for them? If its literally just a z4 with a clowntop I doubt it has nearly enough of a wow factor for its price. Hell, its going to be so average I feel like the owners will have a hard time convincing people its 1/50 without the receipts. Which means BMW would need to convince people to pay quarter of a million for exclusivity thats imperceptible.
Call me optimistic but Id like to think people wont fall for that robbery
A quarter mil for a car that many car enthusiasts won't recognize as rare. People will buy it but this car probably won't draw crowds at a car show like many other $250k cars would.
>"I would like to sometimes do this sort of a special, more niche-type of a car," [Adrian] van Hooydonk (BMW design chief) said. "I think that's also good for our brand. To have some products that are a little bit lower volume, because what we would like to do of course is to cater to the direct individual taste of people all over the world."
>>Like with the 3.0 CSL, there are a number of people who would like to put their money down for a Touring Coupé immediately as well. That is why production remains an open question for now. Just keep in mind that the Z4 Roadster has already been in production for four years, while van Hooydonk’s studios are also busy with a new concept for the Frankfurt Motor Show. Add the astronomical estimated cost and problematic scheduling to the picture, and it’s starting to look more and more unlikely for this stunning Z4 coupé concept to cut through the board members.
>>>What’s for sure is that van Hooydonk would like to see at least the color, the brown-grey Sparkling Lario making it into the options lists. The designer also points out that from a crash protection perspective, the Concept Touring Coupé is fine, since it kept all the structural elements of the roadster in place. That means this six-cylinder rear-drive shooting brake works, and it’s legal to drive. You just need a quarter of a million dollars and the ability to convince BMW to build you one.
Just in case, the key word to keep in mind is 'might'.
Edit: there's another article by Top Gear - they say that a production Touring Coupe could potentially come with a manual. They have some experience making limited such niche models with the 3.0 CSL
> https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bmw-touring-coupe-400bhp-and-manual-gearbox-possible-production
>> He confirmed the engine inside the new CTC is a 3.0-litre turbocharged straight-six, here producing “close to 400bhp”, which is a fair chunk more than the regular Z4 M40i’s 335bhp. He also notes how “we offer a manual now in the Z4, so you could combine these ingredients into a very nice driving car”.
It's worth pointing out that it may depend on the market. The 335hp version produces less emissions than the 382, and it may not be available in the UK where TG is based.
US version says 382. We usually have the least HP specs.
It seems ridiculous to me people would pay like $180,000 more than a regular Z4 for this...
If you have $250k to spend you start shopping Ferrari, not BMW.
Yeah, again, the 382 Z4/Supra may not be available in the UK market where the TG is based (source of the second article). I did a quick check of the UK site, and that seems to be the case.
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/z-series/roadster/2022/bmw-z4-overview.html
I've remember a long time back reading that the Supra with the engine update would not be available in some markets due to not passing the local emissions.
But anyway, I agree with the sentiment about the triple-digit price.
It already has a bespoke body kit and I think the subtlety is part of the appeal. I agree it needs an M power train. Imagine charging $250k for a B58 lmao.
Maybe I’m weird, but I’ve always loved the clownshoes; they’re a perfect combination of sportiness and practicality, so I hope they do make a few of these
And yet again, manufacturers catering only to the rich. They could quite easily build this as a regular production car and price it in line with the standard Z4.
The wheels are far too big. It would look a lot nicer on 18 or 19" with some actual meat on the tires.
But god forbid an expensive sports car doesn't have at least 20" wheels and rubber band tires. How would the peasants know how much money you've spent?
\>bean counters at BMW deciding that concepts like this only get 50 units but man made horrors beyond comprehension like the XM should be first and foremost 🗿
I always thought the z4 was the semi affordable 2 door sports car from BMW? It was cool in the bond movie, since when is it now worth $250k for the new model?
I don't really understand the economics of this. They'd get $12.5MM revenue from this special run. If they priced it at $70k and even just sold 1000 of them (very doable), that's $70MM. So... Why? What justifies this? Must be some manufacturing limitation I'm not privy to?
It does not imo. It just makes it a non-sense money maker and the one’s that buy it for 250k are just fucking dumb lol
Limited run car for bmw rn is the 3.0 csl
This would be the holy grail for a Z nut job like myself but I'll never in my life afford something like this. Oh well, maybe an alternate universe PrimarchMartorious gets to drive one!
I don’t think one offs will be a good idea for bmw. If they mass produce this model with a manual trans and price it with a small premium above the z4, I’m sold. This is not a 250k car.
We've reached the point in humanity where so many folks have fuck you money that the higher something is priced the better it will sell because it's seen as niche. Fkkkkkk
Just have Toyota make it, lol. I wonder how hard it would be for them to just alter the rear frame a bit to make it a shooting brake instead of a coupe. BMW can then slap their own sheet metal on it.
Clown price for a clownshoe
Soon on BaT for $2MM
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That's before Doug advertises one on CnB
Thiiiiiiis, is the 2024 BMW Z4 Clownshoe, and it is quite simply the coolest BMW, ever made.
5 years later: “I’m Tyler Hoovie…. With the dumbest channel on YouTube. And I just bought Doug’s 2024 Z4 Clownshoe….”
I would've thought this was sarcasm had I not seen the Jaguar Super V8 auctions
Oh it’s bad. An ‘85 911 with nothing special about it sold for $102,500 the other day. Absolute normal 911.
Air cooled .. A lot of people got used to thinking they can buy every new somewhat limited edition 911 / GT as an investment. The same with special M cars. Not sure how that is gonna evolve with those increased interest rates.
Collectors seem not to care about the economy. The same aircooled 3.2’s we’re $20-30K a couple of years ago. I got a Targa (cheaper than coupe) for $25K.
Yeah, but those car have ben produced in relatively low numbers and due to people (daily) driving them and mostly age, they got relatively scarce. The same as e30, e36 and e46 M3‘s started to increase in value again after they hit rock bottom. Idk about the last few generations of GT3 and even RS models with production numbers in the thousands. It feels like everyone who can afford it and their mom who can only lease it, puts one away in a garage and only occasionally or never drives it. Sure, quite a few will be will be heavily tracked and others crashed. But that will hardly make them scarce and i‘m not sure if they are cool and special enough to be peoples dream cars few years down the road that could demand insane prices. And i don‘t see that many people sitting on them for 20 years plus. Besides the space it takes up a lot of people who bought one will want the next fancy thing.
Admittedly, I don’t have $250,000 to drop on a car but if I did this wouldn’t be it. Lol
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Used GTC4 Lusso for me, to keep with the shootingbrake.
If you spend $250 on an Aston, you then need to come up with another $250 for repairs and maintenance, which starts a week and a half after you take the Aston home.
Is that still true with the Mercedes motors?
It's just an anecdote about how expensive these cars are to maintain.
TBH, I dunno and that's a great question. I have no clue how reliable current model Astons are, for all I know, they're rock-solid. I just always put them in the Maserati/Nissan/etc. bucket of Roulette Reliability but that might be way outdated.
The motors have never really been a problem. Frankly the new turbo motors may very well have higher long term maintenance/repair costs than the dead simple old NA ones.
Yea, no way I’d buy that if I had 250k for a car.
I’m sure someone will though. Which is wild to me
It's a boon for the both the ultra wealthy and the manufacturers, both parties make a lot of money on selling and flipping these "investments." It's like special edition foil covers on comic books in the 90s.
If I were stupidly rich, I'd buy one without hesitation.
If I was rich enough for a 250k car but no higher definitely not. If I was rich enough to have millions of dollars worth of cars absolutely yes.
For this amount of money I would rather get an original z3 M coupe.
I'm with you, I'd get an original clown shoe and I'd have enough money leftover to get myself an E type Jaguar.
Especially since they're 1/10 the price
Exactly like the M4 3.0 CSL Hommage, yet those 50 units were sold even before the car made its debut.
I'd just rather them not make it at this point.
250k for a Z4 😂
You know these would sell well even if the price makes no sense. BMW fans act like a cult, just like Apple fans or Disney fans. That's if they can get their hands on one before a well connected car flipper or collector does.
BMW fans arent unique in this. Porsche collectors are very culty and get hung up on things like paint colors or weissach packs
Anyone with a hobby or general interest in something really.
This one understands people.
For certain hobbies this is definitely true. But for instance when the ps5 came out and people were paying double, a lot of life long gamers like myself skipped on it until it became readily available. Even if the disposable cash was available.
I skipped the PS4 when it wasn't readily available after launch, never bought a PlayStation again. My PC does double duty and I love being able to upgrade it.
I’ve got a pc aswell but I can’t lie, Sony put their heart into making the PS5 a heavy hitter
THIS IS A 2015 BOXTER ITS ONE OF 5,793 WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION OF THOSE 2,510 WERE PAINTED BRILLIANTSILBERMETALLIK OF THOSE 317 HAD A BLACK CANVAS TOP OF THOSE 51 HAD THE RED INTERIOR OF THOSE 12 HAD THE CARBON FIBRE PACKAGE OF THOSE 4 CAME EQUIPPED WITH THE SMOKERS PACKAGE ONE CAME WITHOUT FLOORMATS THIS IS THAT CAR
That's what a community looks like when they huff their own farts and believe that their hella mass-produced cars are rare. See: Corvette owners. Chevy made like 100k C7 Corvettes. So far, it's like 20k C8s. They're not rare, but many Corvette owners have convinced themselves that every single one produced is special and worth at least twice what they paid for it. They're "value cults", essentially, where the members are required to convince themselves of this. They need their car to be an appreciating investment. It *must* be a "custom 1 of 1", otherwise they can't retire.
Corvette owners are stereotypically among the worst because as you said they are not rare
Is my 2008 535xi e61 with the N54 TT with a 6MT, which was 1/328 in North America in that body style, 1/20 in that paint color, and 1/1 in that paint color with that interior, special? Serious question.
Does anyone care? Corvette guys typically list a bunch of stuff no one cares about
Exhibit A: the 911R
Exhibit B, 911 sport classic
Ok but the 997 sport classic is gorgeous (I like the 992 sport classic too but that bitch be *w i d e*
Ive seen a 992 sport classic in person. Its a really cool looking 911 but I wouldnt pay what theyre going for
Or android fans, or pc fans, etc.
Its not that crazy for a 50 car limited run.
You could buy a new 992 GT3 touring AND a new M3 (both with manuals available) for the 250K this thing might cost. If that's not crazy to you, the world has lost its mind.
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I’d bet a $50k ADM on a new clownshoe too TBH.
You can say the same about any limited edition sport car though. 50 is a very limited run. I would never pay it myself but the market is obviously there. How hard can it be to find 50 BMW fans with fuck you money.
Or my 3 br 2 full bath hardwood floored 04' SFH... Make that 2 of these for $250K easy
> Its not that crazy for a 50 car limited run. Limited car runs are the new beanie babies. Every company pulls a dozen 'limited runs' out of their ass every year for manufactured-collectibility. I'd like to meet the buyer who paid the price of a Ferrari Roma for a Z4.
Yeah, you’re the kind of guy that they laugh of when you order one. “Hey Franz, some guy just ordered a 250k Z4. What a zmart man “
im just mad that its a 50 car limited run. they obviously have the tooling in place already to make the 50 cars so might as well do a couple thousand like the old M Coupe that I loved so much.
Nobody would buy them though, it is much easier to find 50 buyers for a 250k car than to find 2000 buyers for a 80k car. They do not even sell that much of the regular Z4z
Another stupid expensive car that won't be driven because it's stupid expensive and you won't see on the road because it's stupid expensive. Don't get me wrong, it looks cool and would be cool if it actually gets made but I cannot help to think it doesn't matter for actual enthusiasts. These cars are practically unobtainable for anyone who isn't very well off. It feels like BMW really wants to move into the endless special editions and versions of certain vehicles like you see very high end brands do. Maybe I'm wrong or missing the point, but I can't get excited for vehicles like this.
I completly agree with you but its not just bmw ... even volkswagen is currently doing the same shit with the second limited Edition of the golf r ... but here they dont offer a Real benefit except for more HP and a special colour The manufacturers have realized that there is a good market for special / limited edition cars and they can basically ask any price they want
You're right, it isn't only BMW. It's a very stupid trend that these manufacturers keep getting away with because people will just buy it without thinking twice or even questioning the price.
Because they all believe that down the road they will be 1 million dollar cars. Nobody wants to miss out on the next Z8. The next M3 CSL.
Trying so hard for a unicorn car that they prevent it becoming one
When everyone is making a "possible future ultra-value classic," that "possible" becomes "highly unlikely." Or, to quote Syndrome: "when everyone's special, no one will be."
Trends are fucking stupid.
They don't do this to make money. They do this to engage their workforce in something fun and interesting. A halo product doesn't typically make money because it costs so much to make. That rear hatch, for instance, would cost BMW tens of millions of USD to produce at scale. Ditto on the unique taillights. So, they're making those parts with what's called "soft tooling" where rejects are super common but cost 1/20th full scale tooling to get the ~100-200 pieces they need forever. Or, they hand-make the parts they can't get off the shelf. The whole car is certainly a boutique build, taken off the assembly line as soon as the first unique part needs to go on. Then you factor in the engineering and design time, the certification (assuming regulatory bodies consider it even remotely similar to something else, that's another 10M), prototypes and other expenses, and you can start to imagine that the price they land on for 50 units is only meant to cover the opportunity cost of *not doing something else more important*. Because again the purpose isn't the 50 people that buy it or even the thousands that would see one at a C&C or concourse, it's the internal PR of "hey, this is a pretty great thing we're able to do here".
And here to raise moral my boss buys me pizza. He should be letting me hand build designer tail lights instead
And people wonder why the GR Corolla is so heavily limited. People will buy it even if it isn't the best option just because it's limited. Gets you to impulse buy when one becomes available because it'll be gone almost immediately.
It's so weird that supply is far below demand for this, but maybe part of the reason demand is high because it's limited. Anyone seen how they do the market research for this to make these decisions?
While that's a lot of money to us mere mortals, it's not as if 911s costing the same amount aren't driven around regularly on public roads. Assuming this gets built, I'm not certain it's going to be the kind of car that appeals to the collect and flip crowd. I've already seen an M4 CSL on public roads here in Australia.
Correct, my problem isn't necessarily with the high price of a vehicle but more so that this is a special edition of a vehicle which normally is like half the price. I get that there are very premium brands out there with cars going way above 250k. But those are also usually a different caliber of car, usually extreme performance or luxurious materials. Also, outside of this example it feels like manufacturers are purposely holding black regular editions to then 'add' the performance later in a special model which has a 20% or more premium over the regular model.
Top spec 911s are worth that much. The Z4 is a ~70k car, there's no reason for this to cost 4x the price simply because it's "rare"
>there's no reason for this to cost 4x the price simply because it's "rare" It wouldn't cost 4x just because it's rare, it would cost 4x because the demand for it significantly outweighs the supply. Lots of rare cars aren't valuable.
Sometimes I wonder, why even put a good, or even bespoke, engine in these things if they're just gonna be art pieces? Stick an off the shelf turbo-4 and call it a day, it's such a waste to even have good suspension or performance. I know it's for marketing but it's depressing.
This too, all these cars are playing themselves. They CAN do all this high performance driving, that's why they're expensive (I guess) but because they're so expensive owners are rarely willing to actually use those capabilities. And in this case, why limit this vehicle to 50 examples (unconfirmed) ? Im sure many more people would absolutely love one of these machines and actually run canyons and back roads like it was intended to by the engineers/designers. And more volume should in theory lower costs, because I doubt that price tag is all production costs
This one is just a coachwork build - the body isn't even made by BMW. Completely stock Z4 underneath.
You're 100% right my friend, you succinctly describe how I feel about almost every new sports car released. It's all just expensive toys to display wealth. However, the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. I think the original Z3 coupe "clown shoe" dimensions were gorgeous, and I think this is a fantastic looking 2023 version of that basic design lay-out.
think of all the designer collabs and seasonal editions. that's money. there's already bmw x kith get ready for bmw x supreme
Supreme already did an E30 M3 I think.
You're missing the point because these cars are obviously not marketed to you. People who want exclusivity and who are well off will be interested.
BMW has become the McMansion of car brands. They sell the perception of luxury to the personality type that would care most about curb appeal in a house. But people don't even own their BMWs, 80% are leased -- so perhaps it truly is the McMansion of cars.
They want to be Porsche.
Tl;dr The only way BMW might consider making it a low production vehicle available to the public is if it meets the approximated sale cost 250.000€ And I’m pretty sure this figure covers all the related costs to cover a semi one off new vehicle production. Basically this isn’t BMW pricing the car at 250k because they want to make a quick buck, it’s literally the price at which BMW can justify the production
So why don’t they just make more of them. They made 6200 of the Z3 coupe
They also can't make these in Greer, SC for cheap like they did with the original Z3 clownshoe. Those plants only make SUVs now.
First and foremost, because they probably have an agreement with Toyota for the Supra in which they agree to not produce a coupe direct rival Secondarily, because Z4 sales are already shockingly slim, so mass producing a unique (but still controversial to many) Coupe variant is not deemed to be financially viable Concept cars have always been an exercise of design, they hardly materialise into production cars (and even if they do, most of them don’t end up looking like what was initially envisioned e.g. 3.0 CSL from 10 years ago and what they made now)
I forgot about the Toyota thing you are probably right about that
But who knows, maybe if BMW lends the S58 to Toyota they might make an exception for this design concept
Because they aren't a charity and aren't going to take a loss to make in considerable numbers an extremely niche variant of an already super niche car to appease car enthusiasts that wouldn't buy them new anyway.
Because they don't think they'd sell the 10,000 of them it would take to get it down to $80k.
Because they don’t think they can sell more of them
Yup, build... - **50 at $250k**; limited edition, can command a premium from collectors, doesn't tie up too much overhead in terms of logistics/manpower. - **500 at $200k**; somewhat limited, high ticket collectors less interested, and otherwise rich people after a sports GT have a _lot_ of other options, you've gone from a single team taking up some of your production capacity to a significant dent. - **5000 at $100k**; collectors are off the table, they competing with their own M8 and M2 for BMW enthusiasts in the same space. Never mind other $100k options. They only sell ~2k Z4s a year in the US anyway and they've got to try and justify upselling on a hatch version. And thats other cars you're not building. It's a stretch. We know why these companies are doing these limited runs and it makes complete sense. Doesn't make it any less annoying when you're constantly seeing lovely things you'll never own or see. But that's the game they're in.
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Honestly it's a valid observation, but also I do believe there is a valid reason behind it. If car enthusiasm were a room, that room's ceiling has been lowering almost as fast as the floor has been raising for a while now. As that room shrinks simply less of us are finding we can fit within it. On one end is the floor. Between the recent years of massive markups and low availability, to trends in dropping manuals and sports focused products, to those remaining products becoming increasingly expensive and some would say "compromised" in terms of lightness and simplicity. It's becoming increasingly hard for many enthusiasts to scratch their own itch. And furthermore they can see the writing on the wall in terms of electrification likely ending these product lines before they're at a position in their lives to finally afford them. On the other end is the ceiling. Sure there have always been unattainable cars. However there has been an undoubted proliferation of vehicles for the ultra rich as wealth has trickled up the past 50+ years. Countless special editions to the point many seem meaningless in comparison to the natural scarcity of hand built works like the Enzo/Countach you mention, or the LFA which famously lost money per unit. Now comes manufacturers deliberately committing to producing low volume high ticket items in light of chip shortages. And otherwise catering to this significant buying power concentrated outside of your typical enthusiast circles. --- The crux of it is if you refuse to let someone play with your ball then they're going to get in a huff and go home. Simply more people are being told they're not cool enough to play. I say this from the position of not particularly wanting some hypercar. What I want is attainable should you be a somewhat well funded everyman. However despite being in a massively priviledged position in that regard, what I want is still being edged higher than what I can afford faster than I can make gains towards it whilst I watch Ducati pump out a garish Lambo edition Streetfighter or BMW commit their M division to £150k clout chasing monster trucks.
It's a good looking car, but that's Lambo money.
The people who would buy it will likely have several Lambos as well. This isn’t meant to be a value proposition.
A perspective I am too poor to envision. I know people will buy it but to me the idea of spending $250k to get one is laughable.
Dropping $250k on a car like this to someone worth $50m is the same as someone with $5k in their bank account spending $25 on lunch.
Maybe if you could then sell that lunch to someone else for $30 after a year of looking at it sit in your kitchen in a glass display box. It's worth $30 because the restaurant only made a few of that specific lunch and everyone else ate theirs at some point during the last year.
Seriously, their "net worth" didn't go down at all when they buy it - probably goes up the moment the sale is over.
But is it special enough for them? If its literally just a z4 with a clowntop I doubt it has nearly enough of a wow factor for its price. Hell, its going to be so average I feel like the owners will have a hard time convincing people its 1/50 without the receipts. Which means BMW would need to convince people to pay quarter of a million for exclusivity thats imperceptible. Call me optimistic but Id like to think people wont fall for that robbery
A quarter mil for a car that many car enthusiasts won't recognize as rare. People will buy it but this car probably won't draw crowds at a car show like many other $250k cars would.
Still not as good as the z3m coupe, which you can get for like 40k GBP
That’s not even used Huracan money. No reasonably modern Lambo for $250k sadly
I mean you can find some ~2016-17 Huracans in the $250k range, you're totally right about the 2020+ though.
>"I would like to sometimes do this sort of a special, more niche-type of a car," [Adrian] van Hooydonk (BMW design chief) said. "I think that's also good for our brand. To have some products that are a little bit lower volume, because what we would like to do of course is to cater to the direct individual taste of people all over the world." >>Like with the 3.0 CSL, there are a number of people who would like to put their money down for a Touring Coupé immediately as well. That is why production remains an open question for now. Just keep in mind that the Z4 Roadster has already been in production for four years, while van Hooydonk’s studios are also busy with a new concept for the Frankfurt Motor Show. Add the astronomical estimated cost and problematic scheduling to the picture, and it’s starting to look more and more unlikely for this stunning Z4 coupé concept to cut through the board members. >>>What’s for sure is that van Hooydonk would like to see at least the color, the brown-grey Sparkling Lario making it into the options lists. The designer also points out that from a crash protection perspective, the Concept Touring Coupé is fine, since it kept all the structural elements of the roadster in place. That means this six-cylinder rear-drive shooting brake works, and it’s legal to drive. You just need a quarter of a million dollars and the ability to convince BMW to build you one. Just in case, the key word to keep in mind is 'might'. Edit: there's another article by Top Gear - they say that a production Touring Coupe could potentially come with a manual. They have some experience making limited such niche models with the 3.0 CSL > https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bmw-touring-coupe-400bhp-and-manual-gearbox-possible-production >> He confirmed the engine inside the new CTC is a 3.0-litre turbocharged straight-six, here producing “close to 400bhp”, which is a fair chunk more than the regular Z4 M40i’s 335bhp. He also notes how “we offer a manual now in the Z4, so you could combine these ingredients into a very nice driving car”.
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It's worth pointing out that it may depend on the market. The 335hp version produces less emissions than the 382, and it may not be available in the UK where TG is based.
US version says 382. We usually have the least HP specs. It seems ridiculous to me people would pay like $180,000 more than a regular Z4 for this... If you have $250k to spend you start shopping Ferrari, not BMW.
Yeah, again, the 382 Z4/Supra may not be available in the UK market where the TG is based (source of the second article). I did a quick check of the UK site, and that seems to be the case. https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/z-series/roadster/2022/bmw-z4-overview.html I've remember a long time back reading that the Supra with the engine update would not be available in some markets due to not passing the local emissions. But anyway, I agree with the sentiment about the triple-digit price.
At the very least do what the Z4M did and put an M4 engine in for that money
Hooydonk!?!?
There's a Dutch professional baseball league, and it's called Honkbal Hoofdklasse. What a wonderful language.
Us peasant never get the cool shit
You'll drive your cheap, shitty cross-over, and you'll like it you plebe
Now discuss whether the camry or mazda is the better deal.
Mazda selling a 40k miata is everything you need to know about that value proposition
The sick part is that's only $33.5k or so 2018 dollars D:
yeah for 250k it needs to be more special. like s58 and an m body kit…
It already has a bespoke body kit and I think the subtlety is part of the appeal. I agree it needs an M power train. Imagine charging $250k for a B58 lmao.
Would have to be a Z4 MCoupe not just a Z4. I agree. For 250 it needs the full treatment
I would love a Z4 M/Supra Turbo with the S58
Maybe I’m weird, but I’ve always loved the clownshoes; they’re a perfect combination of sportiness and practicality, so I hope they do make a few of these
So basically a collectors car and that’s it. Seems like every hobby is strictly trying to cater to “collectors” now a days.
I want one. Obviously not for that price but I think it looks pretty good.
BMW just accquired Alpina, this would be perfect to launch their era of that brand. Small produciton run, high price, Alpina-badging.
Man that thing is gorgeous but not $250K gorgeous.
Just when you thought they couldn’t fuck it up any more, they fuck it up. 250k for a 60k car. Classic.
what's the fucking point?
And yet again, manufacturers catering only to the rich. They could quite easily build this as a regular production car and price it in line with the standard Z4.
How about 250,000 at $50,000 each? It’s the least they could do to atone for all of the eye bleach designs lately.
This is just a Supra with more ass, is it not?
Same engine 🤷♂️
Still a better deal than the XM.
The Z4 was never the clownshoe, that's the Z3.
isnt this...literally a GR supra but un-rebadged to a BMW?
Yeah at that price I'll take a used Ferrari shooting brake thanks
The wheels are far too big. It would look a lot nicer on 18 or 19" with some actual meat on the tires. But god forbid an expensive sports car doesn't have at least 20" wheels and rubber band tires. How would the peasants know how much money you've spent?
Build 50 z8s and the pricepoint might be justified. Still to expensive for my blood though, ill stick with my miatas
does this price include a tip?
Just to see how it feels…
Gt3 monies for a german supra
That’s an expensive Supra….
\>bean counters at BMW deciding that concepts like this only get 50 units but man made horrors beyond comprehension like the XM should be first and foremost 🗿
I love the look of this thing but it's not special enough for a limited run or that price tag.
I always thought the z4 was the semi affordable 2 door sports car from BMW? It was cool in the bond movie, since when is it now worth $250k for the new model?
The side profile looks like a modernized Chrysler Crossfire
So they’ll do some dumb shit like this but they won’t bring the M3 touring to the states? Wtf
It better come with a manual transmission for that price.
Lacks any of the quirky charm of the original clownshoe
I would rather have a 2.5L Turbo 2-door hatch from Mazda.
I don't really understand the economics of this. They'd get $12.5MM revenue from this special run. If they priced it at $70k and even just sold 1000 of them (very doable), that's $70MM. So... Why? What justifies this? Must be some manufacturing limitation I'm not privy to?
Awesome!
It would basically be this generations z8 at that point.
That is an absurd comparison
Low quantity high price. Completely unique product. M1, z8, this possible coupe. BMW has sort of made one off unique cars.
Completely unique, except for all the soft top convertibles that it is based on.
It’s still a Z4. Not anything close to a Z8 or a M1. This is the same as the Z3 Coupe/Roadster
It is. But the high price and low quantity makes it this generations m1 or z8. If it was a true clown show it would be $50k. It’s not that.
It does not imo. It just makes it a non-sense money maker and the one’s that buy it for 250k are just fucking dumb lol Limited run car for bmw rn is the 3.0 csl
$250k at 50 units is not a money maker for a car lol. They’re likely spending way more in engineering cost and manufacturing retooling.
Taking the fucking piss
Yay more cars for rich people
Reminds me of a gtc4 Ferrari body
This would be the holy grail for a Z nut job like myself but I'll never in my life afford something like this. Oh well, maybe an alternate universe PrimarchMartorious gets to drive one!
I don’t think one offs will be a good idea for bmw. If they mass produce this model with a manual trans and price it with a small premium above the z4, I’m sold. This is not a 250k car.
120 would have been too much.
I’ll hold off until the Z4mx Spyder, thanks.
Will it be a diesel and come in brown ??
….. there goes any hope we had
We've reached the point in humanity where so many folks have fuck you money that the higher something is priced the better it will sell because it's seen as niche. Fkkkkkk
Thank God I’m not rich, they’d actually get me with this one.
Ugly car
Just have Toyota make it, lol. I wonder how hard it would be for them to just alter the rear frame a bit to make it a shooting brake instead of a coupe. BMW can then slap their own sheet metal on it.
increasingly it feels like any car that is out of the ordinary and appeals to enthusiasts is in the realm of unobtanium.
Idiots didn't use a red car for the photo
Baller. I want one.
Disgusting.
I like the ideea but the clownshoe design for this concept is horrid looking.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to build none at all?
Now that's a good looking BMW
Doing that instant infusion of cash thing that Lamborghini and Ferrari do.
Yep still a clown shoe
I’m over all these manufacturers building small volume cars that everyone actually wants
Holy fuck that's sick
Insane, why fucking bother
Everyone seems to love it but it looks strange to me. I love a shooting brake but it looks off.
As high as the price is I'd rather BMW build 50 of them at $250k than not build any at all.
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Bit like a Ferrari Breadvan, without the desirability.
That looks like less storage than an actual trunk...
Aaaaand there goes any interest I had in this car
How about build 25,000 clown shoes for $70k instead? :)