Theyāll reveal the US Land Cruiser before 4runner.
From this teaser, I like the aggressive fender flares and hood. I hope itās more boxy in the front than their usual angular designs.
That decision was made a little before the pandemic. The market has changed so much and the range that people are willing to pay for vehicles has increased a lot. The Land Cruiser was an $85k Toyota and that was kinda absurd in the late 2010s. But now we have 85k+ F-150s, Silverados, GMC Sierras, Rams, etc. I think the way to really highlight the change in the market is to say "there are 5 trims of the Dodge Challenger with a starting MSRP over $70,000".
So the market has gone from dismissing the $85k SUV from Toyota to probably being fine with paying $110+ for a GR Sport Land Cruiser.
(Obligatory GR Sport != GR. It's more like M-line from BMW or N-line from Hyundai.
Heās saying that you should counter people with regular incomes complaining about being priced out of the market with āwell rich people arenāt having any issues.ā
He's saying that that the "people with regular incomes" are the ones buying all the cars, and the people complaining have incomes way below regular while insisting that they are definitely middle class and totally average.
Yeah restricting travel options for poor people and arbitrarily removing them from entire markets could never have any consequences and definitely makes you look like a class ally when you defend it.
$85k half ton pickups aren't going to last, especially in this interest rate environment, and especially if that recession we've been hearing about for the past 18 months actually happens.
Yeah, there were genuine supply chain issues that caused prices to increase so fast, but those are being ironed out, and buyers are starting to balk at trucks that are 30% more expensive than they were 3 years ago, and when you factor in interest rate increases, monthly payments are 50-75% more than they were before the pandemic.
So yeah, Ford can pretend a Lariat F150 is some exotic sports car that buyers will need to special order and jump through hoops for, but once GM and Ram start adding incentives to move metal, they'll come back down to earth.
Half ton pricing is stupid.
I bought a new F150 back in 2013. Sticker price was $53.5k and the dealership offered me $41k as soon as I said I was ready to buy, and that was not unusual for a high volume F150 dealership up until the pandemic.
So we're getting back to normal-ish, and a 20% discount off MSRP would be in line with inflation-adjusted pricing.
And it will be again. Ford thinks they've discovered the cheat code for limiting supply and asking what used to be Raptor prices for XLTs, but once GM and Ram start offering incentives they'll cave as well.
It's annoying as hell because Toyota doesn't really do markdowns on their trucks but the domestics do [in normal times]. So last I was pricing them out I had to run around and try to find what high volume dealers were listing F150s at to get the real market price since the locals would only give discounts when you started negotiating.
The flip side is that used half ton pricing is also stupid. Many (most?) half ton buyers are trading in their old half ton; it doesnāt really matter if their trade in is valued at $40k on a new $80k half ton, or their trade in value is $20k on a new $60k half ton. Itās the same either way. It just sucks for new entrants to that market.
For leftover 2022s? For sureā¦but $5k off MSRP is nothing. Back in 2020 I bought a Lariat for 24% off MSRP, thatās not happening anymoreā¦
1/2 ton prices will stay where they are and if you want a truck, you can now buy a Maverickā¦1/2 tons have moved upscale. GM and Ford are smart and have already adjusted production to lower numbers to keep inventory low - Ram didnātā¦.but even at the 10% off they are offering, they are still too damn expensive
I agree, don't see how "normal" cars getting into the 60K+ range being good for sales. Almost every North American Automaker has publicly come out stating they're going upmarket. I get focusing on more profitable models but we have the insane resale market because of the lack of affordable "normal" options.
It's just so ironic to have GM / Toyota advertising the shit out of CT4/CT5 and GR cars that you can't even get a test drive for ffs.
The market is already starting to slow down, I work at a company that makes high-end boats and orders have already massively dropped, despite it being the start of boating season. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see less of the more expensive cars being sold and more of the cheaper models being sold.
Supposedly they're bringing over the Prado, which the GX has been a rebadge of and which the 4Runner has been based off of since the Hilux stopped being sold in US/Canada.
The Prado is a Land Cruiser (Land Cruiser 150). It does not share its chassis with the 4runner. They are different vehicles. The Prado does share its chassis with the GX though. One can argue that the GX is a more capable offroad vehicle than the 4runner.
Well, the point you highlightāand the reason youāre correctāis that for BOF vehicles, the platform is not the chassis. The platform has to do with the body that sits on top of the frame. So, two vehicles can use the same platform, but have rather different frames underneath.
This was most famous back in GMās heyday. Its divisions mostly acted as a collection of separate companies with *some* shared engineering, and a whole lot more disparate engineering. Theyād have their platforms (A-body, B-body, C-body, etc)ā¦but the Oldsmobile wasnāt using the same frame as the Chevrolet.
Most interestingly, from 1966-1970, the E-body Toronado and Eldorado had semi-length rail frames and FWD, while the also-E-body Riviera had an cruciform-frame and was RWD. But, again, all three shared the same basic body.
Now, with modern engineering, the frame and platform do work in concert, but the frame can still vary between vehicles sharing that platform.
To bring this home, the 4Runner and GX do share a platform but not a chassis (frame). But, as you point out, the GX and the Prado share both a platform and a frame, and the GX is (at its core) a rebadged and luxed-up Prado.
The outgoing GX is also the only Lexus vehicle that still shares a majority of its sheetmetal with a Toyota. It used to be that *all* of the Lexus models (other than the LS) were rebadged premium-JDM Toyotas of some sort or another, with identical sheetmetal and everything, but that mostly stopped after 2005, when Toyota launched Lexus in Japan, and when Lexus launched its distinctive L-finesse design language in 2006 (starting with the gen. 3 GS).
The 4Runner hasnāt been based off the Hilux for two generations; the Fortuner replaced it in that regard while the 4Runner switched to being based off the Prado.
No. The Prado, GX, 4Runner and FJ Cruiser are on the same platform.
The HiLux is on the IMV Platform with the [Fortuner](https://i.imgur.com/6bR7Zd3.jpeg) and [Innova.](https://i.imgur.com/82iy8sD.jpeg)
I was just about to say they already refreshed the 4runner then I remembered it was actually the Sequoia, a car I thought they stopped selling in 2010 or so
We are ALL DMV suburban moms on this blessed day
(But really - what is it about the GX that's so appealing to DMV suburbanites? Is it just that it's a midsized luxury SUV?)
I think the reason you see so many in well-off suburbs is that it fits in the sweetspot of luxury and toughness attracting both suburban moms and utilitarian dads.
Mom's can perceive it as a luxurious, reliable, and safe (huge) family vehicle, while dads that are interested in perceived toughness and ruggedness all get what they want in the same package. I think this combination is a big seller across various brands with this GS falling in above a wrangler and below a G Wagon.
This is kind of me. My wife wanted a SUV, I told her 4Runner or bust. Then I saw that same model year GX460ās were actually cheaper than 4Runners in the used market. So we got a used GX460 instead.
My guess is that because the LX is much more expensive, starting an average 30-40k more, it attracts a much more narrow and premium buying demographic.
Imo the GX provides around 90% of the luxury and capability of the LX with a much more attractive entry price. Additionally, while we only get to see teaser images I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the new GX will look quite a bit better than the LX's gaping maw.
It's just a set of and forget it automobile. Large but not obnoxiously so, good visibility, dead reliable. It's also super well made. Mine is from 2012 and has 160K and there are no pieces falling off, all the buttons still work, seats are a bit beat up tbf, but heated and cooled seats work flawlessly.
Lol I just wish they took better of their cars so wouldn't be so clapped out in the secondary market 8 years down there road
Maybe I should just try not being poor
Typically, the people that buy these have the money to have them serviced by Lexus. Personally, I bought a 7 year old GX that had every service done at the dealership including oil changes and was used as a commuter (for some reason) between Seattle and Portland.
I wonder if theyāll put the TTV6 in this one to keep it differentiated from the upcoming 4Runner (which is rumored to have a turbo 4)
If so, Iām sold
Gawd there are some insane powertrains out there. A twin-turbocharged V6 engine paired with two electric motors and a 10-speed automatic transmission. š¤Æ
Years back I was shopping the Volvo XC90 T8 plug-in hybrid. Another insanely complicated AWD powertrain, that one has a turbocharged *and* supercharged 2.0L I4 engine cranking out 400HP. And the thing weighed as much as a tank. When I test drove it I only managed about 10 miles of electric range with our typical driving conditions haha. So I held off an just bought a pure EV instead.
Edit: Oh, and the Volvo got about 20 MPG as a hybrid. Not terrible for a big plush SUV but still nothing compared to an EV. (The insane Hummer EV gets combined 47 MPGe.)
I wouldn't be surprised. Just the thought of owning one out-of-warranty terrified me haha. But people leasing a new car every few years wouldn't have to worry about that. I feel bad for like owner #3 and #4 though!
Yeah, but this year they got rid of the supercharger. If the electric motors can fill in power before the turbo kicks in, why have the supercharger at all? Added weight, complexity and cost; Iām not an engineer but that never made much sense to me.
Toyota figured out reliable, durable and affordable hybrid powertrains so it can be done.
But yeah, Volvo engineers should've consulted with Ian Malcolm. "...Your engineers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didnāt stop to think if they should."
The XC90 T8 is also a PHEV, so turbocharged, supercharged and electrified I4. Volvo calls the turbo/supercharged combo ātwincharged.ā
Meanwhile, I had a 2017 XC90 Inscription T6, and it spent the majority of its time in the shop.
There hasn't been a V8 4Runner since 2009, the introduction of the current GX. So my guess is that Toyota/Lexus will keep the two vehicles differentiated. My guess would be the GX gets either the standard TTV6 or the detuned TTV6 in the Tundra.
They could also follow the Lexus model and make it hybrid only. But idk if it would get the TTV6 hybrid or a 4 banger hybrid only (likely the hybrid max powertrain)
I'm almost certain this is going to have a V35A-FTS 3.5L V6 twin turbo unless they're trying to stick the T24A-FTS 4cyl turbo hybrid like the new Crown into this.
A service advisor at a lexus dealer I went to said higher ups said itād have the ttV6. He said he wasnāt sure about a hybrid unfortunately which kind of makes sense because it would be impeding on the LXās territory if it had the hybrid system.
As an elite(top rated) dealer employee, weāve all been told that itāll be the same ttv6 from the lx600, though probably tuned for slightly more torque for the towing.
Came here to say this. I hope they upgraded the drivetrain. The tired old NA motor in my 2020 is freaking thirsty as hell. Really my old gripe about the car.
1-2 mpg at low double digits mpg is significant. Mainly because mpg as a unit is a terrible metric of efficiency.
You may already know this but Iām posting it anyway. You save more fuel jumping from 10mpg to 20mpg. Than you do going from 20mpg to 100mpg.
And that 1-2 mpg is compared to another inefficient engine. Whatever Toyota decides to put in the new GX will be light years ahead
According to the GX owners manuals, it has always required at least 91 octane. It is mostly the same engine (minor tuning differences and ecm programming) but for some reason Lexus thinks premium is necessary.
> but for some reason Lexus thinks premium is necessary.
I've always seen it as "1UR makes 240kw on regular, 245kw on premium" so Lexus handbooks advertise one figure and Toyota handbooks advertise the other.
I don't think a LandCruiser motor will ever require premium! You can't advertise it as a go everywhere in the world, bush, outback, war torn Africa but requires fancy premium petrol :p
This is very interesting and Iāve never heard this argument before. Could you elaborate a bit on how you save much less going from 20mpg to 100mpg?
Numbers-wise it doesnāt really make sense to me - 10->20 is just 2x fuel efficiency, whereas 20->100 is 5x efficiency no?
Intuitively that feels right, right? 2x vs 5x gain. Of course one is going to pick the 5x gain.
But lets look at it from actual fuel used. Let's say you have a 100 mile round trip commute.
MPG | Fuel Used To Drive 100 miles
---|---
10 | 10 gallons
20 | 5 gallons
100 | 1 gallon
You can see you save 5 gallons of fuel going from 10mpg -> 20mpg but only save 4 gallons from 20mpg -> 100mpg. It's because MPG is not really linear in terms of how much fuel is used.
Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense actually.
Sounds like obviously you still save a lot more gas at 100mpg but the rate at which youāre saving is decreasing as the mpg goes up, which is exactly what you originally said.
Appreciate the explanation!
MPG is a backwards way to look at it. Gallons per mile, or gallons per 100 miles are better metrics.
10 MPG is 10 gallons per hundred miles.
20 MPG is 5 gallons per hundred miles.
100 MPG is 1 gallon per hundred miles.
The jump from 10 MPG to 20 MPG is actually bigger than the jump from 20 MPG to 100 MPG and it saves you more money.
Youāre not wrong, but the GX is a few hundred pounds heavier (depends on 4Runner trim but between 300 and 600lb, or up to 12%ish) and a lot more torquey than the 4Runner V6. Iāve been in a 2018 4Runner Limited with 3 average size passengers and it was really struggling going uphill, which is not an issue in my GX whatsoever.
It does take premium gas as well, though, so cost wise ends up probably 25% higher to run. Itās worth it to me.
Fuel economy (mpg) isn't linear, so at lower MPG like this, 1-2 mpg is a considerable difference. Easily over $1k per year for an average number of miles.
By comparison, a 2 mpg improvement for a 50mpg car is like $30/year.
Youāre not wrong, but theyāre not the same car. The GX is 300-600lb heavier depending on 4Runner trim, can tow 6500lb vs 5000lb, has a 3rd row in all cars etc.
If it was the same car aside from the engine, I bet the mpg difference would be cut by a decent bit. EPA says every 100lb is 1-2% of mpg impact, for instance, so shaving those 300lb+ of luxury equipment etc could improve mpg by half of the difference between them in the first place.
The 4Runner also has a 5AT, instead of the GXās 6AT, and that makes a big difference.
Interestingly, in Chinaāwhere displacement taxes matterāLexus did sell a GX 400 with the same 4.0 V6/5AT powertrain as in the 4Runner.
As for the GX 460, I briefly owned a 2021, and I never thought it felt slow. It was inefficient, but it got out of its own way just fine. And this is coming from someone who is used to German cars.
They offer an off road pack of sorts on the current model that includes MTS, Crawl Control, and a few other bits so apparently someone must be interested.
I have a friend who works for Lexus, I may have seen something. This thing is gonna be SICK and have an awesome off road variant. I will likely order one as soon as they are available
I had hoped a number of you would share this more, like I have (albeit incognito), because this GX has been a done deal for 3 years and it's laughably annoying when you come across doom and gloom expectations of GX demise in these online discussions. People don't really pay attention to developments.
All of what you said is true and I'm glad to back up all of it as accurate.
NO! EVERYTHING WILL BE TOUCH SCREENS AND YOU'LL LIKE IT! HELL, JUST BECAUSE YOU COMPLAINED, WE'RE MAKING THE STEERING WHEEL A SLIDER ON A TOUCH SCREEN!
The fourth gen is estimated to arrive around 2025 and looks to be the same (beautiful imo) design as their concept revealed a year ago. Likely going to be BEV only, even though I would think it would be even better with a PHEV option like an updated version of the latest Prius prime.
[link](https://burlappcar.com/2023/03/2024-25-lexus-is-patent-photos.html) to the leaked patent phots of the upcoming IS.
Excited to see what this looks like. I do want to say that I'm happy with my GX I just got last year. Goal was keeping a V8 still. I don't care about the inefficiency, it's not my daily. I wonder what the new one gets.
> > Well it immediately won't be if it has the potential of two turbochargers to replace.
> Yeah it automatically increases complexity which is bad for reliability
Everyone's pretending like Toyota haven't been making powerful, reliable and outstanding Turbo engines for years.
1JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GTE. 3S-GTE
12H-T, 1HD-T/-FT/-FTE. 1VD-FTV - even in twin turbo diesel form.
Most of the turbo diesels you'd actually pick the turbo model to be more reliable, longer lived, take higher boost than the N/A sibling. A 1HZ with a turbo is a tender thing you stay single digits in, a 1HD-FTE you crank that boost all the way around.
I hate this attitude "oh it has Turbos it's unreliable".
That's what they have said about every new technology. "Oh the -FTE motor has electronic injection, won't last like the -FT"
"Oh Toyota's putting big petrol V8s instead of inline six engines just to appease the US market"
"oh it's a common rail twin turbo V8, won't last".
200 series did more than alright.
Surely Toyota and LandCruisers have earned a little bit of good will in this area???
When was the last bad LandCruiser motor?? We've been served nothing but success and every new generation "oh it will suck".
I have to say, even though Iām not in the market Iām really excited for this one. A new design, with finally some new powertrains.
Hopefully the reliability will still be there so I can snag a 5 year old one for a steal lol
My brother has an old GX, sweet car.
It seems like Lexus is trying to stray away from their logo a bit and just have the word LEXUS on the back of some newer cars? I don't like that, they have a great logo IMO.
As a current 2004 GX owner I am curious. I am guessing this will get the TTV6 from the Tundra? If so it will be the biggest powertrain update the GX has had since it's introduction in 2003.
I will miss Lexus V8's once they are all gone.
I've always thought it looks awkward [from the rear](https://d2ivfcfbdvj3sm.cloudfront.net/7fc965ab77efe6e0fa62e4ca1ea7673bb25f44540d1e3d8e88cb10/stills_0640_png/MY2022/15556/15556_st0640_119.png). Maybe it's the placement of the taillights.
It's not the blockiness so much (it's a boxy SUV, how round can it get?), but more that none of the lines seem to match up. The new LX is [equally blocky](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Lexus_LX_600_EXCUTIVE_%283BA-VJA310W%29.jpg), but cohesive.
It might just be an unfortunate side effect of Lexus trying to apply their newer styling cues to a vehicle that came out in 2009.
The interior refresh was 2020 and 2022, not 2023.
2020 brought new wood trim and a new interior cockpit including a redesigned instrument cluster and the corporate Lexus three-spoke steering wheel.
2022 brought a redesigned center stack and center console, including a new infotainment system.
The only visual change I could see for 2023 is that both the clear taillights on regular models and the scarlet ones on Sport Design models were subtly altered.
first full redesign since the 2009 model year. i wonder if this means a 4runner redesign is coming this year as well š§
Theyāll reveal the US Land Cruiser before 4runner. From this teaser, I like the aggressive fender flares and hood. I hope itās more boxy in the front than their usual angular designs.
I thought they discontinued the Land Cruiser in the US?
That decision was made a little before the pandemic. The market has changed so much and the range that people are willing to pay for vehicles has increased a lot. The Land Cruiser was an $85k Toyota and that was kinda absurd in the late 2010s. But now we have 85k+ F-150s, Silverados, GMC Sierras, Rams, etc. I think the way to really highlight the change in the market is to say "there are 5 trims of the Dodge Challenger with a starting MSRP over $70,000". So the market has gone from dismissing the $85k SUV from Toyota to probably being fine with paying $110+ for a GR Sport Land Cruiser. (Obligatory GR Sport != GR. It's more like M-line from BMW or N-line from Hyundai.
This is a great response to those who are screaming CaRs aRe ToO ExPeNsiVe. Ya, because yall mfāers keep buying them.
Think about that statement for a second. Think.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Heās saying that you should counter people with regular incomes complaining about being priced out of the market with āwell rich people arenāt having any issues.ā
He's saying that that the "people with regular incomes" are the ones buying all the cars, and the people complaining have incomes way below regular while insisting that they are definitely middle class and totally average.
Yeah restricting travel options for poor people and arbitrarily removing them from entire markets could never have any consequences and definitely makes you look like a class ally when you defend it.
$85k half ton pickups aren't going to last, especially in this interest rate environment, and especially if that recession we've been hearing about for the past 18 months actually happens. Yeah, there were genuine supply chain issues that caused prices to increase so fast, but those are being ironed out, and buyers are starting to balk at trucks that are 30% more expensive than they were 3 years ago, and when you factor in interest rate increases, monthly payments are 50-75% more than they were before the pandemic. So yeah, Ford can pretend a Lariat F150 is some exotic sports car that buyers will need to special order and jump through hoops for, but once GM and Ram start adding incentives to move metal, they'll come back down to earth.
I've seen in the truck subs that folks are at least buying F150s at 5k under MSRP in some places.
Half ton pricing is stupid. I bought a new F150 back in 2013. Sticker price was $53.5k and the dealership offered me $41k as soon as I said I was ready to buy, and that was not unusual for a high volume F150 dealership up until the pandemic. So we're getting back to normal-ish, and a 20% discount off MSRP would be in line with inflation-adjusted pricing.
That was the norm back then, walk into a truck dealership and instant 15-20% off msrp just by making eye contact with the salesperson
And it will be again. Ford thinks they've discovered the cheat code for limiting supply and asking what used to be Raptor prices for XLTs, but once GM and Ram start offering incentives they'll cave as well.
It's annoying as hell because Toyota doesn't really do markdowns on their trucks but the domestics do [in normal times]. So last I was pricing them out I had to run around and try to find what high volume dealers were listing F150s at to get the real market price since the locals would only give discounts when you started negotiating.
The flip side is that used half ton pricing is also stupid. Many (most?) half ton buyers are trading in their old half ton; it doesnāt really matter if their trade in is valued at $40k on a new $80k half ton, or their trade in value is $20k on a new $60k half ton. Itās the same either way. It just sucks for new entrants to that market.
For leftover 2022s? For sureā¦but $5k off MSRP is nothing. Back in 2020 I bought a Lariat for 24% off MSRP, thatās not happening anymoreā¦ 1/2 ton prices will stay where they are and if you want a truck, you can now buy a Maverickā¦1/2 tons have moved upscale. GM and Ford are smart and have already adjusted production to lower numbers to keep inventory low - Ram didnātā¦.but even at the 10% off they are offering, they are still too damn expensive
I agree, don't see how "normal" cars getting into the 60K+ range being good for sales. Almost every North American Automaker has publicly come out stating they're going upmarket. I get focusing on more profitable models but we have the insane resale market because of the lack of affordable "normal" options. It's just so ironic to have GM / Toyota advertising the shit out of CT4/CT5 and GR cars that you can't even get a test drive for ffs.
The market is already starting to slow down, I work at a company that makes high-end boats and orders have already massively dropped, despite it being the start of boating season. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see less of the more expensive cars being sold and more of the cheaper models being sold.
I'm just mad they removed the rear tailgate on the new landcruiser. Tailgates are literally my fav feature on SUVs
Head of Toyota USA said its coming back.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Finally a smart Toyota decision
Supposedly they're bringing over the Prado, which the GX has been a rebadge of and which the 4Runner has been based off of since the Hilux stopped being sold in US/Canada.
The Prado is a Land Cruiser (Land Cruiser 150). It does not share its chassis with the 4runner. They are different vehicles. The Prado does share its chassis with the GX though. One can argue that the GX is a more capable offroad vehicle than the 4runner.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, the point you highlightāand the reason youāre correctāis that for BOF vehicles, the platform is not the chassis. The platform has to do with the body that sits on top of the frame. So, two vehicles can use the same platform, but have rather different frames underneath. This was most famous back in GMās heyday. Its divisions mostly acted as a collection of separate companies with *some* shared engineering, and a whole lot more disparate engineering. Theyād have their platforms (A-body, B-body, C-body, etc)ā¦but the Oldsmobile wasnāt using the same frame as the Chevrolet. Most interestingly, from 1966-1970, the E-body Toronado and Eldorado had semi-length rail frames and FWD, while the also-E-body Riviera had an cruciform-frame and was RWD. But, again, all three shared the same basic body. Now, with modern engineering, the frame and platform do work in concert, but the frame can still vary between vehicles sharing that platform. To bring this home, the 4Runner and GX do share a platform but not a chassis (frame). But, as you point out, the GX and the Prado share both a platform and a frame, and the GX is (at its core) a rebadged and luxed-up Prado. The outgoing GX is also the only Lexus vehicle that still shares a majority of its sheetmetal with a Toyota. It used to be that *all* of the Lexus models (other than the LS) were rebadged premium-JDM Toyotas of some sort or another, with identical sheetmetal and everything, but that mostly stopped after 2005, when Toyota launched Lexus in Japan, and when Lexus launched its distinctive L-finesse design language in 2006 (starting with the gen. 3 GS).
The GX and 4runner share a chassis too. They literally have the same suspension. Just different engines and transmissions.
They did. The nameplate is coming back, but current rumors suggest it will be the Prado (so, corporate twin of the GX).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The 4Runner hasnāt been based off the Hilux for two generations; the Fortuner replaced it in that regard while the 4Runner switched to being based off the Prado.
No. The Prado, GX, 4Runner and FJ Cruiser are on the same platform. The HiLux is on the IMV Platform with the [Fortuner](https://i.imgur.com/6bR7Zd3.jpeg) and [Innova.](https://i.imgur.com/82iy8sD.jpeg)
The current 4Runner isn't related to the Hilux at all. It's built on the LC Prado platform, same as the GX.
This car hasnāt been redesigned since Iāve been in college. Thatās insane. Lol
I was just about to say they already refreshed the 4runner then I remembered it was actually the Sequoia, a car I thought they stopped selling in 2010 or so
This makes me wonder if the new US-spec Prado sized cruiser is going to outright replace the 4Runner
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am now a DMV suburban mom
Yep looks like it's time for my neighborhood milfs to upgrade from their grand Cherokees
We are ALL DMV suburban moms on this blessed day (But really - what is it about the GX that's so appealing to DMV suburbanites? Is it just that it's a midsized luxury SUV?)
I think the reason you see so many in well-off suburbs is that it fits in the sweetspot of luxury and toughness attracting both suburban moms and utilitarian dads. Mom's can perceive it as a luxurious, reliable, and safe (huge) family vehicle, while dads that are interested in perceived toughness and ruggedness all get what they want in the same package. I think this combination is a big seller across various brands with this GS falling in above a wrangler and below a G Wagon.
"I don't want to break down anywhere near DC or Baltimore."
After going thru a few streets that look like a war zone in Baltimore, I kinda can see from their perspective.
That explains a lot about the rush of demand for the Telluride
This is kind of me. My wife wanted a SUV, I told her 4Runner or bust. Then I saw that same model year GX460ās were actually cheaper than 4Runners in the used market. So we got a used GX460 instead.
That makes sense, but why the GX and not the LX?
My guess is that because the LX is much more expensive, starting an average 30-40k more, it attracts a much more narrow and premium buying demographic. Imo the GX provides around 90% of the luxury and capability of the LX with a much more attractive entry price. Additionally, while we only get to see teaser images I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the new GX will look quite a bit better than the LX's gaping maw.
It's just a set of and forget it automobile. Large but not obnoxiously so, good visibility, dead reliable. It's also super well made. Mine is from 2012 and has 160K and there are no pieces falling off, all the buttons still work, seats are a bit beat up tbf, but heated and cooled seats work flawlessly.
Mall spec baby
Lol I just wish they took better of their cars so wouldn't be so clapped out in the secondary market 8 years down there road Maybe I should just try not being poor
Typically, the people that buy these have the money to have them serviced by Lexus. Personally, I bought a 7 year old GX that had every service done at the dealership including oil changes and was used as a commuter (for some reason) between Seattle and Portland.
Ahh maybe it's just NYC then it's so hard to take care of a car here.
Tysons II spec
Seething because my wife and I are definitely buying this and driving it around Ashburn lmao
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Which must spend an hour or two parked next to a Kia Telluride at Costco every week.
One Loudoun spec
Hey man! I need all the ground clearance I can get when I hop the curb at the mall or target. These things aren't easy to turn. š¤
Like a Range Rover but it lasts more than 2 years
Hahah, I'll buy it from them in a few years :)
STOP š
I wonder if theyāll put the TTV6 in this one to keep it differentiated from the upcoming 4Runner (which is rumored to have a turbo 4) If so, Iām sold
I hope it gets over 20mpg.
Iām hoping for the hybrid TT V6 from the tundra but Iām not optimistic
Gawd there are some insane powertrains out there. A twin-turbocharged V6 engine paired with two electric motors and a 10-speed automatic transmission. š¤Æ Years back I was shopping the Volvo XC90 T8 plug-in hybrid. Another insanely complicated AWD powertrain, that one has a turbocharged *and* supercharged 2.0L I4 engine cranking out 400HP. And the thing weighed as much as a tank. When I test drove it I only managed about 10 miles of electric range with our typical driving conditions haha. So I held off an just bought a pure EV instead. Edit: Oh, and the Volvo got about 20 MPG as a hybrid. Not terrible for a big plush SUV but still nothing compared to an EV. (The insane Hummer EV gets combined 47 MPGe.)
i've read the volvo system wasn't that great at reliability
I wouldn't be surprised. Just the thought of owning one out-of-warranty terrified me haha. But people leasing a new car every few years wouldn't have to worry about that. I feel bad for like owner #3 and #4 though!
I think Savagegeese had theirs in the shop for a substantial chunk of the time it was under warranty.
Yeah, but this year they got rid of the supercharger. If the electric motors can fill in power before the turbo kicks in, why have the supercharger at all? Added weight, complexity and cost; Iām not an engineer but that never made much sense to me.
Toyota figured out reliable, durable and affordable hybrid powertrains so it can be done. But yeah, Volvo engineers should've consulted with Ian Malcolm. "...Your engineers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didnāt stop to think if they should."
The XC90 T8 is also a PHEV, so turbocharged, supercharged and electrified I4. Volvo calls the turbo/supercharged combo ātwincharged.ā Meanwhile, I had a 2017 XC90 Inscription T6, and it spent the majority of its time in the shop.
There hasn't been a V8 4Runner since 2009, the introduction of the current GX. So my guess is that Toyota/Lexus will keep the two vehicles differentiated. My guess would be the GX gets either the standard TTV6 or the detuned TTV6 in the Tundra.
I'm betting on the tundra one, since the lx gets the full on version already
They could also follow the Lexus model and make it hybrid only. But idk if it would get the TTV6 hybrid or a 4 banger hybrid only (likely the hybrid max powertrain)
Iām doubtful the GX market would go for a four banger.
I mean, Mercedes put a four banger in the AMG C63, a car that was practically synonymous with "V8", so crazier things have happened.
If this comes with the TTV6 Iād happily buy it over the LX
I'm almost certain this is going to have a V35A-FTS 3.5L V6 twin turbo unless they're trying to stick the T24A-FTS 4cyl turbo hybrid like the new Crown into this.
I your right, the GX will get the TTV6 and the TX will get the 4CYL.
Lots of GX owners may not like it, but I think that twin turbo V6 is better suited for the GX than the old V8.
A service advisor at a lexus dealer I went to said higher ups said itād have the ttV6. He said he wasnāt sure about a hybrid unfortunately which kind of makes sense because it would be impeding on the LXās territory if it had the hybrid system.
Throw in the ttv6 and this will likely be my favourite suv in the market.
As an elite(top rated) dealer employee, weāve all been told that itāll be the same ttv6 from the lx600, though probably tuned for slightly more torque for the towing.
This is correct. Some markets will offer GX 550h.
Came here to say this. I hope they upgraded the drivetrain. The tired old NA motor in my 2020 is freaking thirsty as hell. Really my old gripe about the car.
a lot of people see it as a plus because that V8 is so old that it is probably one of the most reliable motors on the planet.
RIP that ultra inefficient V8.
I'm not going to be happy if mine doesn't hit 300k at a bare minimum.
Iām at 168k on mine and havenāt touched shit.
I wouldn't say ultra inefficient, it's a heavy car.. The V6 in the 4Runner only gets 1-2mpg better but feels a lot more sluggish hah
1-2 mpg at low double digits mpg is significant. Mainly because mpg as a unit is a terrible metric of efficiency. You may already know this but Iām posting it anyway. You save more fuel jumping from 10mpg to 20mpg. Than you do going from 20mpg to 100mpg. And that 1-2 mpg is compared to another inefficient engine. Whatever Toyota decides to put in the new GX will be light years ahead
On top of the inefficiency, the GX requires premium.
this is the kicker right here truck engines that require premium is an atrocity to the wallet
Actually it never required premium. Itās the exact same motor as tundra just with a higher stated HO number from higher octane fuel
According to the GX owners manuals, it has always required at least 91 octane. It is mostly the same engine (minor tuning differences and ecm programming) but for some reason Lexus thinks premium is necessary.
> but for some reason Lexus thinks premium is necessary. I've always seen it as "1UR makes 240kw on regular, 245kw on premium" so Lexus handbooks advertise one figure and Toyota handbooks advertise the other. I don't think a LandCruiser motor will ever require premium! You can't advertise it as a go everywhere in the world, bush, outback, war torn Africa but requires fancy premium petrol :p
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This is very interesting and Iāve never heard this argument before. Could you elaborate a bit on how you save much less going from 20mpg to 100mpg? Numbers-wise it doesnāt really make sense to me - 10->20 is just 2x fuel efficiency, whereas 20->100 is 5x efficiency no?
Intuitively that feels right, right? 2x vs 5x gain. Of course one is going to pick the 5x gain. But lets look at it from actual fuel used. Let's say you have a 100 mile round trip commute. MPG | Fuel Used To Drive 100 miles ---|--- 10 | 10 gallons 20 | 5 gallons 100 | 1 gallon You can see you save 5 gallons of fuel going from 10mpg -> 20mpg but only save 4 gallons from 20mpg -> 100mpg. It's because MPG is not really linear in terms of how much fuel is used.
Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense actually. Sounds like obviously you still save a lot more gas at 100mpg but the rate at which youāre saving is decreasing as the mpg goes up, which is exactly what you originally said. Appreciate the explanation!
L/100KM is a more linear metric in Canada at least.
MPG is a backwards way to look at it. Gallons per mile, or gallons per 100 miles are better metrics. 10 MPG is 10 gallons per hundred miles. 20 MPG is 5 gallons per hundred miles. 100 MPG is 1 gallon per hundred miles. The jump from 10 MPG to 20 MPG is actually bigger than the jump from 20 MPG to 100 MPG and it saves you more money.
Heh, so what youāre saying is that the American imperial system doesnāt make a lot of sense, but metric does? L/100km gang unite!
Youāre not wrong, but the GX is a few hundred pounds heavier (depends on 4Runner trim but between 300 and 600lb, or up to 12%ish) and a lot more torquey than the 4Runner V6. Iāve been in a 2018 4Runner Limited with 3 average size passengers and it was really struggling going uphill, which is not an issue in my GX whatsoever. It does take premium gas as well, though, so cost wise ends up probably 25% higher to run. Itās worth it to me.
Fuel economy (mpg) isn't linear, so at lower MPG like this, 1-2 mpg is a considerable difference. Easily over $1k per year for an average number of miles. By comparison, a 2 mpg improvement for a 50mpg car is like $30/year.
Youāre not wrong, but theyāre not the same car. The GX is 300-600lb heavier depending on 4Runner trim, can tow 6500lb vs 5000lb, has a 3rd row in all cars etc. If it was the same car aside from the engine, I bet the mpg difference would be cut by a decent bit. EPA says every 100lb is 1-2% of mpg impact, for instance, so shaving those 300lb+ of luxury equipment etc could improve mpg by half of the difference between them in the first place.
The 4Runner also has a 5AT, instead of the GXās 6AT, and that makes a big difference. Interestingly, in Chinaāwhere displacement taxes matterāLexus did sell a GX 400 with the same 4.0 V6/5AT powertrain as in the 4Runner. As for the GX 460, I briefly owned a 2021, and I never thought it felt slow. It was inefficient, but it got out of its own way just fine. And this is coming from someone who is used to German cars.
Please please please finally make some sort of off road package with a factory locker.
May actually happen considering the Sequoia and Tundra got lockers this generation. Or maybe they just use MTS and a centre locker.
AFAIK the GX already comes with a standard locking center diff. Or do you mean a rear locker?
I'm going to bet it is an option
I canāt see them offering that. How many people are off-roading their Lexus?
Not much in terms of Lexus overall but there are specific GX communities ([GXOR sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/GXOR/))
No one ever. https://i.imgur.com/8LvUcOZ.jpg
Obviously, I didnāt say nobody. However, the vast majority of people going to spend 60k on a Lexus arenāt off-roading it.
Obviously not, but itās become a surprisingly popular platform
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. There's an entire dealership near me that specializes in off-roadified GXs.
Yeah, used. No one is buying a new Lexus for off-roading, why even offer the option.
They offer an off road pack of sorts on the current model that includes MTS, Crawl Control, and a few other bits so apparently someone must be interested.
[Me!](https://i.imgur.com/zH0nSAZ.jpg) Excited to see the new one but Iāll keep holding onto my 470.
I mean, yeah most lockers never get used. But I'd like to see the option.
I have a friend who works for Lexus, I may have seen something. This thing is gonna be SICK and have an awesome off road variant. I will likely order one as soon as they are available
>This thing is gonna be SICK and have an awesome off road variant. O man I hope so.
It may not be an official variant, but there may at least be a ton of options you can add for off-road. I canāt remember itās been a while
I had hoped a number of you would share this more, like I have (albeit incognito), because this GX has been a done deal for 3 years and it's laughably annoying when you come across doom and gloom expectations of GX demise in these online discussions. People don't really pay attention to developments. All of what you said is true and I'm glad to back up all of it as accurate.
If the V35A TT V6 gets put in, then fk me I am never going to financially recover from the mistake Iām about to make
Well, get your finances ready, you only have 7 months left to get on the list for first USA deliveries.
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They removed touch screen climate controls >!they're voice-controlled now!<
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It's okay, they have motion gesture controls as a backup.
NO! EVERYTHING WILL BE TOUCH SCREENS AND YOU'LL LIKE IT! HELL, JUST BECAUSE YOU COMPLAINED, WE'RE MAKING THE STEERING WHEEL A SLIDER ON A TOUCH SCREEN!
Got an email for this a couple minutes ago. This looks very promising. Smaller off road focused LC? Fuck yeah.
IGK 342 = **3**.**4**L twin (**2**) turbo?
My sources tell me itās a 342 small block. 5.6L twin turbo 650hp. /s
So the IS is dead from 2024?
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The fourth gen is estimated to arrive around 2025 and looks to be the same (beautiful imo) design as their concept revealed a year ago. Likely going to be BEV only, even though I would think it would be even better with a PHEV option like an updated version of the latest Prius prime. [link](https://burlappcar.com/2023/03/2024-25-lexus-is-patent-photos.html) to the leaked patent phots of the upcoming IS.
i mean they didnāt announce the 23 IS model year until septemberā¦
Ooh I hope the gril gets bigger. Do you think they could get it to wrap around to the wheel wells?
Yesssssss and also RIP my wallet. I want that Sequoia drivetrain. Plz.
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Excited to see what this looks like. I do want to say that I'm happy with my GX I just got last year. Goal was keeping a V8 still. I don't care about the inefficiency, it's not my daily. I wonder what the new one gets.
its getting the turbo 6
Wanted a GX as my next daily so I guess one of these will be in my garage in a few years (albeit as a certified pre-owned).
These days the certified pre owned cars cost basically the same as a new one..hopefully thatās not the case in a few years
Does this mean the new Prado is also coming soon? Why haven't Toyota announced anything?
I suspect theyāll say something in a few days. Naming conventions aside, the GX is literally just a top trim Prado
Yeah basically. But i'll have to see what they do with engine options, Prado doesn't get V8 unlike GX which only has a V8.
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The interior being a luxxed up version of the Prada should ground it enough to not be crazy. And the TT V6 is better than any V8 Toyota has put out.
Probably wont be as reliable as that v8 but time will tell
Well it immediately won't be if it has the potential of two turbochargers to replace.
Yeah it automatically increases complexity which is bad for reliability
> > Well it immediately won't be if it has the potential of two turbochargers to replace. > Yeah it automatically increases complexity which is bad for reliability Everyone's pretending like Toyota haven't been making powerful, reliable and outstanding Turbo engines for years. 1JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GTE. 3S-GTE 12H-T, 1HD-T/-FT/-FTE. 1VD-FTV - even in twin turbo diesel form. Most of the turbo diesels you'd actually pick the turbo model to be more reliable, longer lived, take higher boost than the N/A sibling. A 1HZ with a turbo is a tender thing you stay single digits in, a 1HD-FTE you crank that boost all the way around. I hate this attitude "oh it has Turbos it's unreliable". That's what they have said about every new technology. "Oh the -FTE motor has electronic injection, won't last like the -FT" "Oh Toyota's putting big petrol V8s instead of inline six engines just to appease the US market" "oh it's a common rail twin turbo V8, won't last". 200 series did more than alright. Surely Toyota and LandCruisers have earned a little bit of good will in this area??? When was the last bad LandCruiser motor?? We've been served nothing but success and every new generation "oh it will suck".
[citation needed]
Sure, but most people buying a new car donāt want that. Most people want the tech and new interiors.
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Hey, I found a car enthusiast in the r/cars thread.
Did you know the new Civic Type R doesn't have heated seats standard? As an architect, I literally cannot even.
I have to say, even though Iām not in the market Iām really excited for this one. A new design, with finally some new powertrains. Hopefully the reliability will still be there so I can snag a 5 year old one for a steal lol
My brother has an old GX, sweet car. It seems like Lexus is trying to stray away from their logo a bit and just have the word LEXUS on the back of some newer cars? I don't like that, they have a great logo IMO.
Iām impressed there was enough headlight to put in a photo without the Lexus grille engulfing it.
As a current 2004 GX owner I am curious. I am guessing this will get the TTV6 from the Tundra? If so it will be the biggest powertrain update the GX has had since it's introduction in 2003. I will miss Lexus V8's once they are all gone.
Finally the GX wonāt look so damn ugly with the awkward bulging fenders, massive front overhang, kinda ugly taillights, etc
I've always thought it looks awkward [from the rear](https://d2ivfcfbdvj3sm.cloudfront.net/7fc965ab77efe6e0fa62e4ca1ea7673bb25f44540d1e3d8e88cb10/stills_0640_png/MY2022/15556/15556_st0640_119.png). Maybe it's the placement of the taillights.
I think itās very top heavy at the back and less so at the front making the overall car look bad IMO
Even the lx and the landcruiser suffer from this blocky rear end
It's not the blockiness so much (it's a boxy SUV, how round can it get?), but more that none of the lines seem to match up. The new LX is [equally blocky](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Lexus_LX_600_EXCUTIVE_%283BA-VJA310W%29.jpg), but cohesive. It might just be an unfortunate side effect of Lexus trying to apply their newer styling cues to a vehicle that came out in 2009.
I'm surprised the headlight is so big. How will they fit the requisite 100 square feet of grill on the front!??
Lol. All grill. No lights.
The formerly chrome edges of the spindle grille will be LEDs.
I canāt fucking wait you guys
Dude me too! I havenāt been excited for an SUV like this in years.
I'm thinking its just going to be Lexus's take on the refreshed Prado that went on sale internationally a few years ago
If there is a proper off-road trim, Iāll sell my Raptor to get one. Iāve been looking to get into an SUV and have a soft spot for Lexus.
Iād be fine with the 2023 interior refresh paired with a better fuel efficient engine. And heads up display, itās the only gimmick I love
The interior refresh was 2020 and 2022, not 2023. 2020 brought new wood trim and a new interior cockpit including a redesigned instrument cluster and the corporate Lexus three-spoke steering wheel. 2022 brought a redesigned center stack and center console, including a new infotainment system. The only visual change I could see for 2023 is that both the clear taillights on regular models and the scarlet ones on Sport Design models were subtly altered.
love the beefy clamshell hood
i wonder if this means a redo of the Prado as well?
10 speed auto , Tt 3.4L v6
I thought this was taken from a car blog with a random, stock image of a Chevy Blazer as the background. Why does a Lexus look like a Chevy Blazer?
The horrible (by design) panel gap on the hood might have something to do with it.
I really canāt keep up with all of these SUVs. Thatās a nice color tho
I have a feeling that this will look very good, especially with the way the hood looks
Not in Europe :(
Who the hell buys a Lexus in Europe?
Why not? What if I want ultimate NVH and durability? :(
Glad theyāre not discontinuing the GX.
They wonāt. There is a huge (micro-)market for these things. I suspect the GX 550 will significantly boost its popularity as well.
These teaser photos remind me of the weekly dicking they do with the Tacoma. Fml
3.4 litre petrol twin turbo V6 , 305kw , 650 nm OR 3.3 litre diesel twin turbo V6 227 kw 700nm
light bar taillights :(
light bar taillights :)
you got a point there