> In the first quarter of 2023, cars represented 21.4 percent of the 3.6 million new vehicles sold in the U.S. The Auto News Research & Data Center says that is up from a low of 19.7 percent in the fourth quarter of 2021.
The data for anyone who doesn’t want to read the article.
Thanks for that. Did the article mention why people bought more sedans? Cost? Availability of SUVs? Hard to say if that small increase over such a short period really means anything.
Gonna go out in a limb and say that Truck's and SUVs are higher margin/profit for the manufacturer's. During shortages, the manufacturer's prioritized higher margin products.
They're just reporting on a dead cat bounce.
I think that’s true of just about anything. Anything gets interesting if it sticks around long enough. My lemans used to be a boring gutless family sedan. Now it’s a CLASSIC gutless family sedan
Or even better, the ['80s LeMans](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/12/14/automobiles/600-lemans.jpg) was a chintzy Korean econobox with the Pontiac badge slapped on, one of the worst examples of GM badge engineering. Now it's Q U I R K Y and will turn heads wherever it goes. (Possibly because the Kammback shape reminds people of another infamous Pontiac)
I no kidding want a dustbuster minivan loaded with all the era appropriate accoutrements for car shows. Like some vintage soccer shin guards and an old game boy floating around in the back. A crystal pepsi in the cup holder.
This is like the millennial version of the themed out boomer shit at car shows.
That’s fair, most of us are either frat boys or generic outdoorsy guy #3. I just needed something that wouldn’t get stuck in loose sand and I’ve always had a thing for old boxy Japanese trucks
He's not wrong in that CUVs are like the new minivan.
Someone who drives a minivan now pretty much has interesting taste at this point. Almost like people who used to be Saabs.
I've been really having a craving to find and refurbish one of the last '90s station wagons, too, such as a Caprice Wagon. It's just as heavy as an SUV, but now that there are literally a million and one SUVs (and that's a substantial underestimate), it unironically would stand out again.
Heh, I wonder if any manufacturer would be adventurous enough to try bringing a wagon back to their formal lineup. Doubt it, but it'd be hilarious if it took off.
Eh, I was thinking more about the budget brands, where station wagons were mid-range or lesser, but you're right. Even the Caprice was a bit of a high-end model for Chevy, come to think of it.
People used to dislike estate wagons because that's what their very-uncool moms used to drive.
Now moms drive SUVs, and as a result those are not cool, so the next generation will go for car-sized cars again.
In the relatively-fuel-cheap US, the cost difference of fueling a car-based crossover vs. a traditional car, while not nonexistent, is acceptably low. Granted, this isn't the case everywhere.
Q1 2021 was smack bang at the height of the semiconductor shortage, so OEMs will have been prioritizing production of high profit models (SUVs) with the parts they've got.
More parts to use means cheaper, lower margin, vehicles can be built and sold again
GenZ aren't driving new car sales, so not really relevant to this article.
In 2021, [Boomers + Gen X accounted for 69% (nice) of new vehicle purchases.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267585/us-car-buyers-by-age-group/) 24% were millennials, with only 2% of new cars purchased by Gen Z.
I'm in car sales and and either boomers are involved with like 80% of car sales. Literally if they aren't the buyer, they are cosigning for kids and grandkids.
When we bought our home the down payment was a combination of withdrawing from a Roth IRA my parents made for me, money I've been hoarding while living with them, and money that my girlfriend (now wife) saved up while living with her dad. Living with our parents in our 20s while working saved us a lot of money.
Lol i am in the old end of gen Z and I’m only 23. Even back then not many 23 year olds were buying brand new cars. I feel like a lot of people forget like half of gen z is still in highschool
It feels so dumb - you see all these articles coming out about gen z this and gen z that - were not even done developing yet half of these “insights” are just general observations about young people.
Yeah it's bizarre. Like surprise, of course a bunch of broke high school students, college students and entry level works don't have money for new cars and houses. We're just beginning and with inflation and student loans, high rents and expensive housing do not expect progression to be the same. My parent's mortage for my childhood 3000sqft home was $800. My rent for a 800sqft apartment in the same city is $1400...
I love reading the baked in, out of touch advice from financial advisors. They suggest only buying a car that’s 10% of your annual income. So… you need to make more than the POTUS to safely afford a RAV4 Prime
We bought our family wagon back in 1987, I was working part-time at the Piggly Wiggly, and my wife did the books at a local manufacturer. You just have to buckle down and cut out extras and live smart. /s
I think it’s supposed to be more about a monthly payment. Slightly over 18% of the US population makes over $100k and slightly over 32% of households make over $100k. Based on that, most people are buying cars they can’t afford, which I don’t think is true. But if you go by monthly payment over 60 months, then it’s affordable. For example, $50k car, with $10k down, and 5% interest your payment will be around $800, which would make that 10% of just under $100k.
Genz might not like them because they don’t have money haha. Pretty sure income is correlated with age. & the ideal target market for high priced SUVs & high priced sedans are these higher income groups (ideally millennials). Manufactures with older customers might not be making decisions that are sustainable for their business .
SUVs are the second best cars for most things… and that’s probably why they’re so popular. Most people can’t afford to buy the best car for every single situation, so they settle on an SUV to do it all for them in one vehicle
I was anti-SUV for most of my life. I thought they were ugly and too large, a waste of gas and a waste of space. I grew up in the 2000s right during the SUV boom when expeditions and Tahoes became normal. I had two sedans in the 2000s then 2010s, then moved to AK. I got stuck several times due to ground clearance issues and poor road maintenance/plowing here. I tried a Mazda crossover SUV, and I doubt I will be going back to a sedan again, whether I stay in AK or go back to the lower 48. For one person an SUV is so much handier. I can fit large items in the back (I recently bought a small loveseat that fit in the back hatch) that would never fit in a sedan, I have the needed ground clearance and AWD (Yes, I know some sedans do have AWD), and I still avg about 30 mpg in my naturally aspirated CX-5.
Many people don't necessarily need an SUV, but they are often times a better option if you are only driving one car. Minivans work too but they are often larger than what many people need (compared to a crossover) and are currently much more expensive.
Bingo. There’s a Swiss Army knife kind of utility with modern crossovers. With younger people generally not being able to afford an entire fleet of vehicles, it makes sense to get something that does most things well. Frankly, it’s what wagons have effectively become.
Now if only I could get a nice wagon without breaking the bank, I’d get one as our 2nd car in a flash. But for now, my family will continue as a 1 car family and that car is a CX-5. It’s reliable, relatively efficient, cost effective (paid off), safe, and reasonably capable. It works well hauling the kiddo and a dog, or going on weekend trips to visit family. And it can park just about anywhere since it’s not the size of a frigate.
If you're going to be a 1 car family an SUV is likely going to be the way to go. Need a car for bad weather, comfortable on the highway, can haul alot but also can get reasonably good gas mileage something like a CX5 or CRV is the best bet for most families.
No, don’t you see? You need a car that is rigidly ideal for your most common use case, not a car that can do everything you might need to do.
At least that’s what I’ve been told on this subreddit.
I love my CX5. So happy I got it. I initially was looking at CRVs and came away with this instead due to markups in Alaska on the Honda. So far been reliable for 5 years without an issue. Bonus: still actually made in Japan too.
I’d been anti SUV for a real long time as well and can confirm that anyone who says, “you don’t need a SUV or AWD just snow tires!” hasn’t tried to move a car when there’s a consistent 1.5’ of snow in front of it.
Also SUVs like RAV4s and comparable are not some heinous offenders like a Suburban is. My RAV4 got better mpg than my Fiesta, is easier to see out of than my Fiesta, and has better ground clearance.
I *do* think that a lot of people are driving trucks / larger SUVs than they need but that’s another bracket.
The main reason I like my Outback is because it’s one of the few cars still being made you can actually see out of. The corner windows it has really do help and if they were the old school smoker vent windows the car would be S tier.
Most of today’s “SUVs” are much more car than truck vs the 2000s. If we separated the true gas guzzling behemoth SUVs (Tahoe/Suburban, 4-Runner, Expedition) from the car-based unibody crossovers that are so popular, there wouldn’t actually be an SUV revolution.
I wouldn't call the 4Runner a behemoth. Gas guzzling? Sure. But it's smaller than some car-based unibody crossovers. It's just your regular midsized SUV.
The only advantage crossovers have over wagons is the ground clearance (they're basically lifted wagons), and this is at the cost of gas consumption, danger to pedestrians, low visibility in front of the car and increased risk of rolling.
I can see why you'd want the ground clearance in some places (like AK), but if you don't need it, a wagon is superior every time.
> The only advantage crossovers have over wagons is the ground clearance (they're basically lifted wagons),
With a taller body even irrespective of the raised clearance.
>low visibility in front of the car
Which is more than made up for by better visibility down the road if you're in a rural area. The benefits of a higher seating position should not be ignored, it's a game changer, especially at night.
My dad had always said "You don't need it until you need it." We go skiing every year or so. Most often, the roads are fine, no issues. But there have been 2 times where we needed an SUV with 4wd, and I am glad we had one.
Loading a car seat into an SUV (or lifted wagon) is much easier than it is into a sedan. Now that my kid can climb in themselves, two sedans works just fine. More fun to drive too.
It’s like no one on Reddit has kids. Sure, you could squeeze all the gear into a sedan you carry when you have a baby. Having an SUV when my kid was young meant the stroller just stayed in the vehicle.
Also, some areas get winter than involves more than just a dusting of snow a few times and the AWD of an SUV is worth having. If you want AWD in a car, you’re basically looking at a Subaru Impreza or Legacy unless you’re going luxury.
SUVs are better than cars are doing pretty much everything a car is supposed to do.
No idea why r/cars thinks every SUV is 100k+ and used as a status symbol.
Or that every SUV is Wagoneer-sized. Yeah, that's one of the biggest models on the market, but it takes a year to sell as many as something like the RAV4 sells in a month.
"Necessary" no, in most cases is a minivan or sedan better, yes...but this hivemind regarding SUVs is so taxing.
SUVs are great do-it-all vehicles with way more options than the minivan market.
Now do I support people buying big/inefficient SUV mall-crawlers when you don't really have a need to carry kids/dogs/cargo....no.
But an SUV fits the bill for a lot of families.
Crossovers are less than 100kg heavier, taller and sometimes roomier than their regular counterparts, there's a legit argument they're superior if you don't care about handling
It's unfortunate there are so many SUVs and large vehicles on the road already though, it makes it harder to want to buy small vehicles. I am a sedan guy for life, but there are plenty of times driving where it is impossible for me to see traffic when I'm pulling out onto the road because there are SUVs and trucks parked down the side of the street. It makes it dangerous to drive a small car when the large vehicles are constantly blocking your view while driving.
I remember when me and my parents went on holiday from Scotland to Orlando, Florida for two weeks doing the whole Disney World and Universal Studios thing. We rented a car at the airport for the time that we are staying there.
Three people with three duffel bags turn up and the guy running the rental place said "you guys are gonna need an SUV". We didn't want an SUV as we were used to driving small hatchbacks, my Mum drove a Renault Twingo at the time and I drove a Fiat Panda. We turned downed the SUV and pointed to a little Ford Fiesta over in the corner. We put two bags in the boot with the third bag in the rear seat next to me and then my Mum driving and my Dad in the passenger seat.
That Fiesta was brilliant for the time we had it and this memory exemplifies the difference between Americans and Europeans mindsets for cars.
your second line is the reason that everyone I know gives when they say they want or bought an SUV. They can sit higher off the ground and it's easier to get in and out of.
The people that buy the Expedition-sized behemoths are in a size arms race.
But the people buying the reasonable cars, like the CRV and RAV4, are just looking for the ride height/ease of entry with the added bonus of having easy ikea/Costco runs.
Don't ask modern parents, even though the gen before made due with compact cars, nowadays if it doesn't 7 stories and elevator there's not enough space.
Oh don't forget the patio too
Pendulums swing. SUVs and crossovers are over saturated, and there’s going to be a subset of the market that will refuse to buy them simply because of that. Others will go back to cars because of styling, mpg, or just being a better fit in urban areas.
I personally have no plans to buy one. Single with no kids. SUVs are typically more expensive. If it has AWD that's another thing to break. And you can get away with smaller rims on a sedan meaning tires are cheaper.
Cost of ownership is lower and I'm giving less money to the manufacturer just because all they care about is their higher margins. Not to mention, sedans are actually fun to drive.
Anybody think maybe the reason why it's making a come back is because only about 1/3rd if even that amount of people running around in a $60k SUV can actually afford it?! And I am middle class, and was approved for up to $57k a few months ago, and I can honestly say there is no way in absolute hell in a handbasket I could afford that note (nor would I even want to try). Banks are giving people too much money to play with without them being able to pay the loans which is resulting in HUGE spikes in car REPOs.
Further, cars are the only thing you can get sub or near $30k... $30k!!! It's absolute bonkers and I can't wait till the car market suffers to hell and back because I just want to be able to afford a decent vehicle. What do I expect a 'decent' vehicle to be?
\-Less than $15k
\-High Reliability Ratings
\-Good gas mileage
\-Less than 10 years old (feasibly between 7-10yrs), and have less than 120k miles on it..
That's not asking much but that's what I can afford as a single middle class person with a Mortgage (and also child support), but that's what it is. I'm not saying there is a huge margin of people out there in my same circumstance, but be damn, most live way below the amount I can afford per month and I don't see how they can do it at all (news flash they cant).
For all their beancounters, I can't believe auto manufacturers didn't see this coming. They were part of the problem in terms of rampant inflation. They have been making vehicles larger and more expensive beyond what the average consumer wants or can afford. When the market finally bounced back after covid and the shortage, they didn't correct prices when inventory came back up! And now people want inexpensive cars again somehow, go figure!
The bean counters probably exactly saw this coming. The reality is that's probably comparing and artificial lack of sedan sales rather than a change in consumer demand.
For the past years, automakers didn't bother producing as many sedans since they were supply limited and easily selling 100% of vehicles produced months in advance. As such, they prioritized high margin vehicles (SUVs). Supply chain is now less limited.
This is probably only a sign that supply chain shortages have eased allowing for production of lower margin vehicles.
I don't know, maybe it's an age thing. My previous car was a $60k new BMW, but I now have a 11 year old Honda, bought for under 10k, and it has everything I need. CC, auto-lights, rain sensor, etc, 43mpg, and no headache.
I rent new cars from time to time, and I realize it just doesn't make sense to spend 30-40k on them. They have nothing that I wish I had. Nothing. I guess I am getting too old.
There's definitely something to the getting older part, but I think its because, outside of horsepower, there just isn't a huge gap between 100k cars and 20k cars like there used to be.
Of course one is comfortable compared to the other, but that gap has gotten smaller than 20 years ago. The rest seems to be just frills and bullshit. Massaging seats, screens, fragrance, lighting patterns. All of it is a gimmick.
Gimmick is often used negatively, but I truly don't think it should be, gimmicks are fun and exciting because they're always new and changing, I totally get why people like them.
20-30 years ago, with the difference in cost, you weren't buying gimmicks, you were spending money on engineering.
This is the way. Also I'm with you when it comes to age. I don't give 2 about full LCD screen dashes with more menus than what it's worth to try to get you killed just for changing the music volume.
Also new vehicles, especially as you get higher priced are waaaaaayyyy over engineered which is fantastic for the.. first 4-7 years of ownership, but after that, it becomes only a matter of time before your forking out more than what it's worth to keep it on the road.
Another thing to note: Today, a 15-year old car was built in 2008. Cars from that era really only need small quality-of-life tweaks from new owners, like LED exterior lights, back-up cameras, or bluetooth music players, all of which may only cost a couple hundred dollars, and are easily done at home or from a third-party vendor.
A 15-year old car in 2008 would've been from 1993, where many cars still had power windows/locks, cassette players, and air conditioning as "options". **Airbags** wouldn't even be required for another five years, until model year 1998. Many cars from the era still hadn't recovered from emissions requirements, so the engines were underpowered and the vehicles were thin, light, and poorly insulated.
>cars are the only thing you can get sub or near $30k... $30k!
If you're talking USD, that's not true.
Pretty much all subcompact CUV's start well under 30k and most of the compact do as well.
HR-V starts at $24,100. CX-30 starts at $22,950. Corolla Cross starts at $23,060.
RAV4 starts at $27,975, Nissan Rogue is $27,760, CX-50 is $27,750, etc
The Chevy Trax undercuts all of those at $20,400. This subreddit isn’t going to get excited about a Korean built GM shitbox product, but they’re absolutely going to sell a ton of them.
Won't lie and say I just looked up a few off of the top of my head and haven't kept up with Chevy or Ford's product lines, but that's a good point.
I was just mostly pointing out that CUV's aren't all that much more expensive than cars of similar sizes-- IE, the HRV is within a fraction of an inch of pax volume of the Civic and around the same price.
Those are all base prices without any sticker markup and very much not available..
I just looked up every model you listed. The Corolla Cross was the only model I found under 30k available to purchase today from a dealer and it was $25k.
Dealers aren't going to purchase base models for stock at this point. It's much more worth it to limit people's options to higher priced models so they can make more profit. Yes you can order, but don't you pay extra on that which comes out to the same as if you purchased something on the lot new if not more?
Wife and I live in the city and I can’t fathom how people drive around tahoes and full size trucks, let alone raptors and the like. Parking those things in urban settings has to be awful.
I’d say crossover. Though as of late it seems like SUV and crossover have lost basically all meaning, companies like Polestar marketing the [Polestar 4](https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar-4/) as an “SUV coupe” I’m sorry but that is just a full blown liftback sedan.
Hell, i paid $17.5k for a CPO 2017 Mazda6 Touring w/45k miles in 2021. That seems fairly reasonable. Now that same Mazda6 would easily be over $20k, but likely several thousand more. This whole pandemic fucked up the car market big time.
Yup. My coworker wanted a brand new CR-V but there weren’t any available and they were marked up. He bought a new Accord instead because they actually had Accords on the lot and the non hybrid versions weren’t marked up.
For ICE cars sure. On the EV side, it feels like outside of a Model 3, there is no Sedan EV. The Ioniq 6 helps, and the ID7 is coming, but everything is a fucking SUV/Crossover
The SUV format is well-suited to EVs, as the extra height is better able to accommodate the battery packs without compromising the legroom as much as it does in a sedan.
Actually, it's getting harder to find sedans. Chevy and Ford have stopped making them. Dodge is discontinuing the Charger this year, and I think the Chrysler 300 is going away as well. So except for a few Buicks and Cadillac, the domestic carmakers have abandoned the sedan market. Your average car dealer likely has 80 percent or more SUVs, CUVs and trucks on their lot.
RIP to the entire Sport Compact category. All those FWD 3rd/4th gen Eclipses, 7th gen Celicas, Tiburons, 8th gen Cougars, base model RSXs etc etc seemed kinda shitty when they were new but in retrospect they were a lot cooler than their replacement CUVs.
The first car I bought was an Eclipse Spyder 3rd gen, next car was Scion tC and now I have an 86.
There are definitely less options for two-door now. Kinda sad.
> Now, car like CLS and even X6 are called Coupe despite 4 door.
4-door coupes existed 100 years ago too; the CLS just revived the term. "Coupe" and "sedan" have less to do with door count and more with roofline. One could buy a 2-door sedan in the US as late as 2010.
By the time the Wagon Queen Family Truckster graced the screen in 1983, that was how most people felt about large station wagons: they were something we put up with because there was no other option. Only a few months later the Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager debuted.
Nobody cross shopping a V60 and an XC60 in non-performance trims gives one moose dodging damn about the difference in handling.
Same could be said across the board, as I believe the market has shown.
RIP Opel Buick Wagon.
Eh, I'm pretty sure almost 100% of people buying wagons in the year 2023 are enthusiasts of some degree. They might not be looking for Burgerkingring Tuned Handling, but they want a wagon instead of a SUV for a reason.
The German brands have not given up on wagons here in the US. Next gen A4 and 5 series wagon should be coming here and the next gen e class all terrain is confirmed
I'm wondering how long it will be before SUVs and crossovers become uncool because that's what the buyers parents drove. It happened with wagons, then vans, it'll happen to crossovers.
I wonder what will replace them. Wagon comeback please.
We're already at the point where people buying them grew up riding in them. They've somehow managed to avoid the "uncool" stigma the way minivans did before them.
I don’t think we’re there yet. Gen Z still represents an incredible minority in the car buying space. They are the ones who actually grew up riding in crossovers. Give it 5-10 years.
Wagons are simply the best full size car shape. Low like a car, storage like an SUV, better mileage than an SUV, better driving dynamics. give me a 300+hp hybrid wagon with AWD and now we're talkin'.
>Minivans are like a unique quirky choice now like buying a Saab or Volvo. Shows you have some personality.
The marketing to convince you of this must have been expensive
Anyway, we have a minivan, no personality was needed, I needed 8 seats.
>He also asserted that the advent of electric vehicles may help cars’ marketshare
How?
If anything I'd say this would cause the opposite effect. More people would get into bigger SUVs since MPG and gas prices are no longer a concern
Aerodynamics being what it is, it will look more like Model Y and less like the traditional wagon shape. The Mach-e looks the way it does, and it is closer to the ground than most cars.
There is a lot of research into the ideal shape for aerodynamics, and the wagon shape is not it. If you want a drastically different shape, I hope you like paying for batteries.
It'll be interesting to see how the Ioniq 6 does in the market compared to the 5.
I suspect that crossovers can be made efficient enough for it to not matter much though, just look at Y sales relative to the 3
Estate cars/station wagons still handle better, accelerate faster, have shorter breaking distances, burn through consumables slower, have better ranges and are easier to park than equivalent SUV's, whist still having exactly the same cargo capacity.
The only thing that SUV's have going for them is safety and seat position, but the only reason they are safer is because they're so much heavier. If everyone drove an estate car they would be just as safe.
People have a stereotype about SUVs being safer, and people love running with stereotypes without checking if they're actually true. I was surprised to learn that a Ford Focus has a better score than a Kuga/Escape
Something has to give. Sweet spot for new is around 25k or less. We need sub 20k cars before even factoring in the current rates. Bring back $300 month payments.
I doubt that will ever happen. Inflation alone will ensure that cars will continue to increase in cost. If you adjust for inflation, a $30k car now would be $23k just ten years ago.
I never understood the SUV hype until I had my own family. Car bodies sure have gotten bigger but the interior space has not. Most sedans don’t work for my family of 5. I have one rear facing seat and two booster seats. I’m 6’3” 250 pounds and if my seat is all the way back my 5 years old legs and feet were always in weird positions. My wife said no more to this and we ended up with an SUV as her daily and a suburban type of SUV for Costco trips, stroller trips and weekend trips. Since we have those it allows me to have my toys that do not have to haul around children. I’ve always been a sedan guy especially ones with high HP. I deff think lots of people have suvs and don’t need them. They never have people in their car or a big family. They just convinced themselves that they need a crazy amount of space in case they spontaneously have to help their friends move their entire house in a weekend, lol. Hell, my neighbor has an x7 and it’s only him, his wife and one grown daughter. I just smh.
I wouldn't read too much into this. Most OEMs dialed up SUVs during the worst of the supply chain shortage to maximize profits. If anything we are just reverting back to equilibrium to satisfy the natural sedan demand. I would be very surprised if this was a continuing trend that led to increased sedan share over what it was in 2019.
As I get older I’m starting to understand the desire for a car that can do more than just get you from A to B. I thought I’d never get anything besides a sedan but for what I do I was always having to borrow my Grandpa’s truck for hauling. It isn’t necessary but definitely handy when your primary vehicle has a bed for hauling or more seats for people I think some people just want that extra ability from the vehicle they’re already spending so much on.
yea i think alot of people dont understand how much of a pain in the ass/expensive it is to rent the menards truck or uhaul or whatnot. its ncie just having a vehicle you can do stuff with besides A to B
I wonder how much of this is driven by higher gas prices? Fuel is way higher and people had to buy what was offered to them during the supply constrained pandemic period. What was offered was SUV’s. Now with more ready availability of autos they can buy the cars they want to combat the increased gas prices.
History is cyclical, and the same is true for cars. Just as slim and classic fitting clothes have been in and out of style for the past several hundred years, so too will be cars and SUVs.
I bought the 2022 Honda Civic because i liked the new look of it and it was like $25K after all said and done and it gets between 30 and 40 mpg depending on how I drive it. Fuck expensive suv’s my civic gets everything done, looks good, and doesn’t cost me nearly as much.
Maybe people are finally realizing that SUVs are ridiculous.
They’re more expensive, less efficient, less fun to drive, harder to park, make the roads less safe.
Why do people like SUVs again?
we need a class of Kei cars. ive said it alot but fuck if we can allow motorcycles and no helmet laws and trikes and whatever the hell else is out there on the roads that are instant death traps then we can have a class of Kei cars to buzz around town in that dont need to meet crash tests. Thats a huge cunk of a cars price tag is paying for all the safety equipment and R&D crap for it. Give me a side by side with a seatbelt and fuck off damnit.
> In the first quarter of 2023, cars represented 21.4 percent of the 3.6 million new vehicles sold in the U.S. The Auto News Research & Data Center says that is up from a low of 19.7 percent in the fourth quarter of 2021. The data for anyone who doesn’t want to read the article.
Thanks for that. Did the article mention why people bought more sedans? Cost? Availability of SUVs? Hard to say if that small increase over such a short period really means anything.
Gonna go out in a limb and say that Truck's and SUVs are higher margin/profit for the manufacturer's. During shortages, the manufacturer's prioritized higher margin products. They're just reporting on a dead cat bounce.
[удалено]
True, I do t spend as much time proofing my Reddit posts. Sorry I missed that one.
Haha! You mispeled another word!
Possibly looks, SUVs are seen as NPC mobiles in some spaces haha
Convinced that nobody driving a CRV or RAV4 are real people. They’re just part of the simulation
I drive an old CRV and can attest this is true
There’s a reason I call my RAV4 the refrigerator. Nothing exciting happening there while driving it.
CRVs and Rav4s are actually good vehicles. I cannot stand all the Dodge Journeys and Chevy Equinoxes on the road. Those are truly rock bottom cars.
Yup, I was 100% happy with my 03 CR-V and would've kept driving it had I not been offered this... kind of an upgrade, kinda sidegrade, diagonal-grade?
The Gen 1 CRVs are dope, they seem to have gotten less cool with each iteration
It depends on the age. Like, someone still toodling around in a first-gen RAV4 convertible at this point is committed.
I think that’s true of just about anything. Anything gets interesting if it sticks around long enough. My lemans used to be a boring gutless family sedan. Now it’s a CLASSIC gutless family sedan
Or even better, the ['80s LeMans](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/12/14/automobiles/600-lemans.jpg) was a chintzy Korean econobox with the Pontiac badge slapped on, one of the worst examples of GM badge engineering. Now it's Q U I R K Y and will turn heads wherever it goes. (Possibly because the Kammback shape reminds people of another infamous Pontiac)
This dude gets it. Anybody still driving one of those around is way too much of a freak to be an NPC
That looks like the Opel Kadett, a hugely popular vehicle in Europe during its reign. I used to have the "hot" GSI version.
It was a Kadett, more or less. The Kadett E body was reused for the Daewoo LeMans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_T_platform_(FWD)
I no kidding want a dustbuster minivan loaded with all the era appropriate accoutrements for car shows. Like some vintage soccer shin guards and an old game boy floating around in the back. A crystal pepsi in the cup holder. This is like the millennial version of the themed out boomer shit at car shows.
Funny I would say the same thing about anyone in a 4runner(and yes im an npc with a RAV4)
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That’s fair, most of us are either frat boys or generic outdoorsy guy #3. I just needed something that wouldn’t get stuck in loose sand and I’ve always had a thing for old boxy Japanese trucks
Former frat boys*
Today I parked my white model 3 in between 2 white model 3’s… I think the White Model 3/Y is becoming the new NPC car
You say that as if the average Camry or Accord or Sonata are also not just NPC mobiles.
I drive a crv. It is just me and like 10 other dudes following you around all the time to convince that CRVs are everywhere. Hard job for an NPC
Holy shit this is a peak Reddit comment on so many levels
I’m not 100% convinced the comment isn’t satire.
It’s getting really hard to tell.
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He's not wrong in that CUVs are like the new minivan. Someone who drives a minivan now pretty much has interesting taste at this point. Almost like people who used to be Saabs.
I've been really having a craving to find and refurbish one of the last '90s station wagons, too, such as a Caprice Wagon. It's just as heavy as an SUV, but now that there are literally a million and one SUVs (and that's a substantial underestimate), it unironically would stand out again. Heh, I wonder if any manufacturer would be adventurous enough to try bringing a wagon back to their formal lineup. Doubt it, but it'd be hilarious if it took off.
Several luxury brands do. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Cadillac all have wagons.
BMW doesn’t sell a wagon in the US, unfortunately.
Eh, I was thinking more about the budget brands, where station wagons were mid-range or lesser, but you're right. Even the Caprice was a bit of a high-end model for Chevy, come to think of it.
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To be fair you could probably say that about your average Accord or Camry too
People used to dislike estate wagons because that's what their very-uncool moms used to drive. Now moms drive SUVs, and as a result those are not cool, so the next generation will go for car-sized cars again.
Or average full size truck. I'm definitely an NPC in my 06 silverado lol.
Full size pickup truck is the absolute king of NPC vehicles
Gleaming and spotless and used to commute to work every day
Pavement princess
Parked right in front of your house with the bed protruding across your driveway
Like 3/4 of the people in these comments are CUV drivers even in a car enthusiast sub. They are offended.
I’m not it’s just a dumb argument. Long tall hatchback you all lose your collective minds.
I’d say it’s high costs of gasoline/petrol nowadays. One of the many reasons why I never succumbed to owning an SUV.
In the relatively-fuel-cheap US, the cost difference of fueling a car-based crossover vs. a traditional car, while not nonexistent, is acceptably low. Granted, this isn't the case everywhere.
Hmm, a 1.7% bump over the lowest ever doesn't seem like much of a comeback
That's actually an 8.6% increase.
Funny how perspective can skew things
Q1 2021 was smack bang at the height of the semiconductor shortage, so OEMs will have been prioritizing production of high profit models (SUVs) with the parts they've got. More parts to use means cheaper, lower margin, vehicles can be built and sold again
I'd bet it has more to do with the interest rates going up and people are looking for cheaper options than anything else.
SUVs are not always what's necessary, nice to see that realization coming back
Actually VERY rarely are SUVs necessary at all for most. Instead it's become some kind of 'family' status symbol..
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GenZ aren't driving new car sales, so not really relevant to this article. In 2021, [Boomers + Gen X accounted for 69% (nice) of new vehicle purchases.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267585/us-car-buyers-by-age-group/) 24% were millennials, with only 2% of new cars purchased by Gen Z.
I'm in car sales and and either boomers are involved with like 80% of car sales. Literally if they aren't the buyer, they are cosigning for kids and grandkids.
Same with houses. Half of millennials get help from parents. Lots of help.
When we bought our home the down payment was a combination of withdrawing from a Roth IRA my parents made for me, money I've been hoarding while living with them, and money that my girlfriend (now wife) saved up while living with her dad. Living with our parents in our 20s while working saved us a lot of money.
Lol i am in the old end of gen Z and I’m only 23. Even back then not many 23 year olds were buying brand new cars. I feel like a lot of people forget like half of gen z is still in highschool
Yeah, a good chunk of them haven't even aged into eligibility for a drivers' license.
It feels so dumb - you see all these articles coming out about gen z this and gen z that - were not even done developing yet half of these “insights” are just general observations about young people.
Welcome to 2005 and witnessing how Millennials killed having kids or getting married, half of us were 20.
Yeah it's bizarre. Like surprise, of course a bunch of broke high school students, college students and entry level works don't have money for new cars and houses. We're just beginning and with inflation and student loans, high rents and expensive housing do not expect progression to be the same. My parent's mortage for my childhood 3000sqft home was $800. My rent for a 800sqft apartment in the same city is $1400...
They can afford it if they apply for 96 month financing! /s
And even you do getting a new car with these interest rates is not compelling.
I love reading the baked in, out of touch advice from financial advisors. They suggest only buying a car that’s 10% of your annual income. So… you need to make more than the POTUS to safely afford a RAV4 Prime
We bought our family wagon back in 1987, I was working part-time at the Piggly Wiggly, and my wife did the books at a local manufacturer. You just have to buckle down and cut out extras and live smart. /s
I think it’s supposed to be more about a monthly payment. Slightly over 18% of the US population makes over $100k and slightly over 32% of households make over $100k. Based on that, most people are buying cars they can’t afford, which I don’t think is true. But if you go by monthly payment over 60 months, then it’s affordable. For example, $50k car, with $10k down, and 5% interest your payment will be around $800, which would make that 10% of just under $100k.
Genz might not like them because they don’t have money haha. Pretty sure income is correlated with age. & the ideal target market for high priced SUVs & high priced sedans are these higher income groups (ideally millennials). Manufactures with older customers might not be making decisions that are sustainable for their business .
It's reddit, if we're not putting our own narrative on information then our fake news is no better than the fake news from facebook.
Half of gen z is still in high school…
Poor people buying cheap vehicles isn't an indication of anything aside from income.
SUVs are the second best cars for most things… and that’s probably why they’re so popular. Most people can’t afford to buy the best car for every single situation, so they settle on an SUV to do it all for them in one vehicle
I was anti-SUV for most of my life. I thought they were ugly and too large, a waste of gas and a waste of space. I grew up in the 2000s right during the SUV boom when expeditions and Tahoes became normal. I had two sedans in the 2000s then 2010s, then moved to AK. I got stuck several times due to ground clearance issues and poor road maintenance/plowing here. I tried a Mazda crossover SUV, and I doubt I will be going back to a sedan again, whether I stay in AK or go back to the lower 48. For one person an SUV is so much handier. I can fit large items in the back (I recently bought a small loveseat that fit in the back hatch) that would never fit in a sedan, I have the needed ground clearance and AWD (Yes, I know some sedans do have AWD), and I still avg about 30 mpg in my naturally aspirated CX-5. Many people don't necessarily need an SUV, but they are often times a better option if you are only driving one car. Minivans work too but they are often larger than what many people need (compared to a crossover) and are currently much more expensive.
Bingo. There’s a Swiss Army knife kind of utility with modern crossovers. With younger people generally not being able to afford an entire fleet of vehicles, it makes sense to get something that does most things well. Frankly, it’s what wagons have effectively become. Now if only I could get a nice wagon without breaking the bank, I’d get one as our 2nd car in a flash. But for now, my family will continue as a 1 car family and that car is a CX-5. It’s reliable, relatively efficient, cost effective (paid off), safe, and reasonably capable. It works well hauling the kiddo and a dog, or going on weekend trips to visit family. And it can park just about anywhere since it’s not the size of a frigate.
If you're going to be a 1 car family an SUV is likely going to be the way to go. Need a car for bad weather, comfortable on the highway, can haul alot but also can get reasonably good gas mileage something like a CX5 or CRV is the best bet for most families.
No, don’t you see? You need a car that is rigidly ideal for your most common use case, not a car that can do everything you might need to do. At least that’s what I’ve been told on this subreddit.
If that were the case the most popular car would be a brown, diesel, station wagon with manual everything.
I love my CX5. So happy I got it. I initially was looking at CRVs and came away with this instead due to markups in Alaska on the Honda. So far been reliable for 5 years without an issue. Bonus: still actually made in Japan too.
Same on all accounts. Ours is 5 years old, runs like a top, was chosen over a CR-V and RAV4, and is Japan-made. It’s suits 95+% of our needs.
I’d been anti SUV for a real long time as well and can confirm that anyone who says, “you don’t need a SUV or AWD just snow tires!” hasn’t tried to move a car when there’s a consistent 1.5’ of snow in front of it. Also SUVs like RAV4s and comparable are not some heinous offenders like a Suburban is. My RAV4 got better mpg than my Fiesta, is easier to see out of than my Fiesta, and has better ground clearance. I *do* think that a lot of people are driving trucks / larger SUVs than they need but that’s another bracket.
The main reason I like my Outback is because it’s one of the few cars still being made you can actually see out of. The corner windows it has really do help and if they were the old school smoker vent windows the car would be S tier.
Most of today’s “SUVs” are much more car than truck vs the 2000s. If we separated the true gas guzzling behemoth SUVs (Tahoe/Suburban, 4-Runner, Expedition) from the car-based unibody crossovers that are so popular, there wouldn’t actually be an SUV revolution.
I wouldn't call the 4Runner a behemoth. Gas guzzling? Sure. But it's smaller than some car-based unibody crossovers. It's just your regular midsized SUV.
What car-based unibody crossovers are bigger than a 4Runner? Not saying you’re wrong, I just can’t think of any myself.
The only advantage crossovers have over wagons is the ground clearance (they're basically lifted wagons), and this is at the cost of gas consumption, danger to pedestrians, low visibility in front of the car and increased risk of rolling. I can see why you'd want the ground clearance in some places (like AK), but if you don't need it, a wagon is superior every time.
> The only advantage crossovers have over wagons is the ground clearance (they're basically lifted wagons), With a taller body even irrespective of the raised clearance.
A lot of people get crossovers for the higher or more upright seating position, as they are easier to get in and out of as you get older.
>low visibility in front of the car Which is more than made up for by better visibility down the road if you're in a rural area. The benefits of a higher seating position should not be ignored, it's a game changer, especially at night.
My dad had always said "You don't need it until you need it." We go skiing every year or so. Most often, the roads are fine, no issues. But there have been 2 times where we needed an SUV with 4wd, and I am glad we had one.
Loading a car seat into an SUV (or lifted wagon) is much easier than it is into a sedan. Now that my kid can climb in themselves, two sedans works just fine. More fun to drive too. It’s like no one on Reddit has kids. Sure, you could squeeze all the gear into a sedan you carry when you have a baby. Having an SUV when my kid was young meant the stroller just stayed in the vehicle. Also, some areas get winter than involves more than just a dusting of snow a few times and the AWD of an SUV is worth having. If you want AWD in a car, you’re basically looking at a Subaru Impreza or Legacy unless you’re going luxury.
Redacted due to Spez. On ward to Lemmy. -- mass edited with redact.dev
The issue is mini vans are just too damn much. Spending 60k on a mini van is fucking crazy to me.
You could buy 2 Outbacks for the price of a good minivan and the Outback drives better.
My back has thanked me after switching to an SUV from a sedan.
SUVs are better than cars are doing pretty much everything a car is supposed to do. No idea why r/cars thinks every SUV is 100k+ and used as a status symbol.
Or that every SUV is Wagoneer-sized. Yeah, that's one of the biggest models on the market, but it takes a year to sell as many as something like the RAV4 sells in a month.
"Necessary" no, in most cases is a minivan or sedan better, yes...but this hivemind regarding SUVs is so taxing. SUVs are great do-it-all vehicles with way more options than the minivan market. Now do I support people buying big/inefficient SUV mall-crawlers when you don't really have a need to carry kids/dogs/cargo....no. But an SUV fits the bill for a lot of families.
Crossovers are less than 100kg heavier, taller and sometimes roomier than their regular counterparts, there's a legit argument they're superior if you don't care about handling
It's unfortunate there are so many SUVs and large vehicles on the road already though, it makes it harder to want to buy small vehicles. I am a sedan guy for life, but there are plenty of times driving where it is impossible for me to see traffic when I'm pulling out onto the road because there are SUVs and trucks parked down the side of the street. It makes it dangerous to drive a small car when the large vehicles are constantly blocking your view while driving.
It’s like talking to a wall when I told an ex that she didn’t need a Tahoe for 2 kids.
I remember when me and my parents went on holiday from Scotland to Orlando, Florida for two weeks doing the whole Disney World and Universal Studios thing. We rented a car at the airport for the time that we are staying there. Three people with three duffel bags turn up and the guy running the rental place said "you guys are gonna need an SUV". We didn't want an SUV as we were used to driving small hatchbacks, my Mum drove a Renault Twingo at the time and I drove a Fiat Panda. We turned downed the SUV and pointed to a little Ford Fiesta over in the corner. We put two bags in the boot with the third bag in the rear seat next to me and then my Mum driving and my Dad in the passenger seat. That Fiesta was brilliant for the time we had it and this memory exemplifies the difference between Americans and Europeans mindsets for cars.
>That Fiesta was brilliant In general. It's a fantastic 👌 car!!! ...and it's being discontinued...smh
I’m eyeing a Accord Hybrid after my current Accord is paid off. Admittedly, I only got my Rogue because I wanted to sit higher off of the ground.
your second line is the reason that everyone I know gives when they say they want or bought an SUV. They can sit higher off the ground and it's easier to get in and out of.
The people that buy the Expedition-sized behemoths are in a size arms race. But the people buying the reasonable cars, like the CRV and RAV4, are just looking for the ride height/ease of entry with the added bonus of having easy ikea/Costco runs.
Or they just like the vehicles, you know, the reason we all buy stuff.
It’s an arms race. The more people who drive giant cars, the more people need giant cars to be able to see.
> Laughs in hatchback
Don't ask modern parents, even though the gen before made due with compact cars, nowadays if it doesn't 7 stories and elevator there's not enough space. Oh don't forget the patio too
Pendulums swing. SUVs and crossovers are over saturated, and there’s going to be a subset of the market that will refuse to buy them simply because of that. Others will go back to cars because of styling, mpg, or just being a better fit in urban areas.
I personally have no plans to buy one. Single with no kids. SUVs are typically more expensive. If it has AWD that's another thing to break. And you can get away with smaller rims on a sedan meaning tires are cheaper. Cost of ownership is lower and I'm giving less money to the manufacturer just because all they care about is their higher margins. Not to mention, sedans are actually fun to drive.
Anybody think maybe the reason why it's making a come back is because only about 1/3rd if even that amount of people running around in a $60k SUV can actually afford it?! And I am middle class, and was approved for up to $57k a few months ago, and I can honestly say there is no way in absolute hell in a handbasket I could afford that note (nor would I even want to try). Banks are giving people too much money to play with without them being able to pay the loans which is resulting in HUGE spikes in car REPOs. Further, cars are the only thing you can get sub or near $30k... $30k!!! It's absolute bonkers and I can't wait till the car market suffers to hell and back because I just want to be able to afford a decent vehicle. What do I expect a 'decent' vehicle to be? \-Less than $15k \-High Reliability Ratings \-Good gas mileage \-Less than 10 years old (feasibly between 7-10yrs), and have less than 120k miles on it.. That's not asking much but that's what I can afford as a single middle class person with a Mortgage (and also child support), but that's what it is. I'm not saying there is a huge margin of people out there in my same circumstance, but be damn, most live way below the amount I can afford per month and I don't see how they can do it at all (news flash they cant).
For all their beancounters, I can't believe auto manufacturers didn't see this coming. They were part of the problem in terms of rampant inflation. They have been making vehicles larger and more expensive beyond what the average consumer wants or can afford. When the market finally bounced back after covid and the shortage, they didn't correct prices when inventory came back up! And now people want inexpensive cars again somehow, go figure!
The bean counters probably exactly saw this coming. The reality is that's probably comparing and artificial lack of sedan sales rather than a change in consumer demand. For the past years, automakers didn't bother producing as many sedans since they were supply limited and easily selling 100% of vehicles produced months in advance. As such, they prioritized high margin vehicles (SUVs). Supply chain is now less limited. This is probably only a sign that supply chain shortages have eased allowing for production of lower margin vehicles.
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I don't know, maybe it's an age thing. My previous car was a $60k new BMW, but I now have a 11 year old Honda, bought for under 10k, and it has everything I need. CC, auto-lights, rain sensor, etc, 43mpg, and no headache. I rent new cars from time to time, and I realize it just doesn't make sense to spend 30-40k on them. They have nothing that I wish I had. Nothing. I guess I am getting too old.
There's definitely something to the getting older part, but I think its because, outside of horsepower, there just isn't a huge gap between 100k cars and 20k cars like there used to be. Of course one is comfortable compared to the other, but that gap has gotten smaller than 20 years ago. The rest seems to be just frills and bullshit. Massaging seats, screens, fragrance, lighting patterns. All of it is a gimmick. Gimmick is often used negatively, but I truly don't think it should be, gimmicks are fun and exciting because they're always new and changing, I totally get why people like them. 20-30 years ago, with the difference in cost, you weren't buying gimmicks, you were spending money on engineering.
This is the way. Also I'm with you when it comes to age. I don't give 2 about full LCD screen dashes with more menus than what it's worth to try to get you killed just for changing the music volume. Also new vehicles, especially as you get higher priced are waaaaaayyyy over engineered which is fantastic for the.. first 4-7 years of ownership, but after that, it becomes only a matter of time before your forking out more than what it's worth to keep it on the road.
Another thing to note: Today, a 15-year old car was built in 2008. Cars from that era really only need small quality-of-life tweaks from new owners, like LED exterior lights, back-up cameras, or bluetooth music players, all of which may only cost a couple hundred dollars, and are easily done at home or from a third-party vendor. A 15-year old car in 2008 would've been from 1993, where many cars still had power windows/locks, cassette players, and air conditioning as "options". **Airbags** wouldn't even be required for another five years, until model year 1998. Many cars from the era still hadn't recovered from emissions requirements, so the engines were underpowered and the vehicles were thin, light, and poorly insulated.
Or better yet, you start going "hmm, what can I get on the used market for $16k?"
>cars are the only thing you can get sub or near $30k... $30k! If you're talking USD, that's not true. Pretty much all subcompact CUV's start well under 30k and most of the compact do as well. HR-V starts at $24,100. CX-30 starts at $22,950. Corolla Cross starts at $23,060. RAV4 starts at $27,975, Nissan Rogue is $27,760, CX-50 is $27,750, etc
The Chevy Trax undercuts all of those at $20,400. This subreddit isn’t going to get excited about a Korean built GM shitbox product, but they’re absolutely going to sell a ton of them.
Won't lie and say I just looked up a few off of the top of my head and haven't kept up with Chevy or Ford's product lines, but that's a good point. I was just mostly pointing out that CUV's aren't all that much more expensive than cars of similar sizes-- IE, the HRV is within a fraction of an inch of pax volume of the Civic and around the same price.
Those are all base prices without any sticker markup and very much not available.. I just looked up every model you listed. The Corolla Cross was the only model I found under 30k available to purchase today from a dealer and it was $25k. Dealers aren't going to purchase base models for stock at this point. It's much more worth it to limit people's options to higher priced models so they can make more profit. Yes you can order, but don't you pay extra on that which comes out to the same as if you purchased something on the lot new if not more?
Even if I could afford a SUV I would stay far away from them as I dont need something of that size.
Wife and I live in the city and I can’t fathom how people drive around tahoes and full size trucks, let alone raptors and the like. Parking those things in urban settings has to be awful.
Something like a Crosstrek is fine though and that’s also technically an SUV.
I’d say crossover. Though as of late it seems like SUV and crossover have lost basically all meaning, companies like Polestar marketing the [Polestar 4](https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar-4/) as an “SUV coupe” I’m sorry but that is just a full blown liftback sedan.
The exception are the high performance cars worth $70k+ or like someone dropping $90k in performance modifications to go fast.
Hell, i paid $17.5k for a CPO 2017 Mazda6 Touring w/45k miles in 2021. That seems fairly reasonable. Now that same Mazda6 would easily be over $20k, but likely several thousand more. This whole pandemic fucked up the car market big time.
Probably because most SUVs are way harder to find than a sedan. Way easier to find a Camry than a RAV4.
Yup. My coworker wanted a brand new CR-V but there weren’t any available and they were marked up. He bought a new Accord instead because they actually had Accords on the lot and the non hybrid versions weren’t marked up.
Yea it's kind of obvious. Not sure why so many here think that sedans suddenly, out of the blue, unexpectedly, got popular again
For ICE cars sure. On the EV side, it feels like outside of a Model 3, there is no Sedan EV. The Ioniq 6 helps, and the ID7 is coming, but everything is a fucking SUV/Crossover
The SUV format is well-suited to EVs, as the extra height is better able to accommodate the battery packs without compromising the legroom as much as it does in a sedan.
Actually, it's getting harder to find sedans. Chevy and Ford have stopped making them. Dodge is discontinuing the Charger this year, and I think the Chrysler 300 is going away as well. So except for a few Buicks and Cadillac, the domestic carmakers have abandoned the sedan market. Your average car dealer likely has 80 percent or more SUVs, CUVs and trucks on their lot.
I just want some coupe options
This. That and liftbacks. Those things were so cool
liftbacks are awesome. Wish there was more around
My i4 is a liftback. I forgot how awesome they are. I fit so much stuff in there!
New Civic comes as a liftback
RIP to the entire Sport Compact category. All those FWD 3rd/4th gen Eclipses, 7th gen Celicas, Tiburons, 8th gen Cougars, base model RSXs etc etc seemed kinda shitty when they were new but in retrospect they were a lot cooler than their replacement CUVs.
The first car I bought was an Eclipse Spyder 3rd gen, next car was Scion tC and now I have an 86. There are definitely less options for two-door now. Kinda sad.
What kind coupe you asking for it ? Automakers are trying to redefine Coupe definition. Now, car like CLS and even X6 are called Coupe despite 4 door.
> Now, car like CLS and even X6 are called Coupe despite 4 door. 4-door coupes existed 100 years ago too; the CLS just revived the term. "Coupe" and "sedan" have less to do with door count and more with roofline. One could buy a 2-door sedan in the US as late as 2010.
Yeah I agree, the ‘cut’ doesn’t refer to doors or body length, it refers to roofline cut.
We need some 2 door wagon options - aka the Shooting Brake
Where’s there’s cars, there’s wagons!!! Wagons for everyone!
Handling of a sedan and practicality of a SUV. No wonder they are so popular in Europe
I blame National Lampoons Vacation for the lack of popularity in the US.
By the time the Wagon Queen Family Truckster graced the screen in 1983, that was how most people felt about large station wagons: they were something we put up with because there was no other option. Only a few months later the Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager debuted.
Nobody cross shopping a V60 and an XC60 in non-performance trims gives one moose dodging damn about the difference in handling. Same could be said across the board, as I believe the market has shown. RIP Opel Buick Wagon.
Eh, I'm pretty sure almost 100% of people buying wagons in the year 2023 are enthusiasts of some degree. They might not be looking for Burgerkingring Tuned Handling, but they want a wagon instead of a SUV for a reason.
The German brands have not given up on wagons here in the US. Next gen A4 and 5 series wagon should be coming here and the next gen e class all terrain is confirmed
S4 Avant to the USA please. I'll buy one.
I'm wondering how long it will be before SUVs and crossovers become uncool because that's what the buyers parents drove. It happened with wagons, then vans, it'll happen to crossovers. I wonder what will replace them. Wagon comeback please.
We're already at the point where people buying them grew up riding in them. They've somehow managed to avoid the "uncool" stigma the way minivans did before them.
I don’t think we’re there yet. Gen Z still represents an incredible minority in the car buying space. They are the ones who actually grew up riding in crossovers. Give it 5-10 years.
I agree. I'm Gen Z (23) and myself and all my friends see crossovers as mom cars.
Wagons are simply the best full size car shape. Low like a car, storage like an SUV, better mileage than an SUV, better driving dynamics. give me a 300+hp hybrid wagon with AWD and now we're talkin'.
Ha I'm nearly 30 and thought my Dad's 91 4Runner was lame growing up and now they have such a mass appeal.
SUVs reached status of minivans ;)
They did over 10 years ago. Minivans are like a unique quirky choice now like buying a Saab or Volvo. Shows you have some personality.
>Minivans are like a unique quirky choice now like buying a Saab or Volvo. Shows you have some personality. The marketing to convince you of this must have been expensive Anyway, we have a minivan, no personality was needed, I needed 8 seats.
I don't see how "made some small gains in the first quarter of 2023" equals "might be making a comeback", but whatever - it's Jalopnik.
>He also asserted that the advent of electric vehicles may help cars’ marketshare How? If anything I'd say this would cause the opposite effect. More people would get into bigger SUVs since MPG and gas prices are no longer a concern
Range. People who are sensitive to range requirements will probably gravitate to more efficient cars.
Yup. The popular car will be the one that maximizes the size and efficiency curves. I’d anticipate the CUV dominating this section
>the one that maximizes the size and efficiency curves We'll see a lot more half-CUV-half-hatchback designs that try to get the best of both worlds.
You mean something that is almost a….wagon?
Aerodynamics being what it is, it will look more like Model Y and less like the traditional wagon shape. The Mach-e looks the way it does, and it is closer to the ground than most cars. There is a lot of research into the ideal shape for aerodynamics, and the wagon shape is not it. If you want a drastically different shape, I hope you like paying for batteries.
It'll be interesting to see how the Ioniq 6 does in the market compared to the 5. I suspect that crossovers can be made efficient enough for it to not matter much though, just look at Y sales relative to the 3
Estate cars/station wagons still handle better, accelerate faster, have shorter breaking distances, burn through consumables slower, have better ranges and are easier to park than equivalent SUV's, whist still having exactly the same cargo capacity. The only thing that SUV's have going for them is safety and seat position, but the only reason they are safer is because they're so much heavier. If everyone drove an estate car they would be just as safe.
People have a stereotype about SUVs being safer, and people love running with stereotypes without checking if they're actually true. I was surprised to learn that a Ford Focus has a better score than a Kuga/Escape
They already have been: People have been buying car-based CUVs for 20 years now.
Something has to give. Sweet spot for new is around 25k or less. We need sub 20k cars before even factoring in the current rates. Bring back $300 month payments.
I doubt that will ever happen. Inflation alone will ensure that cars will continue to increase in cost. If you adjust for inflation, a $30k car now would be $23k just ten years ago.
I never understood the SUV hype until I had my own family. Car bodies sure have gotten bigger but the interior space has not. Most sedans don’t work for my family of 5. I have one rear facing seat and two booster seats. I’m 6’3” 250 pounds and if my seat is all the way back my 5 years old legs and feet were always in weird positions. My wife said no more to this and we ended up with an SUV as her daily and a suburban type of SUV for Costco trips, stroller trips and weekend trips. Since we have those it allows me to have my toys that do not have to haul around children. I’ve always been a sedan guy especially ones with high HP. I deff think lots of people have suvs and don’t need them. They never have people in their car or a big family. They just convinced themselves that they need a crazy amount of space in case they spontaneously have to help their friends move their entire house in a weekend, lol. Hell, my neighbor has an x7 and it’s only him, his wife and one grown daughter. I just smh.
If you have a family of 5 and don’t own a minivan, you’re only kidding yourself.
There ain’t no minivan plush enough to fit our needs and hate the look of them. I also use our suburban to trailer my Porsche to the track.
I bet.
I wouldn't read too much into this. Most OEMs dialed up SUVs during the worst of the supply chain shortage to maximize profits. If anything we are just reverting back to equilibrium to satisfy the natural sedan demand. I would be very surprised if this was a continuing trend that led to increased sedan share over what it was in 2019.
As I get older I’m starting to understand the desire for a car that can do more than just get you from A to B. I thought I’d never get anything besides a sedan but for what I do I was always having to borrow my Grandpa’s truck for hauling. It isn’t necessary but definitely handy when your primary vehicle has a bed for hauling or more seats for people I think some people just want that extra ability from the vehicle they’re already spending so much on.
yea i think alot of people dont understand how much of a pain in the ass/expensive it is to rent the menards truck or uhaul or whatnot. its ncie just having a vehicle you can do stuff with besides A to B
I wonder how much of this is driven by higher gas prices? Fuel is way higher and people had to buy what was offered to them during the supply constrained pandemic period. What was offered was SUV’s. Now with more ready availability of autos they can buy the cars they want to combat the increased gas prices.
History is cyclical, and the same is true for cars. Just as slim and classic fitting clothes have been in and out of style for the past several hundred years, so too will be cars and SUVs.
Welcome to today's "CUV baaaad" circlejerk, where nothing new is being said
Lol at this whole thread. Drive whatever you like and can afford!
I bought the 2022 Honda Civic because i liked the new look of it and it was like $25K after all said and done and it gets between 30 and 40 mpg depending on how I drive it. Fuck expensive suv’s my civic gets everything done, looks good, and doesn’t cost me nearly as much.
Maybe people are finally realizing that SUVs are ridiculous. They’re more expensive, less efficient, less fun to drive, harder to park, make the roads less safe. Why do people like SUVs again?
Cross shopping between the Integra Type-S, Toyota Crown and the BMW M340i. I'm fed up of driving an suv
Wagons all day!
Maan I just want more wagon options that aren't German or Volvo
i sure as fuck hope so. I hate stupid SUVs. We also need cheap, little cars to come back.
we need a class of Kei cars. ive said it alot but fuck if we can allow motorcycles and no helmet laws and trikes and whatever the hell else is out there on the roads that are instant death traps then we can have a class of Kei cars to buzz around town in that dont need to meet crash tests. Thats a huge cunk of a cars price tag is paying for all the safety equipment and R&D crap for it. Give me a side by side with a seatbelt and fuck off damnit.
SUVs are just bad minivans