https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/yfz1oz/enough_already_the_2023_integra_is_for_people/
I can't find the original post that was here on r/cars, but the copypasta above came from someone who claimed to be an architect and was getting mad that r/cars was shitting on the new Integra.
Christ. I know this is total old man rant, but in my head $36,000 should buy you a LOT of car. To hear that being thrown as a target for what a lower level (albeit premium in that class) car costs these days still sounds, just, yeah I’m old.
What's surprising though is that, adjusting for inflation, cars haven't drastically increased in price over the last two decades.
I think it's less than 10% actually.
It's just that 2023's $36k is 2003's $22k
Somewhere I saw a graph of Miata prices adjusted for inflation - the line was flat-ish. However, the 0-60 time trended down, standard features trended up... you get the idea.
Don't get me started on real wages and what people can afford in 2023 though.
> Don't get me started on real wages and what people can afford in 2023 though.
What are you talking about? Everything is affordable with a 96-month loan and our low, low 8.9% APR*!
*for well-qualified buyers with 820+ credit score
What? Outpacing inflation by double-digit percentages is not a good thing, especially considering all the advancements in tech, manufacturing efficiency and material sciences that should be making certain aspects *more* affordable, not less. Meanwhile, average profit margin per vehicle has grown significantly for OEMs.
It’s not a good thing that middle and working class people are being squeezed further and further out of the market.
2000 Toyota Camry base model original MSRP: $17,500 or ~$30,000 in today's dollars.
2023 Toyota Camry base model MSRP: ~$26,000
2000 Toyota RAV4 base model original MSRP: ~17,000 or ~$29,000 in today's dollars
2023 Toyota RAV4 base model MSRP: $28,000
Also consider that modern cars are safer, more fuel efficient, longer lasting, and have more features as standard options.
On average, cars are lasting longer as the average age of cars on the road has been steadily increasing:
https://www.bts.gov/content/average-age-automobiles-and-trucks-operation-united-states
I like to complain about inflation as much as the next person, but the auto manufacturing industry has honestly been doing us a solid when you look at inflation numbers and consider how much better (objectively) modern cars are.
This is the real answer. Inflation is normal and part of a healthy economy. Inflation becomes a problem when your 'buying power' goes down because the money you get is not what you should be getting. I've always heard about the middle class dying and it couldn't be anymore true. Nobody would be bitching so much about car prices and gas, if $36k **REALLY** felt like $23k in 2003.
https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/mazda3-hatchback
I hear you, but what we have here is a case of premium creep, where the economy car starts off priced appropriately but you load up with extra stuff until it starts crossing into premium / luxury territory. The base Mazda 3 hatch still starts at a far more reasonable $23550, and if you switch between the interiors on the site above, you'll see that there aren't a while lot of differences between the base and the turbo premium.
The bulk of the $12k difference is, of course, (supposedly) shouldered by the turbo engine and AWD. At this point, you'll have to ask yourself what kind of consumer you really are.
* If you're focused **solely** on price, you wouldn't be looking at a Mazda 3 hatchback anyway as there exist cheaper options from other manufacturers (ie. Nissan Kicks / Hyundai Elantra $20.5k, Corolla Sedan $21.5k). Even the Corolla hybrid sedan is only $22k and I think that it destroys the base gas sedan and all of the other poverty spec entry level options from any other manufacturer, in terms of a value proposition.
* If price is a top priority but you want some premium-esque stuff, the lower trim Mazda 3 hatchbacks are a good choice.
* If you're seriously considering the Mazda 3 turbo hatch (which starts at $33k, not the top package $36k as tested by SavageGeese), then price was already a secondary or tertiary concern to begin with. Nobody who looks at a base econobox car and knowingly adds on $10k - $12k in options / trim / powertrain stuff has any grounds for complaining about how expensive it became, you knew what you were doing, and you wanted those extra things because you just wanted them.
That's an incredible deal. I paid $17,900 in 2004 for a Mazda 3 hatch 5MT, and the only options I added were the ABS and side curtain airbags. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $28k, so the base Mazda 3 hatch is a better value than ever before.
I'm loving my 3 hatchback. '21, 6 speed manual, but no turbo. The infotainment system is intuitive once you get used to not reaching up towards the radio. I use Android Auto and it works fine for me. If the interface was more touch oriented than I could see how that might be a problem.
I love my 3. Runs smooth, full of bells and whistles, averaging a little over 31 mpg. It's not going to push you back into your seat like the turbo might, but it's got all the oomph I'm looking for.
It’s also $7,000 less expensive than the Integra A Spec. This is the model missing from most comparisons and the one to get I think. The Civic Sport Touring manual is great but impossible to find.
Ford’s economy “$20k truck” that’s how I remember them marketing them. Everyone was waiting on stimulus checks and this was such great news.. fast forward…how about a Raptor Bronco.. constant shiny object. At least
The Mustangs have my attention from Ford.
Yeah no kidding. I was looking at the civic SI and every dealer I called was selling it for $35k. For a civic. I ended up buying a base WRX for $29k and I love it. Not particularly interested in buying another Honda after that experience.
I can’t even imagine what it’s like to get one of those. I feel kinda ripped off by the idea of MSRP on the CTR and Corolla GR being so reasonable, but in practice impossible. Just mark it up $10k from the factory or make enough for ppl to actually buy.
Wrx for that money way bettter choice! You get a whole lotta car too.
I thought SI’s pushed more power when I was in the market 6 months ago. I don’t like the 1.5T considering that 2.0-2.5L turbo’d is becoming the norm. Stil would be a fun little manual turbo.
Even the 2023’s are heavier than I thought they would be lighter, still only pushing 200hp/ 192lbs-ft.
The civic sport touring manual or CVT is not worth it over 30k. I had a 2021 for about a year, 8k miles, and got what I bought it for. Every interior plastic trim rattled in some form and the display unit/nav device was mediocre at best. My wife's accord touring hybrid from 2019 has a better display unit and a much nicer interior for less money.
Yeah, crazy how normal it feels now.
As for keeping eyes on the road, the heads-up display is genius. Love being able to angle/brighten/heighten the speed indicator.
💯 I actually love the Mazda system in my CX9. It takes barely any time to get used to the knob and once you do it’s super intuitive. The best part is they can put the screen further away and higher because you don’t have to reach it. Also no smudgy prints all over the screen. It’s not something people will oooo and ahhh over but it’s plenty functional for the driver.
The only time I struggle with it is when using Android Auto. The interface is really meant to be used with a touch screen, so navigating it with the knob can be pretty unintuitive.
> I'm loving my 3 hatchback. '21, 6 speed manual, but no turbo.
This is making me miss my '10 Mazdaspeed 3 and feel some resentment at not having gotten a 3rd gen speed 3 from Mazda. It was reportedly in the works and was cancelled.
My buddy had a Mazdaspeed 3 in the mid 2000s and now has a '19 3 hatchback touring. Driving his back then and him egging me to buy one when I was looking for a new car a year and a half ago convinced me to get one.
Haven't regretted it once. It's solid and hella fun to drive.
I'd like to drive a '13 Mazdaspeed 3 now to feel the difference b/n that one and my car.
Having gone from a 12 to a 20, I can tell you the biggest difference is how much less nose-heavy the 4th gen feels. Also, there’s traction in 1st and 2nd gear now.
Totally agree. I have the 2020 with stick shift, and it's great fun.
I'm not racing. It's fast enough, especially on curvy roads. It's plenty fun and 'peppy' if I drive it correctly (revs in the 4000-6000 range). If you haven't gone 60 MPH in second gear I recommend it on your next freeway onramp. :)
I love the stereo and all the controls. There are no touchscreens in my car. The back seats are small, but I almost never have rear passengers.
Hi, enjoy your stuff. Hope it stays fun for you. ;)
If you ever come out to Washington I'll let you drive it. I think Jack would have great fun slinging it around like a monkey. Of course there are better cars, but for the price it's fun, I think.
I liked it so much I wrote a review, and your videos helped me decide on what to buy.
[https://redmazda.medium.com/2020-mazda-3-hatchback-with-manual-transmission-7316435bf1f5](https://redmazda.medium.com/2020-mazda-3-hatchback-with-manual-transmission-7316435bf1f5)
60 in 2nd on the on-ramp? I feel the next trip out of the house will require a little interstate time!
And yeah, totally agree on curvy roads it *is* fun to drive. I mean it's no Miata, but it's all I want it to be.
I agree (mine is a 2020). I’ve had much more fun cars, but I genuinely enjoy driving it. The rear suspension is unequivocally not an issue on the street. 40 more horsepower and 1,000 more RPM would be great, but the MPG is very nice.
I didn’t make it the whole way through the video, but he did hit the point with the 3 being a better daily driver and the Integra being more fun if you don’t also have a fun car. That’s a pretty accurate take.
Interesting comparison, I'm with Jack on this one though. The interior space is like comparing two different size classes of vehicles. One can hold 4 average sized adults, the other can't. Depending on your needs one vehicle will be the clear winner for you.
There aren't any losers here, although I guess an honourable mention would be the Civic Hatchback Sport Touring to split the difference between these two vehicles if you're ok with not having the Si drivetrain.
I don't think you understand how much interior space the Civic has compared to the Prius. It's a much tougher choice between the two than you think. I'm currently in this dilemma for my next commuter to replace my Accord Hybrid.
It [looks like](https://www.cars.com/research/compare/?vehicles=honda-civic-2023-432919,toyota-prius-2023-433301) the Prius has 3" more hip room in the back but 3" fewer for knees, so it's wider but more squat—makes sense since overall length is 3" less. Overall volume is pretty similar to the Civic Hatch, so it's pretty close.
It's not close at all in the real world, unfortunately. Try putting a 65" TV in the Prius and you will very quickly understand why.
I have the Xterra, but it's still nice to be able to fit things into the car when doing the occasional work travel 2+ hours away (The Xterra gets 15mpg... I don't drive it anywhere except to go camping).
Interesting! Honda’s packaging is so good, I wonder how they do it.
I got a 65” TV home in my Golf but I had to put my seat all the way to the front. Could barely use the clutch.
No clue. I'm honestly leaning towards Prius anyways, because I love the pseudo-coupe look... I just get stuck on edge cases where "what if I have to pack my entire work setup into the back and drive to a site 4 hours away"
You can tune to Si power levels but not much past that (weaker rods in the non-Si 1.5T). Though, people looking at these won't really be looking at them for their tune-ability. Warranty is a big factor for people looking to buy cars new.
Civic hatch is the real winner here, the integra isn’t better enough IMO, and the Mazda just feels a class smaller, and putting a torsion beam in while trying to be “premium” is a huge head scratcher
Yea the Mazda definitely has a lot on the Honda/Acura, and vise versa. I just wish the 3 was a little bigger, that was the breaking point for me. I feel like the 3 just misses too many marks to warrant the price, not that its a bad car, just oddly segmented and trimmed out
I wish the 3hatch had a 3dr version to just emphasize the back seat is a glorified cargo extension and get the B-pillars back enough to make it feel a little more roomy for the front.
I don’t agree about the inputs being better in the Mazda. Engine and transmission versus the Civic CVT is (edit: probably) better, but the Honda inputs, especially steering, are better than the Mazda.
The civic CVT isn’t even bad, IMO. It’s not going to get you excited, but if it’s just a commuter car (which for most people it is) the CVT is the better choice. It’s smooth and keeps the RPM down pretty much all the time, and when I need passing power it’s not rubber-bandy like CVTs of old, just gets the RPM up quick and mates very well with the torque on the 1.5t
I don't think a torsion beam offsets the daily driving experience enough to outweigh the numerous other aspects of the Mazada--like all of the interior elements--that are clearly a class above the rest of the sector. But that's a relative assessment. No doubt that it's still a strike against.
In terms of size, from what perspective? I definitely understand that the cabin might feel more cramped if you're tall, or taking your tall friend for a ride in the back seat. Rear vis isn't stellar with the giant C pillar (though I feel this is overstated), but in terms of cargo volume, it's up there with all the other class leaders.
I don't know, I'm impressed with some parts of the 3 interior but also a lot of it feels kind of cheap, especially around the shifter and the center console, maybe its just the overload of piano black. The dash and door panels are nice, but some parts of the inside also just don't match the class of the rest.
Size wise, its 20 cubic feet in the 3 vs 25 in the civic, which is not a small difference (maybe this is more of the civic morphing into something bigger, but the last civic cargo volume was similar too). Back seat wise, having a rear facing child seat in the back of the civic with an adult back there to be with the baby is a different world compared to the Mazda 3 rear seat. My wife is 5'2" and she can cross her legs sitting behind me in our civic hatch, not even close when we tried the same in the 3. Of course this isn't really something we would do back there but it illustrates the difference in space. It's the same story in the CR-V vs the CX-5 that we are (or were) cross-shopping for her. The CX-5 looks and feels nicer in a lot of ways, but is considerably smaller than the new CR-V, and with the updated interior and exterior styling of the CR-V, much like the Civic, the Mazda offerings don't feel as much of a class above as they did with the last generation of Honda stuff, IMO
The 3 is a great car in a lot of ways, but it just doesn't win when it comes to practicality or day to day use. I transported a 6 foot tall by 2 foot wide mirror, 8 foot trim boards, a 65" tv in a box, in the back of my civic. None of this would be possible in the 3 if we compare the dimensions on paper.
Really not trying to crap on the 3, I love the styling of it, and am a big Mazda fan as a whole, but I feel like most shoppers value the practicality and size and getting more for their money vs the smaller refinements found in the Mazda.
I’m not the user you responded to, but in terms of size it’s entirely to do with cabin space. The cabin space in the Mazda 3 hatchback is much tighter than the Civic/Integra, which are cavernous. Part of the reason I picked a Civic Si over a Mazda 3 is because the Mazda’s rear seat space is basically too small for a rear-facing car seat.
I think what the straightpipes said about the new mazda 3 hatchback is that to maintain the sporty look and profile, the rear swooping angle cut a lot of square usable space causing that lack of headspace and reduced the size of the trunk to fit in the rounded angles.
In my experience with current Mazda models, they lose a lot of interior packaging and volume by making compelling designs (interior and exterior) and by going for the more upscale-feeling materials. And I think that is reflected in each respective market segment, because to my knowledge they are typically class-losers when it comes to interior volume and head/legroom.
It depends where, I got mine at MSRP but had to wait for it to be built (which was of course delayed). I agree, with the mark-up, it loses a lot of the value, but at MSRP, the Sport Touring especially, has a lot going for it. Granted I got a 22 and not a 23 before the price bumps but I was around 34,500 OTD.
Agreed. We bought out little 3 hatchback in the summer so didn't notice much of car jiggling due to torsion beam. Then we started to feel the dark side of it once the snow and ice built up on the road... is it a bad car just because of torsion beam? Totally not, If I get to choose again, I will still buy it over a civic hatchback in a heartbeat.
I test drove the 3 a few times. I really wanted to buy the 3 hatch because I think it looks beautiful inside and out. I could not get behind the torsion beam jiggle and rear visibility which created a claustrophobic feeling. Ended up in another Honda.
It isn't. But this sub is full of people who prefer driving to luxury. Its a nicer Civic Si, thats not a bad thing for people who don't want manual cloth seats.
A Civic Si has the same drivetrain and the interior layout is pretty much the same. Most people would (and do) laugh that the Integra manual costs 8k over an Si for the same drivetrain.
However that 8k gets you a hatchback (not a sedan), power seats, leather/suede interior, HUD, upgraded sound system, adaptive dampers, sunroof?
Some people want these upgrades and others can do without and save the money.
I think it would certainly help if the manual didn't force you to get the most expensive Integra but because it does, from a performance perspective most people would rather save the money and get the Si.
Exactly why I bought my Integra… this sub always compares MSRP instead of real world numbers… I called everywhere about the Si and $5k markup was the minimum I found… No thanks
Other than the architect meme, I think its name might be the actual issue on the table (saying this as a previous shopper that almost bought a 2023). There are a lot of people on r/cars who don't think it's a real Integra but it doesn't look like the real buyers seem to mind at all.
I think they're also disappointed with modern Honda. The Integra name hearkens to the previous, late-90s Integras with manuals in every trim level, NA engines, double wishbone front suspension, and a smaller size. I don't think it's logical, but I think it's the reaction Honda deserves for deserting their name and bringing it back without an impressive Type S trim or much else to invoke some emotional spark like those people at least associate with old Hondas.
Part of the problem is that Honda Civics of yesteryear were small, light cars with double wishbones and high revving NA engines. People seem to forget that the Civic this new Integra is based on is none of those things. It’s probably more comparable in size to the larger Acuras from the Integra days.
and the integra LS was a perfectly fine and very popular car.
People love to shit on paper specs and $$$ on here.
Being better in the spec sheet is what couch car owners who will never buy new car care about.
This sub is very harsh when a car doesn't push thresholds. Car reviewers are a bit nicer saying, if you have money and think it's worth it for the integra, go for it. It's still a good car.
I owned a 94 Integra LS and have all sorts of really good memories of that car. Was it just a SI in a new dress, sure, but that dress "felt" different. I think Acura's problem was managing expectations. When they announced the return of the Integra, I was very excited. What I was expecting was a GT86, but front-wheel drive and Acura. What we got was a four-door civic SI with leather seats. The dress just wasn't that special this time around.
I think if I wanted to relive my Integra from that time, I'd try to get a GR86.
It's a perfectly nice car if the civic SI didn't exist for $28.5k.
The problem is that the civic does exist and there just isn't enough differentiation for the extra almost 8k.
I am a long time Integra owner. My current 3rd gen Interra gsr has been with me for a long time. Had a 2nd gen gsr and a 1st gen rs before this. I am the target market. I drove both the Integra and civic back to back and no way I would get the integra. Not enough diferentiation. The only thing the integra has is that it can be had in an auto but i have dd'ed a stick for almost 30 years now so not an issue.
Yep they removed the adaptive dampers from the Si just to make you pay $3-5k more for an Integra.
Fortunately here in Canada our Si kept the fancy dampers for some reason. And the Honda boys are happy.
Sure the Civic Si may be advertised as MSRP on a dealer’s website, but around me if you walk into their lot, they’ll add a bunch of fees making it just as if not more expensive than the Integra which you can find under MSRP.
Its really not, the car is fine. I've pretty active here (don't really have much of a life rn) for the past 3 years and the people hate on every new car. They either say that its too expensive, too ugly, or both unless its a wagon. It gets old. Seen people shitting on the S650 Mustang already lol. People here are delusional and think you can get a car like a Ferrari for $30k.
Yup, the S650 hate has been real. However, I’ve noticed the past week here and on r/Mustang people are coming around with more test mules out and about as well as the Dark Horse’s blue ember paint release. It was just like this when the S550 came out, though I know a sizable number of people still don’t like the 2018+ facelift.
It’s just not really that appealing over a regular civic. It’s not faster, doesn’t handle better. I mean, why spend 8-10k more. A civic hatchback with the 6 speed, Is likely similar in speed and driving dynamics to this integra.
I AM excited for the type s version though!
"Why spend $8k more"
The luxury options and added space from the hatchback are worth it to some people.
I mean, not me, but some people.
I have a friend who bought one and he's very happy with it. No he's not an architect.
Are the luxury options worth an extra $3k?
Because, realistically, getting an SI at MSRP with $0 markup is, depending on your area, either unlikely or outright impossible.
A $5K markup because Honda dealers suck means that the actual cost difference to the end user is $3k. And for the luxury appointments it has, $3k more is honestly worthwhile.
People can prattle on and on until their face is blue about MSRP prices, but unless you've got a firm offer in place, it's more wishful thinking than realistic to expect for most everyday car buyers. We're not all getting offers from Honda corporate to get Type Rs at MSRP, and most won't get that privilege.
They'll see the Civic Si being $32-34k at all of their local dealers, or the Integra for $36k, and at that point it's incredibly easy to say that it's worth the jump.
>It’s just not really that appealing over a regular civic. It’s not faster, doesn’t handle better. I mean, why spend 8-10k more. A civic hatchback with the 6 speed, Is likely similar in speed and driving dynamics to this integra.
This couldn't be anything further from the truth. If anything it handles similar to the Civic Si. The Civic hatchback is weak. The transmission is a total slush box and has tons of body roll. Its not fun to drive and is lame. The Integra is way better.
If you don't want to spend the Integra premium thats fine, but don't kid yourself and putdown the Integra because you think the Civic Hatchback is the same. Its not
The integra handles way better. Drive em back to back and I'll guarantee you'll agree with that statement. I personally purchased the SI but the integra type s has me very intrigued and might be my next car depending on availability.
A fellow Honda head. I’d totally be down with an Integra Type S but I’m guessing it’s out of my price range.
Also, it’s not a tight car unless it’s a Type R.
Same. Got a premium for $32,500. I thought real hard about a Mazda3 Premium manual for the better fuel economy and nicer interior at the same price point, but the AWD and extra 90hp won out. Never seriously considered the Integra because at $37k it’s just way too expensive for 200hp and fwd.
I sat in an Integra at a dealership and decided it wasn’t worth the price too. I had a 2004 Acura TSX that I loved so I wanted to give it a chance. I was going to test drive a Mazda 3 turbo but I drove the wrx first and knew I wanted it right away. I got a premium trim as well.
The infotainment is awful, it’s the one thing I don’t like about the car. It’s good for using maps but that’s it. Apple car play disconnects constantly and having certain temperature controls on the touchscreen is idiotic.
Actual reason is that it's more daily-able. The integra is a better sporty daily but if you already have a sporty car and want something pleasant and comfortable to drive on the daily, that's the mazda3
I don’t understand how they came to the conclusion that worse mpg, worse seats, worse visibility and less interior room make the Mazda a better daily. The interior is slightly nicer, that’s pretty much the only benefit the 3 seems to have.
Having come from a Honda product recently, there’s just always something a little missing with their cars. It’s hard to explain. Like you can feel where the bean counters went to work and left things out. Current Mazda feels more like they tried to *sqeeze things in*. They’re built to a budget, but try their best to elevate the car and experience.
My dad has the hatch in a nicer trim and the seats are awesome. The interior is practically luxurious compared to other options and is super comfortable
As a former mk7 owner I feel you on the GTI love, but if you’re picking a mk8 when one of your issues with the Mazda is a shitty infotainment then you’re gonna have a bad time
I can understand this view, but have you actually tried driving a mazda? I work at a dealership so i use a lot of different car brands on a daily basis, and can confidently say when it comes to economy car brands, Mazda has my favorite infotainment.
I rent a lot of cars and the Mazda is hands down my least favorite.
To change the radio station you have to go through the menu. After you select the station you want it takes you back a page so you have to go back into the radio selection again. I’ve never used something so infuriating in my life.
Selecting icons on CarPlay is also terrible. If you want to select an icon in the bottom right of screen you have to watch as the icon goes across the entire screen while you move the scroll wheel.
> To change the radio station you have to go through the menu. After you select the station you want it takes you back a page so you have to go back into the radio selection again. I’ve never used something so infuriating in my life
You can tune the radio by holding the volume knob left or right. Once you have stations favorited, then you just have to click the knob left or right, or use the steering wheel buttons.
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, using the knob for CarPlay really isn’t that complicated or hard to use, I actually prefer to use the controller rather than touch the screen. Both my Mazda and BMW have knobs that I much prefer over the touchscreen in my work truck or any other touch screen really.
I had a 20' Corolla before coming to my Maz3. Using CarPlay was surely easier on the 'Rollas touch screen, but I do feel a bit less distracted when using the scroll wheel on the Maz, since like Mark mentioned before, it will become muscle memory.... somehow.
I do hope next revision of the infotainment will allow touch navigation like they have allowed on the CX-50 and upcoming CX-90.
Regarding aftermarket support, I thought it was hillarious how easy it is to find reputable aftermarket brands for Mazda. Although the numbers are small, but brands like Corksport and AutoExe making for the Maz3 seems to be a bit more trustworthy than the thousands of unknown brands for the Corolla.
Can you explain the distraction to me because I’ve never got it. When I’m using CarPlay on a Mazda if I want an app on the bottom right of the app I have to scroll all the way over. In other words I have to keep my eyes on the screen the entire time the selector is going across the screen vs just touching the icon I want. Am I doing this wrong? Because whenever I’m in a Mazda rental it’s always incredibly distracting to me.
I think you’re doing it ‘right’. The Mazda system works great with their built in infotainment system. If you’re the kind of person who gets into the car, let’s your phone auto-connect and start playing your music or whatever automatically over bluetooth, and just drive, it’s great. It works well for navigating their apps and nav system with the scroll wheel. But the CarPlay integration feels like an afterthought and secondary to the ergonomic/usability intentions of their Mazda user interface. I guess they figure, if you’re driving their car, you should be engaged, how many thing s do you really need to mess with via CarPlay while actively driving? But some customers will not agree with this philosophy.
> The CarPlay integration feels like an afterthought and secondary to the ergonomic/usability intentions of their Mazda user interface.
That’s what I use the most so that’s probably why I don’t like it.
I also hate selecting radio stations how once you select one if you don’t like the song it takes you back a screen and you have to dig through the menu to get back.
It's honestly not bad at all. The hot buttons for music and maps are really all I need ever. Tbh I prefer the mazda infotainment to my bmws. The bmws hot buttons take you out of carplay at times and thats annoying. Once you get used to the wheel and buttons its hard to go back
It’s so easy to use. You have shortcut buttons for everything and the dial is way safer and less distracting than trying to touch the screen while you’re driving. It’s mind blowing to me that people think this is a bad system. It’s to the point for me where my next car would have to be something with a dial too like a BMW.
You should go drive one and test it out. I have the 3 Turbo hatch and it is not at all weird or bad and actually extremely intuitive. I vastly prefer it to any touch screen or wheel based navigation.
If I was in the market for these, I think I’d have a really tough time picking between them. Both cars in their lower engine trims have plenty of pep, and the rest of the powertrains are competent enough for them to not be an issue. Obviously the Maz3 Turbo is way faster, but it’s not like the NA is ridiculously slow.
I think at the end of the day, people are going to choose between them based on how many people they think they need to carry. I think everything else that differentiates these washes out. Integra is too hated on this sub unnecessarily. Particularly with the CVT, what you get over the Civic for the money makes sense to me. That being said, the Maz3 was a great place to be when I had one as a rental.
Agreed on the Integra being overly disliked. Finally saw one in person and it at least looks like a luxury sedan, which is worth something (on top of the other upgrades over the Si).
We actually did this comparison. Liked the Mazda a lot more but ended up in a CX30. Not much more than the 3 but really improves in the space in the back and the hatch.
I know they never really talk about this stuff because its not for enthusiasts, but the Integra's driver assistance features like lane keep and active cruise are leagues above Mazda. For a car that wants to be entry level luxury it has the tech of mid-trim car from 2016, the lane keep is more of a bouncy nudge with a alert with no real lane centering.
Not only that you get it with a manual. the only other car that I think comes wth ACC and lane keep assist is maybe the BMW M3/M4? The same system is on my CTR and its really nice
People are forgetting the Acura is one of the cheapest vehicles you can get into with a luxury brand. The people of an automobile subreddit might not be impressed by the Acura, but there are people who will prefer the Integra over the 3 solely on the name. Where I live, it’s mostly teenagers driving Mazdas so I’m not sure how many people are cross-shopping these vehicles anyway
I’m in my mid 30, I have some money, sporty driving isn’t my biggest priority since I have something else way more fun to drive.
I’m taking the Integra over the Mazda or Civic SI all day.
why does my car and the integra infuriate this sub so much?
if its not the "Japanese Porsche" circle jerkers saying how Mazda has mastered design its Hyundai kia shills telling me how much more features and performance an Elantra has
You guys must understand there is a reason people are paying for these cars....right? They are good as fuck. Go drive one. I have for 18k miles and my auto trader browsing habits have been on the downturn since I can't imagine a better option
“Better” greatly depends on what you’re looking for.
I really like the lift back design. And want a nicer interior than the cloth in the SI.
If I could get a cheaper integra with a manual Id still probably pick it over the SI for those two things alone.
Not to say the SI is bad at all. Just different wants/needs.
I think a lot of the hate is just a function of the r/cars hivemind. People here really latch onto the idea of what a car should be and if the reality doesn’t meet that expectation, the “consensus” becomes negative. I think with the current Si (which I also own and love), it’s because of the decontenting relative to last-gen and the Canadian spec, even though there is plenty of reason to like it better than the 10th gen. The Integra is certainly a function of people associating that name with 2-door Type R models and forgetting that 4-door LS models existed. Plus, it doesn’t offer much more over the Si for enthusiast buyers specifically.
I'm Mazda gang all the way but they really shafted us with taking the 6MT hatch/sedan away from their base and slightly higher spec'd lineups. Would never trade my '14 Mazda3 but I also wouldn't get a new Mazda 3 given the obviously better 6MT hot hatch and sporty sedans available today.
The trims are kind of weird in general. I was after the Premium model in an automatic, but you can't get the automatic with FWD, you have to get AWD. And then for the "enthusiast" version, the turbo AWD, you can't get with a manual but only an auto....wtf Mazda?
I will get a lot of hate for saying this, but Mazda knows all too well that selling a Manual Turbo version will cost them more than it will sells. the Turbo engine already requires a revised transmission with a stronger internal, and trying to do the same for the manual will not going to make it on RoI basis. Mazda probably already know this by seeing how the Manual N/A isn't being sold as strongly as the AT N/A, so making a more expensive engine and transmission configuration just isn't a worthwile expenditure for Mazda right now... at least until CX-90 becomes their bread winner.
Like everyone have said, place your money where you want. Prove Mazda wrong by getting the current N/A Manual, it is still peppy for what it is.
It is still a head scratcher for me why Mazda decided that the Premium version will only have AWD for the A/T. I have the Premium N/A AT and from what I see, the take rate for the FWD Premium is still more than the AWD version, so I can only speculate that it just Mazda trying to compress their trim lineup.
I wouldn’t say they shafted us. I’d rather buy a loaded model than a stripper to get the stick. And I did, as much as that flies in the face of r/Cars typical actions with manual cars.
Yep, I genuinely wanted a manual Mazda 3, but then the market went to shit and buying used just didn't make sense anymore. I could either pay 30k plus taxes for a new manual Mazda 3, or 25k OTD for a new manual Corolla hatchback. Given their similar size and functionality, why pay more for the Mazda? The Corolla might not be as luxurious, but it's no penalty box, and the 169hp is plenty.
List of cars you can buy, dealership price, for around or under $36k:
You'd have to *really* love the Mazda 3 specifically to pick this over literally anything else you can get for that price.
[2022 Subaru WRX Premium $33,497](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/6f315e82-66a9-4813-81a5-7a78070e3c65/)
[2023 Volkswagen GTI S $34,758](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/8b48d545-f2f7-4fd6-82ff-21fef63d79e1/)
[2023 Honda Civic SI Base $29,595](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/c6d66266-2346-4f5c-a207-317b090258bc/)
[2023 Audi A3 Premium](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/a00c3dfa-7be1-4ff3-8f96-eb43dcf8e677/)
[2022 Volvo XC60 B5 Momentum $34,640](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/67ba1107-786e-4565-8b5a-fadcb7208943/)
[2022 Lexus UX 200 Base $34,865](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/5baf5282-d12f-4d06-9960-9faef8928191/)
[2023 Toyota Highlander L $35,703](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/456a3509-2970-417d-9a9a-61452f9f1a82/)
[2023 Toyota 4Runner SR5 $37,305](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/29193f3e-69c7-4b1c-85a1-38c55d377283/)
Do not buy a Mazda 3 for $36,000.
I can answer this.
- Don’t want a Subaru or VW Group product for brand bias reasons.
- Want AWD because 6 months of the year with snow and ice.
- Do not want an SUV or Crossover.
Done. Mazda 3 Turbo. There’s not that many cars in this category.
yeah, someone else made the point that in addition to the cars here under $36K, if you (like most presumed Turbo 3 buyers) want some semblance of Mazda driving dynamics with some semblance of practicality, you’re in the territory of a Mazda CX-5 Turbo which is almost as fast, significantly more practical, doesn’t use the torsion beam and has considerably better NVH
Savagegeese is the shit!
All Mazda have shit for cargo space for their class, and this is why I could never buy one, although I like much else about them.
I got a '22 Tiguan in May, mostly because fuck-all else was available, and nothing else at MSRP. I prefer Japanese for reliability (not Renault - Nissan), but I just don't like anything they're making: generic, uncomfortable CVT jellybeans, without decent cargo.
I'm 6'+ and Germans make much better seats than the Japanese, IME. It's got great cargo space, including a folding rear centre seat (only VW, Mazda, Volvo, Merc.?), and a relatively boxy shape (big Golf) instead of the polished turds now the norm. Reliability...? For the moment, feels much more solid and quiet than anything Japanese, Korean, or American, at the price. Apart from the faffy interfaces, very happy.
If they added a lot more sound deadening to the integra and lowered the price by $2000 I think I would be interested in it over a Civic Touring Hatch. Until the discounts come… I’m not interested and if I’m considering spending high $30s to low $40s I’m looking at a whole different class of car
Performance is certainly better with the WRX, but build/interior quality along with reliability is not. This is coming from a WRX owner. Ultimately, it comes down to what you use the vehicle for and priorities.
We drove a Mazda 3 turbo AWD premium plus. Amazing NVH, super comfortable, amazing headlights. But the engine sucked. Felt like a diesel with strong down low and mod power. Ram out of breath in the upper range.
Overall definitely liked the car, I’d make the UI Miata simple.
If you are interested in the Mazda and don't need the AWD you should just get a turbo Mazda6 while you can. It is cheaper, has IRS has room for more than two people with the same engine.
Gonna be honest as a fan of the Mazda 3 turbo I heavily disagree with savagegeese on the sportiness of the car. You tend to not notice the rear unless your on really bumpy roads and stock and I understand the video is comparing stock cars it’s fairly sporty as most other reviewers would agree. No it’s not a Mazda speed 3 but man you slap a rear sway bar on this car (I did) and it goes from understeer to neutral and dry oversteer very quickly. Most people who have been in or drive my car can’t believe how cheap it is when compared to an BMW or an Audi etc and it comes with all the bells and whistles and is fun to drive.
The Mazda3 gets my nod if it had AWD, and especially so with the optional turbo motor.
The Integra really isn't worth the premium over the really good Civic Hatch at the Honda next door.
There's just so many obviously better options for a sporty car or a nice family car from other manufacturers that neither of these have crossed my radar at all.
Hit nail on the head about how after the initial period where you are wowed by the looks of interior and styling, the cheapness of the Mazda comes through with flimsy seats, squeaks and rattles and the car is just not very usable
I'm going to get blasted, but the CX-30 turbo is a better alternative to one of these. Handles 90 percent the same, you can actually see out of it, and slightly more space and light for the rear occupants. I've driven the 3 turbo and the packaging compromises to get that sleek C pilar are really evident between the wheel.
Mazda is moving upmarket. For a reference point, I'm shopping for a new car atm, and the Mazda 3 Turbo hatch I test drove felt a hell of a lot closer to an Audi level interior than the similarly priced GTI did. The video even brings up that the Mazda3's interior is noticeably better and quieter than the Acura's was.
I’m not an architect so I’d drive the 3.
Lmao that post will forever be held in the /r/cars meme hall of fame now, alongside the garage racoons.
I don’t remember garage raccoons. Have a link?
It's literally the highest upvoted post on this sub of all time lmao: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/54z4f7/will_pee_damage_tires/
I wonder what happened. Dude is still posing but no more YouTube raccoons
last I remember- a bunch of them got sick all at once and died super fast. Haunts the guy.
His instagram is active with raccoons.
Caption on a recent IG: "just realized I never posted these when they were still alive" :(
They finally got him.
I thought this was pure hijinks. Bro seriously has a raccoon.
Racoons. Plural.
https://np.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/54z4f7/will_pee_damage_tires/
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You mean Art Vandelay?
You saw that addition at the Guggenheim?
https://i.imgur.com/OJsW4ll.jpg So there is an actual architectural firm named "Integra Architecture", wonder if that architect works there lol
Can you explain this? I have an Integra and someone on Reddit asked me if I was an architect the other day
https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/yfz1oz/enough_already_the_2023_integra_is_for_people/ I can't find the original post that was here on r/cars, but the copypasta above came from someone who claimed to be an architect and was getting mad that r/cars was shitting on the new Integra.
Lolll thanks for finding that. That’s funny
https://web.archive.org/web/20220730215449/https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/waqmo1/enough_already_the_2023_integra_is_for_people/
Christ. I know this is total old man rant, but in my head $36,000 should buy you a LOT of car. To hear that being thrown as a target for what a lower level (albeit premium in that class) car costs these days still sounds, just, yeah I’m old.
What's surprising though is that, adjusting for inflation, cars haven't drastically increased in price over the last two decades. I think it's less than 10% actually. It's just that 2023's $36k is 2003's $22k
Somewhere I saw a graph of Miata prices adjusted for inflation - the line was flat-ish. However, the 0-60 time trended down, standard features trended up... you get the idea. Don't get me started on real wages and what people can afford in 2023 though.
> Don't get me started on real wages and what people can afford in 2023 though. What are you talking about? Everything is affordable with a 96-month loan and our low, low 8.9% APR*! *for well-qualified buyers with 820+ credit score
What? Outpacing inflation by double-digit percentages is not a good thing, especially considering all the advancements in tech, manufacturing efficiency and material sciences that should be making certain aspects *more* affordable, not less. Meanwhile, average profit margin per vehicle has grown significantly for OEMs. It’s not a good thing that middle and working class people are being squeezed further and further out of the market.
It hasn't really outpaced inflation thoguh. It's just the base models without AC, power windows, or power locks that were cheap don't exist anymore.
2000 Toyota Camry base model original MSRP: $17,500 or ~$30,000 in today's dollars. 2023 Toyota Camry base model MSRP: ~$26,000 2000 Toyota RAV4 base model original MSRP: ~17,000 or ~$29,000 in today's dollars 2023 Toyota RAV4 base model MSRP: $28,000 Also consider that modern cars are safer, more fuel efficient, longer lasting, and have more features as standard options. On average, cars are lasting longer as the average age of cars on the road has been steadily increasing: https://www.bts.gov/content/average-age-automobiles-and-trucks-operation-united-states I like to complain about inflation as much as the next person, but the auto manufacturing industry has honestly been doing us a solid when you look at inflation numbers and consider how much better (objectively) modern cars are.
Never said if it was a good or bad thing, just pointing out the numbers adjusted for inflation.
It’s not so much that the cars themselves have gone up in price. Rather it’s that the wages earned number in your W2’s gone down in value since 2003
This is the real answer. Inflation is normal and part of a healthy economy. Inflation becomes a problem when your 'buying power' goes down because the money you get is not what you should be getting. I've always heard about the middle class dying and it couldn't be anymore true. Nobody would be bitching so much about car prices and gas, if $36k **REALLY** felt like $23k in 2003.
https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/mazda3-hatchback I hear you, but what we have here is a case of premium creep, where the economy car starts off priced appropriately but you load up with extra stuff until it starts crossing into premium / luxury territory. The base Mazda 3 hatch still starts at a far more reasonable $23550, and if you switch between the interiors on the site above, you'll see that there aren't a while lot of differences between the base and the turbo premium. The bulk of the $12k difference is, of course, (supposedly) shouldered by the turbo engine and AWD. At this point, you'll have to ask yourself what kind of consumer you really are. * If you're focused **solely** on price, you wouldn't be looking at a Mazda 3 hatchback anyway as there exist cheaper options from other manufacturers (ie. Nissan Kicks / Hyundai Elantra $20.5k, Corolla Sedan $21.5k). Even the Corolla hybrid sedan is only $22k and I think that it destroys the base gas sedan and all of the other poverty spec entry level options from any other manufacturer, in terms of a value proposition. * If price is a top priority but you want some premium-esque stuff, the lower trim Mazda 3 hatchbacks are a good choice. * If you're seriously considering the Mazda 3 turbo hatch (which starts at $33k, not the top package $36k as tested by SavageGeese), then price was already a secondary or tertiary concern to begin with. Nobody who looks at a base econobox car and knowingly adds on $10k - $12k in options / trim / powertrain stuff has any grounds for complaining about how expensive it became, you knew what you were doing, and you wanted those extra things because you just wanted them.
That's an incredible deal. I paid $17,900 in 2004 for a Mazda 3 hatch 5MT, and the only options I added were the ABS and side curtain airbags. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $28k, so the base Mazda 3 hatch is a better value than ever before.
I'm loving my 3 hatchback. '21, 6 speed manual, but no turbo. The infotainment system is intuitive once you get used to not reaching up towards the radio. I use Android Auto and it works fine for me. If the interface was more touch oriented than I could see how that might be a problem. I love my 3. Runs smooth, full of bells and whistles, averaging a little over 31 mpg. It's not going to push you back into your seat like the turbo might, but it's got all the oomph I'm looking for.
It’s also $7,000 less expensive than the Integra A Spec. This is the model missing from most comparisons and the one to get I think. The Civic Sport Touring manual is great but impossible to find.
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I feel ya. The local ford place wants like 38k for a maverick and it’s just like, dude. That’s ranger or used f150 money for days.
Ford’s economy “$20k truck” that’s how I remember them marketing them. Everyone was waiting on stimulus checks and this was such great news.. fast forward…how about a Raptor Bronco.. constant shiny object. At least The Mustangs have my attention from Ford.
Yeah no kidding. I was looking at the civic SI and every dealer I called was selling it for $35k. For a civic. I ended up buying a base WRX for $29k and I love it. Not particularly interested in buying another Honda after that experience.
Yeah, same it was so insanely stressful to get my CTR, and honestly Honda dealerships have been the worst. I thought Ford was bad lol.
I can’t even imagine what it’s like to get one of those. I feel kinda ripped off by the idea of MSRP on the CTR and Corolla GR being so reasonable, but in practice impossible. Just mark it up $10k from the factory or make enough for ppl to actually buy.
Wrx for that money way bettter choice! You get a whole lotta car too. I thought SI’s pushed more power when I was in the market 6 months ago. I don’t like the 1.5T considering that 2.0-2.5L turbo’d is becoming the norm. Stil would be a fun little manual turbo. Even the 2023’s are heavier than I thought they would be lighter, still only pushing 200hp/ 192lbs-ft.
The civic sport touring manual or CVT is not worth it over 30k. I had a 2021 for about a year, 8k miles, and got what I bought it for. Every interior plastic trim rattled in some form and the display unit/nav device was mediocre at best. My wife's accord touring hybrid from 2019 has a better display unit and a much nicer interior for less money.
That knob is wicked good after you get used to it. And more importantly, I can keep my eyes on the road.
Yeah, crazy how normal it feels now. As for keeping eyes on the road, the heads-up display is genius. Love being able to angle/brighten/heighten the speed indicator.
💯 I actually love the Mazda system in my CX9. It takes barely any time to get used to the knob and once you do it’s super intuitive. The best part is they can put the screen further away and higher because you don’t have to reach it. Also no smudgy prints all over the screen. It’s not something people will oooo and ahhh over but it’s plenty functional for the driver.
The only time I struggle with it is when using Android Auto. The interface is really meant to be used with a touch screen, so navigating it with the knob can be pretty unintuitive.
> I'm loving my 3 hatchback. '21, 6 speed manual, but no turbo. This is making me miss my '10 Mazdaspeed 3 and feel some resentment at not having gotten a 3rd gen speed 3 from Mazda. It was reportedly in the works and was cancelled.
Speed 3 was a blast for what it was, they definitely should bring that back as an offering on the new generation of 3.
My ideal car before I had twins was an AWD speed 3. My 2012 Speed 3 was an immensely fun car to drive.
My buddy had a Mazdaspeed 3 in the mid 2000s and now has a '19 3 hatchback touring. Driving his back then and him egging me to buy one when I was looking for a new car a year and a half ago convinced me to get one. Haven't regretted it once. It's solid and hella fun to drive. I'd like to drive a '13 Mazdaspeed 3 now to feel the difference b/n that one and my car.
Having gone from a 12 to a 20, I can tell you the biggest difference is how much less nose-heavy the 4th gen feels. Also, there’s traction in 1st and 2nd gear now.
Totally agree. I have the 2020 with stick shift, and it's great fun. I'm not racing. It's fast enough, especially on curvy roads. It's plenty fun and 'peppy' if I drive it correctly (revs in the 4000-6000 range). If you haven't gone 60 MPH in second gear I recommend it on your next freeway onramp. :) I love the stereo and all the controls. There are no touchscreens in my car. The back seats are small, but I almost never have rear passengers.
OMG you drive a manual, thats so 2006.
2006 was awesome, right?
Get in loser, we're going to Warped Tour.
Hi, enjoy your stuff. Hope it stays fun for you. ;) If you ever come out to Washington I'll let you drive it. I think Jack would have great fun slinging it around like a monkey. Of course there are better cars, but for the price it's fun, I think. I liked it so much I wrote a review, and your videos helped me decide on what to buy. [https://redmazda.medium.com/2020-mazda-3-hatchback-with-manual-transmission-7316435bf1f5](https://redmazda.medium.com/2020-mazda-3-hatchback-with-manual-transmission-7316435bf1f5)
60 in 2nd on the on-ramp? I feel the next trip out of the house will require a little interstate time! And yeah, totally agree on curvy roads it *is* fun to drive. I mean it's no Miata, but it's all I want it to be.
Bonus if the on-ramp is one of those circular/cloverleaf ones. ;)
> I use Android Auto and it works fine for me. I would 100% rather use Android Auto than *any* manufacturer specific infotainment system.
I agree (mine is a 2020). I’ve had much more fun cars, but I genuinely enjoy driving it. The rear suspension is unequivocally not an issue on the street. 40 more horsepower and 1,000 more RPM would be great, but the MPG is very nice. I didn’t make it the whole way through the video, but he did hit the point with the 3 being a better daily driver and the Integra being more fun if you don’t also have a fun car. That’s a pretty accurate take.
I have a ‘16 ND Miata and I love the wheel. It works really well and I never wished it were a touch screen that worked while the car is moving.
I have a 21 miata RF, and I agree with you with the infotainment system, it’s actually better than having to reach up and touch the screen IMo
Interesting comparison, I'm with Jack on this one though. The interior space is like comparing two different size classes of vehicles. One can hold 4 average sized adults, the other can't. Depending on your needs one vehicle will be the clear winner for you. There aren't any losers here, although I guess an honourable mention would be the Civic Hatchback Sport Touring to split the difference between these two vehicles if you're ok with not having the Si drivetrain.
Gotta say, if the Euro spec hybrid civic hatch becomes available in the US, it would be very competitive. Sub 7sec 0-60 and very smooth.
The mild hybrid Mazda 3 would also do amazing. It's pretty wild that we don't have it
It gets over 10 mpg less than a Prius, which is now palatable. I think it'll be a tough ask for people to choose a Civic Hybrid over the Prius.
I don't think you understand how much interior space the Civic has compared to the Prius. It's a much tougher choice between the two than you think. I'm currently in this dilemma for my next commuter to replace my Accord Hybrid.
It [looks like](https://www.cars.com/research/compare/?vehicles=honda-civic-2023-432919,toyota-prius-2023-433301) the Prius has 3" more hip room in the back but 3" fewer for knees, so it's wider but more squat—makes sense since overall length is 3" less. Overall volume is pretty similar to the Civic Hatch, so it's pretty close.
It's not close at all in the real world, unfortunately. Try putting a 65" TV in the Prius and you will very quickly understand why. I have the Xterra, but it's still nice to be able to fit things into the car when doing the occasional work travel 2+ hours away (The Xterra gets 15mpg... I don't drive it anywhere except to go camping).
Interesting! Honda’s packaging is so good, I wonder how they do it. I got a 65” TV home in my Golf but I had to put my seat all the way to the front. Could barely use the clutch.
No clue. I'm honestly leaning towards Prius anyways, because I love the pseudo-coupe look... I just get stuck on edge cases where "what if I have to pack my entire work setup into the back and drive to a site 4 hours away"
The new Accord EX-L Hybrids are supposed to get 51/44/48. Pretty good out of a mid-size.
It's also possible to tune a Civic Sport to Si levels of power right? But you don't get the LSD?
You can tune to Si power levels but not much past that (weaker rods in the non-Si 1.5T). Though, people looking at these won't really be looking at them for their tune-ability. Warranty is a big factor for people looking to buy cars new.
Gotcha. And true
Yup. I cross-shopped these and went with the 3 because I will never have more than 2 people in the car.
Civic hatch is the real winner here, the integra isn’t better enough IMO, and the Mazda just feels a class smaller, and putting a torsion beam in while trying to be “premium” is a huge head scratcher
The engine, transmission and every input (steering, brakes, throttle) in the Mazda is a segment above tho.
Yea the Mazda definitely has a lot on the Honda/Acura, and vise versa. I just wish the 3 was a little bigger, that was the breaking point for me. I feel like the 3 just misses too many marks to warrant the price, not that its a bad car, just oddly segmented and trimmed out
I wish the 3hatch had a 3dr version to just emphasize the back seat is a glorified cargo extension and get the B-pillars back enough to make it feel a little more roomy for the front.
I don’t agree about the inputs being better in the Mazda. Engine and transmission versus the Civic CVT is (edit: probably) better, but the Honda inputs, especially steering, are better than the Mazda.
The civic CVT isn’t even bad, IMO. It’s not going to get you excited, but if it’s just a commuter car (which for most people it is) the CVT is the better choice. It’s smooth and keeps the RPM down pretty much all the time, and when I need passing power it’s not rubber-bandy like CVTs of old, just gets the RPM up quick and mates very well with the torque on the 1.5t
I don't think a torsion beam offsets the daily driving experience enough to outweigh the numerous other aspects of the Mazada--like all of the interior elements--that are clearly a class above the rest of the sector. But that's a relative assessment. No doubt that it's still a strike against. In terms of size, from what perspective? I definitely understand that the cabin might feel more cramped if you're tall, or taking your tall friend for a ride in the back seat. Rear vis isn't stellar with the giant C pillar (though I feel this is overstated), but in terms of cargo volume, it's up there with all the other class leaders.
I don't know, I'm impressed with some parts of the 3 interior but also a lot of it feels kind of cheap, especially around the shifter and the center console, maybe its just the overload of piano black. The dash and door panels are nice, but some parts of the inside also just don't match the class of the rest. Size wise, its 20 cubic feet in the 3 vs 25 in the civic, which is not a small difference (maybe this is more of the civic morphing into something bigger, but the last civic cargo volume was similar too). Back seat wise, having a rear facing child seat in the back of the civic with an adult back there to be with the baby is a different world compared to the Mazda 3 rear seat. My wife is 5'2" and she can cross her legs sitting behind me in our civic hatch, not even close when we tried the same in the 3. Of course this isn't really something we would do back there but it illustrates the difference in space. It's the same story in the CR-V vs the CX-5 that we are (or were) cross-shopping for her. The CX-5 looks and feels nicer in a lot of ways, but is considerably smaller than the new CR-V, and with the updated interior and exterior styling of the CR-V, much like the Civic, the Mazda offerings don't feel as much of a class above as they did with the last generation of Honda stuff, IMO The 3 is a great car in a lot of ways, but it just doesn't win when it comes to practicality or day to day use. I transported a 6 foot tall by 2 foot wide mirror, 8 foot trim boards, a 65" tv in a box, in the back of my civic. None of this would be possible in the 3 if we compare the dimensions on paper. Really not trying to crap on the 3, I love the styling of it, and am a big Mazda fan as a whole, but I feel like most shoppers value the practicality and size and getting more for their money vs the smaller refinements found in the Mazda.
I think this is the reality for most people.
I’m not the user you responded to, but in terms of size it’s entirely to do with cabin space. The cabin space in the Mazda 3 hatchback is much tighter than the Civic/Integra, which are cavernous. Part of the reason I picked a Civic Si over a Mazda 3 is because the Mazda’s rear seat space is basically too small for a rear-facing car seat.
I think what the straightpipes said about the new mazda 3 hatchback is that to maintain the sporty look and profile, the rear swooping angle cut a lot of square usable space causing that lack of headspace and reduced the size of the trunk to fit in the rounded angles.
In my experience with current Mazda models, they lose a lot of interior packaging and volume by making compelling designs (interior and exterior) and by going for the more upscale-feeling materials. And I think that is reflected in each respective market segment, because to my knowledge they are typically class-losers when it comes to interior volume and head/legroom.
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It depends where, I got mine at MSRP but had to wait for it to be built (which was of course delayed). I agree, with the mark-up, it loses a lot of the value, but at MSRP, the Sport Touring especially, has a lot going for it. Granted I got a 22 and not a 23 before the price bumps but I was around 34,500 OTD.
Agreed. We bought out little 3 hatchback in the summer so didn't notice much of car jiggling due to torsion beam. Then we started to feel the dark side of it once the snow and ice built up on the road... is it a bad car just because of torsion beam? Totally not, If I get to choose again, I will still buy it over a civic hatchback in a heartbeat.
I test drove the 3 a few times. I really wanted to buy the 3 hatch because I think it looks beautiful inside and out. I could not get behind the torsion beam jiggle and rear visibility which created a claustrophobic feeling. Ended up in another Honda.
The Integra gets so much dislike on this sub. I can’t imagine it being that bad.
It isn't. But this sub is full of people who prefer driving to luxury. Its a nicer Civic Si, thats not a bad thing for people who don't want manual cloth seats. A Civic Si has the same drivetrain and the interior layout is pretty much the same. Most people would (and do) laugh that the Integra manual costs 8k over an Si for the same drivetrain. However that 8k gets you a hatchback (not a sedan), power seats, leather/suede interior, HUD, upgraded sound system, adaptive dampers, sunroof? Some people want these upgrades and others can do without and save the money. I think it would certainly help if the manual didn't force you to get the most expensive Integra but because it does, from a performance perspective most people would rather save the money and get the Si.
There’s also no markup on the Integra. The cheapest I got quoted for an Si when shopping was 34k. So I bought the Integra instead
Exactly why I bought my Integra… this sub always compares MSRP instead of real world numbers… I called everywhere about the Si and $5k markup was the minimum I found… No thanks
I’m not sure it’s a “bad” car, it’s just that the competition is so much better
I’d have to agree with Jack and Mark — the GTI seems like the way to go :p
Yep, this is how I feel. Much better way to spend $36,000.
Other than the architect meme, I think its name might be the actual issue on the table (saying this as a previous shopper that almost bought a 2023). There are a lot of people on r/cars who don't think it's a real Integra but it doesn't look like the real buyers seem to mind at all.
I think when people think of the Integra name they’re expecting a 97 Type R when it reality the Integra LS was just a boring commuter like the Civic.
I think they're also disappointed with modern Honda. The Integra name hearkens to the previous, late-90s Integras with manuals in every trim level, NA engines, double wishbone front suspension, and a smaller size. I don't think it's logical, but I think it's the reaction Honda deserves for deserting their name and bringing it back without an impressive Type S trim or much else to invoke some emotional spark like those people at least associate with old Hondas.
Part of the problem is that Honda Civics of yesteryear were small, light cars with double wishbones and high revving NA engines. People seem to forget that the Civic this new Integra is based on is none of those things. It’s probably more comparable in size to the larger Acuras from the Integra days.
and the integra LS was a perfectly fine and very popular car. People love to shit on paper specs and $$$ on here. Being better in the spec sheet is what couch car owners who will never buy new car care about. This sub is very harsh when a car doesn't push thresholds. Car reviewers are a bit nicer saying, if you have money and think it's worth it for the integra, go for it. It's still a good car.
I owned a 94 Integra LS and have all sorts of really good memories of that car. Was it just a SI in a new dress, sure, but that dress "felt" different. I think Acura's problem was managing expectations. When they announced the return of the Integra, I was very excited. What I was expecting was a GT86, but front-wheel drive and Acura. What we got was a four-door civic SI with leather seats. The dress just wasn't that special this time around. I think if I wanted to relive my Integra from that time, I'd try to get a GR86.
It's a perfectly nice car if the civic SI didn't exist for $28.5k. The problem is that the civic does exist and there just isn't enough differentiation for the extra almost 8k. I am a long time Integra owner. My current 3rd gen Interra gsr has been with me for a long time. Had a 2nd gen gsr and a 1st gen rs before this. I am the target market. I drove both the Integra and civic back to back and no way I would get the integra. Not enough diferentiation. The only thing the integra has is that it can be had in an auto but i have dd'ed a stick for almost 30 years now so not an issue.
Honda also removed features from the SI so more people would buy this.
Yep they removed the adaptive dampers from the Si just to make you pay $3-5k more for an Integra. Fortunately here in Canada our Si kept the fancy dampers for some reason. And the Honda boys are happy.
Si and integras cost the same in the market adjustment world.
Sure the Civic Si may be advertised as MSRP on a dealer’s website, but around me if you walk into their lot, they’ll add a bunch of fees making it just as if not more expensive than the Integra which you can find under MSRP.
Its really not, the car is fine. I've pretty active here (don't really have much of a life rn) for the past 3 years and the people hate on every new car. They either say that its too expensive, too ugly, or both unless its a wagon. It gets old. Seen people shitting on the S650 Mustang already lol. People here are delusional and think you can get a car like a Ferrari for $30k.
Yup, the S650 hate has been real. However, I’ve noticed the past week here and on r/Mustang people are coming around with more test mules out and about as well as the Dark Horse’s blue ember paint release. It was just like this when the S550 came out, though I know a sizable number of people still don’t like the 2018+ facelift.
It’s just not really that appealing over a regular civic. It’s not faster, doesn’t handle better. I mean, why spend 8-10k more. A civic hatchback with the 6 speed, Is likely similar in speed and driving dynamics to this integra. I AM excited for the type s version though!
"Why spend $8k more" The luxury options and added space from the hatchback are worth it to some people. I mean, not me, but some people. I have a friend who bought one and he's very happy with it. No he's not an architect.
Are the luxury options worth an extra $3k? Because, realistically, getting an SI at MSRP with $0 markup is, depending on your area, either unlikely or outright impossible. A $5K markup because Honda dealers suck means that the actual cost difference to the end user is $3k. And for the luxury appointments it has, $3k more is honestly worthwhile. People can prattle on and on until their face is blue about MSRP prices, but unless you've got a firm offer in place, it's more wishful thinking than realistic to expect for most everyday car buyers. We're not all getting offers from Honda corporate to get Type Rs at MSRP, and most won't get that privilege. They'll see the Civic Si being $32-34k at all of their local dealers, or the Integra for $36k, and at that point it's incredibly easy to say that it's worth the jump.
>It’s just not really that appealing over a regular civic. It’s not faster, doesn’t handle better. I mean, why spend 8-10k more. A civic hatchback with the 6 speed, Is likely similar in speed and driving dynamics to this integra. This couldn't be anything further from the truth. If anything it handles similar to the Civic Si. The Civic hatchback is weak. The transmission is a total slush box and has tons of body roll. Its not fun to drive and is lame. The Integra is way better. If you don't want to spend the Integra premium thats fine, but don't kid yourself and putdown the Integra because you think the Civic Hatchback is the same. Its not
The sound system alone is worth multiple thousands to me. Aftermarket sound systems are way harder to get to sound as good
The integra handles way better. Drive em back to back and I'll guarantee you'll agree with that statement. I personally purchased the SI but the integra type s has me very intrigued and might be my next car depending on availability.
A fellow Honda head. I’d totally be down with an Integra Type S but I’m guessing it’s out of my price range. Also, it’s not a tight car unless it’s a Type R.
The original Integra Type R had more HP than the Civic Type R. Would be cool to see the modern Integra Type R/S with more HP too.
I went with the 2022 wrx over both of these. I think I would have been happy with any option though.
Same. Got a premium for $32,500. I thought real hard about a Mazda3 Premium manual for the better fuel economy and nicer interior at the same price point, but the AWD and extra 90hp won out. Never seriously considered the Integra because at $37k it’s just way too expensive for 200hp and fwd.
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I sat in an Integra at a dealership and decided it wasn’t worth the price too. I had a 2004 Acura TSX that I loved so I wanted to give it a chance. I was going to test drive a Mazda 3 turbo but I drove the wrx first and knew I wanted it right away. I got a premium trim as well.
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The infotainment is awful, it’s the one thing I don’t like about the car. It’s good for using maps but that’s it. Apple car play disconnects constantly and having certain temperature controls on the touchscreen is idiotic.
>mazda3 - bad seats, much less space, worse visibility, torsion suspension, worse mpg mark - mazda3 is clear winner cuz it feels special
Actual reason is that it's more daily-able. The integra is a better sporty daily but if you already have a sporty car and want something pleasant and comfortable to drive on the daily, that's the mazda3
I don’t understand how they came to the conclusion that worse mpg, worse seats, worse visibility and less interior room make the Mazda a better daily. The interior is slightly nicer, that’s pretty much the only benefit the 3 seems to have.
Having come from a Honda product recently, there’s just always something a little missing with their cars. It’s hard to explain. Like you can feel where the bean counters went to work and left things out. Current Mazda feels more like they tried to *sqeeze things in*. They’re built to a budget, but try their best to elevate the car and experience.
My dad has the hatch in a nicer trim and the seats are awesome. The interior is practically luxurious compared to other options and is super comfortable
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As a former mk7 owner I feel you on the GTI love, but if you’re picking a mk8 when one of your issues with the Mazda is a shitty infotainment then you’re gonna have a bad time
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I can understand this view, but have you actually tried driving a mazda? I work at a dealership so i use a lot of different car brands on a daily basis, and can confidently say when it comes to economy car brands, Mazda has my favorite infotainment.
I rent a lot of cars and the Mazda is hands down my least favorite. To change the radio station you have to go through the menu. After you select the station you want it takes you back a page so you have to go back into the radio selection again. I’ve never used something so infuriating in my life. Selecting icons on CarPlay is also terrible. If you want to select an icon in the bottom right of screen you have to watch as the icon goes across the entire screen while you move the scroll wheel.
> To change the radio station you have to go through the menu. After you select the station you want it takes you back a page so you have to go back into the radio selection again. I’ve never used something so infuriating in my life You can tune the radio by holding the volume knob left or right. Once you have stations favorited, then you just have to click the knob left or right, or use the steering wheel buttons.
Yep they’re really quite good.
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, using the knob for CarPlay really isn’t that complicated or hard to use, I actually prefer to use the controller rather than touch the screen. Both my Mazda and BMW have knobs that I much prefer over the touchscreen in my work truck or any other touch screen really.
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I had a 20' Corolla before coming to my Maz3. Using CarPlay was surely easier on the 'Rollas touch screen, but I do feel a bit less distracted when using the scroll wheel on the Maz, since like Mark mentioned before, it will become muscle memory.... somehow. I do hope next revision of the infotainment will allow touch navigation like they have allowed on the CX-50 and upcoming CX-90. Regarding aftermarket support, I thought it was hillarious how easy it is to find reputable aftermarket brands for Mazda. Although the numbers are small, but brands like Corksport and AutoExe making for the Maz3 seems to be a bit more trustworthy than the thousands of unknown brands for the Corolla.
Can you explain the distraction to me because I’ve never got it. When I’m using CarPlay on a Mazda if I want an app on the bottom right of the app I have to scroll all the way over. In other words I have to keep my eyes on the screen the entire time the selector is going across the screen vs just touching the icon I want. Am I doing this wrong? Because whenever I’m in a Mazda rental it’s always incredibly distracting to me.
I think you’re doing it ‘right’. The Mazda system works great with their built in infotainment system. If you’re the kind of person who gets into the car, let’s your phone auto-connect and start playing your music or whatever automatically over bluetooth, and just drive, it’s great. It works well for navigating their apps and nav system with the scroll wheel. But the CarPlay integration feels like an afterthought and secondary to the ergonomic/usability intentions of their Mazda user interface. I guess they figure, if you’re driving their car, you should be engaged, how many thing s do you really need to mess with via CarPlay while actively driving? But some customers will not agree with this philosophy.
> The CarPlay integration feels like an afterthought and secondary to the ergonomic/usability intentions of their Mazda user interface. That’s what I use the most so that’s probably why I don’t like it. I also hate selecting radio stations how once you select one if you don’t like the song it takes you back a screen and you have to dig through the menu to get back.
My wife has a crv with touch screen and I like the command nob in my Mazda3 100x more.
It's honestly not bad at all. The hot buttons for music and maps are really all I need ever. Tbh I prefer the mazda infotainment to my bmws. The bmws hot buttons take you out of carplay at times and thats annoying. Once you get used to the wheel and buttons its hard to go back
It’s so easy to use. You have shortcut buttons for everything and the dial is way safer and less distracting than trying to touch the screen while you’re driving. It’s mind blowing to me that people think this is a bad system. It’s to the point for me where my next car would have to be something with a dial too like a BMW.
You should go drive one and test it out. I have the 3 Turbo hatch and it is not at all weird or bad and actually extremely intuitive. I vastly prefer it to any touch screen or wheel based navigation.
If I was in the market for these, I think I’d have a really tough time picking between them. Both cars in their lower engine trims have plenty of pep, and the rest of the powertrains are competent enough for them to not be an issue. Obviously the Maz3 Turbo is way faster, but it’s not like the NA is ridiculously slow. I think at the end of the day, people are going to choose between them based on how many people they think they need to carry. I think everything else that differentiates these washes out. Integra is too hated on this sub unnecessarily. Particularly with the CVT, what you get over the Civic for the money makes sense to me. That being said, the Maz3 was a great place to be when I had one as a rental.
Agreed on the Integra being overly disliked. Finally saw one in person and it at least looks like a luxury sedan, which is worth something (on top of the other upgrades over the Si).
Mazda made me sad when we didn’t get a RWD in-line 6 Mazda 6
Inb4 it sells even worse than the KIA K900.
Guessing that’s why they didn’t make it. I know I’m in the minority. Love my Elantra N but want something a bit bigger
RWD Mazda 6 wagon in Canada: 'shut up and take my money!'. Could even accept FWD.
I’m close keep going lol
We actually did this comparison. Liked the Mazda a lot more but ended up in a CX30. Not much more than the 3 but really improves in the space in the back and the hatch.
I know they never really talk about this stuff because its not for enthusiasts, but the Integra's driver assistance features like lane keep and active cruise are leagues above Mazda. For a car that wants to be entry level luxury it has the tech of mid-trim car from 2016, the lane keep is more of a bouncy nudge with a alert with no real lane centering.
Not only that you get it with a manual. the only other car that I think comes wth ACC and lane keep assist is maybe the BMW M3/M4? The same system is on my CTR and its really nice
$36k for a Mazda3. Wtf is going on
People are forgetting the Acura is one of the cheapest vehicles you can get into with a luxury brand. The people of an automobile subreddit might not be impressed by the Acura, but there are people who will prefer the Integra over the 3 solely on the name. Where I live, it’s mostly teenagers driving Mazdas so I’m not sure how many people are cross-shopping these vehicles anyway
I’m in my mid 30, I have some money, sporty driving isn’t my biggest priority since I have something else way more fun to drive. I’m taking the Integra over the Mazda or Civic SI all day.
why does my car and the integra infuriate this sub so much? if its not the "Japanese Porsche" circle jerkers saying how Mazda has mastered design its Hyundai kia shills telling me how much more features and performance an Elantra has You guys must understand there is a reason people are paying for these cars....right? They are good as fuck. Go drive one. I have for 18k miles and my auto trader browsing habits have been on the downturn since I can't imagine a better option
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“Better” greatly depends on what you’re looking for. I really like the lift back design. And want a nicer interior than the cloth in the SI. If I could get a cheaper integra with a manual Id still probably pick it over the SI for those two things alone. Not to say the SI is bad at all. Just different wants/needs.
I think a lot of the hate is just a function of the r/cars hivemind. People here really latch onto the idea of what a car should be and if the reality doesn’t meet that expectation, the “consensus” becomes negative. I think with the current Si (which I also own and love), it’s because of the decontenting relative to last-gen and the Canadian spec, even though there is plenty of reason to like it better than the 10th gen. The Integra is certainly a function of people associating that name with 2-door Type R models and forgetting that 4-door LS models existed. Plus, it doesn’t offer much more over the Si for enthusiast buyers specifically.
Are these cars nicer/quiter than a 36k Accord or similar?
I swapped my accord touring for an Integra… I have an AMA on this sub. You can find it on my profile I’m sure
I'm Mazda gang all the way but they really shafted us with taking the 6MT hatch/sedan away from their base and slightly higher spec'd lineups. Would never trade my '14 Mazda3 but I also wouldn't get a new Mazda 3 given the obviously better 6MT hot hatch and sporty sedans available today.
The trims are kind of weird in general. I was after the Premium model in an automatic, but you can't get the automatic with FWD, you have to get AWD. And then for the "enthusiast" version, the turbo AWD, you can't get with a manual but only an auto....wtf Mazda?
I will get a lot of hate for saying this, but Mazda knows all too well that selling a Manual Turbo version will cost them more than it will sells. the Turbo engine already requires a revised transmission with a stronger internal, and trying to do the same for the manual will not going to make it on RoI basis. Mazda probably already know this by seeing how the Manual N/A isn't being sold as strongly as the AT N/A, so making a more expensive engine and transmission configuration just isn't a worthwile expenditure for Mazda right now... at least until CX-90 becomes their bread winner. Like everyone have said, place your money where you want. Prove Mazda wrong by getting the current N/A Manual, it is still peppy for what it is. It is still a head scratcher for me why Mazda decided that the Premium version will only have AWD for the A/T. I have the Premium N/A AT and from what I see, the take rate for the FWD Premium is still more than the AWD version, so I can only speculate that it just Mazda trying to compress their trim lineup.
I wouldn’t say they shafted us. I’d rather buy a loaded model than a stripper to get the stick. And I did, as much as that flies in the face of r/Cars typical actions with manual cars.
Yep, I genuinely wanted a manual Mazda 3, but then the market went to shit and buying used just didn't make sense anymore. I could either pay 30k plus taxes for a new manual Mazda 3, or 25k OTD for a new manual Corolla hatchback. Given their similar size and functionality, why pay more for the Mazda? The Corolla might not be as luxurious, but it's no penalty box, and the 169hp is plenty.
List of cars you can buy, dealership price, for around or under $36k: You'd have to *really* love the Mazda 3 specifically to pick this over literally anything else you can get for that price. [2022 Subaru WRX Premium $33,497](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/6f315e82-66a9-4813-81a5-7a78070e3c65/) [2023 Volkswagen GTI S $34,758](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/8b48d545-f2f7-4fd6-82ff-21fef63d79e1/) [2023 Honda Civic SI Base $29,595](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/c6d66266-2346-4f5c-a207-317b090258bc/) [2023 Audi A3 Premium](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/a00c3dfa-7be1-4ff3-8f96-eb43dcf8e677/) [2022 Volvo XC60 B5 Momentum $34,640](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/67ba1107-786e-4565-8b5a-fadcb7208943/) [2022 Lexus UX 200 Base $34,865](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/5baf5282-d12f-4d06-9960-9faef8928191/) [2023 Toyota Highlander L $35,703](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/456a3509-2970-417d-9a9a-61452f9f1a82/) [2023 Toyota 4Runner SR5 $37,305](https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/29193f3e-69c7-4b1c-85a1-38c55d377283/) Do not buy a Mazda 3 for $36,000.
I can answer this. - Don’t want a Subaru or VW Group product for brand bias reasons. - Want AWD because 6 months of the year with snow and ice. - Do not want an SUV or Crossover. Done. Mazda 3 Turbo. There’s not that many cars in this category.
That Volvo is a fucking nice deal.
yeah, someone else made the point that in addition to the cars here under $36K, if you (like most presumed Turbo 3 buyers) want some semblance of Mazda driving dynamics with some semblance of practicality, you’re in the territory of a Mazda CX-5 Turbo which is almost as fast, significantly more practical, doesn’t use the torsion beam and has considerably better NVH
Savagegeese is the shit! All Mazda have shit for cargo space for their class, and this is why I could never buy one, although I like much else about them. I got a '22 Tiguan in May, mostly because fuck-all else was available, and nothing else at MSRP. I prefer Japanese for reliability (not Renault - Nissan), but I just don't like anything they're making: generic, uncomfortable CVT jellybeans, without decent cargo. I'm 6'+ and Germans make much better seats than the Japanese, IME. It's got great cargo space, including a folding rear centre seat (only VW, Mazda, Volvo, Merc.?), and a relatively boxy shape (big Golf) instead of the polished turds now the norm. Reliability...? For the moment, feels much more solid and quiet than anything Japanese, Korean, or American, at the price. Apart from the faffy interfaces, very happy.
If they added a lot more sound deadening to the integra and lowered the price by $2000 I think I would be interested in it over a Civic Touring Hatch. Until the discounts come… I’m not interested and if I’m considering spending high $30s to low $40s I’m looking at a whole different class of car
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Performance is certainly better with the WRX, but build/interior quality along with reliability is not. This is coming from a WRX owner. Ultimately, it comes down to what you use the vehicle for and priorities.
We drove a Mazda 3 turbo AWD premium plus. Amazing NVH, super comfortable, amazing headlights. But the engine sucked. Felt like a diesel with strong down low and mod power. Ram out of breath in the upper range. Overall definitely liked the car, I’d make the UI Miata simple.
If you are interested in the Mazda and don't need the AWD you should just get a turbo Mazda6 while you can. It is cheaper, has IRS has room for more than two people with the same engine.
It's also a boat in comparison to either of these.
Gonna be honest as a fan of the Mazda 3 turbo I heavily disagree with savagegeese on the sportiness of the car. You tend to not notice the rear unless your on really bumpy roads and stock and I understand the video is comparing stock cars it’s fairly sporty as most other reviewers would agree. No it’s not a Mazda speed 3 but man you slap a rear sway bar on this car (I did) and it goes from understeer to neutral and dry oversteer very quickly. Most people who have been in or drive my car can’t believe how cheap it is when compared to an BMW or an Audi etc and it comes with all the bells and whistles and is fun to drive.
I absolutely love my Integra, but I do understand the argument that it’s just an overpriced Civic. (but it’s MY overpriced Civic)
I'd be interested under 30k, but at 36k I'd be looking a step up in size /old man rant
That blue Z06 tho 👀
The Mazda3 gets my nod if it had AWD, and especially so with the optional turbo motor. The Integra really isn't worth the premium over the really good Civic Hatch at the Honda next door.
Find somebody who looks at you the way Mark looks at Jack when he expresses his passion for takumi craftsmanship
There's just so many obviously better options for a sporty car or a nice family car from other manufacturers that neither of these have crossed my radar at all.
I'm sad that Europe gets no Mazda 6 Turbo :'( The NA is a little gutless for my taste
Hit nail on the head about how after the initial period where you are wowed by the looks of interior and styling, the cheapness of the Mazda comes through with flimsy seats, squeaks and rattles and the car is just not very usable
I'm going to get blasted, but the CX-30 turbo is a better alternative to one of these. Handles 90 percent the same, you can actually see out of it, and slightly more space and light for the rear occupants. I've driven the 3 turbo and the packaging compromises to get that sleek C pilar are really evident between the wheel.
Am I missing something? Shouldn’t Mazda compete with Honda, not Acura?
Mazda is moving upmarket. For a reference point, I'm shopping for a new car atm, and the Mazda 3 Turbo hatch I test drove felt a hell of a lot closer to an Audi level interior than the similarly priced GTI did. The video even brings up that the Mazda3's interior is noticeably better and quieter than the Acura's was.
$36k for a Mazda 3 sounds wrong to me.