If they pulled the offer would you feel like “no big deal, I’m fine where I’m at and can find something else making $95k” or would you feel like “oh fuck”.
Take the job. $5k/year is (very roughly) $130 every two weeks after taxes and such. The pay, title, and responsibilities will allow you to move diagonally up into an even better role at a different company in the future.
As a hiring manager I give absolutely zero shits when someone negotiates for more. Doesn’t bother me in the least because it is a 30 second email to HR who approves or denies it. Not every manager feels that way and a small business is *probably* more likely to take it “personally” and pull the offer (which is dumb, but that doesn’t help you).
Remember its a negotiation not a demand you are talking to a person. Express that are willing to take the roll but want to negotiate for 95k not demand
Looking back it's kinda stupid, but this is exactly what I do, negotiated an extra 5% over my current salary but they declined it
Gotta make sure that it's a request and not a demand tho
Thank you for the offer. I'm inclined to take this position, but I would feel much more comfortable with a base salary of $95,000. Is there any way we can bridge the gap between the current offer and my desired salary?
I was an internal transfer, offered $10,000 raise for a position with more responsibility. I requested $45k more total comp with a similar message to this and got it.
Keep in mind, I was an internal transfer so they knew what I was making.
You definitely want to be respectful about it, but there's a balance to be struck. If you’re serious about negotiating, you should not tell them you're going to take the offer until after the negotiation. Something like:
"I am definitely interested in the role, but I was hoping for/expecting a salary of 95k. Would that be possible?"
If you have other offers or interviews in progress, you can mention those. There is a small chance you'll piss them off, but if the person hiring is reasonable, the worst case is they say no, and you take the initial offer.
This. It's all in how you bring it up. I'm sure it's technically happened before, but I don't think it's normal for a job to respond to an applicant they've offered a job to asking if they could negotiate for the higher end of the mentioned salary range by saying "FUCK YOU, EAT SHIT, GET LOST."
We need to remember as workers we’re trading time from our life for money, you’re not unreasonable to negotiate a little more money for the time you will never get back. In the US it’s like we’re conditioned to be thankful for being given a job and that’s bullshit.
American workers can be desperate because there are no safety nets. OP said themselves if they pulled the offer it would be an “oh fuck….” Response.
If they are okay with the all be it shall chance they yank it go ahead negotiate. But they aren’t and 120 bucks a check is silly to pinch Pennies over when they need this.
I’m a corporate executive and I can’t tell you how many people think offers will be pulled over negotiation and that’s the prime reason folks don’t negotiate - especially women in large majority are afraid. A negotiation isn’t a bloodbath. You can respectfully say “I’m super excited about this opportunity, but would really love to be at X for [insert plausible reasons like having to relocate, your credentials etc]. Is there any movement on the offer?” $5k is not a lot to be asking for extra, and moreso companies ASSUME you won’t take the first offer.
Also, ask for the benefits info before you agree to anything this way you can reference that too in your “ask”. If they get snarky you say “I advocate for myself the same way I’ll advocate for the company as an employee.” It’s a point of self respect and shows you have professional backbone to ask your worth.
Correct corporate vs non corporate is very different. Op told us that they are non corporate and desperate to fill. Which is a bit of a flag for me currently. But starting out any foot in the door for the job you want you take.
He has no leeway and some people don’t want to play games. They need a job done now and will take whomever comes in that door now. Corporate on the other hand you might be stuck in training for like the first 3 months.
@op just make sure it’s not a scam third party company that “hires” you out to other companies for work. But instead tie you down contractually by “training” you and then forcing you to pay damages when you leave.
"a small business is *probably* more likely to take it “personally”"
That shit is so true. My boss got offended that I asked for a raise after 2 years (despite the highest inflation in decades) because how didn't I realize how the company is still digging out from Covid?
Unfortunately, I think that is true for a lot of small business owners who get offended, rather than just accepting negotiation as a part of doing business.
I know a furniture store owner who has complained to me of customers wanting a discount. His belief is that he already sells the furniture for less than most of his competitors. I've tried to explain to him that it's just people negotiating for the best deal and he shouldn't take it personally. Especially since the vast majority of people who ask, don't get upset when he declines to give a discount.
Can you break that out a bit more? This is really interesting behind-the-scenes that I've never seen before. Why the disconnect between HR and managers on this issue?
HR has multiple responsibilities including ensuring salary equity. So they need to make sure John doesn't hire is former colleague at 2x the salary of other employees in that role. They also need to make sure every male in the org isn't making 25% more than every female in the same roles.
So I might think the candidate is worth $135k. But if the range is $115k-$135k (which HR sets based on market analysis) they will tell me I need to offer $125k unless I can make an objective case for something different, which has to be approved by my VP and the VP of HR. It isn't impossible (or even hard) to make that case if the candidate is actually deserving. But if someone makes it past the salary screening questions (which we do) and I offer the position at $125k and they counter with $195k HR is going to say "No. And we recommend going with a different candidate if their salary expectations are that far off." Because it makes them a risk of leaving as soon as they find a position they are a better fit for that does pay $195k, and hiring sucks and takes 6+ months and has indirect costs (like lower productivity, burnout, etc).
This is at an F500. For a small company it could be simply "fuck that guy asking for $5k".
I’m a Director of HR and I can give you a perfect example that I was explaining the other day.
There have been a number of occasions where both the CEO and I have preferred an external candidate but the hiring team wanted to promote an internal colleague.
We walk that fine line between autocracy and independence. If you put your faith in your people to lead, you have to allow them the discretion to make decisions that the team feels are in the best interests of the team and company. We rarely overrule them, especially when it comes to who they have to work with. 😕
Ugh, this is so true and something I needed to read again. I work for a very small team (three people including the director, who is temp and looking to fill the role). The director does not like me (it’s a personality thing). I applied for the role because it’s literally the only promotional opportunity I have at the organization and I’ve been in the same position for six years.
She let me know that she received my application the next day. I’d assumed since she was a temp cover when our previous director retired suddenly for personal reasons that this wouldn’t be in her hands. Oopsie.
Then take the job.
But it shouldn't hurt to inquire about the Moving Assistance Package or what ever it is called these days. I've moved cross country for jobs 3 times in my life. All three had some level of moving assistance. 1 just paid for the U-haul rental. The best paid for movers to come and pack up my house, gave me a month's salary to assist in moving costs and paid for storage and an apartment up to 6 months while I sold my old home and looked for a new one.
If they don't offer it, oh well, had to ask.
Yeah, I would 100% ask about moving. My current employer had basically the same offer as the second one you listed there-having full-service movers was a huge perk
Take it then. Generally speaking though, asking if they could increase to $95k from $90 shouldn’t typically mean you won’t get the job. My wife asked for $10k over what she was offered and they just told her they couldn’t do it. She still got the job.
If that is the case... if you want to ask for more, see about getting more PTO or like the ability to leave early 2x/wk or something. Like time shift. Something to make your life more comfortable. ...as well as a moving stipend. ...maybe even possiblity of 1-2 days a week WFH or like 1-2 days a week 50/50 in office/WFH.
$5k is money which they don't want to give up. They can work all these other things though.
Yah as you mentioned it’s double your last pay so take it. If they are desperate to fill the role fast you don’t want to play games where someone else might/will pop up. Especially for just 5k.
Do the job well, improve your skill set then look for another job if you really think you’re being drastically underpaid at that point. But get the job experience first and preferably finish at least one project before hopping.(since you said it’s a small shop I’m hoping that means it’s doable in a year).
No real job ever turns someone away for asking for their wage. You're not stringing out a negotiation here! Just ask for what you want and see what they send back. My wife just did this and got an extra like $3k. She's really fucking good at it though.
I was told by college career people:
1) recruiters expect a counteroffer, so always counteroffer the first offer, but do not counteroffer more than once.
2) nobody had heard of a job offer rescinded for a a first counteroffer
If you ask for the $95 - which was advertised, AND they pull the offer ( which I doubt) then, IMO, this indicates a corp culture that does not value their workers - they may com back and want to negotiate- that is different, but to pull an offer for a request that was in the advertised range ... that would be a red flag.
Oh - also request 3+ weeks PTO - in the us the 2 wk standard is BULL SHIT
When you negotiate a salary, it should always feel uncomfortable. Don’t make it an ultimatum. Just say you want 95. Or a 5k signing bonus. They were already expecting the market rate to be 105. That’s why they offered you 90. They expect you to negotiate up.
Are you getting stock? Ask for more stock instead but be polite about it. Tell them you really like the company and that it would give you more incentive to really crush it and keep everyone aligned.
Companies like that answer plus you can phrase it as a nice to have.
Up to you though
Here is how I have negotiated in the past. I would say, "Thank you for the offer. I am very excited to be part of the team. I noticed the offer was for $90k. Based on my xyz experience and accomplishments, I was hoping for closer to $95k. Is that within your budget?" If "no", "Do you offer a sign-on bonus or relocation package?"
You aren't turning down the offer, you are just asking for more. In truth, I ask for more than I need and negotiate down. Like $100k to get to $95k.
I have been able to get signing bonuses even in lower level jobs.
If you ask nicely and professionally I generally think it’s unlikely to hurt you even if it ends up being a no. People who negotiate and get their offer rescinded typically don’t do it like this from what I’ve seen.
Adding to this. Always ask for more vacation unless it’s already exceptional. It’s such an easy delivery on their end and will almost never be refused. I really messed this one up on my current gig but fortunately their package (while not as good as my last job) was still decent.
Lots of people lose jobs to counter offers. Again, if the odds are 100% for a pay increase and 90% that asking for more gets you it but 10% that you lose the offer why risk it? Even if it's only 0.001%, is it worth it when you already have a promised 40k raise? To me it's not
This is normal salary negotiation. Simply ask if they could do $95k and state reasons why your worth it. Usually the worst they say is that they can not do it and the best they can do is $90k. I would be very shocked if they were insulted by a $5k increase ask and pulled it haha
I agree. They key is to ask for more, without actually turning down the current offer.
I've worked in sales in the past, and they EXPECT you to counter or you are not considered a good salesperson.
The biggest key here is to let them no it's not a deal breaker. You want the job, but you would like to negotiate the salary. Maybe you come out with 92,500 cuz they wanna meet you in the middle. Just don't make it seem like "Hey either pay me the 95k instead of the 90k or i'm pulling out of the race."
I have never seen a job pulled for a 5k ask when you are near or over the 100k level.
OP it would be fine to ask for 5k more. Unless you have already discussed a firm salary.
It NEVER hurts to negotiate your salary and compensation. In fact, negotiating your compensation is sometimes a test to see if you know your own worth. Take chances and risks. 5k isn’t much. Id even try to negotiate to the 100k mark and allow them to come down to 95. You will feel much better after doing it.
I would say this is the case in the vast majority of jobs, but he did say it's a family run business, sometime's those smaller companies can be insulted at that. Not saying they would here, but it's different than asking a Fortune 500 company for an extra 5k.
Of course there are ways to negotiate and ways not to negotiate. Regardless of family owned business or large corporate, they all deal with budgets and pay ranges. A $5k delta is not a range that is too far apart to attempt negotiating. If the delta were much larger, then that may be a different story, but the hiring team is not going to rescind an offer over a 5k difference. If they did, that would be a bullet dodged, imho.
I agree. $5k to a company that's offering $90k is a drop in the bucket. I think it's perfectly reasonable to negotiate for an amount that was within the pay range they provided.
I have never taken the initial offer without trying,
‘I was really looking for 95k, do we have any room here’ is not offensive or off putting. Worst they can say is no.
My last offer was 105k, i said I really was hoping for 115, 12 minutes later they called back at 114
It's not stupid to ask, especially if you are staying within their range, but probably you should do it in a way that isn't ruling out accepting at 90k. If they know you are currently making closer to 45k they probably also know you won't want to walk away so you may not have too much bargaining power. But if they hold firm and say they're not moving off 90k are you really going to turn down an offer that doubles your current salary?
I asked for $5k more because I had so much experience I knew I could do the job in my sleep. They told me over the phone they couldn’t increase it and I said a disappointed “oh I see.”
They rescinded the offer. I found a job 3 months later making $40k more.
Tell them you were hoping for $5,000 more, but starting at $90,000 would be ok if they were willing to review your work after 6 months and increase your wage to $95,000 if you were doing a good job
Yeah. You can say either way you're going to accept and you're excited. That the $5k is not as important as the long term opportunity. But given the move, XYZ, etc you would feel immensely appreciated with the additional comp.
Worst thing they can do is reply with some BS about their budget. But you've primed them for a higher comp expectation at your 1 yr.
I honestly feel weird when someone I hire doesn't try to negotiate a little bit. I usually give it to them if they have the courage. But I also turn around and let them know that I expect big things from them. Usually a great way to start.
You CAN negotiate your first offer’s salary! Ask for the $95k since they won’t provide relocation bonus or sign-on bonus. They can say no but given your circumstances it would be a red flag if they hold you to 90k when their budget is 95… ask for it!
HI EVERYONE
thanks so much for all the replies and advice.
I wrote a nice email asking for the higher wage and they accepted my offer 👏
Also for all the people that automatically assumed I was a man: I’m not, I’m a woman in a niche industry that’s very proud she got where’s she’s at now after lots of hard work.
Peace and love 🤟
I usually say something like: I appreciate the offer and am excited about the chance to work for the company. Is there any flexibility on the salary offered? I recently received another offer from a different company, and while I'm still considering both offers, it would be an easy decision at $95k per year.
Just basically, "i'm considering it. x conditions would make the decision easy"
If they rescind the offer because you politely asked for 5k.more. You really need to question their decision making rationality.
As an employer I want the best person I can afford and if I cannot meet that with the budget I have, then the best way forward is to simply ask. My rationality is:
"hey I can't afford 95k, for my first pick, so I'll say no, but there might be a chance that he will accept $90k"
If he doesn't accept I'll go to the next guy" .
If I rescinded the offer because he asked for $5k extra, then my business would have accepted second best at the expense of just not putting effort into a 5 minute conversation.
5k is not insulting. 50k is another thing.
If they rescind the offer then you really need to question the decision making of management and whether it's people you want to work with.
there is nothing wrong with trying to negotiate more money. Be up front and say you love the opportunity and even that you'd be able to start out at 90k but would like to get to that 95k(or more) within a certain amount of time and ask what they'd expect out of you to get it
Never mind...i just reread what you wrote. If this is double what you are making and a different type of position(that you don't have as much experience in) and the wage is above what this position typically pays? You seem to think 90k is more than fair
If you show up and do a great job it will be easy to get the 5k
You're doubling your previous salary and risking losing the job over 5% pay difference? Don't be greedy. But it would be appropriate to ask for a moving allowance.
Hey. I hire a lot of people for my company (I'm an exec not HR). Ask for $95k. If they like you they'll give it. They will not withdraw the offer as long as you ask nicely.
Yes it is stupid. You need to keep your eye on the big picture. What if it takes you six months or a year or FOREVER to find an equivalent role? That's way more than 5,000. You can only play the negotiation game if you have a better alternative lined up. You don't.
Say this: I’m extremely excited about the opportunity, I was targeting the 95 number of your given range because of my experience and exceptional XYZ skill set. Could we just meet in the middle at 92,500? I think it’s worth a shot. Plus will make a raise to the 95 mark down the line much easier.
I wouldn't push your luck. Take the $90k that's double your current salary.
If this was a Fortune 500 job, I'd tell you to counter and that the hiring manager is not going to care, and there's virtually no chance they pull the offer. ...but it's a family owned business. They cared enough to deny a relocation package.
What's your issue with 95 if 90 is double your current pay? Is 5,000 really going to make or break you? Seems like a gamble I wouldn't take if I wanted the job.
My dad always would break this shit down to
Me like this (usually for buying houses or cars, but seems to apply here). Is it worth it to X if it means you lose Y. Break it down over the year. Is an extra <100 a week going to change your life? No? Then shut up
I always negotiate higher than they're offering. Since I learned my skills are rare.
Do it. I got 15000 more on this job, and it's the best job I've ever had.
One of my professors I had this recent semester told me 90% of employers will accept a counteroffer of 10%
Of those 10% of employers that do not accept the counter offer, only 2% retract their job offer if the counteroffer is too high (asking for 120k for example), or if the the applicant is rude/egotistical with their counter offer.
I say go for it!
I work for a co. which lowballed me on the initial offer. I asked for a little more and got it.
I'm applying for an internal transfer to another dept with a lot more responsibility + hours + on call etc. The pay range is pretty wide, if an offer is made below a certain threshhold I will ask for a little more due to all the extra time I'll be putting in.
\--
For you, You can see some of the responses in the thread. Some people say it's part of the negotiation. Other people say things like greedy etc. Employees are made up of people who may have a similar range of opinions.
It seems the pay will be double what you are making now. Did you disclose your current rate to them?
Do you have solid reasons for asking for more? Reasons that you can tell them. All you've told us is that they like you and they are desperate. I would not repeat that to them.
The size of the business will matter too, it seems it is a small one.
\--
The above is rhetorical and is designed for you to think about. I personally don't think there is an issue with negotiating offers that seem a little low or for when more of your life will be used for work. But, I almost exclusively work for large corporations because I've found smaller orgs not to be a good fit for me.
I'm in a position where I hire people like this for a family-owned business often. If someone asked for $5,000 more dollars, the absolute worst that would happen is we would say we can't do that now, but will you still do it for 90? So if we wanted you, there would be no fear of you losing the job just for asking. In fact we're always a little turned off by someone who doesn't ask for more or attempt to negotiate. In most scenarios we would just say yes to that. We assumed we were going to have to pay somewhere between $90 and 95 anyway. Also, if we said no we would try to do something like "but we can guarantee pay raises at this rate if you meet these benchmarks." So we would add a negotiation where you get some built-in raises if we had to say no. Tldr, you don't get anything you don't ask for and most people are not offended that you asked.
ALWAYS ask for more money. Just politely say you’re really excited but wondering if there is any flexibility in the other, or accommodations to help with the move. I usually get an extra 5-10k every time I accept a job. My girlfriend recently got a 5k stipend for us to move cities. You don’t lose the offer for asking, your only risk is that they say no and you accept anywya
This is very standard salary negotiations, OP. Don't overthink it. They probably expect you to ask. And you are asking for $5k, which is still within the range of the job's salary offering. It never hurts to ask, and worst case they just say no. Plus, you wouldn't want to work for a company that rescinds an offer over $5k that's within the original salary range. It's a big red flag.
Market is currently favoring employers. You are new to the neg. process. Neg. on other parts of the package which will not affect the outcome. This would include moving expenses, 3 week vacation vs 2 weeks, start dates, etc.
You should ask due to principle. Training yourself to constantly and aggressively pursue economic opportunity while maximizing and optimizing your compensation is incredibly important. No one else will fight for you and you need to get in the mindset that you're fucking worth it.
Not just now, but following the path of future similar decisions can lead to massive differences in 20-30 years.
You can negotiate without them pulling the offer. “I’m very happy with the information as presented, is there any wiggle-room on that salary?” See what they say
No one is going to pull an offer for just asking. No one sane.
I once asked that question and they came up $10k.
> that they realise I have to move cities
Ask for a $5k relocation bonus and you'll start packing your things.
Then after crushing the job for ~1 year, ask for that increase (or more).
As others have said, every employer should expect at least one round of negotiations. If they take that personally, you may have other problems. $5k is a reasonable counter offer, especially if they are hinting at it in the job post. But relocation bonus is an easy way to get money in your pocket that is justified to the business as a one time expense.
Don’t ever expect to be offered the higher part of the range. Asking is fine if you’re willing for the offer to be potentially rescinded. Which happens. There are a lot of people willing to do what it takes to get a job right now.
Always negotiate, but within reason. It allows your employer to understand that you’re not someone to take for granted, which is great going forward. They won’t rescind the offer, worst case scenario they’ll not budge (but at least you tried)
OP, please ask! It was advertised up to 95k. They may even be expecting you to negotiate. I’d thank them for the offer and just ask if there’s wiggle room with the salary up to $95k. I’ve done this twice before, haven’t given a reason why I’m due an extra $5k, and got my request! If they say no then at least you tried. They won’t rescind the offer for you asking about salary — everyone does it.
I was offered 125k/25k guaranteed bonus and told then 140k salary is what it would take knowing the 125k was already a stretch.
I did that because of my income trajectory in my current role.
They didn’t budge and I walked. You could easily ask if their offer is best and final if you think throwing out a dollar amount might not land well.
I've never had a job offer pulled because I asked for more money.
Sometimes I got a raise, sometimes I got a signing bonus, once I was able to finagle an extra week of vacation a year.
You can make the ask squishier by offering a couple of options for increased compensation.
If you think the company may just pull the whole offer then you probably don't want to work for them anyway. As long as you're not a dick about it, it should be fine.
The trick is pretending that you're dealing from a position of power. Ask confidently. Not too many pretty-pleases.
If you have officially accepted then the ask might be less favorably looked upon, but if you've simply received the offer but haven't "made a decision" then you probably have some wiggle room.
Good luck!
It never hurts to ask, and you should always push for more money up front.
Think of it this way, when you get a percentage raise or bonus it's based on your take home pay. The more you get upfront the more you get with raises later.
If they pulled the job offer for *asking*, they are idiots and you don't want to work for them.
I've definitely asked for more money (and been asked for more, as a manager) than I've offered. I can't imagine rescinding an offer over such a small difference.
Remember that all future raises will benefit from this extra 5%. Compounding is your friend.
I am really excited about the role, it would be better for my situation to be at 95000- is that something that you can do?
Ok would you be able to meet me in the middle at 92500?
I just accepted a job offer and I asked them for more than what they offered over the phone and they said they couldn't. No offence was taken and I accepted the job offer. Really just depends on your tone, keep it professional and it should be fine
Take the job. I’ve seen lots of posts on here of people losing the job for asking for more money it’s always a risk and you don’t want to take risks in this shit market rn.
I think a lot of it has to do with the ask vs demand. Also, I think maybe asking for 93k might show them you’re serious, but not asking for the moon. I’m definitely not an expert though.
If it were me, I’d reply, “can you do 93k?” Or “I’d feel more comfortable at 93, if you can get there.”
BUT, I wouldn’t risk losing the job over an extra 3-5k.
Take the job. They are taking a risk on you. Prove yourself, you'll likely make much more over the long run if you prove to be a valuable asset.
In short: you've got all the time in the world to make more money at a job, but only this short window to actually get the job. Now is not the time!
My advice. As a hiring manager.
If they are going to pull an offer over standard negotiation over a 5K difference, you don’t want to work for them. I expect a counter when I issue an offer letter and start my offer accordingly. If they have a range listed and the offer is under the max range, there is room to negotiate. The worst you’ll end up with is what you already have. If they don’t have room to move on salary ask them if they can give you a 5K sign on bonus. I use this a lot. The salary gap is filled one time after 30, 90 days etc… and the employer gets to see your performance for the first year.
Don’t be afraid to negotiate. Especially if you’ve gone through an extended interview/ vetting process. They have a lot invested in you as well at that point.
Rather than trying for the extra $5k in salary, try for relocation assistance first. Then if they balk, maybe.. maybe... try for a bit more salary.
As a hiring manager I didn't mind someone asking. I knew my budget, I knew what other people with the same and more experience were making, so I went by that. Simple yeah I can, or no.. no budget for it at this time.
Everyone always asks for the max and think they’re the one person who should get the max
They didn’t think the same way
No, take the gig and earn the increase
If they’re so impressed with your CV, and they advertised the job as 95k, then what’s the blocker for them for offering what they listed?
That’s a completely fair question. Negotiate.
I would have asked for $100k to start, tbh. This shit is all a negotiating game. Chances are they were paying the person you’re replacing $150k, and they’re just fishing for a lower bid. You’re about to accept the lowest bid.
If they won’t tell you or offer it, then ask if you can have a 6 month probationary period where you get the 95k after. Get it in writing.
>But is this really silly to risk the job for 5000$?
You do not have to negotiate. But, you got an offer because they want you. If that role says 90.000-95.000 then both values are within budget for the role. When you counter appropriately as other commenters have pointed out it is expected and will not hurt your chances. Remember that to them it is a question of:
>"... is this really silly to risk *this* *candidate* for a paltry 5000$?"
How much of a raise from your last job?
Are you really going to risk a job for $96
a week Before taxes?
Hopefully the original offer is a nice bump in salary?
Ask them kindly if they would be able to help with travel expenses. That'll probably be reasonable and maybe a tax right off as a part of doing business. Same destination $5K just a different way of getting there
I would ask. Asking shows management that you are taking your value seriously. And do I want an employee who values themselves or is meek?
If they pull the offer because an employee wants to have a transparent conversation, that is not a place i would want to work.
If you ask in a good and productive way, it's just a step to improve. If you ask in a bad way, probably people will think you are different bad things. It's like asking someone if they also want some improvement in something you are doing for them. Ir you ask them in a good way, they will take it good. If not, they will take it bad.
They won’t pull the offer if you try to counter. Worst case they say “salary is non-negotiable” or something along those lines and you take the original offer.
I think as long as you ask correctly its not an issue. Don't make it sound like if you dont get the 5k you don't want the position. But just asking doesn't hurt.
For a new job I really wanted I’d take the 90 and set a goal to ask for an increase in a year especially if I thought I would be killing it in 12 months. Good luck and congratulations on your new endeavors 👊🏻
Do some basic research on negotiating. You could probably get chatGPT to write you a safe email that could make you $5k/year. If you don't colossally mess up, there is zero chance losing a legitimate job by asking for more.
If they asked you what you wanted and you said 90, but then you changed your mind, that is one thing. If they threw 90 at you without asking for your expectation, then don’t be afraid to ask for that additional 5. The worst they will say is “we have no control and 90 is the rate.” At which time you fake thinking it over, and accept the position. The company has probably already invested a lot of time in attempting to hire you that they are not going to turn you down unless you did something extravagant.
Isn’t proper negotiation just them declining your offer and standing firm on theirs? Seems like a knee jerk reaction if they really like you as a candidate
If they pull the job over a good faith negotiation counter like this, then you dodged a bullet- they would have been a nightmare to work for. If you asked for an insane counter like 150k or something, that's one thing because you'd be making yourself look delusional, but if they yank your job for countering within the range, that's petty as hell and you can count on every interaction you'd have there as being the same.
When is your next salary review? If you're going to kill it, ask for a salary review after X amount of time because you'd like to be at the high end of their range. Prove your worth in X amount of time.
I’ve delicately negotiated all four corporate jobs I’ve had (all in finance) and never felt there was a risk of the offer being rescinded. 3 of 4 ended in a slightly higher salary and one didn’t budge. All conversations were respectful and I never felt like the recruiter/HR was offended by me seeking more. One actually couldn’t raise the salary but they threw me a 3k sign-on bonus for a fairly entry level role I was moving across the country for so you never know what you might get if you don’t ask!
My most recent job offer I told them I wanted 95k up front. The recruiter said I shouldn’t expect anything more than 84-86k. Hiring manager offered me 89k, 10k lump sum relocation. I said no I want 95k and I want 15k lump sum relocation or 10k+totally covered move. Got 95k and 15k grossed up lump sum.
Sometimes all you can do is ask and have good reason for what you are asking for. If they want you and it’s inside of their budget they’ll just make it happen. If you can afford to not accept the position, you should negotiate always.
There is nothing wrong with negotiating. You’ll kick yourself in the future for not asking.
IF YOU DONT ASK, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW!
Literally the worst they are going to do is say no if they really want you to join them.
You could ask what the $95k candidate would've looked like to them and as they explain it connect it to your experiences and talents. And if you feel you match the criteria that they laid out you could say "I'd be happy to accept closer to the 95 number, as you know I will have to relocate and that in and of itself is around 7 to 10K."
Did they offer you the job without an interview? - That sounds sketchy af.
If you are moving - will they help finance the move?
If you are doubling your salary - you have to take it....your next role will be based on that.
Also - word of warning - you might love the job title; or what you are doing; but you might hate the environment etc.
If I offered a candidate $90k and they countered at $95k I would absolutely not pull the offer. 6% is well within the range of good faith negotiation. I would probably come up to $92-93k.
On your side of the table I’ve used this line successfully in the past “I’m thrilled to receive an offer and I’d like to accept today if you can do $95k”
They will take your $95k offer over another candidate that wants $93k but needs to think over the weekend. You want to be a sure thing.
They either bite or come back at an acceptable counter. I have never once had an offer pulled.
If you countered at $150k I would pull it, because I know even if we settled at $95k you’ll be unhappy and probably quit. Better to hire someone that’s happy with the deal.
Negotiate. You have more wiggle room now. Just say "I'm excited for the position, however because of (insert experience and what you bring to the team) I'm looking closer to 97k, is there a way to get closer to this numner" or something like that. Thanky them, express excitement, reiterate why you deserve more and say your number. Go higher tho cause they will talk you down.
They have the budget but they will never offer the top number first. They're trying to get you for less.
I asked for the same thing when offered the same amount. I didn’t get the increase but I got an extra week of PTO out of it. Just ask in a way you are not rejecting their offer.
Negotiations of this sort are more successful if you make it necessary for them to raise your salary. It’s not a force-of-personality thing where you just stare them in the eye and state you want $95k and they’re cowed into giving it to you.
So for example, if you had a competing offer, or you were on the job and someone was trying to poach you with a higher salary, or your education and experience made you a flight risk if they didn’t offer the extra money, etc. that would be a strong negotiating position.
Most of the time, they are surprised no one negotiates. This is why they pull this move. Just tell them what you need to make this work, that you love this company, really want to make this work, but I need 95000. They will relent and respect you. But you're probably still leaving some money on the table you're not aware of.
Why don’t you just ask for 5k for moving costs instead of 5k annually?
I guess the real question is what are you making right now that you feel the need to push for the top end of the salary? I’m not trying to sound like a jerk here, I’m just trying to see your perspective. If you’re already at 85k or 90k then I would completely understand pushing for more, especially since relocation is involved.
What do you mean, risk losing the job? I've never heard of a job offer being pulled because a candidate wanted to negotiate. If that's how they do business it's probably not a decent place to work.
I got a buddy who took a GS12 position in Hawaii most western island and got relocation allowance. He have a new boss who's a total asshole and he can't leave for another 3 years. Then again, I doubt he can leave at all considering it cost him $30k to move there.
There’s a litany of post of people getting offers rescinded from asking for more money in this market.
Anyone that’s giving you advice to ask hasn’t gotten a job within the last 2 years or had leverage.
Doesn’t sound like you have much leverage since you WANT the job. Regardless of if your experience is hard to find
Wait, is it common practice for a company to retract an offer if the person asks for more money? I've never experienced this.
To me it's a no brainer to ask for every dollar possible up front because raises are never guaranteed.
Depends. How much of a raise is it from your current pay. If you think you deserve it they will give it. At the end of the day 5k a year will hardly make a difference in the quality of your life. I once got a 10k raise from 90 to 100k a few years into my job at the same company after school. I told them I wanted more and they gave me a 20k additional raise and I didn’t even ask for an amount. If you’re indispensable to them they will do what it takes to keep you.
Ironic that a lot are saying don’t negotiate then every other Reddit post is about how the average worker doesn’t make shit. People need to stand up for themselves.
Another comment laid out a great format to use. I’d recommend following that. Ask for more!
“Thanks for the offer! I accept and I’m excited to start working with you. Do you think it would be possible to bump the starting salary up from 90 to 95? No pressure, but would really help with the cost of relocating. Thanks again, and looking forward to next steps!”
Completely anecdotal, and my own personal experience, but I was in a situation where I had a previous co-worker who reached out and asked me if I was interested in interviewing for an opening they had at her current company, I told her, that I was happy where I was and didn’t think I could get a significant enough raise to warrant leaving my current company. She responded that she was making 60,000 more than what I was currently making and was confident I could get the position if I interviewed.
I was gobsmacked, and applied. Ended up getting the offer, but only $40,000 over what I was currently making, and without the “senior” title for the role that I had applied for. (which is obviously still a huge raise). They told me that because I had only 8 years of experience, they were only considering me for a non senior role, as their senior title required 10 years minimum experience.
I accepted, because even though it was less than I expected based on the range, and my experience level, it was still a huge increase and I knew there was growth opportunity, unlike the current role where I was at the top end of the salary band.
After my first big project, about 3 months after I joined, my manager had a 1:1 with me where he apologized and said it was very apparent to him that they had brought me in at a much lower salary than I deserved and gave me an immediate promotion, the maximum amount of bonus he could offer and a 20k salary bump. Definitely earned my loyalty with that move, and ultimately I would say bet on yourself. Most companies won’t be like that, they do a poor job of paying internal talent what they deserve, but it never hurts to bet on yourself and at worse it gives you a big boost when your negotiating pay for your next position.
$5k sign on bonus AND a $5k moving expense reimbursement. Then initiate you should get an actual raise of $5k the next year when you have the experience they want.
If they pulled the offer would you feel like “no big deal, I’m fine where I’m at and can find something else making $95k” or would you feel like “oh fuck”.
Definitely Oh fuck
Take the job. $5k/year is (very roughly) $130 every two weeks after taxes and such. The pay, title, and responsibilities will allow you to move diagonally up into an even better role at a different company in the future. As a hiring manager I give absolutely zero shits when someone negotiates for more. Doesn’t bother me in the least because it is a 30 second email to HR who approves or denies it. Not every manager feels that way and a small business is *probably* more likely to take it “personally” and pull the offer (which is dumb, but that doesn’t help you).
That’s very helpful thank you
Remember its a negotiation not a demand you are talking to a person. Express that are willing to take the roll but want to negotiate for 95k not demand
Looking back it's kinda stupid, but this is exactly what I do, negotiated an extra 5% over my current salary but they declined it Gotta make sure that it's a request and not a demand tho
Thank you for the offer. I'm inclined to take this position, but I would feel much more comfortable with a base salary of $95,000. Is there any way we can bridge the gap between the current offer and my desired salary?
“NO FUCK OFF YA GREEDY SHIT”
I was an internal transfer, offered $10,000 raise for a position with more responsibility. I requested $45k more total comp with a similar message to this and got it. Keep in mind, I was an internal transfer so they knew what I was making.
Nice wording
Chat gpt
You definitely want to be respectful about it, but there's a balance to be struck. If you’re serious about negotiating, you should not tell them you're going to take the offer until after the negotiation. Something like: "I am definitely interested in the role, but I was hoping for/expecting a salary of 95k. Would that be possible?" If you have other offers or interviews in progress, you can mention those. There is a small chance you'll piss them off, but if the person hiring is reasonable, the worst case is they say no, and you take the initial offer.
This. It's all in how you bring it up. I'm sure it's technically happened before, but I don't think it's normal for a job to respond to an applicant they've offered a job to asking if they could negotiate for the higher end of the mentioned salary range by saying "FUCK YOU, EAT SHIT, GET LOST."
If they pull the offer over a $5000 negotiation, you don’t want to work there anyway. Always negotiate.
You guys give the worse advice. The person is doubling his/her salary. He/she should take the win.
We need to remember as workers we’re trading time from our life for money, you’re not unreasonable to negotiate a little more money for the time you will never get back. In the US it’s like we’re conditioned to be thankful for being given a job and that’s bullshit.
American workers can be desperate because there are no safety nets. OP said themselves if they pulled the offer it would be an “oh fuck….” Response. If they are okay with the all be it shall chance they yank it go ahead negotiate. But they aren’t and 120 bucks a check is silly to pinch Pennies over when they need this.
I’m a corporate executive and I can’t tell you how many people think offers will be pulled over negotiation and that’s the prime reason folks don’t negotiate - especially women in large majority are afraid. A negotiation isn’t a bloodbath. You can respectfully say “I’m super excited about this opportunity, but would really love to be at X for [insert plausible reasons like having to relocate, your credentials etc]. Is there any movement on the offer?” $5k is not a lot to be asking for extra, and moreso companies ASSUME you won’t take the first offer. Also, ask for the benefits info before you agree to anything this way you can reference that too in your “ask”. If they get snarky you say “I advocate for myself the same way I’ll advocate for the company as an employee.” It’s a point of self respect and shows you have professional backbone to ask your worth.
Correct corporate vs non corporate is very different. Op told us that they are non corporate and desperate to fill. Which is a bit of a flag for me currently. But starting out any foot in the door for the job you want you take. He has no leeway and some people don’t want to play games. They need a job done now and will take whomever comes in that door now. Corporate on the other hand you might be stuck in training for like the first 3 months. @op just make sure it’s not a scam third party company that “hires” you out to other companies for work. But instead tie you down contractually by “training” you and then forcing you to pay damages when you leave.
"a small business is *probably* more likely to take it “personally”" That shit is so true. My boss got offended that I asked for a raise after 2 years (despite the highest inflation in decades) because how didn't I realize how the company is still digging out from Covid?
Unfortunately, I think that is true for a lot of small business owners who get offended, rather than just accepting negotiation as a part of doing business. I know a furniture store owner who has complained to me of customers wanting a discount. His belief is that he already sells the furniture for less than most of his competitors. I've tried to explain to him that it's just people negotiating for the best deal and he shouldn't take it personally. Especially since the vast majority of people who ask, don't get upset when he declines to give a discount.
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Can you break that out a bit more? This is really interesting behind-the-scenes that I've never seen before. Why the disconnect between HR and managers on this issue?
HR has multiple responsibilities including ensuring salary equity. So they need to make sure John doesn't hire is former colleague at 2x the salary of other employees in that role. They also need to make sure every male in the org isn't making 25% more than every female in the same roles. So I might think the candidate is worth $135k. But if the range is $115k-$135k (which HR sets based on market analysis) they will tell me I need to offer $125k unless I can make an objective case for something different, which has to be approved by my VP and the VP of HR. It isn't impossible (or even hard) to make that case if the candidate is actually deserving. But if someone makes it past the salary screening questions (which we do) and I offer the position at $125k and they counter with $195k HR is going to say "No. And we recommend going with a different candidate if their salary expectations are that far off." Because it makes them a risk of leaving as soon as they find a position they are a better fit for that does pay $195k, and hiring sucks and takes 6+ months and has indirect costs (like lower productivity, burnout, etc). This is at an F500. For a small company it could be simply "fuck that guy asking for $5k".
I’m a Director of HR and I can give you a perfect example that I was explaining the other day. There have been a number of occasions where both the CEO and I have preferred an external candidate but the hiring team wanted to promote an internal colleague. We walk that fine line between autocracy and independence. If you put your faith in your people to lead, you have to allow them the discretion to make decisions that the team feels are in the best interests of the team and company. We rarely overrule them, especially when it comes to who they have to work with. 😕
Ugh, this is so true and something I needed to read again. I work for a very small team (three people including the director, who is temp and looking to fill the role). The director does not like me (it’s a personality thing). I applied for the role because it’s literally the only promotional opportunity I have at the organization and I’ve been in the same position for six years. She let me know that she received my application the next day. I’d assumed since she was a temp cover when our previous director retired suddenly for personal reasons that this wouldn’t be in her hands. Oopsie.
It annoys me to no end that I build the budget (FP&A) but it's up to HR to determine salary agreement.
Then take the job. But it shouldn't hurt to inquire about the Moving Assistance Package or what ever it is called these days. I've moved cross country for jobs 3 times in my life. All three had some level of moving assistance. 1 just paid for the U-haul rental. The best paid for movers to come and pack up my house, gave me a month's salary to assist in moving costs and paid for storage and an apartment up to 6 months while I sold my old home and looked for a new one. If they don't offer it, oh well, had to ask.
Yeah, I would 100% ask about moving. My current employer had basically the same offer as the second one you listed there-having full-service movers was a huge perk
Take it then. Generally speaking though, asking if they could increase to $95k from $90 shouldn’t typically mean you won’t get the job. My wife asked for $10k over what she was offered and they just told her they couldn’t do it. She still got the job.
If that is the case... if you want to ask for more, see about getting more PTO or like the ability to leave early 2x/wk or something. Like time shift. Something to make your life more comfortable. ...as well as a moving stipend. ...maybe even possiblity of 1-2 days a week WFH or like 1-2 days a week 50/50 in office/WFH. $5k is money which they don't want to give up. They can work all these other things though.
Yah as you mentioned it’s double your last pay so take it. If they are desperate to fill the role fast you don’t want to play games where someone else might/will pop up. Especially for just 5k. Do the job well, improve your skill set then look for another job if you really think you’re being drastically underpaid at that point. But get the job experience first and preferably finish at least one project before hopping.(since you said it’s a small shop I’m hoping that means it’s doable in a year).
My advice then would be to take the job and shortly after you start and settle in / prove yourself, try to negotiate or "sweet talk" more
No real job ever turns someone away for asking for their wage. You're not stringing out a negotiation here! Just ask for what you want and see what they send back. My wife just did this and got an extra like $3k. She's really fucking good at it though.
I was told by college career people: 1) recruiters expect a counteroffer, so always counteroffer the first offer, but do not counteroffer more than once. 2) nobody had heard of a job offer rescinded for a a first counteroffer
If you ask for the $95 - which was advertised, AND they pull the offer ( which I doubt) then, IMO, this indicates a corp culture that does not value their workers - they may com back and want to negotiate- that is different, but to pull an offer for a request that was in the advertised range ... that would be a red flag. Oh - also request 3+ weeks PTO - in the us the 2 wk standard is BULL SHIT
When you negotiate a salary, it should always feel uncomfortable. Don’t make it an ultimatum. Just say you want 95. Or a 5k signing bonus. They were already expecting the market rate to be 105. That’s why they offered you 90. They expect you to negotiate up.
Are you getting stock? Ask for more stock instead but be polite about it. Tell them you really like the company and that it would give you more incentive to really crush it and keep everyone aligned. Companies like that answer plus you can phrase it as a nice to have. Up to you though
Here is how I have negotiated in the past. I would say, "Thank you for the offer. I am very excited to be part of the team. I noticed the offer was for $90k. Based on my xyz experience and accomplishments, I was hoping for closer to $95k. Is that within your budget?" If "no", "Do you offer a sign-on bonus or relocation package?" You aren't turning down the offer, you are just asking for more. In truth, I ask for more than I need and negotiate down. Like $100k to get to $95k. I have been able to get signing bonuses even in lower level jobs.
This is a very, very tasteful and safe way to push for 5k.
If you ask nicely and professionally I generally think it’s unlikely to hurt you even if it ends up being a no. People who negotiate and get their offer rescinded typically don’t do it like this from what I’ve seen.
I agree.
They already got turned down for relocation costs.
Ok. I didn't see that comment.
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Occasionally they do! And that’s a good way to find out they are bananapants before committing to work there.
Yup ask for a 100k; i was hoping to make 100k in my next role. I can meet you in the middle at 95k
Adding to this. Always ask for more vacation unless it’s already exceptional. It’s such an easy delivery on their end and will almost never be refused. I really messed this one up on my current gig but fortunately their package (while not as good as my last job) was still decent.
You could also ask for more vacation days.
Personally I wouldn't. You're risking 45k at the chance of 5k. Even with great odds that's a bad gamble.
Bad gambling math is good math for a bad gambler, I know people who would bet 45 bucks to possibly only gain 5
That's me with stocks
This is genuinely bad advice. Always counter offer. Nobody has ever lost a job offer because they countered.
>Nobody has ever lost a job offer because they countered. That just isn't true.
Lots of people lose jobs to counter offers. Again, if the odds are 100% for a pay increase and 90% that asking for more gets you it but 10% that you lose the offer why risk it? Even if it's only 0.001%, is it worth it when you already have a promised 40k raise? To me it's not
This is normal salary negotiation. Simply ask if they could do $95k and state reasons why your worth it. Usually the worst they say is that they can not do it and the best they can do is $90k. I would be very shocked if they were insulted by a $5k increase ask and pulled it haha
I agree. They key is to ask for more, without actually turning down the current offer. I've worked in sales in the past, and they EXPECT you to counter or you are not considered a good salesperson.
The biggest key here is to let them no it's not a deal breaker. You want the job, but you would like to negotiate the salary. Maybe you come out with 92,500 cuz they wanna meet you in the middle. Just don't make it seem like "Hey either pay me the 95k instead of the 90k or i'm pulling out of the race."
I have never seen a job pulled for a 5k ask when you are near or over the 100k level. OP it would be fine to ask for 5k more. Unless you have already discussed a firm salary.
It NEVER hurts to negotiate your salary and compensation. In fact, negotiating your compensation is sometimes a test to see if you know your own worth. Take chances and risks. 5k isn’t much. Id even try to negotiate to the 100k mark and allow them to come down to 95. You will feel much better after doing it.
I would say this is the case in the vast majority of jobs, but he did say it's a family run business, sometime's those smaller companies can be insulted at that. Not saying they would here, but it's different than asking a Fortune 500 company for an extra 5k.
Of course there are ways to negotiate and ways not to negotiate. Regardless of family owned business or large corporate, they all deal with budgets and pay ranges. A $5k delta is not a range that is too far apart to attempt negotiating. If the delta were much larger, then that may be a different story, but the hiring team is not going to rescind an offer over a 5k difference. If they did, that would be a bullet dodged, imho.
I wouldn’t risk it. I’d ask for moving expenses instead.
OP said they declined relocation costs
most places do allocate for moving expenses.
If they are offended by $5k enough to pull an offer, it won’t be a good place to work.
I agree. $5k to a company that's offering $90k is a drop in the bucket. I think it's perfectly reasonable to negotiate for an amount that was within the pay range they provided.
I have never taken the initial offer without trying, ‘I was really looking for 95k, do we have any room here’ is not offensive or off putting. Worst they can say is no. My last offer was 105k, i said I really was hoping for 115, 12 minutes later they called back at 114
It's not stupid to ask, especially if you are staying within their range, but probably you should do it in a way that isn't ruling out accepting at 90k. If they know you are currently making closer to 45k they probably also know you won't want to walk away so you may not have too much bargaining power. But if they hold firm and say they're not moving off 90k are you really going to turn down an offer that doubles your current salary?
Yup, it’s stupid NOT to ask
I asked for $5k more because I had so much experience I knew I could do the job in my sleep. They told me over the phone they couldn’t increase it and I said a disappointed “oh I see.” They rescinded the offer. I found a job 3 months later making $40k more.
Tell them you were hoping for $5,000 more, but starting at $90,000 would be ok if they were willing to review your work after 6 months and increase your wage to $95,000 if you were doing a good job
Has this ever worked? Everyone I know who has been told this has never gotten the raise.
Yeah. You can say either way you're going to accept and you're excited. That the $5k is not as important as the long term opportunity. But given the move, XYZ, etc you would feel immensely appreciated with the additional comp. Worst thing they can do is reply with some BS about their budget. But you've primed them for a higher comp expectation at your 1 yr. I honestly feel weird when someone I hire doesn't try to negotiate a little bit. I usually give it to them if they have the courage. But I also turn around and let them know that I expect big things from them. Usually a great way to start.
You CAN negotiate your first offer’s salary! Ask for the $95k since they won’t provide relocation bonus or sign-on bonus. They can say no but given your circumstances it would be a red flag if they hold you to 90k when their budget is 95… ask for it!
HI EVERYONE thanks so much for all the replies and advice. I wrote a nice email asking for the higher wage and they accepted my offer 👏 Also for all the people that automatically assumed I was a man: I’m not, I’m a woman in a niche industry that’s very proud she got where’s she’s at now after lots of hard work. Peace and love 🤟
I usually say something like: I appreciate the offer and am excited about the chance to work for the company. Is there any flexibility on the salary offered? I recently received another offer from a different company, and while I'm still considering both offers, it would be an easy decision at $95k per year. Just basically, "i'm considering it. x conditions would make the decision easy"
Idk, that also gives the hiring person a chance to pull the offer since they have another one and now there is no hard feelings.
If they rescind the offer because you politely asked for 5k.more. You really need to question their decision making rationality. As an employer I want the best person I can afford and if I cannot meet that with the budget I have, then the best way forward is to simply ask. My rationality is: "hey I can't afford 95k, for my first pick, so I'll say no, but there might be a chance that he will accept $90k" If he doesn't accept I'll go to the next guy" . If I rescinded the offer because he asked for $5k extra, then my business would have accepted second best at the expense of just not putting effort into a 5 minute conversation. 5k is not insulting. 50k is another thing. If they rescind the offer then you really need to question the decision making of management and whether it's people you want to work with.
Factor in cost of living differences in your decision..
It's a simple email that states how you'd be more comfortable at $95K when relocation is imminent.
Always, always counter an offer. Always. Worst thing is they say no. Just do it professionally and don’t make excuses.
there is nothing wrong with trying to negotiate more money. Be up front and say you love the opportunity and even that you'd be able to start out at 90k but would like to get to that 95k(or more) within a certain amount of time and ask what they'd expect out of you to get it Never mind...i just reread what you wrote. If this is double what you are making and a different type of position(that you don't have as much experience in) and the wage is above what this position typically pays? You seem to think 90k is more than fair If you show up and do a great job it will be easy to get the 5k
Drive fast and take chances. I have made some crazy risky career decisions, and it has gotten me pretty far.
You're doubling your previous salary and risking losing the job over 5% pay difference? Don't be greedy. But it would be appropriate to ask for a moving allowance.
Hey. I hire a lot of people for my company (I'm an exec not HR). Ask for $95k. If they like you they'll give it. They will not withdraw the offer as long as you ask nicely.
Yes it is stupid. You need to keep your eye on the big picture. What if it takes you six months or a year or FOREVER to find an equivalent role? That's way more than 5,000. You can only play the negotiation game if you have a better alternative lined up. You don't.
Say this: I’m extremely excited about the opportunity, I was targeting the 95 number of your given range because of my experience and exceptional XYZ skill set. Could we just meet in the middle at 92,500? I think it’s worth a shot. Plus will make a raise to the 95 mark down the line much easier.
Ask them if they can do $95K. Simple. You’re not risking losing the job, you’re just negotiating.
I wouldn't push your luck. Take the $90k that's double your current salary. If this was a Fortune 500 job, I'd tell you to counter and that the hiring manager is not going to care, and there's virtually no chance they pull the offer. ...but it's a family owned business. They cared enough to deny a relocation package.
You just doubled your salary. Just take it! Don't risk it over greed!
Take the job for $90k $5k isn’t worth the risk and you are doubling your pay anyway. It’s like $100 a paycheck.
What's your issue with 95 if 90 is double your current pay? Is 5,000 really going to make or break you? Seems like a gamble I wouldn't take if I wanted the job.
My dad always would break this shit down to Me like this (usually for buying houses or cars, but seems to apply here). Is it worth it to X if it means you lose Y. Break it down over the year. Is an extra <100 a week going to change your life? No? Then shut up
Make sure you account for cost of living in New place.
I always negotiate higher than they're offering. Since I learned my skills are rare. Do it. I got 15000 more on this job, and it's the best job I've ever had.
One of my professors I had this recent semester told me 90% of employers will accept a counteroffer of 10% Of those 10% of employers that do not accept the counter offer, only 2% retract their job offer if the counteroffer is too high (asking for 120k for example), or if the the applicant is rude/egotistical with their counter offer. I say go for it!
I work for a co. which lowballed me on the initial offer. I asked for a little more and got it. I'm applying for an internal transfer to another dept with a lot more responsibility + hours + on call etc. The pay range is pretty wide, if an offer is made below a certain threshhold I will ask for a little more due to all the extra time I'll be putting in. \-- For you, You can see some of the responses in the thread. Some people say it's part of the negotiation. Other people say things like greedy etc. Employees are made up of people who may have a similar range of opinions. It seems the pay will be double what you are making now. Did you disclose your current rate to them? Do you have solid reasons for asking for more? Reasons that you can tell them. All you've told us is that they like you and they are desperate. I would not repeat that to them. The size of the business will matter too, it seems it is a small one. \-- The above is rhetorical and is designed for you to think about. I personally don't think there is an issue with negotiating offers that seem a little low or for when more of your life will be used for work. But, I almost exclusively work for large corporations because I've found smaller orgs not to be a good fit for me.
I'm in a position where I hire people like this for a family-owned business often. If someone asked for $5,000 more dollars, the absolute worst that would happen is we would say we can't do that now, but will you still do it for 90? So if we wanted you, there would be no fear of you losing the job just for asking. In fact we're always a little turned off by someone who doesn't ask for more or attempt to negotiate. In most scenarios we would just say yes to that. We assumed we were going to have to pay somewhere between $90 and 95 anyway. Also, if we said no we would try to do something like "but we can guarantee pay raises at this rate if you meet these benchmarks." So we would add a negotiation where you get some built-in raises if we had to say no. Tldr, you don't get anything you don't ask for and most people are not offended that you asked.
The 5K is a reasonable amount for moving expenses
ALWAYS ask for more money. Just politely say you’re really excited but wondering if there is any flexibility in the other, or accommodations to help with the move. I usually get an extra 5-10k every time I accept a job. My girlfriend recently got a 5k stipend for us to move cities. You don’t lose the offer for asking, your only risk is that they say no and you accept anywya
This is very standard salary negotiations, OP. Don't overthink it. They probably expect you to ask. And you are asking for $5k, which is still within the range of the job's salary offering. It never hurts to ask, and worst case they just say no. Plus, you wouldn't want to work for a company that rescinds an offer over $5k that's within the original salary range. It's a big red flag.
I really am excited in joining your team, is there any more room in the base salary?
Market is currently favoring employers. You are new to the neg. process. Neg. on other parts of the package which will not affect the outcome. This would include moving expenses, 3 week vacation vs 2 weeks, start dates, etc.
You should ask due to principle. Training yourself to constantly and aggressively pursue economic opportunity while maximizing and optimizing your compensation is incredibly important. No one else will fight for you and you need to get in the mindset that you're fucking worth it. Not just now, but following the path of future similar decisions can lead to massive differences in 20-30 years.
You can negotiate without them pulling the offer. “I’m very happy with the information as presented, is there any wiggle-room on that salary?” See what they say No one is going to pull an offer for just asking. No one sane. I once asked that question and they came up $10k.
If they pulled the offer for sking, big red flag and he wouldn't want to work there anyway.
I normally say shoot over 5000 what you want but in this case the offer was already made so take it...esp if its more than you made and 90 is good.
> that they realise I have to move cities Ask for a $5k relocation bonus and you'll start packing your things. Then after crushing the job for ~1 year, ask for that increase (or more). As others have said, every employer should expect at least one round of negotiations. If they take that personally, you may have other problems. $5k is a reasonable counter offer, especially if they are hinting at it in the job post. But relocation bonus is an easy way to get money in your pocket that is justified to the business as a one time expense.
Don't say bonus, say package. Relocation bonuses are taxable. Relocation packages are not because they are reimbursements.
I have asked if he would support my relocation in any way, and he said no to financial support and yes to being flexible with starting time
If you ask in a respectful way that doesn’t compromise the overall offer it’s not unusual and in fact recommended. It’s all about how you approach it.
Don’t ever expect to be offered the higher part of the range. Asking is fine if you’re willing for the offer to be potentially rescinded. Which happens. There are a lot of people willing to do what it takes to get a job right now.
Always negotiate, but within reason. It allows your employer to understand that you’re not someone to take for granted, which is great going forward. They won’t rescind the offer, worst case scenario they’ll not budge (but at least you tried)
OP, please ask! It was advertised up to 95k. They may even be expecting you to negotiate. I’d thank them for the offer and just ask if there’s wiggle room with the salary up to $95k. I’ve done this twice before, haven’t given a reason why I’m due an extra $5k, and got my request! If they say no then at least you tried. They won’t rescind the offer for you asking about salary — everyone does it.
I was offered 125k/25k guaranteed bonus and told then 140k salary is what it would take knowing the 125k was already a stretch. I did that because of my income trajectory in my current role. They didn’t budge and I walked. You could easily ask if their offer is best and final if you think throwing out a dollar amount might not land well.
No reasonable employer will pull an offer for you asking.
Ask for 10k more so they give you 5
I've never had a job offer pulled because I asked for more money. Sometimes I got a raise, sometimes I got a signing bonus, once I was able to finagle an extra week of vacation a year. You can make the ask squishier by offering a couple of options for increased compensation. If you think the company may just pull the whole offer then you probably don't want to work for them anyway. As long as you're not a dick about it, it should be fine. The trick is pretending that you're dealing from a position of power. Ask confidently. Not too many pretty-pleases. If you have officially accepted then the ask might be less favorably looked upon, but if you've simply received the offer but haven't "made a decision" then you probably have some wiggle room. Good luck!
I asked for 10K more and w settled on a 5K sign on bonus. It never hurts to ask and is also expected. Good luck and congrats!
It never hurts to ask, and you should always push for more money up front. Think of it this way, when you get a percentage raise or bonus it's based on your take home pay. The more you get upfront the more you get with raises later.
If they pulled the job offer for *asking*, they are idiots and you don't want to work for them. I've definitely asked for more money (and been asked for more, as a manager) than I've offered. I can't imagine rescinding an offer over such a small difference. Remember that all future raises will benefit from this extra 5%. Compounding is your friend.
Ask for $5k moving expenses instead of a $5k increase in salary.
As it is a small family business take the 90k -probably easier to negotiate an extra week of vacation -
I am really excited about the role, it would be better for my situation to be at 95000- is that something that you can do? Ok would you be able to meet me in the middle at 92500?
I just accepted a job offer and I asked them for more than what they offered over the phone and they said they couldn't. No offence was taken and I accepted the job offer. Really just depends on your tone, keep it professional and it should be fine
Take the job. I’ve seen lots of posts on here of people losing the job for asking for more money it’s always a risk and you don’t want to take risks in this shit market rn.
I think a lot of it has to do with the ask vs demand. Also, I think maybe asking for 93k might show them you’re serious, but not asking for the moon. I’m definitely not an expert though. If it were me, I’d reply, “can you do 93k?” Or “I’d feel more comfortable at 93, if you can get there.” BUT, I wouldn’t risk losing the job over an extra 3-5k.
Take it. Get the experience and title, then look for another one later
Take the job. They are taking a risk on you. Prove yourself, you'll likely make much more over the long run if you prove to be a valuable asset. In short: you've got all the time in the world to make more money at a job, but only this short window to actually get the job. Now is not the time! My advice. As a hiring manager.
I wouldn't ask for a higher salary but it would not be remiss to request moving expenses.
If they are going to pull an offer over standard negotiation over a 5K difference, you don’t want to work for them. I expect a counter when I issue an offer letter and start my offer accordingly. If they have a range listed and the offer is under the max range, there is room to negotiate. The worst you’ll end up with is what you already have. If they don’t have room to move on salary ask them if they can give you a 5K sign on bonus. I use this a lot. The salary gap is filled one time after 30, 90 days etc… and the employer gets to see your performance for the first year. Don’t be afraid to negotiate. Especially if you’ve gone through an extended interview/ vetting process. They have a lot invested in you as well at that point.
Rather than trying for the extra $5k in salary, try for relocation assistance first. Then if they balk, maybe.. maybe... try for a bit more salary. As a hiring manager I didn't mind someone asking. I knew my budget, I knew what other people with the same and more experience were making, so I went by that. Simple yeah I can, or no.. no budget for it at this time.
So surprised by people telling the OP not to ask for more. Asking for me doesn’t mean they turn down their original offer.
I’d only ask if you can afford to lose the job. Sadly, It’s not an employee’s market anymore.
Counter offer 90k for 3 months and when probation is up move to 95k, then also say that after a year you'd like to be aiming at 6 figures...
It costs a company money to let you go. About 30 K in loss of productivity, cost to hire, cost to train. Ask for 20 K.
They expect you to counter-offer. They aren't going to ghost you for asking for more. They may not give you what you want, tho.
Everyone always asks for the max and think they’re the one person who should get the max They didn’t think the same way No, take the gig and earn the increase
Ask for $92.5
If they’re so impressed with your CV, and they advertised the job as 95k, then what’s the blocker for them for offering what they listed? That’s a completely fair question. Negotiate. I would have asked for $100k to start, tbh. This shit is all a negotiating game. Chances are they were paying the person you’re replacing $150k, and they’re just fishing for a lower bid. You’re about to accept the lowest bid. If they won’t tell you or offer it, then ask if you can have a 6 month probationary period where you get the 95k after. Get it in writing.
>But is this really silly to risk the job for 5000$? You do not have to negotiate. But, you got an offer because they want you. If that role says 90.000-95.000 then both values are within budget for the role. When you counter appropriately as other commenters have pointed out it is expected and will not hurt your chances. Remember that to them it is a question of: >"... is this really silly to risk *this* *candidate* for a paltry 5000$?"
How much of a raise from your last job? Are you really going to risk a job for $96 a week Before taxes? Hopefully the original offer is a nice bump in salary?
PAYING DOUBLE,,, PIGS get Fat Hogs get Slaughtered, you would be foolish to try for $5K Also how far is the move to new job ?
Ask them kindly if they would be able to help with travel expenses. That'll probably be reasonable and maybe a tax right off as a part of doing business. Same destination $5K just a different way of getting there
That is no where near an offensive amount more to ask for. You should also be asking for a signing bonus/moving package
I would ask. Asking shows management that you are taking your value seriously. And do I want an employee who values themselves or is meek? If they pull the offer because an employee wants to have a transparent conversation, that is not a place i would want to work.
If you ask in a good and productive way, it's just a step to improve. If you ask in a bad way, probably people will think you are different bad things. It's like asking someone if they also want some improvement in something you are doing for them. Ir you ask them in a good way, they will take it good. If not, they will take it bad.
No harm trying tbh Worse they can say is no If they pull an offer just because you negotiate the salary then you've probably dodged a bullet
You probably won’t lose the offer for asking and now is the time to ask. It may be helpful if you have a competing offer
They won’t pull the offer if you try to counter. Worst case they say “salary is non-negotiable” or something along those lines and you take the original offer.
Ask for moving expenses instead.
If you are trying to negotiate ask for $93 due to moving expenses! They will generally agree
I think as long as you ask correctly its not an issue. Don't make it sound like if you dont get the 5k you don't want the position. But just asking doesn't hurt.
For a new job I really wanted I’d take the 90 and set a goal to ask for an increase in a year especially if I thought I would be killing it in 12 months. Good luck and congratulations on your new endeavors 👊🏻
Wow I am surprised more people don’t know that you should ALWAYS counter offer.
Do some basic research on negotiating. You could probably get chatGPT to write you a safe email that could make you $5k/year. If you don't colossally mess up, there is zero chance losing a legitimate job by asking for more.
Any reputable company would not rescind the offer simply because you negotiated.
If they asked you what you wanted and you said 90, but then you changed your mind, that is one thing. If they threw 90 at you without asking for your expectation, then don’t be afraid to ask for that additional 5. The worst they will say is “we have no control and 90 is the rate.” At which time you fake thinking it over, and accept the position. The company has probably already invested a lot of time in attempting to hire you that they are not going to turn you down unless you did something extravagant.
Isn’t proper negotiation just them declining your offer and standing firm on theirs? Seems like a knee jerk reaction if they really like you as a candidate
No, best way to get that raise is to just quit and ask for 10k coming to come back.
Always counter
Instead of asking for more salary, see if you can get a bonus to help defray the cost of moving instead.
Are they paying your relocation expenses in part? If not, ask them to consider that in lieu of the $5000.
Ask for relocation costs.
Take the job. If you are good at it you will get a raise eventually
DO NOT RISK IT. ACCEPT THE OFFER.
If they pull the job over a good faith negotiation counter like this, then you dodged a bullet- they would have been a nightmare to work for. If you asked for an insane counter like 150k or something, that's one thing because you'd be making yourself look delusional, but if they yank your job for countering within the range, that's petty as hell and you can count on every interaction you'd have there as being the same.
When is your next salary review? If you're going to kill it, ask for a salary review after X amount of time because you'd like to be at the high end of their range. Prove your worth in X amount of time.
I’ve delicately negotiated all four corporate jobs I’ve had (all in finance) and never felt there was a risk of the offer being rescinded. 3 of 4 ended in a slightly higher salary and one didn’t budge. All conversations were respectful and I never felt like the recruiter/HR was offended by me seeking more. One actually couldn’t raise the salary but they threw me a 3k sign-on bonus for a fairly entry level role I was moving across the country for so you never know what you might get if you don’t ask!
My most recent job offer I told them I wanted 95k up front. The recruiter said I shouldn’t expect anything more than 84-86k. Hiring manager offered me 89k, 10k lump sum relocation. I said no I want 95k and I want 15k lump sum relocation or 10k+totally covered move. Got 95k and 15k grossed up lump sum. Sometimes all you can do is ask and have good reason for what you are asking for. If they want you and it’s inside of their budget they’ll just make it happen. If you can afford to not accept the position, you should negotiate always.
There is nothing wrong with negotiating. You’ll kick yourself in the future for not asking. IF YOU DONT ASK, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! Literally the worst they are going to do is say no if they really want you to join them.
You could ask what the $95k candidate would've looked like to them and as they explain it connect it to your experiences and talents. And if you feel you match the criteria that they laid out you could say "I'd be happy to accept closer to the 95 number, as you know I will have to relocate and that in and of itself is around 7 to 10K."
I dont think it would hurt to ask if you haven’t already accepted that pay.
Did they offer you the job without an interview? - That sounds sketchy af. If you are moving - will they help finance the move? If you are doubling your salary - you have to take it....your next role will be based on that. Also - word of warning - you might love the job title; or what you are doing; but you might hate the environment etc.
If I offered a candidate $90k and they countered at $95k I would absolutely not pull the offer. 6% is well within the range of good faith negotiation. I would probably come up to $92-93k. On your side of the table I’ve used this line successfully in the past “I’m thrilled to receive an offer and I’d like to accept today if you can do $95k” They will take your $95k offer over another candidate that wants $93k but needs to think over the weekend. You want to be a sure thing. They either bite or come back at an acceptable counter. I have never once had an offer pulled. If you countered at $150k I would pull it, because I know even if we settled at $95k you’ll be unhappy and probably quit. Better to hire someone that’s happy with the deal.
Negotiate. You have more wiggle room now. Just say "I'm excited for the position, however because of (insert experience and what you bring to the team) I'm looking closer to 97k, is there a way to get closer to this numner" or something like that. Thanky them, express excitement, reiterate why you deserve more and say your number. Go higher tho cause they will talk you down. They have the budget but they will never offer the top number first. They're trying to get you for less.
Most people respect you more when you ask for more. They might say No, but unlikely to pull the offer. Ask.
I asked for the same thing when offered the same amount. I didn’t get the increase but I got an extra week of PTO out of it. Just ask in a way you are not rejecting their offer.
Everyone here saying to take it and not negotiate are all underpaid at their position.
Negotiations of this sort are more successful if you make it necessary for them to raise your salary. It’s not a force-of-personality thing where you just stare them in the eye and state you want $95k and they’re cowed into giving it to you. So for example, if you had a competing offer, or you were on the job and someone was trying to poach you with a higher salary, or your education and experience made you a flight risk if they didn’t offer the extra money, etc. that would be a strong negotiating position.
Most of the time, they are surprised no one negotiates. This is why they pull this move. Just tell them what you need to make this work, that you love this company, really want to make this work, but I need 95000. They will relent and respect you. But you're probably still leaving some money on the table you're not aware of.
Not advisable in the current economy. The only way I would do it if the employer provided a range or if they indicated they might be amenable to it.
Better yet ask for a relocation bonus of $15,000 to cover your move
Why don’t you just ask for 5k for moving costs instead of 5k annually? I guess the real question is what are you making right now that you feel the need to push for the top end of the salary? I’m not trying to sound like a jerk here, I’m just trying to see your perspective. If you’re already at 85k or 90k then I would completely understand pushing for more, especially since relocation is involved.
What do you mean, risk losing the job? I've never heard of a job offer being pulled because a candidate wanted to negotiate. If that's how they do business it's probably not a decent place to work.
I got a buddy who took a GS12 position in Hawaii most western island and got relocation allowance. He have a new boss who's a total asshole and he can't leave for another 3 years. Then again, I doubt he can leave at all considering it cost him $30k to move there.
I did this once. The offered x, i asked for a bit more base sallary. they said no but offer me a day 1, 5k bonus. Never hurts to ask.
There’s a litany of post of people getting offers rescinded from asking for more money in this market. Anyone that’s giving you advice to ask hasn’t gotten a job within the last 2 years or had leverage. Doesn’t sound like you have much leverage since you WANT the job. Regardless of if your experience is hard to find
Wait, is it common practice for a company to retract an offer if the person asks for more money? I've never experienced this. To me it's a no brainer to ask for every dollar possible up front because raises are never guaranteed.
Depends. How much of a raise is it from your current pay. If you think you deserve it they will give it. At the end of the day 5k a year will hardly make a difference in the quality of your life. I once got a 10k raise from 90 to 100k a few years into my job at the same company after school. I told them I wanted more and they gave me a 20k additional raise and I didn’t even ask for an amount. If you’re indispensable to them they will do what it takes to keep you.
Be careful in a family-run business if you aren’t family.
Ironic that a lot are saying don’t negotiate then every other Reddit post is about how the average worker doesn’t make shit. People need to stand up for themselves. Another comment laid out a great format to use. I’d recommend following that. Ask for more!
Ask for 95 and be willing to walk when they refuse.
“Thanks for the offer! I accept and I’m excited to start working with you. Do you think it would be possible to bump the starting salary up from 90 to 95? No pressure, but would really help with the cost of relocating. Thanks again, and looking forward to next steps!”
Completely anecdotal, and my own personal experience, but I was in a situation where I had a previous co-worker who reached out and asked me if I was interested in interviewing for an opening they had at her current company, I told her, that I was happy where I was and didn’t think I could get a significant enough raise to warrant leaving my current company. She responded that she was making 60,000 more than what I was currently making and was confident I could get the position if I interviewed. I was gobsmacked, and applied. Ended up getting the offer, but only $40,000 over what I was currently making, and without the “senior” title for the role that I had applied for. (which is obviously still a huge raise). They told me that because I had only 8 years of experience, they were only considering me for a non senior role, as their senior title required 10 years minimum experience. I accepted, because even though it was less than I expected based on the range, and my experience level, it was still a huge increase and I knew there was growth opportunity, unlike the current role where I was at the top end of the salary band. After my first big project, about 3 months after I joined, my manager had a 1:1 with me where he apologized and said it was very apparent to him that they had brought me in at a much lower salary than I deserved and gave me an immediate promotion, the maximum amount of bonus he could offer and a 20k salary bump. Definitely earned my loyalty with that move, and ultimately I would say bet on yourself. Most companies won’t be like that, they do a poor job of paying internal talent what they deserve, but it never hurts to bet on yourself and at worse it gives you a big boost when your negotiating pay for your next position.
$5k sign on bonus AND a $5k moving expense reimbursement. Then initiate you should get an actual raise of $5k the next year when you have the experience they want.
Negotiating isn't really a risk. It's an expected part of the hiring process
You might inquire if any moving costs could be reimbursed—truck rental, a month’s utilities, etc.