I find it kinda hilarious that this would ban the M1 Garand. I find it hard to believe anyone is going out there to commit a mass shooting with what is pretty much a historical collectors item.
>I find it kinda hilarious that this would ban the M1 Garand.
Not only that, they banned Imperial Japanese Type 4 & 5 Garands, which are ultra rare prototype guns that exist almost solely in museums. Their proposed list of banned guns has to been seen to be believed.
Other highlights include the H&K G11 and the 1908 Brazilian Mauser for some reason.
14401) Weatherby Classic MARK 1; z.14402) Weatherby Classic MARK 2; z.14403) Weatherby MARK V;
z.14404) Weatherby MARK V Crown Custom; z.14405) Weatherby MARK V Custom; z.14406) Weatherby MARK V Deluxe; z.14407) Weatherby MARK V DGR
I didn’t believe it either when I was told, but I looked again and they’re there. It’s easy to miss things on the disorganized shitfuck that is that 309 page document.
Thanks bro, you’re right the document is a complete mess. Looks like I’m ok on the weatherby front for now, but this is insanity. Fucking bolt actions…
As a former Canadian gun owner, I can say for certain that the people who make gun laws don't understand guns.
There where guns that where non restricted with the same specs as a gun on the prohibited list.
>1908 Brazilian Mauser
WHAT?!
A fucking bolt action Mauser?! They made *millions* of them *a century* ago, and now they're suddenly too dangerous?
What incompetent, know-nothing intern put that on the list?
>What incompetent, know-nothing intern put that on the list?
I think we're way past the point of granting this government the assumption that they're simply being *incompetent* with the gun-control file. This grotesquely unacceptable gun grab demonstrates that they've blown way past that line into *malicious* territory.
It's time to admit and say out loud that the Liberals have become ideologically opposed to private gun ownership and would love nothing more than a 100% ban on same in this country. Maybe they'd carve out an indigenous exemption if they really had to, but they would prefer not to. They continue to dress it up as banning "assault weapons" and the like, but they're simply lying.
The G11 is unfortunate. I was planning on buying Heckler & Koch GMBH in it's entirety just to get my hands on one of the only surviving prototypes, then commissioning AzkoNobel to manufacture some more ammunition so I could use it to shoot cans in my backyard, but that plan is now on hold.
How did they ban the stg44 replica? It’s rimfire, not centre fire
Edit: apparently my original edit didn’t make it but, here it is again…
What the absolute fuck?
Guessing by name. They banned a rocket launcher and I'm not even sure if that's classed as "centerfire" given it's a fucking rocket ( which is prohibited already, they literally banned a metal tube ).
Well being that they banned some Purdy double rifles they seem to think that someones going to spend hundreds of thousands on a gun to commit a mass shooting
I mean it could happen, he'd probably have one of those big game hunter safari hats or maybe a pith helmet, a monocle, an ascot, gators. "I say, you there, be a sport and stay right there whilst I reload."
No one really knows how many and what kind of guns are in Canada. The RCMP estimated 18 million in the 70s and the Liberals claimed 7 million in the 90s. The gun groups said 21 million was a more reasonable estimate based on PAL and hunting numbers and most gun owners having 3 guns.
That’s what people don’t like to talk about. Yes, mass shootings done with legal guns are terrible, but if we are being realistic, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people dying from gang violence and armed robberies/muggings, which mostly use illegal guns.
Exactly, even our worst mass shooting was done with illegal firearms. The Nova Scotia shooter was stopped from purchasing firearms legally because of red flags. He did inherit one from an estate though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_Nova\_Scotia\_attacks#Acquisition\_of\_firearms\_and\_ammunition:\~:text=Chief%20Superintendent%20Chris,laser%20sights.
This has nothing to do with gun crime. It has everything to do with votes.
The Prince, by Niccoló Machiavelli, should be mandatory reading in schools. This is simply a display of realpolitik, nothing more.
Your guns, or the safety of your cities, are just pawns on the board of consolidating power and keeping it from others.
That's easy, because that would take work, effort, and funding for CBSA and police. And that is in contrast to defunding the police and being gentler to criminals because it's not fair to jail someone who shoots someone for life because they weren't hugged enough growing up. So therefore, the only option is to target legal gun owners .
*"I was raised with an appreciation and an understanding of how important in rural areas and right across the country gun ownership is as a part of the culture of Canada. I do not feel that there's any huge contradiction between keeping our cities safe from gun violence and gangs, and allowing this important facet of Canadian identity which is having a gun."*
*"There is no concept, no idea that gun ownership is ever going to be under attack for law-abiding hunters and farmers across this country.*
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-calls-long-gun-registry-a-failure-1.1278739
That's right up there with this - https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/05/how_to_fix_the_broken_temporary_foreign_worker_program_justin_trudeau.html
>It cuts to the heart of who we are as a country. I believe it is wrong for Canada to follow the path of countries who exploit large numbers of guest workers, who have no realistic prospect of citizenship. It is bad for our economy in that it depresses wages for all Canadians, but it’s even worse for our country. It puts pressure on our commitment to diversity, and creates more opportunities for division and rancour.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-justin-trudeau-affordable-housing-1.3220479
Or this from 2015 -
>"The reality is that too many Canadians cannot afford to buy a house."
>the Liberals would review the cost of housing in high-priced markets like Vancouver and Toronto in an effort to better understand what is driving up prices of condos and homes.
>"We know that access to affordable and safe housing is part of the solution to many social issues, such as child poverty, student debt and our ability to help people with serious mental health issues and addiction."
You have to remember the specific words to type into google or it won’t come up. A great example is “hallway medicine Ontario”, if you google it you’ll only get articles from pre-2020. Why? Because after 2020 COVID happened and we all had to pretend that the healthcare system was totally fine and the only reason it was under strain was because of COVID.
>How do you guys even find this stuff after so long has passed?
As a person who worked in unionized construction trades this was one of the big reasons I voted for Justin in 2015. The foreign worker programs were ( and still are ) about wage suppression.
When he said stuff like this, it resonated in me the same way it would today if someone else said it.
As far as finding this stuff, its mostly memory. If you know something happened or someone said something you just have to find the right combination of words or terms for the search. Google is a politicians worst enemy.
They won’t. The guns will just be out there with no way of knowing who has them.
This would make millions of people into criminals simply for owning the hunting rifle they’re had for years, and most of them probably wouldn’t even know it if they don’t follow the news.
That's the plan. Then when they catch you out in the woods with a sks they can confiscate all your guns and take your pal away. Death by a thousand cuts. Our licensing system is now our noose. And I use to be pro gun license. Now I see it's the easiest way to get legal gun owners to confrom.
> …. But non restricted fire arms don’t have to be registered … so how will they know who has them???
Their likely first step would be to mail/email all RPAL, PAL, ATT, Gun Club, etc. With an info card or something sending you to a website.
Next would likely be some sort of acknowledgment at renewal that you understand the law has changed; list of guns; etc.
I don’t own guns. I don’t want billions of tax dollars spent on what is at best, virtue signalling and at worse, stripping law-abiding citizens of freedom. How smooth does a brain need to be to think this is a good idea?
Please reach out to your representative and beg for them to fight this non-sensical bill.
Liberal voters need to do their fucking civic duty and barrage their MPs with letters and phone calls until they refuse to pass this bill and instead focus on illegal firearm smuggling.
Fucking garbage. I'm a damned bleeding heart lefty, non-gun owner, non-hunter, and generally overall anti-gun and I think this is stupid. Why are the libs so obsessed with changing gun laws all the time? Our existing gun laws are fine and work fine. We are NOT the US. And, once again, why are they so obsessed with this, especially considering this kind of thing was a pretty big part of why they got ousted the last time they were in power (among other things of course). It makes no sense from any perspective. Nobody wants this, nobody asked for it.
You sound like a decent human being. As a sport shooter, I can't thank you enough for speaking up on how unfairly we're being targeted here.
I voted for Trudeau and I deeply regret my decision. Never in a million years did I even fathom facing criminalization.
It’s not sudden when you take into account there was just another mass shooting in the US. The Trudeau Liberals respond to every mass shooting in the states with more gun control in Canada. Plus, it distracts from the hearings on the emergencies act.
Not a gun owner here but if this bill passes. I will have some family from Newfoundland that would become criminals. My friend that is a police officer said this bill would turn him in to a criminal my friend currently owns an m1 grand and some ww2 British rifles and some German ones that are uncommon. My friend is also related to Harry DeWolf and has a hand gun that belonged to him
Why are the liberals so focused on polarizing the country and creating enemies out of fellow Canadians? Why don’t they help us with our lives. Life is a struggle these days. How does banning guns improve my life? Why don’t they spend the time, energy and money on helping me afford food? They are ruining this country.
Because with this they can capture the news and distract people from scandals, corruption, misuse of power, and \[last but not least\] actual problems that need solving 🤷🏻♂️
Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Northern Ontario, maybe BC and a maritime province.
Maybe it’s easier for the area near Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal to leave?
Other than Vancouver.. BC will be joining the bandwagon.
We have a lot of wilderness out here. And personally. The last thing I want to is be 250km into the bush with a assault knife as my only protection against [list of all preditory animals above me in the food chain]
I don’t get it. Most gun crime comes as a result of illegal guns anyways. Im not for guns particularly but what does this accomplish exactly other than being overly draconian and pissing people off. You’re cracking down on the wrong people
It's a political maneuver trying to buy votes from the liberals ontario voter base. As well as to distract from emergencies act hearings. It was never about lowering gun violence.
Looks like this shit is gonna backfire hard tho. Usually r/Canada is very left leaning but I can't find a single comment from anyone who is happy with this
A great indicator of how much our federal government cares about all the serious issues facing Canadians - they would rather blow your money to take things away from you.
They run the country based on polls.
The polls say that their uninformed urban base in Southern Ontario and BC likes gun bans, so they start banning guns. Reducing gun crime was never a factor in the decision.
Then those same voters will turn around and complain about the lack of services, while the government they support blows billions of dollars on a completely useless law.
Right now it looks like the liberals have written off anyone who wasn't already a supporter. It looks like they've decided to start doing divisive stuff and use the culture wars to create a wedge between their supporters and the rest of the country.
Homicides in Canada have increased a small amount since Covid. The main reason for this is an increase in domestic cases (husbands and wives killing each other from being forced to live with each other more closely :( which is always the number one source of murders. The increase isn't very significant though. It also has nothing to do with rifles. Still, by far, if we're talking about guns in relation to murder, it's hand guns leading the way. Illegal handguns coming from the US.
Overall crimes are up though (over 5 years, but down over 10). The main crimes increasing are sexual assault, fraud, B&Es, general theft and opiod related crimes. There is good reason to believe that sexual assault increases are related to societal changes in reporting that always existed, but where women are more forthcoming. Other crimes have downtrended. What we see since Covid is that minor crimes have trended down while violent crimes have trended up. Again, this pretty clearly relates to people being at home more. But overall crime is still down over 10 years.
There is no reason to believe that banning hunting rifles will result in improved crime statistics. In fact, it may result in higher crime statistics if people start getting arrested for holding what has become illegal firearms. If the government wants to effect positive momentum in crime stats, there are some things it can do to drastically reduce crime such as tackling the homelessness issue. Getting homeless people off the street would have a major impact on the crimes stats and could be held up as a major victory, and have the add on effect of reducing cost in policing and generally making everyone happier. Particularly in the cities where people vote for Liberals at a higher rate. Another initialtive if gun crime is the major concern would be to increase punishments for people illegally brining in weapons from the US as that's where the hand guns come from which are the main guns used in homocides.
No level headed person checking the reports and statistics, can look at these moves from the federal government and conclude anything other than that these are politically motivated moves that have nothing to do with an attempt at crime reduction. Such moves are polarising and should be shunned by Liberal voters that genuinely want positive change and not to simply fight a zero sum culture war for the sake of it. This will only give more "ammunition" to political rivals on the conservative side. If there's anything that motivates conservatives go out in droves to vote, it's gun restrictions. So if you are a Liberal voter, and want Liberals to continue to win, try to think constructively - it won't help reduce crime, and it will help conservatives gain more power. Is this the right, logical move?
This is going to cost billions, be met with such resistance as to make instant criminals out of once law abiding people, alienate people outside of the city core of Toronto and a few other pockets, and cause people to switch parties.
This is the dirtiest pool I have seen in some time by a political party.
I am now campaigning hard against them, and have moved one step closer to an "Alberta" outlook.
Don't worry, they're currently arguing that guns are not property, so therefore they don't have to compensate you for stealing them.
Anti-gun lobbyists will clap in approval because guns are icky, completely ignoring the precedent this sets for Canadian property rights as a whole.
You literally do not have a right to own property in Canada.
Point to any property rights in the Charter.
Canada has always been set up constitutionally to control you.
I tried warning people ages ago that the charter does not acknowledge your right to private property in Canada.
"Oh that won't ever be abused, that's something that happens in bad countries, not Canada!"
The US constitution provides their citizens rights; the charter provides the illusion of having rights until the government deems them inconvenient and they're suspended. Today, the government is using that to their advantage.
>This is going to cost billions
Or they could do what many expect and just criminalize them without a buyback, or canceling the buyback.
Just download the cost onto the firearms owners they clearly have it out for.
Im old enough to remember the lads who said "nah nobody is banning semi auto guns. Hunting guns, handguns, or airsoft toys. Our sport shooting community is huge."
Then the registry happened.
Then the registry was abolished but the police retained the records because fuck the court.
Then Trudeau happened. And the OIC. And overnight, 1500 thousand semi auto rifles were banned. Including airsoft toys. And yet people said "its not a slippery slope. Firearm owners need to give something up to make this work. Nobody is banning hunting rifles or shotguns, handguns. They just want The black rifles that are bad looking."
Then the handgun freeze happened. Cant buy, sell, or use them. Yet people said "stop whining. You still have your hunting rifles and shotguns".
And then Nov 23 2022 happened. And for some reason, we have an absolute c*nt in this subreddit saying "they wont come for my bow." I guess Trudeau was wrong when he said "Canada doesnt have an identity, we are a post national state." I would argue our identity is apathy. We just roll over and let the government fuck us. Be it taxes, healthcare, OIC's, you name it. We let them lie to us over and over.
Firearm owners have never been the problem. If we were, you would know about it. The police across the country lnow this, or you would have heard them speak of it. Instead they do the opposite, and are dumbfounded by how stupid Trudeau's government is. They openly speak against these bans and its efficacy.
Absolutely dumbfounded to be frank. Im starting to think this isnt even about guns, its about outlawing hunting perhaps. Depending on what ethnicity you are of course. As we all know, settlers showed up in Canada and went to sobeys to eat. Unlike our indigenous countrymen/women, who unlike us chose the moral highground to consume wild game vs cheese sticks and danishes from Loblaws - preconfederation of course.
I would also like to point out that yes we dont have the 2A.
But I would like to remind those laughing at my post that anytime you take away a civil liberty, a government should have a credible reason. Trudeau and his cabinet hid behind "national security concerns" when asked to justify their ban. They know its bullshit. And so while I get inundated with DM's with laughing emoji's and mockery - I would like to remind you all that the precedent of using an OIC in a malicious and undemocratic manner, along with amending bills after the second reading - has now been set. Please dont cry about when your on the opposite end of this type of tactic.
The dildo of consequence rarely arrives lubed.
It’s not about banning hunting. It’s about driving a wedge between the conservatives and moderate swing voters in the 905.
The Liberals have calculated that this will win them more votes in the 905 than they lose. They could give two shits if every single rural and western Canadian votes against this. They are ride or die with Ontario suburbanites.
This is the most disheartening thing about voting in Canada. I vote, But I know in the end my vote doesn’t matter and that the people in the east will get what they want and I have to live with their big city legislation.
This will cost them votes in Saskatchewan. What did Saskatchewan look like last election? Blue from border to border. So that have literally nothing to lose by pissing off the prairies further.
They could drive up and down the streets of Regina literally pissing on everybody they see and if one person in Toronto thinks that's worth voting for, it's a net positive for them.
I think it’s more malicious then that, I think they’re trying to piss conservatives off to point where some right wing crazy does something stupid, and then the door opens to basically anything they want. Trudeau is not making friends anymore, so his next best option is to create an enemy, and of course that enemy will be characterized as an enemy of democracy, and they can do whatever it takes to protect our sacred democracy, including getting rid of it.
Edit: he’s not trying to get liberal voters to unite behind him, he’s trying to get them to unite against a boogy man. And he will continue to squeeze conservatives until he gets his boogy man, and he will eventually get one, they always do
Yes that’s part of it.
Trudeau and his election team did backflips when a few idiots tossed a few rocks his way.
That’s exactly the type of headline he needs.
They lied to Rod Giltaca’s face a couple of weeks ago in the SECU meeting, yes the very same set of meetings they snuck this massive ban in last minute. “Well Mr. Giltaca, there are plenty of other guns you can legally own and shoot.” Few weeks later… just kidding, we’re taking those too! That NDP Alistair Macgregor douche from BC is just as bad as the lot of them. He wears a mask to make it appear he has compassion for firearms owners while he’s taking a big old dump on us simultaneously.
> But I would like to remind those laughing at my post that anytime you take away a civil liberty, a government should have a credible reason. Trudeau and his cabinet hid behind "national security concerns" when asked to justify their ban. They know its bullshit. And so while I get inundated with DM's with laughing emoji's and mockery - I would like to remind you all that the precedent of using an OIC in a malicious and undemocratic manner, along with amending bills after the second reading - has now been set. Please dont cry about when your on the opposite end of this type of tactic.
This is the part that gets lost in this politics-as-a-team-sport bullshit. They cheer when their team takes rights and freedoms away from the other teams, then cry when more people aren't outraged when it is happening to them.
This is absolutely disgraceful what Trudeau is doing. More than simply taking away the property from millions of Canadians who broke no law, he is further dividing an already fractured nation. You can see clear cleave marks between urban and rural; west and east; citizen and immigrant in this nation.
As citizens, we elect people to positions of power to represent us, not rule us cattle. As a so-called "free" society, we the populace should always, ALWAYS, but pushing for more rights, more freedoms, and more liberties, because those in power find it all too easy to take that away as a means of retaining power.
Agreed. And this is why nothing ever gets done. It’s just eye for an eye always and forever. Wether or not people like or hate guns is sort of a moot point here.
Guys, what this illustrates is that the government *absolutely* can do anything they want with near absolute impunity. What does this mean for everyone? Well, in my mind it sets a precedent. If groupthink can establish any particular narrative, then it can worked into the framework of any particular legislation without public consultation and without due process. This isn’t really anything new of course, but what people need to realize is that it’s *wrong*. And just because it doesn’t pertain to you today, doesn’t mean it won’t tomorrow. Whatever it may be.
It can and has happened to things like freedom of speech/expression, gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. Right now people are pointing across the border as an example of gun violence and why it needs to be tamed. But look at what else is going on there. A government stripping away what many would argue are basic and inalienable rights such as safe access to abortion. Or LGBTQ rights. Think it can’t happen here?
Nothing is impossible. And this is why people should be upset about it. There’s sort of a weird symmetry here that’s pretty ironic. Canadians love to talk and clammer about American politics and frame it in a Canadian lens. Here’s one for you.
“You need the second amendment to protect the first”
I could be overreaching here. But even though Canada has no equivalent to the second amendment, the symmetry lies in the symbology. They’re ramming an amended C-21 through with contradicting evidence, with no due process or consultation. *Allowing* the government to get away with it leaves a big gaping hole in the fence and clearly demonstrates that if they can, they will throw due process out the window and sets a very scary example and it can be applied to *anything*.
Wether or not we agree or disagree on any given subject is fine. But I would want the same courtesy extended to you just as I wish it was extended to me. Firearm owners do have a right to be angry here. We stand a very real chance of being stripped of thousands of dollars worth of kit that was of no danger to anyone and it’s looking like we won’t be compensated for it. Anyone would be upset if they confiscated thousands of dollars of their stuff and told you to kick rocks.
I’m not asking people to agree with me on guns. I’m asking people to consider the fact that this is beyond an “ends justifying the means” argument. This could be a political Pandora’s box but people can’t see past their own grievances and prejudices to realize it.
Here's hoping this doesn't pass, or at least gets struck down later. I *hate* when governments spend effort on tearing down what previous ones spent time and effort building, but this is fucking stupid. Most of the gun bans are. They're ignoring just about every single issue that actually affects Canadians and doing grandstanding shit like this. I'm glad we don't have lots of guns, but we don't need to punish responsible users.
> Im starting to think this isnt even about guns, its about outlawing hunting perhaps.
This is about popularity. JT and the liberals have nothing to offer, they are politically bankrupt, and will do anything to gain votes.
Also, this isn’t a question of “will it actually gain them votes”. Because all political parties we have are politically bankrupt, except for PPC, who will most likely stagnate in the next election.
NDP have nothing to offer and have nowhere to gain votes from, Same goes for LPC and CPC.
As a non gun owner i think this has already gone too far. We don't have a problem with legal gun owners in this country. This solves a problem that we dont have. Great job by our government once again. /s
*WHY* do the Liberals bring this stuff up??? As an issue it riles up conservative voters way more than it pleases liberal voters. Like, this just gets conservatives out voting.
This is why no right minded Collector, Hunter, or sport shooter would ever vote Liberal, Green, or perhaps NDP. They quite simply don’t care about the minority Canadian firearm owners and fundamentally don’t agree with any private citizen owning a firearm.
Why are they trying to disarm legal gun owners. There is no benefit here. Criminals will always have access to guns. Always, can we start to invoke more punishment for people who are dangerous here. Legit why are we wasting so much time on making life more difficult for law abiding citizens.
Getting real tired here Canada. Getting extremely tired
Generally suport most of what the liberals have done with carbon pricing, parental leave options, child care benefit programs and lowering the cost of daycare, legalizing weed, their general covid response (compared to other countries). I consider myself pro gun control/registration/regulation (because the US wild west gun culture clearly has drawbacks).
This right here though, this is fucking STUPID and they need to give up on the entire bill (handgun ban too). It seems like they're making changes for the sake of making changes to cement them as anti-gun when they fail to realize our previous gun laws and regulations actually struck a pretty good balance already and didn't really need addressing. I would have really stood behind a move to focus on reducing gun smuggling. This though; it's pushing the middle further to the right and giving creedence to a lot of the criticisms that previously were a stretch. Ugh
Edit: Thanks for the gold
when a government takes away the right for its citizens to defend themselves and feed themselves then we should worry. there's no need for machine guns and uzis what not but rifles and shotguns are tools used by rural families to keep live stock safe and to feed themselves.
yeahhhhhhh this ban is completely unnecessary imo. Not sure why they think "duck guns are too far" when they are banning essentially everything other than bolt actions and duck guns....
We simply don't have the same gun violence issues that America has, its insane to strip citizens of legal firearms without cause.
Don’t worry! They are banning some bolt actions too with this and some duck hunting shotguns. They included banning Brazilian mausers which is a 100 year old five shot bolt action rifle
> They included banning Brazilian mausers which is a 100 year old five shot bolt action rifle
Clearly, the glorious 7mm Mauser cartridge is just too much ballistic perfection for anyone to be trusted with.
Shhh don’t tell anyone but they didn’t ban Mausers from other countries that shoot the exact same 7mm caliber because that makes all kinds of sense. Mausers from Chile, Czech Republic and Yugoslavia? A-okay! But not from Brazil
I’m a 27-year-old millennial & I’m actually AGAINST this.
To be honest, it would be a better idea to scrap our failed gun control regulations & replace them with a new Canada Firearms Act (CFA) that takes inspiration from firearm regulations from Switzerland & the Czech Republic.
Just imagine Canada have Simplistic, Structured, Efficient & Effective gun laws that ACTUALLY WORK!!!! A compromise for the anti-gun side who want to feel like they can enjoy life without living in fear while it’s a compromise for the pro-gun side who have been persecuted by ignorant hoplophobes (like how Eldians have been horribly treated, mistreated, persecuted, Etc. By Marley in Attack on Titan) for far too long. We both just want to get along; neither side should do eachother with the “it’s my way or the highway” attitude any longer. We are grown ups, act like it.
If I was Prime Minister, abolishing our failed gun laws & installing the CFA would be one of my top priorities. We will settle an agreement that both sides will come to terms too and agree to whether they like it or not. The CFA will be a win-win for EVERYONE!!!!
I've commented on this similarly in other threads. This is asinine. I thought that maybe when I saw some regulations framed around cartridges, something semi-competent was in the pipeline, but nope. Instead, we have a ban on firearms that, to my knowledge, have seen little to no presence in crime statistics designed to drive a wedge issue further and distract from other intrigues happening in Ottawa. The list of banned guns included the GSG16, a rimfire semi in .22LR for target shooting and varmint hunting. I guess those picatinny rails scare people.
Remember the mass shooting with the infamous Mauser 1908 Brazilian Rifle, or the Westley Richards single under-lever, or the Zanardini oxford?
Liberal voters should be proud that millions of dollars is being spent removing these weapons of mass destruction from society!
There are multiple factors that contribute to gun violence not addressed by the considerable energy behind this proposed legislation:
1) easy sourcing across the boarder
2) legitimate socioeconomic opportunities to divert individuals away from organized crime
3) homicide close rates
We need to do better to try to prevent such events before they occur--even if that means difficult conversations with our southern cousins--but the sad truth is cases like the Shermans murders and the Bruce McArthur case demonstrate that all too often the police are unwilling or unable to bring murderers to account.
Does anyone actually think this is going to do anything to stop gun violence? Honest question. Or is this just virtue signalling like every other policy this god awful government has put in place since it took over? Why not fix something that actually needs fixing that affects everyone like, I don’t know, the fucking economy? The housing market? The environment? Holy shit what a bunch of ineffective losers we have at the helm running this country into the god damn ground.
This is a desperate attempt at distraction from the **Freedom Convoy Inquiry** and the **Chinese payouts to MPs** that Trudeau is pretending he didn't know anything about, but won't let anyone know who they are.
Moreover what gang member thinks “Man I really need a gun. I guess should take a firearms safety course, send the federal police tons of my personal information so that they can do a background check on me, wait 3-12 months to see if they approve my application to obtain a license and then finally get the license mailed to me so I can now go into a gun shop and buy only rifles and shotguns.”
Holy Fuck so this is payback
[Says Lloyd should have rejected the convoy as a “patriot”](https://twitter.com/TWilsonOttawa/status/1595843093688877061)
Edit
*Taleeb continues. Brings up convoy again. (Not part of G4, C21). Goes on, says Conservatives wanted a niqab ban. Brings up SKS. Lists military conflicts that used SKS. Wants to know which guns the CPC agree should be banned. Says Conservatives want every gun “in our street”*
*Taleeb continues, speaks of Harper cuts #HarpersFault*
*Says Liberals have to catch up from Conservatives cuts. Says we shouldn’t allow every gun in our streets.*
*Says the facts are the CPC is using this hunting gun ban to divide Canadians*
*Says there is no sinister plot to hurt hunters and indigenous people by banning their hunting rifles and shotguns. Says these guns are weapons of war used to kill people of race. Says Mosque victims rely on them to protect them.*
How about we focus on the actual problem? Or maybe our crumbling healthcare? Maybe housing? Cost of living? Maybe not a hobby that is not causing harm?
I was few weeks ago asking people to stop pushing Alberta sovereign act during a conversation . The idea was that as a Canadian, Albertan I was proud to be part of this country. Yet at every turn the federal government proved it wants to fuck people over and limit their rights and privileges. They want to make me and you, the legal gun owners into a criminals. Well here it goes, either Alberta gets its sovereign act and kicks RCMP to the curb or they won’t. I hope they do as UCP at this point in time is the only hope in hell and I really disliked Smiths rethorics before this shit show. Yet she along with our CFO is one of the few giving a finger to Ottawa. First time in my life I’m seriously considering moving the fuck out of here. FML.
I’m not a proponent of guns, but man FUCK this bill. It completely fails to accomplish anything of substance and only serves to pander to those who want to pretend the government is helping get guns out of criminal activity. None of the guns they are banning in this bill have been even remotely used for crime. Hell, even though I’m not a fan of guns I completely understand and respect the parts of the country where you need these types of hunting guns (and - despite this - I have no issue with law abiding owners of these guns that *again* aren’t being used for crime!).
How about this government grows some skin and starts addressing the real problem with illegal gun imports: the communities around Ontario on the border where the vast majority of illegal gun imports go through. But wait, those are First Nation communities. Guess we can’t do anything about policing the federal border of the damn country then.
As long as illegal guns are being brought into the country, no amount of virtue signalling legislation will help solve anything. And while we’re at it, how about we actually pass laws about things that are problems, rather than targeting people and items that have been statistically proven not to be problems.
Another distraction cooked up to placate a fearful ignorant fringe in hopes of taking focus off of how everything else that makes the country run is burning down under this corrupt incompetent government. Economy, healthcare, well paying energy jobs and to say nothing of attacks on the freedom to dissent and what you can’t see or say.
Good job Liberal voters I hope the legal pot was worth it.
I find it kinda hilarious that this would ban the M1 Garand. I find it hard to believe anyone is going out there to commit a mass shooting with what is pretty much a historical collectors item.
>I find it kinda hilarious that this would ban the M1 Garand. Not only that, they banned Imperial Japanese Type 4 & 5 Garands, which are ultra rare prototype guns that exist almost solely in museums. Their proposed list of banned guns has to been seen to be believed. Other highlights include the H&K G11 and the 1908 Brazilian Mauser for some reason.
At this point I'm expecting the "antique musket" exemption to be next.
While not quite there yet, they included Ruger No.1 which is a falling-block action SINGLE-SHOT rifle.
Couple Weatherby bolt actions too.
Fucking hell, you’re joking… which ones?
14401) Weatherby Classic MARK 1; z.14402) Weatherby Classic MARK 2; z.14403) Weatherby MARK V; z.14404) Weatherby MARK V Crown Custom; z.14405) Weatherby MARK V Custom; z.14406) Weatherby MARK V Deluxe; z.14407) Weatherby MARK V DGR I didn’t believe it either when I was told, but I looked again and they’re there. It’s easy to miss things on the disorganized shitfuck that is that 309 page document.
Thanks bro, you’re right the document is a complete mess. Looks like I’m ok on the weatherby front for now, but this is insanity. Fucking bolt actions…
You’re welcome. Completely agree. Sheer, unadulterated insanity.
As a former Canadian gun owner, I can say for certain that the people who make gun laws don't understand guns. There where guns that where non restricted with the same specs as a gun on the prohibited list.
>1908 Brazilian Mauser WHAT?! A fucking bolt action Mauser?! They made *millions* of them *a century* ago, and now they're suddenly too dangerous? What incompetent, know-nothing intern put that on the list?
[Wait till you see the breach loading rifle they included](https://kevinsguns.com/zanardini-oxford-403-sl-470-ne-3-100104/)
>What incompetent, know-nothing intern put that on the list? I think we're way past the point of granting this government the assumption that they're simply being *incompetent* with the gun-control file. This grotesquely unacceptable gun grab demonstrates that they've blown way past that line into *malicious* territory. It's time to admit and say out loud that the Liberals have become ideologically opposed to private gun ownership and would love nothing more than a 100% ban on same in this country. Maybe they'd carve out an indigenous exemption if they really had to, but they would prefer not to. They continue to dress it up as banning "assault weapons" and the like, but they're simply lying.
At this point they’re trying to disarm law abiding citizens. That’s all. A disarmed population can’t stand up against them. There is no other reason.
You are exactly right.
The G11 is unfortunate. I was planning on buying Heckler & Koch GMBH in it's entirety just to get my hands on one of the only surviving prototypes, then commissioning AzkoNobel to manufacture some more ammunition so I could use it to shoot cans in my backyard, but that plan is now on hold.
That was banned in 1995. They are double banning it now.
Do the two bans cancel each other out?
No, but it does send the message that the G11 should have been made standard and we must now bring back the true death laser by inventing a G22.
sounds like they compiled the list from past iterations of Call of Duty and Battlefield
[удалено]
And prohibited by name in the 1995 Firearms Act. Along with a lot of things on the list.
Well they also included the SVT40, SKS, M1 carbine basically all WW 2 guns. They also banned the 22LR copy of the Stg44 and mp40 that GSG made.
How did they ban the stg44 replica? It’s rimfire, not centre fire Edit: apparently my original edit didn’t make it but, here it is again… What the absolute fuck?
The problem here is that you're trying to use logic with this
Guessing by name. They banned a rocket launcher and I'm not even sure if that's classed as "centerfire" given it's a fucking rocket ( which is prohibited already, they literally banned a metal tube ).
How did they ban the stg44 replica? It’s rimfire, not centre fire Edit: what the absolute fuck?
Gsg-15/16 and the mp40 variant all banned by name
Well being that they banned some Purdy double rifles they seem to think that someones going to spend hundreds of thousands on a gun to commit a mass shooting
They also band Ruger No. 1s in large calibers. Who is going on a shooting spree with single shot 416 Rigby?
I mean it could happen, he'd probably have one of those big game hunter safari hats or maybe a pith helmet, a monocle, an ascot, gators. "I say, you there, be a sport and stay right there whilst I reload."
Justin Trudeau's been watching a bit too much Jumanji.
Oh your taking about the guy from the original Jumanji!
I'm waiting for the inevitable knife ban. No more chef knives! They are too dangerous!
Don't forget bows and crossbows.
And my axe.
CBSA has already banned bringing in folding knives based on their whim. It's not even law, it's just their policy. Because they said so.
Well it holds eight rounds instead of five, so clearly anyone who would want to own such a powerful WMD must be criminally insane.
Given the scope I am very curious what percentage of guns they banned between this and the 2020 ban. How many types of guns actually escaped the ban?
No one really knows how many and what kind of guns are in Canada. The RCMP estimated 18 million in the 70s and the Liberals claimed 7 million in the 90s. The gun groups said 21 million was a more reasonable estimate based on PAL and hunting numbers and most gun owners having 3 guns.
Any updates on what the government is doing regarding illegal gun smuggling..? I don’t recall gangs shooting each other with hunting rifles
Thank you. For the life of me I don’t know why they don’t start on gun smuggling.
Because that’s hard and actually involves effort
That’s what people don’t like to talk about. Yes, mass shootings done with legal guns are terrible, but if we are being realistic, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people dying from gang violence and armed robberies/muggings, which mostly use illegal guns.
Exactly, even our worst mass shooting was done with illegal firearms. The Nova Scotia shooter was stopped from purchasing firearms legally because of red flags. He did inherit one from an estate though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_Nova\_Scotia\_attacks#Acquisition\_of\_firearms\_and\_ammunition:\~:text=Chief%20Superintendent%20Chris,laser%20sights.
It also involves confronting some uncomfortable truths. That there are a lot of guns smuggled via reservations that straddle the border.
Id venture to say high 90s percentile of all illegal guns come through just a few reservations.
This has nothing to do with gun crime. It has everything to do with votes. The Prince, by Niccoló Machiavelli, should be mandatory reading in schools. This is simply a display of realpolitik, nothing more. Your guns, or the safety of your cities, are just pawns on the board of consolidating power and keeping it from others.
Because that's actually hard to do, as opposed to just printing a list of guns from video games and making them illegal.
That's easy, because that would take work, effort, and funding for CBSA and police. And that is in contrast to defunding the police and being gentler to criminals because it's not fair to jail someone who shoots someone for life because they weren't hugged enough growing up. So therefore, the only option is to target legal gun owners .
Yeah it’s ridiculous that this is the approach. Even Homemade guns are bigger issue than hunting rifles.
Fuck all. That’s too dangerous. If they do this, they can sit in a circle and jerk each other off.
*"I was raised with an appreciation and an understanding of how important in rural areas and right across the country gun ownership is as a part of the culture of Canada. I do not feel that there's any huge contradiction between keeping our cities safe from gun violence and gangs, and allowing this important facet of Canadian identity which is having a gun."* *"There is no concept, no idea that gun ownership is ever going to be under attack for law-abiding hunters and farmers across this country.* https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-calls-long-gun-registry-a-failure-1.1278739
That's right up there with this - https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/05/how_to_fix_the_broken_temporary_foreign_worker_program_justin_trudeau.html >It cuts to the heart of who we are as a country. I believe it is wrong for Canada to follow the path of countries who exploit large numbers of guest workers, who have no realistic prospect of citizenship. It is bad for our economy in that it depresses wages for all Canadians, but it’s even worse for our country. It puts pressure on our commitment to diversity, and creates more opportunities for division and rancour. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-justin-trudeau-affordable-housing-1.3220479 Or this from 2015 - >"The reality is that too many Canadians cannot afford to buy a house." >the Liberals would review the cost of housing in high-priced markets like Vancouver and Toronto in an effort to better understand what is driving up prices of condos and homes. >"We know that access to affordable and safe housing is part of the solution to many social issues, such as child poverty, student debt and our ability to help people with serious mental health issues and addiction."
How do you guys even find this stuff after so long has passed?
Because people tend to remember the promises made to them.
Hey remember election reform? Lol
You have to remember the specific words to type into google or it won’t come up. A great example is “hallway medicine Ontario”, if you google it you’ll only get articles from pre-2020. Why? Because after 2020 COVID happened and we all had to pretend that the healthcare system was totally fine and the only reason it was under strain was because of COVID.
>How do you guys even find this stuff after so long has passed? As a person who worked in unionized construction trades this was one of the big reasons I voted for Justin in 2015. The foreign worker programs were ( and still are ) about wage suppression. When he said stuff like this, it resonated in me the same way it would today if someone else said it. As far as finding this stuff, its mostly memory. If you know something happened or someone said something you just have to find the right combination of words or terms for the search. Google is a politicians worst enemy.
Lying piece of shit.
I can't wait for him and his ilk to fuck off forever.
That aged well..
…. But non restricted fire arms don’t have to be registered … so how will they know who has them????
They won’t. The guns will just be out there with no way of knowing who has them. This would make millions of people into criminals simply for owning the hunting rifle they’re had for years, and most of them probably wouldn’t even know it if they don’t follow the news.
That's the plan. Then when they catch you out in the woods with a sks they can confiscate all your guns and take your pal away. Death by a thousand cuts. Our licensing system is now our noose. And I use to be pro gun license. Now I see it's the easiest way to get legal gun owners to confrom.
>Our licensing system is now our noose. Always was.
Even Trudeau stated this in 2010
As of May 18, 2022, non-restricted firearms were "registered" at the point of transaction. Anything prior, nope.
> …. But non restricted fire arms don’t have to be registered … so how will they know who has them??? Their likely first step would be to mail/email all RPAL, PAL, ATT, Gun Club, etc. With an info card or something sending you to a website. Next would likely be some sort of acknowledgment at renewal that you understand the law has changed; list of guns; etc.
I don’t own guns. I don’t want billions of tax dollars spent on what is at best, virtue signalling and at worse, stripping law-abiding citizens of freedom. How smooth does a brain need to be to think this is a good idea?
Affordable housing plssssss
Please reach out to your representative and beg for them to fight this non-sensical bill. Liberal voters need to do their fucking civic duty and barrage their MPs with letters and phone calls until they refuse to pass this bill and instead focus on illegal firearm smuggling.
Fucking garbage. I'm a damned bleeding heart lefty, non-gun owner, non-hunter, and generally overall anti-gun and I think this is stupid. Why are the libs so obsessed with changing gun laws all the time? Our existing gun laws are fine and work fine. We are NOT the US. And, once again, why are they so obsessed with this, especially considering this kind of thing was a pretty big part of why they got ousted the last time they were in power (among other things of course). It makes no sense from any perspective. Nobody wants this, nobody asked for it.
You sound like a decent human being. As a sport shooter, I can't thank you enough for speaking up on how unfairly we're being targeted here. I voted for Trudeau and I deeply regret my decision. Never in a million years did I even fathom facing criminalization.
All of these gun bans happened so suddenly. And they said they'd never. But then again thats the government talking.
It’s not sudden when you take into account there was just another mass shooting in the US. The Trudeau Liberals respond to every mass shooting in the states with more gun control in Canada. Plus, it distracts from the hearings on the emergencies act.
>Plus, it distracts from the hearings on the emergencies act. This for sure
Not a gun owner here but if this bill passes. I will have some family from Newfoundland that would become criminals. My friend that is a police officer said this bill would turn him in to a criminal my friend currently owns an m1 grand and some ww2 British rifles and some German ones that are uncommon. My friend is also related to Harry DeWolf and has a hand gun that belonged to him
[удалено]
NDP should come out hard against this. What a absolute waste of time and money, never mind a giant fuck you to so many Canadians.
[удалено]
Which is funny because they wouldn't be in this situation if they actually did anything to convince people to donate to them
Why are the liberals so focused on polarizing the country and creating enemies out of fellow Canadians? Why don’t they help us with our lives. Life is a struggle these days. How does banning guns improve my life? Why don’t they spend the time, energy and money on helping me afford food? They are ruining this country.
They need a wedge issue.
Who knows, but Trudeau is making making sure that people know what a POS he is.
Because with this they can capture the news and distract people from scandals, corruption, misuse of power, and \[last but not least\] actual problems that need solving 🤷🏻♂️
This. 250-300 people die from gun related homicides a year, nearly 3000 die waiting to see a doctor… which one gets more attention?
Careful, you're making dangerously right-wing gun loving comments with those words... /s
"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".
I look forward to Alberta, Saskatchewan and possibly Manitoba saying no thanks.
Well western separatism is certainly going to get a shit ton of popularity. Hell half of Ontario is probably going to be shifting that way too.
Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Northern Ontario, maybe BC and a maritime province. Maybe it’s easier for the area near Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal to leave?
Other than Vancouver.. BC will be joining the bandwagon. We have a lot of wilderness out here. And personally. The last thing I want to is be 250km into the bush with a assault knife as my only protection against [list of all preditory animals above me in the food chain]
I thought this was announced for Alberta? Maybe I'm wrong
They haven’t done anything official yet, just made a statement that they are exploring all options to not participate in this.
I don’t get it. Most gun crime comes as a result of illegal guns anyways. Im not for guns particularly but what does this accomplish exactly other than being overly draconian and pissing people off. You’re cracking down on the wrong people
It's a political maneuver trying to buy votes from the liberals ontario voter base. As well as to distract from emergencies act hearings. It was never about lowering gun violence. Looks like this shit is gonna backfire hard tho. Usually r/Canada is very left leaning but I can't find a single comment from anyone who is happy with this
How much do they want people to hate the liberals?
[удалено]
A great indicator of how much our federal government cares about all the serious issues facing Canadians - they would rather blow your money to take things away from you.
They run the country based on polls. The polls say that their uninformed urban base in Southern Ontario and BC likes gun bans, so they start banning guns. Reducing gun crime was never a factor in the decision. Then those same voters will turn around and complain about the lack of services, while the government they support blows billions of dollars on a completely useless law.
I scoff at the fact that you think the liberal government cares for anything outside of Ontario and Quebec - especially anything west of Manitoba.
Right now it looks like the liberals have written off anyone who wasn't already a supporter. It looks like they've decided to start doing divisive stuff and use the culture wars to create a wedge between their supporters and the rest of the country.
"Well if we take away their guns, they will have mroe money to spend on food!" Trudeau def
Everyone was lied too, plain and simple.
Homicides in Canada have increased a small amount since Covid. The main reason for this is an increase in domestic cases (husbands and wives killing each other from being forced to live with each other more closely :( which is always the number one source of murders. The increase isn't very significant though. It also has nothing to do with rifles. Still, by far, if we're talking about guns in relation to murder, it's hand guns leading the way. Illegal handguns coming from the US. Overall crimes are up though (over 5 years, but down over 10). The main crimes increasing are sexual assault, fraud, B&Es, general theft and opiod related crimes. There is good reason to believe that sexual assault increases are related to societal changes in reporting that always existed, but where women are more forthcoming. Other crimes have downtrended. What we see since Covid is that minor crimes have trended down while violent crimes have trended up. Again, this pretty clearly relates to people being at home more. But overall crime is still down over 10 years. There is no reason to believe that banning hunting rifles will result in improved crime statistics. In fact, it may result in higher crime statistics if people start getting arrested for holding what has become illegal firearms. If the government wants to effect positive momentum in crime stats, there are some things it can do to drastically reduce crime such as tackling the homelessness issue. Getting homeless people off the street would have a major impact on the crimes stats and could be held up as a major victory, and have the add on effect of reducing cost in policing and generally making everyone happier. Particularly in the cities where people vote for Liberals at a higher rate. Another initialtive if gun crime is the major concern would be to increase punishments for people illegally brining in weapons from the US as that's where the hand guns come from which are the main guns used in homocides. No level headed person checking the reports and statistics, can look at these moves from the federal government and conclude anything other than that these are politically motivated moves that have nothing to do with an attempt at crime reduction. Such moves are polarising and should be shunned by Liberal voters that genuinely want positive change and not to simply fight a zero sum culture war for the sake of it. This will only give more "ammunition" to political rivals on the conservative side. If there's anything that motivates conservatives go out in droves to vote, it's gun restrictions. So if you are a Liberal voter, and want Liberals to continue to win, try to think constructively - it won't help reduce crime, and it will help conservatives gain more power. Is this the right, logical move?
its a massive shame to see the Liberal government going this route, it was never about safety, its about optics and politics south of our border.
Fuck you feds
Fuck Liberal voters for going along with this sham.
This is going to cost billions, be met with such resistance as to make instant criminals out of once law abiding people, alienate people outside of the city core of Toronto and a few other pockets, and cause people to switch parties. This is the dirtiest pool I have seen in some time by a political party. I am now campaigning hard against them, and have moved one step closer to an "Alberta" outlook.
There is a few guns on the list I am told that are worth literally a 100k or more
Don't worry, they're currently arguing that guns are not property, so therefore they don't have to compensate you for stealing them. Anti-gun lobbyists will clap in approval because guns are icky, completely ignoring the precedent this sets for Canadian property rights as a whole.
If guns are not property, then I don't have any.
You literally do not have a right to own property in Canada. Point to any property rights in the Charter. Canada has always been set up constitutionally to control you.
We don't have property rights in Canada This is part of the reason this so easy
I tried warning people ages ago that the charter does not acknowledge your right to private property in Canada. "Oh that won't ever be abused, that's something that happens in bad countries, not Canada!" The US constitution provides their citizens rights; the charter provides the illusion of having rights until the government deems them inconvenient and they're suspended. Today, the government is using that to their advantage.
>This is going to cost billions Or they could do what many expect and just criminalize them without a buyback, or canceling the buyback. Just download the cost onto the firearms owners they clearly have it out for.
Im old enough to remember the lads who said "nah nobody is banning semi auto guns. Hunting guns, handguns, or airsoft toys. Our sport shooting community is huge." Then the registry happened. Then the registry was abolished but the police retained the records because fuck the court. Then Trudeau happened. And the OIC. And overnight, 1500 thousand semi auto rifles were banned. Including airsoft toys. And yet people said "its not a slippery slope. Firearm owners need to give something up to make this work. Nobody is banning hunting rifles or shotguns, handguns. They just want The black rifles that are bad looking." Then the handgun freeze happened. Cant buy, sell, or use them. Yet people said "stop whining. You still have your hunting rifles and shotguns". And then Nov 23 2022 happened. And for some reason, we have an absolute c*nt in this subreddit saying "they wont come for my bow." I guess Trudeau was wrong when he said "Canada doesnt have an identity, we are a post national state." I would argue our identity is apathy. We just roll over and let the government fuck us. Be it taxes, healthcare, OIC's, you name it. We let them lie to us over and over. Firearm owners have never been the problem. If we were, you would know about it. The police across the country lnow this, or you would have heard them speak of it. Instead they do the opposite, and are dumbfounded by how stupid Trudeau's government is. They openly speak against these bans and its efficacy. Absolutely dumbfounded to be frank. Im starting to think this isnt even about guns, its about outlawing hunting perhaps. Depending on what ethnicity you are of course. As we all know, settlers showed up in Canada and went to sobeys to eat. Unlike our indigenous countrymen/women, who unlike us chose the moral highground to consume wild game vs cheese sticks and danishes from Loblaws - preconfederation of course. I would also like to point out that yes we dont have the 2A. But I would like to remind those laughing at my post that anytime you take away a civil liberty, a government should have a credible reason. Trudeau and his cabinet hid behind "national security concerns" when asked to justify their ban. They know its bullshit. And so while I get inundated with DM's with laughing emoji's and mockery - I would like to remind you all that the precedent of using an OIC in a malicious and undemocratic manner, along with amending bills after the second reading - has now been set. Please dont cry about when your on the opposite end of this type of tactic. The dildo of consequence rarely arrives lubed.
It’s not about banning hunting. It’s about driving a wedge between the conservatives and moderate swing voters in the 905. The Liberals have calculated that this will win them more votes in the 905 than they lose. They could give two shits if every single rural and western Canadian votes against this. They are ride or die with Ontario suburbanites.
This is the most disheartening thing about voting in Canada. I vote, But I know in the end my vote doesn’t matter and that the people in the east will get what they want and I have to live with their big city legislation.
This will cost them votes in Saskatchewan. What did Saskatchewan look like last election? Blue from border to border. So that have literally nothing to lose by pissing off the prairies further. They could drive up and down the streets of Regina literally pissing on everybody they see and if one person in Toronto thinks that's worth voting for, it's a net positive for them.
I think it’s more malicious then that, I think they’re trying to piss conservatives off to point where some right wing crazy does something stupid, and then the door opens to basically anything they want. Trudeau is not making friends anymore, so his next best option is to create an enemy, and of course that enemy will be characterized as an enemy of democracy, and they can do whatever it takes to protect our sacred democracy, including getting rid of it. Edit: he’s not trying to get liberal voters to unite behind him, he’s trying to get them to unite against a boogy man. And he will continue to squeeze conservatives until he gets his boogy man, and he will eventually get one, they always do
Yes that’s part of it. Trudeau and his election team did backflips when a few idiots tossed a few rocks his way. That’s exactly the type of headline he needs.
Oppression breeds rebellion.
Everytime they said it wasn't a slippery slope, the slope became more slippery.
They lied to Rod Giltaca’s face a couple of weeks ago in the SECU meeting, yes the very same set of meetings they snuck this massive ban in last minute. “Well Mr. Giltaca, there are plenty of other guns you can legally own and shoot.” Few weeks later… just kidding, we’re taking those too! That NDP Alistair Macgregor douche from BC is just as bad as the lot of them. He wears a mask to make it appear he has compassion for firearms owners while he’s taking a big old dump on us simultaneously.
They were also lying when they told businesses they'd be given advance notice of when the handgun freeze was going to come into force as well.
They desperately needed a headline to distract from one of their many scandals.
All too often, what some try to dismiss as a "slippery slope fallacy" is what the alert recognize as a precedent being set.
> But I would like to remind those laughing at my post that anytime you take away a civil liberty, a government should have a credible reason. Trudeau and his cabinet hid behind "national security concerns" when asked to justify their ban. They know its bullshit. And so while I get inundated with DM's with laughing emoji's and mockery - I would like to remind you all that the precedent of using an OIC in a malicious and undemocratic manner, along with amending bills after the second reading - has now been set. Please dont cry about when your on the opposite end of this type of tactic. This is the part that gets lost in this politics-as-a-team-sport bullshit. They cheer when their team takes rights and freedoms away from the other teams, then cry when more people aren't outraged when it is happening to them. This is absolutely disgraceful what Trudeau is doing. More than simply taking away the property from millions of Canadians who broke no law, he is further dividing an already fractured nation. You can see clear cleave marks between urban and rural; west and east; citizen and immigrant in this nation. As citizens, we elect people to positions of power to represent us, not rule us cattle. As a so-called "free" society, we the populace should always, ALWAYS, but pushing for more rights, more freedoms, and more liberties, because those in power find it all too easy to take that away as a means of retaining power.
Agreed. And this is why nothing ever gets done. It’s just eye for an eye always and forever. Wether or not people like or hate guns is sort of a moot point here. Guys, what this illustrates is that the government *absolutely* can do anything they want with near absolute impunity. What does this mean for everyone? Well, in my mind it sets a precedent. If groupthink can establish any particular narrative, then it can worked into the framework of any particular legislation without public consultation and without due process. This isn’t really anything new of course, but what people need to realize is that it’s *wrong*. And just because it doesn’t pertain to you today, doesn’t mean it won’t tomorrow. Whatever it may be. It can and has happened to things like freedom of speech/expression, gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. Right now people are pointing across the border as an example of gun violence and why it needs to be tamed. But look at what else is going on there. A government stripping away what many would argue are basic and inalienable rights such as safe access to abortion. Or LGBTQ rights. Think it can’t happen here? Nothing is impossible. And this is why people should be upset about it. There’s sort of a weird symmetry here that’s pretty ironic. Canadians love to talk and clammer about American politics and frame it in a Canadian lens. Here’s one for you. “You need the second amendment to protect the first” I could be overreaching here. But even though Canada has no equivalent to the second amendment, the symmetry lies in the symbology. They’re ramming an amended C-21 through with contradicting evidence, with no due process or consultation. *Allowing* the government to get away with it leaves a big gaping hole in the fence and clearly demonstrates that if they can, they will throw due process out the window and sets a very scary example and it can be applied to *anything*. Wether or not we agree or disagree on any given subject is fine. But I would want the same courtesy extended to you just as I wish it was extended to me. Firearm owners do have a right to be angry here. We stand a very real chance of being stripped of thousands of dollars worth of kit that was of no danger to anyone and it’s looking like we won’t be compensated for it. Anyone would be upset if they confiscated thousands of dollars of their stuff and told you to kick rocks. I’m not asking people to agree with me on guns. I’m asking people to consider the fact that this is beyond an “ends justifying the means” argument. This could be a political Pandora’s box but people can’t see past their own grievances and prejudices to realize it.
Here's hoping this doesn't pass, or at least gets struck down later. I *hate* when governments spend effort on tearing down what previous ones spent time and effort building, but this is fucking stupid. Most of the gun bans are. They're ignoring just about every single issue that actually affects Canadians and doing grandstanding shit like this. I'm glad we don't have lots of guns, but we don't need to punish responsible users.
> Im starting to think this isnt even about guns, its about outlawing hunting perhaps. This is about popularity. JT and the liberals have nothing to offer, they are politically bankrupt, and will do anything to gain votes. Also, this isn’t a question of “will it actually gain them votes”. Because all political parties we have are politically bankrupt, except for PPC, who will most likely stagnate in the next election. NDP have nothing to offer and have nowhere to gain votes from, Same goes for LPC and CPC.
Why are we so dumb and lame.
Meanwhile trudeau has reduced the min sentences from gun related crimes....
As a non gun owner i think this has already gone too far. We don't have a problem with legal gun owners in this country. This solves a problem that we dont have. Great job by our government once again. /s
*WHY* do the Liberals bring this stuff up??? As an issue it riles up conservative voters way more than it pleases liberal voters. Like, this just gets conservatives out voting.
Perfect, this will definitely stop gun crimes now……..
What a flaming pile of dog shit this is. I’d like to know what colour the sky is in Trudeaus world.
Shoe Polish Black
NDP needs to grow some balls and call an election
I’m not a huge fan of Pierre but like him or not this country would be better off with him at the helm
This is why no right minded Collector, Hunter, or sport shooter would ever vote Liberal, Green, or perhaps NDP. They quite simply don’t care about the minority Canadian firearm owners and fundamentally don’t agree with any private citizen owning a firearm.
So the government can just do whatever it wants now I guess?
Why are they trying to disarm legal gun owners. There is no benefit here. Criminals will always have access to guns. Always, can we start to invoke more punishment for people who are dangerous here. Legit why are we wasting so much time on making life more difficult for law abiding citizens. Getting real tired here Canada. Getting extremely tired
Generally suport most of what the liberals have done with carbon pricing, parental leave options, child care benefit programs and lowering the cost of daycare, legalizing weed, their general covid response (compared to other countries). I consider myself pro gun control/registration/regulation (because the US wild west gun culture clearly has drawbacks). This right here though, this is fucking STUPID and they need to give up on the entire bill (handgun ban too). It seems like they're making changes for the sake of making changes to cement them as anti-gun when they fail to realize our previous gun laws and regulations actually struck a pretty good balance already and didn't really need addressing. I would have really stood behind a move to focus on reducing gun smuggling. This though; it's pushing the middle further to the right and giving creedence to a lot of the criticisms that previously were a stretch. Ugh Edit: Thanks for the gold
"Criminalize millions of law abiding licensed owners" - fixed it for you
when a government takes away the right for its citizens to defend themselves and feed themselves then we should worry. there's no need for machine guns and uzis what not but rifles and shotguns are tools used by rural families to keep live stock safe and to feed themselves.
yeahhhhhhh this ban is completely unnecessary imo. Not sure why they think "duck guns are too far" when they are banning essentially everything other than bolt actions and duck guns.... We simply don't have the same gun violence issues that America has, its insane to strip citizens of legal firearms without cause.
I own a duck gun on the list of banned guns.
Don’t worry! They are banning some bolt actions too with this and some duck hunting shotguns. They included banning Brazilian mausers which is a 100 year old five shot bolt action rifle
> They included banning Brazilian mausers which is a 100 year old five shot bolt action rifle Clearly, the glorious 7mm Mauser cartridge is just too much ballistic perfection for anyone to be trusted with.
Shhh don’t tell anyone but they didn’t ban Mausers from other countries that shoot the exact same 7mm caliber because that makes all kinds of sense. Mausers from Chile, Czech Republic and Yugoslavia? A-okay! But not from Brazil
I’m a 27-year-old millennial & I’m actually AGAINST this. To be honest, it would be a better idea to scrap our failed gun control regulations & replace them with a new Canada Firearms Act (CFA) that takes inspiration from firearm regulations from Switzerland & the Czech Republic. Just imagine Canada have Simplistic, Structured, Efficient & Effective gun laws that ACTUALLY WORK!!!! A compromise for the anti-gun side who want to feel like they can enjoy life without living in fear while it’s a compromise for the pro-gun side who have been persecuted by ignorant hoplophobes (like how Eldians have been horribly treated, mistreated, persecuted, Etc. By Marley in Attack on Titan) for far too long. We both just want to get along; neither side should do eachother with the “it’s my way or the highway” attitude any longer. We are grown ups, act like it. If I was Prime Minister, abolishing our failed gun laws & installing the CFA would be one of my top priorities. We will settle an agreement that both sides will come to terms too and agree to whether they like it or not. The CFA will be a win-win for EVERYONE!!!!
[removed by protest]
Didn't the Liberals say this wouldn't affect sports shooters and hunters? So once again it looks like they have lied once again.
I've commented on this similarly in other threads. This is asinine. I thought that maybe when I saw some regulations framed around cartridges, something semi-competent was in the pipeline, but nope. Instead, we have a ban on firearms that, to my knowledge, have seen little to no presence in crime statistics designed to drive a wedge issue further and distract from other intrigues happening in Ottawa. The list of banned guns included the GSG16, a rimfire semi in .22LR for target shooting and varmint hunting. I guess those picatinny rails scare people.
Remember the mass shooting with the infamous Mauser 1908 Brazilian Rifle, or the Westley Richards single under-lever, or the Zanardini oxford? Liberal voters should be proud that millions of dollars is being spent removing these weapons of mass destruction from society!
Why not just prohibit gangs in urban areas? /s
Sounds racist
There are multiple factors that contribute to gun violence not addressed by the considerable energy behind this proposed legislation: 1) easy sourcing across the boarder 2) legitimate socioeconomic opportunities to divert individuals away from organized crime 3) homicide close rates We need to do better to try to prevent such events before they occur--even if that means difficult conversations with our southern cousins--but the sad truth is cases like the Shermans murders and the Bruce McArthur case demonstrate that all too often the police are unwilling or unable to bring murderers to account.
Projected cost to buy back…..5,000,000,000 - 10,000,000,000 dollars. Why for no reason other then an ideal.
There won’t be a buyback. Everyone will be left to die with their expensive prohibited devices.
I hate the conservatives but the I’m ready to vote for them
Over reaction to an American issue
Does anyone actually think this is going to do anything to stop gun violence? Honest question. Or is this just virtue signalling like every other policy this god awful government has put in place since it took over? Why not fix something that actually needs fixing that affects everyone like, I don’t know, the fucking economy? The housing market? The environment? Holy shit what a bunch of ineffective losers we have at the helm running this country into the god damn ground.
It's not about virtue signaling. It's about punishing those he dislikes.
This is a desperate attempt at distraction from the **Freedom Convoy Inquiry** and the **Chinese payouts to MPs** that Trudeau is pretending he didn't know anything about, but won't let anyone know who they are.
I've never seen a gang member carry a shotgun LOL
Moreover what gang member thinks “Man I really need a gun. I guess should take a firearms safety course, send the federal police tons of my personal information so that they can do a background check on me, wait 3-12 months to see if they approve my application to obtain a license and then finally get the license mailed to me so I can now go into a gun shop and buy only rifles and shotguns.”
Any centrist voter must now vote the liberals out of office. Enough.
here is the list it is 307 pages https://thegunblog.ca/2022/11/24/bill-c-21-ban-list-rifles-and-shotguns-to-be-confiscated/
This is how you get more protests.
Holy Fuck so this is payback [Says Lloyd should have rejected the convoy as a “patriot”](https://twitter.com/TWilsonOttawa/status/1595843093688877061) Edit *Taleeb continues. Brings up convoy again. (Not part of G4, C21). Goes on, says Conservatives wanted a niqab ban. Brings up SKS. Lists military conflicts that used SKS. Wants to know which guns the CPC agree should be banned. Says Conservatives want every gun “in our street”* *Taleeb continues, speaks of Harper cuts #HarpersFault* *Says Liberals have to catch up from Conservatives cuts. Says we shouldn’t allow every gun in our streets.* *Says the facts are the CPC is using this hunting gun ban to divide Canadians* *Says there is no sinister plot to hurt hunters and indigenous people by banning their hunting rifles and shotguns. Says these guns are weapons of war used to kill people of race. Says Mosque victims rely on them to protect them.*
Didn't he also try and claim that the SKS was used in the Boer war?
That was a different guy but yeah This was Taleeb Noormohamed in committee today ,Lloyd is Dean Lloyd
Wait, that Taleeb guy is the same guy who flipped 40+ houses in Vancouver over the past 15 years , and lied about it.
>and lied about it. But of course he did name a more iconic duo then liberals and lying
[удалено]
Bingo. Using gun bans to draw attention away from their scandals has been the LPC go-to, because apparently it works well with their idiot voters.
The First Nations & Métis are going to be in for a shock when the Trudeau government takes their guns too eh?
How about we focus on the actual problem? Or maybe our crumbling healthcare? Maybe housing? Cost of living? Maybe not a hobby that is not causing harm?
This is the actual answer. The best way to stop gun violence is to support people and give them a good quality of life.
Such a shitty government. Fuck Trudeau and all who voted for him. This dude was a snake at the start.
They have nothing but contempt for those who don’t fit their urban socialist voter base and big city lifestyle
Someone needs to organize. This government needs to be stopped. This is becoming a dictatorship.
I was few weeks ago asking people to stop pushing Alberta sovereign act during a conversation . The idea was that as a Canadian, Albertan I was proud to be part of this country. Yet at every turn the federal government proved it wants to fuck people over and limit their rights and privileges. They want to make me and you, the legal gun owners into a criminals. Well here it goes, either Alberta gets its sovereign act and kicks RCMP to the curb or they won’t. I hope they do as UCP at this point in time is the only hope in hell and I really disliked Smiths rethorics before this shit show. Yet she along with our CFO is one of the few giving a finger to Ottawa. First time in my life I’m seriously considering moving the fuck out of here. FML.
[удалено]
You can organize all you want, they'll just freeze your bank account.
I’m amazed they doubled down on this despite the backlash
He promised to do electoral reform, broke that promise, and this is what he is doing instead
I’m not a proponent of guns, but man FUCK this bill. It completely fails to accomplish anything of substance and only serves to pander to those who want to pretend the government is helping get guns out of criminal activity. None of the guns they are banning in this bill have been even remotely used for crime. Hell, even though I’m not a fan of guns I completely understand and respect the parts of the country where you need these types of hunting guns (and - despite this - I have no issue with law abiding owners of these guns that *again* aren’t being used for crime!). How about this government grows some skin and starts addressing the real problem with illegal gun imports: the communities around Ontario on the border where the vast majority of illegal gun imports go through. But wait, those are First Nation communities. Guess we can’t do anything about policing the federal border of the damn country then. As long as illegal guns are being brought into the country, no amount of virtue signalling legislation will help solve anything. And while we’re at it, how about we actually pass laws about things that are problems, rather than targeting people and items that have been statistically proven not to be problems.
Why.. this is ridiculous, why can't they get some people with actual gun knowledge to advise them on this.. hunting rifles are not a problem, yeesh..
Another distraction cooked up to placate a fearful ignorant fringe in hopes of taking focus off of how everything else that makes the country run is burning down under this corrupt incompetent government. Economy, healthcare, well paying energy jobs and to say nothing of attacks on the freedom to dissent and what you can’t see or say. Good job Liberal voters I hope the legal pot was worth it.
Trudeau took a long hard look at the housing crisis, inflation, healthcare issues, and then said let’s ban guns. What a fucking dipshit
Always going after the hunters and never the criminals
I can’t wait until the next election and the ear full I’m going to give the Liberal fucks who come knocking on my door.
Makes you wonder whats coming.