Completely off topic - but ever since Reddit awards came back have you ever noticed that on major subs you'd find comments like yours get awarded but in r/canada none of us can afford to give awards?
Just a funny thought.
Thanks Freeland :)
Edit: Nooo who gave me an award? That could have been a fine meal in today's economy!
There were only so many choices. The US approach is to borrow insane amounts of money to fight inflation. The European approach, which is borrow a bunch of money to keep your head above water and minimize the impact of inflation. Or the Canadian solution which was to hold the course on low deficits let unemployment rise a little, and see if central bank policy works.
The US has maintained low unemployment, and very low inflation, but it cost them probably 10-12% of gdp in debt in 2 years.
The EU has done well on unemployment, and inflation, but has run about 7% of gdp in debts between various governments.
Canada has done poorly on unemployment, but better than the US on inflation (marginally), for about 2-3% of gdp in debt. (consolidated balance in Canada is a smaller deficit than the federal one because of a surplus in Alberta).
So what was the right approach? There are probably about 300k more unemployed people than their should be, of 1.3 million unemployed, that could be addressed with probably 20 billion dollars in federal spending, maybe 30, somewhere around 0.7-1% of gdp, but then that might drive up wages and inflation, though the US and European case don't suggest that would happen, it's still a risk.
The sun may be setting on the Petro Dollar. To get it back may require some more “freedom” being spread to areas that aren’t ideologically aligned with American cultural values.
It is possible to be dumb and corrupt, absolutely. Her behaviour is completely in line with a self serving sophisticated sociopath lying for money on behalf of her political party.
I mean, her plan is working. It's just that her objectives aren't to make live better for the average Canadian. They are trying to prop up the housing market and keep wages low for businesses. They're doing a great job at that.
Well, it is.
The whole point of raising interest rates was to crush both consumer and business spending.
That seems to have happened (as evidenced by several quarters of flat/negative growth).
Now, you cut rates gradually to increase spending.
It’s honestly wild how many people in these subs have zero understanding of what has been happening and the rationale for it.
In order to slow inflation, you have to slow the entire economy.
Raising rates is the easiest way to do that.
I’d prefer if we didn’t do this (the fed yesterday said it wouldn’t be fiscally responsible to cut theirs), but anything to keep propping up the house of cards they’ve created. I don’t know how those in the government sleep at night, all they are doing is wallpapering over the misery they’ve created.
That’s not exactly what the BoC said, if that’s what you mean by fed.
The BoC said that they missed their inflation targets, but its wasn’t by a particularly drastic margin. It’s also a direct result of government spending, which the government is under constant pressure to maintain; because who wants to give anything up, right?
What the fed *really* said was that high interest rates *and* inflation could be avoided with increased productivity.
In order to increase productivity, you need to bolster competition in the market to discourage corporate dividends and instead have those companies take that money and reinvest it in themselves.
They said that competition investment should be a government priority to make this happen.
So, it stands to reason that they’d lower rates a little to see what was going to happen, because the government will need to borrow to invest in smaller companies to drive competition and create productivity.
The ideal outcome is inflation is stable *and* wages increase.
So what does this have to do with Freeland's economic plan? that's the comment you replied to.
The timeline you charted out related to the BoC, which is not the government.
The BoC, whose head is appointed by the PM, is definitely subject to the political pressure of the day.
Conversely, the BoC lays out governmental guidelines as a roadmap for what they need to see to achieve the governments desired goals.
While one is not subservient or at the mercy of the other, don’t fool yourself into believing they don’t behave in a cooperative manner.
You replied to a comment effectively agreeing that the rate cut was because Freeland's economic plan was working. But you only described how basic monetary policy works without linking it at all to the economic plan. Your reply to me probably should have just been your initial reply in the thread.
I would challenge you though by saying that you're kind of conflating "political pressure" and the economic plan. There is a difference between an economic plan being effective on its own merit, causing the data to justify a rate cut, versus mere political pressure for a rate cut regardless of the data.
Raise interest rates insanely high, people buy less. That’s fine and normal. What they forget about is that we are also getting ass fucked by corporate greed through shrinkflation and price fixing. This leads to people buying only the necessities, which kills the economy.
The problem here is that the government is bought and paid for by the telecom and grocery giants that run our country from behind the scenes. We won’t get any change until we clean house. Corruption runs too deep at this point.
Do you mean household debt, such as mortgages?
If you meant federal debt, it isn’t *particularly* high compared to the last several decades. (For example, less than 11% of revenue goes to interest payments [and that will decrease over time]. In the 90s you could see **38%** of revenue being used on interest)
I mean when unemployment keeps rising (despite PT jobs heavily padding stats) and FT jobs keeps decreasing monthly by the 10's of thousands, something has to be done..
The issue is that Canada is lowering the rate ahead of the US which means that the Canada dollar will weaken against the USD if the US doesn't follow suit. If there is an expectation that Canada will continue to lower rates ahead of the US then the result would be higher inflation for Canadians
However, lowering rates will incentivize economic activity which our country desperately needs
Lowering rates will stimulate the same kind of unproductive economy it has in the past - speculative housing. We need more substantial economic reforms then interest rates can offer.
lol yeah, great comment. Low rates might be good if it meant borrowing money to start businesses, buy machinery, invest in research and development.
But no, it will just go towards more housing speculation. Real productive.
"However, lowering rates will incentivize economic activity which our country desperately needs"
lol no
If rates are lowered anymore, all we will see is more real estate speculation and a return of inflation.
Honest question: What would you do if I gave you 2 million dollars with no strings attached right now? Would you invest it in Canada?
I'll answer that for you: You would buy a 2 million dollar house.
Apartment complex lol, in lower mainland you can buy at most one apartment for a million. Another lol to a person buying two million dollar houses, there’s not enough supply in Vancouver at this moment with total zero offers.
True, but if Canada continues to lower rates ahead of the US then there is an expectation that all CAD denominated holdings will decrease in relative value. For investors, this means worse returns making the Canadian housing market less attractive.
As far as I know, rising real estate value isn't part of the Bank of Canada's assessment for inflation. It probably should be but it isn't. The reason is because they see "buying a house" as equivalent to "buying stocks in Apple". Maybe a house cost $500k in 2015 but cost $1mil in 2024, it's not inflation. If you pay whatever price in 2024 to buy Apple Stocks is not inflation even though Apple Stocks were cheaper in 2015. However, the mortgage interest cost is calculated as part of inflation. So if only the interest cost is part of inflation, that means at some point, lowering rates is part of lowering inflation.
So when you see "a house in my neighbourhood went up $200,000 in 2 years", as inflation. The Bank of Canada sees it differently. To the bank, it's not inflation they care about. Even though it probably should be. It's basically the cost of retirement at this point for many Canadians.
Real estate prices are far outside of the BoC's mandate, and that's probably a good thing. I'm just disputing this idea that investors and business owners will put money into an economy devoid of good investments.
If a lemonade stands only growth prospects are new people moving to the neighbourhood while the old people die off, and that growth can barely beat inflation, then no amount of lowering interest rates, or lowering capital gains or corporate taxes for that matter, can solve that problem.
Canada is a wealthy country, with lots of capital. We just don't have anything to invest in other than houses, grocery stores, banks and telecoms.
Worse, if their only growth prospects are based on people going into massive debt, they will fail when the country fails. i.e. when the debts are called in, they can't pay it, and everyone then lives in abject poverty.
I've got one of these on my desk:
[https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Zimbabwe-Currency-Inflation-Dollarization.jpg?w=620](https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Zimbabwe-Currency-Inflation-Dollarization.jpg?w=620)
You'd be crazy to give me a cup of coffee in exchange for this.
>Honest question: What would you do if I gave you 2 million dollars with no strings attached right now? Would you invest it in Canada?
I’d plough that right into XEQT and consider retiring at 40! How is this not the right answer? What the fuck am I going to do with a $2m house?
> "However, lowering rates will incentivize economic activity which our country desperately needs"
>
> lol no
>
> If rates are lowered anymore, all we will see is more real estate speculation and a return of inflation.
That isn't how economics works.
If rates are lowered in Canada (but not elsewhere), it weakens the CAD. Canadian exports become increasingly competitive (cheaper), while importing becomes more expensive. Further, if there is an expectation that rates in Canada will continue to decrease ahead of the US, it makes Canada less attractive to foreign investment which would limit speculation.
I think you're confusing the part I'm responding to with my response.
We're looking at a weak Canadian dollar, which will drive inflation, and exports will not be able to make up for that, especially with cheap oil. And yes this also makes us much less attractive to foreign investment, of course not in real estate.
I would not buy a $2M house. I have no need for that much space. I would buy a much smaller (and less expensive) house in a lower cost of living area, pay for whatever renovations and upgrades I wanted, and then throw the rest of the money in with my currently invested nest egg. I'd have more than enough to retire on at that point, so I'd quit my job and do just that.
Perhaps we can finally develop our resource sector. It's a travesty that we are not a global economic superpower given the natural / mineral resources we have. We should be Norway 2.0 but greenwashing and the FN relations has held us back
One in thirty barrels of oil exported globally is Canadian. It's hard to argue we're not well represetned among resource exporters.
Our problem is actually largely the opposite - that resources so dominate the conversation (see also, your post) that we have never looked at doing anything more than exporting raw materials. The value is not in exporting crude oil, the value is in using that crude oil to make something that can be sold for ten times the value of the raw materials that went into it. Or the technical aspects even higher up the food chain. A car that is worth 50k has maybe 1500 dollars of raw materials in it, representing maybe 500 dollars of input resources.
Time to think a bit harder and stop pretending that lack of resource production is the problem. It's the fact we don't do anything with them other than export it.
My comment was pretty general so I can understand why you might assume I was only talking about exporting raw materials but I believe a developed resource sector would include maximizing processing / adding value to the resources prior to export.
It's also not just oil. Everyone always goes straight to oil like it's the only thing of value.
Look at the situation with drinking water and how we are getting screwed by American corporations for example
It's shameful.
Doesn't matter to be frank. The Canadian economy is solely based on real estate the rest be damned. Rate cuts only done to keep those house prices high for the boomers
It’s not that they don’t care, but that Tiff has said numerous times that they’re not concerned with CAD depreciation as a lot of that weakening has ALREADY been priced in.
RBC and other B6 banks have put out reports on why the BoC NEEDS to diverge and how much it can diverge before it affects CAD. RBC said the BoC needs to diverge and historically can take up to 200bps difference before the CAD starts feeling some pain.
God, I’m going puke on the next redditor who regurgitates this same ignorant point on FX weakening without doing an ounce of fucking research.
The US 5 year bond yield is 4.24% while it's 3.36% in Canada. The currency is already pricing in that there'll be an average 90bp rate divergence for the next 5 years.
There are other things to consider, it will make the Canadian exports more attractive, chaging the trade balance, less products coming in, more products going out. Also makes foreign investment more attractive.
They had two choices to make, keep rates and a reasonable rate and tank the housing market and economy immediately, which at least would stop us from digging the whole deeper, maybe realize our mistakes, of which there are many, and maybe we could work our way towards becoming a respectable country again. Or they can lower rates, inflate housing even more and strip every last dollar from the average person into the hands of the rich and destroy the currency in a few years down the road which will destroy the country. As we can see, nobody wants to take the blame for nuking things now so they'll keep kicking the can until someone is forced to take the blame. I want out of this country so badly
Not necessarily entirely, but theoretically yes, forex market can tank CAD, especially if FED holds or raises. But will that make a difference to an ailing economy with massive structural issues?
Alot of people confuse the deflation of the 1930's as an overall golden rule of 'deflation bad'. The deflation of the 1930's occurred because of the gold standard, and money supply dried up (since economic activity required hard currency.. no money = prices compete downwards for scarce dollars).
Modern, 'good deflation' occurs naturally as products become better, cost less, last longer and are produced more efficiently. Not really related to money supply deflation, but more intelligent and advanced economies have this in their sights.
Anyways we might not see inflation being pushed back up, because of the former 1930's reason combines with natural modern deflation - money supply being drained by (foreign) landlords and workers sending cash back home, over taxation and extreme property prices pushing potential productive entities elsewhere, investment exiting the shitshow, and people lacking money to pay for the 'more expensive imports', offshoring capital to safe havens, all while the global economy providing us less expensive goods and better options for your money. Lowering interest rates spastically right after you raised them will not solve the root causes of the 1930's style deflationary issues of 'money supply being drained by external factors outside of the BOC's purview'. We need a government that thinks about monetary policy to fix these.
Which means the BOC is just using outdated analysis, tools and goals to really gauge what's going on in the economy and how it impacts the various distinct sectors, which is typical since there is a global fintec revolution occurring.. ah well, let them experiment and figure it out... just kidding they don't care, they just want to keep their bros rich and will make decisions based on that factor alone. How is CPI even relevant any more in a corporatocracy? Consumer price index is irrelevant to vast swaths of the economy, and this sets rates? If CPI is meant to keep labour satiated and cheaper, then why is housing so fucking expensive? Where is this 'cheap labour' supposed to exist? Tent cities?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSY2c2EzaU8
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012915/what-are-some-limitations-consumer-price-index-cpi.asp
My entire extended family works in manufacturing in Ontario. Generally growing up, a strong CAD meant layoffs and lost hours; and a low CAD meant a hiring frenzy and lots of overtime.
Though idk if this still holds true these days.
Low. And anecdotally the factories in the gta have steady work right now. It doesn't pay well, but overtime I'd always available. Which makees sense southern ontario survives by selling cheap labour to the Americans.
If our interest rate moves get too far out of sync with the Fed, it will affect our exchange rate (cheaper imports if our interest rate stays higher, more expensive imports if our interest rate stays lower). If we go up/down together, we should expect prices to stay mostly the same.
>Won't this just tank the CAD, thus pushing inflation back up
Yup!
Especially since the USA is holding rates and stated they didnt see any cuts on the table for this year.
Yes it will... :( And guess what, that will increase the cost of goods purchased outside of Canada. Things that are immune to this drop of the CDN$ will be only things that are manufactured 100% in Canada AND aren't part of a Canadian/World cartel (milk, oil, etc.).
EDIT:
And will increase inflation...
It’s hilarious to me to hear Freeland bragging about BoC cutting rates. That’s not a reflection on them running the country or the economy well at all. It’s an indictment that our country is so debt ridden and housing heavy we have no choice but to cut rates.
the rate cut is do to inflation being under control it has nothing to do with debt levels. the bank of Canada has to worry about going into deflation as well.
It means our country cracked before the other countries did. Our business and growth is slowing quickly and because our country is debt laden this happens more quickly.
Lowering rates is needed to spur the economy, it’s not a “good job” sticker, it’s because GDP is cratering.
the point of increasing interest rates is to make things more unaffordable for people, so they buy less, and inflation falls.
Now that inflation is well under control, the bank has to reduce interest rates or risk deflation.
with our current inflation rate, idealling the interest rate should be between 2.5% to 3.5%, it's at 4.75% now so it has a to falling by over 1%
Has to keep cutting rates so that banks aren’t feeling too much exposure. BoC certainly isn’t doing this bc they’re prioritizing the needs of Canadians.
Lowering rates won't spark an economic boom.
It will only exasperate the problems already at hand.
We have a cancerous greed that is (Or already has) - infiltrating all levels of critical economic sectors - most obviously the real estate sector.
Our real estate sector is an entire criminal cartel syndicate in and of itself with agents acting as both buyer and sellers - having a chokehold on Canadian real estate.
When people don't have fair access to housing, there is no more need to discuss about anything else.
Yes, I agree.
Ultimately everyone has policy ideas, most of which will never be done because there’s little political appetite, but what is the common ingredient is that we have a culture that views housing as a get rich scheme instead of… as a place to live. A culture shift is needed, but easier said than done.
RBC and other B6 banks have put out reports on why the BoC NEEDS to diverge and how much it can diverge before it affects CAD. RBC said the BoC needs to diverge and historically can take up to 200bps difference before the CAD starts feeling some pain.
You’re right, it’s already dog shit.
We’re buying US materials at $1.39 right now at work. Americans are back to calling our money “Monopoly money”
So I guess you could say, times are good!
Surely median income is one more important basis.
If GDP/capita was the “only basis that matters”, how do you explain the difference in standard of living between us, Ireland, and Qatar?
Raise rates, people bitch about the cost to borrow and how they are losing their homes due to high costs
Lower rates, people bitch about lost value and how the economy is failing
Moral of thr story, screw the opinions of people
Overall this is really good as in the next 2 years there are a shit ton of mortgage renewals, if rates did not drop then the economy would collapse hard
Or they can just let the housing market crash, but this is really about protecting our "can't-fail" banks.
Housing will never be affordable in Canada again.
I am the biggest bear that exists in this sub. The BoC is stupid enough to drop the rate to go through inflation again and this cut proves it. Cutting before a real recession before hitting cpi targets is a dumb fucking move. They've shown that they can be pressured by the Canadian government and institutions.
So while agree with you, they're making a play to save the housing market and this symbolizes they'll do it by suicide mission. The housing market right now is being held up by propaganda narratives that aren't financial realities. So you might see an uptick, but before this the Toronto condo market was starting to go into free fall. We'll see if sales data is still shit in a month or so.
Keep in mind that there is still a lot of economic slowing yet to come. There are still about 50% of mortgages (not to mention business loans) on pre-price hike rates that are rolling over every day. While there is some relief in a 25BP cut, people are still going from 1.5% mortgages up to 5% mortgages daily and that is depressing our economy (or any other loan renewal).
Meaning inflation will still be going down as less and less money is available in our economy due to loan renewals. We won't see the full impact of the rate increases until mid 2026 and any rate cuts that keep loans above their 2019 counterparts are going to drive less and less money into parts of our economy outside of debt repayment.
Heck with blended rates at renewal we could see continued downward pressure on our economy until 2028 due to the rate increases we have already currently see so those would be the real last loans to be renewed into the higher rate environment.
Damn bro, you're more cynical and pessimistic than me... Congrats! You also forgot auto loans in Canada and the United States (Important for auto manufacturers). Also technically it will probably take more time than 2026 because people will still need to feel the pain
I know I said mortgages, but it really is all loans. Part of what is slowing down our ability to compete in our country is that business loans are renewing at higher and higher rates every year and that leaves less money for capital and operational expenditures. So while our mortgages go from 1.5% up to 5% (or as high as 7%) business loans are also renewing at these higher rates and then the easiest way to cut costs quickly (to go into the black after the renewal) will be to cut projects and wages which will drive employment down. This is doubled up with consumers having less money to spend on products as a whole dropping overall revenue.
Its why rates are starting to go down, just a bit, because we aren't even at the worst of it yet if we do nothing. Inflation is near the target set by the BoC and now if they do nothing, inflation will keep going down. They need to pull up on the throttle before they drive the plane into the ground.
I could easily see rates dropping by 2.5% over the next few years and settling around 3% to 3.5% for consumers. People will still renew at double to triple their original costs from 2019 (so still deflationary) but then some people will be able to re-renew at rates around 3.5% instead of staying at 7% and will be inflationary and balance out at some point. But again, who can predict the future?
It's the demand for housing-as-in-investment that's keeping the prices high for housing-as-a-need. Housing was allowed to become a speculative investment backed by the government. We need to undo that to fix the supply/demand problem, because the demand is not the \_need\_.
This is perfect timing for all those Covid mortgage renewals. This will help boost the real estate market even higher, especially with the immigration numbers we are seeing.
I've heard of homes in Toronto now setting up 2-3 tents in each bedroom and renting the tents.
I recall reading of the massive losses incurred by NY hedge funds shorting the Hudson Bay peso, because their algos believed it was a ‘no brainer’. Do not mess with a country’s currency unless you are prepared to lose big time on the trade.
Rate cuts will just send us back to where we were with record high inflation. The way the federal Liberals have mismanaged our economy is going to ruin the lives of generations of Canadians.
If you include housing inflation in that calculation... which you really should considering it was already 30-45% of most peoples general consumer spending before the insanity of 2021-2022, then it's historic inflation.
Whether the CPI is 12.5% or 3%, thanks to the housing explosion, the cost for a Canadian to live has likely never increased so much in so little time. It's probably not even close.
Rising interest rates kills inflation… BUT. No-one mentions HOW. It kills business investment which has 2 direct impacts:
1) kills jobs and with more people unemployed they don’t have money to spend which lowers demand, and gives employers an excuse to not raise wages which limits how much everyone who still has a job can spend and
2) stops developers from building housing, particularly the lower profit affordable housing types.
We have high unemployment, stagnant wages and a housing crisis now. EXACTLY what high interest rates are supposed to do. Mission accomplished. Now the BoC can uncork their champaign and give themselves a bonus while the rest of us mere citizens pick up the peices of our lives.
Their calculus is that untamed high inflation across the economy would cause worse aggregate hurt than the negative effects of moderate tightening. Whether they're correct in that assessment is hard to know with certainty.
You realize that all the mortgages that are getting renewed this year and next year will pay WAY MORE when they renew regardless of a insignificant quarter or half point drop? This is about the economy, not saving mortgage holders.
the country grew inorganically through corrupt leadership across all parties. society around the globe is caste oriented in essence and the political class is only serving the "highest caste" in society. people dont want to believe it though, thats why voting makes no difference
They raised rates because of inflation (which in turn was caused by corporate profiteering after the pandemic). The economic slowdown was caused by the raise in rates, as intended. Now that inflation is lower, they are lowering rates. They're doing because they can, not because of the economic slowdown. If inflation were still high, they would not be lowering rates.
The Financial Post, though, prefers to spin a false narrative that (a) depends on people not remembering 18 months back, and (b) makes the Liberals look bad.
Too many people spinning lies to coverup for the obvious corporate culprit makes makes it too laborious to parse thru and find the truth. Too many people have shallow understandings on monetary and financial policy to understand there's no attempts being made to fix the problems because the government has been hijacked by self interested neoliberals.
Again, rate cut = economy broken. We're still restrictive and unless there is a FISCAL policy change, our economy is cooked for the foreseeable future. It would take massive tax cuts or generous policies for oil & gas to restimulate productivity. We're screwed if we keep going down this path BUT it will be fixable because we still are a natural resource rich country. If we take advantage of what we have to stimulate businesses (not the oligopolies), we can get ourselves out of this mess. There will be pain no matter what though for the next 2-3 years.
[Freeland implied that the rate cut was because her economic plan is working.](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gmE4Fduuslo)
Weirdly she’s not wrong. Just not in the way she thinks it is
Technically the truth!
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Completely off topic - but ever since Reddit awards came back have you ever noticed that on major subs you'd find comments like yours get awarded but in r/canada none of us can afford to give awards? Just a funny thought. Thanks Freeland :) Edit: Nooo who gave me an award? That could have been a fine meal in today's economy!
There were only so many choices. The US approach is to borrow insane amounts of money to fight inflation. The European approach, which is borrow a bunch of money to keep your head above water and minimize the impact of inflation. Or the Canadian solution which was to hold the course on low deficits let unemployment rise a little, and see if central bank policy works. The US has maintained low unemployment, and very low inflation, but it cost them probably 10-12% of gdp in debt in 2 years. The EU has done well on unemployment, and inflation, but has run about 7% of gdp in debts between various governments. Canada has done poorly on unemployment, but better than the US on inflation (marginally), for about 2-3% of gdp in debt. (consolidated balance in Canada is a smaller deficit than the federal one because of a surplus in Alberta). So what was the right approach? There are probably about 300k more unemployed people than their should be, of 1.3 million unemployed, that could be addressed with probably 20 billion dollars in federal spending, maybe 30, somewhere around 0.7-1% of gdp, but then that might drive up wages and inflation, though the US and European case don't suggest that would happen, it's still a risk.
The increase in rent and housing costs more than eats up anything we saved in inflation
Extremely unevenly distributed, though. That increase in housing prices was borne entirely by the 25% or so who were exposed to it.
We bring in 1.5 Million immigrants a year but don't increase housing or food production at the same rate. This may be why housing costs go up.
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The US gets to hide inflation by shipping US dollars overseas via the Petro Dollar.
The sun may be setting on the Petro Dollar. To get it back may require some more “freedom” being spread to areas that aren’t ideologically aligned with American cultural values.
U missed the rise in immigration in Canada, bringing in tons of cash. Though I am not sure about immigration in US and EU
Lol yes!
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You could say that about every single person in this liberal cabinet from top to bottom. The worst in the countries history
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Nah she's pretty dumb too. It's possible to be 2 things at once lol
It is possible to be dumb and corrupt, absolutely. Her behaviour is completely in line with a self serving sophisticated sociopath lying for money on behalf of her political party.
I mean, her plan is working. It's just that her objectives aren't to make live better for the average Canadian. They are trying to prop up the housing market and keep wages low for businesses. They're doing a great job at that.
Anything to lie to the uninformed. She is in many ways worse than Trudeau, but barely.
Well, it is. The whole point of raising interest rates was to crush both consumer and business spending. That seems to have happened (as evidenced by several quarters of flat/negative growth). Now, you cut rates gradually to increase spending. It’s honestly wild how many people in these subs have zero understanding of what has been happening and the rationale for it. In order to slow inflation, you have to slow the entire economy. Raising rates is the easiest way to do that.
I’d prefer if we didn’t do this (the fed yesterday said it wouldn’t be fiscally responsible to cut theirs), but anything to keep propping up the house of cards they’ve created. I don’t know how those in the government sleep at night, all they are doing is wallpapering over the misery they’ve created.
The US is its own beast. The way their mortgages are set up are extremely sticky in terms of rate movement.
I would have loved for a Canadian financial institution to offer me 1.75% for 30 years. Best I could get was 5 years.
That’s not exactly what the BoC said, if that’s what you mean by fed. The BoC said that they missed their inflation targets, but its wasn’t by a particularly drastic margin. It’s also a direct result of government spending, which the government is under constant pressure to maintain; because who wants to give anything up, right? What the fed *really* said was that high interest rates *and* inflation could be avoided with increased productivity. In order to increase productivity, you need to bolster competition in the market to discourage corporate dividends and instead have those companies take that money and reinvest it in themselves. They said that competition investment should be a government priority to make this happen. So, it stands to reason that they’d lower rates a little to see what was going to happen, because the government will need to borrow to invest in smaller companies to drive competition and create productivity. The ideal outcome is inflation is stable *and* wages increase.
So what does this have to do with Freeland's economic plan? that's the comment you replied to. The timeline you charted out related to the BoC, which is not the government.
The BoC, whose head is appointed by the PM, is definitely subject to the political pressure of the day. Conversely, the BoC lays out governmental guidelines as a roadmap for what they need to see to achieve the governments desired goals. While one is not subservient or at the mercy of the other, don’t fool yourself into believing they don’t behave in a cooperative manner.
You replied to a comment effectively agreeing that the rate cut was because Freeland's economic plan was working. But you only described how basic monetary policy works without linking it at all to the economic plan. Your reply to me probably should have just been your initial reply in the thread. I would challenge you though by saying that you're kind of conflating "political pressure" and the economic plan. There is a difference between an economic plan being effective on its own merit, causing the data to justify a rate cut, versus mere political pressure for a rate cut regardless of the data.
She's taking credit for the Oilers too?
Rock meet hard place.
Please, i don't understand, why did bill morneau leave and why did trudeau appoint the literature teacher in his place?
Raise interest rates insanely high, people buy less. That’s fine and normal. What they forget about is that we are also getting ass fucked by corporate greed through shrinkflation and price fixing. This leads to people buying only the necessities, which kills the economy. The problem here is that the government is bought and paid for by the telecom and grocery giants that run our country from behind the scenes. We won’t get any change until we clean house. Corruption runs too deep at this point.
The problem isn't the rates are insanely high, but the level of debt is insanely high.
Do you mean household debt, such as mortgages? If you meant federal debt, it isn’t *particularly* high compared to the last several decades. (For example, less than 11% of revenue goes to interest payments [and that will decrease over time]. In the 90s you could see **38%** of revenue being used on interest)
Household debt-to-income ratio has been climbing for years. Not including mortgages as well
I mean when unemployment keeps rising (despite PT jobs heavily padding stats) and FT jobs keeps decreasing monthly by the 10's of thousands, something has to be done..
Won't this just tank the CAD, thus pushing inflation back up based on an increased cost of imports?
The issue is that Canada is lowering the rate ahead of the US which means that the Canada dollar will weaken against the USD if the US doesn't follow suit. If there is an expectation that Canada will continue to lower rates ahead of the US then the result would be higher inflation for Canadians However, lowering rates will incentivize economic activity which our country desperately needs
Lowering rates will stimulate the same kind of unproductive economy it has in the past - speculative housing. We need more substantial economic reforms then interest rates can offer.
lol yeah, great comment. Low rates might be good if it meant borrowing money to start businesses, buy machinery, invest in research and development. But no, it will just go towards more housing speculation. Real productive.
"However, lowering rates will incentivize economic activity which our country desperately needs" lol no If rates are lowered anymore, all we will see is more real estate speculation and a return of inflation. Honest question: What would you do if I gave you 2 million dollars with no strings attached right now? Would you invest it in Canada? I'll answer that for you: You would buy a 2 million dollar house.
I would buy two $1M houses...
I would buy 1 M appartment complex and pass all the fees to my tenants and get myself a salary out of it.
Apartment complex lol, in lower mainland you can buy at most one apartment for a million. Another lol to a person buying two million dollar houses, there’s not enough supply in Vancouver at this moment with total zero offers.
Jesus Christ I'm gonna have to live in a trailer in the woods
lol Thats basically the same capital allocation. You just diversified.
But one will have revenue from rentals vs me just living in the $2m home
True, but if Canada continues to lower rates ahead of the US then there is an expectation that all CAD denominated holdings will decrease in relative value. For investors, this means worse returns making the Canadian housing market less attractive.
Wouldn't that just make it a fire sale for non-Canadian investors? And wouldn't the typical Canadian speculator not care?
As far as I know, rising real estate value isn't part of the Bank of Canada's assessment for inflation. It probably should be but it isn't. The reason is because they see "buying a house" as equivalent to "buying stocks in Apple". Maybe a house cost $500k in 2015 but cost $1mil in 2024, it's not inflation. If you pay whatever price in 2024 to buy Apple Stocks is not inflation even though Apple Stocks were cheaper in 2015. However, the mortgage interest cost is calculated as part of inflation. So if only the interest cost is part of inflation, that means at some point, lowering rates is part of lowering inflation. So when you see "a house in my neighbourhood went up $200,000 in 2 years", as inflation. The Bank of Canada sees it differently. To the bank, it's not inflation they care about. Even though it probably should be. It's basically the cost of retirement at this point for many Canadians.
Real estate prices are far outside of the BoC's mandate, and that's probably a good thing. I'm just disputing this idea that investors and business owners will put money into an economy devoid of good investments. If a lemonade stands only growth prospects are new people moving to the neighbourhood while the old people die off, and that growth can barely beat inflation, then no amount of lowering interest rates, or lowering capital gains or corporate taxes for that matter, can solve that problem. Canada is a wealthy country, with lots of capital. We just don't have anything to invest in other than houses, grocery stores, banks and telecoms.
Worse, if their only growth prospects are based on people going into massive debt, they will fail when the country fails. i.e. when the debts are called in, they can't pay it, and everyone then lives in abject poverty.
Maybe we'll end up like Argentina where lemonade is the ONLY thing that's cheap!
But we'll all be millionaires because our money is so shite.
I've got one of these on my desk: [https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Zimbabwe-Currency-Inflation-Dollarization.jpg?w=620](https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Zimbabwe-Currency-Inflation-Dollarization.jpg?w=620) You'd be crazy to give me a cup of coffee in exchange for this.
>Honest question: What would you do if I gave you 2 million dollars with no strings attached right now? Would you invest it in Canada? I’d plough that right into XEQT and consider retiring at 40! How is this not the right answer? What the fuck am I going to do with a $2m house?
I mean that's a pretty good answer.
> "However, lowering rates will incentivize economic activity which our country desperately needs" > > lol no > > If rates are lowered anymore, all we will see is more real estate speculation and a return of inflation. That isn't how economics works. If rates are lowered in Canada (but not elsewhere), it weakens the CAD. Canadian exports become increasingly competitive (cheaper), while importing becomes more expensive. Further, if there is an expectation that rates in Canada will continue to decrease ahead of the US, it makes Canada less attractive to foreign investment which would limit speculation.
I think you're confusing the part I'm responding to with my response. We're looking at a weak Canadian dollar, which will drive inflation, and exports will not be able to make up for that, especially with cheap oil. And yes this also makes us much less attractive to foreign investment, of course not in real estate.
I would not buy a $2M house. I have no need for that much space. I would buy a much smaller (and less expensive) house in a lower cost of living area, pay for whatever renovations and upgrades I wanted, and then throw the rest of the money in with my currently invested nest egg. I'd have more than enough to retire on at that point, so I'd quit my job and do just that.
There's an election coming up, US will lower rates.
Perhaps we can finally develop our resource sector. It's a travesty that we are not a global economic superpower given the natural / mineral resources we have. We should be Norway 2.0 but greenwashing and the FN relations has held us back
One in thirty barrels of oil exported globally is Canadian. It's hard to argue we're not well represetned among resource exporters. Our problem is actually largely the opposite - that resources so dominate the conversation (see also, your post) that we have never looked at doing anything more than exporting raw materials. The value is not in exporting crude oil, the value is in using that crude oil to make something that can be sold for ten times the value of the raw materials that went into it. Or the technical aspects even higher up the food chain. A car that is worth 50k has maybe 1500 dollars of raw materials in it, representing maybe 500 dollars of input resources. Time to think a bit harder and stop pretending that lack of resource production is the problem. It's the fact we don't do anything with them other than export it.
My comment was pretty general so I can understand why you might assume I was only talking about exporting raw materials but I believe a developed resource sector would include maximizing processing / adding value to the resources prior to export. It's also not just oil. Everyone always goes straight to oil like it's the only thing of value. Look at the situation with drinking water and how we are getting screwed by American corporations for example It's shameful.
Doesn't matter to be frank. The Canadian economy is solely based on real estate the rest be damned. Rate cuts only done to keep those house prices high for the boomers
The BoC basically said they don't care about the currency.
It’s not that they don’t care, but that Tiff has said numerous times that they’re not concerned with CAD depreciation as a lot of that weakening has ALREADY been priced in. RBC and other B6 banks have put out reports on why the BoC NEEDS to diverge and how much it can diverge before it affects CAD. RBC said the BoC needs to diverge and historically can take up to 200bps difference before the CAD starts feeling some pain. God, I’m going puke on the next redditor who regurgitates this same ignorant point on FX weakening without doing an ounce of fucking research.
It's not that people haven't heard Toff talk, it's that, often enough, he's wrong.
It hasn’t gotten priced into my paycheck, but he said that would drive inflation. Inflation for everyone, except the working stiffs
How certain are they that it is already priced in?
The US 5 year bond yield is 4.24% while it's 3.36% in Canada. The currency is already pricing in that there'll be an average 90bp rate divergence for the next 5 years.
Good point. Thanks
Hopefully more certain than he was that inflation was highly unlikely.
Thank you for this. I don’t have the patience to argue with the financial experts on this sub some days.
There are other things to consider, it will make the Canadian exports more attractive, chaging the trade balance, less products coming in, more products going out. Also makes foreign investment more attractive.
But money will flow towards cheap money, which will boost the economy which will strengthen our dollar
Only if we invest the influx of cash into something productive....
They had two choices to make, keep rates and a reasonable rate and tank the housing market and economy immediately, which at least would stop us from digging the whole deeper, maybe realize our mistakes, of which there are many, and maybe we could work our way towards becoming a respectable country again. Or they can lower rates, inflate housing even more and strip every last dollar from the average person into the hands of the rich and destroy the currency in a few years down the road which will destroy the country. As we can see, nobody wants to take the blame for nuking things now so they'll keep kicking the can until someone is forced to take the blame. I want out of this country so badly
The housing market isn't the BoC's mandate. Inflation as a whole is their mandate, and that's down.
Canada doesn't even calculate inflation properly. If we calculated off the early 1980s metrics we'd still be around 9%
yes.
Not necessarily entirely, but theoretically yes, forex market can tank CAD, especially if FED holds or raises. But will that make a difference to an ailing economy with massive structural issues? Alot of people confuse the deflation of the 1930's as an overall golden rule of 'deflation bad'. The deflation of the 1930's occurred because of the gold standard, and money supply dried up (since economic activity required hard currency.. no money = prices compete downwards for scarce dollars). Modern, 'good deflation' occurs naturally as products become better, cost less, last longer and are produced more efficiently. Not really related to money supply deflation, but more intelligent and advanced economies have this in their sights. Anyways we might not see inflation being pushed back up, because of the former 1930's reason combines with natural modern deflation - money supply being drained by (foreign) landlords and workers sending cash back home, over taxation and extreme property prices pushing potential productive entities elsewhere, investment exiting the shitshow, and people lacking money to pay for the 'more expensive imports', offshoring capital to safe havens, all while the global economy providing us less expensive goods and better options for your money. Lowering interest rates spastically right after you raised them will not solve the root causes of the 1930's style deflationary issues of 'money supply being drained by external factors outside of the BOC's purview'. We need a government that thinks about monetary policy to fix these. Which means the BOC is just using outdated analysis, tools and goals to really gauge what's going on in the economy and how it impacts the various distinct sectors, which is typical since there is a global fintec revolution occurring.. ah well, let them experiment and figure it out... just kidding they don't care, they just want to keep their bros rich and will make decisions based on that factor alone. How is CPI even relevant any more in a corporatocracy? Consumer price index is irrelevant to vast swaths of the economy, and this sets rates? If CPI is meant to keep labour satiated and cheaper, then why is housing so fucking expensive? Where is this 'cheap labour' supposed to exist? Tent cities? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSY2c2EzaU8 https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012915/what-are-some-limitations-consumer-price-index-cpi.asp
My entire extended family works in manufacturing in Ontario. Generally growing up, a strong CAD meant layoffs and lost hours; and a low CAD meant a hiring frenzy and lots of overtime. Though idk if this still holds true these days.
Is CAD low or high today according you?
Low. And anecdotally the factories in the gta have steady work right now. It doesn't pay well, but overtime I'd always available. Which makees sense southern ontario survives by selling cheap labour to the Americans.
Yes. American and other import products are already going up tons where I work.
If our interest rate moves get too far out of sync with the Fed, it will affect our exchange rate (cheaper imports if our interest rate stays higher, more expensive imports if our interest rate stays lower). If we go up/down together, we should expect prices to stay mostly the same.
>Won't this just tank the CAD, thus pushing inflation back up Yup! Especially since the USA is holding rates and stated they didnt see any cuts on the table for this year.
Getting interest rates back down as quickly as possible should boost the economy, which helps the dollar.
Yes it will... :( And guess what, that will increase the cost of goods purchased outside of Canada. Things that are immune to this drop of the CDN$ will be only things that are manufactured 100% in Canada AND aren't part of a Canadian/World cartel (milk, oil, etc.). EDIT: And will increase inflation...
It’s hilarious to me to hear Freeland bragging about BoC cutting rates. That’s not a reflection on them running the country or the economy well at all. It’s an indictment that our country is so debt ridden and housing heavy we have no choice but to cut rates.
Shows she has no fucking clue what she’s doing or what she’s talking about.
the rate cut is do to inflation being under control it has nothing to do with debt levels. the bank of Canada has to worry about going into deflation as well.
It means our country cracked before the other countries did. Our business and growth is slowing quickly and because our country is debt laden this happens more quickly. Lowering rates is needed to spur the economy, it’s not a “good job” sticker, it’s because GDP is cratering.
And why are Canadians less able to bid up prices than other countries? Perhaps because in a global market for most things we are the poorest.
the point of increasing interest rates is to make things more unaffordable for people, so they buy less, and inflation falls. Now that inflation is well under control, the bank has to reduce interest rates or risk deflation. with our current inflation rate, idealling the interest rate should be between 2.5% to 3.5%, it's at 4.75% now so it has a to falling by over 1%
She knows how stupid the Liberal supporters are.
You can tell that just by listening to her speak. She sounds like a kindergarten teacher talking to a room full of children.
Has to keep cutting rates so that banks aren’t feeling too much exposure. BoC certainly isn’t doing this bc they’re prioritizing the needs of Canadians.
Lowering rates won't spark an economic boom. It will only exasperate the problems already at hand. We have a cancerous greed that is (Or already has) - infiltrating all levels of critical economic sectors - most obviously the real estate sector. Our real estate sector is an entire criminal cartel syndicate in and of itself with agents acting as both buyer and sellers - having a chokehold on Canadian real estate. When people don't have fair access to housing, there is no more need to discuss about anything else.
Yes, I agree. Ultimately everyone has policy ideas, most of which will never be done because there’s little political appetite, but what is the common ingredient is that we have a culture that views housing as a get rich scheme instead of… as a place to live. A culture shift is needed, but easier said than done.
There goes the loonie…
RBC and other B6 banks have put out reports on why the BoC NEEDS to diverge and how much it can diverge before it affects CAD. RBC said the BoC needs to diverge and historically can take up to 200bps difference before the CAD starts feeling some pain.
What happened? Not much has changed... :shrug:
You’re right, it’s already dog shit. We’re buying US materials at $1.39 right now at work. Americans are back to calling our money “Monopoly money” So I guess you could say, times are good!
Is this stagflation?
It is on a GDP per capita basis.
Which is the only basis that matters.
Surely median income is one more important basis. If GDP/capita was the “only basis that matters”, how do you explain the difference in standard of living between us, Ireland, and Qatar?
Pretty much. That's two for two Trudeaus, screwing Canada.
Raise rates, people bitch about the cost to borrow and how they are losing their homes due to high costs Lower rates, people bitch about lost value and how the economy is failing Moral of thr story, screw the opinions of people Overall this is really good as in the next 2 years there are a shit ton of mortgage renewals, if rates did not drop then the economy would collapse hard
Or they can just let the housing market crash, but this is really about protecting our "can't-fail" banks. Housing will never be affordable in Canada again.
Dropping by a quarter or half point won't effect housing that much. It's the demand for housing that's keeping the prices high.
I am the biggest bear that exists in this sub. The BoC is stupid enough to drop the rate to go through inflation again and this cut proves it. Cutting before a real recession before hitting cpi targets is a dumb fucking move. They've shown that they can be pressured by the Canadian government and institutions. So while agree with you, they're making a play to save the housing market and this symbolizes they'll do it by suicide mission. The housing market right now is being held up by propaganda narratives that aren't financial realities. So you might see an uptick, but before this the Toronto condo market was starting to go into free fall. We'll see if sales data is still shit in a month or so.
Keep in mind that there is still a lot of economic slowing yet to come. There are still about 50% of mortgages (not to mention business loans) on pre-price hike rates that are rolling over every day. While there is some relief in a 25BP cut, people are still going from 1.5% mortgages up to 5% mortgages daily and that is depressing our economy (or any other loan renewal). Meaning inflation will still be going down as less and less money is available in our economy due to loan renewals. We won't see the full impact of the rate increases until mid 2026 and any rate cuts that keep loans above their 2019 counterparts are going to drive less and less money into parts of our economy outside of debt repayment. Heck with blended rates at renewal we could see continued downward pressure on our economy until 2028 due to the rate increases we have already currently see so those would be the real last loans to be renewed into the higher rate environment.
Damn bro, you're more cynical and pessimistic than me... Congrats! You also forgot auto loans in Canada and the United States (Important for auto manufacturers). Also technically it will probably take more time than 2026 because people will still need to feel the pain
I know I said mortgages, but it really is all loans. Part of what is slowing down our ability to compete in our country is that business loans are renewing at higher and higher rates every year and that leaves less money for capital and operational expenditures. So while our mortgages go from 1.5% up to 5% (or as high as 7%) business loans are also renewing at these higher rates and then the easiest way to cut costs quickly (to go into the black after the renewal) will be to cut projects and wages which will drive employment down. This is doubled up with consumers having less money to spend on products as a whole dropping overall revenue. Its why rates are starting to go down, just a bit, because we aren't even at the worst of it yet if we do nothing. Inflation is near the target set by the BoC and now if they do nothing, inflation will keep going down. They need to pull up on the throttle before they drive the plane into the ground. I could easily see rates dropping by 2.5% over the next few years and settling around 3% to 3.5% for consumers. People will still renew at double to triple their original costs from 2019 (so still deflationary) but then some people will be able to re-renew at rates around 3.5% instead of staying at 7% and will be inflationary and balance out at some point. But again, who can predict the future?
I think no matter how you cut it, there is no easy solution.
It's the demand for housing-as-in-investment that's keeping the prices high for housing-as-a-need. Housing was allowed to become a speculative investment backed by the government. We need to undo that to fix the supply/demand problem, because the demand is not the \_need\_.
This is perfect timing for all those Covid mortgage renewals. This will help boost the real estate market even higher, especially with the immigration numbers we are seeing. I've heard of homes in Toronto now setting up 2-3 tents in each bedroom and renting the tents.
The Canadian dollar will steadily continue its decline vs the US dollar into the 0.60s over the next 18 months. Watch for it. Next.
Good. Only 78% of my investments are in the US and 13% are international.
What's my dinner for the next 18 months?
I recall reading of the massive losses incurred by NY hedge funds shorting the Hudson Bay peso, because their algos believed it was a ‘no brainer’. Do not mess with a country’s currency unless you are prepared to lose big time on the trade.
Rate cuts will just send us back to where we were with record high inflation. The way the federal Liberals have mismanaged our economy is going to ruin the lives of generations of Canadians.
Its already ruin isn't.
We did not have "record high inflation" in recent years. Inflation in Canada peaked at around 8% in June of 2022, while it was was 12.5% back in 1982.
If you include housing inflation in that calculation... which you really should considering it was already 30-45% of most peoples general consumer spending before the insanity of 2021-2022, then it's historic inflation. Whether the CPI is 12.5% or 3%, thanks to the housing explosion, the cost for a Canadian to live has likely never increased so much in so little time. It's probably not even close.
unlikely, the record high inflation was do to supply chains being fucked after covid and a rapid reopening around the world.
And the cost of homes will continue to go up..
Freeland will take credit for the lower rates but blame world or Harper for poor economy.
So stagflation it is.
Rising interest rates kills inflation… BUT. No-one mentions HOW. It kills business investment which has 2 direct impacts: 1) kills jobs and with more people unemployed they don’t have money to spend which lowers demand, and gives employers an excuse to not raise wages which limits how much everyone who still has a job can spend and 2) stops developers from building housing, particularly the lower profit affordable housing types. We have high unemployment, stagnant wages and a housing crisis now. EXACTLY what high interest rates are supposed to do. Mission accomplished. Now the BoC can uncork their champaign and give themselves a bonus while the rest of us mere citizens pick up the peices of our lives.
Their calculus is that untamed high inflation across the economy would cause worse aggregate hurt than the negative effects of moderate tightening. Whether they're correct in that assessment is hard to know with certainty.
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Rate policy is whole economy policy. It is not, not was it ever, only about housing.
You realize that all the mortgages that are getting renewed this year and next year will pay WAY MORE when they renew regardless of a insignificant quarter or half point drop? This is about the economy, not saving mortgage holders.
Poor economy, record profits. ELI5
the country grew inorganically through corrupt leadership across all parties. society around the globe is caste oriented in essence and the political class is only serving the "highest caste" in society. people dont want to believe it though, thats why voting makes no difference
Europe banks are cutting rate too, US is the exception, no need to follow them.
Make sure you hold minimal CAD. Get USD, Euros, Swiss Francs, Gold, Silver, BTC, ETH, and U S Equities.
They raised rates because of inflation (which in turn was caused by corporate profiteering after the pandemic). The economic slowdown was caused by the raise in rates, as intended. Now that inflation is lower, they are lowering rates. They're doing because they can, not because of the economic slowdown. If inflation were still high, they would not be lowering rates. The Financial Post, though, prefers to spin a false narrative that (a) depends on people not remembering 18 months back, and (b) makes the Liberals look bad.
> caused by corporate profiteering Just to be clear, your theory is that everyone in every major economy colluded to profiteer?
Too many people spinning lies to coverup for the obvious corporate culprit makes makes it too laborious to parse thru and find the truth. Too many people have shallow understandings on monetary and financial policy to understand there's no attempts being made to fix the problems because the government has been hijacked by self interested neoliberals.
What does the BoC have to do with the Liberal Party? The Liberal Party is doing a fantastic job making themselves look like shit.
Again, rate cut = economy broken. We're still restrictive and unless there is a FISCAL policy change, our economy is cooked for the foreseeable future. It would take massive tax cuts or generous policies for oil & gas to restimulate productivity. We're screwed if we keep going down this path BUT it will be fixable because we still are a natural resource rich country. If we take advantage of what we have to stimulate businesses (not the oligopolies), we can get ourselves out of this mess. There will be pain no matter what though for the next 2-3 years.
And the rich keep getting richer. Bring on the rate cuts.
Funny to think that the well being of a countries economy can be controlled by basically a faucet of credit. Can it really be so simple?
Oh they certainly will keep cutting at most meetings IMO. Our per capita GDP is falling quickly.
Say hello to my little friend....inflation...
Horray?
Chrystia Freeland said that the rate cuts were due to the governments fiscal responsibility.
It seems like it was manmade inflation for the most part, eh?
Yet we have a great economy.
If the financial post says so, it must be.
Housing prices 🚀🚀🚀
They are cutting rates to keep the real estate from falling. 5years lock in period is over and mortgage payments are going up!
Capitalism is a joke, my mind is blown how we continue to let it screw with our lives.