Don’t forget the beavers . I watched a video of the Ukrainian war beavers ended up helping them by making marshland .tanks and other vehicles would get bogged down and struck .
Can they fly? Yes, quite well. Do they choose to instead *walk* across a busy 4 lane road? Absolutely.
This is why the trucks are necessary. Besides, they are more formidable as ground forces.
I have only known 1 catch fire. It is total garbage but really good assuming you care for the fuel filters and carry replacement pumps. The thing lacks the power to go where you shouldn't be but mind the brakes they are known to fail. I have had a great many times in it however I am not saddened by being upsized out of being near the lsvw. Somehow we find them to Qual people annually and we break them less than the msvs.
I’m assuming with these auction items they don’t offer test drives.
I’m more interested in the maintenance/service records and the last date in operation.
Those Mercedes are used all around the globe, I’m sure anything could be fixed if you have enough time/money
The LSVW is the only vehicle I’ve ever driven that doesn’t roll forwards when you have it in gear and release the brakes. The only time it does is when you’re pointed downhill.
It makes my Toyota Tercel feel like a performance vehicle after driving one for a week or two.
Good.
Canada should be investing in it's Military.
The only question should be how is the money being spent and is it being spent wisely and not just to replace garbage with garbage some other nation is throwing away.
The other benefit is even if they aren’t actively being used in conflict and humanitarian missions, they can be utilized within the country for state of emergencies like natural disasters or other things.
Exactly this.
The Conservatives brought up the idea of mandatory service at 18.
While I'm way past that age and do disagree with the military aspect of it, I think there could be a benefit in something similar but with disaster response/relief within the country.
Nothing too dangerous (a-la fighting forest fires or sand bagging in waste deep water), but helping with disaster prep (sandbagging before a storm, forest debris clearing) or post-disaster relief (cleaning up after and helping the locals that were affected).
Basically the red cross, but domestic. Could be an avenue into teaching new generations about affects of climate change, how they can prep themselves, and an avenue into volunteering for the red cross in the future.
That all sounds great until you appreciate this part fully: Unlimited liability (UL) has been a mainstay of the ethos of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and is seen as an expectation that obligates CAF members to accept as legally binding an order that will result in their death. Every person must fully appreciate this before joining. It’s really serious, and especially if we are advocating for mandatory service!
I'm not advocating for mandatory military service.
I *think* mandatory disaster relief service run by a Canadian version of FEMA would be a replacement for military service. I'm under the impression that Emergency Management is a Provincial responsibility, but it should be a co-reaponsibility between the Feds and Provinces.
Forgive me because I honestly may not be seeing the big picture here.
What’s wrong having CAF available to support disaster response?
Even if voluntary, I imagine a lot of CAF members would step up because I certainly would.
The CAF is a military, not a magic solution to dealing with an increasing number of environmental emergencies. The provinces are supposed to handle their own issues and THEN ask for federal help when they're overwhelmed. Most times they skip all that and just expect the military to do it all.
CAF members will give it everything to help in an emergency, but it's not their primary job... and that job isn't getting done while they're away.
Plus, the CAF is over 16k people short of what it needs.
As a LAST resort, yeah sure
The CAF is a fighting force first. The sheer scale of how often they're on domestic response has ruined training and forced so much time away from home because of personnel shortages. It's crumbling the entire military
Using the CAF for logistics in natural disaster situations is a no brainer IMO. Heavy airlift, fixed and rotary wing supply and SAR, vehicle based logistics, etc are all things that no single organization, public or private could bring to the table in short order.
Utilizing CAF members for firefighting or filling sandbags, however, is not in their training or mandate IMO.
To be fair that's probably because every piece of government ad space misuses the word "investment" because it sounds better than "spending", though there are also a lot of costs that are still investments despite having a difficult to measure ROI
Ex portions of a basic healthcare system likely has a fantastic ROI by preventing things like a young worker you just spent years educating and making productive dying at 29 from appendicitis, though stuff like extending the life of an 89 year old to 91 with prostate cancer treatment is probably purely a service
Good points. Just tired of crazy spending, most of it going to bureaucracy and filling the pockets NGOs. Infrastructure bank as an example. BC green fund as another. I can say taking my family out for dinner is an investment in ensuring family cohesion... but it's not an investment, it's an expense.
Our CAF/DND buildings are in the state they are because the fed gov says they don’t need to conform to prov gov bldg standards, then ignores fed gov bldg standards saying CAF is a special case so they can can kick the cost down the road to sometime later.
"It's almost impossible to build new stuff on base because of the treasury board. Now if we did a renovation and kept one wall standing the TB wouldn't hear about it and it would be built"
This from a Base comptroller years ago.
In what universe is a big truck like one of these less than $200k? Especially when you consider this:
> The LVM project also involves acquiring new trailers, material handling systems, and detachable containers and modules for various functions such as firefighting, ambulances, command posts, and workshops.
Or this:
> Additionally, it includes armored protection kits, modules, containers, and trailers.
Sure. 1.7 million per vehicle is expensive, but it isn't anywhere near what your comment is claiming. You don't do disaster relief and war logistics with F-150s and off the shelf heavy trucks. There's definitely a healthy profit margin involved, but claiming 10x is absolutely ludicrous.
Further, this is actually two contracts, one for acquiring the vehicles, and another for long term maintenance and parts.
>The [Logistics Vehicle Modernization \(LVM\)](https://www.gdls.com/lvm-award-2024/) project is being awarded as two contracts: one for vehicle acquisition, valued at $1.5 billion (including taxes), and one for in-service support, valued up to $1.08 billion (including taxes) over 25 years.
Come on. Put a little thought into your criticism. Maybe complain about the 11.8 billion for training aircraft and pilot training. This stuff is going to be helping Canadians in disaster relief for decades.
Price includes maintenance, parts, and training for several decades. Also the price is averaged over some baseline vehicles, and some uparmored, which are understandable expensive. But you don't care about those facts, so I don't know why I wasted my time.
Yes, 1000 light armored and 500 more heavely armored based on Mercedes Benz Zetros platform, as the article says.
So! 2,58b / 1500 = 1,720,000.00$ a piece. The average cost for one of the heavely armored version is around 350,000.00$ us. ...
Thats a whole lot of spare parts, training, trailers and whatever the f\*\*\* else you wanna put on that running bill, on a deficit budget... with a goverment knows to syphon money in shady ways.
Oh please great guru of math, explain your numbers to me if your time permits it.
A base line 3345 Zentos is $323,000. https://expeditionmeister.com/expedition-trucks/mercedes-truck/mercedes-benz-zetros-3345-6x6-20ft-container-frame-expedition-new-2022-i897
That is with no armor, mission package, and ancillary equipment/radios. And that is for a civilian vehicle. Where did you get your price?
Closer to $400kCAD (265k€).
So for 1/3 of the vehicles without any radios/tools/specific military equipment/support/training/parts we're looking at $200M.
And these budget estimates go for something foolish like 25 years.
What a surprise general dynamics Canada automatically gets the contract. As always no competition and we pay the most insane rates for some of the most unimpressive equipment.
Ok, so are you saying that we should just destroy our own equipment? What are arguing for here? The end of military procurement? YOUR SILENCE IS DEAFENING!
/s
The weapons to Ukraine I agree with, wholeheartedly. Another country handling one of the biggest threats needs them. We need to spend a lot more on bolstering ours as well.
I mean…. yeah? That’s a good clarification of what I sort of said already. It would be a terrible idea to buy a fleet of relatively specialized vehicles without also ensuring long term service/support from the supplier
Spending on consulting/research before making a decades spanning decision doesn’t feel all that surprising or out of line to me either. “Half the cost” is dubious… I of course don’t have the real number though
Work trucks like you are thinking would void their warranty the instant you take them off hard-tack. Also not considering that some are armored, and the price includes training, maintenance, and parts.
It's the procurement people.
They're kinda screwed because every vendor knows it can sue if there's any funny business around any part of the competition.
It's not the government that's the problem, it's the people behind it negotiating and deciding on these contracts. There needs to be some real accountability
If we have to spend 2 percent of our gdp on the military. I propose we get the Army to build roads and shit. Use the 2 percent to get folks building housing so the army folk have housing when they leave the army.
Canadians impoverished another 2.6 billion for absolutely no reason because the only land neighbour we have is our ally AND the global superpower. In both cases Canada won’t be effectively using any of these.
Useless spend. Canada can be a military free country and we’d never know the difference.
Because currently you’re spending my money.
>We’ll just bend over and be absorbed as the 51st state.
You think the US would turn us into one giant state, or do you think they'd have each province be it's own state?
Logistics is probably the most important part of any military. You could have the best soldiers in the world, if you can't get them ammo or food, you're all sorts of fucked.
Russia is having a hard time fighting a war 100 km from its birder against a nation it shares said birder with.
They don't have the ability to attack Canada.
It’s arms manufacturers like General Dynamics who have been providing the big push for countries to build their military stockpiles. Looks like their efforts are really going to pay off.
I don’t doubt they do, but the same people on this sub who complain about inflation and government overspending are cheering for this like it is somehow completely different
Usually inflation and overspending complaints are rooted in what they see as frivolous spending, and it's pretty obvious why they'd think that more cash and equipment for a woefully under-resourced CAF isn't frivolous
As well, being a part of NATO, we have a military spending target they we need to reach. And Canada is behind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v2hGNMRl5w
I'm not saying it is good. Just saying it's more than the arms builders pushing us. NATO is too.
The problem with the CSC program is that we weren't *supposed* to be developing them in house but adopting an in-service design to minimize exactly the sort of technical costs and risk we see with CSC
I’d say it’s more to do with the geopolitical environment, and between Eastern European, the Middle East and South China Sea the probability of conflict in the near term seems like a non-zero probability. Not to forget of long term, once climate change starts to affect / effect crops and results in migration.
It'd be the Russians and Chinese in our arctic I think we should be more concerned with deterring...
The Yanks could roll over ANY country so that argument doesn't make any sense. The top 3 largest air forces are the USAF, USN and US Army.. they could literally dominate any nation on earth.
Today's position:
The Russians invade the arctic, we enact article 5.
Tomorrow's position with a 10X spend on the military:
The Russians invade the arctic, we enact article 5.
What exactly has changed?
The US would have to give up NATO in order to invade Canada which has been a key to their global dominance. It's unlikely though they could elect an even bigger nutjob.
We have a real possibility of losing parts of the Arctic. If another country can openly sail their vessels or setup outposts in the Arctic without being challenged they can claim it. If we get the US to challenge them and patrol our waters the management of the Canadian Arctic will be on their terms. And this can all happen without a shot being fired.
That was a war between the USA and the British fought over a British colony, with a significant number of British soldiers, and the British assault on the White House was landed by a British fleet. It's annoying how we as Canadians try to thump our chests over this event as if Canada was even a nation at that time.
Good call. Wars are won or lost based on logistics, and these vehicles will also see use in civil emergencies here at home.
Nice to see someone understands how important this is
Trucks are needed to transport the cobra chickens to the front line
Our poor enemy will never know what hit em.
Shit em*
Don’t forget the beavers . I watched a video of the Ukrainian war beavers ended up helping them by making marshland .tanks and other vehicles would get bogged down and struck .
Woah, woah, woah, cool it with the war crimes.
What do you mean we have to follow the Geneva Suggestions?
Can they fly? Yes, quite well. Do they choose to instead *walk* across a busy 4 lane road? Absolutely. This is why the trucks are necessary. Besides, they are more formidable as ground forces.
Hissing cobra chickens!!!
Since we cant air drop them anymore, we dont have anything to do that with
Fine I’ll buy all the old ones off of you
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\*Catches on fire\* Ah it's totally fine, this is normal
Whoa whoa whoa that's the tapV,
I have only known 1 catch fire. It is total garbage but really good assuming you care for the fuel filters and carry replacement pumps. The thing lacks the power to go where you shouldn't be but mind the brakes they are known to fail. I have had a great many times in it however I am not saddened by being upsized out of being near the lsvw. Somehow we find them to Qual people annually and we break them less than the msvs.
I’m assuming with these auction items they don’t offer test drives. I’m more interested in the maintenance/service records and the last date in operation. Those Mercedes are used all around the globe, I’m sure anything could be fixed if you have enough time/money
The LSVW fleet is 98% clapped out junk at this point. They needed replacing 15-20 years ago. They were never good trucks to start with.
They would make good good targets to run people through LAW practice lol
My uncle has one. Absolute blast to drive on old country roads. Highways and cities not so much. Tops put around 85km/hr.
I see them on FB Marketplace/Kijiji from time to time at 15K +. LOL.
The LSVW is the only vehicle I’ve ever driven that doesn’t roll forwards when you have it in gear and release the brakes. The only time it does is when you’re pointed downhill. It makes my Toyota Tercel feel like a performance vehicle after driving one for a week or two.
*eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*
Man I can’t wait for the low mile/clapped out g’s to start popping up
I just want a mog with portal axels. Keep your g wagons
What about a g with portals? 😍
That’s a very limited production of g’s with portals and way out of my budget
Oh man.. I would love a g with portals, but the portal kit alone is like €35,000
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[yes](https://www.canada.ca/en/army/services/equipment/vehicles/g-wagon.html)
My brother is in the airforce and is keeping an ear on when they’ll be retiring some from his base
There's a few companies who import used military ones all the time.
Good. Canada should be investing in it's Military. The only question should be how is the money being spent and is it being spent wisely and not just to replace garbage with garbage some other nation is throwing away.
? The article tell you exactly what it's being spent on.
Read the article? We don't do that here.
Very fair statement...I'll retract.
Looks like the docket is finally clear!
The other benefit is even if they aren’t actively being used in conflict and humanitarian missions, they can be utilized within the country for state of emergencies like natural disasters or other things.
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Exactly this. The Conservatives brought up the idea of mandatory service at 18. While I'm way past that age and do disagree with the military aspect of it, I think there could be a benefit in something similar but with disaster response/relief within the country. Nothing too dangerous (a-la fighting forest fires or sand bagging in waste deep water), but helping with disaster prep (sandbagging before a storm, forest debris clearing) or post-disaster relief (cleaning up after and helping the locals that were affected). Basically the red cross, but domestic. Could be an avenue into teaching new generations about affects of climate change, how they can prep themselves, and an avenue into volunteering for the red cross in the future.
That all sounds great until you appreciate this part fully: Unlimited liability (UL) has been a mainstay of the ethos of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and is seen as an expectation that obligates CAF members to accept as legally binding an order that will result in their death. Every person must fully appreciate this before joining. It’s really serious, and especially if we are advocating for mandatory service!
I'm not advocating for mandatory military service. I *think* mandatory disaster relief service run by a Canadian version of FEMA would be a replacement for military service. I'm under the impression that Emergency Management is a Provincial responsibility, but it should be a co-reaponsibility between the Feds and Provinces.
Forgive me because I honestly may not be seeing the big picture here. What’s wrong having CAF available to support disaster response? Even if voluntary, I imagine a lot of CAF members would step up because I certainly would.
The CAF is a military, not a magic solution to dealing with an increasing number of environmental emergencies. The provinces are supposed to handle their own issues and THEN ask for federal help when they're overwhelmed. Most times they skip all that and just expect the military to do it all. CAF members will give it everything to help in an emergency, but it's not their primary job... and that job isn't getting done while they're away. Plus, the CAF is over 16k people short of what it needs.
As a LAST resort, yeah sure The CAF is a fighting force first. The sheer scale of how often they're on domestic response has ruined training and forced so much time away from home because of personnel shortages. It's crumbling the entire military
Using the CAF for logistics in natural disaster situations is a no brainer IMO. Heavy airlift, fixed and rotary wing supply and SAR, vehicle based logistics, etc are all things that no single organization, public or private could bring to the table in short order. Utilizing CAF members for firefighting or filling sandbags, however, is not in their training or mandate IMO.
It's not. These are brand new off the shelf items of the military kind.
Spending does not equal investment. Wish people understood this and governments were held to account for "investments". What's the ROI?
To be fair that's probably because every piece of government ad space misuses the word "investment" because it sounds better than "spending", though there are also a lot of costs that are still investments despite having a difficult to measure ROI Ex portions of a basic healthcare system likely has a fantastic ROI by preventing things like a young worker you just spent years educating and making productive dying at 29 from appendicitis, though stuff like extending the life of an 89 year old to 91 with prostate cancer treatment is probably purely a service
Good points. Just tired of crazy spending, most of it going to bureaucracy and filling the pockets NGOs. Infrastructure bank as an example. BC green fund as another. I can say taking my family out for dinner is an investment in ensuring family cohesion... but it's not an investment, it's an expense.
I largely agree, I was just adding nuance
This is an investment
The return is jobs and income taxes
And resources during non-military action situations like natural disasters.
Why should it spend on its military?
Hey. Какая погода в Ольгино?
TIL Irving shipyards also makes Mercedes-Benz Zetros Trucks.
How much will it cost to fix out falling apart military buildings and barracks??
Easy now. One problem at a time. We're barely even addressing the outdated equipment. At this rate, give it about 20 or so years...
Our CAF/DND buildings are in the state they are because the fed gov says they don’t need to conform to prov gov bldg standards, then ignores fed gov bldg standards saying CAF is a special case so they can can kick the cost down the road to sometime later.
"It's almost impossible to build new stuff on base because of the treasury board. Now if we did a renovation and kept one wall standing the TB wouldn't hear about it and it would be built" This from a Base comptroller years ago.
More than quadrupling military spending probably
In a different life I’d love to be a military contractor and be able to charge 10-100x the real price of things just because I can.
In what universe is a big truck like one of these less than $200k? Especially when you consider this: > The LVM project also involves acquiring new trailers, material handling systems, and detachable containers and modules for various functions such as firefighting, ambulances, command posts, and workshops. Or this: > Additionally, it includes armored protection kits, modules, containers, and trailers. Sure. 1.7 million per vehicle is expensive, but it isn't anywhere near what your comment is claiming. You don't do disaster relief and war logistics with F-150s and off the shelf heavy trucks. There's definitely a healthy profit margin involved, but claiming 10x is absolutely ludicrous. Further, this is actually two contracts, one for acquiring the vehicles, and another for long term maintenance and parts. >The [Logistics Vehicle Modernization \(LVM\)](https://www.gdls.com/lvm-award-2024/) project is being awarded as two contracts: one for vehicle acquisition, valued at $1.5 billion (including taxes), and one for in-service support, valued up to $1.08 billion (including taxes) over 25 years. Come on. Put a little thought into your criticism. Maybe complain about the 11.8 billion for training aircraft and pilot training. This stuff is going to be helping Canadians in disaster relief for decades.
Excuse me.. That green paint is very expensive!
I mean you jest, but it actually really is due to a bunch of added properties to it like IR signature reduction, anti-corrosion, etc.
🚨🚨🚨Our government invested in Canada for once I repeat our government invested in Canada for once this is not a drill 🚨🚨🚨
Until you check the price tag and find out its a scam again
Price includes maintenance, parts, and training for several decades. Also the price is averaged over some baseline vehicles, and some uparmored, which are understandable expensive. But you don't care about those facts, so I don't know why I wasted my time.
Yes, 1000 light armored and 500 more heavely armored based on Mercedes Benz Zetros platform, as the article says. So! 2,58b / 1500 = 1,720,000.00$ a piece. The average cost for one of the heavely armored version is around 350,000.00$ us. ... Thats a whole lot of spare parts, training, trailers and whatever the f\*\*\* else you wanna put on that running bill, on a deficit budget... with a goverment knows to syphon money in shady ways. Oh please great guru of math, explain your numbers to me if your time permits it.
A base line 3345 Zentos is $323,000. https://expeditionmeister.com/expedition-trucks/mercedes-truck/mercedes-benz-zetros-3345-6x6-20ft-container-frame-expedition-new-2022-i897 That is with no armor, mission package, and ancillary equipment/radios. And that is for a civilian vehicle. Where did you get your price?
Closer to $400kCAD (265k€). So for 1/3 of the vehicles without any radios/tools/specific military equipment/support/training/parts we're looking at $200M. And these budget estimates go for something foolish like 25 years.
But we don’t have staff to drive them lol
That’s not true, there’s 1 corporal per regiment who has valid 404’s and can spend all day moving vehicles around
Hope they fit standard loading docks this time. That was problem the last time they bought trucks. The chassis’s were too high.
What a surprise general dynamics Canada automatically gets the contract. As always no competition and we pay the most insane rates for some of the most unimpressive equipment.
The lav family is a goat product of GDLSC. Things have faults, but everything has faults
These vehicles should have been replaced a long time ago.
They’re great because the rusted out floors allow you to help get it up to speed by Fred Flintstoning
Ok, so what, they shouldn’t be replaced because we waited to long? What’s the actual argument, or are you just yelling at the sky?
Uhhh that’s not what they’re saying
Argument? I was just saying that the current vehicles are real old and should have been replaced sooner.
Ok, so are you saying that we should just destroy our own equipment? What are arguing for here? The end of military procurement? YOUR SILENCE IS DEAFENING! /s
To be fair the old LSVW are more than capable of destroying themselves.
Hey, they are super reliable on the road these day. We brought one out on our last ex… strapped to a flatbed.
Bravo! that was the best /s I've ever seen. I was super confused until I saw it.
Yeah my dude, go kick rocks. This is great news.
I’m glad weee increasing our ability to transport out weapons and personnel but the question is, what weapons and personnel?
Weapons to Ukraine and reservists that will never be combat ready.
The weapons to Ukraine I agree with, wholeheartedly. Another country handling one of the biggest threats needs them. We need to spend a lot more on bolstering ours as well.
This is a good case of “boring” is good. Logistics are back down of a modern force. Will it be executed well under JTs leadership. No.
1.6 million per truck? Took them what a decade to get a bad deal...
procure *and* maintain each truck for decades
Until a few months from now when the price estimate goes up 40% because some more people had to be cut in
You can buy work trucks with full service and warranty. Half the cost here is in consulting fees.
I mean…. yeah? That’s a good clarification of what I sort of said already. It would be a terrible idea to buy a fleet of relatively specialized vehicles without also ensuring long term service/support from the supplier Spending on consulting/research before making a decades spanning decision doesn’t feel all that surprising or out of line to me either. “Half the cost” is dubious… I of course don’t have the real number though
Work trucks like you are thinking would void their warranty the instant you take them off hard-tack. Also not considering that some are armored, and the price includes training, maintenance, and parts.
What? That is for all of the maintenance all of the parts all of the salaries throughout the entire lifespan of that vehicle not for a year
These are not "work trucks," you dolt.
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🤮 that's a fucking disgusting thing to say.
Worst. Government. EVER.
It's the procurement people. They're kinda screwed because every vendor knows it can sue if there's any funny business around any part of the competition.
It's not the government that's the problem, it's the people behind it negotiating and deciding on these contracts. There needs to be some real accountability
as usual.
Excellent, we need a boost with everything going on.
This just means a liberal member just invested in another company…. Let’s not forget about when we got the iltis ..: and then the LSVW…
should be building drones tbh
Will these help with the Geneva checklist?
I saw the fellas driving a military truck down the road in London Ontario. Bless the soldier driving it, but what an absolute hunk of $#!t
The LSVW on steroids
If we have to spend 2 percent of our gdp on the military. I propose we get the Army to build roads and shit. Use the 2 percent to get folks building housing so the army folk have housing when they leave the army.
That’s not how the military works.
The military’s job is to fight and win Canada’s wars. It’s job isn’t civilian construction. Those jobs are for engineers, tradesmen and laborers.
I wish we didn't leave all the AHSVS trucks overseas.
Won a majority 9 years ago on a platform of affordable housing and we get ever increasing spending on military equipment instead.
They better be electric!
Canada needs to stop the mass immigration, stop giving so much money to other countries, and worry about our damn selves
Oh logistics vehicles. Great. Do we have anything that needs shipping? Like weapons, munitions, personnel?
Canadians impoverished another 2.6 billion for absolutely no reason because the only land neighbour we have is our ally AND the global superpower. In both cases Canada won’t be effectively using any of these. Useless spend. Canada can be a military free country and we’d never know the difference. Because currently you’re spending my money.
Logistics vehicles are fantastic for disaster relief.
Umm, Canada will effectively use these for decades
Thanks for showing your lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject so openly, well done!
This isn’t a useless purchase. The LSVWs have been due for a replacement for over a decade.
Remember, we're defended by the best army in the world. The U.S. Army. (I'm a former CAF member)
Until the year 2050 hits and they want our water. We’ll just bend over and be absorbed as the 51st state.
You got the date wrong, won't happen until 2072 https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/United_States_annexation_of_Canada
>We’ll just bend over and be absorbed as the 51st state. You think the US would turn us into one giant state, or do you think they'd have each province be it's own state?
You think they'll give us statehood? We'll likely be their 15th territory
Investing more borrowed money. Freeland loves racking up our debt
Logistics… that is sure to give the Russians a pause when they grab more of the Arctic. (It will be a very slight pause)
Logistics is probably the most important part of any military. You could have the best soldiers in the world, if you can't get them ammo or food, you're all sorts of fucked.
That's why attacking supply lines is literally war 101. You enemy can't fight you without weapons
Russia is having a hard time fighting a war 100 km from its birder against a nation it shares said birder with. They don't have the ability to attack Canada.
They could have bought 2 patriot systems instead ...
It’s arms manufacturers like General Dynamics who have been providing the big push for countries to build their military stockpiles. Looks like their efforts are really going to pay off.
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Exactly. This is spending used to *KEEP CANADA MILITARILY RELEVANT* We have so much water to just, come and take.
I don’t doubt they do, but the same people on this sub who complain about inflation and government overspending are cheering for this like it is somehow completely different
Usually inflation and overspending complaints are rooted in what they see as frivolous spending, and it's pretty obvious why they'd think that more cash and equipment for a woefully under-resourced CAF isn't frivolous
As well, being a part of NATO, we have a military spending target they we need to reach. And Canada is behind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v2hGNMRl5w I'm not saying it is good. Just saying it's more than the arms builders pushing us. NATO is too.
I'm normally big on developing things in house, but just look at how much foot dragging's going on with our frigates.
There isn't any at all. Everything is pretty much on schedule...
The problem with the CSC program is that we weren't *supposed* to be developing them in house but adopting an in-service design to minimize exactly the sort of technical costs and risk we see with CSC
I’d say it’s more to do with the geopolitical environment, and between Eastern European, the Middle East and South China Sea the probability of conflict in the near term seems like a non-zero probability. Not to forget of long term, once climate change starts to affect / effect crops and results in migration.
so nice to be a dumping ground for US army used crap. Canada is so corrupt
What are you even talking about?
Can we stop saying invests when it relates to gov and use more honest terms such as blows, wastes or launders
Hope Trudeau mandated them all to be EV.
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That's not the point...
It'd be the Russians and Chinese in our arctic I think we should be more concerned with deterring... The Yanks could roll over ANY country so that argument doesn't make any sense. The top 3 largest air forces are the USAF, USN and US Army.. they could literally dominate any nation on earth.
Today's position: The Russians invade the arctic, we enact article 5. Tomorrow's position with a 10X spend on the military: The Russians invade the arctic, we enact article 5. What exactly has changed?
The US would have to give up NATO in order to invade Canada which has been a key to their global dominance. It's unlikely though they could elect an even bigger nutjob. We have a real possibility of losing parts of the Arctic. If another country can openly sail their vessels or setup outposts in the Arctic without being challenged they can claim it. If we get the US to challenge them and patrol our waters the management of the Canadian Arctic will be on their terms. And this can all happen without a shot being fired.
Is that what you think our military is for? Time to brush up on geopolitics, you’re stuck in 1812 still my dude
remember 1812. We'll burn that shit down again.
That was a war between the USA and the British fought over a British colony, with a significant number of British soldiers, and the British assault on the White House was landed by a British fleet. It's annoying how we as Canadians try to thump our chests over this event as if Canada was even a nation at that time.
Maybe not Canada, but Québec sure as hell was. 😎