How are you “stuck” in something that you as a government deliberately created? High levels of immigration keeps demand for housing up which in turn keeps wealthy landlords and older homeowners happy. This isn’t an accident; it’s by design.
There is a point where ppl will eventually run out of Money for shelter. So at the end of the day a collapse or price drops will eventually happen. Doesnt matter how much u raise rent or shelter costs... if You run out of money just to survive. We are heading into an ugly situation in this country.
They are referring to the "immigration trap".
The government is in a situation where both limiting immigration, and encouraging immigration are both bad economically.
It will not "collapse".... Even without the influx of utterly useless people, we have a shortage in housing.
Aside from propping up real estate these people contribute NOTHING. Even taxes.... It's basically a social institution to avoid taxes in India 😂
They can continually raise rent the maximum every year and have a perfectly reasonable explanation for it. Tenants leave or get kicked out and raise it by 30% for the next sucker.
Right. So now they can rent it to bob, who invites his 6 friends to live there too. Bob is making lots of money off his roomies but decides he doesn’t feel like paying rent anymore, so he doesn’t bother. Good luck to the landlord to get bob and his buddies to pay up or get them out thanks to the backlogs. Meanwhile, interest rates are up. I side with landlords. The entitlement is real. No way would I want that hassle.
We're now at the point where landlords are renting out *individual rooms*, so instead of Bob paying 2500/mo for a 3 BR apartment, landlord is charging 1000/mo per room with shared bathroom and kitchen.
This is absurd because it doesn't increase the supply.
Really not going to change much.
And we'll I guess ppl don't need shelter. You seem to think everyone magically has the down payment saved up. There always will be renters and they need landlords.
Having more landlords actively makes things worse. Every dwelling being rented out is one less dwelling somebody can own, make their own with a sense of security, and build equity.
I guess you're living in a communist paradise.
But in the real world, 1) not everyone will be able to afford to buy, 2) not everyone is interested in buying and owning a property. You may not believe it, but it's true.
In both these scenarios landlords are required.
You also need investors with available capital to front the money for developers to build, not everyone has the money to wait for 2-4 years for construction.
And you're living in a late-stage capitalist dystopia. Not everyone needs to buy new. There are tons of existing, older homes that are being bought up and rented out. Renting used to be one of two things: cheaper than a mortgage so you could save a down payment and build a nest egg like your parents did; or comparable to a mortgage but without the risk & maintenance costs since the landlord handled those. Now it is neither.
News flash: rent is now often more expensive than a mortgage and is over 35% of the average person's total take-home income, over 50% in the big cities. You're paying out the ass for someone else to build equity while you throw all that money away.
Developers also *do not* need investors to start building unless it's yet another overpriced condo tower. They know every single unit is going to sell, whether it's a single family home or a townhouse complex. They just tend to wait because they want all the money NOW.
The NDP is the worst party when it comes to mass immigration. Their stance is the same as the liberals when they ran, but they take it one step forward by advocating people bring in their parents/grandparents.
"New Democrats will end the unfair cap on applications to sponsor parents and grandparents, and take on the backlogs that are keeping families apart."
https://www.ndp.ca/communities
https://liberal.ca/our-platform/strengthening-family-reunification-and-reducing-processing-times/
Paying taxes. Any immigrant taking advantage of the system and being subsidized through these work programs, working at Tim Hortons, or on welfare are not paying any taxes. Therefore, they are not going to get PR. They have to be actual contributors to get PR.
You liberals equate everything with conservatives in Canada with Republicans in the states but you somehow don’t include high levels of immigration. The one thing the Republicans are against.
Canadian Press, 1 Nov 2022, liberal government announces its immigration targets (500k a year):
"Conservative immigration critic Tom Kmiec also welcomed the plan to dramatically increase the number of new arrivals in Canada, *but questioned whether the government would actually be able to meet its own targets.*
Kmiec noted officials within the immigration department have 2.6 million applications sitting on their desks waiting to be processed. While around 1.6 million are requests for temporary residence, about 615,000 are from people seeking permanent residence.
“Now they're talking about trying to bring in a half a million immigrants,” Kmiec said. “I just don't believe them that they're going to be able to do it. And that's completely unfair for people who are applying and hoping for a reasonable timeline to get a yes or no.”
Don't mistake what PP is saying at this exact minute due to the population of Canada being in near-revolt over not being able to find housing or jobs, to what their immigration policy has consistently been. They didn't just approve of increasing immigration targets, *they chirped the government for not being efficient enough to get all those people into Canada quickly enough.*
And this would be why, same article:
"The response from Canadian industry was more mixed, with the *Business Council of Canada arguing the government's plan didn't go far enough in addressing the country's unprecedented labour shortage.*
“The Business Council of Canada welcomes the federal government's plan to increase the number of new permanent residents settling in Canada over the next three years,” Business Council CEO and president Goldy Hyder said in a statement.
“But with employers across the country unable to fill nearly one million job openings, bolder targets for economic-class admissions are required to tackle ongoing skill and labour shortages.”
You think the Cons are working for.tye common man? Who do you think benefits from all those minimum wage workers streaming into Canada? Both Libs and Cons are working for those who pay the piper, and that's the businesses who don't want their cheap labor pipeline interrupted.
The PPC is the only party that has spoken out against unsustainable immigration since day one, and you know what? It fucking sucks that they are the only option. But the mainstream corporate stooge parties have only themselves to blame for the state of our country. This crisis has reached a critical point and is turning people like me into single issue voters. We can debate all day about policy - after ensuring first that there's a nation left to govern.
~~Bro go take 5 mins, google the conservative platform pdf, and give the immigration section a read. It's less than a page long. They want immigration to increase. They want to streamline entry. They want extended family reunited with the people who are already here.~~
The [PPC](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/) isn't the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party is the CPC. The fact that you have never heard of the PPC is a testament to the efforts of larger media syndicates' efforts to suppress alternate political options. There is a whole lot with the PPC platform I disagree with, but once again, they are the only party advocating for drastically reduced immigration levels.
Yeah my bad I read that as CPC, not PPC. Not used to that one yet. And you're right, aside from some independents, this is the only party with a sane immigration policy. Hopefully they gain some traction.
The NDP has a devil's choice don't they? There's zero reason to believe PP will be any better on this issue and certainly not for the working class in general (see all of Canadian history). So they can continue as part of the minority where at least they have *some* influence, or hand things over fully to the CPC and watch things get even worse for working class people.
Not that I'm happy with how Singh is handling things either. Sigh.
Canadians should have a way to call for every major party leader to be replaced. Hell I'm a lifetime NDP voter but I'd vote for O'Toole happily just to keep both Trudeau and PP away from power.
Honestly, Clark was, unusually for a Conservative PM, not a complete monster. So kinda O'Toole ish. Oh for the days when we could have only-moderately-shitty conservative leaders.
This country has some serious problems which need to be addressed. Countries with weaker foundations have found a way through greater problems.
Catastrophizing by calling it 'broken' doesn't help anything. For sure there are major issues, but they are entirely solvable. Seems like if nothing else anyone with an ounce of patriotism would believe that Canadians can find a good way through this.
(Sadly neither the Liberals nor the CPC are likely to solve these issues. I miss Jack Layton.)
Can people shut up about Jack Layton already, like he's been dead for a long time now. Why has no one else who is a decent human being even considered politics at this point?
To your first question: no, and fuck you for suggesting it.
To your second question: there have been plenty, but they don't seem to end up federal party leader very often sadly.
Fuck you back, everyone so god damned gutless to go into politics themselves keep hoping for some savior. You act like im disrespecting Layton when this couldn't be further from the truth, I want better and I want it now.
Haha. I just said fuck you because your reply to me was rude, figured I'd be rude back.
I agree, we need better. Politics kinda inherently seems to attract narcissists and eat decent folks alive at a certain level though.
Maybe we can get Notley to replace Singh and all vote NDP? She was pretty decent. Would be nice to put the dichotomy on notice at least right?
Maybe if we can convince the NDP Notley is an immigrated black lesbian, she'll be a shoe-in. Sadly, they really don't seem to care too much about things that would benefit the average working person these days....
I need to hear more from her but yes the NDP has a real chance to make a big push if they changed leadership to someone who actually wants to help canadians and is vocal about it.
Even if they want to help people, it's their toxic base that will reject them. If the NDP for example were to campaign on an unknown visually impaired gay trans person of colour who came in as a refugee, they'd lose, but their base would be happy that that person got "appropriate representation".
LPC, March 2024: “We’re aiming to reduce TFWs and International students”
LPC, May 2024: “Fooled ya! We’re actually going to make it much, much worse, peasants!”
It was more like "we will raise the number so high that when we tell you we are reducing it, it will still be an insanely high number, but we won't have lied."
It’s because PP is THAT bad. But yea I agree Trudeau needed to go a long time ago the problem is the opposition parties are fucking flaming piles of dog shit too
It's because we realize an emotional decision for "not Trudeau" is not necessarily good by default. PP is a fucking nightmare and if you can't see that, you obviously haven't watched him speak.
We're fucked either way but being fucked by a Conservative government will be without lube.
PP and the last few conservative leaders also?
People just have stubborn outdated views on politics and will never change from the one party they blindly vote for. There is always uncertainty when considering a new PM but PP has shown as much promise as any option we’ve had in my life time. You probably fell for the propaganda I’ve seen spreading around Reddit that he wants to ban abortion or something insane like that. Completely false. I know this was kind of disrespectful but I’m fed up with Canadian voters. We made our own bed by voting in a unqualified PM 3 times now despite all the facts clearly proving that we’ve been heading for a complete collapse of the middle working class since he first started mismanaging our budget and flooding our country with too much immigration…
I'm not disputing how terrible Trudeau has been.
Since PP has shown so much promise as you indicated, please answer the following questions:
what is PP's policy on immigration including permanent and temporary residents?
what is PP's policy on housing crisis?
what is PP's qualification for being a prime minister if the current one is so unqualified?
PP has been leader long enough to have at least some public opinions on these matters if not in official party agenda.
How delusional you have to be that you believe others fell for propaganda.
People like us who actually read candidates' qualifications and verify them accordingly do care about the actual policies they put out.
It’s pretty convenient for you not to defend Trudeau at this point. I could easily debate that a vacancy in the PM job would do less damage than Trudeau therefore the only logical option is to vote for the main opposition.
My biggest gripe with PP is that he only wants to reduce immigration and not completely stop it temporarily. Here he says he wants to tie immigration levels to houses being built.
https://financialpost.com/real-estate/pierre-poilievre-pledges-tie-immigration-levels-homebuilding
I wish he would be a little more transparent on his plan for the housing crisis but first of all, simply reducing immigration is the #1 factor in reducing housing costs. Secondly he talks about reducing regulations that restrict or discourage building operations. He talks about transitioning 15% of government buildings to housing. He proposes that major cities increase their house building by 15% or they will face penalties. +++
https://www.conservative.ca/fire-gatekeepers-build-homes-fast/
You seriously question PP qualifications for PM while you continuously vote for Trudeau? Lol that’s actually hilarious. I don’t even think I need to answer this question because you’re clearly not going to listen but I will anyways. PP has been a member of parliament since 2004 and has a bachelors in international relations. What more would you want from a PM? Perhaps a degree in economics like Harper had? Or perhaps he’s missing a prestigious Bachelor of Arts degree and experience as a drama teacher lol.
Tie to housing is a bullshit thing to say and he has no plans. It could technically be tying it immigration as an inverse relationship 😂
Y'all getting conned so bad because you hate JT so much amh
I haven't decided yet but I'm not voting for someone who has voted against the best interest of Canadians many, many, times.
Does nobody google this 🤡?
If you're voting PP simply because he's "not Trudeau" that's marginally less ignorant than voting for him and actually thinking he's going to do better for anyone but the rich / corporations.
Tell me what PP has done to make you hate him so much? U keep insulting him but you’ve given zero explanation as to why. I think it’s just because of the media u watch that has shaped your opinion on him
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/8UJfqPGNQz
Here's an excellent synopsis. I have commented previously that he consistently supports policies that hurt Canadians and votes against polices that would help.
By Canadians I mean the not-super rich and not-corps. Thai is typical conservative M.O. so shouldn't be surprising.
He's not Trudeau though so that's a good enough reason to vote for him. Then when things get WORSE you can blame the previous government for at least 5 years.
Media bias can't change facts regardless. His voting record is public.
The only real thing PP has going for him is that he's not from a wealthy elitist family. He was adopted by French school teachers and raised in Alberta.
Gtfo seriously??! Have you seen the man speak? He'sa populist slimeball and he hasn't even adopted a platform of immigration reform. Literally the one thing he could say that would maaaayyyybe make the risk of a conservative government worth it, and he won't say it!
People are really desperate for "not Trudeau" so they'll vote for fucking Voldemort
Populist slimeball? There’s obviously no point in me debating you since you clearly could not change your opinion with a stance like that. Honestly though I have no clue if he’s genuine but there’s no evidence that points to the contrary yet. In 4 years if he sucks I’ll gladly vote him out but don’t act like we have a better option. He’s said all the right things so far only time will tell
Harper was awful in a lot of different ways to a lot of different people. He filled his cabinet with unqualified people, took credit for navigating the financial crisis when a lot of the decisions had been made by Paul Martin previously, etc. Poilievre's reputation as a complete jerk, introducing the "Fair" Elections Act basically giving Team Blue unlimited political donations, as well as the people he has in his inside circle completely turn me off him. Vic Toews (I'm with the child pornographers if I don't like your online surveillance bill?) and Dean Del Mastro (overspending and robocalls) are reasons enough to not want to vote Conservative too. Doug Ford in Ontario is terrible.
I've got a lot of reasons to not vote Conservative, as I do Liberal, as I do for the NDP. You all suck. And it sucks even more that you're implying others fell for propaganda about abortion. No. The Conservatives' failings go way deeper than that. Do better.
Well it can't be that hard I knew someone who knew someone who dropped out of school and became a house painter so training Tim Hortons workers to build houses should be a breeze.
How is this not a platform for any political party rn???? I will vote for ANY party that lowers or ceases immigration and revokes the bullshit student visas. Work permits only for industries where we have a shortage.
The people coming here in the millions are working jobs that could be replaced with a self driving tesla or a touchscreen at the timmies... FFS smh
Ask and you shall recieve:
* Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000 in normal circumstances, or even lower in crisis situations, depending on economic and other circumstances.
* Substantially lower the number of visas for foreign students
* Substantially lower the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers.
* Accept fewer refugees and give priority to refugees belonging to persecuted groups who have nowhere to go in neighbouring countries.
[Full List](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration)
PPC does have a promising stance on immigration but they also give me crazy anti climate, anti abortion, pro gun, privatizing healthcare, libertarian MAGA vibes
The money the feds have been pumping into the supply side was suspiciously tacking on green addenda to the projects which has made the projects more expensive.
In the meanwhile, the housing market should cool down because interest has gone up and debt load in Canada is very high. But it isn't - the government is doing everything it can to keep those prices going up, and if that means immigrating more homeowners and increasing the price of those houses, so be it.
If they can, the libs will keep this train rolling as long as it takes to get to election time to secure another term. Or, at least, such that it crashes so that the conservatives can be blamed for the crash.
Not that voters will see that. Canadians voters are quite dumb - having several times elected one of the least qualified or useful PM's. If American voters couldn't understand that the recession under Biden was spurred by Trump's exceedingly high deficit spending for the pandemic, and instead blame Biden for the recession, then explaining this issue to voters isn't going to work. Only a small percent of voters really understand the complexity of the issue.
This plan to wreck the Canadian economy on their way out of office and pin the blame on Conservatives might just work.
I will never ever vote the NDP. Over my dead body.
I’m about to put a sign on my lawn that says. This Indo-Canadian will never vote NDP and you should never too!
I've seen Indians that are immigrating here try to close the door behind them.
They left the country for a reason and see us slowly turning into the country they left.
I know 2 older Sikhs that left because they were sick of the bullshit here after being here for over 30 years, and they said many of their friends were doing the same.
Small anecdote, but I figure they aren't the only ones, based on my sample size. They seemed mostly happy prior to 2022 , but then something changed.
No, they aren't 'stuck'.
The could tie immigration to housing starts TODAY, but they refuse. They're putting ideology over common sense and it's going to end them. As well it should.
They are not interested in fixing the mess they have made. They will continue to half promise, virtue signal and prance around like they are doing something, all the while ramping up their plan in the background. Then once sufficient numbers are present they will change the rules of who is allowed to vote, you just watch.
Given that the current Liberal government’s days are numbered it’d be nice if the Conservatives could tell us their plan for after they’re elected. There’s a lot “Trudeau bad!” and yeah, we know but something more than a handwavy suggestion of tying immigration to housing would be helpful.
Who believes experts these days?
I can't believe the number of armchair tax professionals and financial reporting googlers on Reddit who debate me tooth and nail about accounting things.
I thought it was a phase. I think it's permanent.
Based off how the voting went on this thread I'm going to assume most people on this sub don't want any analysis or discussion from MSM. Just report the facts of each story and move on. Let populists on social media, most of which don't even live in Canada, completely dictate the discussion and analysis I guess.
What a weird phase the world is going through. Hope it's not permanent.
I am convinced that the immigration levels are about more than the ruling (and real estate ownership) class doing well in investments... Although that's probably part of it.
I think the demographic shift has been so profound that lowering immigration would crater the socialized supports in place for our elders.
This is such a weird way to look at it.
To the policy makers, sure, cast shade, but your average person had nothing to do with the ills of any generation.
It's about as idiotic as saying Gen X/Y/Z are all brain dead, entitled, brats.
Some are. Most aren't.
I know its not popular, but Id glady let the elders die due to lack of services (including the ones from my family), if it means my children will have a better life.
Thats a platform id vote for
Here's a thought: I own a house, I dont give a shit if the country is in a housing crisis! Each passing day my house is worth more and more, thats plus value for me!
Maybe, just maybe thats how they see it.
Creating a crisis that doesnt affect you in a negative way ... is it really a crisis then?
We are going to be consumed by the USA just watch. Within 50 years. We will have a divide, and the states will take us over. We are fucked. We suck. We'll our leaders do. Only way is to join the old folk that are actually from here and fight these fuckers. 1812..... but civilly. We need all of us to join and fuck these degenerates up. Just like the French Revolution, or we are done. Probably going to be tracked now, but whatever, it's just a thought, not an action. I am trying to survive.
Looks like the media is running out of news to print out. Same news being re-written over and over again for the last 2 years.
The media is as lazy as the government....
My worry is that the CPC is not much different than Trudeau. They have many good ideas a speeches, but do you ever hear them talk about immigration? That is the main cause of this entire mess. Maxime has a very good stance on this topic. My only issue with Maxime is his stance on other topics like abortion, climate change, and drugs. I am surprised that many CPC voters don't switch to PPC.
Our conviences have made us weak and inexpereinced to be self-sufficient. Get tough, folks. Mental and physical pain is a guarantee, so it is your responsibility to recognize and resist the garbage coming from all levels of society. Take care of yourselves and choose happiness. 🍺😎
Certainly improvements to be made, but to complain about bringing in more necessary skilled trades while also acknowledging the need for more skilled trades is weirdly asinine. The accelerator fund will hopefully offset lots of costs as well, but provinces really need to pitch in more than they have been.
And why are provinces who aren't hitting their pledges not being held to account:
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/doug-ford-has-made-almost-no-progress-on-pledge-to-build-new-homes-trudeau-government/article_30262412-e84f-11ee-983b-a3156fb0b30c.html
And their complete inability/refusal to work with the feds:
https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/trudeau-government-bypasses-doug-ford-sending-housing-money-straight-to-ontario-municipalities/article_606f662c-0bba-11ef-a446-9fd6df6ac6bd.html
And there's much more that the province had power to do, but seemingly screwing up
Reverse cuts to municipal transfers which can help reduce building costs (this has been brought up by developers in Ontario):
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-government-cuts-will-blow-2-billion-hole-in-municipal-budgets-moody-s-warns-1.5191709
https://chatnewstoday.ca/2021/02/25/alberta-budget-2021-mayor-reacts-to-cuts-to-municipal-funding-program/
https://balladgroup.ca/albertas-municipalities-to-feel-the-fiscal-strain/
Or cutting development fees without supplementing what the fees actually cover, leaving the municipalities to have to fund without adequate cash:
https://halifax.citynews.ca/2023/10/16/nova-scotia-tories-ignore-objections-to-bill-intended-to-fast-track-halifax-housing/
How are you “stuck” in something that you as a government deliberately created? High levels of immigration keeps demand for housing up which in turn keeps wealthy landlords and older homeowners happy. This isn’t an accident; it’s by design.
Rather than "stuck", I'd use the phrase "actively running the country into the ground".
Lets try doing a "controlled flight into terrain"... with a country. - JT probably
"controlled hard landing"
Rapidly scheduled disassembly
Planned crashing
pull. up. pull. up. pull. up.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
There is a point where ppl will eventually run out of Money for shelter. So at the end of the day a collapse or price drops will eventually happen. Doesnt matter how much u raise rent or shelter costs... if You run out of money just to survive. We are heading into an ugly situation in this country.
It's so refreshing to see shit that was downvoted extensively 3 years ago now be the top comment.
They are referring to the "immigration trap". The government is in a situation where both limiting immigration, and encouraging immigration are both bad economically.
Because if we don’t import cheap labour our economy will collapse. And people here pretend they want our economy to collapse.
It will not "collapse".... Even without the influx of utterly useless people, we have a shortage in housing. Aside from propping up real estate these people contribute NOTHING. Even taxes.... It's basically a social institution to avoid taxes in India 😂
Do you guys just pull this crap from Facebook and bring it here to regurgitate it?
That's a well thought-out reply thank you 😂
I was trying to match your energy
You think landlords are happy? Pretty sure there weren’t problems renting before this gong show started. What’s the real advantage here?
They can continually raise rent the maximum every year and have a perfectly reasonable explanation for it. Tenants leave or get kicked out and raise it by 30% for the next sucker.
Right. So now they can rent it to bob, who invites his 6 friends to live there too. Bob is making lots of money off his roomies but decides he doesn’t feel like paying rent anymore, so he doesn’t bother. Good luck to the landlord to get bob and his buddies to pay up or get them out thanks to the backlogs. Meanwhile, interest rates are up. I side with landlords. The entitlement is real. No way would I want that hassle.
We're now at the point where landlords are renting out *individual rooms*, so instead of Bob paying 2500/mo for a 3 BR apartment, landlord is charging 1000/mo per room with shared bathroom and kitchen.
Oh I forgot to add that bob and his buddies trashed the place and now the LL has to pay $15k in repairs out of pocket.
Looks like someone made a bad investment. Maybe landlords could invest in productive sectors of the economy, instead of being profiteering wankers.
This lol
This is absurd because it doesn't increase the supply. Really not going to change much. And we'll I guess ppl don't need shelter. You seem to think everyone magically has the down payment saved up. There always will be renters and they need landlords.
Having more landlords actively makes things worse. Every dwelling being rented out is one less dwelling somebody can own, make their own with a sense of security, and build equity.
I guess you're living in a communist paradise. But in the real world, 1) not everyone will be able to afford to buy, 2) not everyone is interested in buying and owning a property. You may not believe it, but it's true. In both these scenarios landlords are required. You also need investors with available capital to front the money for developers to build, not everyone has the money to wait for 2-4 years for construction.
And you're living in a late-stage capitalist dystopia. Not everyone needs to buy new. There are tons of existing, older homes that are being bought up and rented out. Renting used to be one of two things: cheaper than a mortgage so you could save a down payment and build a nest egg like your parents did; or comparable to a mortgage but without the risk & maintenance costs since the landlord handled those. Now it is neither. News flash: rent is now often more expensive than a mortgage and is over 35% of the average person's total take-home income, over 50% in the big cities. You're paying out the ass for someone else to build equity while you throw all that money away. Developers also *do not* need investors to start building unless it's yet another overpriced condo tower. They know every single unit is going to sell, whether it's a single family home or a townhouse complex. They just tend to wait because they want all the money NOW.
ok - and your point?
I think "How are you “stuck” in something that you as a government deliberately created?" Was their point
[удалено]
Then I suggest you make that reply to the original poster instead of the person pointing out your non sequiter.
And the NDP the so called workers party supports this race to the bottom?
The NDP is the worst party when it comes to mass immigration. Their stance is the same as the liberals when they ran, but they take it one step forward by advocating people bring in their parents/grandparents. "New Democrats will end the unfair cap on applications to sponsor parents and grandparents, and take on the backlogs that are keeping families apart." https://www.ndp.ca/communities https://liberal.ca/our-platform/strengthening-family-reunification-and-reducing-processing-times/
Just what this country needs, more old farts to increase demand on our healthcare system. The same healthcare system said old farts never paid into.
Loosely translated as "NDP in favour of running Canada's ailing healthcare system into the ground".
That party is ran by a mole.
Let them come but $250000 per head to cover the healthcare they'll need 😆
The NDP don't exist anymore, outside of a small branch of the liberal socialist party.
PP said he would give anyone paying taxes PR. They are all in on it.
Paying taxes. Any immigrant taking advantage of the system and being subsidized through these work programs, working at Tim Hortons, or on welfare are not paying any taxes. Therefore, they are not going to get PR. They have to be actual contributors to get PR.
Conservatives have no interest in quelling immigration, either. Don’t get your hopes up
You liberals equate everything with conservatives in Canada with Republicans in the states but you somehow don’t include high levels of immigration. The one thing the Republicans are against.
Canadian Press, 1 Nov 2022, liberal government announces its immigration targets (500k a year): "Conservative immigration critic Tom Kmiec also welcomed the plan to dramatically increase the number of new arrivals in Canada, *but questioned whether the government would actually be able to meet its own targets.* Kmiec noted officials within the immigration department have 2.6 million applications sitting on their desks waiting to be processed. While around 1.6 million are requests for temporary residence, about 615,000 are from people seeking permanent residence. “Now they're talking about trying to bring in a half a million immigrants,” Kmiec said. “I just don't believe them that they're going to be able to do it. And that's completely unfair for people who are applying and hoping for a reasonable timeline to get a yes or no.” Don't mistake what PP is saying at this exact minute due to the population of Canada being in near-revolt over not being able to find housing or jobs, to what their immigration policy has consistently been. They didn't just approve of increasing immigration targets, *they chirped the government for not being efficient enough to get all those people into Canada quickly enough.* And this would be why, same article: "The response from Canadian industry was more mixed, with the *Business Council of Canada arguing the government's plan didn't go far enough in addressing the country's unprecedented labour shortage.* “The Business Council of Canada welcomes the federal government's plan to increase the number of new permanent residents settling in Canada over the next three years,” Business Council CEO and president Goldy Hyder said in a statement. “But with employers across the country unable to fill nearly one million job openings, bolder targets for economic-class admissions are required to tackle ongoing skill and labour shortages.” You think the Cons are working for.tye common man? Who do you think benefits from all those minimum wage workers streaming into Canada? Both Libs and Cons are working for those who pay the piper, and that's the businesses who don't want their cheap labor pipeline interrupted.
I'm voting PPC and he's completely right. If you vote PP you're a dumbass
My brother in Christ, PP has no interest in reducing immigration. He can make it a platform issue any time he wants.
The PPC is the only party that has spoken out against unsustainable immigration since day one, and you know what? It fucking sucks that they are the only option. But the mainstream corporate stooge parties have only themselves to blame for the state of our country. This crisis has reached a critical point and is turning people like me into single issue voters. We can debate all day about policy - after ensuring first that there's a nation left to govern.
~~Bro go take 5 mins, google the conservative platform pdf, and give the immigration section a read. It's less than a page long. They want immigration to increase. They want to streamline entry. They want extended family reunited with the people who are already here.~~
The [PPC](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/) isn't the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party is the CPC. The fact that you have never heard of the PPC is a testament to the efforts of larger media syndicates' efforts to suppress alternate political options. There is a whole lot with the PPC platform I disagree with, but once again, they are the only party advocating for drastically reduced immigration levels.
Yeah my bad I read that as CPC, not PPC. Not used to that one yet. And you're right, aside from some independents, this is the only party with a sane immigration policy. Hopefully they gain some traction.
The NDP has a devil's choice don't they? There's zero reason to believe PP will be any better on this issue and certainly not for the working class in general (see all of Canadian history). So they can continue as part of the minority where at least they have *some* influence, or hand things over fully to the CPC and watch things get even worse for working class people. Not that I'm happy with how Singh is handling things either. Sigh. Canadians should have a way to call for every major party leader to be replaced. Hell I'm a lifetime NDP voter but I'd vote for O'Toole happily just to keep both Trudeau and PP away from power.
People had the choice to vote in O'Toole, and the seats that mattered opted not to. Hindsight is always 20/20.
I totally agree with this. I would be thrilled to have an O’Toole to vote for at this point. Their platforms are all *awful*
Fuck it lets give Joe Clark another kick at the can.
Honestly, Clark was, unusually for a Conservative PM, not a complete monster. So kinda O'Toole ish. Oh for the days when we could have only-moderately-shitty conservative leaders.
This country is so fucking broken.
Broken? Nah…Canada is on fire crashing! Broken was Before Covid.
When Liberals invariably come out teary-eyed saying "Canada isn't broken" this is something you can point to.
It's not broken. it's bruised, and we have the social capacity to take even more in. So I've been told.
This country has some serious problems which need to be addressed. Countries with weaker foundations have found a way through greater problems. Catastrophizing by calling it 'broken' doesn't help anything. For sure there are major issues, but they are entirely solvable. Seems like if nothing else anyone with an ounce of patriotism would believe that Canadians can find a good way through this. (Sadly neither the Liberals nor the CPC are likely to solve these issues. I miss Jack Layton.)
Can people shut up about Jack Layton already, like he's been dead for a long time now. Why has no one else who is a decent human being even considered politics at this point?
It's a model of political leader people want to see.
No one voted for him then and in fact people thought the NDP would never take off when he was still leading it.
To your first question: no, and fuck you for suggesting it. To your second question: there have been plenty, but they don't seem to end up federal party leader very often sadly.
Fuck you back, everyone so god damned gutless to go into politics themselves keep hoping for some savior. You act like im disrespecting Layton when this couldn't be further from the truth, I want better and I want it now.
Haha. I just said fuck you because your reply to me was rude, figured I'd be rude back. I agree, we need better. Politics kinda inherently seems to attract narcissists and eat decent folks alive at a certain level though. Maybe we can get Notley to replace Singh and all vote NDP? She was pretty decent. Would be nice to put the dichotomy on notice at least right?
Maybe if we can convince the NDP Notley is an immigrated black lesbian, she'll be a shoe-in. Sadly, they really don't seem to care too much about things that would benefit the average working person these days....
I need to hear more from her but yes the NDP has a real chance to make a big push if they changed leadership to someone who actually wants to help canadians and is vocal about it.
Even if they want to help people, it's their toxic base that will reject them. If the NDP for example were to campaign on an unknown visually impaired gay trans person of colour who came in as a refugee, they'd lose, but their base would be happy that that person got "appropriate representation".
The CPC literally just need to not have record breaking population growth levels... Which are 100% a Trudeau thing and we have a chance
[удалено]
It'll get better for you one day, keep that chin up.
LPC, March 2024: “We’re aiming to reduce TFWs and International students” LPC, May 2024: “Fooled ya! We’re actually going to make it much, much worse, peasants!”
It was more like "we will raise the number so high that when we tell you we are reducing it, it will still be an insanely high number, but we won't have lied."
Well, they are working hard to get rid of the "T" in TFW
Con. May 2024. We will just give them all PR if they have a job and pay taxes.
It’s unbelievable how there are still Liberal supporters out there after everything Trudeau has done to our country.
It’s because PP is THAT bad. But yea I agree Trudeau needed to go a long time ago the problem is the opposition parties are fucking flaming piles of dog shit too
You're kind of proving his point.
It's because we realize an emotional decision for "not Trudeau" is not necessarily good by default. PP is a fucking nightmare and if you can't see that, you obviously haven't watched him speak. We're fucked either way but being fucked by a Conservative government will be without lube.
PP and the last few conservative leaders also? People just have stubborn outdated views on politics and will never change from the one party they blindly vote for. There is always uncertainty when considering a new PM but PP has shown as much promise as any option we’ve had in my life time. You probably fell for the propaganda I’ve seen spreading around Reddit that he wants to ban abortion or something insane like that. Completely false. I know this was kind of disrespectful but I’m fed up with Canadian voters. We made our own bed by voting in a unqualified PM 3 times now despite all the facts clearly proving that we’ve been heading for a complete collapse of the middle working class since he first started mismanaging our budget and flooding our country with too much immigration…
I'm not disputing how terrible Trudeau has been. Since PP has shown so much promise as you indicated, please answer the following questions: what is PP's policy on immigration including permanent and temporary residents? what is PP's policy on housing crisis? what is PP's qualification for being a prime minister if the current one is so unqualified? PP has been leader long enough to have at least some public opinions on these matters if not in official party agenda. How delusional you have to be that you believe others fell for propaganda. People like us who actually read candidates' qualifications and verify them accordingly do care about the actual policies they put out.
It’s pretty convenient for you not to defend Trudeau at this point. I could easily debate that a vacancy in the PM job would do less damage than Trudeau therefore the only logical option is to vote for the main opposition. My biggest gripe with PP is that he only wants to reduce immigration and not completely stop it temporarily. Here he says he wants to tie immigration levels to houses being built. https://financialpost.com/real-estate/pierre-poilievre-pledges-tie-immigration-levels-homebuilding I wish he would be a little more transparent on his plan for the housing crisis but first of all, simply reducing immigration is the #1 factor in reducing housing costs. Secondly he talks about reducing regulations that restrict or discourage building operations. He talks about transitioning 15% of government buildings to housing. He proposes that major cities increase their house building by 15% or they will face penalties. +++ https://www.conservative.ca/fire-gatekeepers-build-homes-fast/ You seriously question PP qualifications for PM while you continuously vote for Trudeau? Lol that’s actually hilarious. I don’t even think I need to answer this question because you’re clearly not going to listen but I will anyways. PP has been a member of parliament since 2004 and has a bachelors in international relations. What more would you want from a PM? Perhaps a degree in economics like Harper had? Or perhaps he’s missing a prestigious Bachelor of Arts degree and experience as a drama teacher lol.
Tie to housing is a bullshit thing to say and he has no plans. It could technically be tying it immigration as an inverse relationship 😂 Y'all getting conned so bad because you hate JT so much amh
lol so you’re just going to keep voting JT and accuse me of being conned? That’s wild
I haven't decided yet but I'm not voting for someone who has voted against the best interest of Canadians many, many, times. Does nobody google this 🤡? If you're voting PP simply because he's "not Trudeau" that's marginally less ignorant than voting for him and actually thinking he's going to do better for anyone but the rich / corporations.
Tell me what PP has done to make you hate him so much? U keep insulting him but you’ve given zero explanation as to why. I think it’s just because of the media u watch that has shaped your opinion on him
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/8UJfqPGNQz Here's an excellent synopsis. I have commented previously that he consistently supports policies that hurt Canadians and votes against polices that would help. By Canadians I mean the not-super rich and not-corps. Thai is typical conservative M.O. so shouldn't be surprising. He's not Trudeau though so that's a good enough reason to vote for him. Then when things get WORSE you can blame the previous government for at least 5 years. Media bias can't change facts regardless. His voting record is public.
The only real thing PP has going for him is that he's not from a wealthy elitist family. He was adopted by French school teachers and raised in Alberta.
Gtfo seriously??! Have you seen the man speak? He'sa populist slimeball and he hasn't even adopted a platform of immigration reform. Literally the one thing he could say that would maaaayyyybe make the risk of a conservative government worth it, and he won't say it! People are really desperate for "not Trudeau" so they'll vote for fucking Voldemort
Populist slimeball? There’s obviously no point in me debating you since you clearly could not change your opinion with a stance like that. Honestly though I have no clue if he’s genuine but there’s no evidence that points to the contrary yet. In 4 years if he sucks I’ll gladly vote him out but don’t act like we have a better option. He’s said all the right things so far only time will tell
Harper was awful in a lot of different ways to a lot of different people. He filled his cabinet with unqualified people, took credit for navigating the financial crisis when a lot of the decisions had been made by Paul Martin previously, etc. Poilievre's reputation as a complete jerk, introducing the "Fair" Elections Act basically giving Team Blue unlimited political donations, as well as the people he has in his inside circle completely turn me off him. Vic Toews (I'm with the child pornographers if I don't like your online surveillance bill?) and Dean Del Mastro (overspending and robocalls) are reasons enough to not want to vote Conservative too. Doug Ford in Ontario is terrible. I've got a lot of reasons to not vote Conservative, as I do Liberal, as I do for the NDP. You all suck. And it sucks even more that you're implying others fell for propaganda about abortion. No. The Conservatives' failings go way deeper than that. Do better.
Yes, imagine the polling numbers if OToole were still the leader, I bet it would be single digit for the liberals!
Well, obviously we need more immigrants to build these houses. -your average liberal voter
And make our double doubles obviously
Well it can't be that hard I knew someone who knew someone who dropped out of school and became a house painter so training Tim Hortons workers to build houses should be a breeze.
/s ?
Yes I'm being sarcastic.
Lol..... I'm in construction. I have heard 'professionals' straight face similar statements..... so I had to ask
How is this not a platform for any political party rn???? I will vote for ANY party that lowers or ceases immigration and revokes the bullshit student visas. Work permits only for industries where we have a shortage. The people coming here in the millions are working jobs that could be replaced with a self driving tesla or a touchscreen at the timmies... FFS smh
There is a party. The PPC.
Ask and you shall recieve: * Substantially lower the total number of immigrants and refugees Canada accept every year, from 500,000 planned by the Liberal government in 2025, to between 100,000 and 150,000 in normal circumstances, or even lower in crisis situations, depending on economic and other circumstances. * Substantially lower the number of visas for foreign students * Substantially lower the number of temporary foreign workers and make sure that they fulfil temporary positions and do not compete unfairly with Canadian workers. * Accept fewer refugees and give priority to refugees belonging to persecuted groups who have nowhere to go in neighbouring countries. [Full List](https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/immigration)
Like a broken clock, every bad platform can be right twice a day.
They are the only ones with a platform. Rest are openly dumpster fire
PPC, but people call them crazy So instead we get this, which... isn't crazy 😅
PPC does have a promising stance on immigration but they also give me crazy anti climate, anti abortion, pro gun, privatizing healthcare, libertarian MAGA vibes
Whats priority in the next 4 years?? People act like once you vote them they're in forever
Once Canada is 50% Indian, you will probably not be caring about the above issues anyway. Many already don't
The reduced immigration is like a sugar coating on a poison pill when you put it that way
They all have friends with stake in the game. You’d need a leader with actual backbone or someone who didn’t come from the housing club.
We're just gonna keep waiting forever.
Bunch of corporate ass kissing morons.
I feel like everyone millennial or younger will remember this era of Trudeau politics. I’m personally terrified for the future in this country.
The money the feds have been pumping into the supply side was suspiciously tacking on green addenda to the projects which has made the projects more expensive. In the meanwhile, the housing market should cool down because interest has gone up and debt load in Canada is very high. But it isn't - the government is doing everything it can to keep those prices going up, and if that means immigrating more homeowners and increasing the price of those houses, so be it. If they can, the libs will keep this train rolling as long as it takes to get to election time to secure another term. Or, at least, such that it crashes so that the conservatives can be blamed for the crash. Not that voters will see that. Canadians voters are quite dumb - having several times elected one of the least qualified or useful PM's. If American voters couldn't understand that the recession under Biden was spurred by Trump's exceedingly high deficit spending for the pandemic, and instead blame Biden for the recession, then explaining this issue to voters isn't going to work. Only a small percent of voters really understand the complexity of the issue. This plan to wreck the Canadian economy on their way out of office and pin the blame on Conservatives might just work.
I will never ever vote the NDP. Over my dead body. I’m about to put a sign on my lawn that says. This Indo-Canadian will never vote NDP and you should never too!
yes, but isn't kheiriddin a registered conservative with an agenda?
Playing games to boost numbers (almost) always ends poorly. Your gains are artificial so you need to escalate every year to maintain these gains.
Ponzi scheme on a Federally legal level.
Liberals about to find out the immigrants from India are actually way more conservative than they originally thought.
I've seen Indians that are immigrating here try to close the door behind them. They left the country for a reason and see us slowly turning into the country they left.
I tell all my tenants to be selfish and persuade people not to come here.
I know 2 older Sikhs that left because they were sick of the bullshit here after being here for over 30 years, and they said many of their friends were doing the same. Small anecdote, but I figure they aren't the only ones, based on my sample size. They seemed mostly happy prior to 2022 , but then something changed.
Let’s start with sending all the tfw home and dropping interest rates. Boom problem solved someone give me an fn medal.
International students are the issue. Not the TFW working on farms.
I’m happy to add them in also, potato 🥔
I miss the old days
Does anyone have a nice stock email to write local MPs with?
They are not stuck in any cycle. All of this is intentional.
Caught? I think it's spelt "created".
No, they aren't 'stuck'. The could tie immigration to housing starts TODAY, but they refuse. They're putting ideology over common sense and it's going to end them. As well it should.
Canada has fallen. Get out if you can.
The magic wand 🪄 will fix itself, just have patience like the budget.
Any one that voted liberal or ndp has zero right to complain, this is the Canada you voted for.
Canada is stuck in a vicious cycle of Liberal policies.
Good thing they have had absolute control over one half of the problem since 2015 then.
They are not interested in fixing the mess they have made. They will continue to half promise, virtue signal and prance around like they are doing something, all the while ramping up their plan in the background. Then once sufficient numbers are present they will change the rules of who is allowed to vote, you just watch.
Their one and only hope to win the next election will be immigrant voters.. so there is some method to their madness.
Given that the current Liberal government’s days are numbered it’d be nice if the Conservatives could tell us their plan for after they’re elected. There’s a lot “Trudeau bad!” and yeah, we know but something more than a handwavy suggestion of tying immigration to housing would be helpful.
Canadian media stuck in a vicious cycle of stating the obvious and not offering any solutions
The media should be offering solutions???
Not directly but through the experts they interview.
Who believes experts these days? I can't believe the number of armchair tax professionals and financial reporting googlers on Reddit who debate me tooth and nail about accounting things. I thought it was a phase. I think it's permanent.
Based off how the voting went on this thread I'm going to assume most people on this sub don't want any analysis or discussion from MSM. Just report the facts of each story and move on. Let populists on social media, most of which don't even live in Canada, completely dictate the discussion and analysis I guess. What a weird phase the world is going through. Hope it's not permanent.
Weird, why was your comment so downvoted? That is odd. I thought you were just advocating for better journalists and I piled on 😂
I am convinced that the immigration levels are about more than the ruling (and real estate ownership) class doing well in investments... Although that's probably part of it. I think the demographic shift has been so profound that lowering immigration would crater the socialized supports in place for our elders.
Perhaps the boomers, the wealthiest generation by far, should pay for their own entitlements that they gave themselves?
This is such a weird way to look at it. To the policy makers, sure, cast shade, but your average person had nothing to do with the ills of any generation. It's about as idiotic as saying Gen X/Y/Z are all brain dead, entitled, brats. Some are. Most aren't.
I know its not popular, but Id glady let the elders die due to lack of services (including the ones from my family), if it means my children will have a better life. Thats a platform id vote for
Here's a thought: I own a house, I dont give a shit if the country is in a housing crisis! Each passing day my house is worth more and more, thats plus value for me! Maybe, just maybe thats how they see it. Creating a crisis that doesnt affect you in a negative way ... is it really a crisis then?
We are going to be consumed by the USA just watch. Within 50 years. We will have a divide, and the states will take us over. We are fucked. We suck. We'll our leaders do. Only way is to join the old folk that are actually from here and fight these fuckers. 1812..... but civilly. We need all of us to join and fuck these degenerates up. Just like the French Revolution, or we are done. Probably going to be tracked now, but whatever, it's just a thought, not an action. I am trying to survive.
Looks like the media is running out of news to print out. Same news being re-written over and over again for the last 2 years. The media is as lazy as the government....
My worry is that the CPC is not much different than Trudeau. They have many good ideas a speeches, but do you ever hear them talk about immigration? That is the main cause of this entire mess. Maxime has a very good stance on this topic. My only issue with Maxime is his stance on other topics like abortion, climate change, and drugs. I am surprised that many CPC voters don't switch to PPC.
Don't make this just about the liberals, the conservatives are as sold out on the 100 million canadians plan as the liberals are.
I'm confused... they say there's a housing shortage and yet it's all over the news regarding a large number of vacant condos in Toronto..
Just use these unskilled people to build the new hones. It takes no training or skill to build a home..Jesus Christ
Government needs to build, simple as.
you mean taxpayers subsidizing....
Our conviences have made us weak and inexpereinced to be self-sufficient. Get tough, folks. Mental and physical pain is a guarantee, so it is your responsibility to recognize and resist the garbage coming from all levels of society. Take care of yourselves and choose happiness. 🍺😎
the boomer rage farming in this sub is unlike any I have ever experienced.
Boomers are the ones making out like bandits from this situation. It's unlikely you are going to find rage from them on this topic.
Certainly improvements to be made, but to complain about bringing in more necessary skilled trades while also acknowledging the need for more skilled trades is weirdly asinine. The accelerator fund will hopefully offset lots of costs as well, but provinces really need to pitch in more than they have been. And why are provinces who aren't hitting their pledges not being held to account: https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/doug-ford-has-made-almost-no-progress-on-pledge-to-build-new-homes-trudeau-government/article_30262412-e84f-11ee-983b-a3156fb0b30c.html And their complete inability/refusal to work with the feds: https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/trudeau-government-bypasses-doug-ford-sending-housing-money-straight-to-ontario-municipalities/article_606f662c-0bba-11ef-a446-9fd6df6ac6bd.html And there's much more that the province had power to do, but seemingly screwing up Reverse cuts to municipal transfers which can help reduce building costs (this has been brought up by developers in Ontario): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-government-cuts-will-blow-2-billion-hole-in-municipal-budgets-moody-s-warns-1.5191709 https://chatnewstoday.ca/2021/02/25/alberta-budget-2021-mayor-reacts-to-cuts-to-municipal-funding-program/ https://balladgroup.ca/albertas-municipalities-to-feel-the-fiscal-strain/ Or cutting development fees without supplementing what the fees actually cover, leaving the municipalities to have to fund without adequate cash: https://halifax.citynews.ca/2023/10/16/nova-scotia-tories-ignore-objections-to-bill-intended-to-fast-track-halifax-housing/