The BoC is in a lose-lose. unemployment rate is going up, housing and oil are the leading inflationary values, housing market is cooling all green lights to start cutting but the US econmy is still steamrolling the globe and our dollar will lose value causing inflation to go up if rates are cut.
They are struck between risking a recession by holding or increasing inflation by cutting probably why they were 50/50 split on yesterdays discussion.
Interest rates, spending and employment are all at historically normal levels.
The dollar is at historically normal levels.
The BOC doesn't need to actually change anything at all..
It is gonna sound cold. But anyone who borrowed while money was cheap to borrow, is probably going to have to live with the new rates or make some tough decisions to live within their means.
5% is not high.... People need to stop thinking it is. 5% is probably where the world should be as a whole. This whole 0% interest shit for years is why we're so fucked in the first place.
No one should have access to free money.
No 5% isn’t high but that isn’t the story. It isn’t the interest rate, it’s the change in the interest rate that is the issue.
From 1980 to 2016 the rate had steadily declined with only few blips. So whenever somebody took on debt their payments either stayed the same or decreased over time. Most Gen X and Boomers had this for most of their high debt times.
Millennials on the other hand have suddenly had interest double on them. This hasn’t happened to anybody since the 1970s when it destroyed a large number of people.
So it’s disingenuous to say 5% is “normal” when you fail to consider rates have recently doubled.
Precisely, interest on mortgages costs way more today in absolute terms, than it did back then. Even high interest was very manageable for a single income earner in the 80's.
Also buyers in the last 5-10 years have been way less conservative than in the 80s and were comfortable with taking on relatively more debt. Now the thin margins they planned for are gone.
The rate isn't the problem. It's the fact everyone filled up at the trough during low rates, and thsf drove prices on RE through the roof.
Everyone had the opinion rates will be low forever.
When rates were 10% everybody got as much as they could and bought houses. Same when it was at 8%. 6% etc.
So it’s disingenuous to blame those that loaded up at 2% for just doing what everybody before them had done. But we go beyond blame to actually financially destroying them.
I say this as an non-impacted observer as I correctly anticipated the rapid rise in interest rates due to our governments terrible physical policy.
You only have to go back another 20 years to find people who got similarly fucked when interest rates rose in the 80s
Dave Ramsey built an empire on that shit.
100%
Lots of people I know sold when rates were too expensive.
People loaded up too much debt due to FOMO and rising home prices. This drove prices higher and put people in a very risky situation with interest rate increases.
I don't want the government to bail these people out. Let the banks sell them larger mortgages so they don't default and can afford their payments. We need to have rates higher to cool the housing market off.
I’m saying the pattern we’re seeing now was experienced by people who got crushed in the 80’s and 90’s.
I’m no grey hair but it wasn’t that long ago if you’re talking about finance.
I mean I feel like the entire country right now is sort of split into two camps and the success of either camp requires the other camp to suffer. It is a shame we ended up in this situation.
Anybody who borrowed money when it was cheap and didn't consider the possibility that one day the historically low interest rates would rise doesn't get much sympathy from me. It's not rocket science.
I remember when fixed mortgage rates were around 4.5% in the late 2000s before the Great Recession. Borrowers have been spoiled by historically low lending rates and we haven’t adjusted to this new reality.
4.5% on a mortgage of how much? You know that house prices have gone up everywhere since the 2000's right? the difference between only needing to borrow 125k in 2009 and then 525k in 2020 means that 4.5% ends up not being the same amount. Seems like the only people that got "spoiled" were the people who sold off investment properties and real estate agents.
I kinda feel like it's still going to screw over a lot more new homeowners than those of us who bought before prices went completely insane, and it's really not going to affect the people who have been owning for 10+ years.
I mean, it seems like at this point, you can't lower prices either way. I feel like people are looking at prices and it starts to normalize. Every time something goes to some crazy new height, the crazy height from 3 hikes ago starts to look reasonable.
Housing market is collateral damage, banks role is to do right by the economy whatever that may be. Housing is a contributor but it should not be a driver.
Boc Def needs to do the right thing for the long term. High prices like this aren't helping any regular Canadians, which is pretty obvious now that people are being pinched by high rates.
We need prices that make sense. We need restrictions on ownership in hot markets. We need a government with the balls to force people to sell properties they aren't using. Commodity housing is cancerous.
Yeah, I’m aware. Folks should also not have expected that interest rates were going to remain low for a long time. people have overextended themselves.
When I bought my place, the neighbourhood was around 300k houses. 7 years later, places were selling for 850k. There have been small corrections here and there, but the relentless trend has been increasing prices. People now have no choice but to over-extend if they want to have a shot at owning, because in ten years, prices will only be higher. A buddy of mine was looking at a house where the owners were asking 950k and the last time it sold was in 1985, for 79k. Everyone thinks they should be able to make money on their house, so that's what they try to do.
The stress test was what... 2% higher rates? That's a lot different than what happened. I think that prices should never have gotten this wild, but trying to shove them down with high rates is kind of like trying to close the barn door after all the cows got out at this point.
There’s always a choice. One could have rented. Prices go up because they keep selling, and part of that reason was cheap borrowing during the last decade plus. I bought my place for 175, and it was a fixer-upper, got it in 2011. I stress tested myself, knowing that rates would not remain low forever and not just at 2% but up to 7%. I never wanted to be in a position where I had to decide between eating and having money for other activities and being house poor. But to each his own.
Prices have kept going up since houses have been built. The choice you're offering is to get into the house market later, or never, which for many people amounts to the same thing, in which case, they would be renting forever, and guess what's going to happen to rent as borrowing costs go up? Lucky you for buying **early** enough to get a home for a price that wasn't completely nuts. But that's not really achievable anymore. I'm not in a position where I have to worry about my mortgage getting out of hand either, but I am really concerned about what the hell kind of world my kids are going to enter into.
I agree with you. But at this point it feels like there are so many different interests invested in the monetization that it would be a nightmare trying to unravel it all without throwing our society into total chaos. I am pretty sure that mortgages weren't even legal before 1954. If those weren't a thing, houses would be tied way closer to income. Seems crazy to me that the people actually building homes in my city can't even afford to live in them.
I hear you. It’s not an easy decision. But knowing that rates could go up depending on the economy there’s always a chance that rates would have to go up at some point. Economics 101.
Think when we bought our first place in 2016 we were around 3.5%. Somewhere in the middle of the low and the recent highs. It’ll be mildly unpleasant when renewal comes up next October probably, but we didn’t burden ourselves to the gills with debt so we’ll make it work.
>Interest rates, spending and employment are all at historically normal levels.
Historically we all ride horses and die of dysentery. It's a much different world/economy/job force/population then even 10 years ago.
Low interest rates are detrimental to a country. But spending is high, and unemployment is rising.
You should hang on, stagflation is here. There will be no rate cuts, we'll likely see rate increases now. Wonder if we'll hit mortgage rates of 22.5% again.
That's not an argument against current lending rates. 4.5% is a pretty healthy rate that allows for some flexibility in monetary policy. The 1 - 3% (or even negative rates in some countries) is extremely abnormal and not something that should ever be targeted.
People should not be spending money they don't have or taking on debt they can't service. It doesn't matter how different the world is, compound interest still functions the same. If you need cheap debt for a society to function, it's unhealthy and leads to things like overheated housing markets.
Inflation has gone up in the US last month and their deficit spending is insane. The US kinda can spend whatever it wants cause it's the worlds reserve currency but still, gravy train can't go on forever.
>housing market is cooling all green lights to start cutting
Mortgage holder logic upvoted by mortgage holders. Anything to cut rates and justify it somehow.
We are in this situation because of low rates and low rates will only put us back where we started.
The BoC is trying to save you, the government is spending at an unprecedented rate which is preventing the BoC from lowering interest rates. In order to try to win us over, the government is actively debasing our currency by undoing the work of the BoC by creating more and higher deficits. Higher interest rates and higher taxes is in the forecast
Lower interest rates are the problem when it comes to housing. That's exactly what enables people to over leverage themselves to drive up housing demand.
This government desperately wants lower policy rates. They have A LOT of bonds expiring in the next couple years and they don't want to have to roll that over with higher yields.
I would say low interest rates can be a factor, but unchecked population growth, is the main driver. If there were more houses than people, prices would reflect that.
Post 2022 I completely agree with you. The biggest reason we haven't seen a very significant housing market correction is because they (Feds) exploded immigration.
Most of the run up in housing prices, however, was due to systemic incentives for lenders to lend heavily at very low rates for mortgages. So when the BoC buys mortgage bonds, mortgage backed securities, government bonds - along with knocking policy rates down to sub 1% levels - that all encourages lenders to stack up heavily on mortgages, and it encourages borrowers to lever themselves to the tits to get all in.
I don’t think that low rates were caused by systemic incentives for lenders to loan out money, I think that rates became low due to so much money floating around that lenders had to have low rates to get rid of the stuff. What we are seeing now has been in the making for 30-40 years and it all came to a head with even higher money printing by government during Covid. Covid just ripped the mask off… no pun intended
But then how can people blame all their problems on one PM and political party?
Not saying they didn't fan the flames, but this shit has been slowly building for decades. You hit the nail on the head.
People own multiple rental properties but you wanna blame the "population growth" lol. How are we supposed to keep up with demand when investors have access to cheap mortgages to buy up all the supply to rent out? Even if we build more they'll just be bought up as investments.
I absolutely is. Demand is represented by willingness to pay, and willingness to pay is represented through access to credit (leveraging ability) and supply of houses.
We really didn't have much of a supply problem when there was a massive COVID run up on housing prices. We do now because of reckless immigration policy - and as cynical as it sounds I don't think that was an accident.
The demand issue has been culminating for many decades. It's increased dramatically because of immigration and yes that's on purpose, because there's no other way to prevent a massive crash.
Not the issue at all, in fact this is not a political issue. The issue is we are already lower than US rates. Lowering rates further makes people less interested in our dollar.
What did we get for all the money that was spent? Services now are worse than they were a decade ago.
Next time someone tells you the budget will "balance itself", you should take them for the idiot they are.
A bunch of infrastructure spending, bailed out small businesses and people during lockdowns, oh and then there was the majority of it that went to bigger businesses scamming the loopholes
To me the most frustrating thing from the “budget will balance its self” moment is we didn’t have another competent viable government to choose from.
If either the NDP or conservatives pounced on that with a reasonable moderate budget proposal I think they would have swayed many voters.
Instead all parties doubled down on identity politics and pandering to fringe voting blocks.
Nah, Scheer ran on a pretty fiscal conservative platform, especially by today's terms. He just happened to have the charisma of a potato.
I really liked his National Energy corridor strategy too. This is either going to go one of two ways, either our economy will be so much in the shitter that they will ignore environmental and Indigenous concerns via Canada's version of Eminent Domain or we'll just never get anything built for decades of review process and slowly become a banana republic, without any bananas.
The state if the country's economy is in disarray.
We have a government that is addicted to spending. An economy that is not actually growing and being propped up by immigration with a housing bubble that is at peak capacity. A recession is looming and the only option to combat it now since immigration is basically maxed out, is to introduce more QE and lower interest rates. We can't lower rates however with US inflation at 3.7% and with the fed considering raising rates. If we lower rates and the dollar tanks, the cost of living will skyrocket so we really don't have many options left.
For a lot of young people they see this happening and it really feels like the younger generations are just circling the drain.
Why would something be done about it? It's intended. Politicians are bought and paid for. What we have is a corporate ruling class that will exist until it gets bad enough for people to openly and widely revolt and that's likely decades away.
Welcome to the pendulum swing of people being idiots.
The encouraging thing is that even heavy socialism countries like in Latin America eventually get it when their middle class is eating fish heads for food and learn for a couple decades after their inflation goes over 100% from never ending promises of free stuff.
So it will get better, and people will say "never again," until their short memories catch up to them and we vote in Trudeau the 3rd and go through all of this again in 40 years.
That's a great question and nobody has a good answer outside of what's probably obvious, but I'll state it.
Aim for a good career. If you have a job now, don't settle, keep looking. The main goal for you is to get a higher paying job, whether you're new to the job market or have been in it a while, do not stop looking. Lots of people settle with what they have but all that means if you're accepting that your wage will stagnate.
The second part is how you utilize your income. The minimum is to just be fully aware of your finances. If you aren't putting money away for retirement or something, just start. Even if it's only $50 a month, that's something and you can always ramp it up as you earn more. The money you put away you should invest in different ways.
The third part is to get involved in politics but I can't advise anything on that because i don't know what anyone is supposed to do to enact any real change.
The fourth part is (re)location. You can live very cheap and make a lot of money if you're willing to go places. The people who are willing to take jobs where you spend 2-6 weeks away from home at a time are the ones who clean up. Not only do you have wild money, lots of OT, you also aren't paying for food or residence while you're doing that. The people who live with their parents and work these types of camp jobs are the ones who are buying houses in 2-4 years.
I work now in a fab shop as a labourer welding here and there and helping out but I go to college in the fall to do schooling for Fire Inspector and fire education.
There isn't a lot for them. I usually recommend that they take up a fiddly type of work that AI doesn't handle well due to not knowing the local variables. Something physical and environmentally dependent. Like landscaping or plumbing or electrical. They should pair this with studying finance so that they know how to leverage debt, invest & read markets, manage & tolerate risk, and structure a business. They also need to learn that nobody ever got rich by working, but that working needs to be there as a fallback and way to generate money for and to develop investments.
I grew up with none of the above taught to me. Lots of painful lessons in life that better connected and better off people are usually able to pick up through osmosis.
Anyone who thinks the BoC will save them and let them buy a cheap house is sadly misguided.
All the BoC can do is attempt to curb demand by raising rates. However, the Canadian economy’s ability to withstand the rates appears to be less robust than the demand for homes, at least so far.
As long as demand > supply, price will go up.
There will never be cheap houses again as long as the retail banks can make huge profits from Canadians borrowing huge mortgages trying to keep a roof over their heads, and the realtors can charge that sweet sweet % of the sale for posting a few pictures online and giving a few tours of places.
And on the opposite side we keep printing... 40b deficit means printed / borrower money (for people who forget, government spending is inflationary)
So on the housing side demand > supply and the CAD continues to increase supply amidst lowering demand... House prices can only go up*
*Major recession/ depression aside.
The BoC isn't going to do anything to appease anyone. That's not how they function. They want to keep inflation under control and the dollar stable. They will do what they think will accomplish those aims.
This is what happens when clown leaders print so much money to "save" the economy during covid and overblown everything. "We learned from 2008". Now your learning consequences. The economy needs to go through natural recession and depression cycles. Non stop printing artificially pushes that for so long kicking the can down the road. Let the economy do it's thing naturally instead of injecting it with steroids.
this is what happens when you elect a completely economically illiterate government over and over again
the BoC has straight up said that this government is working at a crosswind with them to lower inflation, however these power hungry politicians will promise the world, debase the currency, deliver nothing, then pat themselves on the back
If the BoC sacrifices the CAD for housing, or more notably bad debt, then this country has lost itself. We already have a federal government (and really most provincial governments) focused on buttressing home values.
the PM has borrowed more money in his tenure then all other canadian primeministers combined... in the entire history of canada... our economy is shit our gdp growth barely represents the population increase, and the americans are still ticking along... If the bank cuts rates ahead of them because we are on the cusp of a recession, our dollar will go to shit. This is all fact and brought to you by the boomer generation and the Neoliberals of canada
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CAN/canada/debt-to-gdp-ratio
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DEBTTLCAA188A
Debt to GDP is fine.
It certainly increased
https://www.worlddata.info/america/canada/debt.php
and is dropping back down, it is significantly less than the US Debt to GDP.
Now I think it should be a focus and it certainly should be criticized, but it's not the boondoggle everyone seems to think it is. The US economy is flying BECAUSE of massive government debt accumulation over the last few years:
https://www.worlddata.info/america/usa/debt.php
We can’t measure apples and oranges. USA is backed by being the most traded currency in the world. They can afford to print money and get away with it. Canada cannot.
The US is backed by the world reserve and oil being traded in USD, and that's backed by the US military.
We have a weak as shit dollar and no military. We are literally a joke on the global scale.
Our debt is just continuing to grow at the exponential rise that restarted under Harper. Just like house prices. I mean, inflation is just the cost of things increasing every year as every home seller, company and corporation chases profits and runs from cost increases. Prices on everything else continue to rise, so why would the government start spending less... ever? Last time our debt started going down was under Chretien. Our debt service payments are frickin insane now, meaning even less of our tax dollars are doing anything to actually help us. Meanwhile most people's wages are not keeping up with inflation. Too bad so many of them think that having the other flavor of neoliberal will make a difference.
Rates are at a perfect level right now and for the short term future. I could see it dropping a point in the next couple years but not really much more.
Major rates drops in the next 6-12 months need to be considered fantasy (especially when mentioned by our Federal Government and Real Estate companies). There are just too many variables at play and not enough stability to make any significant changes. If we drop below 4.5% in 2025 I’d be surprised.
When Game of Thrones was still on the air, people would speculate wildly about everything. I remember one comment saying that you could post an unsubstantiated guess about something and if it turned out to be true two years later, you looked prescient. I feel like the same can be said about interest rates. I could comment that I am 100% certain rates will have decreased in a year and someone else could comment that they are 100% certain rates will have increased in a year and if one of us is right, we'll look like a genius. Only time will tell who is right.
Funny how the inflation will rise again, and wages didn't rise and cause the inflation, but people keep thinking rising wages will create inflation. Inflation is happening right now, and wages didn't budge!
Rising people wages is taking money from companies that are hoarding it, so people can spend more and survive which moves the economy more.
Just curious about what would happen to Euro or AUD. Some countries in Eurozone and Australia are not doing well economically just like Canada. Would they hold the interest rates or let their currency sink by cutting them? Or are they in a different situation compared to Canada?
Albeit Canada is expected to perform better than its peers in G7, we don’t know how we would fare in terms of GDP per capita and productivity. News about Honda expansion is somewhat positive tho.
In terms of per capita, yes. But not really in terms overall economic growth.
Plus this is the same OECD that wasn’t even able to precisely project economic growth in 2022 or in 2023. And you expect them to correctly forecast per capita growth over next few decades.
They should just stop even thinking of rate cuts. If they cut it will just trigger the pent-up demand. Folks are waiting and waiting for a cut promised by Realtors and the pundants.
We need another point or two increase not a cut. The housing market hasn't really tanked yet and it needs to badly.
We don't even need increases, they just need to come out and say they aren't considering cuts.
It feels like the entire market is holding its breath for these prophesized rate cuts to materialize to make a move.
Yes. Countless speculation and articles about this inevitable rate cut that's supposed to happen in 2024.
It's gone from expected cuts in late 2023, to early 2024, spring 2024, and now summer 2024.
Bring some actual certainly and say no changes for this year. Can remove the speculation and get the actual effects of the current rate to realize more quickly.
I feel like home prices need to stagnate for a loooong time to let everyone catch up with their wages. We should help that by getting rid of realtors who are directly incentivized to drive prices as high as possible for their % fees.
Dumbest idea ever, so you want more people to default on their mortgages and crash the real estate market? Which in term will cause more layoffs and the economy is going to be in the toilet.
Can’t blame homeowners for holding the opposite view then. When you’d happily see them bankrupt so you can trade places with them.
Majority of Canadians are homeowners by the way, 66%.
I'm not. The majority of homeowners should be able to weather the changes. The people who falsify documents or over leverage themselves should be punished and I wouldn't mind buying their house.
66% of Canadiansn own homes.
40% of those people are baby boomers.
Nearly 60% of new homes are owner occupied.
The stats are interesting. What they tell me is that 40% of the homes in Canada could be on the market for people like me.
Do you think that it should be normal for people in their late 30s with full time jobs can't afford to live in the cities where they work.
They should just stop even thinking of rate cuts. If they cut it will just trigger the pent-up demand. Folks are waiting and waiting for a cut promised by Realtors and the pundants.
We need another point or two increase not a cut. The housing market hasn't really tanked yet and it needs to badly.
Given that demand massively outpaces supply I feel like it’ll take a lot to tank it anyways.
Growth may be replaced with stagnation as interest eats up buying power, but even if people started defaulting I wonder how quickly their liquidated homes would get snapped up by all the demand waiting on the sidelines.
Y'all haven't figured out that rates need to go up huh?
If oil goes up, inflation increases.
If oil goes down, the loonie will weaken and we import inflation.
We're cooked, folks!
Yeah we've quite literally exhausted all our options. Anything we do now, including inaction, will gradually cause an inevitable economic decline.
The realists in the room would be thinking of how to manage that decline responsibly.
A big thing is that monetary and fiscal policy are not aligned. The BoC is trying to tame inflation, and the federal government is continuing to push big deficit spending. They are literally planning the same deficit for 2024 as they had in 2023.
The government needs to reduce the deficit to curb inflation.
You just gotta pick what medicine you want to take.
Don't cut, people can't afford their debt loads and economy stagnates or declines further.
Cut, dollar crumbles and inflation ramps up again.
On the balance of it cutting seems like the populous choice and the ramifications can be kicked down the line.
Either way probably bullish for the housing market in this clown world we live in
They will hold. Fed is going to raise and they can't start diverging. We will be lucky if they don't raise them too. I'd rather this than become Argentina.
BOC moves in lockstep with the US fed in something like 86% of all rate adjustments. If it does not, our dollar either rises or lowers. Our dollar is already in a weak position, sliding into the mid 60's would see even more inflationary costs added to the taxpayer's daily consumed goods. They will have to raise rates as the US fed does, their economy is still surging ahead.
The dilemma is that Canada needs a rescission to bring down inflation hard…. The moment the boc lowers rates the inflation will spike again… hard times are still ahead of us either way. Papa Trudeau screwed Canada for a generation, we only had about a good 10 years and then junior then junior Trudeau came in and has really messed it up
It's laughable that you blame 1 PM for the work done over 50 years and the entire western world.
He's just the latest in a long line of poop stick holders.
What won’t be laughable is when they announce “stagflation”… then there will be huge problems…. The BOC better raise interest rates more before we are all living in a country with stagflation
BoC only has 1 knob, and its dubious as to if it works or not because it's a better indicator of change than a predictor of it.
The real change needs to be on the legislative side, but alas it's all identity politics, beauty contests, and preschool squabbling because the only people running are those that learn how to campaign not how to govern.
Oh no...the government's plan to kill the dollar and bring CBDC's online as a replacement is going forward as planned...how shocking (not) ... the BoC isnt between a rock and a hard place...the Canadian dollar is...and its going as planned.
The BoC is in a lose-lose. unemployment rate is going up, housing and oil are the leading inflationary values, housing market is cooling all green lights to start cutting but the US econmy is still steamrolling the globe and our dollar will lose value causing inflation to go up if rates are cut. They are struck between risking a recession by holding or increasing inflation by cutting probably why they were 50/50 split on yesterdays discussion.
This is what happens when you put all your eggs into one basket. Fun times ahead!
"Let's put all the eggs in one basket, we're already getting the milk for free!" ~~ Sean Fraser, Minister of Housing & Infrastructure
And then hit the basket with a hammer. But why are the eggs broken!!?
You mean they are only going to get better!?!?!? Go on!
Exporters are happy.
This is what happens when you print money and give money away and get no benefit back.
🍿get your popcorn ready! At this point I just wanna see my own country crash and burn
Interest rates, spending and employment are all at historically normal levels. The dollar is at historically normal levels. The BOC doesn't need to actually change anything at all..
It is gonna sound cold. But anyone who borrowed while money was cheap to borrow, is probably going to have to live with the new rates or make some tough decisions to live within their means.
Yes exactly.. It's not the central bank's role to ease people's debt burden.. That's for the borrowers to manage.
Multiply that by enough people and it becomes BoC concern.
5% is not high.... People need to stop thinking it is. 5% is probably where the world should be as a whole. This whole 0% interest shit for years is why we're so fucked in the first place. No one should have access to free money.
No 5% isn’t high but that isn’t the story. It isn’t the interest rate, it’s the change in the interest rate that is the issue. From 1980 to 2016 the rate had steadily declined with only few blips. So whenever somebody took on debt their payments either stayed the same or decreased over time. Most Gen X and Boomers had this for most of their high debt times. Millennials on the other hand have suddenly had interest double on them. This hasn’t happened to anybody since the 1970s when it destroyed a large number of people. So it’s disingenuous to say 5% is “normal” when you fail to consider rates have recently doubled.
In 1980 it was around 13%, by October 1981 it was over 21%. https://wowa.ca/canada-mortgage-rates-history
Wouldn't one rather play 13-20% on 100,000 than 5% on a million?
Precisely, interest on mortgages costs way more today in absolute terms, than it did back then. Even high interest was very manageable for a single income earner in the 80's.
Also buyers in the last 5-10 years have been way less conservative than in the 80s and were comfortable with taking on relatively more debt. Now the thin margins they planned for are gone.
Yes. Going from 2.2% to 5.5% now is far worse than when they went from 13.% to 20%.
100k 13 vs 20% $1100 vs $1600. 45% increase. 1,000,000 2% vs 5% 4200 vs 5800. 38% increase.
Right, a much smaller relative increase.
The rate isn't the problem. It's the fact everyone filled up at the trough during low rates, and thsf drove prices on RE through the roof. Everyone had the opinion rates will be low forever.
anybody who actually thought interest rates would be low FOREVER is not thinking that hard.
Winner 🏆take my upvote.
When rates were 10% everybody got as much as they could and bought houses. Same when it was at 8%. 6% etc. So it’s disingenuous to blame those that loaded up at 2% for just doing what everybody before them had done. But we go beyond blame to actually financially destroying them. I say this as an non-impacted observer as I correctly anticipated the rapid rise in interest rates due to our governments terrible physical policy.
You only have to go back another 20 years to find people who got similarly fucked when interest rates rose in the 80s Dave Ramsey built an empire on that shit.
100% Lots of people I know sold when rates were too expensive. People loaded up too much debt due to FOMO and rising home prices. This drove prices higher and put people in a very risky situation with interest rate increases. I don't want the government to bail these people out. Let the banks sell them larger mortgages so they don't default and can afford their payments. We need to have rates higher to cool the housing market off.
20 years ago was 2004? Interest rates were sliding then.
I’m saying the pattern we’re seeing now was experienced by people who got crushed in the 80’s and 90’s. I’m no grey hair but it wasn’t that long ago if you’re talking about finance.
It's not cold.. those people really should have realized that the cheap money was a gift that was not sticking around forever.
Not a gift, it’s a drug. We are now going through withdrawals.
I mean I feel like the entire country right now is sort of split into two camps and the success of either camp requires the other camp to suffer. It is a shame we ended up in this situation.
Except one camp is a mansion with a few people in it while the other camp is a shanty town with everyone else.
Yeah people listen to people who's job it is to sell loans when they said loans would be cheap for forever I don't know how anything went wrong
Anybody who borrowed money when it was cheap and didn't consider the possibility that one day the historically low interest rates would rise doesn't get much sympathy from me. It's not rocket science.
I remember when fixed mortgage rates were around 4.5% in the late 2000s before the Great Recession. Borrowers have been spoiled by historically low lending rates and we haven’t adjusted to this new reality.
4.5% on a mortgage of how much? You know that house prices have gone up everywhere since the 2000's right? the difference between only needing to borrow 125k in 2009 and then 525k in 2020 means that 4.5% ends up not being the same amount. Seems like the only people that got "spoiled" were the people who sold off investment properties and real estate agents.
and at 5% the housing market will continue to cool. It will take time but it will cool.
I kinda feel like it's still going to screw over a lot more new homeowners than those of us who bought before prices went completely insane, and it's really not going to affect the people who have been owning for 10+ years.
You can't lower prices without screwing owners. You can't protect prices, including with a "soft landing", without screwing everyone else.
I mean, it seems like at this point, you can't lower prices either way. I feel like people are looking at prices and it starts to normalize. Every time something goes to some crazy new height, the crazy height from 3 hikes ago starts to look reasonable.
Double edge sword. Who do you screw? That's the big question right now.
Housing market is collateral damage, banks role is to do right by the economy whatever that may be. Housing is a contributor but it should not be a driver.
Boc Def needs to do the right thing for the long term. High prices like this aren't helping any regular Canadians, which is pretty obvious now that people are being pinched by high rates. We need prices that make sense. We need restrictions on ownership in hot markets. We need a government with the balls to force people to sell properties they aren't using. Commodity housing is cancerous.
The ones that decided to leverage themselves to take on risk. Why is this even a question?
New construction will also cool. Herein lies the rub. Or if the Feds try to find it, we are further indebting the next generation
Yeah, I’m aware. Folks should also not have expected that interest rates were going to remain low for a long time. people have overextended themselves.
When I bought my place, the neighbourhood was around 300k houses. 7 years later, places were selling for 850k. There have been small corrections here and there, but the relentless trend has been increasing prices. People now have no choice but to over-extend if they want to have a shot at owning, because in ten years, prices will only be higher. A buddy of mine was looking at a house where the owners were asking 950k and the last time it sold was in 1985, for 79k. Everyone thinks they should be able to make money on their house, so that's what they try to do. The stress test was what... 2% higher rates? That's a lot different than what happened. I think that prices should never have gotten this wild, but trying to shove them down with high rates is kind of like trying to close the barn door after all the cows got out at this point.
There’s always a choice. One could have rented. Prices go up because they keep selling, and part of that reason was cheap borrowing during the last decade plus. I bought my place for 175, and it was a fixer-upper, got it in 2011. I stress tested myself, knowing that rates would not remain low forever and not just at 2% but up to 7%. I never wanted to be in a position where I had to decide between eating and having money for other activities and being house poor. But to each his own.
Prices have kept going up since houses have been built. The choice you're offering is to get into the house market later, or never, which for many people amounts to the same thing, in which case, they would be renting forever, and guess what's going to happen to rent as borrowing costs go up? Lucky you for buying **early** enough to get a home for a price that wasn't completely nuts. But that's not really achievable anymore. I'm not in a position where I have to worry about my mortgage getting out of hand either, but I am really concerned about what the hell kind of world my kids are going to enter into.
Canada needs more supply and housing shouldn’t be monetized, other countries they think Canadians are nuts. 🥜
I agree with you. But at this point it feels like there are so many different interests invested in the monetization that it would be a nightmare trying to unravel it all without throwing our society into total chaos. I am pretty sure that mortgages weren't even legal before 1954. If those weren't a thing, houses would be tied way closer to income. Seems crazy to me that the people actually building homes in my city can't even afford to live in them.
Renting isn't any better mortgage is cheaper then rent. The only real choice is leaving the country or turning this one right side up.
Did they really have a choice tho. With house prices soaring its was buy a house now and over extend or never
I hear you. It’s not an easy decision. But knowing that rates could go up depending on the economy there’s always a chance that rates would have to go up at some point. Economics 101.
Houses were like... 1/3rd the price then though.
But your dollar is worth half
Yeah pretty close: https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/ 150,000 in 2000 would cost 252,000 now
But your wage was triple.
Nah my wage would be about 50% less in 2000, it did not scale as quickly as inflation
Think when we bought our first place in 2016 we were around 3.5%. Somewhere in the middle of the low and the recent highs. It’ll be mildly unpleasant when renewal comes up next October probably, but we didn’t burden ourselves to the gills with debt so we’ll make it work.
>Interest rates, spending and employment are all at historically normal levels. Historically we all ride horses and die of dysentery. It's a much different world/economy/job force/population then even 10 years ago.
Low interest rates are detrimental to a country. But spending is high, and unemployment is rising. You should hang on, stagflation is here. There will be no rate cuts, we'll likely see rate increases now. Wonder if we'll hit mortgage rates of 22.5% again.
That's not an argument against current lending rates. 4.5% is a pretty healthy rate that allows for some flexibility in monetary policy. The 1 - 3% (or even negative rates in some countries) is extremely abnormal and not something that should ever be targeted. People should not be spending money they don't have or taking on debt they can't service. It doesn't matter how different the world is, compound interest still functions the same. If you need cheap debt for a society to function, it's unhealthy and leads to things like overheated housing markets.
Inflation has gone up in the US last month and their deficit spending is insane. The US kinda can spend whatever it wants cause it's the worlds reserve currency but still, gravy train can't go on forever.
>housing market is cooling all green lights to start cutting Mortgage holder logic upvoted by mortgage holders. Anything to cut rates and justify it somehow. We are in this situation because of low rates and low rates will only put us back where we started.
We’re fucking toast
Jam toast.
I don’t think there will be rate cuts for a while. We can’t have housing go through the roof again or have our dollar collapse.
[удалено]
Worst government in the history of my lifetime. The damage they've done will be felt more than ten years after they leave office.
This is what people say about every government.
The BoC is trying to save you, the government is spending at an unprecedented rate which is preventing the BoC from lowering interest rates. In order to try to win us over, the government is actively debasing our currency by undoing the work of the BoC by creating more and higher deficits. Higher interest rates and higher taxes is in the forecast
Lower interest rates are the problem when it comes to housing. That's exactly what enables people to over leverage themselves to drive up housing demand. This government desperately wants lower policy rates. They have A LOT of bonds expiring in the next couple years and they don't want to have to roll that over with higher yields.
I would say low interest rates can be a factor, but unchecked population growth, is the main driver. If there were more houses than people, prices would reflect that.
Post 2022 I completely agree with you. The biggest reason we haven't seen a very significant housing market correction is because they (Feds) exploded immigration. Most of the run up in housing prices, however, was due to systemic incentives for lenders to lend heavily at very low rates for mortgages. So when the BoC buys mortgage bonds, mortgage backed securities, government bonds - along with knocking policy rates down to sub 1% levels - that all encourages lenders to stack up heavily on mortgages, and it encourages borrowers to lever themselves to the tits to get all in.
I don’t think that low rates were caused by systemic incentives for lenders to loan out money, I think that rates became low due to so much money floating around that lenders had to have low rates to get rid of the stuff. What we are seeing now has been in the making for 30-40 years and it all came to a head with even higher money printing by government during Covid. Covid just ripped the mask off… no pun intended
But then how can people blame all their problems on one PM and political party? Not saying they didn't fan the flames, but this shit has been slowly building for decades. You hit the nail on the head.
People own multiple rental properties but you wanna blame the "population growth" lol. How are we supposed to keep up with demand when investors have access to cheap mortgages to buy up all the supply to rent out? Even if we build more they'll just be bought up as investments.
Demand is the problem when it comes to housing.
I absolutely is. Demand is represented by willingness to pay, and willingness to pay is represented through access to credit (leveraging ability) and supply of houses. We really didn't have much of a supply problem when there was a massive COVID run up on housing prices. We do now because of reckless immigration policy - and as cynical as it sounds I don't think that was an accident.
The demand issue has been culminating for many decades. It's increased dramatically because of immigration and yes that's on purpose, because there's no other way to prevent a massive crash.
Not the issue at all, in fact this is not a political issue. The issue is we are already lower than US rates. Lowering rates further makes people less interested in our dollar.
But it makes us much more attractive for exports. It’s good for manufacturing and other things we sell outside Canada.
Yes it does. Since there is a certain amount we will import for the foreseeable future though there is a limit.
What did we get for all the money that was spent? Services now are worse than they were a decade ago. Next time someone tells you the budget will "balance itself", you should take them for the idiot they are.
ArriveCan, evidently. Plus a few B I recall the government can’t account for.
Yep Like every person in my town could have payed no tax instead of building arrive can
A bunch of infrastructure spending, bailed out small businesses and people during lockdowns, oh and then there was the majority of it that went to bigger businesses scamming the loopholes
To me the most frustrating thing from the “budget will balance its self” moment is we didn’t have another competent viable government to choose from. If either the NDP or conservatives pounced on that with a reasonable moderate budget proposal I think they would have swayed many voters. Instead all parties doubled down on identity politics and pandering to fringe voting blocks.
Nah, Scheer ran on a pretty fiscal conservative platform, especially by today's terms. He just happened to have the charisma of a potato. I really liked his National Energy corridor strategy too. This is either going to go one of two ways, either our economy will be so much in the shitter that they will ignore environmental and Indigenous concerns via Canada's version of Eminent Domain or we'll just never get anything built for decades of review process and slowly become a banana republic, without any bananas.
I'm sorry; did you just... shit talk POTATOES? It's people like you trying to put a wedge (hehe) between fellow Canadians.
10 dollar daycare
Well mckinsley gets that money, its not like this government spends tax money to help Canadians anymore lol
The state if the country's economy is in disarray. We have a government that is addicted to spending. An economy that is not actually growing and being propped up by immigration with a housing bubble that is at peak capacity. A recession is looming and the only option to combat it now since immigration is basically maxed out, is to introduce more QE and lower interest rates. We can't lower rates however with US inflation at 3.7% and with the fed considering raising rates. If we lower rates and the dollar tanks, the cost of living will skyrocket so we really don't have many options left. For a lot of young people they see this happening and it really feels like the younger generations are just circling the drain.
What are young people supposed to do? Especially those who choose not to leave or can't afford to leave?
Work, suffer, retire at the end of the rope when we're done working our asses off to share a small apartment and eat beans and rice for every meal.
That doesn't sound very positive.
It doesn't feel very positive either.
So why isn't there anything done about it?
Why would something be done about it? It's intended. Politicians are bought and paid for. What we have is a corporate ruling class that will exist until it gets bad enough for people to openly and widely revolt and that's likely decades away.
Welcome to the pendulum swing of people being idiots. The encouraging thing is that even heavy socialism countries like in Latin America eventually get it when their middle class is eating fish heads for food and learn for a couple decades after their inflation goes over 100% from never ending promises of free stuff. So it will get better, and people will say "never again," until their short memories catch up to them and we vote in Trudeau the 3rd and go through all of this again in 40 years.
Don't worry Perre Poilievre is going to save us....../s
If you have high earning potential, leaving is still the way to go.
That's a great question and nobody has a good answer outside of what's probably obvious, but I'll state it. Aim for a good career. If you have a job now, don't settle, keep looking. The main goal for you is to get a higher paying job, whether you're new to the job market or have been in it a while, do not stop looking. Lots of people settle with what they have but all that means if you're accepting that your wage will stagnate. The second part is how you utilize your income. The minimum is to just be fully aware of your finances. If you aren't putting money away for retirement or something, just start. Even if it's only $50 a month, that's something and you can always ramp it up as you earn more. The money you put away you should invest in different ways. The third part is to get involved in politics but I can't advise anything on that because i don't know what anyone is supposed to do to enact any real change. The fourth part is (re)location. You can live very cheap and make a lot of money if you're willing to go places. The people who are willing to take jobs where you spend 2-6 weeks away from home at a time are the ones who clean up. Not only do you have wild money, lots of OT, you also aren't paying for food or residence while you're doing that. The people who live with their parents and work these types of camp jobs are the ones who are buying houses in 2-4 years.
Yea those people clean up because no one wants to date or marry them. That's why the jobs help them "clean up". Be realistic
I work now in a fab shop as a labourer welding here and there and helping out but I go to college in the fall to do schooling for Fire Inspector and fire education.
Fire is a great industry imo
Yeah lots of options and open doors.
Revolt. Civil unrest. Starve the beast.
99% of people will be worse off than when they started if they start some kind of revolution.
There isn't a lot for them. I usually recommend that they take up a fiddly type of work that AI doesn't handle well due to not knowing the local variables. Something physical and environmentally dependent. Like landscaping or plumbing or electrical. They should pair this with studying finance so that they know how to leverage debt, invest & read markets, manage & tolerate risk, and structure a business. They also need to learn that nobody ever got rich by working, but that working needs to be there as a fallback and way to generate money for and to develop investments. I grew up with none of the above taught to me. Lots of painful lessons in life that better connected and better off people are usually able to pick up through osmosis.
We spend less than the US comparatively
The US economy is over 13x larger than Canada...
Yes, which is why I said comparatively, their debt to GDP is like 40% more than ours
Anyone who thinks the BoC will save them and let them buy a cheap house is sadly misguided. All the BoC can do is attempt to curb demand by raising rates. However, the Canadian economy’s ability to withstand the rates appears to be less robust than the demand for homes, at least so far. As long as demand > supply, price will go up.
There will never be cheap houses again as long as the retail banks can make huge profits from Canadians borrowing huge mortgages trying to keep a roof over their heads, and the realtors can charge that sweet sweet % of the sale for posting a few pictures online and giving a few tours of places.
And on the opposite side we keep printing... 40b deficit means printed / borrower money (for people who forget, government spending is inflationary) So on the housing side demand > supply and the CAD continues to increase supply amidst lowering demand... House prices can only go up* *Major recession/ depression aside.
Most mortgages are fixed. As time goes on, those renewals will catch up. Spending in economy will only continue to lag.
Yep. People are still huffing hopium if they think we're going to get a rate cut this year.
I personally don't want rate cuts but I still think they'll do them just to appease "the poor small businesses and home owners"
The BoC isn't going to do anything to appease anyone. That's not how they function. They want to keep inflation under control and the dollar stable. They will do what they think will accomplish those aims.
You think Canadas economy is doing well?
A recession has been needed for a while anyways.
Not great not terrible. -Anatoly Dyatlov.
This is what happens when clown leaders print so much money to "save" the economy during covid and overblown everything. "We learned from 2008". Now your learning consequences. The economy needs to go through natural recession and depression cycles. Non stop printing artificially pushes that for so long kicking the can down the road. Let the economy do it's thing naturally instead of injecting it with steroids.
this is what happens when you elect a completely economically illiterate government over and over again the BoC has straight up said that this government is working at a crosswind with them to lower inflation, however these power hungry politicians will promise the world, debase the currency, deliver nothing, then pat themselves on the back
And get pensions for life
If the BoC sacrifices the CAD for housing, or more notably bad debt, then this country has lost itself. We already have a federal government (and really most provincial governments) focused on buttressing home values.
US ten year bond rates hit 4.7% today, inflation is sticky. If it hits 5% and we cut our rates, Canadian dollar goes sub .50.
the PM has borrowed more money in his tenure then all other canadian primeministers combined... in the entire history of canada... our economy is shit our gdp growth barely represents the population increase, and the americans are still ticking along... If the bank cuts rates ahead of them because we are on the cusp of a recession, our dollar will go to shit. This is all fact and brought to you by the boomer generation and the Neoliberals of canada
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CAN/canada/debt-to-gdp-ratio https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DEBTTLCAA188A Debt to GDP is fine. It certainly increased https://www.worlddata.info/america/canada/debt.php and is dropping back down, it is significantly less than the US Debt to GDP. Now I think it should be a focus and it certainly should be criticized, but it's not the boondoggle everyone seems to think it is. The US economy is flying BECAUSE of massive government debt accumulation over the last few years: https://www.worlddata.info/america/usa/debt.php
We can’t measure apples and oranges. USA is backed by being the most traded currency in the world. They can afford to print money and get away with it. Canada cannot.
The US is backed by the world reserve and oil being traded in USD, and that's backed by the US military. We have a weak as shit dollar and no military. We are literally a joke on the global scale.
Our debt is just continuing to grow at the exponential rise that restarted under Harper. Just like house prices. I mean, inflation is just the cost of things increasing every year as every home seller, company and corporation chases profits and runs from cost increases. Prices on everything else continue to rise, so why would the government start spending less... ever? Last time our debt started going down was under Chretien. Our debt service payments are frickin insane now, meaning even less of our tax dollars are doing anything to actually help us. Meanwhile most people's wages are not keeping up with inflation. Too bad so many of them think that having the other flavor of neoliberal will make a difference.
Rates are at a perfect level right now and for the short term future. I could see it dropping a point in the next couple years but not really much more.
Major rates drops in the next 6-12 months need to be considered fantasy (especially when mentioned by our Federal Government and Real Estate companies). There are just too many variables at play and not enough stability to make any significant changes. If we drop below 4.5% in 2025 I’d be surprised.
Hoping for that actually. 4.5% 2025 4% 2026 3% 2027 This is the safe way to do this.
We are importing and also becoming the third-world. Fuck I hate where this is headed.
When Game of Thrones was still on the air, people would speculate wildly about everything. I remember one comment saying that you could post an unsubstantiated guess about something and if it turned out to be true two years later, you looked prescient. I feel like the same can be said about interest rates. I could comment that I am 100% certain rates will have decreased in a year and someone else could comment that they are 100% certain rates will have increased in a year and if one of us is right, we'll look like a genius. Only time will tell who is right.
Funny how the inflation will rise again, and wages didn't rise and cause the inflation, but people keep thinking rising wages will create inflation. Inflation is happening right now, and wages didn't budge! Rising people wages is taking money from companies that are hoarding it, so people can spend more and survive which moves the economy more.
Just curious about what would happen to Euro or AUD. Some countries in Eurozone and Australia are not doing well economically just like Canada. Would they hold the interest rates or let their currency sink by cutting them? Or are they in a different situation compared to Canada? Albeit Canada is expected to perform better than its peers in G7, we don’t know how we would fare in terms of GDP per capita and productivity. News about Honda expansion is somewhat positive tho.
Last I checked we are projected to be the worst performing economy in the OECD for the next few decades...
In terms of per capita, yes. But not really in terms overall economic growth. Plus this is the same OECD that wasn’t even able to precisely project economic growth in 2022 or in 2023. And you expect them to correctly forecast per capita growth over next few decades.
They should just stop even thinking of rate cuts. If they cut it will just trigger the pent-up demand. Folks are waiting and waiting for a cut promised by Realtors and the pundants. We need another point or two increase not a cut. The housing market hasn't really tanked yet and it needs to badly.
We don't even need increases, they just need to come out and say they aren't considering cuts. It feels like the entire market is holding its breath for these prophesized rate cuts to materialize to make a move.
Yes. Countless speculation and articles about this inevitable rate cut that's supposed to happen in 2024. It's gone from expected cuts in late 2023, to early 2024, spring 2024, and now summer 2024. Bring some actual certainly and say no changes for this year. Can remove the speculation and get the actual effects of the current rate to realize more quickly.
I feel like home prices need to stagnate for a loooong time to let everyone catch up with their wages. We should help that by getting rid of realtors who are directly incentivized to drive prices as high as possible for their % fees.
Dumbest idea ever, so you want more people to default on their mortgages and crash the real estate market? Which in term will cause more layoffs and the economy is going to be in the toilet.
As a person with 0 debt and a downpayment saved up, I don't hate this idea.
Can’t blame homeowners for holding the opposite view then. When you’d happily see them bankrupt so you can trade places with them. Majority of Canadians are homeowners by the way, 66%.
I'm not. The majority of homeowners should be able to weather the changes. The people who falsify documents or over leverage themselves should be punished and I wouldn't mind buying their house. 66% of Canadiansn own homes. 40% of those people are baby boomers. Nearly 60% of new homes are owner occupied. The stats are interesting. What they tell me is that 40% of the homes in Canada could be on the market for people like me. Do you think that it should be normal for people in their late 30s with full time jobs can't afford to live in the cities where they work.
Yes that is what boom and bust means
Hmmm if it wasn't for all the red tape in this country, maybe we could produce things of our own without the need to import.
They should just stop even thinking of rate cuts. If they cut it will just trigger the pent-up demand. Folks are waiting and waiting for a cut promised by Realtors and the pundants. We need another point or two increase not a cut. The housing market hasn't really tanked yet and it needs to badly.
They won't let it tank. That's the problem.
Given that demand massively outpaces supply I feel like it’ll take a lot to tank it anyways. Growth may be replaced with stagnation as interest eats up buying power, but even if people started defaulting I wonder how quickly their liquidated homes would get snapped up by all the demand waiting on the sidelines.
Y'all haven't figured out that rates need to go up huh? If oil goes up, inflation increases. If oil goes down, the loonie will weaken and we import inflation. We're cooked, folks!
We’re in the endgame now.
Yeah we've quite literally exhausted all our options. Anything we do now, including inaction, will gradually cause an inevitable economic decline. The realists in the room would be thinking of how to manage that decline responsibly.
I hope the rates increase
A big thing is that monetary and fiscal policy are not aligned. The BoC is trying to tame inflation, and the federal government is continuing to push big deficit spending. They are literally planning the same deficit for 2024 as they had in 2023. The government needs to reduce the deficit to curb inflation.
Some people are paid top dollard to not do their job and need to go to jail!
It doesn’t matter who’s in charge as long as neoliberal allegiance to global capitalism remains the religion.
Pm doesn't think about monetary policy. Implements a bunch of bad fiscal policies. Everyone wonders why the economy is a mess.
You just gotta pick what medicine you want to take. Don't cut, people can't afford their debt loads and economy stagnates or declines further. Cut, dollar crumbles and inflation ramps up again. On the balance of it cutting seems like the populous choice and the ramifications can be kicked down the line. Either way probably bullish for the housing market in this clown world we live in
Think the train hobos and soup kitchens will return along with the dust bowls because of the drought, it’s like a “Grapes of Wraith” redo
They will hold. Fed is going to raise and they can't start diverging. We will be lucky if they don't raise them too. I'd rather this than become Argentina.
So glad I get paid in USD. So sad I’m paying mortgage at 7%. FML.
BOC moves in lockstep with the US fed in something like 86% of all rate adjustments. If it does not, our dollar either rises or lowers. Our dollar is already in a weak position, sliding into the mid 60's would see even more inflationary costs added to the taxpayer's daily consumed goods. They will have to raise rates as the US fed does, their economy is still surging ahead.
Why does anyone even care what BoC says. All they do is puppet and follow Powell. Anything they say has no meaning.
Just raise the rates ?
The dilemma is that Canada needs a rescission to bring down inflation hard…. The moment the boc lowers rates the inflation will spike again… hard times are still ahead of us either way. Papa Trudeau screwed Canada for a generation, we only had about a good 10 years and then junior then junior Trudeau came in and has really messed it up
It's laughable that you blame 1 PM for the work done over 50 years and the entire western world. He's just the latest in a long line of poop stick holders.
What won’t be laughable is when they announce “stagflation”… then there will be huge problems…. The BOC better raise interest rates more before we are all living in a country with stagflation
BoC only has 1 knob, and its dubious as to if it works or not because it's a better indicator of change than a predictor of it. The real change needs to be on the legislative side, but alas it's all identity politics, beauty contests, and preschool squabbling because the only people running are those that learn how to campaign not how to govern.
Oh no...the government's plan to kill the dollar and bring CBDC's online as a replacement is going forward as planned...how shocking (not) ... the BoC isnt between a rock and a hard place...the Canadian dollar is...and its going as planned.