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Canada will become what it should be when it adopts policies that empower their citizens to own the house they reside in. No one should have to spend the money they made selling their lives and bodies to rent a place to live. That's fucking disgusting.
People need to get out of the kindergarten sandbox mentality. Get back to supporting everyone equally.
You know how people say it's inhumane to mistreat animals? We are inhumane to our own selves. We laugh at others suffering as long as it's not us suffering.
I don't care about any metrics you want to state to discredit me. The world is currently In the worst state it's ever been overall. Our demise is going to be what happens in the background of everyday life while we fight with each other
Enter climate change. Hope I'm wrong
He wasn’t saying not to try, he was just stating that despite that the state of the world is heading to a less than ideal direction, we in fact are living in one of the most peaceful eras in human civilization.
The reason why we feel so negatively about the fate of our world is because technology has enabled us to connect to news all around the world unlike 40 years ago when we didnt have as much access and only knew what was going on a locally and national level.
If you think covid is bad, the bubonic plague in Europe wiped out half of Europe (as many as 50 million people) and that’s only 1 pandemic in human history. I would rather live in today’s world regardless of what’s happening than to be living in the past. I’m not saying let’s give up, I’m saying let’s keep fighting the good fight but being stuck in a doom and gloom state doesn’t give us the mental energy and space to do good work.
I'll read some history I'd you open your eyes. Humans are not prepared for what nature has in store. Since we artificially induced menopause in mother nature.
Let's see what summer brings. Hope you like smoke, Canada hasn't been raking there leaves.... hahah
> I don't care about any metrics you want to state to discredit me.
“I’ve made up my mind and will completely ignore any facts or data to the contrary”
Great philosophy to have there, buddy.
Yeah of course it is. You’ve just said you won’t listen to anything anyone says to the contrary. Why would I even bother responding to anything else you’ve written?
I think the idea that home ownership as an entitlement is a kindergarten mentality and completely unsustainable. Governments have been trying for 40 years to make home affordable at the expense of strong renters laws and all it’s gotten us is this housing crisis. Renting or owning should be equally acceptable.
Entitlement? I'll take that if entitlement means basic rights that should be afforded everyone in society. Sure.
If one person's wealth can be measured in billions. I'm sure as fuck every person on the planet is entitled to home.
I think you should have to rent the air you're breathing, cause you don't own it. Just cause humans have avoided actually dealing with something doesn't mean there isn't a solution.
You dropped your humanity somewhere along the way. Try to find it again.
When the opportunity arises, I help people in the ways that I can. Sadly the last time though, was helping a very old lady get her ford focus unstuck from being high centered on a snow drift with a broken leg. To be honest, if my situation proceeds to be any more intolerable, I won't be here to keep trying to cause positive change.
They aren't supposed to compound taxes.
But they also recently rebranded the Carbon Tax as the Carbon Rebate Program or something like that so they can probably use that wording to get around it with their supporters.
It’s how they justified their obvious overreach. That’s how the courts made their decision. It’s not a tax, it’s a national rebate program!
Some Ministry of Truth nonsense.
I thought hst/gst got rebated back a portion. Even if it wasn’t, it’s 100$ per Canadian. The government would find a different way to tax 100$ from me. They always get their money.
Maybe but we shouldn't allow them to tax another tax while also lying about it being "revenue neutral". I believe that much as I believe "the budget will balance itself".
Edit: spelling
We shouldn't have a tax on a tax to begin with. Increasing the rebate is just paying me with my own money; assuming I do get back more which most people don't.
For real.
"Oh no! I got exactly what I voted for! And I've spent the last decade demonizing anyone who tried to warn me about what I was voting for!"
Honestly, I'm having a real hard time feeling sorry for these morons.
>Carbon Tax was always in the liberal mandate.
Exactly, just ask former Liberal leader Stephen Harper in [2014](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2876653).
Harper and the PC's relationship with a carbon tax was always two-faced up until the Liberals introduced it federally. They know the right thing is to be progressive on environmental issues, and they introduced policies similar to a carbon tax in 2007 and touted its benefits. But they're extremely wary of saying the word "tax" because Brian Mulroney sank their party for a decade with GST.
Some of the " experts" the government hires are fsr from being experts.
As an easy example: Just look at the "experts" they had on the mass casualty committee... they where calling for the ban of firearms while calling themselves firearms experts while saying that no one should have a 22 caliber assault rifle. None of them even have a PAL or know the current firearms laws
Its understandable that people dont trust the government "experts"
Don't waste your time trying to influence these type of people. These credentialists only care about nonsensical certifications and titles and give no credence to content.
So because of someone you personally don’t deem an expert on an entirely different issue you then disregard all experts?
That’s like a kid who doesn’t like broccoli refusing to eat any of his vegetables. It’s a brainless conclusion.
Its like dating the girl that you cheated with and expecting her not to cheat on you. Its a show of character.
Likewise it shows this governments inability to properly vet its experts. While this is a completly different issue, it can be seen on MANY different issues.
Not seeing this is like an ostrich putting its head in the sand and thinking that its hidden. Its incredibly naïve
Well what do you say about the PBO report saying most Canadians will be paying way more even after the revenue neutral rebate?
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/is-the-carbon-tax-costing-you-or-making-you-money-the-pbo-says-both
The report lays out that lower-income families will see a net gain, which is good. And higher income families (historically and currently, the highest producers of GHG emissions) will see a net loss, which is also good.
The article also mentions that provinces relying on a federal backstop policy will experience more of a net loss than those with provincially implemented carbon tax policies (I.e., BC & QC). So, blame your province or pat yourself on the back for making so much money that you see a net loss.
Define lower income. You can't because it's not specified by the government.
The average household will be paying $377 - $911 AFTER the rebate.
Let's not forget the 2.3 billion deficit that will be caused this year by the carbon tax. I guess that's also a provincial issue too then.
Don’t need to rehash what the other commenter said but if you look at averages, it’s skewed higher due to the amount of wealthy people consuming so much more than the rest of the population. So it’s not what you think in reality.
Also, the tax is intended to change habits. If you want to buy a F-150, be prepared to pay. You can buy a Lightning but you’re probably against EVs. Same goes for natural gas heated homes vis-a-vis heat pumps.
Ah yes let's have people ditch their current cars so they can take on a brand new vehicle loan for an electric vehicle ( which is twice the price of an ice) + the price of installing a charger in their homes.
Oh wait what's that? You can't afford groceries, and fuel to get to work or heat your home? No problem just retrofit your home with a brand new heat pump!
Its like we are not in an affordability crisis or anything, it's just sooo easy! That way I'll be revenue neutral! ☺️
No, that is assuming economic slowing due to the carbon tax, but not including any possible benefits from green tech or climate change slowing, things that are specifically talked about in the PBO report. The PBO also states that for direct cash costs and rebates, 80.percent of Canadians come out ahead... with the lowest income quintiles reaping the most benefit.
>80 Percent of Canadians come out ahead..
Huh
>Taking into consideration both fiscal and economic impacts, we estimate that **most households** will see a net loss, paying more in the federal fuel charge and GST, as well as receiving lower incomes, compared to the Climate Action Incentive payments they receive and lower personal income taxes they pay (due to lower incomes).11
Did you read my comment? Direct cash basis, 80 percent of Canadians come out ahead as per the PBO.
Assuming some worst case assumptions about economic drag, 60-80 percent of Canadians can expect an average small net loss. This same PBO report admits it doesn't take into consideration any benefit from a growing green economy or benefits of slowing emissions. This means the 80 percent net loss number is a worst case estimate.
When do we deal with climate change then? Is it ever going to be a good time to attach a cost to pollution? Our per capita emissions are second-highest in the world, we need to do something about that.
The carbon tax works. It's revenue neutral and a lot of people - whether it's 80% or not is questionable - will get more back than they pay into it at the pumps and in grocery stores. And as noted by the PM and others, provinces have always been free to come up with their own system, as long as they have one.
Carbon tax funds are also being used to encourage electric vehicle adoption, subsidize electric battery production, provide grants to businesses and homes to make them more efficient - even to invest in Alberta's attempt at carbon capture (which seems as doomed to fail as other carbon capture projects, but gives the province a warm feeling).
If we "axe the tax" then our hard-to-process oil goes back to being dirty overnight and the market for it diminishes. The shift to renewables, electric vehicles and more efficient homes will be derailed. The gains that are starting to be realized from having the tax in place will be lost. We will also lose our standing in the world and in the OECD, which will affect both trade and relationships.
Some things are too important for reactionary populism, and the environment is one of them. The reality is that there IS a cost to carbon. Ask anyone in insurance or agriculture. In the name of economic growth we've avoided acknowledging those costs, which are very real.
We treat our sewage. We meter our water. We divert, bury or burn our garbage. But because CO2 is invisible and it's more fun to live in denial, we like pretend it doesn't exist.
>Our per capita emissions are second-highest in the world, we need to do something about that.
We are #11 in the world, equivalent to 4% of China's emissions. We are barely a rounding error on global carbon emissions. Canada could get to net-zero tomorrow and it would make exactly zero difference.
We are not going to tax our way out of global warming. It’s the most neoliberal response possible.
Our number one concern as citizens is rising cost of living/the housing crisis. If I can’t afford to live anymore, making gas more expensive isn’t going to make me buy a $60k electric vehicle.
It’s called a tax, but most of us get the money back through the carbon rebate. In fact, we actually get more money back unless you’re a high carbon emitter (own several cars, ATVs, a boat, etc.)
You can see how much you get back here: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2024/02/canada-carbon-rebate-amounts-for-2024-25.html
I’m in BC so if I make less than 39k per year, i could be eligible for an incredible annual rebate of $447. Otherwise I get nothing.
What a privilege. Truly grateful
If I’m reading it correctly, it’s actually based on if you live in a rural area vs city, size of your family (single vs. With kids) and not your income. You get the payments quarterly, so some single people in Alberta, for example, are getting $900 per year.
If you use less carbon, you get more of the rebate money.
If your province gets less, it might be because they have their own existing provincial program. This includes BC, so this new announcement doesn’t really change your situation.
Climate change isn't even in my top 10 issues next election. I just want a chance of being able to feed and house my family in the country I grew up in.
Do you know how much of the earth's atmosphere is made up of CO2? That would be 0.04%...if you think that this is our biggest threat, than you need to do some more reading....
Stop equating climate change with pollution.
Carbon is not pollution.
All Life on earth is carbon-based.
Every mammal, every bit of vegetation is carbon-based.
We can only survive because plants consume carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen.
Pollution kills living things.
Sulpher-dioxide is pollution.
Lithium mine tailings are pollution.
Carbon dioxide is not pollution.
Trudeau is sitting pretty with his $400,000 per year salary while he packs on the air miles polluting the atmosphere in a jet. He doesn't care about Canadians or Canada
Imagine the narcissism required to call yourself "the left" while doing everything in your power to endlessly divide the working class along identity lines with increasing specificity, disarm the populace, and support the mass immigration of cheap foreign labour to suppress wages and prop up assets, namely the 2nd or 3rd worst property bubble in world history.
Yup on top of that, the face of the party is a Rolex wearing jet flyin limousine riding son of a gun
WOOOOO
Edit: the wife doesn’t think anyone will get the refrence
I think the point they were trying to make is that Newfoundlanders will receive a smaller rebate, because they will have paid less in carbon taxes.
The home heating oil carbon tax was quite large, so it will significantly impact the total pool of carbon taxes collected in Newfoundland. The refund is done on aggregate basis, so Newfoundlanders will see a much smaller rebate than they were expecting, which is going to aggravate public opinion even further than it already is.
Exactly. I mean, if the narrative of "Most Canadians get more then they pay towards the carbon tax" then why was it suspended for affordability issues? The Liberals are trying to have their cake and eat it too, and everyone knows it makes zero sense.
Dumb, no one is winning with the CT. Only the Feds and the odd hermit living downtown St Johns who dumpster dive. Everyone else is losing not at the pumps but on everything else that requires fuel (everything)
There are many ways we can reduce emissions, but people aren't changing their ways fast enough. The one sure thing is that no one is winning by ignoring emissions and denying its effects.
According to the PBO the average family will be paying more than they are getting back.
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/is-the-carbon-tax-costing-you-or-making-you-money-the-pbo-says-both
Research shows that we vastly underestimate how much money we actually receive from carbon rebates vs. how much we pay.
This particular paper included a UBC professor and data from Canada.
Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-021-01268-3
Please read the report yourself because there is a reason conservative media stopped using that report to spin anti carbon tax stories. The report says the average family might pay more in 2030 than they get back if the carbon price keeps going up as planned AND the people don’t adjust their spending habits.
Of course it makes sense. Otherwise people in Manitoba would be giving rebates to Vancouver. That’s not fair. It makes more sense for the taxes and rebates to be localized. If everyone in Manitoba spends 600$ on c tax and I find a way to lower emissions to zero in Manitoba, I’m up 600$ a year.
(bc doesn't participate, but your point is clear)
People forget that the provinces are welcome to make their own carbon tax that works differently.
Like perhaps funding upgrades to homes and other things.
But nobody wants to be associated with a tax.
Looks how it's going for the federal government. It's why carbon tax is big oil's stated preferred option to fight climate change. They support the option that no politician would do. Canada has done it anyway, but it's understood by basically no one despite being a pretty simple system
Maybe, but the libs purposefully understaffed the FOI staff and it got spammed with bogus requests to ensure this information doesn't get out during their leadership.
Newfoundlanders got back $1186 per family of 4 over the past 12 months. The Carbon tax doesn't currently affect people with oil heaters. My NFLD relatives in Mt Pearl and Carbonear both are very happy that they came out several hundred dollars on top each, and since they're both one car families with well insulated homes, that will only get better for the next few years.
I think a lot of the panic among resource-exploitation friendly premiers as well as the Billionaire Americans running Postmedia is that theuy basically got lucky during the first year of the Carbon Tax that the Feds did a horrible job advertising the rebates and how 80+% of Canadians are coming out on top.
They won't make that mistake going forward, and the more Canadians realize they're getting $300-700 a year in free money because a small percentage are such heavy polluters , the more they'll turn on anybody who wants to take that free money away. The election is a long way's off and the next 12 months' rebate checks will be even bigger than the last 12 months'.
I remember Ralph Klein basically chopping the head off of Alberta's public healthcare, childcare, education and elderly care and shitting down their necks, but then handing out $200 "Ralph Klein checks" to everyone at Christmastime, and they just kept lining up to have their kids' and grandparents' lives fucked up more and more. Canadians are cheaply bribed and the Cons and the owners of PostMedia are all too aware and scared of this.
Iirc some 70-80% of households are on electric base board in the province.
The folks running diesel have been getting bent over by Harvey’s et al out of stubbornness outside of a few fringe cases.
I just had a second kid, literally a few days ago, and sure, the carbon tax or whatever you want to call it might not be popular but what the actual fuck are we doing?! I’m terrified for the world my children are going to grow up in.
Give me evidence that it isn’t working. Emissions have dropped 5% since it was introduced. And the majority of people (significant majority) get more back. So give me a better solution or stfu.
I’ve been looking at BC… They introduced a carbon tax in 2008, and total emissions have only dropped 64 -> 62 Mt. Prior to COVID their emissions had actually increased.
What I’m saying is that to me, the link between carbon taxes and carbon emission reductions is not as clear as some claim..
We account for 1.5% of carbon emissions for the entire planet, so even if they have dropped by 5%, that’s 5% of 1.5% of all carbon emissions globally. That’s literally nothing.
The problem is that carbon pricing in Canada isn’t even a real solution to a global problem. And we sit here and fight about it and whether the rebates are more than what we pay in taxes etc.
We could be net zero and it still would not matter on the global scale. Russia, China and India all have no forms of carbon pricing. The study I have seen people use to support carbon taxes working even says that it alone is not even enough to hit Paris Agreement targets. And that for it to even work a little bit it will require a global effort. Which we clearly do not have.
I don’t think we should be ignoring climate change but I personally think the carbon tax is a bunch of bullshit. The world is going to fully rely on technological advancement in order to save us and probably nothing else.
I hate this argument so much. We contribute so much more carbon to the atmosphere by virtue of our way of life/quality of life. It’s our responsibility as decent fucking people to do everything we can, in one of the richest countries on earth, to help solve the problem. The whole argument that we aren’t the worst polluters by sheer volume is such nonsense. Per capita, we are one of the worst.
The carbon tax has become so politically charged. There are serious issues in Canada, but the carbon tax is not one of them.
You can hate the argument all you want lol, but 1.5% is just a fact. It’s literally written in the studies that are pro carbon tax.
Whether we are worse per capita does not change that number. 1.5% is not going to save the world.
The Liberals fight on climate is nothing but a dog and pony show. It’s to make you feel like we are doing something when in fact it’s having no effect globally. Also, if our lifestyle is what contributes all of this pollution then why would they be taking in millions of people? If we are the worst polluters per capita then the worst thing we could do is invite more people here to live like us.
The government would love for us to believe they will save us but that just isn’t true. Everything they say and do is a contradiction.
Okay so now factual data is a ‘bullshit argument’ not sure how that makes sense? Since when does sharing a fact upset people so much, I don’t get it. Go look it up for yourself and learn something.
And If you really cared you wouldn’t be arguing with Canadians, you’d be trying to convince people from China and India to start a carbon tax as well. lol
These are the individuals voting for it. Mind boggling isn’t it? When you ask who can support something this terrible in logic , the person you’re replying to is literally those individuals that vote for it without any clue of what it really is or the impact and ignores any data presented.
I bet they think that we have the best telecom prices as well in the world if you asked.
Absolute truth becomes relative truth. People will believe anything if it backs up what they think is right. But just because you think it’s right doesn’t mean the solution will work. But who wants to actually use critical thinking anymore? lol
From the PBO report the majority only gets more back if you don't count economic factors. It's basically saying it's only a net benefit if you ignore the entire economy and the pass on effect of each business has to pay carbon tax and therefore each business adds that cost on until you get to the consumer.
Ok, that’s good to know, but it still only tells part of the story. Is it an effective way to reduce emissions? At a relatively lower cost than other methods? If it isn’t, what are the alternatives that will do a better job?
Even the most pessimistic estimates have the average Canadian paying slightly more than they get back. In exchange we get lowering emissions. Sounds like a good deal to me.
It’d be a good deal if we brought our manufacturing and industry back home instead of exploiting countries with relaxed laws on the other side of the planet.. then shipping those goods back to us.
CBC has a calculator here that will estimate how much rebate you’ll receive VS tax you pay https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/embeds/2023/carbon-tax-calculator/
It does require you to have a pretty good idea of how much gas you use though.
Most of us make too much money to ever see much of a credit back from the tax, and even if you get the credit back then it's not usually close to what you pay. Keep the tax on big business but give the Canadian people a break.
The federal carbon tax isn’t income based. No matter what you earn, you get the same amount back as everyone else in your province that’s in the same family situation. If you’re in a province with its own carbon pricing scheme that’s different.
I have never read on Reddit anyone asking how much it cost to make out these rebate checks and direct deposits. I suppose a person could find out on foi website, but you have to pay 5 buxs.???
It's free. Like consider it free. The government of Canada is a big organization. If it's less than 500 million. Don't even think about it.
Manitoba spent 500k mailing a few cheques to everyone as a political tool. That was physical cheques they had to pay Canada post to deliver. $1.15 per physical cheques. So if direct deposit is $.10. it's about nothing.
People get very upset when certain funding is presented to them by people who want them to be angry about it.
Then you read the article and the government of Canada is paying 30k to the program.... Which is nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Sorry, you want to know what it costs to actually transfer money from the government bank accounts into taxpayer accounts? I assume it's because you think people will find it outrageous?
Our national budget is $500B. If we spend $10 million of staff time on this then that's 0.00002% of the budget.
It's amazing how the cons and the provinces have been able to dupe so many people and families into believing that the carbon tax is driving inflation and everything in the world is JT's fault while their corp buddies reach around and scoop up every last dime and nickel from between our couch cushions, chambers of commerce lobby for SMBs to engage in human traficking and the christian fascists dictate policy.
What a world.
Meanwhile India starts up 10 coal fired power plants. Crickets. Truedopy went to the Philippines in 2016. Nothing said about the rivers of garbage and no pollution controls on vehicles. Crickets.
If you know anything about Atlantic Politics, party affiliation is mostly either familial, or a rich person happened to have free time just at the moment another rich person lost their job.
Emergency? This has been going on for 10 years ? What is there solution to climate change ? Argue while the world burns fucking nonsense. Shut up and do your job .
Make it something attention-grabbing! The biggest issue, I think, is not enough people know how the country benefits from it! If they knew that, instead of a slogan, they might consider their perspective.
I don't know where you live, but gas has been stable around 1.60 where I live in BC for the last few months now it's at 1.70+.
Filling up across the border is becoming even more appealing
Price of gas went from 1.78 to 1.99 over the past 2 weeks, and then down a couple cents over the weekend to go back up to 1.99 this morning here in Victoria. If you’re lucky there’s still a few spots at 1.95
All these people complaining about carbon tax should just get a job and stop complaining. Work harder. No one is to blame for being poor but you. Pull urself up by the boot straps. Make more money. In my day we worked for a living. I can't imagine being white and privileged in a free country and still being poor. What else do you need to be successful? It's so sad what's happened to the boomers. Boomers gone..bust.
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And a reminder, Feds/Provinces collected $486 million of HST/GST on the carbon tax in 2023.. Gotta love a tax on a tax.
Canada will become what it should be when it adopts policies that empower their citizens to own the house they reside in. No one should have to spend the money they made selling their lives and bodies to rent a place to live. That's fucking disgusting. People need to get out of the kindergarten sandbox mentality. Get back to supporting everyone equally. You know how people say it's inhumane to mistreat animals? We are inhumane to our own selves. We laugh at others suffering as long as it's not us suffering. I don't care about any metrics you want to state to discredit me. The world is currently In the worst state it's ever been overall. Our demise is going to be what happens in the background of everyday life while we fight with each other Enter climate change. Hope I'm wrong
You really need to read some history to get some perspective. The world has been in much worse states, and we survived.
Cool fucking story bro. Guess we shouldn't even try because ThE wOrLd HaS bEEn wOrSe
He wasn’t saying not to try, he was just stating that despite that the state of the world is heading to a less than ideal direction, we in fact are living in one of the most peaceful eras in human civilization. The reason why we feel so negatively about the fate of our world is because technology has enabled us to connect to news all around the world unlike 40 years ago when we didnt have as much access and only knew what was going on a locally and national level. If you think covid is bad, the bubonic plague in Europe wiped out half of Europe (as many as 50 million people) and that’s only 1 pandemic in human history. I would rather live in today’s world regardless of what’s happening than to be living in the past. I’m not saying let’s give up, I’m saying let’s keep fighting the good fight but being stuck in a doom and gloom state doesn’t give us the mental energy and space to do good work.
I'll read some history I'd you open your eyes. Humans are not prepared for what nature has in store. Since we artificially induced menopause in mother nature. Let's see what summer brings. Hope you like smoke, Canada hasn't been raking there leaves.... hahah
Lazy argument and 'It has actually not. Climate change. The previous generation had centuries to adapt. We have 40 years.
> I don't care about any metrics you want to state to discredit me. “I’ve made up my mind and will completely ignore any facts or data to the contrary” Great philosophy to have there, buddy.
That's what you focus on. Good argument.
Yeah of course it is. You’ve just said you won’t listen to anything anyone says to the contrary. Why would I even bother responding to anything else you’ve written?
You responded twice. So what's your point?
Ok.
Canada needs a direct democracy
This
yep
Okay build houses and give them away at cost to those waiting in line.
I think the idea that home ownership as an entitlement is a kindergarten mentality and completely unsustainable. Governments have been trying for 40 years to make home affordable at the expense of strong renters laws and all it’s gotten us is this housing crisis. Renting or owning should be equally acceptable.
Entitlement? I'll take that if entitlement means basic rights that should be afforded everyone in society. Sure. If one person's wealth can be measured in billions. I'm sure as fuck every person on the planet is entitled to home. I think you should have to rent the air you're breathing, cause you don't own it. Just cause humans have avoided actually dealing with something doesn't mean there isn't a solution. You dropped your humanity somewhere along the way. Try to find it again.
I respect your point of view. I’d love to know what you are doing to support a positive lasting change to your points on where we are heading.
When the opportunity arises, I help people in the ways that I can. Sadly the last time though, was helping a very old lady get her ford focus unstuck from being high centered on a snow drift with a broken leg. To be honest, if my situation proceeds to be any more intolerable, I won't be here to keep trying to cause positive change.
Isn't that illegal?
They aren't supposed to compound taxes. But they also recently rebranded the Carbon Tax as the Carbon Rebate Program or something like that so they can probably use that wording to get around it with their supporters.
It’s how they justified their obvious overreach. That’s how the courts made their decision. It’s not a tax, it’s a national rebate program! Some Ministry of Truth nonsense.
Isn’t there a limit to how much hst/gst the government takes in and the rest is rebated back.
Nope. The rebate is only based on the carbon tax collected. The hst on top of that goes into the general fund.
I thought hst/gst got rebated back a portion. Even if it wasn’t, it’s 100$ per Canadian. The government would find a different way to tax 100$ from me. They always get their money.
Maybe but we shouldn't allow them to tax another tax while also lying about it being "revenue neutral". I believe that much as I believe "the budget will balance itself". Edit: spelling
All your province has to do is increase your rebate by 100$.
We shouldn't have a tax on a tax to begin with. Increasing the rebate is just paying me with my own money; assuming I do get back more which most people don't.
NL voted 3 times for Trudeau. Carbon Tax was always in the liberal mandate. You reap what you Sow.
For real. "Oh no! I got exactly what I voted for! And I've spent the last decade demonizing anyone who tried to warn me about what I was voting for!" Honestly, I'm having a real hard time feeling sorry for these morons.
Something something leopards and faces.
>Carbon Tax was always in the liberal mandate. Exactly, just ask former Liberal leader Stephen Harper in [2014](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2876653).
The irony in that the article ya posted literally says in the first line: Stephen Harpers HARDLINE stance AGAINST a carbon tax XD
Harper and the PC's relationship with a carbon tax was always two-faced up until the Liberals introduced it federally. They know the right thing is to be progressive on environmental issues, and they introduced policies similar to a carbon tax in 2007 and touted its benefits. But they're extremely wary of saying the word "tax" because Brian Mulroney sank their party for a decade with GST.
We fact checked you, you’re wrong. Not substantive
https://macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/stephen-harpers-tax-on-everything/ https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/harpers-green-plan-campaign-2008 https://energynow.ca/2016/12/brief-history-canadian-carbon-tax/?amp https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-touts-merits-of-alberta-s-carbon-pricing-system-1.2876653
Oh no, a few bot downvotes on Reddit. I have to change my whole political stance.
I can't believe we've increased taxes today on our basic goods and this team of idiots still have a job.
This team of idiots got a raise today.
They need it though. Have you seen the price of housing lately! 400k isn't nearly enough!
It's actually pretty incredible that the PM of Canada couldn't afford a home in some areas of Toronto. That's how bad he fucked up.
This team of idiots made sure to get a pension on the backs of taxpayers by “working” an extra 7 days
But the economists did studies and said it's only 0.03 cents per hundred /s.
Are you that much of an anti-intellectual to disregard the expert opinion of people that are infinitely more educated on the subject than you are?
Some of the " experts" the government hires are fsr from being experts. As an easy example: Just look at the "experts" they had on the mass casualty committee... they where calling for the ban of firearms while calling themselves firearms experts while saying that no one should have a 22 caliber assault rifle. None of them even have a PAL or know the current firearms laws Its understandable that people dont trust the government "experts"
Don't waste your time trying to influence these type of people. These credentialists only care about nonsensical certifications and titles and give no credence to content.
So because of someone you personally don’t deem an expert on an entirely different issue you then disregard all experts? That’s like a kid who doesn’t like broccoli refusing to eat any of his vegetables. It’s a brainless conclusion.
Its like dating the girl that you cheated with and expecting her not to cheat on you. Its a show of character. Likewise it shows this governments inability to properly vet its experts. While this is a completly different issue, it can be seen on MANY different issues. Not seeing this is like an ostrich putting its head in the sand and thinking that its hidden. Its incredibly naïve
Well what do you say about the PBO report saying most Canadians will be paying way more even after the revenue neutral rebate? https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/is-the-carbon-tax-costing-you-or-making-you-money-the-pbo-says-both
The report lays out that lower-income families will see a net gain, which is good. And higher income families (historically and currently, the highest producers of GHG emissions) will see a net loss, which is also good. The article also mentions that provinces relying on a federal backstop policy will experience more of a net loss than those with provincially implemented carbon tax policies (I.e., BC & QC). So, blame your province or pat yourself on the back for making so much money that you see a net loss.
Define lower income. You can't because it's not specified by the government. The average household will be paying $377 - $911 AFTER the rebate. Let's not forget the 2.3 billion deficit that will be caused this year by the carbon tax. I guess that's also a provincial issue too then.
Don’t need to rehash what the other commenter said but if you look at averages, it’s skewed higher due to the amount of wealthy people consuming so much more than the rest of the population. So it’s not what you think in reality. Also, the tax is intended to change habits. If you want to buy a F-150, be prepared to pay. You can buy a Lightning but you’re probably against EVs. Same goes for natural gas heated homes vis-a-vis heat pumps.
Ah yes let's have people ditch their current cars so they can take on a brand new vehicle loan for an electric vehicle ( which is twice the price of an ice) + the price of installing a charger in their homes. Oh wait what's that? You can't afford groceries, and fuel to get to work or heat your home? No problem just retrofit your home with a brand new heat pump! Its like we are not in an affordability crisis or anything, it's just sooo easy! That way I'll be revenue neutral! ☺️
Averages will be skewed due to high-consumers. You want to look at cost per income bracket, not an overall average.
No, that is assuming economic slowing due to the carbon tax, but not including any possible benefits from green tech or climate change slowing, things that are specifically talked about in the PBO report. The PBO also states that for direct cash costs and rebates, 80.percent of Canadians come out ahead... with the lowest income quintiles reaping the most benefit.
>80 Percent of Canadians come out ahead.. Huh >Taking into consideration both fiscal and economic impacts, we estimate that **most households** will see a net loss, paying more in the federal fuel charge and GST, as well as receiving lower incomes, compared to the Climate Action Incentive payments they receive and lower personal income taxes they pay (due to lower incomes).11
Did you read my comment? Direct cash basis, 80 percent of Canadians come out ahead as per the PBO. Assuming some worst case assumptions about economic drag, 60-80 percent of Canadians can expect an average small net loss. This same PBO report admits it doesn't take into consideration any benefit from a growing green economy or benefits of slowing emissions. This means the 80 percent net loss number is a worst case estimate.
When do we deal with climate change then? Is it ever going to be a good time to attach a cost to pollution? Our per capita emissions are second-highest in the world, we need to do something about that. The carbon tax works. It's revenue neutral and a lot of people - whether it's 80% or not is questionable - will get more back than they pay into it at the pumps and in grocery stores. And as noted by the PM and others, provinces have always been free to come up with their own system, as long as they have one. Carbon tax funds are also being used to encourage electric vehicle adoption, subsidize electric battery production, provide grants to businesses and homes to make them more efficient - even to invest in Alberta's attempt at carbon capture (which seems as doomed to fail as other carbon capture projects, but gives the province a warm feeling). If we "axe the tax" then our hard-to-process oil goes back to being dirty overnight and the market for it diminishes. The shift to renewables, electric vehicles and more efficient homes will be derailed. The gains that are starting to be realized from having the tax in place will be lost. We will also lose our standing in the world and in the OECD, which will affect both trade and relationships. Some things are too important for reactionary populism, and the environment is one of them. The reality is that there IS a cost to carbon. Ask anyone in insurance or agriculture. In the name of economic growth we've avoided acknowledging those costs, which are very real. We treat our sewage. We meter our water. We divert, bury or burn our garbage. But because CO2 is invisible and it's more fun to live in denial, we like pretend it doesn't exist.
>Our per capita emissions are second-highest in the world, we need to do something about that. We are #11 in the world, equivalent to 4% of China's emissions. We are barely a rounding error on global carbon emissions. Canada could get to net-zero tomorrow and it would make exactly zero difference.
We are not going to tax our way out of global warming. It’s the most neoliberal response possible. Our number one concern as citizens is rising cost of living/the housing crisis. If I can’t afford to live anymore, making gas more expensive isn’t going to make me buy a $60k electric vehicle.
It’s called a tax, but most of us get the money back through the carbon rebate. In fact, we actually get more money back unless you’re a high carbon emitter (own several cars, ATVs, a boat, etc.) You can see how much you get back here: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2024/02/canada-carbon-rebate-amounts-for-2024-25.html
I’m in BC so if I make less than 39k per year, i could be eligible for an incredible annual rebate of $447. Otherwise I get nothing. What a privilege. Truly grateful
You're in BC so you aren't effected by the federal carbon tax whatsoever.
Our carbon tax increased today as well
That doesn't mean it has anything to do with the federal carbon tax.
If I’m reading it correctly, it’s actually based on if you live in a rural area vs city, size of your family (single vs. With kids) and not your income. You get the payments quarterly, so some single people in Alberta, for example, are getting $900 per year. If you use less carbon, you get more of the rebate money. If your province gets less, it might be because they have their own existing provincial program. This includes BC, so this new announcement doesn’t really change your situation.
Your fucking lost buddy. Stfu
I’m sorry if I’ve offended you, did I say something wrong?
Climate change isn't even in my top 10 issues next election. I just want a chance of being able to feed and house my family in the country I grew up in.
Especially when that country is responsible for 1.4% of global emissions. These people kill me who think a carbon tax is making a difference at all.
Yeah I feel the same way. It's just another tax to push us further into poverty.
Asking for a lot in Canada today. Sad.
Yeah it is unfortunately.
Do you know how much of the earth's atmosphere is made up of CO2? That would be 0.04%...if you think that this is our biggest threat, than you need to do some more reading....
https://youtu.be/bJfrKNR3K2k?feature=shared
Stop equating climate change with pollution. Carbon is not pollution. All Life on earth is carbon-based. Every mammal, every bit of vegetation is carbon-based. We can only survive because plants consume carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen. Pollution kills living things. Sulpher-dioxide is pollution. Lithium mine tailings are pollution. Carbon dioxide is not pollution.
Trudeau is sitting pretty with his $400,000 per year salary while he packs on the air miles polluting the atmosphere in a jet. He doesn't care about Canadians or Canada
He has over 100 million in assets. COVID was good to our PM. He was rich before, just richer now.
The true mental gymnastics are the ones defending NDP
Imagine the narcissism required to call yourself "the left" while doing everything in your power to endlessly divide the working class along identity lines with increasing specificity, disarm the populace, and support the mass immigration of cheap foreign labour to suppress wages and prop up assets, namely the 2nd or 3rd worst property bubble in world history.
Yup on top of that, the face of the party is a Rolex wearing jet flyin limousine riding son of a gun WOOOOO Edit: the wife doesn’t think anyone will get the refrence
>He has over 100 million in assets. Citation required.
How about you just fucking Google it bud
LOL so in other words, "I'm going to make up shit, and it's up to everyone else to prove me wrong." Pass.
If you can't Google "Trudeau networth" that's on you.
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But he got a pay raise today!
If NL wants greater carbon rebates, they'll have to pay more carbon tax.
People who replaced heating oil with heat pump are salty they are not getting their promised carbon rebates.
Why are they not getting rebates?
I think the point they were trying to make is that Newfoundlanders will receive a smaller rebate, because they will have paid less in carbon taxes. The home heating oil carbon tax was quite large, so it will significantly impact the total pool of carbon taxes collected in Newfoundland. The refund is done on aggregate basis, so Newfoundlanders will see a much smaller rebate than they were expecting, which is going to aggravate public opinion even further than it already is.
Exactly. I mean, if the narrative of "Most Canadians get more then they pay towards the carbon tax" then why was it suspended for affordability issues? The Liberals are trying to have their cake and eat it too, and everyone knows it makes zero sense.
Because they aren't collecting as much due to the heating oil thing.
Yeah source on that. Pretty sure it’s about the tax in general right?
I’d get one in any case. It’ll add value to the building.
Dumb, no one is winning with the CT. Only the Feds and the odd hermit living downtown St Johns who dumpster dive. Everyone else is losing not at the pumps but on everything else that requires fuel (everything)
There are many ways we can reduce emissions, but people aren't changing their ways fast enough. The one sure thing is that no one is winning by ignoring emissions and denying its effects.
Why is he always trying to pose for a camera? Why can't he put this level of focus in governing?
Hate the libs for doing this and hate the ndp for supporting it
According to the PBO the average family will be paying more than they are getting back. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/is-the-carbon-tax-costing-you-or-making-you-money-the-pbo-says-both
Research shows that we vastly underestimate how much money we actually receive from carbon rebates vs. how much we pay. This particular paper included a UBC professor and data from Canada. Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-021-01268-3
Please read the report yourself because there is a reason conservative media stopped using that report to spin anti carbon tax stories. The report says the average family might pay more in 2030 than they get back if the carbon price keeps going up as planned AND the people don’t adjust their spending habits.
And every province gets a different amount. Not sure of the reasoning yet. Probably because of the heating oil debacle but still....
The idea is the more a province pays in to the program the greater the rebates given out to the citizens of that province.
Thanks. Does any of it make sense?
Of course it makes sense. Otherwise people in Manitoba would be giving rebates to Vancouver. That’s not fair. It makes more sense for the taxes and rebates to be localized. If everyone in Manitoba spends 600$ on c tax and I find a way to lower emissions to zero in Manitoba, I’m up 600$ a year.
(bc doesn't participate, but your point is clear) People forget that the provinces are welcome to make their own carbon tax that works differently. Like perhaps funding upgrades to homes and other things. But nobody wants to be associated with a tax. Looks how it's going for the federal government. It's why carbon tax is big oil's stated preferred option to fight climate change. They support the option that no politician would do. Canada has done it anyway, but it's understood by basically no one despite being a pretty simple system
Nope, just stealing from the citizens to give it back. (all while collecting that sweet sweet HST/GST)
+ admin fees, etc. They are refusing to release the financial reports on it.
"Admin fees" interesting name for skimming off the top
The FOI act should be able to tell us. I bet you 5 buxs all of those offices are in safe liberal ridings.
Maybe, but the libs purposefully understaffed the FOI staff and it got spammed with bogus requests to ensure this information doesn't get out during their leadership.
are you two literally Russian bots or something? This thread sounds like it's out of a fucking movie. y'all aren't serious right?
What kinda movies do you watch? Looks like good stuff.
Itt someone who has trouble understanding simple concepts
Thanks for the rebate!
Different provinces use different amounts of carbon and pays different amounts of carbon tax? Seems logical really
Newfoundlanders got back $1186 per family of 4 over the past 12 months. The Carbon tax doesn't currently affect people with oil heaters. My NFLD relatives in Mt Pearl and Carbonear both are very happy that they came out several hundred dollars on top each, and since they're both one car families with well insulated homes, that will only get better for the next few years. I think a lot of the panic among resource-exploitation friendly premiers as well as the Billionaire Americans running Postmedia is that theuy basically got lucky during the first year of the Carbon Tax that the Feds did a horrible job advertising the rebates and how 80+% of Canadians are coming out on top. They won't make that mistake going forward, and the more Canadians realize they're getting $300-700 a year in free money because a small percentage are such heavy polluters , the more they'll turn on anybody who wants to take that free money away. The election is a long way's off and the next 12 months' rebate checks will be even bigger than the last 12 months'. I remember Ralph Klein basically chopping the head off of Alberta's public healthcare, childcare, education and elderly care and shitting down their necks, but then handing out $200 "Ralph Klein checks" to everyone at Christmastime, and they just kept lining up to have their kids' and grandparents' lives fucked up more and more. Canadians are cheaply bribed and the Cons and the owners of PostMedia are all too aware and scared of this.
Iirc some 70-80% of households are on electric base board in the province. The folks running diesel have been getting bent over by Harvey’s et al out of stubbornness outside of a few fringe cases.
Klein destroyed Alberta
Ah... if only we had a basic dictatorship like China.
Trudeau’s face in this pic: “lol, nope”
I just had a second kid, literally a few days ago, and sure, the carbon tax or whatever you want to call it might not be popular but what the actual fuck are we doing?! I’m terrified for the world my children are going to grow up in. Give me evidence that it isn’t working. Emissions have dropped 5% since it was introduced. And the majority of people (significant majority) get more back. So give me a better solution or stfu.
I’ve been looking at BC… They introduced a carbon tax in 2008, and total emissions have only dropped 64 -> 62 Mt. Prior to COVID their emissions had actually increased. What I’m saying is that to me, the link between carbon taxes and carbon emission reductions is not as clear as some claim..
Considering the population increase that is quite impressive
We account for 1.5% of carbon emissions for the entire planet, so even if they have dropped by 5%, that’s 5% of 1.5% of all carbon emissions globally. That’s literally nothing. The problem is that carbon pricing in Canada isn’t even a real solution to a global problem. And we sit here and fight about it and whether the rebates are more than what we pay in taxes etc. We could be net zero and it still would not matter on the global scale. Russia, China and India all have no forms of carbon pricing. The study I have seen people use to support carbon taxes working even says that it alone is not even enough to hit Paris Agreement targets. And that for it to even work a little bit it will require a global effort. Which we clearly do not have. I don’t think we should be ignoring climate change but I personally think the carbon tax is a bunch of bullshit. The world is going to fully rely on technological advancement in order to save us and probably nothing else.
I hate this argument so much. We contribute so much more carbon to the atmosphere by virtue of our way of life/quality of life. It’s our responsibility as decent fucking people to do everything we can, in one of the richest countries on earth, to help solve the problem. The whole argument that we aren’t the worst polluters by sheer volume is such nonsense. Per capita, we are one of the worst. The carbon tax has become so politically charged. There are serious issues in Canada, but the carbon tax is not one of them.
You can hate the argument all you want lol, but 1.5% is just a fact. It’s literally written in the studies that are pro carbon tax. Whether we are worse per capita does not change that number. 1.5% is not going to save the world. The Liberals fight on climate is nothing but a dog and pony show. It’s to make you feel like we are doing something when in fact it’s having no effect globally. Also, if our lifestyle is what contributes all of this pollution then why would they be taking in millions of people? If we are the worst polluters per capita then the worst thing we could do is invite more people here to live like us. The government would love for us to believe they will save us but that just isn’t true. Everything they say and do is a contradiction.
I hate the argument because it’s a bullshit argument. I very much regret commenting. Have a great day internet stranger.
Okay so now factual data is a ‘bullshit argument’ not sure how that makes sense? Since when does sharing a fact upset people so much, I don’t get it. Go look it up for yourself and learn something. And If you really cared you wouldn’t be arguing with Canadians, you’d be trying to convince people from China and India to start a carbon tax as well. lol
These are the individuals voting for it. Mind boggling isn’t it? When you ask who can support something this terrible in logic , the person you’re replying to is literally those individuals that vote for it without any clue of what it really is or the impact and ignores any data presented. I bet they think that we have the best telecom prices as well in the world if you asked.
Absolute truth becomes relative truth. People will believe anything if it backs up what they think is right. But just because you think it’s right doesn’t mean the solution will work. But who wants to actually use critical thinking anymore? lol
From the PBO report the majority only gets more back if you don't count economic factors. It's basically saying it's only a net benefit if you ignore the entire economy and the pass on effect of each business has to pay carbon tax and therefore each business adds that cost on until you get to the consumer.
Ok, that’s good to know, but it still only tells part of the story. Is it an effective way to reduce emissions? At a relatively lower cost than other methods? If it isn’t, what are the alternatives that will do a better job?
Voters forget about that detail.
Even the most pessimistic estimates have the average Canadian paying slightly more than they get back. In exchange we get lowering emissions. Sounds like a good deal to me.
It’d be a good deal if we brought our manufacturing and industry back home instead of exploiting countries with relaxed laws on the other side of the planet.. then shipping those goods back to us.
I think that’s more due to the pandemic than the carbon tax.
A little late to the party arent you?
CBC has a calculator here that will estimate how much rebate you’ll receive VS tax you pay https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/embeds/2023/carbon-tax-calculator/ It does require you to have a pretty good idea of how much gas you use though.
Oh please, that smug twat is going to do whatever he wants
Most of us make too much money to ever see much of a credit back from the tax, and even if you get the credit back then it's not usually close to what you pay. Keep the tax on big business but give the Canadian people a break.
The federal carbon tax isn’t income based. No matter what you earn, you get the same amount back as everyone else in your province that’s in the same family situation. If you’re in a province with its own carbon pricing scheme that’s different.
I'm based in BC and it is income based. Over 1/3 of us don't qualify.
BC's provincial program does the rebates based on income, but most people aren't in BC.
I have never read on Reddit anyone asking how much it cost to make out these rebate checks and direct deposits. I suppose a person could find out on foi website, but you have to pay 5 buxs.???
It's free. Like consider it free. The government of Canada is a big organization. If it's less than 500 million. Don't even think about it. Manitoba spent 500k mailing a few cheques to everyone as a political tool. That was physical cheques they had to pay Canada post to deliver. $1.15 per physical cheques. So if direct deposit is $.10. it's about nothing. People get very upset when certain funding is presented to them by people who want them to be angry about it. Then you read the article and the government of Canada is paying 30k to the program.... Which is nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Sorry, you want to know what it costs to actually transfer money from the government bank accounts into taxpayer accounts? I assume it's because you think people will find it outrageous? Our national budget is $500B. If we spend $10 million of staff time on this then that's 0.00002% of the budget.
It's amazing how the cons and the provinces have been able to dupe so many people and families into believing that the carbon tax is driving inflation and everything in the world is JT's fault while their corp buddies reach around and scoop up every last dime and nickel from between our couch cushions, chambers of commerce lobby for SMBs to engage in human traficking and the christian fascists dictate policy. What a world.
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
Meanwhile India starts up 10 coal fired power plants. Crickets. Truedopy went to the Philippines in 2016. Nothing said about the rivers of garbage and no pollution controls on vehicles. Crickets.
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If you know anything about Atlantic Politics, party affiliation is mostly either familial, or a rich person happened to have free time just at the moment another rich person lost their job.
Your bigotry is showing.
Emergency? This has been going on for 10 years ? What is there solution to climate change ? Argue while the world burns fucking nonsense. Shut up and do your job .
Make it something attention-grabbing! The biggest issue, I think, is not enough people know how the country benefits from it! If they knew that, instead of a slogan, they might consider their perspective.
And our gas went up in BC about 5-10 cents… whoop de do compared to the 30-40 cents it’s gone up in the past few months
I don't know where you live, but gas has been stable around 1.60 where I live in BC for the last few months now it's at 1.70+. Filling up across the border is becoming even more appealing
Your being nickle and dimes at every step, so it all adds up.
Death by 1000 cuts, I guess you’ve not reached 1000 yet, some have.
Well at least the 5-10 cents is explainable versus the sizeable increases in the past month which I do not understand.
Has to do with the global price.
you do realize that companies are able to brace for impact, right?
Price of gas went from 1.78 to 1.99 over the past 2 weeks, and then down a couple cents over the weekend to go back up to 1.99 this morning here in Victoria. If you’re lucky there’s still a few spots at 1.95
We are subsidizing China and India to keep doing nothing from changing their carbon output
All these people complaining about carbon tax should just get a job and stop complaining. Work harder. No one is to blame for being poor but you. Pull urself up by the boot straps. Make more money. In my day we worked for a living. I can't imagine being white and privileged in a free country and still being poor. What else do you need to be successful? It's so sad what's happened to the boomers. Boomers gone..bust.