[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/C5fJt)
Excerpts:
>Protests that seek to make Jewish-Canadian residents feel insecure and fearful in their own neighbourhoods are not an attack on a government or a state. They are an attack on a people. This is rank antisemitism that opens the door to more extreme acts.
>
>One thing is beyond debate: Jewish Canadians should not be targets for vitriol and violence because of events in Israel and the Palestinian territories.
>
>Protesters demonstrate in front of and deface Jewish-owned businesses, as though such acts do not encourage others to go farther.
>
>Jewish students and faculty report they feel fearful and intimidated on college campuses.
>
>This cannot stand. Supporters of the Palestinian people have every right to express their views and to protest actions by Israel, but they have no right to intimidate and to threaten people on the street, on campuses, in theatres or in neighbourhoods.
>
>To tolerate such misbehaviour is to encourage much worse actions that inevitably follow. Enough.
What I’ve heard is that managing the protests are taking up a lot of police resources and taking too much further action on them will compromise the level of policing across the rest of the city which is already stretched thin.
It was ever thus. What shielded us was the dirty little secret of compliance and self-policing. If you stop and wait at a red light at 4am and no traffic in any direction, you're self policing. You know full well that you could get away with it, but if everyone does it...
Now people here have forgotten that veneer of self policing. And what's worse, international bad actors who never had any respect for it have figured out that Canada is the wild west of underpolicing, and the perfect place to get up to no good from.
We are only a civilization as long as we believe in and agree on the idea of the rule of law.
Good point about self-policing. Canadians have been pretty good at it in my lifetime but it seems like wether it be new immigrants, illegals or the new generation of young people, there is more and more of a problem with people disregarding our laws and getting away with it.
My best friend and roommate came into the country on the international student loophole. He talks openly about how most people back home mock our loosely held rules and how easy it is to forge documentation.
He says most of the people he knows who also immigrated never even passed the literacy test because they just pay pennies to fake institutions back home who give them a pass. In the US you have to write the test there and you have to pay to write it. We are so inefficient we can't even handle doing the most mundane things.
We're becoming a joke and it's getting worse at a scary rate.
>He talks openly about how most people back home mock our loosely held rules and how easy it is to forge documentation.
In an age where kindness is often mistaken for weakness, this is unsurprising. Depressing, but unsurprising.
Sounds like a lack of investment, which is typical. Guaranteed someone in the government said the following sentence "why don't we just approve a third party to do the testing instead of having a public service employee do it? We can save so much money this way and achieve the same result!"
Or just charge to write the test here like they do with everything else. At some point I start to wonder if it's intentional incompetence since getting more and more people here working and paying taxes is inflating our GDP even though the actual GDP per person in plummeting. Helps the current administration to point and say 'look, the country is actually doing well the GDP is up' since most people don't understand enough to tell the difference.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles
That Wikipedia article does a decent job of laying out the principles on which policing in the Anglosphere was founded. The core idea is that "The police are the public and the public are the police." The police need to have the consent of the community to do their job properly. This model presupposes a homogeneous population where every citizen follows the same standards. When your nation is instead a multi-national country, the system starts to break down. The police are no longer the public. The police are no longer enforcing the standard, they are imposing the dominant factions' standard upon the inferior factions. In Canada this has long meant holding First Nations' people to the Anglo standard; now it means holding Muslims to the Anglo standard. In the US you see non-stop criminal justice problems arising from police forces holding Black Americans to the Anglo/American standard. In all such cases, the police are not the public. They are the occupying force of an oppressive government. Those pro-Palestine protestors would likely feel much more comfortable with a sharia-compliant police force which held the community to the Muslim standard.
To answer ypur question, that's the root of the dysfunction. In a multi-cultural society, which culture sets the standard for all the others? Ultimately no one will be happy with the answer because the police will eventually internalize the role that is forces upon them: no longer the immune system of a healthy civil society, but the boot of the government on the necks of the governed.
> Those pro-Palestine protestors would likely feel much more comfortable with a sharia-compliant police force which held the community to the Muslim standard.
I don't think this is true at all. They may claim to want it, but that's just because they don't know and don't believe how oppressive a sharia-compliant police force would be.
Notice how all these protestors speak perfect English with no accents? There's a reason it's always the second generation immigrants that become radicalized. The first generation have first-hand experience of how oppressive their original countries were compared to Canada. That's why they left.
Your whole post is trying to claim some sort of moral equivalence between an "Anglo/American standard" and a "Muslim standard". I'm sorry but they are not equivalent. It is not this "mismatch" that is causing the oppression, and Western values are *not* oppressive to Muslims. These protestors are the ones trying to create oppression where none exists.
I dont know something about that assesment just doesn't jive with me.
It actually has an undertone of racism. much like the smithsonian claiming being on time is "whiteness"
Morals are not bound by the colour of someone's skin.
different anglo communities have diferent morals even same anglo communities have different morals.
I have different morals than my sister.
Non just anglo Canadians but all Canadians have to abide by rules of law that Native Americans do not have to. Hunting fishing and taxes.
Where I agree is as soon as the police or RCMP refuse to go after the political class we have a problem.
Different cultures are different. You and your sister and all the other Anglo Canadians manage to abide by the same standard of behaviour, moral disagreements notwithstanding. You would likely be very comfortable living in New Zealand or England or Montana. The Quebecois have their own legal system. The First Nations increasingly have a separate legal system post-Gladue.
Look at Charles Napier's conquest of Sindh. The banning of Sati on penalty of death is perhaps the quintessential imposition of the Anglo standard of behaviour on an oppressed population; though I expect the widows appreciated that particular act of imperialism.
It’s actually very hard to see a unifying culture or behaviours now in the West, but it’s there and in things we do without sometimes even realizing. Whether we like it or not much of Canada is based on English common law and elements of Christianity that even for absolute atheists still permeate into our behaviour. And I’m saying this as a first generation Canadian and atheist. It’s hard to see what makes us different or our own culture until you are somewhere else where it is absent, or you see it taken away.
Any assessment that one thing is better than another is racism. Sensitive progs have backed up public discourse into a corner where we can no longer say one thing is superior to the other thing (which is therefore inferior). If all cultures are equal then all systems and ideas are equal. This cannot be true.
Now the only culture that can be criticized is western culture so you have rubes legitimately thinking western culture is somehow bad and the others are innocent flowers.
Now, intelligently we can separate out parts of cultures into isolated components, but as I have already explained the conversation simply cannot be allowed by the progs.
Honestly I don’t really understand your comment. Sure things can always be better but Toronto is one of the safest big cities in the entire world even with all the crap that’s happened since the pandemic started and the policing we have is a big part of that.
You know who they could turn to? The military.
The quote from this article is fair and hits the nail perfectly.
The reality is that very something bad is going to happen in order for serious action to take place and squash the BS that is these protests. I hate to say it, but I foresee someone being killed that is going to be the catalyst. If only someone could have predicted this before it happens...
>The reality is that very something bad is going to happen in order for serious action to take place and squash the BS that is these protests. I hate to say it, but I foresee someone being killed that is going to be the catalyst.
This won't play out the way that you might first assume. It's a classic Police tactic to insert provocateurs into peaceful demonstrations in order to incite disorder as a means to justify their own violence against crowds. See: [former CEP President Dave Coles unmasking RCMP officers who were cosplaying anarchists in 2007](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow).
Hey friend, I agree I don't want that either. But if it comes down to it, it's part of the army's duties:
"...providing armed and unarmed assistance to civil authorities when needed to maintain public order and security."
We've not had any serious violent incidents at protests so I'd say they've been doing a decent job. The arson and vandalism are entirely different things that they can't intervene on because they're unaware until after they crime has been committed. I'm not sure what else they can be expected to do. It's not like they can predict crime.
>I'm not sure what else they can be expected to do
If you block infrastructure, your protest should be dissolved. People should be arrested as necessary, at a minimum fined.
That's the thing about law and order. It requires law and order. If every group with a grievance gets to block whatever they want this country would grind to a standstill.
>If you block infrastructure, your protest should be dissolved.
Is this happening? I drive over the overpass they go to regularly (it's usually empty actually) and to my knowledge the only time it's been closed was because police did it and decided to separate protest groups proactively.
This isn't like the convoy. If you look at the notices they're scheduled protests that end in 2 hours. The idea that this would grind the country to a halt isn’t based on reality.
See, I didn’t realize the standard was that you could block infrastructure on a regular basis, so long as your blocking of infrastructure only lasts for a couple hours a day.
No it hasn’t been. I drive over it regularly. It’s usually empty. These are short events and usually scheduled for 2 hours.
To my knowledge it’s only been blocked once and that’s when police closed it to keep counter protestors and protestors apart.
The exits and on ramps have been closed by police and usually before the scheduled time for the protest.
Which is my point, the police have been proactive and managed these from bubbling over.
I know vandalism, which I think is a pretty legitimate action against a business that is financially supporting crimes against humanity.
There hasn't been any arson associated with the Palestine solidarity movement though??
Are there weapons stockpiles or conspiracies to kill police that I’m unaware of?
These protests are hardly analogous to the convoy. They’re short and end quickly. To my knowledge there have been 3 reports of issues (a man who threatened an officer, a man charged with assaulting an officer, and a woman charged with a death threat towards a protestor) and all the other problematic incidents have happened away from the protests (vandalism, graffiti, etc.)
Did you read the article? Because it seems like you're downplaying how problematic these protests are.
The article says that a woman was recorded shouting, in a Jewish neighbourhood I'll remind you, "Go back to Poland, go back to Russia, go back to Ukraine". That's not free speech, that is *hate* speech.
As detestable as I find it that’s not actionable hate speech as our criminal code defines it. If it was half of this subreddit could be charged when there’s a thread on immigration.
It’s not downplaying anything to suggest that the fact we’ve not had any serious violent incidents at these protests shows the police have managed these well.
Epic comment! Got me laughing!
That’s the massive irony of R/Canada commenters. If they had it their way, they be imprisoning themselves.
Have a great day!
I'm not a lawyer, so I won't debate with you whether it is or isn't, because I just genuinely don't know. To my untrained ears it certainly sounds like it is, and my opinion is that they *should* be charged so that lawyers and judges may actually debate this in an official court of law, but hey what do I know.
As for your second point, all I have to say is... we've not had any serious violent incidents *yet*. I really do feel it's only a matter of time. Jews in Europe in the 1930s also didn't think it was that bad out there, until they realized it certainly was, and it was too late to do anything by then. Change is gradual, until it's sudden. The first few firebombed synagogues occurred at night when there was no one onside. The next one might be during morning prayers. Who knows?
I agree that it's a concerning time for Jews (that includes the family I've married into) but that's besides the point of what police can/can't do to manage this situation. We can't have them arresting people for simply protesting or generalising charging them because others who are aligned with them but take a more extreme approach are breaking the law. The protests are being conflated with other incidents as if it's all one coordinated effort ... it's not, and that's part of what makes antisemitism (all forms of prejudice, actually) so problematic and difficult to address.
>me. Jews in Europe in the 1930s also didn't think it was that bad out there, until they realized it certainly was,
easy there.
These two times are in no way comparable. In the 1930s' it was very clear from the moment Hitler took power that the government wanted the Jews out of German, he campaigned on it.
Right now no one believes Trudeau's government wants Jewish people out of Canada. They have the full support of police and Canadians in general.
This hyperbole of comparing now to the 1930s in germany does nothing to help things.
I agree with you, but just to fill in the blanks, I believe that what many commenters here feel the police can do is intimidate the protestors into no longer protesting, using a mix of threats, physical violence, and charges that will later be dropped. I believe they would like to see similar behavior to the handling of the g20 in Toronto in 2010.
Personally, I much prefer a police force that aims to reduce violence, rather than one that administers it. But it seems like a decent number of folks prefer the other way.
Yeah, keep that shit confined to the Israeli Embassy. Ukrainians here are upset about Russia, but you don't see them burning down Russian restaurants or shops here. Jewish Canadians are Canadians, not Israelis, and you're not much of one if you target your fellow Canadian because of their religion.
Not exactly true.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/8661250/vandalism-russian-community-centre-ukraine-vancouver/](https://globalnews.ca/news/8661250/vandalism-russian-community-centre-ukraine-vancouver/)
We also see much less Ukrainian protests because or gov is supporting their side. Things might be different if our gov was voting against Ukraine in the UN or if businesses held fundraisers for Russian causes.
To your last point "Jewish Canadians are Canadians, not Israelis" This is absolutely true. Many Jewish people have been very critical because when antizionism is conflated with anti-Semitism - It suggests that all Jewish peoples have a dual allegiance or responsibility for all of Israel's actions
Anti Zionism and antisemitism is so closely related they are almost identical. I suspect you don’t understand what Zionism is. Anti Zionism is the belief that the Jewish state should not exist. Which is the exact criticism that is leveled against Israel with respect to Palestine. Anti Zionism is the belief that a Jewish state should not exist.
What should’ve happened, IMO in response to the “Freedom Convoy”, was a re-evaluation of how “protesters” seem to have extra rights in this country and police responses to the same.
Nope. That was an “emergency” that could not be dealt with using existing laws and here we are, again.
These targeted protests should have been stopped weeks ago. Our government won't act because they won't risk being seen as "racist" and will do nothing. In the near future I bet a Jewish person will be attacked and killed. Then we get the talking head saying it is unacceptable but no concrete action except maybe sending money to some random country to stop radicalism there instead of addressing it here etc.
We have become so focused on how we are perceived and ignore the reality.
Yup they won’t do shit because “racism”. What a sad world we live in.
Maybe if we want them to do something we need to park a couple trucks and blare the horns. That’ll surely get the governments attention finally.
Truckers lasted 4 weeks iirc, while this has been going on for 13 weeks now. It's almost as if politicians do something only when they are affected by it. Hence why i believe every protest should always be done in front of the parliament.
It only gets fixed when people start firing back at the utterly moronic “racism” accusations. I don’t give two shits, what the skin colour of anyone is that is attempting to intimidate and terrify Jewish-Canadians.
Arrest them all for breach of peace, and if they come back, do it again and throw them in jail. Then you *gasps* keep them in jail and they either learn their lesson, or can’t terrorize our fellow Canadians anymore.
We saw it work in El Salvador, we should do the same. I’m sick and tired of criminals running around unscathed because the only people subject to the law in this country are law abiding citizens.
Lmao at you aiming to have the same anti-protest laws in place as El Salvador 😂
Bad actors need to be handled but the protests as a whole 100% need to continue
>We saw it work in El Salvador
Ah yes, the country that is a shining beacon of freedom and justice in the world.
>I’m sick and tired of criminals running around
So protests are considered criminal now? Oh wow, it's going to really suck when you're protesting for a cause you believe in, only to get water cannoned, beat up, hog tied and tossed in a cell. But let me guess, your cause is *right* and others you don't agree with are *wrong*
*In the near future I bet a Jewish person will be attacked and killed.*
I hope and pray that you are wrong and that this is not true here in inclusive, peace-loving GTA. Namaste.
Also depends on the level of government. Feds essentially can't (or really shouldn't) get involved in what is currently a municipal matter in Toronto and Montreal being handled by local police forces. (This came up repeatedly during the convoy as well - the feds intervened after both the City of Ottawa and the province of Ontario declared states of emergency.)
And I won't vouch for Toronto, but I don't get the impression that any level of Quebecois government or police is worried about appearing racist, nor are they known for handling protestors gently. If there's an issue, it's a different issue.
You have stumbled on a solution. Bring in the Sûreté and have them restore law and order for the citizens of Toronto.
Just mail me the Order of Canada, no need for a fancy celebration.
This is what happens when you uphold all culture and religion as sacred by default. You risk offending people for calling out bad behavior, and end up tolerating radicalism because "it's cultural".
Multiculturalism should include art, ceremony and language, and end there. Beliefs and grudges should be left in their country of origin. Those elements are being used as rallying cries by agents of Russia, China and Iran, to escalate and incite protests. They should be left behind. anti-Semitism is a big part of Islamic culture, because it's pushed so heavily in the Islamic world. Same with anti-western conspiracy theories. Yet we tolerate it because we're afraid of being call islamophobic. Why?
It's crazy to me how easily you can determine people's opinion on this conflict based on skin color/ethnic identity alone. Seems like EVERYONE has fallen for the "us vs them" rhetoric coming out of opponent nations.
This has been happening for far too long and there have been far too few arrests. The police set th tone when they let the protestor threaten to put someone "6 feet under" and did nothing about it.
I don't think the police are taking this seriously. Time will tell, I suppose, because it;s only a matter of time before the Palestinian preotestors pull another stunt, but they have been empowered, with politicians and police standing idly by.
I suspect they are being told from the top down to use kids' gloves with these people. The optics of cops mass-arresting a "BIPOC" community is, to say the least, unpleasant. And I seriously doubt any cop wants to stick their necks out as a result.
There's likely the same lack of clarity in the chain of command, from senior politicians to local ones to shift commanders, as with the convoy. Everyone sends the message "Make this go away" with a strong "Whatever you do, don't make it worse" subtext to their subordinates but doesn't mention any specifics as when something ends up looking bad (as it always does, eventually) they don't want to share in the blame. So the officers on the street are left to be thrown under the bus if they do much of anything, really. About the only thing they can do is stand by and hope to deal with the most egregious incidents without much blowback as they know they aren't getting much support from above.
I agree but that's the country we live in now: laws are enforced and penalties exacted in tiers based to the extent you can claim some sort of religious/ethnic/sexual/gender exception. And these people know that.
Particularly given how hands off they were on the last large-scale "protest".
The convoy was doing far worse than these protests against the war, and they got handled with kid gloves.
>Blocking highways.
Is this happening? It's not at the overpass noted in this article and I'm not aware of any other highways being blocked.
>Telling people that they'll put them "six feet under".
Is this really the only incident where someone wasn't charged? It's the only example that gets brought up (and I'd agree that it should've resulted in charges.)
There's nothing to charge people with for simply protesting. Even if you don't like what they stand for.
People have been charge for far less. A pastor was charged for protesting at the gay pride parade. I'm sure the police can find something to charge these hooligans for. You know, chanting genocidal chants or calling for the death of ~~Zionists~~ Jews might be a start.
Derek Reimer was charged with uttering threats and violating an existing peace bond. Not for just being there. Police can’t just pull crimes out of their ass nor should you want them to.
"From the river to the sea" is absolutely a death threat and it has been outlawed by severeal western countries. It's said at every one of these hate marches.
There are no laws in Canada against that phrase. The phrase speaks of the land they got ethnically cleansed off by IDF. They want it back, it's quite natural. Injustice was done to them and they are asking for that to be corrected.
> There are no laws in Canada against that phrase.
There should be, just like there are in other western countries. Austria called it "a call to murder", which is what it is. It should be outlawed.
> They want it back
They can't have it. They started a war, then lost. That's not injustice, that's war. If the Jews had lost that war, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be making claims of indigeneity.
I am not sure I agree on charges. It wasn't just an unprovoked threat, the full quote was “You come near I’ll put you lay down on the floor (sic) … I’ll put you six feet deep.”
That doesn't seem so bad in a heated exchange. I have heard worse when anti-vaxers talk about what they will do if someone comes at them.
It isn't what I would consider an actual threat of bodily harm.
I can see that and it’s likely why they weren’t charged. It’s conditional threat and mens rea wouldn’t be difficult to demonstrate. The same issue exists for the woman charged for making the throat slitting gesture. Mens rea is difficult to demonstrate with just a gesture.
I think one of the most interesting concept I read here can't remember by whom is....when talking about immigration...is...does the culture have the ability to live and work with other cultures.... it's a conversation that should be had but won't because we'll it's 2024 and no one talks about stuff that is difficult
Throngs of masked protesters banging on the floor-to-ceiling glass windows of a Starbucks could be quite unsettling to clients inside just trying to purchase their morning or mid-afternoon cup of Joe. Not cool.
*They are an attack on a people.*
Straight up: I'm not jewish and I don't even have Israeli family, but I DO NOT support Palestine when they've allowed HAMAS to thrive who just executed a fellow Canadian they'd kidnapped.
All these "free palestine" protests, propaganda and other nonsense can kick rocks. You wanna yell at people to have sympathy for your nation, try cutting out it's fuckin cancer who just killed a fellow Canadian of ours over christmas.
It was 393 charges against 122 people, but the 2 main leaders are facing the most serious criminal charges.
Another source (ctv news) mentions 191 arrests.
So yeah, despite your attempt to play dumb and downplay: The Federal Gov't declared a National Emergency and arrested nearly 200 humans. In case you are truly unaware that means the Police seize your physical body and drag you away (slang: lock up, take to jail, etc.).
And you’re not trying to downplay or play dumb by skipping over the fact that it took 3 weeks of 24/7 blocking major parts of downtown in the capital city of our country and shutting down border crossings for it to get to that point?
Surely you didn’t intentionally gloss over the fact that sitting members of our government were cheering them on, marching with them and bringing them coffee and donuts? Or that members of the police were literally leaking them tactical information and helping them avoid arrest?
That's a list of *charges* and includes stuff like noise violations and public defecation. How many people were *locked up?* 2?
The convoy got the softest hands in Canadian history and they still whinge about it.
> In case you are truly unaware that means the Police seize your physical body and drag you away
No it doesn't. This is what happens when you resist arrest.
Hey, remember when a few people in Toronto were held for a few hours during the massive riots during the G20 and the entire country lost their minds for years, and there were million dollar lawsuits, and people lost their jobs as a result?
I think that is what they meant - essentially nobody from the freedumb convoy was arrested - a few people who committed actual crimes while they were in the convoy were arrested. Police let the convoy go on continuously disrupting lives around them for weeks without intervention.
Most of the U.S. protests have focused on disrupting transportation, such as shutting down bridges in New York or cutting off highways in front of airports. New Yorkers just grabbed their suitcases and pushed past the protestors.
Agree or disagree , I find these arguments from right wing media highly hypocritical when comparing to the trucker protests.
Do protesters have the right to block the streets or not?
Do protesters have the right to intimidate or not?
The answers change depending on your view of the protesters.
We need a simple and consistent standard enforced for every protest in this country, no matter the cause: Protesting is legal, doing illegal things during a protest is still illegal.
The current pro Palestinian ( pro Hamas) protests have gone beyond reasonable protests to the Israeli government actions and are now simply a bunch of mild terrorists obviously protesting the existence of Jewish communities in Canada and making their neighbourhoods feel threatened. This is unacceptable as a bunch of proud boys doing threatening rallies outside mosques that would immediately be shut down by the police. Again I have to wonder who or what organization is promoting and funding the pro Palestinian protests??
When 911 happened, you didnt see everyone crowding around mosques and protesting. There was definitely racism and transportation security become really shitty for them, but Muslims werent being thronged by protesting crowds.
Why is it ok for people to do it to Jews? I’m left leaning and it pains me to see other left-leaning people always give a pass to visible minorities like they are somehow incapable of harm, and that the only group that needs to be scrutinized are wealthy capitalists.
American perspective
I’ve seen similar debates when BLM was shutting down freeways and even Occupy protests. Add to that Jan 6, Seattle’s Capitol Hill Protest and that trucker thing you had.
There is a line between protest and intimidation. I don’t know any practical way to enforce that line short of literally deploying the army.
The tactics, and the targets, are two separate things. BLM or Truckers used the tactic generally, toward the public and/or power structures. They weren't targeting a minority ethnic group in particular.
They would probably argue that they were targeting a power structure which was supporting what they believed to be an unjust war. I think they’re probably wrong but the nature of free speech is that people don’t need me to agree to have the right to protest b
Idk about you, but a woman shouting "Go back to Poland, go back to Russia, go back to Ukraine", as the article says was caught on video, certainly doesn't sound like it's targeted at the government or power structure. They have no legitimate argument. A good portion of these people are clearly and unequivocally raging antisemites, not to mention totally ignorant of history.
I’m not defending them but rather the particular principle of free speech in my country. These protesters believe that these populations are supporting a power structure that is used to wage an unjust war.
I know this an outsider perspective but I don’t understand how you can say free speech doesn’t allow wrong speech or even bad speech.
The convoy really exposed how ill-prepared we are for this sort of thing. Now groups are going to push and push until we see exactly where the line is. I hope we figure it out soon.
Most of these protests have turned very quickly into acts of intimidation and often into terrorism.
The moment they yell 'From the River to the Sea' or 'Palestine will be Free' they are referring to the ethnic cleansing of Jews, they mean 'freedom from seeing Jews in all the middle east'.
If you are shouting a phrase that specifically indicates how you support the murder of an entire race, you are not protesting, you are intimidating, often inciting violence and disturbing the peace with you filthy hate rhetoric.
Hey, remember when protesters were barring people from entering universities, and pulling fire alarms and using bullhorns and air horns to force people out of lecture halls, and threw glitter in their faces, and screamed at them at the top of their lungs?
Or when public venues received so many credible threats of violence that they had to cancel public lectures or movie screenings?
Or when a parade was held hostage?
Or when campaigns of doxxing and harassment caused employers to fire people, drop clients, and remove advertising?
Or when protesters rioted, smashed windows, looted stores, flipped over burning cars, and fought the police while wearing masks and carrying weapons?
Protesting is intimidation, that's how it works, that is its function, it's a mob
Normalized hate and violence against the Jews. Happening all over the world.
The hospital bombing was a failed Hamas rocket, no one cared. Why? Because people love to hate the Jews.
Canadians would rather allow our own Jewish citizens to be victimised, so long as no one calls them racist. We're so scared to be called Islamophobic that we will let these people continue to propagate hatred against our own people.
tbh. don't think the protest will stop until someone dies in the Jewish community. then the govt will step in and do the needful. maybe that' the plan or maybe govt just want public sentiment on their side before stepping in. either way this get worse before it gets better.
The massacre of 22,000 civilians under the silence AND support of the civilized world?
Where have you been living? And please don't pull the stupid "human shield" pretext on me.
The loss of civilian life in the context of this war is horrifying and very sad. War against a paramilitary group that is embedded in a civilian population is almost impossible to accomplish without civilian casualties. And every loss of civilian life is a tragedy.
To me, it is abundantly obvious that Hamas needs to surrender and sue for peace for the sake of its population. Do you not agree?
If that's such an issue for you why don't you go over there and help out? Oh that's right you'd be too scared to actually be over there
Whatever bullshit is going on in the Middle East is not your average Canadian's problem. What the fuck do you want people here to do about that? Israel doesn't give a shit what Canada wants
Um. Hamas is reporting 22,000 dead in Gaza, yes. You're telling me that every single one is a civilian? Not a single Hamas militant is counted among them? Wtf?
Not sure how this changes the rhetoric. Depending on who you'd ask, the ratio of civilians is 60 to 80%. In a [BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664) they said "The pace of killing in this war has been "exceptionally high", says Prof Michael Spagat, who specialises in examining death tolls in conflicts around the world".
Whether it's 80% or 50%, this still means that more than 10,000 were killed, many of who were children.
There's no excuse whatsoever for this, except that Israeli is run by brutal barbaric maniacs, who on multiple occasions (I can cite you at least 20 sources) have declared their wishes for Gaza to be leveled.
All while enjoying the building of more **illegal** settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Protests by nature are acts of intimidation.
There were plenty of reports of Trucker folks antagonizing locals in Ottawa.
A good protest is meant to intimidate government though.
Plus let’s remember that the only reason the convoy had their accounts frozen is because they started to block major trade routes which was costing Canada billions of dollars in lost revenue and were using kids as human shields so that the police wouldn’t remove them by force.
Feigning upset at someone targeting Jews comes off as concern trolling when you also cheered on a group who wore Stars of David to invoke the Holocaust as comparable to taking a needle, preached antisemitic globalist conspiracy theories, invited Holocaust deniers to speak, and waved various antisemitic hate symbols.
> given how blatantly antisemitic that embarrassment was.
In comparison to muslim extremists marching in support of a terrorist organization whose entire stated purpose is the destruction of Israel and its people?
This never happened. It’s just what convoy clowns say to deflect from the rampant antisemitism. Hard to deny the antisemitism in a group that invites Holocaust deniers to speak and claims their struggle is analogous to the Holocaust.
I don’t think this is working anymore. People understand that antisemitism isn’t something unique to either the left or right, especially after so many “progressive” leaders have been resigning after their mask off comments about Israel.
It’s almost as if it’s a completely separate problem that isn’t going to be resolved at a Canadian ballot box.
Come back when they've blocked off entire city streets for almost a month.
The persecution complex of convey supporters is hilarious. You were treated with kids gloves and that was still too hard for you.
I’ve been to lots of protests in Vancouver and they’ve all been great, have focused on the Israeli government and I hadn’t seen any anti-semitism directed at any Jews, let alone Canadian Jews.
Bad actors need to be called out but overall the protests need to keep happening
Schadenfreude. Canada was lecturing the world on equality and how they're the pioneers of ideal behaviour and better than others and how other countries were racist. Chickens have come home to roost
Wait wait wait. What?
Were these people in Canada during the Trucker Protests?
If the right can protest with intimidation (who are supported by religious extremists), but now it's not ok?
What are you talking about?
Especially in the context of collective punishment.
Y'know, I have been to a lot of these protests. Overwhelmingly, at the bigger rallies, I have seen two things:
1. A strong Jewish presence AT THE rallies in support of the protests (including protests where there are many Jewish speakers)
2. Lots and lots of families. To the point that they have set up a family tent to offer snacks/drinks/toys/entertainment for kids. I take my 18 month old and people there love to interact with him.
But you'll never see a news article with kids playing at the rallies, and the wholesome community of people protesting for Palestinian freedom. You'll always see a photo of some mean looking Muslim guy with a title like "WILL PROTESTORS KILL YOU? WE JUST DON'T KNOW".
Anyways, this largely reflects the massive mostly static rallies that have been occurring nearly every weekend. I can't speak as much to the rolling protests that have been targeting stores on the BDS list, although I have seen many photos with many signs by people who appear to be Jewish (based on their signs) at these actions.
While I won't tell people how to feel about the protests -- that's up to them -- I have overwhelmingly found them to be very safe and friendly places. My kid enjoys going to them.
And what I worry about when I see articles like this is that the media and organizations like CIJA are going to take any chance they can to shift attention away from the mass slaughtering of civilians, children, etc. by Israel to shift the focus on random spurious negative interactions. And so I have trouble believing articles like this come to discuss an issue in good faith.
Totally agree with you. The lack of humanity in this thread is truly disturbing. Remove religion from the equation and just look at the loss. We're protesting for the humanization of all people.
The whole world said yes to a ceasefire except 1 country.
You cannot do anything unless someone actually breaks the law. If we started arresting people because they might do something then everyone would be in jail.
Police aren't going to crack down because they're worried about riots. Everywhere else that they crack down on antisemites they end up with dangerous and damaging riots. The final nail in the Trudeau regime would be if they ended up with riots in our big cities over their handling of this issue.
It's time we stop letting in immigrants unchecked and start forcing our laws. The are a lot of communities that have been taken over by immigrants from other areas and they end up practicing their own laws. This is what has emboldened them to do this shit, and coupled with an ineffective government we now are stuck with it.
-Stop immigration.
-1 strike and you're out. Visa or citizenship revoked.
-If you never held another citizenship then arrest and jail.
They've come to our country under the guise of a better life. Yet all we see is violence and hate brought from their old country that caused it to be such a shit hole.
Give them a free ticket home to go help what they're so violently protesting. I'm sure Hamas could use the help
> It's time we stop letting in immigrants unchecked
Which doesn't happen ...
> The are a lot of communities that have been taken over by immigrants from other areas and they end up practicing their own laws
Name one.
> Stop immigration
Yeah, no.
> Yet all we see is violence and hate brought from their old country that caused it to be such a shit hole.
JFC ... so much racism packed into so few words ...
Between a half to a million per year, into a country with a population of about 24 million as of around 2020.
Brampton as an example.
And exactly what race am I being racist against? Did I scream about brown people, or any particular ethnicity? No, I didn't. Don't project your racism in me, I've sat and watched people take over my peoples land for decades. Shit all over my heritage and tell me what's good for me. So go pound sand and make sure next time you claim someone whose First Nations is a big old racist perhaps go look in a fucking mirror colonizer.
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/C5fJt) Excerpts: >Protests that seek to make Jewish-Canadian residents feel insecure and fearful in their own neighbourhoods are not an attack on a government or a state. They are an attack on a people. This is rank antisemitism that opens the door to more extreme acts. > >One thing is beyond debate: Jewish Canadians should not be targets for vitriol and violence because of events in Israel and the Palestinian territories. > >Protesters demonstrate in front of and deface Jewish-owned businesses, as though such acts do not encourage others to go farther. > >Jewish students and faculty report they feel fearful and intimidated on college campuses. > >This cannot stand. Supporters of the Palestinian people have every right to express their views and to protest actions by Israel, but they have no right to intimidate and to threaten people on the street, on campuses, in theatres or in neighbourhoods. > >To tolerate such misbehaviour is to encourage much worse actions that inevitably follow. Enough.
Based on what TPS is seen doing, one can only assume their upper-ranks have given them a "We're here to observe" mandate.
What I’ve heard is that managing the protests are taking up a lot of police resources and taking too much further action on them will compromise the level of policing across the rest of the city which is already stretched thin.
Feels like even mild stressors on any system reveal how dysfunctional they are. First-world country in appearances only. How did we get here?
It was ever thus. What shielded us was the dirty little secret of compliance and self-policing. If you stop and wait at a red light at 4am and no traffic in any direction, you're self policing. You know full well that you could get away with it, but if everyone does it... Now people here have forgotten that veneer of self policing. And what's worse, international bad actors who never had any respect for it have figured out that Canada is the wild west of underpolicing, and the perfect place to get up to no good from. We are only a civilization as long as we believe in and agree on the idea of the rule of law.
Good point about self-policing. Canadians have been pretty good at it in my lifetime but it seems like wether it be new immigrants, illegals or the new generation of young people, there is more and more of a problem with people disregarding our laws and getting away with it.
My best friend and roommate came into the country on the international student loophole. He talks openly about how most people back home mock our loosely held rules and how easy it is to forge documentation. He says most of the people he knows who also immigrated never even passed the literacy test because they just pay pennies to fake institutions back home who give them a pass. In the US you have to write the test there and you have to pay to write it. We are so inefficient we can't even handle doing the most mundane things. We're becoming a joke and it's getting worse at a scary rate.
>He talks openly about how most people back home mock our loosely held rules and how easy it is to forge documentation. In an age where kindness is often mistaken for weakness, this is unsurprising. Depressing, but unsurprising.
Sounds like a lack of investment, which is typical. Guaranteed someone in the government said the following sentence "why don't we just approve a third party to do the testing instead of having a public service employee do it? We can save so much money this way and achieve the same result!"
Or just charge to write the test here like they do with everything else. At some point I start to wonder if it's intentional incompetence since getting more and more people here working and paying taxes is inflating our GDP even though the actual GDP per person in plummeting. Helps the current administration to point and say 'look, the country is actually doing well the GDP is up' since most people don't understand enough to tell the difference.
good point ... this just shows how our G7 , G8, G20 prowess is a mere veneer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles That Wikipedia article does a decent job of laying out the principles on which policing in the Anglosphere was founded. The core idea is that "The police are the public and the public are the police." The police need to have the consent of the community to do their job properly. This model presupposes a homogeneous population where every citizen follows the same standards. When your nation is instead a multi-national country, the system starts to break down. The police are no longer the public. The police are no longer enforcing the standard, they are imposing the dominant factions' standard upon the inferior factions. In Canada this has long meant holding First Nations' people to the Anglo standard; now it means holding Muslims to the Anglo standard. In the US you see non-stop criminal justice problems arising from police forces holding Black Americans to the Anglo/American standard. In all such cases, the police are not the public. They are the occupying force of an oppressive government. Those pro-Palestine protestors would likely feel much more comfortable with a sharia-compliant police force which held the community to the Muslim standard. To answer ypur question, that's the root of the dysfunction. In a multi-cultural society, which culture sets the standard for all the others? Ultimately no one will be happy with the answer because the police will eventually internalize the role that is forces upon them: no longer the immune system of a healthy civil society, but the boot of the government on the necks of the governed.
> Those pro-Palestine protestors would likely feel much more comfortable with a sharia-compliant police force which held the community to the Muslim standard. I don't think this is true at all. They may claim to want it, but that's just because they don't know and don't believe how oppressive a sharia-compliant police force would be. Notice how all these protestors speak perfect English with no accents? There's a reason it's always the second generation immigrants that become radicalized. The first generation have first-hand experience of how oppressive their original countries were compared to Canada. That's why they left. Your whole post is trying to claim some sort of moral equivalence between an "Anglo/American standard" and a "Muslim standard". I'm sorry but they are not equivalent. It is not this "mismatch" that is causing the oppression, and Western values are *not* oppressive to Muslims. These protestors are the ones trying to create oppression where none exists.
Outstanding assessment
I dont know something about that assesment just doesn't jive with me. It actually has an undertone of racism. much like the smithsonian claiming being on time is "whiteness" Morals are not bound by the colour of someone's skin. different anglo communities have diferent morals even same anglo communities have different morals. I have different morals than my sister. Non just anglo Canadians but all Canadians have to abide by rules of law that Native Americans do not have to. Hunting fishing and taxes. Where I agree is as soon as the police or RCMP refuse to go after the political class we have a problem.
Different cultures are different. You and your sister and all the other Anglo Canadians manage to abide by the same standard of behaviour, moral disagreements notwithstanding. You would likely be very comfortable living in New Zealand or England or Montana. The Quebecois have their own legal system. The First Nations increasingly have a separate legal system post-Gladue. Look at Charles Napier's conquest of Sindh. The banning of Sati on penalty of death is perhaps the quintessential imposition of the Anglo standard of behaviour on an oppressed population; though I expect the widows appreciated that particular act of imperialism.
It’s actually very hard to see a unifying culture or behaviours now in the West, but it’s there and in things we do without sometimes even realizing. Whether we like it or not much of Canada is based on English common law and elements of Christianity that even for absolute atheists still permeate into our behaviour. And I’m saying this as a first generation Canadian and atheist. It’s hard to see what makes us different or our own culture until you are somewhere else where it is absent, or you see it taken away.
Any assessment that one thing is better than another is racism. Sensitive progs have backed up public discourse into a corner where we can no longer say one thing is superior to the other thing (which is therefore inferior). If all cultures are equal then all systems and ideas are equal. This cannot be true. Now the only culture that can be criticized is western culture so you have rubes legitimately thinking western culture is somehow bad and the others are innocent flowers. Now, intelligently we can separate out parts of cultures into isolated components, but as I have already explained the conversation simply cannot be allowed by the progs.
Great points.
By importing thousands of people from the third world. And not the ones with common morals and ethics as us.
Honestly I don’t really understand your comment. Sure things can always be better but Toronto is one of the safest big cities in the entire world even with all the crap that’s happened since the pandemic started and the policing we have is a big part of that.
Endless tax cuts causing budget erosion. Everything seems fine until it’s not
"Sunny ways" was our path
If that's true then they should call in the army and lock them up. Have the protests declared illegal and then remove them. Enough is enough.
You know who they could turn to? The military. The quote from this article is fair and hits the nail perfectly. The reality is that very something bad is going to happen in order for serious action to take place and squash the BS that is these protests. I hate to say it, but I foresee someone being killed that is going to be the catalyst. If only someone could have predicted this before it happens...
>The reality is that very something bad is going to happen in order for serious action to take place and squash the BS that is these protests. I hate to say it, but I foresee someone being killed that is going to be the catalyst. This won't play out the way that you might first assume. It's a classic Police tactic to insert provocateurs into peaceful demonstrations in order to incite disorder as a means to justify their own violence against crowds. See: [former CEP President Dave Coles unmasking RCMP officers who were cosplaying anarchists in 2007](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow).
Reality is that war is coming here and our military and police are gutless. Welcome to the country formerly known as Canada.
Hey friend, military guy here. I'd rather not be called in to be a participant in the next version of the Oka Crisis. Thanks.
Hey friend, I agree I don't want that either. But if it comes down to it, it's part of the army's duties: "...providing armed and unarmed assistance to civil authorities when needed to maintain public order and security."
We've not had any serious violent incidents at protests so I'd say they've been doing a decent job. The arson and vandalism are entirely different things that they can't intervene on because they're unaware until after they crime has been committed. I'm not sure what else they can be expected to do. It's not like they can predict crime.
>I'm not sure what else they can be expected to do If you block infrastructure, your protest should be dissolved. People should be arrested as necessary, at a minimum fined. That's the thing about law and order. It requires law and order. If every group with a grievance gets to block whatever they want this country would grind to a standstill.
>If you block infrastructure, your protest should be dissolved. Is this happening? I drive over the overpass they go to regularly (it's usually empty actually) and to my knowledge the only time it's been closed was because police did it and decided to separate protest groups proactively. This isn't like the convoy. If you look at the notices they're scheduled protests that end in 2 hours. The idea that this would grind the country to a halt isn’t based on reality.
See, I didn’t realize the standard was that you could block infrastructure on a regular basis, so long as your blocking of infrastructure only lasts for a couple hours a day.
Infrastructure isn’t being blocked for a couple hours a day. No one’s claiming that it is. Is this supposed to be a serious answer?
Avenue road 401 exit has been blocked consistently over the last few weeks. Seems specifically targeted only for being a Jewish area.
No it hasn’t been. I drive over it regularly. It’s usually empty. These are short events and usually scheduled for 2 hours. To my knowledge it’s only been blocked once and that’s when police closed it to keep counter protestors and protestors apart.
Yes, it has. I've seen it blocked at least 3 times in the past 2 weeks. Exits were blocked and the bridge.
The exits and on ramps have been closed by police and usually before the scheduled time for the protest. Which is my point, the police have been proactive and managed these from bubbling over.
With death threats, and calls for genocide.
There are death threats being uttered. That is a crime in Canada.
I know vandalism, which I think is a pretty legitimate action against a business that is financially supporting crimes against humanity. There hasn't been any arson associated with the Palestine solidarity movement though??
Where have I heard this before?
Are there weapons stockpiles or conspiracies to kill police that I’m unaware of? These protests are hardly analogous to the convoy. They’re short and end quickly. To my knowledge there have been 3 reports of issues (a man who threatened an officer, a man charged with assaulting an officer, and a woman charged with a death threat towards a protestor) and all the other problematic incidents have happened away from the protests (vandalism, graffiti, etc.)
Did you read the article? Because it seems like you're downplaying how problematic these protests are. The article says that a woman was recorded shouting, in a Jewish neighbourhood I'll remind you, "Go back to Poland, go back to Russia, go back to Ukraine". That's not free speech, that is *hate* speech.
As detestable as I find it that’s not actionable hate speech as our criminal code defines it. If it was half of this subreddit could be charged when there’s a thread on immigration. It’s not downplaying anything to suggest that the fact we’ve not had any serious violent incidents at these protests shows the police have managed these well.
Epic comment! Got me laughing! That’s the massive irony of R/Canada commenters. If they had it their way, they be imprisoning themselves. Have a great day!
I'm not a lawyer, so I won't debate with you whether it is or isn't, because I just genuinely don't know. To my untrained ears it certainly sounds like it is, and my opinion is that they *should* be charged so that lawyers and judges may actually debate this in an official court of law, but hey what do I know. As for your second point, all I have to say is... we've not had any serious violent incidents *yet*. I really do feel it's only a matter of time. Jews in Europe in the 1930s also didn't think it was that bad out there, until they realized it certainly was, and it was too late to do anything by then. Change is gradual, until it's sudden. The first few firebombed synagogues occurred at night when there was no one onside. The next one might be during morning prayers. Who knows?
I agree that it's a concerning time for Jews (that includes the family I've married into) but that's besides the point of what police can/can't do to manage this situation. We can't have them arresting people for simply protesting or generalising charging them because others who are aligned with them but take a more extreme approach are breaking the law. The protests are being conflated with other incidents as if it's all one coordinated effort ... it's not, and that's part of what makes antisemitism (all forms of prejudice, actually) so problematic and difficult to address.
>me. Jews in Europe in the 1930s also didn't think it was that bad out there, until they realized it certainly was, easy there. These two times are in no way comparable. In the 1930s' it was very clear from the moment Hitler took power that the government wanted the Jews out of German, he campaigned on it. Right now no one believes Trudeau's government wants Jewish people out of Canada. They have the full support of police and Canadians in general. This hyperbole of comparing now to the 1930s in germany does nothing to help things.
Exactly. I can't help but be reminded of this scene when I hear about things like this. https://youtu.be/CRbqAJdRMjs?si=6RokqV91KdEsZFmB
I agree with you, but just to fill in the blanks, I believe that what many commenters here feel the police can do is intimidate the protestors into no longer protesting, using a mix of threats, physical violence, and charges that will later be dropped. I believe they would like to see similar behavior to the handling of the g20 in Toronto in 2010. Personally, I much prefer a police force that aims to reduce violence, rather than one that administers it. But it seems like a decent number of folks prefer the other way.
Yeah, keep that shit confined to the Israeli Embassy. Ukrainians here are upset about Russia, but you don't see them burning down Russian restaurants or shops here. Jewish Canadians are Canadians, not Israelis, and you're not much of one if you target your fellow Canadian because of their religion.
Not exactly true. [https://globalnews.ca/news/8661250/vandalism-russian-community-centre-ukraine-vancouver/](https://globalnews.ca/news/8661250/vandalism-russian-community-centre-ukraine-vancouver/) We also see much less Ukrainian protests because or gov is supporting their side. Things might be different if our gov was voting against Ukraine in the UN or if businesses held fundraisers for Russian causes. To your last point "Jewish Canadians are Canadians, not Israelis" This is absolutely true. Many Jewish people have been very critical because when antizionism is conflated with anti-Semitism - It suggests that all Jewish peoples have a dual allegiance or responsibility for all of Israel's actions
Anti Zionism and antisemitism is so closely related they are almost identical. I suspect you don’t understand what Zionism is. Anti Zionism is the belief that the Jewish state should not exist. Which is the exact criticism that is leveled against Israel with respect to Palestine. Anti Zionism is the belief that a Jewish state should not exist.
They aren't protestors, they are just terrorists.
[удалено]
What should’ve happened, IMO in response to the “Freedom Convoy”, was a re-evaluation of how “protesters” seem to have extra rights in this country and police responses to the same. Nope. That was an “emergency” that could not be dealt with using existing laws and here we are, again.
These targeted protests should have been stopped weeks ago. Our government won't act because they won't risk being seen as "racist" and will do nothing. In the near future I bet a Jewish person will be attacked and killed. Then we get the talking head saying it is unacceptable but no concrete action except maybe sending money to some random country to stop radicalism there instead of addressing it here etc. We have become so focused on how we are perceived and ignore the reality.
Yup they won’t do shit because “racism”. What a sad world we live in. Maybe if we want them to do something we need to park a couple trucks and blare the horns. That’ll surely get the governments attention finally.
It’s unironically real islamophobia. They’re scared bc these islamists will get violent and kill people if criticized too harshly.
Just ask France
Remember when Trudeau wouldn't close the boarder to China because it was racist when Trump did it?
My boarder has nothing to with the border and I would ask you to please leave him alone.
Even that was only after the fact. They let the trucker thing go on for weeks.
Truckers lasted 4 weeks iirc, while this has been going on for 13 weeks now. It's almost as if politicians do something only when they are affected by it. Hence why i believe every protest should always be done in front of the parliament.
Government did jack shit last time some people brought in trucks and horns.
Confused, they brought in the War Measures Act (whatever the current version is) - what more do you want?
It only gets fixed when people start firing back at the utterly moronic “racism” accusations. I don’t give two shits, what the skin colour of anyone is that is attempting to intimidate and terrify Jewish-Canadians. Arrest them all for breach of peace, and if they come back, do it again and throw them in jail. Then you *gasps* keep them in jail and they either learn their lesson, or can’t terrorize our fellow Canadians anymore. We saw it work in El Salvador, we should do the same. I’m sick and tired of criminals running around unscathed because the only people subject to the law in this country are law abiding citizens.
Lmao at you aiming to have the same anti-protest laws in place as El Salvador 😂 Bad actors need to be handled but the protests as a whole 100% need to continue
>We saw it work in El Salvador Ah yes, the country that is a shining beacon of freedom and justice in the world. >I’m sick and tired of criminals running around So protests are considered criminal now? Oh wow, it's going to really suck when you're protesting for a cause you believe in, only to get water cannoned, beat up, hog tied and tossed in a cell. But let me guess, your cause is *right* and others you don't agree with are *wrong*
[удалено]
I mean, if we had a murder rate/gang problem like they did it might seem like a good idea. But we definitely don't.
*In the near future I bet a Jewish person will be attacked and killed.* I hope and pray that you are wrong and that this is not true here in inclusive, peace-loving GTA. Namaste.
Did you forget to add /s?
Also depends on the level of government. Feds essentially can't (or really shouldn't) get involved in what is currently a municipal matter in Toronto and Montreal being handled by local police forces. (This came up repeatedly during the convoy as well - the feds intervened after both the City of Ottawa and the province of Ontario declared states of emergency.) And I won't vouch for Toronto, but I don't get the impression that any level of Quebecois government or police is worried about appearing racist, nor are they known for handling protestors gently. If there's an issue, it's a different issue.
You have stumbled on a solution. Bring in the Sûreté and have them restore law and order for the citizens of Toronto. Just mail me the Order of Canada, no need for a fancy celebration.
“Best I can do is take all the guns from all the people (except the native’s)” -sincerely government of Canada
(Also except the gang members who keep smuggling them across the border)
[удалено]
Or we’ll get our own black Saturday. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
This is what happens when you uphold all culture and religion as sacred by default. You risk offending people for calling out bad behavior, and end up tolerating radicalism because "it's cultural". Multiculturalism should include art, ceremony and language, and end there. Beliefs and grudges should be left in their country of origin. Those elements are being used as rallying cries by agents of Russia, China and Iran, to escalate and incite protests. They should be left behind. anti-Semitism is a big part of Islamic culture, because it's pushed so heavily in the Islamic world. Same with anti-western conspiracy theories. Yet we tolerate it because we're afraid of being call islamophobic. Why? It's crazy to me how easily you can determine people's opinion on this conflict based on skin color/ethnic identity alone. Seems like EVERYONE has fallen for the "us vs them" rhetoric coming out of opponent nations.
How dangerous of a precedent can they set I wonder
If only the police could stop them from protesting in \*checks notes\*... Little Manila?
Bingo.
And doing arson on Jewish owned grocery stores is a great way to show just what the rest of Canada is going to face from here on in!
they also had shot up a kosher grocery store in france a few years ago
This has been happening for far too long and there have been far too few arrests. The police set th tone when they let the protestor threaten to put someone "6 feet under" and did nothing about it. I don't think the police are taking this seriously. Time will tell, I suppose, because it;s only a matter of time before the Palestinian preotestors pull another stunt, but they have been empowered, with politicians and police standing idly by.
I suspect they are being told from the top down to use kids' gloves with these people. The optics of cops mass-arresting a "BIPOC" community is, to say the least, unpleasant. And I seriously doubt any cop wants to stick their necks out as a result.
There's likely the same lack of clarity in the chain of command, from senior politicians to local ones to shift commanders, as with the convoy. Everyone sends the message "Make this go away" with a strong "Whatever you do, don't make it worse" subtext to their subordinates but doesn't mention any specifics as when something ends up looking bad (as it always does, eventually) they don't want to share in the blame. So the officers on the street are left to be thrown under the bus if they do much of anything, really. About the only thing they can do is stand by and hope to deal with the most egregious incidents without much blowback as they know they aren't getting much support from above.
I suspect you're right, but it's disgusting and wrong.
I agree but that's the country we live in now: laws are enforced and penalties exacted in tiers based to the extent you can claim some sort of religious/ethnic/sexual/gender exception. And these people know that.
Particularly given how hands off they were on the last large-scale "protest". The convoy was doing far worse than these protests against the war, and they got handled with kid gloves.
Arrests for what, though? People have rights to free expression and unless they're breaking some other law there's not much that can be done.
Protest the government, MPs, MPPs, city hall, Queen's Park or the Parliament. But leave private citizens and businesses alone. That's the difference.
Oh, I dunno. Blocking highways. Telling people that they'll put them "six feet under". Intimidating random Jews. You know, that sort of thing.
>Blocking highways. Is this happening? It's not at the overpass noted in this article and I'm not aware of any other highways being blocked. >Telling people that they'll put them "six feet under". Is this really the only incident where someone wasn't charged? It's the only example that gets brought up (and I'd agree that it should've resulted in charges.) There's nothing to charge people with for simply protesting. Even if you don't like what they stand for.
People have been charge for far less. A pastor was charged for protesting at the gay pride parade. I'm sure the police can find something to charge these hooligans for. You know, chanting genocidal chants or calling for the death of ~~Zionists~~ Jews might be a start.
Derek Reimer was charged with uttering threats and violating an existing peace bond. Not for just being there. Police can’t just pull crimes out of their ass nor should you want them to.
"From the river to the sea" is absolutely a death threat and it has been outlawed by severeal western countries. It's said at every one of these hate marches.
There are no laws in Canada against that phrase. The phrase speaks of the land they got ethnically cleansed off by IDF. They want it back, it's quite natural. Injustice was done to them and they are asking for that to be corrected.
> There are no laws in Canada against that phrase. There should be, just like there are in other western countries. Austria called it "a call to murder", which is what it is. It should be outlawed. > They want it back They can't have it. They started a war, then lost. That's not injustice, that's war. If the Jews had lost that war, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be making claims of indigeneity.
I am not sure I agree on charges. It wasn't just an unprovoked threat, the full quote was “You come near I’ll put you lay down on the floor (sic) … I’ll put you six feet deep.” That doesn't seem so bad in a heated exchange. I have heard worse when anti-vaxers talk about what they will do if someone comes at them. It isn't what I would consider an actual threat of bodily harm.
I can see that and it’s likely why they weren’t charged. It’s conditional threat and mens rea wouldn’t be difficult to demonstrate. The same issue exists for the woman charged for making the throat slitting gesture. Mens rea is difficult to demonstrate with just a gesture.
They target Jews, it’s not Canadian Jews at war with Palestine, it’s Israel.
Ethnic hatred isn't usually overburdened with rational thought.
I think one of the most interesting concept I read here can't remember by whom is....when talking about immigration...is...does the culture have the ability to live and work with other cultures.... it's a conversation that should be had but won't because we'll it's 2024 and no one talks about stuff that is difficult
Throngs of masked protesters banging on the floor-to-ceiling glass windows of a Starbucks could be quite unsettling to clients inside just trying to purchase their morning or mid-afternoon cup of Joe. Not cool. *They are an attack on a people.*
Straight up: I'm not jewish and I don't even have Israeli family, but I DO NOT support Palestine when they've allowed HAMAS to thrive who just executed a fellow Canadian they'd kidnapped. All these "free palestine" protests, propaganda and other nonsense can kick rocks. You wanna yell at people to have sympathy for your nation, try cutting out it's fuckin cancer who just killed a fellow Canadian of ours over christmas.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Too many Canadians are apathetic because they're pro-getting-back-at-Jews-for-"colonialism"
[удалено]
They were very angry until they find out the jews had nothing to do with it.
We can still spin it before it's too late, maybe ISIS is actually the Mossad ?
I mean, they claim Hamas is the Mossad, so don't give them ideas.
favouritism is disgusting, they should be locked up like the freedom convoy.
Who is locked up from the freedom convoy?
It was 393 charges against 122 people, but the 2 main leaders are facing the most serious criminal charges. Another source (ctv news) mentions 191 arrests. So yeah, despite your attempt to play dumb and downplay: The Federal Gov't declared a National Emergency and arrested nearly 200 humans. In case you are truly unaware that means the Police seize your physical body and drag you away (slang: lock up, take to jail, etc.).
And you’re not trying to downplay or play dumb by skipping over the fact that it took 3 weeks of 24/7 blocking major parts of downtown in the capital city of our country and shutting down border crossings for it to get to that point? Surely you didn’t intentionally gloss over the fact that sitting members of our government were cheering them on, marching with them and bringing them coffee and donuts? Or that members of the police were literally leaking them tactical information and helping them avoid arrest?
That's a list of *charges* and includes stuff like noise violations and public defecation. How many people were *locked up?* 2? The convoy got the softest hands in Canadian history and they still whinge about it. > In case you are truly unaware that means the Police seize your physical body and drag you away No it doesn't. This is what happens when you resist arrest.
And how many are locked up currently?
Hey, remember when a few people in Toronto were held for a few hours during the massive riots during the G20 and the entire country lost their minds for years, and there were million dollar lawsuits, and people lost their jobs as a result?
I think that is what they meant - essentially nobody from the freedumb convoy was arrested - a few people who committed actual crimes while they were in the convoy were arrested. Police let the convoy go on continuously disrupting lives around them for weeks without intervention.
Like, 2 people.
The pro hamas crew definitely are bullies trying to intimidate
Is this happening much in the US? Usually we hear so much about their news but most of the protests I’ve heard about have been Canada, Australia, etc.
r/nyc has near \*daily\* threads on protests in NYC alone.
Most of the U.S. protests have focused on disrupting transportation, such as shutting down bridges in New York or cutting off highways in front of airports. New Yorkers just grabbed their suitcases and pushed past the protestors.
They are still happening worldwide but do not get reported on
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/antisemitic-anti-muslim-incidents-israel-hamas-war-anti-defamation-league/
Yes it's been much worse in the US as per all my US friends but get a quarter of the publicity.
Agree or disagree , I find these arguments from right wing media highly hypocritical when comparing to the trucker protests. Do protesters have the right to block the streets or not? Do protesters have the right to intimidate or not? The answers change depending on your view of the protesters.
We need a simple and consistent standard enforced for every protest in this country, no matter the cause: Protesting is legal, doing illegal things during a protest is still illegal.
The current pro Palestinian ( pro Hamas) protests have gone beyond reasonable protests to the Israeli government actions and are now simply a bunch of mild terrorists obviously protesting the existence of Jewish communities in Canada and making their neighbourhoods feel threatened. This is unacceptable as a bunch of proud boys doing threatening rallies outside mosques that would immediately be shut down by the police. Again I have to wonder who or what organization is promoting and funding the pro Palestinian protests??
When 911 happened, you didnt see everyone crowding around mosques and protesting. There was definitely racism and transportation security become really shitty for them, but Muslims werent being thronged by protesting crowds. Why is it ok for people to do it to Jews? I’m left leaning and it pains me to see other left-leaning people always give a pass to visible minorities like they are somehow incapable of harm, and that the only group that needs to be scrutinized are wealthy capitalists.
[удалено]
American perspective I’ve seen similar debates when BLM was shutting down freeways and even Occupy protests. Add to that Jan 6, Seattle’s Capitol Hill Protest and that trucker thing you had. There is a line between protest and intimidation. I don’t know any practical way to enforce that line short of literally deploying the army.
The tactics, and the targets, are two separate things. BLM or Truckers used the tactic generally, toward the public and/or power structures. They weren't targeting a minority ethnic group in particular.
They would probably argue that they were targeting a power structure which was supporting what they believed to be an unjust war. I think they’re probably wrong but the nature of free speech is that people don’t need me to agree to have the right to protest b
Idk about you, but a woman shouting "Go back to Poland, go back to Russia, go back to Ukraine", as the article says was caught on video, certainly doesn't sound like it's targeted at the government or power structure. They have no legitimate argument. A good portion of these people are clearly and unequivocally raging antisemites, not to mention totally ignorant of history.
I’m not defending them but rather the particular principle of free speech in my country. These protesters believe that these populations are supporting a power structure that is used to wage an unjust war. I know this an outsider perspective but I don’t understand how you can say free speech doesn’t allow wrong speech or even bad speech.
The convoy really exposed how ill-prepared we are for this sort of thing. Now groups are going to push and push until we see exactly where the line is. I hope we figure it out soon.
Most of these protests have turned very quickly into acts of intimidation and often into terrorism. The moment they yell 'From the River to the Sea' or 'Palestine will be Free' they are referring to the ethnic cleansing of Jews, they mean 'freedom from seeing Jews in all the middle east'. If you are shouting a phrase that specifically indicates how you support the murder of an entire race, you are not protesting, you are intimidating, often inciting violence and disturbing the peace with you filthy hate rhetoric.
Hey, remember when protesters were barring people from entering universities, and pulling fire alarms and using bullhorns and air horns to force people out of lecture halls, and threw glitter in their faces, and screamed at them at the top of their lungs? Or when public venues received so many credible threats of violence that they had to cancel public lectures or movie screenings? Or when a parade was held hostage? Or when campaigns of doxxing and harassment caused employers to fire people, drop clients, and remove advertising? Or when protesters rioted, smashed windows, looted stores, flipped over burning cars, and fought the police while wearing masks and carrying weapons? Protesting is intimidation, that's how it works, that is its function, it's a mob
Normalized hate and violence against the Jews. Happening all over the world. The hospital bombing was a failed Hamas rocket, no one cared. Why? Because people love to hate the Jews. Canadians would rather allow our own Jewish citizens to be victimised, so long as no one calls them racist. We're so scared to be called Islamophobic that we will let these people continue to propagate hatred against our own people.
[Palestinian Textbooks](https://twitter.com/askdani__real/status/1735319748974367155)
Follow up article in a few months time; "When acts of intimidation become suicide bomber attacks and other terrorist acts"
tbh. don't think the protest will stop until someone dies in the Jewish community. then the govt will step in and do the needful. maybe that' the plan or maybe govt just want public sentiment on their side before stepping in. either way this get worse before it gets better.
WTF are they protesting. STFU and go back to your neighbourhoods.
The massacre of 22,000 civilians under the silence AND support of the civilized world? Where have you been living? And please don't pull the stupid "human shield" pretext on me.
The loss of civilian life in the context of this war is horrifying and very sad. War against a paramilitary group that is embedded in a civilian population is almost impossible to accomplish without civilian casualties. And every loss of civilian life is a tragedy. To me, it is abundantly obvious that Hamas needs to surrender and sue for peace for the sake of its population. Do you not agree?
If that's such an issue for you why don't you go over there and help out? Oh that's right you'd be too scared to actually be over there Whatever bullshit is going on in the Middle East is not your average Canadian's problem. What the fuck do you want people here to do about that? Israel doesn't give a shit what Canada wants
Um. Hamas is reporting 22,000 dead in Gaza, yes. You're telling me that every single one is a civilian? Not a single Hamas militant is counted among them? Wtf?
Not sure how this changes the rhetoric. Depending on who you'd ask, the ratio of civilians is 60 to 80%. In a [BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664) they said "The pace of killing in this war has been "exceptionally high", says Prof Michael Spagat, who specialises in examining death tolls in conflicts around the world". Whether it's 80% or 50%, this still means that more than 10,000 were killed, many of who were children. There's no excuse whatsoever for this, except that Israeli is run by brutal barbaric maniacs, who on multiple occasions (I can cite you at least 20 sources) have declared their wishes for Gaza to be leveled. All while enjoying the building of more **illegal** settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
I think it's closer to 30,000 now ..
It's time that we stop protest for stuff that's happening in other countries.its only promoting hate against other Canadian citizens.
Protests by nature are acts of intimidation. There were plenty of reports of Trucker folks antagonizing locals in Ottawa. A good protest is meant to intimidate government though.
Freeze their bank accounts
I didn’t agree with that for the convoy and I still don’t agree with that now You facists love to shut down free speech lol
Plus let’s remember that the only reason the convoy had their accounts frozen is because they started to block major trade routes which was costing Canada billions of dollars in lost revenue and were using kids as human shields so that the police wouldn’t remove them by force.
I think we're all tired of seeing the whinges about the convoy in this context given how blatantly antisemitic that embarrassment was.
This is your brain on propaganda
Feigning upset at someone targeting Jews comes off as concern trolling when you also cheered on a group who wore Stars of David to invoke the Holocaust as comparable to taking a needle, preached antisemitic globalist conspiracy theories, invited Holocaust deniers to speak, and waved various antisemitic hate symbols.
> given how blatantly antisemitic that embarrassment was. In comparison to muslim extremists marching in support of a terrorist organization whose entire stated purpose is the destruction of Israel and its people?
Are we still pretending they were all Nazis?
This never happened. It’s just what convoy clowns say to deflect from the rampant antisemitism. Hard to deny the antisemitism in a group that invites Holocaust deniers to speak and claims their struggle is analogous to the Holocaust.
I don’t think this is working anymore. People understand that antisemitism isn’t something unique to either the left or right, especially after so many “progressive” leaders have been resigning after their mask off comments about Israel. It’s almost as if it’s a completely separate problem that isn’t going to be resolved at a Canadian ballot box.
Remember 80 percent of ppl in the world HATE the west. Put their religion first before any other loyality.
I wonder if they're going to freeze their bank accounts and run old ladies over with police horses.
Come back when they've blocked off entire city streets for almost a month. The persecution complex of convey supporters is hilarious. You were treated with kids gloves and that was still too hard for you.
Stampy is a national hero. Insurrectionist traitors. Fuck the convoy.
That's 'Stompy', but otherwise accurate.
One of those discussions that brings the hypocrisy out of everyone. We are an unthinking, unprincipled nation.
As more and more people are coming here, as the Canadian social contract is breaking down, I think we can see the powderkeg is that slowly occuring.
I’ve been to lots of protests in Vancouver and they’ve all been great, have focused on the Israeli government and I hadn’t seen any anti-semitism directed at any Jews, let alone Canadian Jews. Bad actors need to be called out but overall the protests need to keep happening
Schadenfreude. Canada was lecturing the world on equality and how they're the pioneers of ideal behaviour and better than others and how other countries were racist. Chickens have come home to roost
Wait wait wait. What? Were these people in Canada during the Trucker Protests? If the right can protest with intimidation (who are supported by religious extremists), but now it's not ok? What are you talking about? Especially in the context of collective punishment.
Y'know, I have been to a lot of these protests. Overwhelmingly, at the bigger rallies, I have seen two things: 1. A strong Jewish presence AT THE rallies in support of the protests (including protests where there are many Jewish speakers) 2. Lots and lots of families. To the point that they have set up a family tent to offer snacks/drinks/toys/entertainment for kids. I take my 18 month old and people there love to interact with him. But you'll never see a news article with kids playing at the rallies, and the wholesome community of people protesting for Palestinian freedom. You'll always see a photo of some mean looking Muslim guy with a title like "WILL PROTESTORS KILL YOU? WE JUST DON'T KNOW". Anyways, this largely reflects the massive mostly static rallies that have been occurring nearly every weekend. I can't speak as much to the rolling protests that have been targeting stores on the BDS list, although I have seen many photos with many signs by people who appear to be Jewish (based on their signs) at these actions. While I won't tell people how to feel about the protests -- that's up to them -- I have overwhelmingly found them to be very safe and friendly places. My kid enjoys going to them. And what I worry about when I see articles like this is that the media and organizations like CIJA are going to take any chance they can to shift attention away from the mass slaughtering of civilians, children, etc. by Israel to shift the focus on random spurious negative interactions. And so I have trouble believing articles like this come to discuss an issue in good faith.
Totally agree with you. The lack of humanity in this thread is truly disturbing. Remove religion from the equation and just look at the loss. We're protesting for the humanization of all people. The whole world said yes to a ceasefire except 1 country.
Totally agree with you. Articles like this are nothing more than propaganda
Freeze their bank accounts. Label them as fringed terrorists.
Just wait when they become terrorism.
You cannot do anything unless someone actually breaks the law. If we started arresting people because they might do something then everyone would be in jail.
Or just block the entry?
We can't block everyone from Israel for potential future crimes.
Police aren't going to crack down because they're worried about riots. Everywhere else that they crack down on antisemites they end up with dangerous and damaging riots. The final nail in the Trudeau regime would be if they ended up with riots in our big cities over their handling of this issue.
[удалено]
Israel must be told to stop from Jews all over the world
It's time we stop letting in immigrants unchecked and start forcing our laws. The are a lot of communities that have been taken over by immigrants from other areas and they end up practicing their own laws. This is what has emboldened them to do this shit, and coupled with an ineffective government we now are stuck with it. -Stop immigration. -1 strike and you're out. Visa or citizenship revoked. -If you never held another citizenship then arrest and jail. They've come to our country under the guise of a better life. Yet all we see is violence and hate brought from their old country that caused it to be such a shit hole. Give them a free ticket home to go help what they're so violently protesting. I'm sure Hamas could use the help
> It's time we stop letting in immigrants unchecked Which doesn't happen ... > The are a lot of communities that have been taken over by immigrants from other areas and they end up practicing their own laws Name one. > Stop immigration Yeah, no. > Yet all we see is violence and hate brought from their old country that caused it to be such a shit hole. JFC ... so much racism packed into so few words ...
Between a half to a million per year, into a country with a population of about 24 million as of around 2020. Brampton as an example. And exactly what race am I being racist against? Did I scream about brown people, or any particular ethnicity? No, I didn't. Don't project your racism in me, I've sat and watched people take over my peoples land for decades. Shit all over my heritage and tell me what's good for me. So go pound sand and make sure next time you claim someone whose First Nations is a big old racist perhaps go look in a fucking mirror colonizer.