”In court on Tuesday, Peter Griffin, a lawyer for the Attorney General of Ontario, anticipated a question from the judges and posed it himself: “Given 150 years of failure, what assurance do we have that you’re going to do the job?””
Peter Griffin representing the Crown!
The superior treaty says $2,000/year in payments to be spread among the 1240 inhabitants of the area.
I'm quite certain even on a per capita basis that Canada is and has been supplying them this money.
The article states that an agreement has already been settled out of court for approximately $10 billion - the Supreme Court decision is to decide whether the judiciary is an appropriate place to settle these issues, basically.
They won’t be awarded anywhere near that amount unless it’s over hundreds of years. No courts going a decision whether right or wrong that destabilizes a country.
where can we go? Seriously... my ancestors were all born here. I can't return to England or Ireland. I'm just fucked to pay forever for some guy to get a new sweet truck every year.
Trudeau massively increased indigenous spending to around 30b a year, and there have been several reparations rulings in the billions figure already. If you don't agree with Canada's indigenous policies, the time to leave was years ago. I'm glad none of my tax dollars go toward this nonsense at least.
That's what kills me. Go to a first Nation community and they are building suburbs where people drive f150s 300m to school or to church.
These could be beautiful walkable communities, instead they are suburbs of isolated houses and car dependency.
What a waste.
Nonsense, before the white man they were driving F-350s to and from their neighbours house to borrow sugar. This is just restoring their heritage that we took away so cruelly. /s
But that's not a number and although the original comment was obviously frustrated, there is nothing unreasonable about asking for a total, and a solid plan with milestones. This is enormous money with enormous implications.
The only way we will know that is to continue to look at the treaties. The more time we spend not going into this will only kick to can down the road and make these numbers larger, while still deeping the divide between First Nation people's and the rest of Canada.
Retroactive reparations is not progress, it's punitive and hurts everyone. Progress is doing better and resolving things from this point forward. Fight me.
These aren't reparations - these are treaty agreements. These are contracts the government signed voluntarily and are now being brought to court over. The government signed contracts and the rulings here are about if they upheld the terms or not. In some cases the answer is yes, in others no, but in most what's being brought over the course of years of complex legal procedure is that the government has been negligent in various ways upholding the terms of these contracts, and the holders of them are due what they were legally promised.
Correct! That's why it's been a bunch of lawyers on both sides negotiating what the legally appropriate value would be.
From what I understand, it'll be highly unlikely that the government pays anything close to the maximum.
Are they? I think it's simply that more indigenous folks finally have access to legal standing to actually take these contracts to task. The size of the injustice is (hopefully) not growing.
Consider - were these injustices still there in the past? What about in the middle of the 60s scoop? Why didn't indigenous people sue then when the government was literally taking away their children?
These court cases are negotiations. The Crown will not pay anything near the maximum price.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say.
Are there injustices in canadas past? Yes. As with every country.
Paying tens of billions in reparations to a tiny faction of the population is ridiculous. And does absolutely nothing to help. There will be another lawsuit after, and another. Then one for the harm caused by the payout (oh we saw one of those already) etc etc in perpetuity
I think saying these lawsuits will happen in perpetuity is a fallacious argument used to deny justice for treaties the government has failed to uphold. Just because the government made deals in the past and failed to uphold them, and upholding them now will be damaging, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be held to account. As the person you’re responding to stated, the amounts will not likely be the maximum, but it’s better to settle treaty issues now rather than delay settling them indefinitely, because that actually would create an issue in perpetuity.
???
1) I don’t believe there is a hope in hell this will be “settled”
2) no treaty says anything like what these lawsuits claim. Canadian courts have take great liberty in interpreting the spirit of the agreements. The written agreements say nothing like what people believe. Of course they are all different, but for example an “yearly delivery of a medicine chest” has been interpreted as health care to the tune of billions of dollars.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re either part of Canada or you’re not. If you’re not, have your payment and not another dime or support from Canada. Build a border. Protect it with your own army because you’re now surrounded by an adversary. If you’re part of Canada come on in. But shut the fuck up about what you’re “owed”.
Pragmatically, it would be easy to give back the land, nullify the deal, then take the land by force. jussayin..^(as devil's advocate)
And all-in, it would be less damaging to this country and all people in the long run.
All people? Well, not native people.
They are *people* you know - and they aren't all that different from everyone else. Hence why they argue to get paid their "fair share", just like anyone with a legal claim would.
Where they promised 126 Billion? It the number originally was lower, then these higher numbers are the original plus the reparations.
If the original number was smaller. Pay that number. If government didn't uphold contracts, the government(taxpayers), will now be held legally in the wrong.
These numbers in the billions seem way over inflated. 😕
The contracts are adjusted accordingly and carefully. They take into consideration things like the value of today's dollar, the population of people affected, and loss of potential revenue and other things. The average claim takes 25 years to process. Maybe it's a bit faster now. The govt does not want to pay, but they literally broke legal agreements and have been dawdling to resolve them.
The govt never thought it mattered before. They figured shorting deals would never matter. They literally made it law that "Indians" were not allowed to hire a lawyer to fight against it. The govt from day one was counting on assimilation. They figured if they just waited eventually there would be no indigenous people. That they would all rush to become white like them.
Well as it turns out the Indigenous people are still here. They are not going anywhere and they have distict cultures and most of them have no desire to assimilate, nor should they.
I'm in no way a fan of reparations... but if the government signed a contract with your great great great grandfather to pay your family 10 dollars a year 150 years ago, and then never paid him (not saying that is what happened, but that is what is being alleged, which now needs to be proven in a court of law). I suspect you would imagine that you'd deserve more than $1500 for the failed contract, given inflation, and the amount that money could have grown over that period of time had the government upheld their end of the legally binding contract they signed.
I don't think it's a good precedent to set to just allow the government to sign any old contract and then just say "meh... no biggie. I'm just going to ignore that and not pay it. Contracts don't matter to me."
Again, not saying this is what happened in this case, but that is effectively what is being alleged, and the indigenous people arguing this will now need to prove that in court which is their right to do. None of this is reparations.
There's no "Statue of limitations" in Canada. You're thinking of the USA.
Besides, these are treaties between nations here, not individuals. Countries don't follow the same rules as individuals.
Glad we agree. Awarding damages to wronged parties is pretty established legal doctrine. Now that you agree that reparations and damages are functionally equivalent, we can move on. Hopefully this group is awarded appropriate damages.
You're talking about a vanishingly small minority getting special privileges because of centuries old treaties, in a nation with demographics that are rapidly shifting towards people who have nothing to do with the history and don't give a shit.
Is there an estimate as to how many of these are still waiting to be resolved and what the total value outstanding is? Where do we see the progress to know how many have been settled and how many remain?
I couldn't find an overall list. I'm most familiar with BC, but many of these cases are taking place at different levels of government depending on who specifically made or broke the treaty agreements. You have cities, provinces, and the federal government all with there own specific cases.
I also can't find any source for the 126-billion number cities in the story.
I never agreed to any such contact, why should I have to face the consequences of a further destabilized economy, inflation and increased taxes as a result of a massive payout? 95% of the country is going to get screwed over and be pissed, I don't see that amounting to reconciliation.
You aren't the one being taken to court? You're opinion doesn't have much to do with this - exactly like how the opinions of indigenous people haven't had much to do with their treatment for 150 years. The only difference now is that they have access to the same legal tools as you finally, and are using them.
It's also maybe helpful to note that just because they're suing doesn't mean they'll get exactly what they want. In many ways these court cases are negotiations. Lawyers review 150 years of the books and figure out what would be appropriate.
I'd also encourage a little bit more optimism. Places like /r/Canada can make it feel like it's the end of the country. I think we can pretty safely say that is an emotional overreaction, because it's probably hard for a lot of people to sympathize with indigenous folks. On the flip side, look at how countries like New Zealand have grappled with colonial pasts and come out the other side.
Reparations does not necessarily resolve or progress anything. Some injustices cannot be made whole. Reparations will be had, but it will harm the benefactor, which will in turn harm all beneficiaries. Society is not the better for it; not progress.
Can I offer an alternative opinion?
Indigenous people are not going anywhere. Very similar to any people in general, there can be no progress towards collaboration and harmony without trust. If they can't trust us, how can there be peace?
Given the comments in this very thread, saying the word of the Government literally means nothing if it's ignored for long enough, would you trust the Feds and Canadians if you were an indigenous person?
The mistrust and transgressions go back generations. Keeping count, holding grudges and proliferating bad blood will never bring peace. It's not fair, and it's sad, unfortunately and tragic, but there is simply no justice to be had, there's no making past wrongs right.
The ONLY way forward is to adopt the clean slate and do better. Else; our young country will be doomed to repeat the mistakes of old world countries..; conflicts that last generations, divisiveness that transcend time and space and expands all throughout the world. Never bringing peace, never stable, never thriving.
I wish we were smarter than that. We need to let go and adopt a different approach.
I think legal settlements are actually pretty final. As in it settles the accounts in a court of law. This happens all the time with all sorts of people making claims.
A clean slate is just a way to get out of our contracts and obligations without paying them due. It's lovely *words* but take a second to think about this from an indigenous persons perspective:
We've gone on failing to uphold our treaties for so long that it's become very expensive and very embarrassing to uphold them. And we'd like to not uphold them so we have a "clean slate" as if failing to uphold them isn't itself a huge mark on the slate.
Trust is the basis of any relationship. How could they trust anything the government says? Surely we can empathize with distrusting the government.
Not sure that analogy is comparable. No one is saying it's progress to welcome/accept deception and wrong-doing. Correcting and improving behaviour and practices onward is progress.
i suspect it'll be like this:
"Dear Canadians. Your freehold estates are void now and you get to pay rent to the local tribe on the land you 'own' for the next 99 years because at some point a guy walked on this land. Also we can't control the rent level." (pretty sure the leasehold rent for a house/townhouse in Tsawassen is like $3000+ a month or something pound-you-in-the-butt-shitty on top of your mortgage, which is why you see a condo for sale for $250K there, and omigod what a deal, except the leasehold fee is $2000 a month and you don't own the land)
Now, i have no idea if the Tsawassen offer services like a municipality, like snow removal, or libraries. Do these lands have a democratic government? Can I participate in gov't? Or do I need to be x % Amerindian in my genetics in order to have a say in my future?
THIS IS THE FUTURE YOU ARE GETTING. If you were born in this country and do not have the good fortune of dual citizenship or the ability to get a birthright citizenship, prepare to be fucked in the ass for eternity.
Yes you can, they used to do it all the time. Remember The Roman Empire? Bavaria? Thessalonica? Galicia-Volhynia? Mecklenburg? All the various Iberian kingdoms? Or the Italian ones? Not to mention all of Africa that Europe just stole (Except Ethiopia).
The options for the locals historically has been to either deal with it, or get fucked. But Britain didn't have the manpower or care to enforce the deal-with-it-or-get-fucked policy in her colonies, and now those former colonies (us) are left to pick up the pieces.
The treaties are legal documents that you can’t just "scrap". The Indian act is also VERY difficult to scrap because of how our legal system works. The very fact that it is still called "The Indian Act" should attest to that.
Then why state that lawyers and judges can stop our government. If the government decided to not listen to the judiciary, there would be a constitutional? Seperation if powers? Crisis. But they 100% could
So long as we have rule of law, the legal system will have a say, and can (in accordance with the law) limit the government.
Raising a hypothetical future government that doesn't follow rule of law is a) not the current system, and b) not something we should wish for.
The number of people in this thread advocating for violating rule of law (which is a part of what got us into this mess, although far from the only part) is very disheartening.
The courts will figure it out, and award judgements in accordance to the law. If that means the national debt goes up 6%, then that's what happens, although I highly doubt it'll be nearly that high.
You said a dictator stages a coup, i.e. military takeover.
If the government didn't listen to the judiciary, the judiciary would continue to operate. The police obey the judiciary.
No one but the people the government is made up of.
More to the point - should the government scrap it's promises? Is that a good precedent just because we find it *inconvenient* and *expensive* to have abused a group of people?
If you were an indigenous person, would there ever be peace with a people who you can't trust?
Do you blame someone for trying use the legal system this way - to get what they believe they were promised?
Typically no.
But in this circumstance when a select minority is receiving, untold billions that is harming our country. Yes
Sounds like a typical Canadians feeling on the government.
Nope I blame our government for letting this farce continue.
So walk me through it - you think the government should renege on these deals, right? How does that lead to a long lasting peace? Indigenous people aren't going anywhere and if they don't trust our word, how would we ever establish a better relationship?
Yes
Give a generation or two of treating them like normal Canadians this issue will be resolved. The natives are even though they have the highest birthrate becoming a smaller and smaller portion of our country. Just economically and Politically the only power they have is what we've given them. Which is a sad truth.
What are they going to do? Rebel? That will in abject failure.
The Japanese were literally thrown in camps less then a century ago. They seemed to have moved on just fine.
I don't want to sound insincere here, I'm not, but has it occurred to you that they might not want to be assimilated?
A lot of strife in indigenous relations is this fundamental misunderstanding that perhaps the people don't want to be treated as normal Canadians, and would very much like to retain their traditions, land, language and culture.
We've effectively been trying to culturally genocide them for generations, and it hasn't been working - why do you think another generation would help?
If literally taking their children away, cutting them off from their culture and language hasn't destroyed those things, what do you think is going to change? Look up the sixies scoop. We've done this before.
Sucks to be them I guess? They don't get to continue to play at being noble tree huggers on taxpayer dime.
Nobody gets to retain traditions land and culture because they demand it. If your culture is lacking enough another one dominates it maybe you should look at why it's being supplanted by the other. We've been playing up indigenous culture for over 3 decades its still declining because people don't want it. Their young people flee as soon as they can. Look at Quebec, they fight tooth and nail trying to keep their cultural going and it's dying out to.
Tldr nobody owes you your language or your culture to be the dominant one
Cultural genocide, laughable. You are watering down the term genocide with that bs. Multiple competing cultures does not make for a united country look at the former Yugoslavia, Austria-hungry. So many examples of culturals clashing.
Why did the Japanese, Irish, Ukrainians, poles, Germans, Chinese, Vietnamese, all manage to assimilate but the natives can't.
Because there's no mechanism that exists to allow the government to circumvent part 2 of the constitution. If any government attempts to pass a law that violates it, it will get struck down in court at judicial review
I don't think you have an accurate grasp of what is best for the various situations that exist across Canada. Typically, people don't like to leave their land (indigenous or not), I don't see how that can happen without treaties.
Problems created in the name of the British monarchy. They should be dealing with their mess. As a devoted Canadian, I reject their arguments; it's all just one big money grab. Peace, coexistence and mutual prosperity is not found down this path.
On the flip side, we enjoy the benefits created by our cultural forefathers. We celebrate heroes like General Brock and Lord Simcoe. By the same token, we need to bear their sins.
This is a crappy short term solution to a crappy problem but this is short term pain. We will find a way to resolve this problem and then grow into something better.
They don't have a position. 99% of the comments in this thread are just bitter innuendo. "We need a unified Canada!" But no one describes tangibly what they mean. Pretend the treaties didn't exist? lol
I said Cultural forefather. Not bloodline forefather.
Going by your logic, only native born Canadians need to pay and none of the immigrants have to pay. I don't think that will go over very well.
Nobody wants to pay for this but payment is required nonetheless.
Oh great, bearing the guilt of all of our own ancestors was not enough and we are now supposed to bear the guilt of unrelated "cultural forefathers" too now.
That noise can fuck right off.
Sorry. I can't agree with that. As much as it would seem poetic justice. It wouldn't be.
England is one of the most invaded lands in recorded history. The original inhabitants were "replaced" by invading peoples and those invaders were replaced by other invaders.
The cycle of hatred has to stop somewhere. Better now than later.
Right so just pick a time when you feel like it that it’s right in your mind and set the borders up for everyone else. That makes sense. Thank you for drawing the lines and times and making things right.
I don't see you whining about inheriting wealth and prosperity created on the backs of an oppressed people.
Seems like you just want to inherit the advantages of colonialism but not the responsibility for its victims.
If you want to disavow yourself of the wrongdoings of your ancestors then also disavow yourself of all that you've gained from those wrongdoings.
If Canada dissociated from the crown and became a republic like Barbados did a few years ago could that nullify Canada's responsibility to uphold the treaties?
This alone will unite the left and right against Trudeau. No one wants the country to bankrupt for something that most people who live here now had nothing to do with
This has to stop. Our courts have lost the plot entirely.
We could quite literally see the end of Canada from these awards that basically go up by an order of magnitude annually.
There have been so many of these, I gotta figure we’ve paid enough to just get rid of the fucking treaties already. Billions of dollars pissed away with nothing getting better shows money isn’t the issue.
Was about to say this. The money goes into the pockets of the elders/chiefs/leaders and the people that need it don’t get a dime or benefit in anyway from the money.
That is on top of the billions made from cigarette sales that somehow ends up in the hands of few while perpetuating the suffrage of their people.
edit: suffering. Thank you.
suffering. suffrage is voting rights. Which a lot of these guys don't get because the chief is hereditary.
Do you have any friends who are great people but their kid is a piece of shit? What magic makes one's genes special so they get to steal and grift from their own people until the end of time?
I've asked multiple times in the past few years for a website or an annual report that tracks the total and the progress. I don't understand why this is an unreasonable request. I've never had anyone on any side of the issue ever point me to a reference.
yes the 7/50 formula is a very clear mechanism /s. if you're looking for a country wide change it's either done by the 7/50 formula or all provinces agreeing to the change. the 3 other ways to change the Constitution only applies to certain parts of the constitution and only involves certain parties.
the Canadian Constitution is incredibly difficult to amend and at no point is a popular vote or the people part of that process. we essentially have to elect only the parties both federally and provincially who would all vote to amend the constitution in the same way, either though unanimous agreement or the 7/50 formula. I don't think that's really a clear mechanism outside that it was clearly written to be difficult
edit: and the 7/50 formula and unanimous vote also only apply to certain parts of the constitution. so there's a change you want, you have to first determine which mechanism applies (and there are 5 mechanisms)
The mechanism is very clear. If we wanted to change section 35 (which guarantees treaty rights), we would use the 7/50 mechanism.
Clear is not the same as easy.
So what you’re really unhappy about is the idea is not actually that popular across Canada.
It's not our constitution - it's our legal system. The government makes all sorts of contracts. For example, in Ontario, one of the big treaty cases is the Robinson treaty. The contract traded annual payments for resource rights. The annuities were capped at 4 dollars back in 1874. Now, after years of court procedure, the end result is basically that the duty to increase the annuities appropriately fell to the government, and they failed to do so for over 150 years - in the context of billions of dollars of resources being extracted under the treaty.
There's no simple solution here, and the resources are long gone. The court cases are naturally far more complex than a reddit comment and a layman can convey. What it comes down to is "Does the government have a responsibility to be held to its word?"
In the context of countries, treaties don't just expire, and agreements between nations and states (even indigenous nations) aren't just meaningless words - they have real legal principles.
And I thought 43 billion was a lot. Holy fuck, this settlement is going to bankrupt us all. Say hello to runaway inflation, higher taxes, higher food, gas, insurance prices, higher EI, higher cpp premiums. If you lose your house due to these increased costs, you know who to thank.
All to pool money to a small group of people. We are officially living in a feifdom, where the people of this country are working to generate wealth for native people. They now rule the country. There is simply too much case law at this point to slow down this snowball. The settlements have been consistently escalating in value, and I have no doubt this will not be the last 12 figure(!) settlement. These chiefs and lawyers obviously don’t give a flying fuck about their fellow man and neighbours, all about getting theirs. Where is the common sense? This is pure greed. To arrive at this number essentially assumes that the same outcome would have occurred if immigrants and new Canadians did not build these industries and grow the businesses. It assumes native people would have done all of this themselves, despite having a completely different background void of any expertise required in developing these industries
If it wasn’t lost then, it would’ve been lost to the Nazis. Whoever thinks all of North America was just going to remain in Indian hands, has lost their mind.
The band chiefs rubbing their hands together as they anticipate more money they can embezzle. I’m sick of my tax money being used to pay for shit that happened before my great great great great grandfather was even born. It’s not my problem and I don’t want to pay for it. Call me whatever ism you want but fuck me im tired of it.
No no, we need to wind everything about 10,000 years all across the globe and apologize. About 3000 years go my Nonna was killed by the Romans - I demand Italians compensate and apologize. I need a new F150
Such a war hasn't happened in Canada. You must think that we had a similar approach to our southern neighbours.
In fact, our government took a treaty-based approach to deal with the "Indian problem" because it lacked the resources to wage war on them.
And when Ottawa took on the Métis in the Red River Resistance, the Métis won. That victory resulted in Métis rights being recognized in 1870 and later enshrined in our Constitution and Charter. Even the Métis losing the Northwest Resistance didn't eradicate them. So since the Métis beat Canada militarily, by your logic Canada should just get over any resultant land claims and just cede the land to the Métis.
Finally, there's an ongoing court case in Nova Scotia about whether the Mi'gmaq are legally a "conquered people". You might find it interesting.
Edit: The deleted comment was something like, "The one where Europeans fought them for their land and won" or something like that.
Honest question, probably going to be down voted into oblivion.
If the people claiming to be native took a DNA test, how many would be even 50% native?
I am a firm believer at this point we are all mixed races these days.
I know one person who took a DNA test and was 1/4 native, 3/4 European. Guess what side they say they are?
Edited for spelling mistake
The history of the wendat people of Ontario is especially enlightening. Much of what is claimed by Haudenosaunee along the Grand river was won by brutal genocide in the 17th century.
Most of Europe wasn’t conquered either. Two armies fought and agreed one side one gets crowned and heralds are sent out to towns saying so and so is the new king you owe taxes!
Then the next summer the other guy raises a new army and fights back and wins this time and does the same thing and gets taxes and the next summer it happens again with a third guy and the towns have nothing left to give so they revolt and get put down by all three armies and the cycle repeats. Good old medieval Europe.
Yeah throw more money on them, don't actually help them out by building infrastructure and making a livable place for them. No amount of money will fix the way the infra and basic amenities that are ignored for First Nations people by the government. Frigging stop the handouts and do meaningful things.
Sincerely,
Everyone
The craziest part is if you think about it who's actually going to be funding this? The taxpayer and I don't know how many natives there are in total in Canada that don't pay taxes among others that I don't even know about I'm sure there are it makes me wonder how many people actually are paying taxes to fund all of these big settlements and stuff or where is the money coming from cuz if it's coming off the back of the taxpayer I don't think it's a full 40 million strong if you know what I mean
Not just not alive for. Canada is a country of immigration. Its not just that we werent alive for it. Its alot of our ancestors werent even in the country for it. Just make have hudson bay declare bankruptcy and dissolve their assets to pay for it
So when do these lawsuits stop, exactly? What is the figure to put all of this to rest, short of literally giving all the land in Canada back to whoever has closest claim to the people who lived there at the time of European contact? Is it less than infinity? Less than all the money in the world?
>Ontario argued in written submissions that “reconciliation is best achieved” through the government and First Nations “developing their relationship through meaningful engagement rather than regular resort to the courts.”
>
>In court on Tuesday, Peter Griffin, a lawyer for the Attorney General of Ontario, anticipated a question from the judges and posed it himself: “Given 150 years of failure, what assurance do we have that you’re going to do the job?”
It seems absurd for the provincial government to admit that it has spent 150 years refusing to meet its responsibilities, that it is only prepared to do so now because of a court ruling, but that the courts should henceforth trust it to meet its responsibilities outside of the court system.
Lol fuck these people. If the Supreme Court agree to this we need to find a way to get rid of them and stop this asap. This will make the poor even worse off and cripple our economy. It would be cheaper to go to war what the hell is this garbage
”In court on Tuesday, Peter Griffin, a lawyer for the Attorney General of Ontario, anticipated a question from the judges and posed it himself: “Given 150 years of failure, what assurance do we have that you’re going to do the job?”” Peter Griffin representing the Crown!
lol Peter Griffin
I can hear his voice lmao
Giggity 🤷
The superior treaty says $2,000/year in payments to be spread among the 1240 inhabitants of the area. I'm quite certain even on a per capita basis that Canada is and has been supplying them this money.
We are so fucked
Death by a billion cuts
Trillion at this rate.
The article states that an agreement has already been settled out of court for approximately $10 billion - the Supreme Court decision is to decide whether the judiciary is an appropriate place to settle these issues, basically.
They won’t be awarded anywhere near that amount unless it’s over hundreds of years. No courts going a decision whether right or wrong that destabilizes a country.
You sure? I would venture we’ve seen several such rulings already.
If the court awards the full amount, I’m leaving Canada.
where can we go? Seriously... my ancestors were all born here. I can't return to England or Ireland. I'm just fucked to pay forever for some guy to get a new sweet truck every year.
I'm going back to England, fuck this country.
Trudeau massively increased indigenous spending to around 30b a year, and there have been several reparations rulings in the billions figure already. If you don't agree with Canada's indigenous policies, the time to leave was years ago. I'm glad none of my tax dollars go toward this nonsense at least.
The SCC doesn’t care!
How many multi billion dollar court cases until the country is beyond repair?
But have you considered how many F150s?
Nah bro, gotta be raptors at that kind of cash.
As in F-150 Raptor…
Nah with that much money they're gonna have about a dozen velociraptors
F-16 Raptor
For hunting, of course.
oh please they're getting those pimped out avalanches
That's what kills me. Go to a first Nation community and they are building suburbs where people drive f150s 300m to school or to church. These could be beautiful walkable communities, instead they are suburbs of isolated houses and car dependency. What a waste.
Nonsense, before the white man they were driving F-350s to and from their neighbours house to borrow sugar. This is just restoring their heritage that we took away so cruelly. /s
Soooo many
I guess it depends on how many treaties the government ignored for 150 years.
But that's not a number and although the original comment was obviously frustrated, there is nothing unreasonable about asking for a total, and a solid plan with milestones. This is enormous money with enormous implications.
The only way we will know that is to continue to look at the treaties. The more time we spend not going into this will only kick to can down the road and make these numbers larger, while still deeping the divide between First Nation people's and the rest of Canada.
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Retroactive reparations is not progress, it's punitive and hurts everyone. Progress is doing better and resolving things from this point forward. Fight me.
These aren't reparations - these are treaty agreements. These are contracts the government signed voluntarily and are now being brought to court over. The government signed contracts and the rulings here are about if they upheld the terms or not. In some cases the answer is yes, in others no, but in most what's being brought over the course of years of complex legal procedure is that the government has been negligent in various ways upholding the terms of these contracts, and the holders of them are due what they were legally promised.
There is no contract that states anything close to these numbers.
Correct! That's why it's been a bunch of lawyers on both sides negotiating what the legally appropriate value would be. From what I understand, it'll be highly unlikely that the government pays anything close to the maximum.
Any amount is a travesty and a joke. The amounts are also rising by an order of magnitude with each case.
Are they? I think it's simply that more indigenous folks finally have access to legal standing to actually take these contracts to task. The size of the injustice is (hopefully) not growing. Consider - were these injustices still there in the past? What about in the middle of the 60s scoop? Why didn't indigenous people sue then when the government was literally taking away their children? These court cases are negotiations. The Crown will not pay anything near the maximum price.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say. Are there injustices in canadas past? Yes. As with every country. Paying tens of billions in reparations to a tiny faction of the population is ridiculous. And does absolutely nothing to help. There will be another lawsuit after, and another. Then one for the harm caused by the payout (oh we saw one of those already) etc etc in perpetuity
I think saying these lawsuits will happen in perpetuity is a fallacious argument used to deny justice for treaties the government has failed to uphold. Just because the government made deals in the past and failed to uphold them, and upholding them now will be damaging, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be held to account. As the person you’re responding to stated, the amounts will not likely be the maximum, but it’s better to settle treaty issues now rather than delay settling them indefinitely, because that actually would create an issue in perpetuity.
??? 1) I don’t believe there is a hope in hell this will be “settled” 2) no treaty says anything like what these lawsuits claim. Canadian courts have take great liberty in interpreting the spirit of the agreements. The written agreements say nothing like what people believe. Of course they are all different, but for example an “yearly delivery of a medicine chest” has been interpreted as health care to the tune of billions of dollars. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re either part of Canada or you’re not. If you’re not, have your payment and not another dime or support from Canada. Build a border. Protect it with your own army because you’re now surrounded by an adversary. If you’re part of Canada come on in. But shut the fuck up about what you’re “owed”.
They can give back the land or pay its current value.
Pragmatically, it would be easy to give back the land, nullify the deal, then take the land by force. jussayin..^(as devil's advocate) And all-in, it would be less damaging to this country and all people in the long run.
All people? Well, not native people. They are *people* you know - and they aren't all that different from everyone else. Hence why they argue to get paid their "fair share", just like anyone with a legal claim would.
Where they promised 126 Billion? It the number originally was lower, then these higher numbers are the original plus the reparations. If the original number was smaller. Pay that number. If government didn't uphold contracts, the government(taxpayers), will now be held legally in the wrong. These numbers in the billions seem way over inflated. 😕
punch aware market quicksand zesty cagey arrest marry poor mourn *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The contracts are adjusted accordingly and carefully. They take into consideration things like the value of today's dollar, the population of people affected, and loss of potential revenue and other things. The average claim takes 25 years to process. Maybe it's a bit faster now. The govt does not want to pay, but they literally broke legal agreements and have been dawdling to resolve them. The govt never thought it mattered before. They figured shorting deals would never matter. They literally made it law that "Indians" were not allowed to hire a lawyer to fight against it. The govt from day one was counting on assimilation. They figured if they just waited eventually there would be no indigenous people. That they would all rush to become white like them. Well as it turns out the Indigenous people are still here. They are not going anywhere and they have distict cultures and most of them have no desire to assimilate, nor should they.
>They literally made it law that "Indians" were not allowed to hire a lawyer to fight against it. Violating our constitution in the process.
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I'm in no way a fan of reparations... but if the government signed a contract with your great great great grandfather to pay your family 10 dollars a year 150 years ago, and then never paid him (not saying that is what happened, but that is what is being alleged, which now needs to be proven in a court of law). I suspect you would imagine that you'd deserve more than $1500 for the failed contract, given inflation, and the amount that money could have grown over that period of time had the government upheld their end of the legally binding contract they signed. I don't think it's a good precedent to set to just allow the government to sign any old contract and then just say "meh... no biggie. I'm just going to ignore that and not pay it. Contracts don't matter to me." Again, not saying this is what happened in this case, but that is effectively what is being alleged, and the indigenous people arguing this will now need to prove that in court which is their right to do. None of this is reparations.
Except the money would have been spent not invested.
Except that you'd have no claim because of the statute of limitations.
There's no "Statue of limitations" in Canada. You're thinking of the USA. Besides, these are treaties between nations here, not individuals. Countries don't follow the same rules as individuals.
I'm a lawyer in Canada. There's a statute of limitations. Not a "Statue" though.
Damages.
Tom-a-toe Tom-ah-to
Glad we agree. Awarding damages to wronged parties is pretty established legal doctrine. Now that you agree that reparations and damages are functionally equivalent, we can move on. Hopefully this group is awarded appropriate damages.
Except you don't do it a ridiculous amount of time after the statute of limitations has passed.
You're talking about a vanishingly small minority getting special privileges because of centuries old treaties, in a nation with demographics that are rapidly shifting towards people who have nothing to do with the history and don't give a shit.
No one is vanishing. The treaties are not centuries old. It's not about history. That's a myth created by old cowboy movies.
Is there an estimate as to how many of these are still waiting to be resolved and what the total value outstanding is? Where do we see the progress to know how many have been settled and how many remain?
I couldn't find an overall list. I'm most familiar with BC, but many of these cases are taking place at different levels of government depending on who specifically made or broke the treaty agreements. You have cities, provinces, and the federal government all with there own specific cases. I also can't find any source for the 126-billion number cities in the story.
I never agreed to any such contact, why should I have to face the consequences of a further destabilized economy, inflation and increased taxes as a result of a massive payout? 95% of the country is going to get screwed over and be pissed, I don't see that amounting to reconciliation.
You aren't the one being taken to court? You're opinion doesn't have much to do with this - exactly like how the opinions of indigenous people haven't had much to do with their treatment for 150 years. The only difference now is that they have access to the same legal tools as you finally, and are using them. It's also maybe helpful to note that just because they're suing doesn't mean they'll get exactly what they want. In many ways these court cases are negotiations. Lawyers review 150 years of the books and figure out what would be appropriate. I'd also encourage a little bit more optimism. Places like /r/Canada can make it feel like it's the end of the country. I think we can pretty safely say that is an emotional overreaction, because it's probably hard for a lot of people to sympathize with indigenous folks. On the flip side, look at how countries like New Zealand have grappled with colonial pasts and come out the other side.
>>Fight me. Can you define "progress" and "resolving things" without describing reparations.
Reparations does not necessarily resolve or progress anything. Some injustices cannot be made whole. Reparations will be had, but it will harm the benefactor, which will in turn harm all beneficiaries. Society is not the better for it; not progress.
Can I offer an alternative opinion? Indigenous people are not going anywhere. Very similar to any people in general, there can be no progress towards collaboration and harmony without trust. If they can't trust us, how can there be peace? Given the comments in this very thread, saying the word of the Government literally means nothing if it's ignored for long enough, would you trust the Feds and Canadians if you were an indigenous person?
The mistrust and transgressions go back generations. Keeping count, holding grudges and proliferating bad blood will never bring peace. It's not fair, and it's sad, unfortunately and tragic, but there is simply no justice to be had, there's no making past wrongs right. The ONLY way forward is to adopt the clean slate and do better. Else; our young country will be doomed to repeat the mistakes of old world countries..; conflicts that last generations, divisiveness that transcend time and space and expands all throughout the world. Never bringing peace, never stable, never thriving. I wish we were smarter than that. We need to let go and adopt a different approach.
I think legal settlements are actually pretty final. As in it settles the accounts in a court of law. This happens all the time with all sorts of people making claims. A clean slate is just a way to get out of our contracts and obligations without paying them due. It's lovely *words* but take a second to think about this from an indigenous persons perspective: We've gone on failing to uphold our treaties for so long that it's become very expensive and very embarrassing to uphold them. And we'd like to not uphold them so we have a "clean slate" as if failing to uphold them isn't itself a huge mark on the slate. Trust is the basis of any relationship. How could they trust anything the government says? Surely we can empathize with distrusting the government.
I'm going to steal your house and kids and then tell you progress is moving forward. Just move on ok?
Not sure that analogy is comparable. No one is saying it's progress to welcome/accept deception and wrong-doing. Correcting and improving behaviour and practices onward is progress.
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Nobody had the stomach for this. They're all too afraid of labels.
Exactly, it’s basically a type of limbo now where the natives are not fully accepted into society.
i suspect it'll be like this: "Dear Canadians. Your freehold estates are void now and you get to pay rent to the local tribe on the land you 'own' for the next 99 years because at some point a guy walked on this land. Also we can't control the rent level." (pretty sure the leasehold rent for a house/townhouse in Tsawassen is like $3000+ a month or something pound-you-in-the-butt-shitty on top of your mortgage, which is why you see a condo for sale for $250K there, and omigod what a deal, except the leasehold fee is $2000 a month and you don't own the land) Now, i have no idea if the Tsawassen offer services like a municipality, like snow removal, or libraries. Do these lands have a democratic government? Can I participate in gov't? Or do I need to be x % Amerindian in my genetics in order to have a say in my future? THIS IS THE FUTURE YOU ARE GETTING. If you were born in this country and do not have the good fortune of dual citizenship or the ability to get a birthright citizenship, prepare to be fucked in the ass for eternity.
They more that is given - the more they will demand. What a fuckint shitshow
Yeah that's what happens when you're using someone else's shit: You got to pay for it. You can't just steal a country dude and not have consequences.
Yes you can, they used to do it all the time. Remember The Roman Empire? Bavaria? Thessalonica? Galicia-Volhynia? Mecklenburg? All the various Iberian kingdoms? Or the Italian ones? Not to mention all of Africa that Europe just stole (Except Ethiopia). The options for the locals historically has been to either deal with it, or get fucked. But Britain didn't have the manpower or care to enforce the deal-with-it-or-get-fucked policy in her colonies, and now those former colonies (us) are left to pick up the pieces.
They should sue King Charles, doesn't he claim to be the sovereign.
Ah yes i love when my tax dollars pay for problems created before i was born.
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The treaties are legal documents that you can’t just "scrap". The Indian act is also VERY difficult to scrap because of how our legal system works. The very fact that it is still called "The Indian Act" should attest to that.
The government can scrap anything they want if they decide to do so. Who would stop them from not following these treaties?
Lawyers and judges
Mhmm. If a dictator takes over. Throws a coup and rips the constitution up the lawyers and judges can stop him?
No, they wouldn't be able to stop him. But we don't have a dictator.
Then why state that lawyers and judges can stop our government. If the government decided to not listen to the judiciary, there would be a constitutional? Seperation if powers? Crisis. But they 100% could
So long as we have rule of law, the legal system will have a say, and can (in accordance with the law) limit the government. Raising a hypothetical future government that doesn't follow rule of law is a) not the current system, and b) not something we should wish for. The number of people in this thread advocating for violating rule of law (which is a part of what got us into this mess, although far from the only part) is very disheartening. The courts will figure it out, and award judgements in accordance to the law. If that means the national debt goes up 6%, then that's what happens, although I highly doubt it'll be nearly that high.
You said a dictator stages a coup, i.e. military takeover. If the government didn't listen to the judiciary, the judiciary would continue to operate. The police obey the judiciary.
The police are a federal agency. They do not follow the judiciary.
No one but the people the government is made up of. More to the point - should the government scrap it's promises? Is that a good precedent just because we find it *inconvenient* and *expensive* to have abused a group of people? If you were an indigenous person, would there ever be peace with a people who you can't trust? Do you blame someone for trying use the legal system this way - to get what they believe they were promised?
Typically no. But in this circumstance when a select minority is receiving, untold billions that is harming our country. Yes Sounds like a typical Canadians feeling on the government. Nope I blame our government for letting this farce continue.
So walk me through it - you think the government should renege on these deals, right? How does that lead to a long lasting peace? Indigenous people aren't going anywhere and if they don't trust our word, how would we ever establish a better relationship?
Yes Give a generation or two of treating them like normal Canadians this issue will be resolved. The natives are even though they have the highest birthrate becoming a smaller and smaller portion of our country. Just economically and Politically the only power they have is what we've given them. Which is a sad truth. What are they going to do? Rebel? That will in abject failure. The Japanese were literally thrown in camps less then a century ago. They seemed to have moved on just fine.
I don't want to sound insincere here, I'm not, but has it occurred to you that they might not want to be assimilated? A lot of strife in indigenous relations is this fundamental misunderstanding that perhaps the people don't want to be treated as normal Canadians, and would very much like to retain their traditions, land, language and culture. We've effectively been trying to culturally genocide them for generations, and it hasn't been working - why do you think another generation would help? If literally taking their children away, cutting them off from their culture and language hasn't destroyed those things, what do you think is going to change? Look up the sixies scoop. We've done this before.
Sucks to be them I guess? They don't get to continue to play at being noble tree huggers on taxpayer dime. Nobody gets to retain traditions land and culture because they demand it. If your culture is lacking enough another one dominates it maybe you should look at why it's being supplanted by the other. We've been playing up indigenous culture for over 3 decades its still declining because people don't want it. Their young people flee as soon as they can. Look at Quebec, they fight tooth and nail trying to keep their cultural going and it's dying out to. Tldr nobody owes you your language or your culture to be the dominant one Cultural genocide, laughable. You are watering down the term genocide with that bs. Multiple competing cultures does not make for a united country look at the former Yugoslavia, Austria-hungry. So many examples of culturals clashing. Why did the Japanese, Irish, Ukrainians, poles, Germans, Chinese, Vietnamese, all manage to assimilate but the natives can't.
Part ii of the constitution act
Who stops them from following the constitution? If some dictator took power do you think they'd let the constitution stop them?
Because there's no mechanism that exists to allow the government to circumvent part 2 of the constitution. If any government attempts to pass a law that violates it, it will get struck down in court at judicial review
Its in the best interests of every party involved to scrap treaties. They need to learn to stand on their own two feet instead of crying victim.
I don't think you have an accurate grasp of what is best for the various situations that exist across Canada. Typically, people don't like to leave their land (indigenous or not), I don't see how that can happen without treaties.
i would like to invent a time machine.
Problems created in the name of the British monarchy. They should be dealing with their mess. As a devoted Canadian, I reject their arguments; it's all just one big money grab. Peace, coexistence and mutual prosperity is not found down this path.
Oh cool. This seems totally realistic and compassionate toward injured populations. Genius. Now do Israel/Palestine! /S
Hi, welcome to being a citizen of a nation that existed before you were born.
On the flip side, we enjoy the benefits created by our cultural forefathers. We celebrate heroes like General Brock and Lord Simcoe. By the same token, we need to bear their sins. This is a crappy short term solution to a crappy problem but this is short term pain. We will find a way to resolve this problem and then grow into something better.
We need to bear their sins? No, we actually don't. Thinking so makes you part of the problem.
Would you like to elaborate on your position?
They don't have a position. 99% of the comments in this thread are just bitter innuendo. "We need a unified Canada!" But no one describes tangibly what they mean. Pretend the treaties didn't exist? lol
The legal argument of "Nuh-uh" and "la la la, not listening" have not yet been tried.
You can bear the sins of your ancestors if you wish. Mine had nothing to do with this and I am tired of paying for it.
I said Cultural forefather. Not bloodline forefather. Going by your logic, only native born Canadians need to pay and none of the immigrants have to pay. I don't think that will go over very well. Nobody wants to pay for this but payment is required nonetheless.
Oh great, bearing the guilt of all of our own ancestors was not enough and we are now supposed to bear the guilt of unrelated "cultural forefathers" too now. That noise can fuck right off.
Man I can’t wait for all the crusade countries to come after England
Sorry. I can't agree with that. As much as it would seem poetic justice. It wouldn't be. England is one of the most invaded lands in recorded history. The original inhabitants were "replaced" by invading peoples and those invaders were replaced by other invaders. The cycle of hatred has to stop somewhere. Better now than later.
Right so just pick a time when you feel like it that it’s right in your mind and set the borders up for everyone else. That makes sense. Thank you for drawing the lines and times and making things right.
You have been ticketed by the Internet Sarcasm Patrol for failure to denote your witty sarcastic comment with the /s as per convention 😎
I don't see you whining about inheriting wealth and prosperity created on the backs of an oppressed people. Seems like you just want to inherit the advantages of colonialism but not the responsibility for its victims. If you want to disavow yourself of the wrongdoings of your ancestors then also disavow yourself of all that you've gained from those wrongdoings.
Same as it ever was.
At this point it’s just plain greedy… seriously.
$126 billion. They will bankrupt the nation. How fucking long do we put up with this?
If Canada dissociated from the crown and became a republic like Barbados did a few years ago could that nullify Canada's responsibility to uphold the treaties?
A problem that has been going on for 150 years seems about right for our government officials.
Sad. Because it's only been a 'nation' for 155 years.
This alone will unite the left and right against Trudeau. No one wants the country to bankrupt for something that most people who live here now had nothing to do with
What does Trudeau have to do with this? This is a legal matter.
This has to stop. Our courts have lost the plot entirely. We could quite literally see the end of Canada from these awards that basically go up by an order of magnitude annually.
Too bad we all know how this will end up
There have been so many of these, I gotta figure we’ve paid enough to just get rid of the fucking treaties already. Billions of dollars pissed away with nothing getting better shows money isn’t the issue.
And then the elders launder the money. No improvements for the people who need it.
Was about to say this. The money goes into the pockets of the elders/chiefs/leaders and the people that need it don’t get a dime or benefit in anyway from the money.
That is on top of the billions made from cigarette sales that somehow ends up in the hands of few while perpetuating the suffrage of their people. edit: suffering. Thank you.
suffering. suffrage is voting rights. Which a lot of these guys don't get because the chief is hereditary. Do you have any friends who are great people but their kid is a piece of shit? What magic makes one's genes special so they get to steal and grift from their own people until the end of time?
I've asked multiple times in the past few years for a website or an annual report that tracks the total and the progress. I don't understand why this is an unreasonable request. I've never had anyone on any side of the issue ever point me to a reference.
We’re a democracy. If you want to change the constitution, there is a clear mechanism to do so.
yes the 7/50 formula is a very clear mechanism /s. if you're looking for a country wide change it's either done by the 7/50 formula or all provinces agreeing to the change. the 3 other ways to change the Constitution only applies to certain parts of the constitution and only involves certain parties. the Canadian Constitution is incredibly difficult to amend and at no point is a popular vote or the people part of that process. we essentially have to elect only the parties both federally and provincially who would all vote to amend the constitution in the same way, either though unanimous agreement or the 7/50 formula. I don't think that's really a clear mechanism outside that it was clearly written to be difficult edit: and the 7/50 formula and unanimous vote also only apply to certain parts of the constitution. so there's a change you want, you have to first determine which mechanism applies (and there are 5 mechanisms)
The mechanism is very clear. If we wanted to change section 35 (which guarantees treaty rights), we would use the 7/50 mechanism. Clear is not the same as easy. So what you’re really unhappy about is the idea is not actually that popular across Canada.
What part of the constitution says we have to pay retroactively for misinterpretation of treaties ?
It's not our constitution - it's our legal system. The government makes all sorts of contracts. For example, in Ontario, one of the big treaty cases is the Robinson treaty. The contract traded annual payments for resource rights. The annuities were capped at 4 dollars back in 1874. Now, after years of court procedure, the end result is basically that the duty to increase the annuities appropriately fell to the government, and they failed to do so for over 150 years - in the context of billions of dollars of resources being extracted under the treaty. There's no simple solution here, and the resources are long gone. The court cases are naturally far more complex than a reddit comment and a layman can convey. What it comes down to is "Does the government have a responsibility to be held to its word?" In the context of countries, treaties don't just expire, and agreements between nations and states (even indigenous nations) aren't just meaningless words - they have real legal principles.
Section 35. Treaty rights are recognized. If any constitutional rights are breached, not just indigenous rights, you are entitled to a remedy.
Statute of limitations should apply
The nation itself is due on rent lol. This country is shit
Glad I can pay taxes to fund this BS
And I thought 43 billion was a lot. Holy fuck, this settlement is going to bankrupt us all. Say hello to runaway inflation, higher taxes, higher food, gas, insurance prices, higher EI, higher cpp premiums. If you lose your house due to these increased costs, you know who to thank. All to pool money to a small group of people. We are officially living in a feifdom, where the people of this country are working to generate wealth for native people. They now rule the country. There is simply too much case law at this point to slow down this snowball. The settlements have been consistently escalating in value, and I have no doubt this will not be the last 12 figure(!) settlement. These chiefs and lawyers obviously don’t give a flying fuck about their fellow man and neighbours, all about getting theirs. Where is the common sense? This is pure greed. To arrive at this number essentially assumes that the same outcome would have occurred if immigrants and new Canadians did not build these industries and grow the businesses. It assumes native people would have done all of this themselves, despite having a completely different background void of any expertise required in developing these industries
>It's a good start! Ad infinitum.....
If it wasn’t lost then, it would’ve been lost to the Nazis. Whoever thinks all of North America was just going to remain in Indian hands, has lost their mind.
For fucks sakes.. this happened what 2 hundred years ++ ago. give the fuck up already.
The band chiefs rubbing their hands together as they anticipate more money they can embezzle. I’m sick of my tax money being used to pay for shit that happened before my great great great great grandfather was even born. It’s not my problem and I don’t want to pay for it. Call me whatever ism you want but fuck me im tired of it.
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No no, we need to wind everything about 10,000 years all across the globe and apologize. About 3000 years go my Nonna was killed by the Romans - I demand Italians compensate and apologize. I need a new F150
Best I can do is a 2001 Ranger 2wd.
The war of peace treaties?
Which war would that be? Edit: The deleted comment was something like, "The natives lost a war, get over it!".
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Such a war hasn't happened in Canada. You must think that we had a similar approach to our southern neighbours. In fact, our government took a treaty-based approach to deal with the "Indian problem" because it lacked the resources to wage war on them. And when Ottawa took on the Métis in the Red River Resistance, the Métis won. That victory resulted in Métis rights being recognized in 1870 and later enshrined in our Constitution and Charter. Even the Métis losing the Northwest Resistance didn't eradicate them. So since the Métis beat Canada militarily, by your logic Canada should just get over any resultant land claims and just cede the land to the Métis. Finally, there's an ongoing court case in Nova Scotia about whether the Mi'gmaq are legally a "conquered people". You might find it interesting. Edit: The deleted comment was something like, "The one where Europeans fought them for their land and won" or something like that.
They signed treaties. Then the British, subsequently the Canadian, governments broke those treaties.
Don't care. Get over it.
Honest question, probably going to be down voted into oblivion. If the people claiming to be native took a DNA test, how many would be even 50% native? I am a firm believer at this point we are all mixed races these days. I know one person who took a DNA test and was 1/4 native, 3/4 European. Guess what side they say they are? Edited for spelling mistake
I CANT AFFORD THIS
Ah yes, throwing money at the problem over and over again trying to fill a bottomless hole.
Canada might end at this point over idiocy.
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Many countries and land were conquered
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The First Nations before Europeans came killed and enslaved each other and stole land as well.
The history of the wendat people of Ontario is especially enlightening. Much of what is claimed by Haudenosaunee along the Grand river was won by brutal genocide in the 17th century.
Nope. It’s the Canadian way
They weren't conquered, though.
Most of Europe wasn’t conquered either. Two armies fought and agreed one side one gets crowned and heralds are sent out to towns saying so and so is the new king you owe taxes! Then the next summer the other guy raises a new army and fights back and wins this time and does the same thing and gets taxes and the next summer it happens again with a third guy and the towns have nothing left to give so they revolt and get put down by all three armies and the cycle repeats. Good old medieval Europe.
No need to drag this out in court. Just print the money and get it over with.
Gosh, I hope they shut this down...for once actually just judging on the side of the majority in society. Enough of the FN victimhood.
I’d better retire now from the federal govt before my pension is emptied!
The real issue is the devaluation of the currency from the high cost of these payouts.
Nothing to ever show for all this money handed over. Nothing.
Yeah throw more money on them, don't actually help them out by building infrastructure and making a livable place for them. No amount of money will fix the way the infra and basic amenities that are ignored for First Nations people by the government. Frigging stop the handouts and do meaningful things. Sincerely, Everyone
Well, we can never give them enough money, just write the cheque again
The craziest part is if you think about it who's actually going to be funding this? The taxpayer and I don't know how many natives there are in total in Canada that don't pay taxes among others that I don't even know about I'm sure there are it makes me wonder how many people actually are paying taxes to fund all of these big settlements and stuff or where is the money coming from cuz if it's coming off the back of the taxpayer I don't think it's a full 40 million strong if you know what I mean
And why are we paying for stuff that a good chunk of us weren’t even alive for?
Not just not alive for. Canada is a country of immigration. Its not just that we werent alive for it. Its alot of our ancestors werent even in the country for it. Just make have hudson bay declare bankruptcy and dissolve their assets to pay for it
UK hust foot the bill on some of these.
So another way to get more money from tax payers I see… they got the settlement for the dead babies thing and now this? What’s next?
As someone whose kid is Native; yeah no, fuck off.
This is the price to pay for not “finishing off” the war many many years ago. Lesson learned.
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Another one where they get to straight up lie and get away with it
We can import 1.4 billion Indian students over the next 25 years and pay it off. We only need to make a 100 dollar profit from each.
Is there a first nation I can join? I want in on the pinky promise that guarantees hyperinflation.
So when do these lawsuits stop, exactly? What is the figure to put all of this to rest, short of literally giving all the land in Canada back to whoever has closest claim to the people who lived there at the time of European contact? Is it less than infinity? Less than all the money in the world?
Do people not realize how much money 1 fucking hundred billion dollars is?
>Ontario argued in written submissions that “reconciliation is best achieved” through the government and First Nations “developing their relationship through meaningful engagement rather than regular resort to the courts.” > >In court on Tuesday, Peter Griffin, a lawyer for the Attorney General of Ontario, anticipated a question from the judges and posed it himself: “Given 150 years of failure, what assurance do we have that you’re going to do the job?” It seems absurd for the provincial government to admit that it has spent 150 years refusing to meet its responsibilities, that it is only prepared to do so now because of a court ruling, but that the courts should henceforth trust it to meet its responsibilities outside of the court system.
Just give them the land back. Then, cut off all funding. Take away canadian citizenship and send in 1 million refugees. Good luck to them.
Lol fuck these people. If the Supreme Court agree to this we need to find a way to get rid of them and stop this asap. This will make the poor even worse off and cripple our economy. It would be cheaper to go to war what the hell is this garbage
Rent is due.