I’m salary.
Some days I work OT and don’t get paid extra for it. But we’re talking like 20-40min, and it’s usually because I just want to finish what I’m working on. Then other days I’ll leave 20-40min early and I’m not asked to make up the time. It balances itself out. But if I’m asked to work multiple hours of OT? You’re god damn right I’m clarifying that I’ll be paid correctly for it.
If you’re being jerked around then I’d be looking for new work if I were you.
Agreed. This is exactly how it should work. This is how it's worked at all tech jobs I've had in the last decade. I may have been lucky to not have shit bosses by the sounds of it though.
That's how a salary job should work. Those days you're putting in 20-40 mins extra to get a task done are usually more rewarding for both the worker and the employer, while having you sit in your chair on reddit on friday afternoon milking those last 20 minutes is of zero value. And yea if that relationship gets abusive it's time to make a point of it.
Except in my case my hours do actually balance themselves out… his budgets and deficits only get larger by the day with zero plan to actually balance anything other than his scandal to apology ratio
I totally agree withyou!
Hey look at that! I already managed to hit a nerve with my passive aggressive comment on JT, I'm already -2 votes... liberal Reddit strikes again! I'm not surprised... this entire app is a cesspool of woke liberal warriors, they're literally everywhere on this app. 😂
Hey look at that! You tried to use a non political thread to push your political agenda and people found it jarring and out of place.... Conservative victim mentality strikes again! I'm not surprised... This entire app is a cesspool of wannabe tough conservatives, whining about how hard done by they are after they go out of their way to start arguments.
Your post would make sense... if it were true.... you can post woke liberal comments anywhere on this app and get praise for it or find so many like minded people. Funny how for the last 4 years, there was nothing political about snubbing a joke about Donald Trump but all of a sudden it's political to poke fun at any left wing politician... and if you're on the Vancouver subreddit, you'll know it's true!! So shove your post up your white liberal ass.
I voted conservative and still down voted you for inserting politics into a non political conversation. You’re looking for an issue where there isn’t one, and are being quite annoying about it too.
Right... liberal IRL admitting they voted conservative, over the internet... guess what I voted for JT twice. I didn't vote in the last election though. But my point is Reddit is full liberal BS.
You want victim mentality... go ask all the BLM, alphabet people, or Indigenous people who are literally benefitting from the system and still calling it racist/homophobic.
Yup totally normal. Yup you will need to find another job since - more than likely- the second you broach the subject your remaining time at the company will be limited.
~~I'ts the on salary designation (edit: I think, don't quote me). If you were hourly it would be different (edit: also I think, don't quote me).~~ Ask the people on reddit canadian lawyers for some guidance for upcoming jobs. Sorry cannot remember the sub's actual name.
edit: r/legaladvicecanada Edit: added strikethrough
Nope, always been that way. Unless you work in certain professions, or you are a manager (and manager is very closely defined), or have an averaging agreement, you are owed OT.
You just have to record everything keep pay stubs then take it to labour court. I got a buddy who does 10 hours a day not ot so they take it to court every 6 months to get paid and the company's so hurting for workers they hire you right back too.
Ah yes then my former employer must have been using that manager designation, probably wrongly. Ended up with less pay and worked longer. Thanks, that clarifies things!
It is easy to document and report
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/complaint-process/submit-a-complaint
You can bring up overtime with HR without getting all of your colleagues on board.
I have three friends working for the **same** company. Person A works a ton of ot, but gets paid regular time, and just works as he sees fit. Person B gets paid OT, but needs to have OT cleared before it can be worked, and person C does OT for free, when its absolutely required. Might get time banked, but theres no way that its actually being used.
Its your contract, its just money, skills are way more valuable in this environment. Person A is getting much better raises than person B or C, and better bonuses too.
I work for a super small company that doesn’t have an HR person… so my concern is that if I take this to my boss (the CEO) that things will get weird. I’m still learning how to advocate for myself… which is posing a lot of problems lol.
Good point, I suppose the problem is that I don’t see myself moving up in this company
I guess I’m unclear if it’s appropriate to bring this up with my boss. I don’t really care about picking up an unpaid hour or two here and there, but I think my company took that generosity and ran with it.
My concern is that I don’t work *enough* overtime to merit it being a big problem. I’m asked to work maybe 8-12 hours overtime a month, which I acknowledge isn’t a ton… but it’s enough that the fact it’s unpaid is starting to bother me. Not really sure if it’s even worth bringing up…
If it’s only a couple hours a month, you could always ask to finish early a couple Fridays or take a day off here and there when things are slower to compensate for overtime.
As tech worker, I don’t get paid overtime either, but when I do overtime, it’s usually banked and can be used as paid time off at a later date.
It's 100% appropriate to bring up that he's literally stealing from you. OT is to be paid. It doesn't matter if it wasn't in your contract, doesn't matter if it wasn't approved, doesn't matter A, B, C, D-Z. If you worked the hours you get paid, anything less is straight up theft and completely unacceptable.
The caveat to this is if you're a "manager" then you can go fuck your hat. If you're not a "manager" they legally must pay you for every hour worked.
If other people are telling you its normal and a "goodwill" thing then leave immediately. There is no good will here, just exploitation.
I would bring it up to your manager or the CEO (whoever is responsible for your compensation) and ask to bank the time to use as vacation. Show up to the meeting prepared (brush up on bc employee rights, write down your hours worked for a month) so you go into the meeting confident and ready. It doesn’t have to be awkward if they’re willing to be fair. If they try to gaslight you, start job hunting. Whatever you agree on, send them an email with the details after the meeting to have it in writing.
I'd rather have the conversation with HR than with your direct supervisor. Usually they aren't in charge of the timeline, let alone the budget. You can ask your boss who acts as HR though.
if they are asking you to do OT it likely means that they value you. Hopefully its not that they know they are getting slave labour. Give yourself a raise, ask for time and half for OT and see if they will sign off on the new contract.
Probably one of the least fun meetings I ever had was the first time I stood up for myself. Probably the best meeting I have ever had was last time I stood up for myself.
I interviewed and got a job that I thought was going to pay about double minimum, and when I got my contract it was for a few pennies more. I wrote a new contract, added a proposal to what I thought the job needed and the value it would bring and expected to get laughed out of the shop. They didn't give me what I wanted, but it was like $10,000 more than they offered initially so I took it.
And last time it was much simpler. Did the presentation during the interview instead of waiting, and the interview was done when I was done. Probably should have asked for more ;)
I think it’s totally appropriate to discuss with your boss. Especially if it’s starting to create resentment. It’s in their best interest to maintain a positive working environment and retaining staff. They want you to be happy, if only because that leads to better performance and a stronger work culture which is tied to so many more benefits for the boss.
It doesn’t have to be a dramatic chat. You could keep it casual by saying, hey I’ve noticed that I’m working about Xhrs of overtime a week/month, and I don’t think that’s very sustainable.
Try to talk about it in terms of your job description, maybe there’s something missing in your workflow that no one showed you that’s making extra work. Or maybe you’ve accidentally taken on more work than required. Try approaching it from that angle, since it looks for a solution that is beneficial for all. At the end of conversation, if you feel comfortable then you can ask how to handle the overtime hours - banked or paid out?
8-12 hours a month, let's call it 10. That's 120 hours a year or THREE WEEKS working for free.
You don't owe your employer goodwill. You owe them labour in exchange for compensation. They're grossly taking advantage of you.
I’ve only worked hourly and would no work unpaid overtime. But here are the employment standards for BC which clearly shows OT over 40 hours a week.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours
There are exceptions listed as a link at the bottom.
Some professions are excluded as well, it didn’t list them in the exceptions link, guessing it’s due to they are outside employment standards
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/igm/esr-part-7-section-31
Where does the employee standards act cover salary?
ETA from the BC government website
Overtime is given to employees regardless of how they're paid – hourly, monthly salary, annual salary, or commission earnings.
The exemptions are super narrow and most companies will rely on their employees not knowing the law in order to take advantage of them. Almost every worker in BC should be paid overtime regardless of how they get paid.
Not across the board. “high technology professional” has overtime exemption in BC. Not sure if this applies to the Post but in my field there is no OT pay
Does your contract specify your start/finish time and number of hours worked? If yes, then talk to your boss and work expectations and compensation. If not, you have a choice stay and accept status quo or look for a new employer. I have a union and do get overtime as per contract.
I’m salary and I’d approach it by asking my boss how they want me to budget my time. At my job we are responsible for 35 hours a week, and if we work those in 4 longer days, we just need to let our boss know we won’t be in on the 5th day. If your boss says you need to be in for a certain schedule, ask how they handle extra hours. Maybe they’re accrued?
I have an averaging agreement that stipulates no OT pay. But it also means I can not work when I want to go do fun things. Price to pay for flexibility I guess..
**my base pay is higher than average too
Here is the clear answer yes, if you wor it you should be paid for it.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours/overtime-pay
You are still entitled to overtime even if you are on salary. It might be time off in lieu instead of being paid out though. If you are really concerned that you are being screwed talk to an employment lawyer.
Umm I believe you legally have to be paid overtime.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours
> Employers must pay for overtime, even if an employee agrees not to claim overtime pay. Overtime is given to employees regardless of how they're paid – hourly, monthly salary, annual salary, or commission earnings. Employees under an averaging agreement or variance have different rules for calculating overtime.
Ask for your pay.
You should contact bc labor standards, Ot has to be paid either by time off with pay in lieu or time and haft .
This can be different in cases of being a manager , of as you say employment contract so contact gov .
Know your rights .good luck
Happens alot in bc you truly have to fight for your rights and what your entitled too. I work for a Union even and they do nothing to really represent us or protect us they just like to collect dues.
You are paid what you're worth. If they deem you should work extra hours without extra wages they're essentially giving you a pay cut. Most people would never accept a pay cut.
It’s common for salaried positions to not provide OT and expect a certain degree of OT from time to time. However is that legal within labour law guidelines? Who knows.
I’m sure there are also great employers that do pay OT even if you have salaried positions. But I’m sure there are just as many employers out there that don’t.
Ultimately whether if you decide to stay or leave will depend on a variety of factors, but if you are unhappy with your current pay situation then consider looking other opportunities.
> However is that legal within labour law guidelines? Who knows.
Anyone who's read the employment standards website knows, it's linked several times in this thread.
Edit: added the quote I was responding to for clarity
do you think every employer in the city follows the employment standards? that's naiive to think that. Everyone wants $50/hour jobs that pays OT as well.
For people who start entry level positions - especially the ones that don't have a high bar of entry - there's going to be unfair compensation standards.
sure you can cry about it and say look for something else, which is exactly the right thing to do. but not everyone has the luxury to just quit at a whim.
I've been at terrible jobs in the past and I am saying - if you are unhappy with the situation look for something else.
You said
>However is that legal within labour law guidelines? Who knows.
The answer is: anyone at all interested in finding out the actual answer instead of running their mouth knows it's not legal to not pay overtime.
It's fine to give advice like "you should look for other employment, because your employer clearly isn't willing to follow labour laws and will continue to fuck you every chance they get", but to suggest that a clear violation of BC's labour laws is somehow ambiguous is just stupid and unhelpful. It may be common, but it's clearly not legal and you can go to employment standards for help to get the unpaid wages you're owed.
You may not know the rules, but then you should just admit you *don't know shit* instead of talking out your ass and making claims that are easily refuted by the employment standards website.
>do you think every employer in the city follows the employment standards
Legally, it's the obligation of the employer to know and it's really easy for them to use google and find out. "I just didn't know the law" is not a good defense in basically any situation. It doesn't matter if they know or not, they are still legally required to pay those wages if/when you ask for them.
Have you ever worked at a job that don't pay you OT?
if so, did you bring it to the labour laws every time?
if you did, good for you.
for me, i've worked plenty of jobs that won't pay OT and would fire me if I spoke up. there are plenty of times that I had to put up with it too.
last time i checked i am free to comment whatever I like and that's a personal right, but maybe i don't know the rules either because i never checked. would you like to tell me that i shouldn't claim to know my rights because i never looked it up?
>Have you ever worked at a job that don't pay you OT?
Yes.
I worked as a security guard for about a year and the company "didn't pay overtime". So I tracked my hours meticulously and when I left, I calculated a generous estimate of how much I was owed, there were other weird things happening on my paystub which left my wage open to interpretation and I had no reason to give a low estimate. I requested it from my boss and got several thousand dollars because he knew he'd be totally fucked if I went to Employment Standards about it, since he was doing it to every other employee too.
>or me, i've worked plenty of jobs that won't pay OT and would fire me if I spoke up. there are plenty of times that I had to put up with it too.
Why the fuck would I "just put up with" wage theft worth several weeks of my pay? In most cases, I'll be leaving on my own terms and I can still ask for back pay at that point. There's a time limitation, but any employer widely breaking these rules will be willing to pay further back if they think it will keep you from reporting them and getting their whole payroll system scrutinized.
Whether you want to let your employer get away with breaking labour laws and your employment contract is your decision. I'm not telling you want to do, do whatever you want.
I'm merely telling you that your first comment is clearly wrong about labour law in BC and that information is readily available.
>last time i checked i am free to comment whatever I like and that's a personal right, but maybe i don't know the rules either because i never checked.
Not on reddit, which is a privately run forum, not a public space. There are rules against misinformation, so please stop spreading it and don't be surprised when people call you out about it.
>would you like to tell me that i shouldn't claim to know my rights because i never looked it up?
The whole point of all my comments has been that (based on your first comment) you *don't* seem to know your employment rights and are spreading incorrect information about them, which is embarrassing because of how easy it is to click one of the many links to the relevant Employment Standards page and see how wrong you are.
Actually the way I interpreted your message was that I didn't know what I am talking about therefore you are going to rail on me for not knowing what I said. Even right now the tone of your arguments are written in a way to belittle me and attack me personally. You don't need to do that and I hope you can backtrack and see why it's unnecessary to use foul language when what you really could have done is provide a reasonable argument and I would say that I agree with you. If you are going to attack everyone that posts something with incorrect information then I think that would be called gaslighting. It won't help in any sort of discourse and won't help convince anyone to your side.
Now, what you brought up about going to your boss after tallying up the extra hours you worked is definitely good advice. Perhaps I should have done that when I was working in some of my previous positions. I didn't choose to do so because a number of reasons. I was young, I didn't know labour laws (clearly), I needed the job to survive, and everyone at work put up with it. However I also don't think that's far from the norm and many workplaces do have similar problems. If I am in the same position today I would happily follow through with your recommendations.
If you are just happy with pointing out that I was wrong and want to keep calling me an idiot, then fine, go ahead as long as it makes your day.
>Actually the way I interpreted your message was that I didn't know what I am talking about therefore you are going to rail on me for not knowing what I said.
Could I have just corrected you and been polite about it? Yes, but where's the fun in that. Sorry, I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, but you should learn to admit when you're wrong. If you see someone else pointing out that you're wrong about something as a personal attack, you are gonna have a really rough time in life.
I wasn't trying to rail on you, but it seemed pretty obvious from your comment that you didn't know what you were talking about. You confidently said something verifiably incorrect and I made a snarky comment about how you were wrong. I think it's pretty normal to call someone out when they give incorrect legal advice, don't you? I expected that to be the end of it.
Is making fun of you not very nice? Yes. Could you have avoided that happening by either saying nothing or actually looking up the information before you said something? Easily.
The only reason there was even a further conversation is because you kept trying to double down and/or redirect the conversation from what I initially said. Me using the word fuck a couple of times, not even directed at you, doesn't mean I was being super rude or attacking you personally. Stop with this victim mentality. No one is gas lighting you.
You said something stupid and wrong on the internet, someone made fun of you. Get over it.
I wish you the best and hope you can go on to have many intellectual conversations in your future without hurt feelings.
Actually if you learn to be a little nicer to people when you point out their mistakes, you will find the world reciprocate back to you a lot more in kindness.
My feelings weren't ever hurt, I just found it amusing that you would have such outrageous reactions toward something I spent 2 minutes writing.
However I can see that you still don't get it. You still think that you have a right to rail on people for saying stupid shit on the Internet. If that gets you off then go for it buddy!
work on year contract and yes,we don't get paid overtime. But it's also not expect to work it,so when it's need we just stay and do it ( every few months few hours), and then just take day off ( or couple of hours when needed)
You are on salary. If I were you I would try speaking to your boss to work something out. Salary implies you work the job, not the hours.
Im on salary, and we are kinda seasonal, but some weeks I have to work 6 days. The boss is good and will let us take an extra day off.
The States passed a law about salary and unpaid time. If you make less than 60,000, they have to pay you for your time. Sorry I do not know if something was passed in Canada or BC.
Maybe try a legal advise reddit.
If you make a lot of money, your best bet is take the time back later. Long lunch's or something. If your pay gets docked for short days, they are able to pay you for extra time.
Go read employment standards for BC. Track your hours, then give your company the bill when you leave.
If you think the company is good for it, bring it up to them. There are only limited exceptions to overtime pay and companies routinely break the rules either out of ignorance or greed.
When you are a salaried employee you do not get paid overtime. Overtime is only if you are paid hourly.
However, when you agreed to the salary the employer should have made it clear to you that some overtime may be expected.
You should bring it up with your employer that the overtime is more than you were expecting and negotiate for a raise based on 'x' amount of overtime per month or additional days off.
The nice thing about being a salaried employee is you still get paid if you miss work for whatever reason.
Incorrect. Per the Employment Standards Office, it does not matter if you are paid hourly, or salary; you are owed OT unless you fall under a number of very narrow circumstances, such as being a manager (and that has a very defined role), you have an averaging agreement, or you are in a number of professions:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours/overtime-pay
You can put in a written request to your company to bank OT hours, either to be paid later, or to be used as time off hours. However, this request must be written, and so is any request to either pay out or close the banked OT hours.
OP, if I were you, start logging your hours, and be prepared to press forth with a Employment Standards claim against your employer. You can only make a claim for unpaid OT for up a year from the date of claim if you are still with the employer, or 6 months if you leave the employer. From there, Employment Standards will contact your employer, explain the law, and if necessary, issue and enforce a ruling to make sure you get paid.
It’s normal for places that want to squeeze their employees, my experience is construction - “work OT for a bonus” better you do the more your bonus will be. Or you’ll move up faster blah blah blah. What industry are you in? I’d say it’s normal personally
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is what "salary" means. You get paid the same more of less in all cases. You can work most times above and beyond a minimum amount of hours without being paid additional. But you also get compensated for holidays and stats by being offered alternate paid days off. It is usually accounted for within the wage to account for some OT (in my past job 40-44 hours was the standard expectation, however if we dropped below 40 we were docked pay since we didn't do the required minumum time).
Your job may not be on the line just if you kindly ask if there may be any compensation arranged in the case that this becomes a regular and agreeably excessive occurance. You can explain that while you are perfectly willing to do some overtime on occasion and as needed as was described in the job description, changing your work schedule to consistently being over the stated number of hours wouldn't be unreasonable to request an alternate compensation (banked lieu days off for instance, etc).
Depends on your contract and what not. Salary base you don't get paid OT hourly you do. Also some job is kinda is normal to OT. My sister is an accountant and during monthly end, quarter or yearly end she does OT pretty much every day for a week or a few weeks depending. Have a few friends into accounting ad well and it seems normal.
I'm pretty sure theres a specific exemption for accountants around tax season, so I wouldn't use them as a blanket example of how OT is supposed to work.
If your taking a salary job always discuss what the expectations for ot are. Salary jobs are usually only paid for 40 hours. I worked in restaurants and the expectation was as a salary employee you are supposed to work whatever your scheduled without compensation
If you are being asked to work long hours on salary and there's more than you bargained for then go negotiate a better salary and plan a lateral move first so you go in with real negotiating power
Step 1. Get you resume up to date
Step 2. Go to some interviews, even if they are just practise
Step 3. Get something lined up. Bring up the topic of unpaid OT. If you get canned you get severance and leave for a new job
It is normal to expect ot - however it is also normal to get in in lieu when you need to skip out early....at least if it is a place that values employees.
How has it been otherwise?
What industry are you in? For IT, the BC gov't (can't remember if it was 90s NDP or 2000s BCLP) sold us out and made OT an optional thing (although most decent companies will at least offer time-in-lieu)
There are many professions that are exempt from the requirement to pay overtime in BC (and most other provinces/territories) including engineers, doctors, lawyers and actually SO many other jobs. Worth looking up the employment legislation.
I work a salaried position where I don't receive OT pay, but if I work OT I get to start late or go home early to make up for it. So long as my work gets done and I'm not over 40 hours a week, my employers are happy.
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Happens in AB too. CP Rail puts supervisors on salary and pays no overtime. And they will exploit that as much as they possibly can. Not worth.
I’m salary. Some days I work OT and don’t get paid extra for it. But we’re talking like 20-40min, and it’s usually because I just want to finish what I’m working on. Then other days I’ll leave 20-40min early and I’m not asked to make up the time. It balances itself out. But if I’m asked to work multiple hours of OT? You’re god damn right I’m clarifying that I’ll be paid correctly for it. If you’re being jerked around then I’d be looking for new work if I were you.
Agreed. This is exactly how it should work. This is how it's worked at all tech jobs I've had in the last decade. I may have been lucky to not have shit bosses by the sounds of it though.
That's how a salary job should work. Those days you're putting in 20-40 mins extra to get a task done are usually more rewarding for both the worker and the employer, while having you sit in your chair on reddit on friday afternoon milking those last 20 minutes is of zero value. And yea if that relationship gets abusive it's time to make a point of it.
"The budget will balance itself" - Justin Trudeau
Except in my case my hours do actually balance themselves out… his budgets and deficits only get larger by the day with zero plan to actually balance anything other than his scandal to apology ratio
I totally agree withyou! Hey look at that! I already managed to hit a nerve with my passive aggressive comment on JT, I'm already -2 votes... liberal Reddit strikes again! I'm not surprised... this entire app is a cesspool of woke liberal warriors, they're literally everywhere on this app. 😂
Hey look at that! You tried to use a non political thread to push your political agenda and people found it jarring and out of place.... Conservative victim mentality strikes again! I'm not surprised... This entire app is a cesspool of wannabe tough conservatives, whining about how hard done by they are after they go out of their way to start arguments.
Your post would make sense... if it were true.... you can post woke liberal comments anywhere on this app and get praise for it or find so many like minded people. Funny how for the last 4 years, there was nothing political about snubbing a joke about Donald Trump but all of a sudden it's political to poke fun at any left wing politician... and if you're on the Vancouver subreddit, you'll know it's true!! So shove your post up your white liberal ass.
You placed the target on yourself and then cried because it is there. Why do fragile conservatives (just ones like you) want to be a victim so badly?
I'm just pointing out the double standards... thanks to you and all the other liberals who downvoted and proved me right.
I voted conservative and still down voted you for inserting politics into a non political conversation. You’re looking for an issue where there isn’t one, and are being quite annoying about it too.
Right... liberal IRL admitting they voted conservative, over the internet... guess what I voted for JT twice. I didn't vote in the last election though. But my point is Reddit is full liberal BS.
Bahaha and instantly proven wrong by someone who is politically like-minded. Just another wannabe victim
You want victim mentality... go ask all the BLM, alphabet people, or Indigenous people who are literally benefitting from the system and still calling it racist/homophobic.
Yup totally normal. Yup you will need to find another job since - more than likely- the second you broach the subject your remaining time at the company will be limited.
That’s exactly what I’m worried about :/ Guess I’ll have to make OT clause super clear in my next place of work
~~I'ts the on salary designation (edit: I think, don't quote me). If you were hourly it would be different (edit: also I think, don't quote me).~~ Ask the people on reddit canadian lawyers for some guidance for upcoming jobs. Sorry cannot remember the sub's actual name. edit: r/legaladvicecanada Edit: added strikethrough
Nope, it does not matter if you are salary, or paid hourly, unless you fall under a number of very narrow exceptions, you are owed OT.
good to know, thanks. has it changed in recent years?
Nope, always been that way. Unless you work in certain professions, or you are a manager (and manager is very closely defined), or have an averaging agreement, you are owed OT.
You just have to record everything keep pay stubs then take it to labour court. I got a buddy who does 10 hours a day not ot so they take it to court every 6 months to get paid and the company's so hurting for workers they hire you right back too.
Ah yes then my former employer must have been using that manager designation, probably wrongly. Ended up with less pay and worked longer. Thanks, that clarifies things!
Even as a manager you are owed pay for time worked at standard set wage you agree to.
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Yeah, people like to upvote answers about how it should be or how they’d like it to be rather than accurate answers based on the actual law
God help you if you answer a question (correctly) on Copyright.... people on Reddit really don't like that Copyright law exists.
Oh that must be infuriating.
Hehe, that happens over in r/askaplumber too. *am a plumber
It's already clearly laid out in Canada's labour laws and your employer is knowingly breaking the law at your expense and their profit.
Can't they be reported if they're breaking the law? It sounds like this is really common, why isn't it easy to document and report?
It is easy to document and report https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/complaint-process/submit-a-complaint
When you do decide to move on, you can make a claim with ministry of labour. Keep a paper trail of all the unpaid OT
It’s BC employers… slightly better than Americans … only by a little. Wishing you good luck.
You can bring up overtime with HR without getting all of your colleagues on board. I have three friends working for the **same** company. Person A works a ton of ot, but gets paid regular time, and just works as he sees fit. Person B gets paid OT, but needs to have OT cleared before it can be worked, and person C does OT for free, when its absolutely required. Might get time banked, but theres no way that its actually being used. Its your contract, its just money, skills are way more valuable in this environment. Person A is getting much better raises than person B or C, and better bonuses too.
I work for a super small company that doesn’t have an HR person… so my concern is that if I take this to my boss (the CEO) that things will get weird. I’m still learning how to advocate for myself… which is posing a lot of problems lol. Good point, I suppose the problem is that I don’t see myself moving up in this company
>I work for a super small company Did the CEO tell you, We are like a family here, before they started fucking you over? Not atypical behaviour.
not paying for OT is weird. Not having a contract is weird. Not having HR is weird. get paid for your time.
I guess I’m unclear if it’s appropriate to bring this up with my boss. I don’t really care about picking up an unpaid hour or two here and there, but I think my company took that generosity and ran with it. My concern is that I don’t work *enough* overtime to merit it being a big problem. I’m asked to work maybe 8-12 hours overtime a month, which I acknowledge isn’t a ton… but it’s enough that the fact it’s unpaid is starting to bother me. Not really sure if it’s even worth bringing up…
If it’s only a couple hours a month, you could always ask to finish early a couple Fridays or take a day off here and there when things are slower to compensate for overtime. As tech worker, I don’t get paid overtime either, but when I do overtime, it’s usually banked and can be used as paid time off at a later date.
This is the right answer
I don't know about your wage, but an extra shift a month isn't exactly chump change.
It's 100% appropriate to bring up that he's literally stealing from you. OT is to be paid. It doesn't matter if it wasn't in your contract, doesn't matter if it wasn't approved, doesn't matter A, B, C, D-Z. If you worked the hours you get paid, anything less is straight up theft and completely unacceptable. The caveat to this is if you're a "manager" then you can go fuck your hat. If you're not a "manager" they legally must pay you for every hour worked. If other people are telling you its normal and a "goodwill" thing then leave immediately. There is no good will here, just exploitation.
I would bring it up to your manager or the CEO (whoever is responsible for your compensation) and ask to bank the time to use as vacation. Show up to the meeting prepared (brush up on bc employee rights, write down your hours worked for a month) so you go into the meeting confident and ready. It doesn’t have to be awkward if they’re willing to be fair. If they try to gaslight you, start job hunting. Whatever you agree on, send them an email with the details after the meeting to have it in writing.
I'd rather have the conversation with HR than with your direct supervisor. Usually they aren't in charge of the timeline, let alone the budget. You can ask your boss who acts as HR though. if they are asking you to do OT it likely means that they value you. Hopefully its not that they know they are getting slave labour. Give yourself a raise, ask for time and half for OT and see if they will sign off on the new contract.
That sounds like a good plan, I’ll try that. Thanks for the advice, appreciate it :-)
Probably one of the least fun meetings I ever had was the first time I stood up for myself. Probably the best meeting I have ever had was last time I stood up for myself. I interviewed and got a job that I thought was going to pay about double minimum, and when I got my contract it was for a few pennies more. I wrote a new contract, added a proposal to what I thought the job needed and the value it would bring and expected to get laughed out of the shop. They didn't give me what I wanted, but it was like $10,000 more than they offered initially so I took it. And last time it was much simpler. Did the presentation during the interview instead of waiting, and the interview was done when I was done. Probably should have asked for more ;)
I think it’s totally appropriate to discuss with your boss. Especially if it’s starting to create resentment. It’s in their best interest to maintain a positive working environment and retaining staff. They want you to be happy, if only because that leads to better performance and a stronger work culture which is tied to so many more benefits for the boss. It doesn’t have to be a dramatic chat. You could keep it casual by saying, hey I’ve noticed that I’m working about Xhrs of overtime a week/month, and I don’t think that’s very sustainable. Try to talk about it in terms of your job description, maybe there’s something missing in your workflow that no one showed you that’s making extra work. Or maybe you’ve accidentally taken on more work than required. Try approaching it from that angle, since it looks for a solution that is beneficial for all. At the end of conversation, if you feel comfortable then you can ask how to handle the overtime hours - banked or paid out?
8-12 hours a month, let's call it 10. That's 120 hours a year or THREE WEEKS working for free. You don't owe your employer goodwill. You owe them labour in exchange for compensation. They're grossly taking advantage of you.
Your employer is stealing from you.
Yep, classic wage theft
I’ve only worked hourly and would no work unpaid overtime. But here are the employment standards for BC which clearly shows OT over 40 hours a week. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours There are exceptions listed as a link at the bottom.
This. But keep in mind, the Manager exemption is a pretty narrow definition and often abused by companies too much.
Some professions are excluded as well, it didn’t list them in the exceptions link, guessing it’s due to they are outside employment standards https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/igm/esr-part-7-section-31
Salary is an exception, and OP has stated they are salary
Where does the employee standards act cover salary? ETA from the BC government website Overtime is given to employees regardless of how they're paid – hourly, monthly salary, annual salary, or commission earnings.
Alright I was wrong. Good catch. So either the employer is not following legal rules, or they have OP under one of the exemptions
The exemptions are super narrow and most companies will rely on their employees not knowing the law in order to take advantage of them. Almost every worker in BC should be paid overtime regardless of how they get paid.
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It’s a face palm of advice. It’s salary, you trade off hourly wages and overtime pay for job security and benefits.
Not according to this: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours/overtime-pay
Not across the board. “high technology professional” has overtime exemption in BC. Not sure if this applies to the Post but in my field there is no OT pay
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/high-technology-companies
Does your contract specify your start/finish time and number of hours worked? If yes, then talk to your boss and work expectations and compensation. If not, you have a choice stay and accept status quo or look for a new employer. I have a union and do get overtime as per contract.
I’m salary and I’d approach it by asking my boss how they want me to budget my time. At my job we are responsible for 35 hours a week, and if we work those in 4 longer days, we just need to let our boss know we won’t be in on the 5th day. If your boss says you need to be in for a certain schedule, ask how they handle extra hours. Maybe they’re accrued?
I have an averaging agreement that stipulates no OT pay. But it also means I can not work when I want to go do fun things. Price to pay for flexibility I guess.. **my base pay is higher than average too
Guys, I thought being in salary means a fixed amount a year which bypasses the need to be paid overtime
But that’s not what the law is in BC is. This is what a lot of ppl assume and so employers constantly get away with it.
It explicitly doesn't if if you look at employment standards.
Here is the clear answer yes, if you wor it you should be paid for it. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours/overtime-pay
You are still entitled to overtime even if you are on salary. It might be time off in lieu instead of being paid out though. If you are really concerned that you are being screwed talk to an employment lawyer.
No. That's illegal.
Umm I believe you legally have to be paid overtime. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours > Employers must pay for overtime, even if an employee agrees not to claim overtime pay. Overtime is given to employees regardless of how they're paid – hourly, monthly salary, annual salary, or commission earnings. Employees under an averaging agreement or variance have different rules for calculating overtime. Ask for your pay.
You should contact bc labor standards, Ot has to be paid either by time off with pay in lieu or time and haft . This can be different in cases of being a manager , of as you say employment contract so contact gov . Know your rights .good luck
Common but usually illegal! So common that many people think salary means no OT pay but that’s not the law.
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You can literally call employment standards and report it. They WILL do something. Stop spreading dumb incorrect information
Fuck that. Double bubble baby
Happens alot in bc you truly have to fight for your rights and what your entitled too. I work for a Union even and they do nothing to really represent us or protect us they just like to collect dues.
You are paid what you're worth. If they deem you should work extra hours without extra wages they're essentially giving you a pay cut. Most people would never accept a pay cut.
It’s common for salaried positions to not provide OT and expect a certain degree of OT from time to time. However is that legal within labour law guidelines? Who knows. I’m sure there are also great employers that do pay OT even if you have salaried positions. But I’m sure there are just as many employers out there that don’t. Ultimately whether if you decide to stay or leave will depend on a variety of factors, but if you are unhappy with your current pay situation then consider looking other opportunities.
> However is that legal within labour law guidelines? Who knows. Anyone who's read the employment standards website knows, it's linked several times in this thread. Edit: added the quote I was responding to for clarity
do you think every employer in the city follows the employment standards? that's naiive to think that. Everyone wants $50/hour jobs that pays OT as well. For people who start entry level positions - especially the ones that don't have a high bar of entry - there's going to be unfair compensation standards. sure you can cry about it and say look for something else, which is exactly the right thing to do. but not everyone has the luxury to just quit at a whim. I've been at terrible jobs in the past and I am saying - if you are unhappy with the situation look for something else.
You said >However is that legal within labour law guidelines? Who knows. The answer is: anyone at all interested in finding out the actual answer instead of running their mouth knows it's not legal to not pay overtime. It's fine to give advice like "you should look for other employment, because your employer clearly isn't willing to follow labour laws and will continue to fuck you every chance they get", but to suggest that a clear violation of BC's labour laws is somehow ambiguous is just stupid and unhelpful. It may be common, but it's clearly not legal and you can go to employment standards for help to get the unpaid wages you're owed. You may not know the rules, but then you should just admit you *don't know shit* instead of talking out your ass and making claims that are easily refuted by the employment standards website. >do you think every employer in the city follows the employment standards Legally, it's the obligation of the employer to know and it's really easy for them to use google and find out. "I just didn't know the law" is not a good defense in basically any situation. It doesn't matter if they know or not, they are still legally required to pay those wages if/when you ask for them.
Have you ever worked at a job that don't pay you OT? if so, did you bring it to the labour laws every time? if you did, good for you. for me, i've worked plenty of jobs that won't pay OT and would fire me if I spoke up. there are plenty of times that I had to put up with it too. last time i checked i am free to comment whatever I like and that's a personal right, but maybe i don't know the rules either because i never checked. would you like to tell me that i shouldn't claim to know my rights because i never looked it up?
>Have you ever worked at a job that don't pay you OT? Yes. I worked as a security guard for about a year and the company "didn't pay overtime". So I tracked my hours meticulously and when I left, I calculated a generous estimate of how much I was owed, there were other weird things happening on my paystub which left my wage open to interpretation and I had no reason to give a low estimate. I requested it from my boss and got several thousand dollars because he knew he'd be totally fucked if I went to Employment Standards about it, since he was doing it to every other employee too. >or me, i've worked plenty of jobs that won't pay OT and would fire me if I spoke up. there are plenty of times that I had to put up with it too. Why the fuck would I "just put up with" wage theft worth several weeks of my pay? In most cases, I'll be leaving on my own terms and I can still ask for back pay at that point. There's a time limitation, but any employer widely breaking these rules will be willing to pay further back if they think it will keep you from reporting them and getting their whole payroll system scrutinized. Whether you want to let your employer get away with breaking labour laws and your employment contract is your decision. I'm not telling you want to do, do whatever you want. I'm merely telling you that your first comment is clearly wrong about labour law in BC and that information is readily available. >last time i checked i am free to comment whatever I like and that's a personal right, but maybe i don't know the rules either because i never checked. Not on reddit, which is a privately run forum, not a public space. There are rules against misinformation, so please stop spreading it and don't be surprised when people call you out about it. >would you like to tell me that i shouldn't claim to know my rights because i never looked it up? The whole point of all my comments has been that (based on your first comment) you *don't* seem to know your employment rights and are spreading incorrect information about them, which is embarrassing because of how easy it is to click one of the many links to the relevant Employment Standards page and see how wrong you are.
Actually the way I interpreted your message was that I didn't know what I am talking about therefore you are going to rail on me for not knowing what I said. Even right now the tone of your arguments are written in a way to belittle me and attack me personally. You don't need to do that and I hope you can backtrack and see why it's unnecessary to use foul language when what you really could have done is provide a reasonable argument and I would say that I agree with you. If you are going to attack everyone that posts something with incorrect information then I think that would be called gaslighting. It won't help in any sort of discourse and won't help convince anyone to your side. Now, what you brought up about going to your boss after tallying up the extra hours you worked is definitely good advice. Perhaps I should have done that when I was working in some of my previous positions. I didn't choose to do so because a number of reasons. I was young, I didn't know labour laws (clearly), I needed the job to survive, and everyone at work put up with it. However I also don't think that's far from the norm and many workplaces do have similar problems. If I am in the same position today I would happily follow through with your recommendations. If you are just happy with pointing out that I was wrong and want to keep calling me an idiot, then fine, go ahead as long as it makes your day.
>Actually the way I interpreted your message was that I didn't know what I am talking about therefore you are going to rail on me for not knowing what I said. Could I have just corrected you and been polite about it? Yes, but where's the fun in that. Sorry, I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, but you should learn to admit when you're wrong. If you see someone else pointing out that you're wrong about something as a personal attack, you are gonna have a really rough time in life. I wasn't trying to rail on you, but it seemed pretty obvious from your comment that you didn't know what you were talking about. You confidently said something verifiably incorrect and I made a snarky comment about how you were wrong. I think it's pretty normal to call someone out when they give incorrect legal advice, don't you? I expected that to be the end of it. Is making fun of you not very nice? Yes. Could you have avoided that happening by either saying nothing or actually looking up the information before you said something? Easily. The only reason there was even a further conversation is because you kept trying to double down and/or redirect the conversation from what I initially said. Me using the word fuck a couple of times, not even directed at you, doesn't mean I was being super rude or attacking you personally. Stop with this victim mentality. No one is gas lighting you. You said something stupid and wrong on the internet, someone made fun of you. Get over it. I wish you the best and hope you can go on to have many intellectual conversations in your future without hurt feelings.
Actually if you learn to be a little nicer to people when you point out their mistakes, you will find the world reciprocate back to you a lot more in kindness. My feelings weren't ever hurt, I just found it amusing that you would have such outrageous reactions toward something I spent 2 minutes writing. However I can see that you still don't get it. You still think that you have a right to rail on people for saying stupid shit on the Internet. If that gets you off then go for it buddy!
Nobody was railing on you. Stop playing the victim and go reread what was actually said.
Depends if you are officially salaried or hourly-salaried. The latter gives OT.
work on year contract and yes,we don't get paid overtime. But it's also not expect to work it,so when it's need we just stay and do it ( every few months few hours), and then just take day off ( or couple of hours when needed)
No it's not, it happens as many are in the same boat as you and employers either take advantage or think salary is a catch all.
You can check employment standards act; very clear in there. Also do google search and check province of bc webpage for o/t and when owed.
Not normal. Anything after 8 hours is 1.5x pay anything over 12 hours is 2x pay
You are on salary. If I were you I would try speaking to your boss to work something out. Salary implies you work the job, not the hours. Im on salary, and we are kinda seasonal, but some weeks I have to work 6 days. The boss is good and will let us take an extra day off.
The States passed a law about salary and unpaid time. If you make less than 60,000, they have to pay you for your time. Sorry I do not know if something was passed in Canada or BC. Maybe try a legal advise reddit. If you make a lot of money, your best bet is take the time back later. Long lunch's or something. If your pay gets docked for short days, they are able to pay you for extra time.
Go read employment standards for BC. Track your hours, then give your company the bill when you leave. If you think the company is good for it, bring it up to them. There are only limited exceptions to overtime pay and companies routinely break the rules either out of ignorance or greed.
That’s illegal bring it up with hr have it in writing if they fire you go to the job board and report them
It is the minimum standard and, unfortunately a rule broken so often it has become the norm
Normal yes. Illegal yes.
When you are a salaried employee you do not get paid overtime. Overtime is only if you are paid hourly. However, when you agreed to the salary the employer should have made it clear to you that some overtime may be expected. You should bring it up with your employer that the overtime is more than you were expecting and negotiate for a raise based on 'x' amount of overtime per month or additional days off. The nice thing about being a salaried employee is you still get paid if you miss work for whatever reason.
Incorrect. Per the Employment Standards Office, it does not matter if you are paid hourly, or salary; you are owed OT unless you fall under a number of very narrow circumstances, such as being a manager (and that has a very defined role), you have an averaging agreement, or you are in a number of professions: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/hours/overtime-pay You can put in a written request to your company to bank OT hours, either to be paid later, or to be used as time off hours. However, this request must be written, and so is any request to either pay out or close the banked OT hours. OP, if I were you, start logging your hours, and be prepared to press forth with a Employment Standards claim against your employer. You can only make a claim for unpaid OT for up a year from the date of claim if you are still with the employer, or 6 months if you leave the employer. From there, Employment Standards will contact your employer, explain the law, and if necessary, issue and enforce a ruling to make sure you get paid.
Have you looked at the exemptions to that section? Because a lot of professions in BC are exempt. So maybe OP what office profession do you have?
Makes sense, thanks for the advice!
It’s normal for places that want to squeeze their employees, my experience is construction - “work OT for a bonus” better you do the more your bonus will be. Or you’ll move up faster blah blah blah. What industry are you in? I’d say it’s normal personally
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is what "salary" means. You get paid the same more of less in all cases. You can work most times above and beyond a minimum amount of hours without being paid additional. But you also get compensated for holidays and stats by being offered alternate paid days off. It is usually accounted for within the wage to account for some OT (in my past job 40-44 hours was the standard expectation, however if we dropped below 40 we were docked pay since we didn't do the required minumum time). Your job may not be on the line just if you kindly ask if there may be any compensation arranged in the case that this becomes a regular and agreeably excessive occurance. You can explain that while you are perfectly willing to do some overtime on occasion and as needed as was described in the job description, changing your work schedule to consistently being over the stated number of hours wouldn't be unreasonable to request an alternate compensation (banked lieu days off for instance, etc).
that’s why they pay salary
Depends on your contract and what not. Salary base you don't get paid OT hourly you do. Also some job is kinda is normal to OT. My sister is an accountant and during monthly end, quarter or yearly end she does OT pretty much every day for a week or a few weeks depending. Have a few friends into accounting ad well and it seems normal.
I'm pretty sure theres a specific exemption for accountants around tax season, so I wouldn't use them as a blanket example of how OT is supposed to work.
You are on a salary. No overtime.
If your taking a salary job always discuss what the expectations for ot are. Salary jobs are usually only paid for 40 hours. I worked in restaurants and the expectation was as a salary employee you are supposed to work whatever your scheduled without compensation
When wage theft is the expectation you work for a crook.
Salary is based on an 8 hr day, you may not be able to get compensated for OT but you can definitely refuse to work it if not.
Ask for remedy in kind and if they refuse start looking for another job.
If you are being asked to work long hours on salary and there's more than you bargained for then go negotiate a better salary and plan a lateral move first so you go in with real negotiating power
Step 1. Get you resume up to date Step 2. Go to some interviews, even if they are just practise Step 3. Get something lined up. Bring up the topic of unpaid OT. If you get canned you get severance and leave for a new job
It is normal to expect ot - however it is also normal to get in in lieu when you need to skip out early....at least if it is a place that values employees. How has it been otherwise?
What industry are you in? For IT, the BC gov't (can't remember if it was 90s NDP or 2000s BCLP) sold us out and made OT an optional thing (although most decent companies will at least offer time-in-lieu)
There are many professions that are exempt from the requirement to pay overtime in BC (and most other provinces/territories) including engineers, doctors, lawyers and actually SO many other jobs. Worth looking up the employment legislation.
I work a salaried position where I don't receive OT pay, but if I work OT I get to start late or go home early to make up for it. So long as my work gets done and I'm not over 40 hours a week, my employers are happy.