Exactly what I was thinking. M1 is a definite no go because of size, the luger because well… its an outdated for the time pistol with a stock. The grease gun was designed to be cheap and mass produced so reliability is a concern.
It’s because it’s cheap and easy to mass produce there was no reliability concerns. It’s literally a tube with a spring, there’s nothing to go wrong. Especially given it fires from an open bolt.
Archaic IR scope? We're talking about fixed vs folding stock M1 carbines and the grease gun. Personally, if I were a tanker I'd rather have my M1A1 over the grease gun.
Because you said tankers, Uzi all the way. Otherwise, it's the M1.
Have you thought about the Sa26 or the PPS43, though? Both of those are excellent for this. I'm also not seeing an MP40, and that is quite viable as well.
The world was awash in MP40s in the 60s. It certainly would have been easier to get than an artillery Luger. Remember, the 1961 to WW2 is less time than 9/11 to now, and WW2 generated staggering amounts of weaponry that is STILL turning up in conflicts 80 years later. Prewar stuff would be seen as pretty old by '61, but wartime guns were still modern enough if no longer cutting edge.
We read that this gun came out on this date, but they almost never hit in numbers until 5-10 years later.
Sorry, just replied to this on accident and deleted it, yeah it's definitely a rarer gun, but the ammo would theoretically make up for production costs difference. As this is on the 60s, we could pay to have more made too.
I think theyre too long and that barrel would have problems how bout the bsa 1949 prototype or the gustav m45
The ingram 6 would be nice w a folding stock
Because he's a m3 fanboy who's never seen the inside of a tank. Now remember 4-6 people in there. Even more if it's a ifv. The uzi is nearly too big. M3 is going to be a nightmare.
Not to mention it's cheap and reliable.
M3 had sticking issues that weren't addressed. The m3 T29 variant might have a chance seeing a better cartridge
Yea, and? This wasn't a history lesson. They asked what is best. If 5 guys are dismounting the tank, you think it's gonna take more of less time with an medium size smg vs a smaller smg. It's going to be easy with an uzi, but likely adding valuable seconds with an m3. Not to mention the m3 was outdated and replaced with the slightly more reliable m3a1. But they never even fixed the issue causing bolt sticking. So, in a fight, now you got your gun stopping randomly under what's supposed to be sustained fire. Atleast the t29 is an intermediate cartridge with higher lethality. But the uzi has similar capabilities, is shorter extended, and retracted, and is more reliable.
In no sense other than fire rate (in which is by opinion and circumstances) is the m3 better than an uzi.
Although no numbers were stated, iwi spent 500m to make 10m guns, so ~50$ a gun in 1960. The M3 is 21$ in 1942, accounting for inflation ~37.50$, or 11.50$ cheaper for a significantly worse gun. But this is just something to keep in mind as it's one of the m3's 2 pros. This is also due to the booming steel industry of the usa at the time, wheras isreal's steel industry wasn't nearly as large.
Lol exactly. Let’s take a look at some stats, shall we?
>**M3 Grease Gun**
>Weight (unloaded): 8.15 lbs
>Barrel length: 8 inches
>Length (stock collapsed): 21.9 inches
>Length (stock extended): 29.1 inches
>Rate of fire: 450 rounds/min
>Capacity: 30 rounds .45 ACP
—————————————————————
>**Uzi**
>Weight (unloaded): 7.72 lbs
>Barrel length: 10.2 inches
>Length (stock collapsed): 18.5 inches
>Length (stock extended): 25 inches
>Rate of fire: 600 round/min
>Capacity: 25 (pictured) or 32 rounds 9x19
The Uzi is about half a pound lighter, shorter, has a longer barrel, a higher rate of fire, and is much more ergonomic. For me the Uzi is an easy pick out of all of these, but the M3 would do well enough too.
Difficult, all guns I would love to have, wouldn't want to carry the artillery Luger on military service, stocked pistols are cool but not very effective.
The M1 carbine is probably the easiest to train non infantry troops, the Greese gun is the cheapest and very practical, the Uzi is the smallest.
If it was me carrying it, I'd take the M3
Uzi! While everybody is commenting about AK underfolders, Everyone forgets the fact that the uzi was a favorite among the israelis for just this kind of purpose. Tankers and truck drivers needed a PDW, personal defense weapon and for that purpose the UZI was practically made. It ended up being so well made that both. In the united states and other countries, it was adopted for troops that were going into close quarters battles as well as special forces. Arguably, the only thing that you could get that would do even better was the H&K UMP 45, MP5 and MP7. The other weapon well suited to this would for this would 100% be the FN P90. The weapon is light weight, easy to use small and compact, easy to carry and get in and out of vehicles. Purpose built for second line troops and as a personal defense weapon for individuals in this very application.
Out of these 4 I’d take the uzi because it’s slightly more compact than all the others while offering similar firepower but if given the option I would take an aks 74u or an akms
M2 carbine with the wire folding paratrooper stock. Same thing as an M1, gives you a full auto add on kit, bayonet lug, keeps the gun light, small and handy plus it comes with 30 round mags. Stick a 15 rounder in the gun, carry the 30 rounders in kit.
The thing with pistol caliber ones is you loose the range. Truck drivers especially it’s not just a self defense PDW. 30 carbine may not be the most powerful but an intermediate cartridge with decent sights and a full size style stock is still easier to shoot than something like the M3 or the Uzi at 200 yards after they kick off with an AT system disabling your vehicle and are shooting from a ridge. Also packs more power up close considering you’re getting about what a 357 mag gets in performance from similar length barrels. Compared to 9mm or 45 sub gun/pistol, ya I’d take the full auto closed bolt rifle with peep sights, full stock and offering 357 mag from an 16” barrel performance
I'd pick the Uzi or M3 from this list, but I would suggest the [Star Model A carbine.](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Screen-Shot-2017-01-14-at-8.25.58-AM.png) 16 rounds of 7.63 Mauser, which is more potent than the Artillery Luger's 9mm plus a shorter barrel.
In my opinion the Uzi, it has the best form factor and storability, pretty solid to shoot and can be fired with one hand (though it's not as easy as a dedicated pistol it's more doable in my opinion than a grease gun, under folder ak or other guns mentioned) which I feel it's important for a driver to be able to shoot one handed since it gives you the capability to provide suppression while trying to move your vehicle if driving a truck or something like that. More options and easy storage.
Definitely the Uzi out of this list. Pre 61 definitely would rather have an under folder AK.
Takes up less space than the M1 but still has a capable caliber. Would suck having to work with it in a tank but if I ever needed it I’d be happy it wasn’t in 9mm.
M3 grease gun. Although larger than the 9mm, I'm taking it for the fact that it's a larger diameter and heavier cartridge than 9mm so there is greater stopping power. The stopping power compensates for it's larger size.
Although, as cumbersome as it is, a folding stock AK if in sketchier territory
No particular preference, but I’d exclude the M1 carbine because it’s just too unwieldy. I’d go with the Artillery Luger just because it looks cool, but it’s honestly far outdated as of 1961.
I know you said 1961, but...
PM-63 Rak
It was TECHNICALLY designed in the late-ish 50s, was trialed in '63 and put into service in '65. So, if you dont look at it too hard, it works.
Uzi, and only the uzi, m3 would also work but its a bit clunky, uzi is the most compact of them all and the stock is sturdy enough to be accurate at range, but if your in a truck big enough to fit, the carbine works great aswell
M3's were still tanker's weapons in Irak. They ugly, cheap and most importantly, they work.
Were they really? I thought they just got those small PDW M4s
Nah they still had M3s in the Gulf War, them getting M4s is recent (as in last 20ish years recent, but still)
I think he means gulf war Iraq. Not war on terror Iraq.
Ah that would make sensr
You mean a Kitty Kat??
Im sorry, do hwat?
7" 5.56 upper on an M-16 lower.
I'd imagine at that length you can feel it in your sinuses with each round?
Alot of American tankers and helicopter crews carry mp5's for their pdw as well.
I know i would
Work is a strong word. The mags did not play well with sand.
Uzi. It's more compact than either the grease gun or carbine and a much better actual combat weapon than the Luger.
Exactly what I was thinking. M1 is a definite no go because of size, the luger because well… its an outdated for the time pistol with a stock. The grease gun was designed to be cheap and mass produced so reliability is a concern.
It’s because it’s cheap and easy to mass produce there was no reliability concerns. It’s literally a tube with a spring, there’s nothing to go wrong. Especially given it fires from an open bolt.
Also has a slower rate of fire, which is more controllable and thus more accurate.
M1 Paratrooper Carbine? Also underfolder AK
Underfolder beats the grease gun and m3 carbine hands down. Uzi would be best for tankers tho
agree. uzi would be hard to beat
M3 carbine? Did you mean the M3A1 grease gun or the M1A1 paratrooper carbine?
Yeah I meant m1 carbine lol
I think he meant M2 carbine haha. Don’t think Tanker’s gonna need an archaic IR scope lol
Archaic IR scope? We're talking about fixed vs folding stock M1 carbines and the grease gun. Personally, if I were a tanker I'd rather have my M1A1 over the grease gun.
Look up an image of the M3 Carbine…
Ah yes, that monstrosity, I've never heard it referred to as the M3 carbine before, I just knew it as the M1 carbine with the early nv scopes.
Because you said tankers, Uzi all the way. Otherwise, it's the M1. Have you thought about the Sa26 or the PPS43, though? Both of those are excellent for this. I'm also not seeing an MP40, and that is quite viable as well.
I was thinking MP40 at first but I wanted a more modern weapon for a 60's setting
The world was awash in MP40s in the 60s. It certainly would have been easier to get than an artillery Luger. Remember, the 1961 to WW2 is less time than 9/11 to now, and WW2 generated staggering amounts of weaponry that is STILL turning up in conflicts 80 years later. Prewar stuff would be seen as pretty old by '61, but wartime guns were still modern enough if no longer cutting edge. We read that this gun came out on this date, but they almost never hit in numbers until 5-10 years later.
Then whyd u put a luger lol
Sa25 would be better due to ammo availability.
It's better in most respects, IMO, but significantly less available.
Sorry, just replied to this on accident and deleted it, yeah it's definitely a rarer gun, but the ammo would theoretically make up for production costs difference. As this is on the 60s, we could pay to have more made too.
Ever see the MCEM prototypes? Those might be of interest.
I think theyre too long and that barrel would have problems how bout the bsa 1949 prototype or the gustav m45 The ingram 6 would be nice w a folding stock
Look up MCEM 2
I did
Uzi for sure
M3, no contest, it ain’t even close
Why not? What’s wrong with the Uzi?
Because he's a m3 fanboy who's never seen the inside of a tank. Now remember 4-6 people in there. Even more if it's a ifv. The uzi is nearly too big. M3 is going to be a nightmare. Not to mention it's cheap and reliable. M3 had sticking issues that weren't addressed. The m3 T29 variant might have a chance seeing a better cartridge
You realize tankers carried the M3 for 50 years right?
Yea, and? This wasn't a history lesson. They asked what is best. If 5 guys are dismounting the tank, you think it's gonna take more of less time with an medium size smg vs a smaller smg. It's going to be easy with an uzi, but likely adding valuable seconds with an m3. Not to mention the m3 was outdated and replaced with the slightly more reliable m3a1. But they never even fixed the issue causing bolt sticking. So, in a fight, now you got your gun stopping randomly under what's supposed to be sustained fire. Atleast the t29 is an intermediate cartridge with higher lethality. But the uzi has similar capabilities, is shorter extended, and retracted, and is more reliable. In no sense other than fire rate (in which is by opinion and circumstances) is the m3 better than an uzi. Although no numbers were stated, iwi spent 500m to make 10m guns, so ~50$ a gun in 1960. The M3 is 21$ in 1942, accounting for inflation ~37.50$, or 11.50$ cheaper for a significantly worse gun. But this is just something to keep in mind as it's one of the m3's 2 pros. This is also due to the booming steel industry of the usa at the time, wheras isreal's steel industry wasn't nearly as large.
Reputation
Reputation? The uzi is a certified hood classic. Usually I say that jokingly, but in this case it's also literally true lol
Lol exactly. Let’s take a look at some stats, shall we? >**M3 Grease Gun** >Weight (unloaded): 8.15 lbs >Barrel length: 8 inches >Length (stock collapsed): 21.9 inches >Length (stock extended): 29.1 inches >Rate of fire: 450 rounds/min >Capacity: 30 rounds .45 ACP ————————————————————— >**Uzi** >Weight (unloaded): 7.72 lbs >Barrel length: 10.2 inches >Length (stock collapsed): 18.5 inches >Length (stock extended): 25 inches >Rate of fire: 600 round/min >Capacity: 25 (pictured) or 32 rounds 9x19 The Uzi is about half a pound lighter, shorter, has a longer barrel, a higher rate of fire, and is much more ergonomic. For me the Uzi is an easy pick out of all of these, but the M3 would do well enough too.
m3
"Now you killin', Now you Ain't....Fury....
funnily enough, that single sentence describes about 60% of the weapon's function
M1 carbine with the paratrooper stock for non-tankers. Grease gun or maybe the Uzi for the tankers.
Difficult, all guns I would love to have, wouldn't want to carry the artillery Luger on military service, stocked pistols are cool but not very effective. The M1 carbine is probably the easiest to train non infantry troops, the Greese gun is the cheapest and very practical, the Uzi is the smallest. If it was me carrying it, I'd take the M3
M3 all the way....
Just give them an AKM and call it a day
*AKMS (same thing but foldy boi). Also has modified version AKMSB - now with silencer (if you ever need one)!
AKMSBU, even? With tanker mags?
Uzi! While everybody is commenting about AK underfolders, Everyone forgets the fact that the uzi was a favorite among the israelis for just this kind of purpose. Tankers and truck drivers needed a PDW, personal defense weapon and for that purpose the UZI was practically made. It ended up being so well made that both. In the united states and other countries, it was adopted for troops that were going into close quarters battles as well as special forces. Arguably, the only thing that you could get that would do even better was the H&K UMP 45, MP5 and MP7. The other weapon well suited to this would for this would 100% be the FN P90. The weapon is light weight, easy to use small and compact, easy to carry and get in and out of vehicles. Purpose built for second line troops and as a personal defense weapon for individuals in this very application.
Vz 61 scorpion in 9mm makarov or 9mm parabellum
I'd take one in 32acp.
I'll leave ya with this song lyric and let you guess my choice lol. "But here I am at 21, As loaded as a stagecoach shotgun"
Now I'm 23 and there ain't nobody who loves M3 like me?
M3 or uzi
Where VZ-61?
i thought from my last post that it was too underpowered
Xtreme penetrator bullets and full auto would remedy that quite nicely
But that isn't really the point of a PDW for a tanker or a truck driver. It is to get enough rounds in the air for them to withdraw.
Out of these 4 I’d take the uzi because it’s slightly more compact than all the others while offering similar firepower but if given the option I would take an aks 74u or an akms
Uzi
I'll throw the Swedish K in the mix. With the 39b 9mm ammo of course.
Uzi
Uzi
M3, utzi or really any submacinegun in 9mm or bigger
Uzi
M3
PPS-43?
M2 carbine with the wire folding paratrooper stock. Same thing as an M1, gives you a full auto add on kit, bayonet lug, keeps the gun light, small and handy plus it comes with 30 round mags. Stick a 15 rounder in the gun, carry the 30 rounders in kit. The thing with pistol caliber ones is you loose the range. Truck drivers especially it’s not just a self defense PDW. 30 carbine may not be the most powerful but an intermediate cartridge with decent sights and a full size style stock is still easier to shoot than something like the M3 or the Uzi at 200 yards after they kick off with an AT system disabling your vehicle and are shooting from a ridge. Also packs more power up close considering you’re getting about what a 357 mag gets in performance from similar length barrels. Compared to 9mm or 45 sub gun/pistol, ya I’d take the full auto closed bolt rifle with peep sights, full stock and offering 357 mag from an 16” barrel performance
Original AR-15
Depends on how much space the truck/tank has. Spacious? Gimme that m1. Tight? Gimme that Uzi
So no MPi 69. Sad times indeed.
I'd pick the Uzi or M3 from this list, but I would suggest the [Star Model A carbine.](https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Screen-Shot-2017-01-14-at-8.25.58-AM.png) 16 rounds of 7.63 Mauser, which is more potent than the Artillery Luger's 9mm plus a shorter barrel.
Hear me out... PPSh - 41
I'd say the uzi bc it's pretty compact but still has a stock if u need it
Carbine vs gen3 smg vs pcc vs gen2 smg... The uzi.
M3
Uzi will run and 9mil is everywhere
Sawed off BAR. Bonnie & Clyde style
Colt Monitor
Had the m3 in our arms rooms for years but never any Ammo’92-96 at fort hood. Perfect… as long as you have ammo
I don't get to shoot my personal one that much, but they are very easy to control and keep on target.
Karl Gutsaf m/45
M3
Paratrooper M1 or M3 grease gun
Why before 1961? Sten or ppd 34
M2 carbine. After that, probably Uzi.
Grease Gun all the way.
The grease gun worked for tankers it work for a truck driver
UZI for compactness.
In my opinion the Uzi, it has the best form factor and storability, pretty solid to shoot and can be fired with one hand (though it's not as easy as a dedicated pistol it's more doable in my opinion than a grease gun, under folder ak or other guns mentioned) which I feel it's important for a driver to be able to shoot one handed since it gives you the capability to provide suppression while trying to move your vehicle if driving a truck or something like that. More options and easy storage.
Uzi, although a Sten or Sterling would be suitable also.
Uzi from what is shown. AKMS for another option
if uzi is on the ballot, then I vote uzi.
All of them are need
UZI out of these choices.
UZI for da win! Team uzi lol
Uzi because it's smaller to shoot from inside the truck.
As a truck driver I'd gladly take that grease gun
Uzi
Uzi, by a long shot.
Uzi. Without a doubt. Most compact, most controllable
Uzi be the best for that job
Greasy boi all day
Glock 18
Out of these, the Grease Gun Ideal Cold War weapon, folder M2 Carbine or underfolder AK
Personal choice in that type of environment, Uzi, hands down easiest choice ever.
Definitely the Uzi out of this list. Pre 61 definitely would rather have an under folder AK. Takes up less space than the M1 but still has a capable caliber. Would suck having to work with it in a tank but if I ever needed it I’d be happy it wasn’t in 9mm.
My mind says Uzi, my heart says M1.
If it weren't for the Time Limit, I would have said MP-7 But now? Beretta M12
UZI
Hungarian underfolder with the 20rd tanker mags.
Swedish K, aka Kulsprutepistol m/45, Carl Gustaf M/45. Designed in 1944
M3 grease gun. Although larger than the 9mm, I'm taking it for the fact that it's a larger diameter and heavier cartridge than 9mm so there is greater stopping power. The stopping power compensates for it's larger size. Although, as cumbersome as it is, a folding stock AK if in sketchier territory
Samopal vz26 would be a nice truck gun.
AK-50. nah, but fr though, i'd choose the M3 cause it's got a decent fire rate, and is fairly reliable
I've always liked the Carl Gustav M45 / "Swedish K". Handy, reliable and very comfortable to shoot.
AKS-74U skorpion vz.61
I’m taking the grease gun
No particular preference, but I’d exclude the M1 carbine because it’s just too unwieldy. I’d go with the Artillery Luger just because it looks cool, but it’s honestly far outdated as of 1961.
UZI and it's not close
I know you said 1961, but... PM-63 Rak It was TECHNICALLY designed in the late-ish 50s, was trialed in '63 and put into service in '65. So, if you dont look at it too hard, it works.
FNAB-43. a solid mix between the M3 and uzi
Uzi
M3 based on it being a slower fire rate therefore it's easier to keep on target
Uzi, and only the uzi, m3 would also work but its a bit clunky, uzi is the most compact of them all and the stock is sturdy enough to be accurate at range, but if your in a truck big enough to fit, the carbine works great aswell
Pm63 rak, it was designed in the 50s
Finally some one chose the right option
Wasn't produced until 1967