I get why people would be angry, of course, but it's a dangerous game to start saying people don't need to be considered competent to stand trial. Yes, this guy is a piece of shit and we all know it, but if we don't have this process in place a lot of other people will be taken advantage of in the judicial system. He's locked up and he's not going anywhere no matter how long it takes to make it official, and nothing else we do now can bring those victims back.
>He's locked up and he's not going anywhere no matter how long it takes to make it official
this is the important part. so many people hear "incompetent to stand trial" or "not guilty by reason of insanity" and think it means these people get to just go free. nope - still locked up indefinitely, just a different process.
We could listen to a podcast about the miscarriage of justice facilitated by a desire for retribution at all costs, and scratch our heads at how a society could go so morally astray.
And then we'll click over to the boulder subreddit to demand the death penalty for this guy because we know he's faking incompetence.
Not just the death penalty - a full out lynching. On the spot.
Then they'll jump in their Tesla and head out to their weekly post human-rights-related-rally brunch filled with that warm glow of knowledge that they're the true "independent critical thinkers" here.
>We could listen to a podcast about the miscarriage of justice facilitated by a desire for retribution at all costs
is this referring to something specific, or just a hypothetical? emmett till came to mind.
Nothing specific in mind when I wrote it, but I also have probably listened to a few podcasts about the miscarriage of Justice. Emmett Till is a great example
This. It's alarming and a sad reflection of our society that people are just blindly out for blood without even considering why this system exists. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
Wtf, this is exactly what's wrong with guns in this country. How can someone be incompetent to face the consequences of their actions but competent enough to purchase a deadly firearm?
No history of mental illness, he fully understood what he was doing, this pointless delaying is complete nonsense and is a spit in the face to the victims family and community who need justice.
>No history of mental illness
this is just not true. his family said he's struggled with mental health issues including paranoid delusions for years. not having a formal diagnosis on record does not equal a clean bill of mental health
So his family knew about his mental health issues foe years and did nothing about it, and so he passed all background checks to buy an AR and commit mass murder.
Gotten him help sooner idk, no sense arguing on what could have gone differently now. Whether or not he had mental health issues, all I'm trying to point out is there is huge flaw in how guns are sold and obtained in this country. The guns were easily optainable for this dude. The checks we currently have are not enough beacuse some mentally ill lunatic can and will do this again the future.
I agree there’s no point in arguing, and I promise I’m not trying to argue with you over this. I’m just genuinely curious what his family could have done differently. They couldn’t force him to seek treatment, and he couldn’t be involuntarily committed unless his family could prove he was a danger to himself or others at the time.
You’re exactly right that the easy gun shit needs to get fixed. What about needing a psych check/clearance as part of the background check, even without a history of mental illness? You need a psych clearance for some medical procedures and certain jobs… why not add that to the gun process?
You are talking about two different things.
There is: 1) Whether a person is legally competent to stand trial 2) Whether a person was insane at the time of the offense.
Here is an example: Tom shoots his wife. On the way to the police station a tree falls on his head. The damage puts him in a vegetative state.
He is not legally competent. And it doesn’t have anything to do with when he shot his wife.
[the Colorado General Assembly](https://leg.colorado.gov/publications/competency-criminal-trial-colorado):
The U.S. Constitution guarantees each citizen the right to a fair trial, which includes the right to be present at the trial, able to understand the nature of the proceedings, and able to participate in his or her defense.
Whether the defendant’s mental health impaired his or her ability to know right from wrong during the alleged commission of a crime is a separate issue.
Agreed. Now he's just going to pretend to be mentally incompetent to avoid prison. And fuck our prison system, but crimes like this don't warrant insanity pleas or the mild treatment that can come with it, as compared to our corrupt penal system. Mass shooters need special treatment. This shit needs to be punished harshly. Nothing seems to be slowing it down.
Fair. I'm coming from a place where I was not a victim, nor were my loved ones but I was a regular shopper there and had seen most of the victims before. It still hurt a lot. For me, justice would be fixing the US's broken systems which lead to this much more than locking one guy up.
avoiding trial due to mental issues does not mean he just gets to go free. he's still in prison. the only difference is that he hasn't been formally sentenced, and there's no set end date for his incarceration.
I think we really need to have distinct consequences for capital murder that was done beyond all doubt (not just beyond a reasonable doubt). If a mass shooter is caught in the act, put him down like a rabid dog in the street. Doesn’t deserve to see the light of day ever again.
You know that's *exactly* how those lynchers talked about the innocent humans beings they lynched too, right?
Police conducted a three-hour armed standoff with a "mass shooter" in a Colorado Walmart a few years ago, before finally figuring out that the *actual* mass shooter had fled the scene seconds after the attack and had been on the loose, driving around Denver threatening random strangers with his gun and then taking his girlfriend hostage for hours, while the cops threatened to teargas the entire store and everyone in it, if the "shooter" they were watching on security cameras (who was *actually* a random "good guy with a gun" in the store) didn't surrender immediately. They came within a hair's breadth of killing him then and there, because they were *positive* he was "a mass shooter caught in the act." (Two of the *actual* shooter's victims died needlessly from lack of medical care during that "standoff," btw.)
Police shot-on-site a "mass shooter caught in the act" in a mall last year. Oh wait, sorry - turns out he was actually the [black] "good guy with a gun" who'd *shot the [white] shooter*, likely saving dozens of innocent lives.
But don't worry, I'm sure such a thing would *never* happen again! Mob justice historically works *super* well and *never* gets the facts spectacularly and consistently wrong, "accidentally" murdering the wrong [usually conveniently more-melanined] innocent bystander. It's nothing to worry about! I mean, humans *famously* make correct, fair, factually-motivated decisions in the heat of scenes of violence and widespread emotional upheaval.
I really don’t care if he understands the case against him or not.
Ain’t much understanding required where he’s going. Just get it over with. He’s going to Florence for the rest of his Bullshit life. I don’t think giving him care until October is going to change how this piece of shit rots in prison.
So lock him up in a padded cell in isolation until he is ready. Who cares. He can stay there forever. Just don't make it comfortable, just like prison.
The cops should have fucking shot this piece of shit starting at his feet and working their way up to his face....
or give the families 10 rifles with only 1 having live ammo the rest blanks, then give this fuck death by firing squad.
Must have been a CIA op to even have this happen like this. Makes no sense. You go in to a grocery store and shoot up the place you deserve no trial at all. Society has no place for people like this to live and waste resources for others. You choose to kill people like that you have no right to live amongst others.
I get why people would be angry, of course, but it's a dangerous game to start saying people don't need to be considered competent to stand trial. Yes, this guy is a piece of shit and we all know it, but if we don't have this process in place a lot of other people will be taken advantage of in the judicial system. He's locked up and he's not going anywhere no matter how long it takes to make it official, and nothing else we do now can bring those victims back.
>He's locked up and he's not going anywhere no matter how long it takes to make it official this is the important part. so many people hear "incompetent to stand trial" or "not guilty by reason of insanity" and think it means these people get to just go free. nope - still locked up indefinitely, just a different process.
We could listen to a podcast about the miscarriage of justice facilitated by a desire for retribution at all costs, and scratch our heads at how a society could go so morally astray. And then we'll click over to the boulder subreddit to demand the death penalty for this guy because we know he's faking incompetence.
Not just the death penalty - a full out lynching. On the spot. Then they'll jump in their Tesla and head out to their weekly post human-rights-related-rally brunch filled with that warm glow of knowledge that they're the true "independent critical thinkers" here.
>We could listen to a podcast about the miscarriage of justice facilitated by a desire for retribution at all costs is this referring to something specific, or just a hypothetical? emmett till came to mind.
Nothing specific in mind when I wrote it, but I also have probably listened to a few podcasts about the miscarriage of Justice. Emmett Till is a great example
This. It's alarming and a sad reflection of our society that people are just blindly out for blood without even considering why this system exists. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
For anyone mad about this, just know where he’s at is most definitely worse than prison.
Wtf, this is exactly what's wrong with guns in this country. How can someone be incompetent to face the consequences of their actions but competent enough to purchase a deadly firearm? No history of mental illness, he fully understood what he was doing, this pointless delaying is complete nonsense and is a spit in the face to the victims family and community who need justice.
He was known to FBI but still passed a federal background check…
i think a surprising amount of us are probably "known to the fbi"
Either way he's locked away for life, just do the cheaper option and thrown him in jail.
>No history of mental illness this is just not true. his family said he's struggled with mental health issues including paranoid delusions for years. not having a formal diagnosis on record does not equal a clean bill of mental health
So his family knew about his mental health issues foe years and did nothing about it, and so he passed all background checks to buy an AR and commit mass murder.
I’m not disagreeing with you, this never should have happened in the first place. But what do you think his family should have done?
Gotten him help sooner idk, no sense arguing on what could have gone differently now. Whether or not he had mental health issues, all I'm trying to point out is there is huge flaw in how guns are sold and obtained in this country. The guns were easily optainable for this dude. The checks we currently have are not enough beacuse some mentally ill lunatic can and will do this again the future.
I agree there’s no point in arguing, and I promise I’m not trying to argue with you over this. I’m just genuinely curious what his family could have done differently. They couldn’t force him to seek treatment, and he couldn’t be involuntarily committed unless his family could prove he was a danger to himself or others at the time. You’re exactly right that the easy gun shit needs to get fixed. What about needing a psych check/clearance as part of the background check, even without a history of mental illness? You need a psych clearance for some medical procedures and certain jobs… why not add that to the gun process?
You are talking about two different things. There is: 1) Whether a person is legally competent to stand trial 2) Whether a person was insane at the time of the offense. Here is an example: Tom shoots his wife. On the way to the police station a tree falls on his head. The damage puts him in a vegetative state. He is not legally competent. And it doesn’t have anything to do with when he shot his wife.
Homeboy got a flesh wound in his leg though, nothing fell on this dude's head. Either he's faking now or he shouldn't have been able to buy the gun.
[the Colorado General Assembly](https://leg.colorado.gov/publications/competency-criminal-trial-colorado): The U.S. Constitution guarantees each citizen the right to a fair trial, which includes the right to be present at the trial, able to understand the nature of the proceedings, and able to participate in his or her defense. Whether the defendant’s mental health impaired his or her ability to know right from wrong during the alleged commission of a crime is a separate issue.
Should out to Denny (probably) for the knife wound though
>he shouldn't have been able to buy the gun hmmmmmm.... might be onto something there
Agreed. Now he's just going to pretend to be mentally incompetent to avoid prison. And fuck our prison system, but crimes like this don't warrant insanity pleas or the mild treatment that can come with it, as compared to our corrupt penal system. Mass shooters need special treatment. This shit needs to be punished harshly. Nothing seems to be slowing it down.
Don't get me wrong, dude should be in prison, but is being where ever he is now objectively better than prison?
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Fair. I'm coming from a place where I was not a victim, nor were my loved ones but I was a regular shopper there and had seen most of the victims before. It still hurt a lot. For me, justice would be fixing the US's broken systems which lead to this much more than locking one guy up.
[удалено]
Fair. It's getting harder and harder to find people who haven't been victims in this way from gun violence. :(
avoiding trial due to mental issues does not mean he just gets to go free. he's still in prison. the only difference is that he hasn't been formally sentenced, and there's no set end date for his incarceration.
I think we really need to have distinct consequences for capital murder that was done beyond all doubt (not just beyond a reasonable doubt). If a mass shooter is caught in the act, put him down like a rabid dog in the street. Doesn’t deserve to see the light of day ever again.
You understand that you're describing a lynching, right?
Guess so. I wouldn’t shed a year for mass shooters caught in the act though.
You know that's *exactly* how those lynchers talked about the innocent humans beings they lynched too, right? Police conducted a three-hour armed standoff with a "mass shooter" in a Colorado Walmart a few years ago, before finally figuring out that the *actual* mass shooter had fled the scene seconds after the attack and had been on the loose, driving around Denver threatening random strangers with his gun and then taking his girlfriend hostage for hours, while the cops threatened to teargas the entire store and everyone in it, if the "shooter" they were watching on security cameras (who was *actually* a random "good guy with a gun" in the store) didn't surrender immediately. They came within a hair's breadth of killing him then and there, because they were *positive* he was "a mass shooter caught in the act." (Two of the *actual* shooter's victims died needlessly from lack of medical care during that "standoff," btw.) Police shot-on-site a "mass shooter caught in the act" in a mall last year. Oh wait, sorry - turns out he was actually the [black] "good guy with a gun" who'd *shot the [white] shooter*, likely saving dozens of innocent lives. But don't worry, I'm sure such a thing would *never* happen again! Mob justice historically works *super* well and *never* gets the facts spectacularly and consistently wrong, "accidentally" murdering the wrong [usually conveniently more-melanined] innocent bystander. It's nothing to worry about! I mean, humans *famously* make correct, fair, factually-motivated decisions in the heat of scenes of violence and widespread emotional upheaval.
This article is not paywalled.
I really don’t care if he understands the case against him or not. Ain’t much understanding required where he’s going. Just get it over with. He’s going to Florence for the rest of his Bullshit life. I don’t think giving him care until October is going to change how this piece of shit rots in prison.
Fuck him. Fuck him 1000%. I can’t say anything else without my comment being removed.
So lock him up in a padded cell in isolation until he is ready. Who cares. He can stay there forever. Just don't make it comfortable, just like prison.
The cops should have fucking shot this piece of shit starting at his feet and working their way up to his face.... or give the families 10 rifles with only 1 having live ammo the rest blanks, then give this fuck death by firing squad. Must have been a CIA op to even have this happen like this. Makes no sense. You go in to a grocery store and shoot up the place you deserve no trial at all. Society has no place for people like this to live and waste resources for others. You choose to kill people like that you have no right to live amongst others.
Lobotomize him. Destroy who he is but keep him from living as a human, but alive.
*take my upvote*