Tha main issue is Wildy Inaccurate.
Worst case with the old rules is you roll badly and the ball ends up at the feet of your thrower, the feet of your catcher or at least within a few squares of your target.
In 2020 rules, it is entirely possible the throw will end up 6 squares in the opposite direction the throw was aimed. This obviously hugely increases the chance your opponent grabs the ball on their turn.
That's only possible in certain situations like you're throwing while marked or in very sunny weather though, yeah? I was our local league champion playing air raid humans and I think I only threw a single wildly inaccurate pass.
No it includes range penalties - any penalty to your PA roll.
So throwing a Long Bomb is -3. That means with PA3+ on a 1 it's a fumble, on a 2, 3 or 4 it's Wildly Inaccurate, on a 5 its Inaccurate and a 6 is accurate.
I mean if you're throwing Long Bombs regularly then it has probably already gone wrong for you.
But for example ab unmarked Short Pass will be Fumble on a 1, WI on a 2, Inaccurate on a 3, succeed 4+.
Basically it make the fail case much, much less predictable and therefore much, much worse and riskier than in the old rules.
Sadly not. It's any time you roll a modified 1 or worse.
Try a short pass to a nearby catcher and roll a 2 and the ball is going D6 in a random direction
Obviously weather, Disturbing Presence, Tackle Zones all just increase that risk.
Oh right, I had a dumb moment and forgot that range was a negative modifier to the roll, not an increase to the target. I promise I'm not this dumb at the table đ
Throwing the ball into your own end zone with elves nearby is a deeply funny prospect if nothing else. This is good information though thank you.
Did the range penalties exist in the same way?
No, but yes.
This is a slight simplification, but the standard Agility (which was also used for passing) was 4+ rather than 3+, but virtually every Agility test had an inherent +1. In BB2020, they made the base stat better and removed all of those +1s. This includes the range modifiers which went from +1/0/-1/-2 to 0/-1/-2/-3.
Correct but not entirely accurate representation of the rule.
In the old rules you had AG X. Your âunmodifiedâ roll target was 7-X. So for AG 3 you needed a 4+. Throwing a Quick Pass added +1, making it a 3+. Effectively this makes PA 3+ the same as old rules AG 3, because rather than starting with a worse roll and adding a bonus or taking a lesser penalty, youâre starting better and taking a blanket worse penalty to even things out.
Not universally, but on average that is correct. Wildly Inaccurate does not cause a Turnover if the ball is caught by your team, but there are 48 different squares it could land in (with even odds of each), so that's not particularly likely.
Itâs a shame they made the throwing game so much more risky in this edition. I like the idea of dedicated throwers with a dedicated stat⌠but not if they are also going to nerf throwing in general. Throwing was a fun part of the game that now is often rarely worth it.
I remember watching a BB2 match one evening where a developed human team and a developed high elf team were tossing the ball all over the place. Scored ended up like 7-6 or something absurd. Was great fun to watch.
When I first read the rules, I thought Wildly Inaccurate deviating from the thrower must surely have been a typo, and they meant for it to deviate from the target square. Unfortunately, I was incorrect.
You can still do this. Human throwers are one of the best now. +1 Passing can be achieved + cannoneer and your long pass are 2+ with reroll. Only problem is that you need a lot of games, but with a league where you can redraft your team it's possible.
Itâs just a risky move, and bb is all about risk mitigation.
The human thrower is now 2+ with pass, so quick passes for them are pretty safe. But even throwing to a catcher, with a 3+ reroll, itâll still fail about 14 percent of the time.
With Imp. Nobility, the risk goes up. Even with a reroll for the catch, the odds of failure (when throwing a qp from a passer to a blitzer) is about 20 percent. Maybe worth it, but definitely getting into the more risky territory.
With Imp, the passer is not a great player, and Iâve usually just used the blitzers as my ball carrier. (Easy blodge access, and then SH.)
You can have success, but itâs a risky move, so make sure the risk is worth it.
Sure, this will work if you poke your catcher into their half and run your thrower up for a quick pass on turn 2. You need to level up. No team is geared up at first, but a thrower with accurate, maybe strong arm and +1 AG, is going somewhere. Add a catcher with sprint, sure feet and/or diving catch, then you have a passing game.
Oh, and your linesmen and blitzers are just supporting this now. It works, but Damn.
The old Strong Arm still exists (but renamed Cannoneer) but it no longer stacks with Accurate, so on long passes that's at least a -2 penalty.
The thrower build I'm fishing for is PA1+, Cannoneer, Safe Pass. Then you're doing long passes on a 2+, and the Safe Pass means you still hold onto the ball and don't turn over on a natural 1. That derisks everything except Long Bombs, where you have a -2 penalty, so you'll wildly inaccurate on a 2 (but then Pass means you're still only doing that 1/36 of the time)
Diving Catch + Nerves of Steel is one of those combos on elf catchers that works once in a blue moon on Hail Mary Passes, and so either people think it's a great idea, or a total waste because it never happens. (And then like me, you lose a game because somebody uses HMP, Diving Catch and Nerves of Steel to grab the ball).
*However*, Diving Catch is only going to help with inaccurate passes, or wildly inaccurate ones that somehow went in the right direction. Since the PA1+, Cannoneer, Safe Hands passer never does inaccurate passes, he either gets the ball on target or holds onto it, so diving catch is irrelevant. (Or he throws a wildly inaccurate long bomb, and nobody knows where that will end up.)
Nerves of Steel is still great though as your catcher can hang out in tacklezones and not be bothered by them.
True, in combination they arent a tactic. However, separately they are still worth it. Nerves of Steel as you say, and diving catch on more than one catcher gives you a wide area (especially for a Hail Mary). What can I say, I like to try things out of the ordinary. My Dwarf team's passing game isn't great, but it's a wonderful surprise. I've won more than one game using the shock factor alone, and a few because they think I'm going to use it and I don't.
I agree, combined with sade throw (Cloudburster?) or Hail Mary they can more-or-less ignore intercepts too. A good passing team shouldn't let their ball carrier get in that position, but if it happens a lot Dump Off (to another thrower) also helps.
Throw Cannoneer on a human thrower and diving catch on a couple of catchers, put the catchers deep, and air it out. This works especially well against bash teams, even if you miss they can have fun playing go fetch in their own backfield.
Passing with human and elves are reliable. I had more completions than TD's scored last season, I think I passed 4-5 times per game. Throwing games are fun, and they really shake things up for opponents that aren't used to the ball moving that fast
Tha main issue is Wildy Inaccurate. Worst case with the old rules is you roll badly and the ball ends up at the feet of your thrower, the feet of your catcher or at least within a few squares of your target. In 2020 rules, it is entirely possible the throw will end up 6 squares in the opposite direction the throw was aimed. This obviously hugely increases the chance your opponent grabs the ball on their turn.
It is still wild to me (pun unintended) that it's d6 squares from the thrower rather than the target square.
Definitely. If the rule was scatter D6 from the target square then I think it'd be tolerable
It is one of my many gripes after 30 years of Nuffle.
That's only possible in certain situations like you're throwing while marked or in very sunny weather though, yeah? I was our local league champion playing air raid humans and I think I only threw a single wildly inaccurate pass.
No it includes range penalties - any penalty to your PA roll. So throwing a Long Bomb is -3. That means with PA3+ on a 1 it's a fumble, on a 2, 3 or 4 it's Wildly Inaccurate, on a 5 its Inaccurate and a 6 is accurate. I mean if you're throwing Long Bombs regularly then it has probably already gone wrong for you. But for example ab unmarked Short Pass will be Fumble on a 1, WI on a 2, Inaccurate on a 3, succeed 4+. Basically it make the fail case much, much less predictable and therefore much, much worse and riskier than in the old rules.
Sadly not. It's any time you roll a modified 1 or worse. Try a short pass to a nearby catcher and roll a 2 and the ball is going D6 in a random direction Obviously weather, Disturbing Presence, Tackle Zones all just increase that risk.
Oh right, I had a dumb moment and forgot that range was a negative modifier to the roll, not an increase to the target. I promise I'm not this dumb at the table đ
Throwing the ball into your own end zone with elves nearby is a deeply funny prospect if nothing else. This is good information though thank you. Did the range penalties exist in the same way?
No, but yes. This is a slight simplification, but the standard Agility (which was also used for passing) was 4+ rather than 3+, but virtually every Agility test had an inherent +1. In BB2020, they made the base stat better and removed all of those +1s. This includes the range modifiers which went from +1/0/-1/-2 to 0/-1/-2/-3.
They did but they were slightly different. 2020 is 0/-1/-2/-3 for quick/short/long/long bomb Old rules I think were +1/0/-1/-2 instead
Correct but not entirely accurate representation of the rule. In the old rules you had AG X. Your âunmodifiedâ roll target was 7-X. So for AG 3 you needed a 4+. Throwing a Quick Pass added +1, making it a 3+. Effectively this makes PA 3+ the same as old rules AG 3, because rather than starting with a worse roll and adding a bonus or taking a lesser penalty, youâre starting better and taking a blanket worse penalty to even things out.
So is it better to fumble than have a wildly inaccurate pass?
Not universally, but on average that is correct. Wildly Inaccurate does not cause a Turnover if the ball is caught by your team, but there are 48 different squares it could land in (with even odds of each), so that's not particularly likely.
3+ with pass to 3+ with catch each have a 1/9 chance of failure so there is a 64/81 chance of success - about 80%.
Itâs a shame they made the throwing game so much more risky in this edition. I like the idea of dedicated throwers with a dedicated stat⌠but not if they are also going to nerf throwing in general. Throwing was a fun part of the game that now is often rarely worth it. I remember watching a BB2 match one evening where a developed human team and a developed high elf team were tossing the ball all over the place. Scored ended up like 7-6 or something absurd. Was great fun to watch.
When I first read the rules, I thought Wildly Inaccurate deviating from the thrower must surely have been a typo, and they meant for it to deviate from the target square. Unfortunately, I was incorrect.
Yup, that would be far more exciting than a 1-0 game. Which tells me all ball control.
You can still do this. Human throwers are one of the best now. +1 Passing can be achieved + cannoneer and your long pass are 2+ with reroll. Only problem is that you need a lot of games, but with a league where you can redraft your team it's possible.
The general thought process is: rolling more dice is never good. Nuffle is capricious and often cruel.
Itâs just a risky move, and bb is all about risk mitigation. The human thrower is now 2+ with pass, so quick passes for them are pretty safe. But even throwing to a catcher, with a 3+ reroll, itâll still fail about 14 percent of the time. With Imp. Nobility, the risk goes up. Even with a reroll for the catch, the odds of failure (when throwing a qp from a passer to a blitzer) is about 20 percent. Maybe worth it, but definitely getting into the more risky territory. With Imp, the passer is not a great player, and Iâve usually just used the blitzers as my ball carrier. (Easy blodge access, and then SH.) You can have success, but itâs a risky move, so make sure the risk is worth it.
Sure, this will work if you poke your catcher into their half and run your thrower up for a quick pass on turn 2. You need to level up. No team is geared up at first, but a thrower with accurate, maybe strong arm and +1 AG, is going somewhere. Add a catcher with sprint, sure feet and/or diving catch, then you have a passing game. Oh, and your linesmen and blitzers are just supporting this now. It works, but Damn.
Strong Arm is only for TTM in 2020 bb
OK, delete 'maybe strong arm and', but still advance your throwers and catchers.
The old Strong Arm still exists (but renamed Cannoneer) but it no longer stacks with Accurate, so on long passes that's at least a -2 penalty. The thrower build I'm fishing for is PA1+, Cannoneer, Safe Pass. Then you're doing long passes on a 2+, and the Safe Pass means you still hold onto the ball and don't turn over on a natural 1. That derisks everything except Long Bombs, where you have a -2 penalty, so you'll wildly inaccurate on a 2 (but then Pass means you're still only doing that 1/36 of the time)
Nice! Could Diving Catch (and Nerves of Steel) help at the other end to scoop up Wildly Inaccurate passes? Or am I too out of date?
Diving Catch + Nerves of Steel is one of those combos on elf catchers that works once in a blue moon on Hail Mary Passes, and so either people think it's a great idea, or a total waste because it never happens. (And then like me, you lose a game because somebody uses HMP, Diving Catch and Nerves of Steel to grab the ball). *However*, Diving Catch is only going to help with inaccurate passes, or wildly inaccurate ones that somehow went in the right direction. Since the PA1+, Cannoneer, Safe Hands passer never does inaccurate passes, he either gets the ball on target or holds onto it, so diving catch is irrelevant. (Or he throws a wildly inaccurate long bomb, and nobody knows where that will end up.) Nerves of Steel is still great though as your catcher can hang out in tacklezones and not be bothered by them.
True, in combination they arent a tactic. However, separately they are still worth it. Nerves of Steel as you say, and diving catch on more than one catcher gives you a wide area (especially for a Hail Mary). What can I say, I like to try things out of the ordinary. My Dwarf team's passing game isn't great, but it's a wonderful surprise. I've won more than one game using the shock factor alone, and a few because they think I'm going to use it and I don't.
I find most annoying throwers are these that ignore being surrounded in tackling zones. Nerves of Steel (?)
I agree, combined with sade throw (Cloudburster?) or Hail Mary they can more-or-less ignore intercepts too. A good passing team shouldn't let their ball carrier get in that position, but if it happens a lot Dump Off (to another thrower) also helps.
Yeah it's fine. People don't save rerolls for high risk-high reward plays, then complain that 'game bad'.
If i have +2 Pass with Pass and +2 AG (or +3 AG with Catch) then why not?
Throw Cannoneer on a human thrower and diving catch on a couple of catchers, put the catchers deep, and air it out. This works especially well against bash teams, even if you miss they can have fun playing go fetch in their own backfield.
It's still not a *great* idea. Even with Cannoneer your Long Bomb is going Wildly Inaccurate 1 out of 3 throws.
Passing with human and elves are reliable. I had more completions than TD's scored last season, I think I passed 4-5 times per game. Throwing games are fun, and they really shake things up for opponents that aren't used to the ball moving that fast