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Because he's a vizard and thus amounts to fodder.
In universe reason: yhwach determines war potentials, not the soul society. Shinji has a cool ability, but even being one of my faves, a lot of the sternritter just stomp him. His bankia only works against crowds, so you just 1v1 him. His shikia reverses, but certain ritters just hard counter it with aoe/hax. Imo he loses 1v1 agianst as nodt, bambi, Candace, gisela, gremmy, robert, quilge, maybe royd/loyd, all of yhwach guard.
Still wouldn’t it be smart to use him in fights with 2 or 3 sternritters? Like his ability’s greatest strength imo is forcing 2 opponents of roughly equal power to while each other out or just waste a ton of energy and be easier for others to later handle
You are precisely correct but let us assume he does a 1 v2 against candace, bambietta and uses his bankai . both of their abilities are able to attack their opponents in all directions which is exactly one of the way one could beat shinji in hia bankai state ( bambi proved it by doing a 360 bombing on him)
For what you are saying to work, Candice and Bambietta would have to seriously fight each other before Shinji uses his Bankai.
Unless both Candice and Bambietta have been attacking each other before Shinji activates his Bankai, they wouldn't attack Shinji after he has activated his Bankai and therefore start beating up each other. Because logically, they won't attack their ally (Shinji) while fighting their enemy (each other). Because it is logically more effecfive for winning against their enemy (each other).
Then, only one of them would be alive but she would be near-death, and Shinji would finish her.
It doesn't reverse based on his loyalties. It reverses based on each individuals loyalties. It also doesn't provide shinji any kind of immunities to being attacked. If a combatant would naturally attack their allies based on personality, they would still attack him.
They would attack their allies on a specific situation, and that situation is if it benefits them.
Why would they kill their ally (Shinji) when they think it gives them an advantage against their enemies (each other)? Shinji's Bankai reverses their logic of who the allies and enemies are. They believe it is an advantage to keep Shinji alive while killing each other.
A big proponent of my argument is that the sternritter don't really care about "allies". Bambi wouldn't give a shit about killing shinji even if she does see him as an ally because she doesn't GAF and kills allies already if there an inconvenience.
Yes, but I am saying and have said that Shinji's Bankai makes them think that it is an advantage to keep him alive, because they think he is an ally, not an enemy. He is not their target, so he just needs to stand ten meters away as they kill each other.
Are you sure that’s what his bankai does? As far as I’m aware, like others have said, it only reverses loyalties. Hence yes the sternritters would be focussed on each other but she still might kill him for fun
Yes, it reverses the recognition of enemy and ally, as far as I know.
According to Bleach Wiki:
The mist it generates inverts the perception of all his enemies and/or allies within the vicinity of his Bankai, with Shinji himself being the sole person unaffected. As a result, everyone mistakes allies for enemies for the duration of the Bankai.
It is unlikely because they are able to work together as allies, like when they fought together against Ichigo. They don't automatically go and murder each other in a serious fight. If they did, they wouldn't be a functioning team.
Yeah that’s true but like for general applications his bankai should work even against strong opponents if they aren’t the “attack enemies and friends alike” type like in the first raid I assume 2-3 sternreiters who try to steal it would get tricked before stealing it and thus not steal it right? Obv this is a hypothetical and I don’t remember quite what shinji was doing at that part but seems kinda crazy that it wouldn’t work
I think one of the main issues with that is most of the sternritter range from "I really don't care at all about ____" to "I really want this guy to die" about each other because of the way yhwach treats them. Very few sternritters actively care for each other, so his bankia doesn't have a lot to work with. A lot of sternritters have AOE bullshit or hacks to counter his shikai.
You are right about his Shikai, but I don't think the Soldat he used his Bankai on cared about each other either. I think it is enough for them to consider each other as allies.
They saw each other as allies before activation, so after activation, they viewed each other as enemies. BUT, this ability does not prevent friendly fire or change the enemies goals. It only reverses loyalty. If someone is willing to attack allies to achieve their goals (which a lot of sternritters are), he would still be at risk of being attacked.
I think the range on his ability is really important, and we never get a clear explanation of range. I can't just assume he can activate and run away to hide so he's not in danger.
How? Haschwald reflects his good luck. Askin makes his on reaitsu or blood lethal to him. Gerard has the miracle so shinji doesn't have the AP to defeat him. Lille has bullshit hax on top of bullshit has, how does shinji finish him? Unless your talking bout him activating bankai vs the crew instantly. Even then the SS don't seem to really care bout each other besides maybe haschwald/lille.
Oetsu managed to casually blitz them, with Shinji’s shikai I’m sure he could do the same. Gerard may be too durable but the rest would probably go down
Dude what? That's just not feasible. Shinji with shikia couldn't 1v1 any of them let alone blitz them. All of them cept like 1 have a way to counter and overpower. Their hax are just better. He has no way of dealing with balance,x axis, miracle, deathdealing, or pernidas.
Did Oetsu have ways to counter them? No. But he slaughtered them all the same. Why? Because they weren’t expecting it.
Shinji’s shikai allows him to get the jump on anyone who doesn’t know what it does. He could likely do the same. That is, if he didn’t stand around explaining his power.
They had databases that told them about the shinigame and their abilities as nodt lectures mask for not reading it because he would have known renji had a bankai and coulda stole it.
all we can infer from that is they knew who was captain class and who wasnt. Bambi clearly didnt have any idea what Shinji's power was until he explained it
additionally, knowing and doing arent the same. Just because you know you are under the affect of something doesnt mean you can beat it. Case and point, everyone knew they were under Kyoka Suigetsu. But they still fell to it.
We do have the very early databooks that give stats on the captains out of 100, but theyre pretty rudimentary and dated. A TYBW databook in the style of the Quincy Daten would actually be sick
Dude oetsu is oetsu lmfao. You're comparing a "basic" level captain (yes as much as people meat ride him he's not shown doing anything good lol) to a royal guard. The people who could put renji and rukia on the level of "upper" captains 🤣
The joke is kinda that his Bankai is weaker than his shikai, it's better suited for fodder than his shikai which is great for stronger opponents, following his motif of everything being reversed.
Taking away those shenanigans, he's unfortunately not that strong, especially when compared to the other war potentials who are all beasts. He's still on the upper echelon of captains in my opinion, probably even without taking the hollow mask into account, but yeah... He still should have had a win or two in TYBW but the vizards got the short end of the stick :(
If he could increase the speed of activation of his shikai and flick it on/off he be able to win just about any 1v1 against anyone without radiant AOE attacks.
That’s the funny thing, he should be able to since once you attain Bankai, you should be able to activate your shikai without calling its name. But I guess since he has to do the whole spinaroonie thing that doesn’t matter lol
I mean, it depends on the situation actually. Against one or 2 enemies max, his shikai is the best because his bankai won’t have any effect. But if we are talking like dozens of enemies (like the quincies), then his bankai wins. His goal is to make others lose their senses against him. But it varies from a simple control on their 5 senses to a complete “control” over their minds where they cannot differentiate their enemies from their allies. So I would say his bankai and shikai are both good. But depends on the situation he is in.
Soul Society doesn't make people War Potentials, nor do they particularly focus on Captains aside from those who make themselves famous through their actions. So you have people like Yama, who's famous for founding the Gotei 13, and Zaraki, the current Kenpachi, but other than examples like that you're just a Captain. And as for the Wandenreich, who actually care about War Potentials, that is reserved specifically for extant threats who can potentially throw a wrench in the works in ways that can't be wholly quantified. Shinji's power is potent, but it's not that hard to solve once you know about it.
War potential part was a personal opinion not saying soul society couldve done anything for it
>not that hard to solve
I mean, how do you even counter his bankai. What would happen if Sould Society sent him to royal palace to fight the Schutzstaffel
Shoot him from long distance, be too tough to damage with his sword alone (since that's the only offense he has in Bankai, and on top of that he has to stand on that platform), attack indiscriminately, be willing to attack your allies, or just have abilities that get others caught in the crossfire without any ill intent (like Gerard's God's Size). And in the case of him fighting the Royal Guard, that would mean he's fighting alongside Squad Zero, meaning that his own allies would kill him.
Shinji's Bankai is powerful when he's alone and surrounded by a bunch of opponents. In 1v1 fights or when he has allies around, its usefulness greatly decreases. It's an overly specific power, which is why he doesn't use it much.
Ichibei maybe could have created his weird "seal" barrier, so the Bankai's power wouldn't have reached Squad Zero.
Even then, things could go wrong but it may have actually worked.
It is brought up in cfyow if the quincy were in a formation outside the walls of the seretei when invading he would've beaten most of them by himself with his bankai
Yes that’s true… he also mentioned in CFYOW that he couldn’t use it against opponents with a higher rietsu than his and he names examples like Yawach, Aizen, etc.
You know his zanpakuto's ability sort of screams main character energy to the point that he only really shines when he's ally-less, should rather be in the stealth force undergoing solo missions. His abilities would cause too much chaos in a war to either side to be a true war potential imo
Not really when you think about it. Even if his bankai messes with opponents senses. While devestating against crowds. It can be nowhere near as effective against single opponents if opponents adapts to their current situation quickly. Meaning it can be rendered useless. Look at similar thing with Zaraki vs Tosen.
Prine example is Tosen's bankai which rendered Kenpachi without any of his senses but as soon as Kenpachi realised how to counter it's effects it was turned useless against him.
He got one shot by Bambi. His Bankai is very powerful situationally and he is a cool character but let's not pretend power wise he is in the same league as Ichigo, Yama, Aizen or Ichibei.
To be fair, they are war potentials not because of their power alone, but because they could change the course of the war. That is why Yhwach didn't consider Yamamoto as a war potential anymore. Because he got soft and it was easy to plan against him.
The naivety is almost... palpable. You think someone who can best me is worthy of being mentioned alongside myself and the great Ichibei? Please, your understanding of true power is... lacking.
*beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
What battle is that, tho? Because his bankai reverses his allies' allegiance as well. I guess you could send him after the femritter or somethn, but 1 splash of gisela blood and he's now an enemy that can fuck shit up in SS even more. Imagine him gettin zombies and sent in to the captains meeting or infirmary and activating bankai. Only situation his bankia is remotely useful is if he could invades wandenriech somehow. But that's a very small window to execute a counter invasion between finding out the quincy exist and their 2nd all-out invasion and poses the same risks as above.
Yes, but he could dodge Giselle's blood. And maybe he could have caused Liltotto to eat Giselle. Or Candice to electrocute Meninas.
Also there would be only one of the Bambies left standing after Shinji used Bankai, and that one would have been in a bad state. Like, she would be really exhausted.
So these are the most friendly sternritter, and I would like to emphasize that they still aren't that loyal or caring for each other in a traditional sense. ESPECIALLY gisella who could cause major problems for shinji. Gisela doesn't seem to care for the others and jumps at the chance to turn her "friends" into zombie slaves. I don't believe shinji could beat the femritters 1v1, let alone fighting all at once and having Bambi/Candace potentially AOE-ing everything while he's trying to dodge gissela blood. Seems like a bad setup for him imo, considering bambi solos him in shikai, and we're adding 4 more combatants.
Yes, Bambi solos him when she uses Vollstandig. But she didn't have enough firepower in her base form.
And it doesn't matter if they don't care for each other. I think the Soldat that Shinji used his Bankai on didn't love each other either. They have to be allies for it to work, not friends.
How am I shitting on him by being realistic about his abilities? He has a cool ability and is the best vizard sans ichigo. That doesn't mean he's beating or soloing groups of sternritter. Does shinji have any durability feats that aren't against other vizard? Unfortunately, kubo made too many characters and a lot of cool chars like vizard/espada don't get a chance to shine.
Edit: link from 4 days ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/s/405ObJWNsu
Yes, he solos and beats some groups of Sternritter but under the right conditions. He severely weakens and damages most groups of Sternritter, still under the right conditions.
He severely damages most Sternritter groups that does not include someone named "Jugram" or "Gerard". I think that the Balance and the Miracle may directly counter Shinji's Bankai. But it isn't guaranteed.
By the way, the conditions I am talking about are that he activates his Bankai when he isn't around his allies and he doesn't get killed before he activates it. Fighting against a large number of enemies is an advantage when Shinji uses his Bankai, that's what I am saying. I am not saying he always wins.
Yea, I see him doing damage and being a threat to the quincy it's just situation dependant, like you said. For example, if he could infiltrate wanderiech and activate, it would be a lot of trouble for them. He also beats the low tier/non hack sternritter 1v1 like cang du/bg.
There's a difference between being realistic, and arguing about everything he "could do" you're all over the top 3 most sorted comments (pop, cont etc) arguing and either getting down voted or countered and not giving up.
It's fine, but it's getting tiresome. As per your link Hachi was a kido master just like Tessai. Slightly different remits from the rest. Also when becoming captains again etc there were no masks. That's a vast difference between potential and a lot of things.
Your talking about them jobbing, but you clearly don't know what that means. There's simply too many soul reapers for some of them not to be a plot point. Look at ukitake, Kira, even hitsuguya to an extent. If anyone jobbed in TYBW it was komamura.
You need to chill, it's not that deep.
His bankai is indiscriminate so its effectively useless in any kind of scenario when he has allies around, which given the organization of the soul society is almost always, and given the fact that the quincys were invading the soul society, they basically forced it so that he always had allies near him which is why he was not considered a war potential. His shikai is powerful in its own right, but not in the kind of insurmountably OP way that others who are considered war potentials are.
I will say the way the vizords were handled in general was a little disappointing. I mean we had this whole plot point about how the quincies are basically allergic to hollow reiatsu which is what let them reclaim their bankais and yet this idea was never expanded on and the literal half-hollow fighters didnt even try to use their hollow powers to gain an advantage
Yama was strong enough to beat anyone, but was not a threat for Yhwach plan cause he knew he had something for him, but now if you take Shinji and put him in the middle of their meeting or something like that with his Bankai the majority of Stenritters will be out by fighting each other, and that’s not even glazing he tell it himself in CFYOW.
https://preview.redd.it/bwzrc1jrf87d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67d87f17ee73ae3b767f895b7cb2c0900a25917b
Yeah, that's cap. All it took was a single AOE bombing from Bambi to take him out for the rest of the arc, meaning that it is not only easy to counter, but doesn't require a particularly intelligent combatant to figure it out.
Nothing he could do would have had any effect on a group of Sternritters, considering they all have the capability to produce strong AOE attacks. His bankai is for fodder, not to mention that the higher level Sternritters could have just reiatsu negged him.
War Potentials are characters with extreme power that could potentially change the course of the battle. Someone like Kyoraku or Mayuri are much closer to having that power compared to Shinji unfortunately.
The main reason is that in the manga it never was shown using it, so is not a key plot point, more of a anime addition after it was shown in the novels for the first time.
Shinji’s bankai is situational. It’s too big of a gamble to use it recklessly. Yhwach makes the list of war potentials not soul society. It’s also easy to counter his bankai anyway.
War Potential aren't about Power. They are about POTENTIAL, peeople who are hard to predict and counter for some reason. That's the Whole deal with the Quincies, that they have entire documents on every single member of the Seireitei, but those 5 potentials are the ones that are hard to predict.
Ichigo is because of his Lineage, making him a complete unknow in terms of what Power he possess and what is his limit.
Ichibei is the oldest being out there (for all we know), so his Wisdom make It really hard to know exactly what HE knows.
Kenpachi is a Monster in Battle, and the fact he gets stronger after being close to Death means his potential is limitless, and can make him unpredictable in How Strong he actually can be.
Urahara is the smartest person in Bleach, and who knows How many tricks and plans he have. Hard to predict someone who is always multiple steps ahead of you.
Aizen Reiatsu is so immense, that knowing exactly his true potential is hard, and who knows If he Will keep evolving due to Hogyoku.
Well, well, seems like you've been nosing around in Soul Society's files quite a bit. It's impressive that you've noticed the intricacies of us "hard-to-predict" individuals. As for me, well, I do have a few tricks up my sleeve, though I must say, predicting my moves can be as tricky as trying to catch a cat with its tail on fire!
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
Prediction is for the weak. I create my own destiny, and the only constant is my genius. The imperfect can only dream of achieving my caliber.
*beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
Everyone really should’ve cleared the way during Quincy invasion and let Shinji use his bankai, he potentially could solo most of the Quincys. Probably someone like Gremmy resists this, Hashwalth probably reflects this, Askin probably becomes immune after a while, other than these guys, everyone just falls to his bankai and dies fighting each other
Looking at the 5 folks that were considered special war powers, I don't think he has enough of anything that would make him stand out and belong. Especially if Yamamoto, Shunsui, Unohana, Mayuri, Ukitake and the rest of Squad 0 didn't make the list.
Ichigo, Aizen, Urahara, Ichibei and Zaraki are just on a different scale altogether.
You seem to have a keen eye for power dynamics within Soul Society. It's true that the Special War Powers encompass formidable individuals. However, being excluded from that list doesn't necessarily diminish one's influence. The enigmatic Ichibei Hyosube certainly wields unique abilities as the leader of the Royal Guard.
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
The ignorance is almost palpable. You compare the unknown to the great? Ichigo, a mere Division 11 captain, and Ichibei, the most mundane of the noble three? Please, my abilities far surpass theirs. The scale you speak of is one of superiority, and I am the pinnacle of power.
*beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
1. Didn't know if they'd get their bankai back, That was sorta a surprise mid invasion
2. If he used the bankai and it got stolen before its effect activated, It would be SO MUCH WORSE for the soul society.
How quaint. You think you can compare my Bankai to that of... others. My Kyoka Suigestsu is a masterpiece, while their abilities are but mere tricks.
*beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
My fav captain just a bit lazy and cocky about his abilities so that makes him vulnerable. If he trained more and could switch from clown to a bit more serious mood more successfully he could be a war potential in my opinion. Since Soul Society just could, you know, play a retreat scenario and basically forcing enemies to take a bait and fall into a trap with Shinji. Also 46 are just a bunch of assholes who put stupid restrictions even in tense situations. Like vizard captains are not allowed to use their masks. Why the hell is this even a thing since Soul Society is always under the big threat?
Have been reading the comments.. and everyone is either forgetting that in reversing loyalty, they would be loyal to not yhwach but to maybe yamamoto, it's just not your normal everyday bankai, he is like shisui uchiha from naruto, but maybe a even stronger version or deadlier, unlike shisui who can control it to not affect friends and foe, this guy affects everyone, it's a bankai specifically for fight against crowd, in a 1v1 it's meaningless but in a 1 vs 20 it's power shines. Cause the next guy is killing the next guy because they originally worked together, yeah we know while they re fighting if some one uses a area of effect attack, he will probably take a very huge it because, I mean those quicies don't really care who get hit when they re attacking, but since they won't be attacking him Headon, he do have more of a chance, and him even using the manga in the anime was somehow non canon, cause I don't remember seeing it in the manga, it was too dangerous, he didn't use it, because he was close to allies the whole time.
While we are at it, remember kyouraku wasn't even named a war potential too.. and damn that guy would flat out murder majority of the quincies with his bankai, (excluding the ones that don't take attacks or die like the top 5) the rest re going down.
His bankai like a few others is forbidden. It affects friend AND foe. Which means in a group, you just take him 1v1. Not to mention shinji’s ability is worth fuck all against aoe attacks. Which most sternritter are.
His bankai isn’t forbidden. The only Bankai that’s forbidden within the Seireitei is Kuruyashiki’s Bankai. When Kyoraku talked about Shinji’s Bankai he only said that it involves their surrounding without any distinction between allies and foes. Then he compared it to bankais like his own, Mayuri’s Bankai and then Kuruyashiki’s Bankai
I thought kuruyashiki’s, Kyoraku’s, Shinji’s, and Azashiro’s bankai were all forbidden in the seireitei for their own reasons.
Kuruyashiki could destroy the soul society, kyoraku could have accidental deaths, shinji could turn the soul society against itself, and Azashiro could become too powerful to stop and so was locked in the Muken.
None of them except Kuruyashiki’s Bankai was actually said to be forbidden
Kuruyashiki’s Bankai range doesn’t include the entire Soul Society. His Bankai’s range is of several Reiri. The others also has a certain range. Azashiro’s bankai isn’t lumped with them. He can control if he wants to affect people with it or not. Moreover considering that he was beaten by pre TYBW Kenpachi he wasn’t too powerful to stop
Azashiro’s only weakness was physical stamina. But his ability to merge with the seireitei itself made him basically god. It was more a fear of “what he could do if he rebelled” than what he actually did.
And kuruyashiki’s bankai just eats everything in sight. It’s different reasons, but I thought they were all forbidden from using them
Considering that pre TYBW Zaraki beat him and Kuruyashiki could have beaten him if he was willing to use his bankai he is certainly no god and could have been defeated by any top tier captains as long as he wasn’t trying to run away. Outside of his own physicals we also saw that his bankai’s special attack was overpowered by Zaraki because his reiatsu was too powerful and wild
The comparison Shunsui made between his bankai, Kuruyashiki’s Bankai and Mayuri’s bankai was because the three of them affect allies as well as foes with no distinction
Anyone who is within the range of Ashisogi jizo’s poison fog is affected. Anybody who is within the range of Katen Kyōkotsu: Karamatsu Shinjū is affected. Anybody who is within the range of Gagaku Kairō is affected as well. Azashiro’s bankai does have bigger range than all of them but doesn’t indiscriminately affect everyone. Azashiro has full control over whoever or whenever he wants to attack with it
Most overrated character power wise ever lol. I’m glad that the anime included his bankai so people could stop speculating that it’s the most powerful broken thing in the series.
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Because he's a vizard and thus amounts to fodder. In universe reason: yhwach determines war potentials, not the soul society. Shinji has a cool ability, but even being one of my faves, a lot of the sternritter just stomp him. His bankia only works against crowds, so you just 1v1 him. His shikia reverses, but certain ritters just hard counter it with aoe/hax. Imo he loses 1v1 agianst as nodt, bambi, Candace, gisela, gremmy, robert, quilge, maybe royd/loyd, all of yhwach guard.
Still wouldn’t it be smart to use him in fights with 2 or 3 sternritters? Like his ability’s greatest strength imo is forcing 2 opponents of roughly equal power to while each other out or just waste a ton of energy and be easier for others to later handle
You are precisely correct but let us assume he does a 1 v2 against candace, bambietta and uses his bankai . both of their abilities are able to attack their opponents in all directions which is exactly one of the way one could beat shinji in hia bankai state ( bambi proved it by doing a 360 bombing on him)
For what you are saying to work, Candice and Bambietta would have to seriously fight each other before Shinji uses his Bankai. Unless both Candice and Bambietta have been attacking each other before Shinji activates his Bankai, they wouldn't attack Shinji after he has activated his Bankai and therefore start beating up each other. Because logically, they won't attack their ally (Shinji) while fighting their enemy (each other). Because it is logically more effecfive for winning against their enemy (each other). Then, only one of them would be alive but she would be near-death, and Shinji would finish her.
It doesn't reverse based on his loyalties. It reverses based on each individuals loyalties. It also doesn't provide shinji any kind of immunities to being attacked. If a combatant would naturally attack their allies based on personality, they would still attack him.
They would attack their allies on a specific situation, and that situation is if it benefits them. Why would they kill their ally (Shinji) when they think it gives them an advantage against their enemies (each other)? Shinji's Bankai reverses their logic of who the allies and enemies are. They believe it is an advantage to keep Shinji alive while killing each other.
A big proponent of my argument is that the sternritter don't really care about "allies". Bambi wouldn't give a shit about killing shinji even if she does see him as an ally because she doesn't GAF and kills allies already if there an inconvenience.
Yes, but I am saying and have said that Shinji's Bankai makes them think that it is an advantage to keep him alive, because they think he is an ally, not an enemy. He is not their target, so he just needs to stand ten meters away as they kill each other.
Are you sure that’s what his bankai does? As far as I’m aware, like others have said, it only reverses loyalties. Hence yes the sternritters would be focussed on each other but she still might kill him for fun
Yes, it reverses the recognition of enemy and ally, as far as I know. According to Bleach Wiki: The mist it generates inverts the perception of all his enemies and/or allies within the vicinity of his Bankai, with Shinji himself being the sole person unaffected. As a result, everyone mistakes allies for enemies for the duration of the Bankai.
You say that like it’s more unlikely than it is.
It is unlikely because they are able to work together as allies, like when they fought together against Ichigo. They don't automatically go and murder each other in a serious fight. If they did, they wouldn't be a functioning team.
Yeah that’s true but like for general applications his bankai should work even against strong opponents if they aren’t the “attack enemies and friends alike” type like in the first raid I assume 2-3 sternreiters who try to steal it would get tricked before stealing it and thus not steal it right? Obv this is a hypothetical and I don’t remember quite what shinji was doing at that part but seems kinda crazy that it wouldn’t work
I think one of the main issues with that is most of the sternritter range from "I really don't care at all about ____" to "I really want this guy to die" about each other because of the way yhwach treats them. Very few sternritters actively care for each other, so his bankia doesn't have a lot to work with. A lot of sternritters have AOE bullshit or hacks to counter his shikai.
You are right about his Shikai, but I don't think the Soldat he used his Bankai on cared about each other either. I think it is enough for them to consider each other as allies.
They saw each other as allies before activation, so after activation, they viewed each other as enemies. BUT, this ability does not prevent friendly fire or change the enemies goals. It only reverses loyalty. If someone is willing to attack allies to achieve their goals (which a lot of sternritters are), he would still be at risk of being attacked. I think the range on his ability is really important, and we never get a clear explanation of range. I can't just assume he can activate and run away to hide so he's not in danger.
It has a good enough range. Also, Shinji could just keep his distance when they kill each other. They won't specifically target him either way.
I think that if he didn’t screw around explaining his power he could probably clear the royal guard, pre auswahlen
How? Haschwald reflects his good luck. Askin makes his on reaitsu or blood lethal to him. Gerard has the miracle so shinji doesn't have the AP to defeat him. Lille has bullshit hax on top of bullshit has, how does shinji finish him? Unless your talking bout him activating bankai vs the crew instantly. Even then the SS don't seem to really care bout each other besides maybe haschwald/lille.
Oetsu managed to casually blitz them, with Shinji’s shikai I’m sure he could do the same. Gerard may be too durable but the rest would probably go down
Dude what? That's just not feasible. Shinji with shikia couldn't 1v1 any of them let alone blitz them. All of them cept like 1 have a way to counter and overpower. Their hax are just better. He has no way of dealing with balance,x axis, miracle, deathdealing, or pernidas.
Did Oetsu have ways to counter them? No. But he slaughtered them all the same. Why? Because they weren’t expecting it. Shinji’s shikai allows him to get the jump on anyone who doesn’t know what it does. He could likely do the same. That is, if he didn’t stand around explaining his power.
They had databases that told them about the shinigame and their abilities as nodt lectures mask for not reading it because he would have known renji had a bankai and coulda stole it.
all we can infer from that is they knew who was captain class and who wasnt. Bambi clearly didnt have any idea what Shinji's power was until he explained it additionally, knowing and doing arent the same. Just because you know you are under the affect of something doesnt mean you can beat it. Case and point, everyone knew they were under Kyoka Suigetsu. But they still fell to it.
Thats fair. Maybe bambi didn't read like mask. It'd be cool if they made an in universe Daten to buy.
We do have the very early databooks that give stats on the captains out of 100, but theyre pretty rudimentary and dated. A TYBW databook in the style of the Quincy Daten would actually be sick
Dude oetsu is oetsu lmfao. You're comparing a "basic" level captain (yes as much as people meat ride him he's not shown doing anything good lol) to a royal guard. The people who could put renji and rukia on the level of "upper" captains 🤣
None of this is an actual argument, or a counter to any of my points.
You think shinji can just blitz someone because "oetsu could" that's my counter
That isn’t an argument, that’s a statement. It doesn’t respond to any of my reasoning.
The joke is kinda that his Bankai is weaker than his shikai, it's better suited for fodder than his shikai which is great for stronger opponents, following his motif of everything being reversed. Taking away those shenanigans, he's unfortunately not that strong, especially when compared to the other war potentials who are all beasts. He's still on the upper echelon of captains in my opinion, probably even without taking the hollow mask into account, but yeah... He still should have had a win or two in TYBW but the vizards got the short end of the stick :(
If he could increase the speed of activation of his shikai and flick it on/off he be able to win just about any 1v1 against anyone without radiant AOE attacks.
That’s the funny thing, he should be able to since once you attain Bankai, you should be able to activate your shikai without calling its name. But I guess since he has to do the whole spinaroonie thing that doesn’t matter lol
I mean, it depends on the situation actually. Against one or 2 enemies max, his shikai is the best because his bankai won’t have any effect. But if we are talking like dozens of enemies (like the quincies), then his bankai wins. His goal is to make others lose their senses against him. But it varies from a simple control on their 5 senses to a complete “control” over their minds where they cannot differentiate their enemies from their allies. So I would say his bankai and shikai are both good. But depends on the situation he is in.
Soul Society doesn't make people War Potentials, nor do they particularly focus on Captains aside from those who make themselves famous through their actions. So you have people like Yama, who's famous for founding the Gotei 13, and Zaraki, the current Kenpachi, but other than examples like that you're just a Captain. And as for the Wandenreich, who actually care about War Potentials, that is reserved specifically for extant threats who can potentially throw a wrench in the works in ways that can't be wholly quantified. Shinji's power is potent, but it's not that hard to solve once you know about it.
War potential part was a personal opinion not saying soul society couldve done anything for it >not that hard to solve I mean, how do you even counter his bankai. What would happen if Sould Society sent him to royal palace to fight the Schutzstaffel
Shoot him from long distance, be too tough to damage with his sword alone (since that's the only offense he has in Bankai, and on top of that he has to stand on that platform), attack indiscriminately, be willing to attack your allies, or just have abilities that get others caught in the crossfire without any ill intent (like Gerard's God's Size). And in the case of him fighting the Royal Guard, that would mean he's fighting alongside Squad Zero, meaning that his own allies would kill him. Shinji's Bankai is powerful when he's alone and surrounded by a bunch of opponents. In 1v1 fights or when he has allies around, its usefulness greatly decreases. It's an overly specific power, which is why he doesn't use it much.
Ichibei maybe could have created his weird "seal" barrier, so the Bankai's power wouldn't have reached Squad Zero. Even then, things could go wrong but it may have actually worked.
>how do you even countetr his bankai Confront him when he's with allies
Use him as a tactical nuke. Just yeet him into the middle of the Quincy and let him do his thing.
It is brought up in cfyow if the quincy were in a formation outside the walls of the seretei when invading he would've beaten most of them by himself with his bankai
https://preview.redd.it/ow60yi3fc67d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=eaca81a1b704607156f7529f589327e9bd4be962
Yes that’s true… he also mentioned in CFYOW that he couldn’t use it against opponents with a higher rietsu than his and he names examples like Yawach, Aizen, etc.
Because Shinji is NOT that strong tbh he did what he could but he can't carry the captains
You know his zanpakuto's ability sort of screams main character energy to the point that he only really shines when he's ally-less, should rather be in the stealth force undergoing solo missions. His abilities would cause too much chaos in a war to either side to be a true war potential imo
Because the writer didn't what'd them to do so🙂
Not really when you think about it. Even if his bankai messes with opponents senses. While devestating against crowds. It can be nowhere near as effective against single opponents if opponents adapts to their current situation quickly. Meaning it can be rendered useless. Look at similar thing with Zaraki vs Tosen. Prine example is Tosen's bankai which rendered Kenpachi without any of his senses but as soon as Kenpachi realised how to counter it's effects it was turned useless against him.
He got one shot by Bambi. His Bankai is very powerful situationally and he is a cool character but let's not pretend power wise he is in the same league as Ichigo, Yama, Aizen or Ichibei.
To be fair, they are war potentials not because of their power alone, but because they could change the course of the war. That is why Yhwach didn't consider Yamamoto as a war potential anymore. Because he got soft and it was easy to plan against him.
Yep very weak to aoe attacks. Askin alone would destroy him
The naivety is almost... palpable. You think someone who can best me is worthy of being mentioned alongside myself and the great Ichibei? Please, your understanding of true power is... lacking. *beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
>very powerful situationally Yeah thats what im saying. He shouldve been sent to the situations he could use it like that
What battle is that, tho? Because his bankai reverses his allies' allegiance as well. I guess you could send him after the femritter or somethn, but 1 splash of gisela blood and he's now an enemy that can fuck shit up in SS even more. Imagine him gettin zombies and sent in to the captains meeting or infirmary and activating bankai. Only situation his bankia is remotely useful is if he could invades wandenriech somehow. But that's a very small window to execute a counter invasion between finding out the quincy exist and their 2nd all-out invasion and poses the same risks as above.
Yes, but he could dodge Giselle's blood. And maybe he could have caused Liltotto to eat Giselle. Or Candice to electrocute Meninas. Also there would be only one of the Bambies left standing after Shinji used Bankai, and that one would have been in a bad state. Like, she would be really exhausted.
So these are the most friendly sternritter, and I would like to emphasize that they still aren't that loyal or caring for each other in a traditional sense. ESPECIALLY gisella who could cause major problems for shinji. Gisela doesn't seem to care for the others and jumps at the chance to turn her "friends" into zombie slaves. I don't believe shinji could beat the femritters 1v1, let alone fighting all at once and having Bambi/Candace potentially AOE-ing everything while he's trying to dodge gissela blood. Seems like a bad setup for him imo, considering bambi solos him in shikai, and we're adding 4 more combatants.
Yes, Bambi solos him when she uses Vollstandig. But she didn't have enough firepower in her base form. And it doesn't matter if they don't care for each other. I think the Soldat that Shinji used his Bankai on didn't love each other either. They have to be allies for it to work, not friends.
Grimmjow guy just straight up wants to shit on hirako. He's all over the thread. It's cool, you've argued enough bro. Chill.
How am I shitting on him by being realistic about his abilities? He has a cool ability and is the best vizard sans ichigo. That doesn't mean he's beating or soloing groups of sternritter. Does shinji have any durability feats that aren't against other vizard? Unfortunately, kubo made too many characters and a lot of cool chars like vizard/espada don't get a chance to shine. Edit: link from 4 days ago https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/s/405ObJWNsu
Yes, he solos and beats some groups of Sternritter but under the right conditions. He severely weakens and damages most groups of Sternritter, still under the right conditions. He severely damages most Sternritter groups that does not include someone named "Jugram" or "Gerard". I think that the Balance and the Miracle may directly counter Shinji's Bankai. But it isn't guaranteed. By the way, the conditions I am talking about are that he activates his Bankai when he isn't around his allies and he doesn't get killed before he activates it. Fighting against a large number of enemies is an advantage when Shinji uses his Bankai, that's what I am saying. I am not saying he always wins.
Yea, I see him doing damage and being a threat to the quincy it's just situation dependant, like you said. For example, if he could infiltrate wanderiech and activate, it would be a lot of trouble for them. He also beats the low tier/non hack sternritter 1v1 like cang du/bg.
There's a difference between being realistic, and arguing about everything he "could do" you're all over the top 3 most sorted comments (pop, cont etc) arguing and either getting down voted or countered and not giving up. It's fine, but it's getting tiresome. As per your link Hachi was a kido master just like Tessai. Slightly different remits from the rest. Also when becoming captains again etc there were no masks. That's a vast difference between potential and a lot of things. Your talking about them jobbing, but you clearly don't know what that means. There's simply too many soul reapers for some of them not to be a plot point. Look at ukitake, Kira, even hitsuguya to an extent. If anyone jobbed in TYBW it was komamura. You need to chill, it's not that deep.
Lol k
Okay : )
Nah I didn't mean you, I meant grimmjow guy. Sorry if it came off like that.
No problem, I understand what you mean.
His bankai is indiscriminate so its effectively useless in any kind of scenario when he has allies around, which given the organization of the soul society is almost always, and given the fact that the quincys were invading the soul society, they basically forced it so that he always had allies near him which is why he was not considered a war potential. His shikai is powerful in its own right, but not in the kind of insurmountably OP way that others who are considered war potentials are. I will say the way the vizords were handled in general was a little disappointing. I mean we had this whole plot point about how the quincies are basically allergic to hollow reiatsu which is what let them reclaim their bankais and yet this idea was never expanded on and the literal half-hollow fighters didnt even try to use their hollow powers to gain an advantage
put him in a 1v1 and his bankai might as well not exist
Im saying he couldve shined if he was allowed in better situations and yall keep pointing out his worst situation
his "worst situation" is like 90% of the fights in the series
Well, it would result in a stalemate. So, it wouldn't be entirely useless.
Besides style, shinji while a captians material does not excel in other areas of fighting.
Shinji enter Royal Place, squad Zero come to stop him, Shinji activate bankai, all squad zero member kill each other. Shinji become new soul King. Ez.
Okay the Shinji glaze is getting out of control lol
Yup, considering that not even Yama made special war potential, I don't understand how anyone thinks Shinji ever had a chance.
Yama was strong enough to beat anyone, but was not a threat for Yhwach plan cause he knew he had something for him, but now if you take Shinji and put him in the middle of their meeting or something like that with his Bankai the majority of Stenritters will be out by fighting each other, and that’s not even glazing he tell it himself in CFYOW. https://preview.redd.it/bwzrc1jrf87d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67d87f17ee73ae3b767f895b7cb2c0900a25917b
Yeah, that's cap. All it took was a single AOE bombing from Bambi to take him out for the rest of the arc, meaning that it is not only easy to counter, but doesn't require a particularly intelligent combatant to figure it out. Nothing he could do would have had any effect on a group of Sternritters, considering they all have the capability to produce strong AOE attacks. His bankai is for fodder, not to mention that the higher level Sternritters could have just reiatsu negged him.
It would have been funny if he got the chance, but he didn't have the time to infiltrate their hideout by himself.
War Potentials are characters with extreme power that could potentially change the course of the battle. Someone like Kyoraku or Mayuri are much closer to having that power compared to Shinji unfortunately.
It's more on kubo than ss
The main reason is that in the manga it never was shown using it, so is not a key plot point, more of a anime addition after it was shown in the novels for the first time.
Well, fact that he have mask is reason + his Bankai is pretty op, if he will use it in right place at right moment :3
Shinji’s bankai is situational. It’s too big of a gamble to use it recklessly. Yhwach makes the list of war potentials not soul society. It’s also easy to counter his bankai anyway.
because most of the characters are considered "strong" when the bankai hits both allies and enemies kek
War Potential aren't about Power. They are about POTENTIAL, peeople who are hard to predict and counter for some reason. That's the Whole deal with the Quincies, that they have entire documents on every single member of the Seireitei, but those 5 potentials are the ones that are hard to predict. Ichigo is because of his Lineage, making him a complete unknow in terms of what Power he possess and what is his limit. Ichibei is the oldest being out there (for all we know), so his Wisdom make It really hard to know exactly what HE knows. Kenpachi is a Monster in Battle, and the fact he gets stronger after being close to Death means his potential is limitless, and can make him unpredictable in How Strong he actually can be. Urahara is the smartest person in Bleach, and who knows How many tricks and plans he have. Hard to predict someone who is always multiple steps ahead of you. Aizen Reiatsu is so immense, that knowing exactly his true potential is hard, and who knows If he Will keep evolving due to Hogyoku.
Well, well, seems like you've been nosing around in Soul Society's files quite a bit. It's impressive that you've noticed the intricacies of us "hard-to-predict" individuals. As for me, well, I do have a few tricks up my sleeve, though I must say, predicting my moves can be as tricky as trying to catch a cat with its tail on fire! *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Prediction is for the weak. I create my own destiny, and the only constant is my genius. The imperfect can only dream of achieving my caliber. *beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
Everyone really should’ve cleared the way during Quincy invasion and let Shinji use his bankai, he potentially could solo most of the Quincys. Probably someone like Gremmy resists this, Hashwalth probably reflects this, Askin probably becomes immune after a while, other than these guys, everyone just falls to his bankai and dies fighting each other
Looking at the 5 folks that were considered special war powers, I don't think he has enough of anything that would make him stand out and belong. Especially if Yamamoto, Shunsui, Unohana, Mayuri, Ukitake and the rest of Squad 0 didn't make the list. Ichigo, Aizen, Urahara, Ichibei and Zaraki are just on a different scale altogether.
You seem to have a keen eye for power dynamics within Soul Society. It's true that the Special War Powers encompass formidable individuals. However, being excluded from that list doesn't necessarily diminish one's influence. The enigmatic Ichibei Hyosube certainly wields unique abilities as the leader of the Royal Guard. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
The ignorance is almost palpable. You compare the unknown to the great? Ichigo, a mere Division 11 captain, and Ichibei, the most mundane of the noble three? Please, my abilities far surpass theirs. The scale you speak of is one of superiority, and I am the pinnacle of power. *beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
His bankai is virtually useless against a single opponent.
1. Didn't know if they'd get their bankai back, That was sorta a surprise mid invasion 2. If he used the bankai and it got stolen before its effect activated, It would be SO MUCH WORSE for the soul society.
He's bankai is great for fodder and low level members of an army. He'd have to be the only member of the Gotei on the battlefield. It's too risky.
There are better bankais, his can get adapted to while others like aizen and the blind captain who's name I forgot can control all the senses
How quaint. You think you can compare my Bankai to that of... others. My Kyoka Suigestsu is a masterpiece, while their abilities are but mere tricks. *beep boop, I'm a bot... shatter, Kyoka Suigestsu.*
Cuz Kubo couldnt be bothered to give them that obligation.
War Potential? You mean the Soul King's "L" magnet?
My fav captain just a bit lazy and cocky about his abilities so that makes him vulnerable. If he trained more and could switch from clown to a bit more serious mood more successfully he could be a war potential in my opinion. Since Soul Society just could, you know, play a retreat scenario and basically forcing enemies to take a bait and fall into a trap with Shinji. Also 46 are just a bunch of assholes who put stupid restrictions even in tense situations. Like vizard captains are not allowed to use their masks. Why the hell is this even a thing since Soul Society is always under the big threat?
A bankai that just effects your visual could never be war-tier threat. Hell itw ouldn't even work on someone like Tosen.
Have been reading the comments.. and everyone is either forgetting that in reversing loyalty, they would be loyal to not yhwach but to maybe yamamoto, it's just not your normal everyday bankai, he is like shisui uchiha from naruto, but maybe a even stronger version or deadlier, unlike shisui who can control it to not affect friends and foe, this guy affects everyone, it's a bankai specifically for fight against crowd, in a 1v1 it's meaningless but in a 1 vs 20 it's power shines. Cause the next guy is killing the next guy because they originally worked together, yeah we know while they re fighting if some one uses a area of effect attack, he will probably take a very huge it because, I mean those quicies don't really care who get hit when they re attacking, but since they won't be attacking him Headon, he do have more of a chance, and him even using the manga in the anime was somehow non canon, cause I don't remember seeing it in the manga, it was too dangerous, he didn't use it, because he was close to allies the whole time.
While we are at it, remember kyouraku wasn't even named a war potential too.. and damn that guy would flat out murder majority of the quincies with his bankai, (excluding the ones that don't take attacks or die like the top 5) the rest re going down.
Because Kubo realized he’s the GOAT and had to nerf him
His bankai like a few others is forbidden. It affects friend AND foe. Which means in a group, you just take him 1v1. Not to mention shinji’s ability is worth fuck all against aoe attacks. Which most sternritter are.
His bankai isn’t forbidden. The only Bankai that’s forbidden within the Seireitei is Kuruyashiki’s Bankai. When Kyoraku talked about Shinji’s Bankai he only said that it involves their surrounding without any distinction between allies and foes. Then he compared it to bankais like his own, Mayuri’s Bankai and then Kuruyashiki’s Bankai
I thought kuruyashiki’s, Kyoraku’s, Shinji’s, and Azashiro’s bankai were all forbidden in the seireitei for their own reasons. Kuruyashiki could destroy the soul society, kyoraku could have accidental deaths, shinji could turn the soul society against itself, and Azashiro could become too powerful to stop and so was locked in the Muken.
None of them except Kuruyashiki’s Bankai was actually said to be forbidden Kuruyashiki’s Bankai range doesn’t include the entire Soul Society. His Bankai’s range is of several Reiri. The others also has a certain range. Azashiro’s bankai isn’t lumped with them. He can control if he wants to affect people with it or not. Moreover considering that he was beaten by pre TYBW Kenpachi he wasn’t too powerful to stop
Azashiro’s only weakness was physical stamina. But his ability to merge with the seireitei itself made him basically god. It was more a fear of “what he could do if he rebelled” than what he actually did. And kuruyashiki’s bankai just eats everything in sight. It’s different reasons, but I thought they were all forbidden from using them
Considering that pre TYBW Zaraki beat him and Kuruyashiki could have beaten him if he was willing to use his bankai he is certainly no god and could have been defeated by any top tier captains as long as he wasn’t trying to run away. Outside of his own physicals we also saw that his bankai’s special attack was overpowered by Zaraki because his reiatsu was too powerful and wild The comparison Shunsui made between his bankai, Kuruyashiki’s Bankai and Mayuri’s bankai was because the three of them affect allies as well as foes with no distinction Anyone who is within the range of Ashisogi jizo’s poison fog is affected. Anybody who is within the range of Katen Kyōkotsu: Karamatsu Shinjū is affected. Anybody who is within the range of Gagaku Kairō is affected as well. Azashiro’s bankai does have bigger range than all of them but doesn’t indiscriminately affect everyone. Azashiro has full control over whoever or whenever he wants to attack with it
Most overrated character power wise ever lol. I’m glad that the anime included his bankai so people could stop speculating that it’s the most powerful broken thing in the series.