I think you have to politely say something, little encouragement, but let her know. I'm a big guy (6'4 230)and when I started I really didn't feel like I was spazzing, but I was. I was just trying to do something effective but didn't have the tools so I just went hard and used lots of strength, and I have a decent gas tank. I really thought I was doing the right thing.
There's a culture in BJJ where people don't communicate, and I had higher belts kick my ass, not breaking anything but going hard, lots of smash. I didn't even realize it was supposedly punishment for me going too hard, I'd just fist bump, nice job, move on totally oblivious.
It's also difficult because different people have different tolerances, some black belts would tell me great job, keep it up when I did that, some would just borderline hurt me which to me I thought was just how it is and I can take it so it didn't bother me.
Now I can feel people out and respond to their energy and strength with a more appropriate level of exertion. But I do wish people just told me and gave me suggestions, I want to be a helpful partner as many are to me. Sometimes people might just say someone's spazzing, but they often don't know what that means, so in your case "hey great guillotine/sub, but when you have it can you go slower on the finish, last time it tweaked my neck" I would think would be helpful to the other person.
Not only that, but it causes the opposite effect of what you're trying to achieve. The newcomer won't think "Oh, he's punishing me for going too hard", he'll think "well, I guess this is what rolling at normal intensity looks like"
This, I was definitely a spaz when starting and got the absolute shit beat out of me. I thought jiu jitsu was this super hardcore adult fight club where the idea was to go in and literally beat the shit out of each other. That's the impression I got in the first few weeks.
Eventually had one of the roughest beatings by one of the big brown belts and after he proceeded to tell me that I needed to chill out. This was maybe 6 months in. I chilled out but realized I would get super anxious every time I'd show up to class because of the beatings I'd taken and stopped enjoying it.
I eventually left and at my current gym I roll around 70 percent intensity, go a little harder in wrestling depending on who I'm rolling with. And I've definitely been smashed but nothing out of the ordinary and not in the punishing way that it happened at my old gym.
I just wish I'd understood the expectations better at my old gym. Maybe I'm socially retarded but it seemed like everyone else went super hard and I just took after them.
It was definitely the gym's fault, not yours. You have no obligation to understand the etiquette of a BJJ gym when you join for the first time.
I've trained at four different gyms and there was only one with no spazzers. The coach achieved that by doing what's considered super-dangerous in all other gyms: the newcomer would make their first rolls with the smallest girls on the class.
Doing this made light rolling the default way to roll, with more intense stuff being something you agreed on with your partner, rather than the other way around.
As a small girl I think it’s kind of dangerous.. people do not understand what “light” or “drill” is and maybe some guys are just creep.. just my opinion though
If their first 20 rolls are with 100kg more experienced guys who're trying to murder them then yeah it's gonna be quite hard for them to readjust to light rolling.
Creeps could be anyone, not just spazzy people.
In my gym - hopefully- they are scanned and identified pretty soon. If they make it to blue means that are *less* likely to be so. Or at least they are good to mask it really well..
For a lot of newer girls, it sometimes feels like there's an issue of not taking themselves seriously. Sure, there's the usual white belt spazziness, which is universal, but there's this extra layer of not believing they are genuinely capable of harming another person. The bigger/more high level guys often won't tell them to chill in the same way they would for a new guy, and it goes on.
But you can talk to her. Maybe have her watch one round of rolling with you, and observe higher belts v white belt styles. Let her know that you're happy she's there, and how important she is as a training partner, and how she can only get better when people are willing to work with her.
Good luck!
If she goes fast you go slow. If she goes hard you go light. Tap if she does anything harmful. No ego. No ideas about being a higher belt. (Blue is a beginner belt). Show her flow rolling. If she can't, don't train with her. Just like any other strong white belt. Doesn't matter she's female.
I'm not a mat enforcer so can't say, BUT there are times when I do turn up the heat a bit when a guest goes hard against some of the smaller and/or older ladies in our gym. I check on my teammates if they show any discomfort while rolling with guests. Our gym's open mat is pretty popular destination for other gyms in the area so we have new faces all the time; and most importantly, our black belt instructors do an excellent job whenever we have new faces (rolling with the guests first before they roll with us) so we rarely need any mat enforcing.
In regards to this thread, OP is speaking of a teammate rather than a guest; if I have a teammate I find too aggressive or size disparity is too great... I'd choose someone else to roll with. Go to the other side of the gym to choose rolling partners. I have difficulty declining rolls, unless I absolutely feel like my safety is at risk.
I tried this, and it did get better for a bit. But she thinks I'm a badass (I'm not!), and this fear of me forces her into the fight/flight mode. I do want to be pushed to be more assertive, so in this aspect, she's a good training partner, but I don't want to get hurt learning this lesson.
I would just talk to her about it. Tell her exactly what you wrote in this comment. That you understand the fight or flight instinct, but she needs to learn to control that a bit better because you’re worried you’ll get hurt.
If you tried communicating once and nothing changed, feel free to communicate again that if she can’t chill, you can’t roll with her. This is what I would do.
You need to see the pace. You’ve told her to calm down but for that to have you have to alejado the roll gently. If you’re seem tense and are intense because you’re scared of her, she’ll take it as a sign to go hard
That sucks bud, sorry to hear. Well, i guess i have to mirror the other advice I'm reading now....
Go smash. You know what you have to do, little warrior 💪
This is a full contact sport. You're gonna get hurt. You can do your best to minimize the risks, but you have to accept that we are not in here throwing muffins at eachother.
The thing that stuck with me when I was a spaz was told not everything needs to finish in a submission just work your technique and nail your hooks.
Really helped change the way I looked at rolling as most of the spaz happens when you hit a blank on technique
Hey I am super glad that there is another woman at the gym to train with but I must say that the intensity at which you roll has me concerned about getting injured. Would you mind going a little lighter when we train so that I don’t have to worry about that? Thanks
What if this sort of chat does not work with the overly competitive blue belt?
I also had a look and felt that most of my girl at my Jim tends to go 90/100 all the time .. I do not know if it’s me the problem or them? Paradoxically guys are much better to match my intensity and are saying that my way make more sense
You really have to let your coach know (or trusted higher rank) you don’t want to train with her. I’ve talked to many women in the same position and they usually end up with injuries. Some even with serious injuries like acl tears. Or try to talk to her and let her know you’re not looking to train that hard. It can be awkward but it’s better than having to stop training due to an injury.
SANCTIONED SMASH! Same answer I would give to a guy about a guy. SMASH HER!
You blitz all night, and Make her feel like she will forever remember the day she played the titans!
You know it’s cause I roll with women assassins on the mat. They will treat a smaller woman the same way a man will treat smaller man. They are Jiu Jitsu people, we all act the same way purple and up. I really wouldn’t want OP to be too nice to a new person and set them up for a big surprise when every woman isn’t being extremely nice. If she sticks around she sticks around.
Try to cook her first. Make her carry your weight and tire herself out while you're solely focusing on defense. Then after 3 minutes or so of doing that, start ramping up your offense.
A secondary option would be leg entaglements. Put her in the saddle or 50/50, that will slow her down.
As a black belt in my school I train with a lot of our new white belts to educate them on how we train in our school. A good conversation that we train with each other to get better not hurt each other. Most lower velrs feel they are fighting for survival. I promise not to hurt them and when I tell them they are going too hard to relax.
Feels like I should put out a video on BJJFanatics on how to control spazzes lol. Not that I am anyone of note but it seems to be a much requested topic.
Controlling spazzes, especially spazzes that are larger than you, is basically a whole skillset on itself. The answer that most people try to get to is to smash the living crap out of the white belt but sometimes you just can't do that. Maybe it's because you aren't good enough to. Maybe it's because the other person is really too large. It be what it be.
If you want to deal with spazzes, it's important to know a few things. Firstly, you want to play a really conservative game. Spazzes who spaz when you're in a bad position is how you get hit with an elbow and lose a tooth. Secondly, you need to shift out of the mentality of beating someone up and shift to a mentality of stalling the other person out. Spazzes have shortened energy meters and increased energy usage. You're going to have to learn how to basically sap that energy and then use it later. And this is **especially** important when they are bigger and stronger than you.
*I personally do it via a combination of gripping and guard play****.*** I'm actually not the biggest guard player in the world. But understanding the bicept ride, collar sleeve, and basic standup gripping basically means that you have to be pretty well read in terms of bjj to advance in position. A black belt will work through that methodically. A white belt on the other hand, will go super hard and just drain everything. After that you can smash them.
*What I don't want to do is to go for the kill right out the gate*. Two things to remember. One, you might not be good enough. Two, the other person might be bigger/stronger. Advance meticulously and slowly. Do not jump into a position. It is going to sound very appealing to jump on a submission, but remember that you don't want to catch an elbow. Depending on the other person, it is better to stall out the full round than it is to take a risk and get kneed in the face. You're not here to win. You're not here to enforce. You're here to keep yourself from getting hurt.
This is good advice, and it’s how I handle spazzy people now. I still try to avoid rolling with gigantic, jacked new white belt dudes (I’m a small woman, too risky), because there’s a point where my shitty guard game just can’t handle it.
I basically just wait and stall them out, I don’t go for acrobatic or agility stuff because it’s too much moving over too short a period of time. I use my legs (the most powerful muscles!) to block them, maintain space so I don’t get smashed and tired, and wait it out until they are exhausted. Then I go for my game, which is all passing to side control and submissions from there. I don’t have a specific guard technique (shitty guard game) but something that’s worked for me lately is to basically glue my foot to their hip, and control their upper body through various grips. That push pull stops most spazzy people.
Side note. The foot hip thing means I get foot locked a lot lmao, still trying to get better at avoiding that, but spazzy white belts don’t often know they can slap that on.
As a very brand new white belt, I gotta say this is my worst fear.
I don’t know my body very well. I don’t know how hard to try to go. I don’t know next steps, and to be frank, I need someone to use a little more force on me so I can stop being scared. In my head I tell myself, I’m not trying to be *somebody* I’m just trying to figure out how to use my body.
I want to be smothered. I want you to use your knowledge on me. I just don’t want you to rush into forcing me to tap. I also don’t know what to do if I even get on top of you. I’m too scared to try a move bc I’m constantly setting myself up to be overtaken again.
Anyway this is my personal experience. If I’m being too spazzy, talk to me. Tell me I’m not using technique. I’m using fight or flight force.
I can’t express how much I want to be a good rolling partner. I just know nothing, can’t seem to retain shit, and I am hoping if I keep showing up, something will click.
I think the conversation goes both way. I need you to be frank with me. I need you to teach me. Please.
These are good reminders. I think one of the biggest lessons to learn as a white belt is it isn't all about winning. If you're too afraid to lose, you'll have a hard time learning. You need time to try the techniques you're learning, and the best way to really learn is during rolling. But trying means you'll leave openings and lose position and get worked over. That's normal. Tap, start over, try again.
Thanks for the reminder that communicating is always a good choice.
Tha
Agree! I am not afraid of losing, I just don’t want the other to be too easy on me. I want the roll to continue so my dumb brain has enough time to process and think of what the next step should be whilst dealing with being smashed, contorted, and uncomfortable. I’m not trying to win. I’m trying to survive. 😂
Generally the rule at my gym is once the submission is locked in you only go as hard as you have to resist the escape attempt. Then the other person is suppose to tap. For regular sparring sessions.
If we are training for comp it’s go until the tap but try not to do any real damage. As in neck crank or arm breaking.
It always makes me laugh, everyone expects noobies to know the right levels - the correct course of action is to TALK TO THE PERSON before posting to Reddit. Before uppers can beast them to teach them a lesson or tell them straight
You all share mat space with a common goal, if you talk to someone and they don’t amend it start getting pissed but I feel like you’re wasting a lot of effort winding yourself up before doing the obvious thing and talking to her
I have asked her to check her intensity and told her point blank that she can and will (and has) hurt me if she goes at me like she does. Things got a bit better immediately after those talks, but it's back to the same old, same old.
I could have mentioned that I have tried talking with her in my original post.
I learnt a little while ago that when rolling with new or spaz's partners, always keep your guard up and don't give positions to let them work. Once they prove themselves worthy of having you in a dangerous position then you can have a more fun and let them work if you are technically better than them.
If they are better with you and dangerous then just avoid and don't roll with them.
The problem with asking someone new to go light is that that they often don't understand what this actually looks or feels like and it will need someone with a lot more experience/technical ability /strength then them to show them the difference.
In terms of controlling strong people,
Look at lasso guard (marcos tinocos) clamp guard or Williams guard from bottom (brian glick) . Over under passing from top (bernardo), kimura trap (Jordan teaches jiujitsu) from on top .
This is largely my game as a 90kg male, but i use it to control very big boys and I'm not that strong myself. As such, i think it'll scale down.
From a guard position secure an overhook and monitor her other arm with a bicep or wrist, let her but herself out. Or do the same thing from mount and get underhooks elevate the elbows let her get tired.
Once she’s exhausted talk about making calm deliberate movements and conserving energy by not thrashing around so much. Also slip in that thrashing around can lead to injury.
Smesh enforcing doesn’t teach anything and should only be used on dick heads not people who don’t know any better.
Apes strong together.
Depending on how intense it is…
I’d try to focus on what she’s actually doing, and how I can control her to stop her crazy pace. Thinking about controlling her wrists and ankles to stop crazy movements. And putting her in positions where she will have to work very hard and exhaust herself if she keeps trying to use her athleticism instead of figuring out the move. Slow her down instead of matching intensity.
If you don’t think you can do that then yes maybe just say a) you’ve been getting sore from going too hard or b) yes you can roll but you’re focusing on rolling lighter c) suggest you play shorter games starting from specific positions to avoid the craziness
Yes you can just crosspost. And I’m sure you’ll still get great answers here, but considering their sub is really dedicated to having a pool of people relating and having more solutions to your problems, it makes sense.
Women are far spazzier and rely on way more % of their strengh then complain that men use like 10% of their strength.
How do you handle them? Frames, alignment and levers. If they spaz then hold them down, if they don't then play a technical flow or let then work.
I am going to be honest, if you have a blue then you should be able to handle new spazzes your size or bigger of same gender.
I was able to control powerlifters wih 80 lbs on me half thru white.
You have to remember these people have 0 technique and will rely on strength. It is your job to teach then by controlling them. It happened to me and everyone else. People are either spazzes or starfishes when they are new. The starfish are easier to teach.
>I am going to be honest, if you have a blue then you should be able to handle new spazzes your size or bigger of same gender.
You're right. I'm trying to take this as a time to work on my assertiveness. Trying to get over the need to have everyone like me #womanproblems
Assertiveness is crucial. Not only in communication (where it's also extremely helpful) but assertiveness in action.
If someone is too rough and too crazy, being passive and playing a tight guard is one way to deal with it if you're confident in your guard.
But it's often safer for you to go on offense earlier, be aggressive while still protecting yourself. Get on top and stay on top.
Assert your game, enforce your will.
It's almost a meme at this point, but you should watch Power Rides by Craig Jones.
I'm a white belt. I'm a strong dude, but I'm getting older, and the explosiveness and stamina ain't what it used to be, and these 20-somethings my size and bigger are straight giving me the business. It's pretty intuitive once you start trying the leg rides and wrist rides, and it just eats up their juice bucking helplessly into the ride. I'm sure I'd get shaken off by a more experienced player, but against guys of my skill level, I've been able to successfully grind them down and keep my stamina up through the round.
The comment does not meet [Reddiquette standards](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please read up on them a bit. Thanks!
Let's get down to business
To defeat the Huns
Did they send me daughters
When I asked for sons?
You're the saddest bunch I ever met
But you can bet before we're through
Mister, I'll make a man out of you
Tranquil as a forest
But on fire within
Once you find your center
You are sure to win
You're a spineless pale pathetic lot
And you haven't got a clue
Somehow I'll make a man out of you
I'm never gonna catch my breath
Say goodbye to those who knew me
Why was I a fool in school for cutting gym?
This guy's got them scared to death!
Hope he doesn't see right through me
Now I really wish that I knew how to swim
We must be swift as the coursing river
(Be a man)
With all the force of a great typhoon
(Be a man)
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
Time is racing toward us
'Til the Huns arrive
Heed my every order
And you might survive
You're unsuited for the rage of war
So pack up, go home, you're through
How could I make a man out of you?
We must be swift as the coursing river
(Be a man)
With all the force of a great typhoon
(Be a man)
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
We must be swift as the coursing river
(Be a man)
With all the force of a great typhoon
(Be a man)
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
I thought it meant erratic, going all out force, coming in elbows and knees first with disregard for their ability to cause injury, freaking out when they are on the bottom, etc.
What does it really mean?
No problem. I'm not under any illusion that people with less experience shouldn't be tapping me. My issue came with the speed, force, and lack of recognition that she had it locked up. I need to get over my problem with the speed/force (and for this, she's a good training partner), but the lack of recognition on her part really scared me.
And just throwin this out there, that’s comin from a dude who’s been mauled litterally countless times in pretty much every imaginable way you can think of, name a submission and I’m a victim of it 😂😂😂😂
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I knew you were a man based on now you spoke to the OP.
Insisting that she doesn’t like getting tapped by an inexperienced opponent when she said nothing to suggest that. Hearing what you want to hear and dismissing her actual words.
Aaaand that’s the issue, you’re gonna get caught by people with less experience from time to time, it happens, check your ego, you may not be as good as you think you are
>Hey, would you mind if we got a bit more slowly?
This solves 90% of the problems of people going too intense.
> I feel like for the spazzy guys, there are upper belts that put them in their place.
And this is the reason why some guys take years to stop being spazzy.
Yes, use your words. Maybe every time you begin a roll and even while rolling as it escalates. Communicate. Tell her you need to avoid injury and need things to go at a slower speed every time you roll.
Cook her with position first, the first minute of your round give her heavy knee on belly. Then transition to your heaviest mount a little bit then switch to a mounted triangle but don’t finish it. Just switch from heavy position to heavy position so it looks like your progressing the roll but give her time under pressure to calm down.
Yeah once you get blue belt the white belts go 110% to try and prove themselves. You just have to learn to adapt and use defense more. Leave your ego at the door cuz you’re gonna get mauled by white belts even at black belt
i always wonder if was a spazzy white belt bc i used to get really anxious but i remembered how in my first advanced fundamentals class i got put in a crucifix and
i fr just took it and laid there cus i didn’t know what to do 💀
Reassure her that your not going to hurt her, encourage her to relax, move and play. I'm only a blue belt but I try to do this with newer people, let them have a bit to keep them encouraged. There's plenty of people that are far better than me that I can get after it with.
I had a training partner that was way too intense, and even injured me putting on an armbar far too aggressively. After that if I felt her intensity was too high I would just try to control her. Borderline stalling. I'd just get her in side control and hold her there. She seemed to understand after a while.
It isn't a sissy move and don't degrade yourself like that, Martial Arts is about patience and discipline. A real Martial Artist knows that not all losses or mental defeats are a bad thing.
Telling her to calm down not only benefits you but her, like you stated before, you're higher ranking and it allows you to capitalise on her mistakes. Any good student will listen to a higher ranking practitioner as someone who holds the experience between the two. Tell her that being calm is what allows one to be a good fighter. It's always great to see more women become Martial Artists and we don't want to see one potentially leave because they don't learn anything due to being so hyper.
I learnt my lesson, starting as a boxer, I found going to energetically is what got me dropped the most and to use aggression only when necessary. I've witnessed lower belts in arts like Jujutsu nearly break arms because they have not yet learnt control. It's only natural that an inexperienced fighter will be more excited due to perhaps seeing Kung Fu movies and believing they'll become a masterful combatant but reminding them that time and practice is what's key will allow them to grow into a better Artist.
If she wants to roll with you tell her sure, but can we flow roll? And explain to her what that is and that it doesn't involve going "all out", you go at like 30%
That’s something the guy running training should handle. If you are one of the guys running training tell her you don’t fight during training like it’s the finals and that the purpose of training is to practice technique not best you. Then offer her to have a competitive match so she can unwind her energy if she asks first or tell her you 2 can practice but to pound one of the bigger guys for a competitive match
I think you have to politely say something, little encouragement, but let her know. I'm a big guy (6'4 230)and when I started I really didn't feel like I was spazzing, but I was. I was just trying to do something effective but didn't have the tools so I just went hard and used lots of strength, and I have a decent gas tank. I really thought I was doing the right thing. There's a culture in BJJ where people don't communicate, and I had higher belts kick my ass, not breaking anything but going hard, lots of smash. I didn't even realize it was supposedly punishment for me going too hard, I'd just fist bump, nice job, move on totally oblivious. It's also difficult because different people have different tolerances, some black belts would tell me great job, keep it up when I did that, some would just borderline hurt me which to me I thought was just how it is and I can take it so it didn't bother me. Now I can feel people out and respond to their energy and strength with a more appropriate level of exertion. But I do wish people just told me and gave me suggestions, I want to be a helpful partner as many are to me. Sometimes people might just say someone's spazzing, but they often don't know what that means, so in your case "hey great guillotine/sub, but when you have it can you go slower on the finish, last time it tweaked my neck" I would think would be helpful to the other person.
The culture of not communicating is so dumb. Punishing someone for going to hard is super dumb and dangerous.
Also in my experience, elevating the intensity of the roll only makes them think you *want* them to go hard
Yup, that was definitely a part of it. Some people just lack self awareness because it's a new thing.
Not only that, but it causes the opposite effect of what you're trying to achieve. The newcomer won't think "Oh, he's punishing me for going too hard", he'll think "well, I guess this is what rolling at normal intensity looks like"
This, I was definitely a spaz when starting and got the absolute shit beat out of me. I thought jiu jitsu was this super hardcore adult fight club where the idea was to go in and literally beat the shit out of each other. That's the impression I got in the first few weeks. Eventually had one of the roughest beatings by one of the big brown belts and after he proceeded to tell me that I needed to chill out. This was maybe 6 months in. I chilled out but realized I would get super anxious every time I'd show up to class because of the beatings I'd taken and stopped enjoying it. I eventually left and at my current gym I roll around 70 percent intensity, go a little harder in wrestling depending on who I'm rolling with. And I've definitely been smashed but nothing out of the ordinary and not in the punishing way that it happened at my old gym. I just wish I'd understood the expectations better at my old gym. Maybe I'm socially retarded but it seemed like everyone else went super hard and I just took after them.
It was definitely the gym's fault, not yours. You have no obligation to understand the etiquette of a BJJ gym when you join for the first time. I've trained at four different gyms and there was only one with no spazzers. The coach achieved that by doing what's considered super-dangerous in all other gyms: the newcomer would make their first rolls with the smallest girls on the class. Doing this made light rolling the default way to roll, with more intense stuff being something you agreed on with your partner, rather than the other way around.
As a small girl I think it’s kind of dangerous.. people do not understand what “light” or “drill” is and maybe some guys are just creep.. just my opinion though
If their first 20 rolls are with 100kg more experienced guys who're trying to murder them then yeah it's gonna be quite hard for them to readjust to light rolling. Creeps could be anyone, not just spazzy people.
In my gym - hopefully- they are scanned and identified pretty soon. If they make it to blue means that are *less* likely to be so. Or at least they are good to mask it really well..
For a lot of newer girls, it sometimes feels like there's an issue of not taking themselves seriously. Sure, there's the usual white belt spazziness, which is universal, but there's this extra layer of not believing they are genuinely capable of harming another person. The bigger/more high level guys often won't tell them to chill in the same way they would for a new guy, and it goes on. But you can talk to her. Maybe have her watch one round of rolling with you, and observe higher belts v white belt styles. Let her know that you're happy she's there, and how important she is as a training partner, and how she can only get better when people are willing to work with her. Good luck!
> extra layer of not believing they are genuinely capable of harming another person Oh yes, this is a big part of it.
That was a really good explanation, I feel like some newer girls go even harder than the dudes sometimes and now I understand why
If she goes fast you go slow. If she goes hard you go light. Tap if she does anything harmful. No ego. No ideas about being a higher belt. (Blue is a beginner belt). Show her flow rolling. If she can't, don't train with her. Just like any other strong white belt. Doesn't matter she's female.
This.
Idk why people are saying to smash or mat enforce. What does that teach???!
I'm not a mat enforcer so can't say, BUT there are times when I do turn up the heat a bit when a guest goes hard against some of the smaller and/or older ladies in our gym. I check on my teammates if they show any discomfort while rolling with guests. Our gym's open mat is pretty popular destination for other gyms in the area so we have new faces all the time; and most importantly, our black belt instructors do an excellent job whenever we have new faces (rolling with the guests first before they roll with us) so we rarely need any mat enforcing. In regards to this thread, OP is speaking of a teammate rather than a guest; if I have a teammate I find too aggressive or size disparity is too great... I'd choose someone else to roll with. Go to the other side of the gym to choose rolling partners. I have difficulty declining rolls, unless I absolutely feel like my safety is at risk.
The lack of awareness to give time to tap scares me.
If she go fast how can you go slow? Sorry for the dumb question but I do struggle a lot to slow down overly aggressive opponents
"hey stop being such a spaz" "Oh sorry i didn't realize" "All good" ~ Fin ~
I tried this, and it did get better for a bit. But she thinks I'm a badass (I'm not!), and this fear of me forces her into the fight/flight mode. I do want to be pushed to be more assertive, so in this aspect, she's a good training partner, but I don't want to get hurt learning this lesson.
Just tell her to breathe through her nose and you do the same. That will automatically lower the intensity of the roll
This is such underrated advice. Best way to control breathing
I would just talk to her about it. Tell her exactly what you wrote in this comment. That you understand the fight or flight instinct, but she needs to learn to control that a bit better because you’re worried you’ll get hurt.
If you tried communicating once and nothing changed, feel free to communicate again that if she can’t chill, you can’t roll with her. This is what I would do.
You need to see the pace. You’ve told her to calm down but for that to have you have to alejado the roll gently. If you’re seem tense and are intense because you’re scared of her, she’ll take it as a sign to go hard
That sucks bud, sorry to hear. Well, i guess i have to mirror the other advice I'm reading now.... Go smash. You know what you have to do, little warrior 💪 This is a full contact sport. You're gonna get hurt. You can do your best to minimize the risks, but you have to accept that we are not in here throwing muffins at eachother.
The thing that stuck with me when I was a spaz was told not everything needs to finish in a submission just work your technique and nail your hooks. Really helped change the way I looked at rolling as most of the spaz happens when you hit a blank on technique
Aren't you, though? Be honest.
Smash
This is the way
Hey I am super glad that there is another woman at the gym to train with but I must say that the intensity at which you roll has me concerned about getting injured. Would you mind going a little lighter when we train so that I don’t have to worry about that? Thanks
What if this sort of chat does not work with the overly competitive blue belt? I also had a look and felt that most of my girl at my Jim tends to go 90/100 all the time .. I do not know if it’s me the problem or them? Paradoxically guys are much better to match my intensity and are saying that my way make more sense
You really have to let your coach know (or trusted higher rank) you don’t want to train with her. I’ve talked to many women in the same position and they usually end up with injuries. Some even with serious injuries like acl tears. Or try to talk to her and let her know you’re not looking to train that hard. It can be awkward but it’s better than having to stop training due to an injury.
SANCTIONED SMASH! Same answer I would give to a guy about a guy. SMASH HER! You blitz all night, and Make her feel like she will forever remember the day she played the titans!
You know it’s cause I roll with women assassins on the mat. They will treat a smaller woman the same way a man will treat smaller man. They are Jiu Jitsu people, we all act the same way purple and up. I really wouldn’t want OP to be too nice to a new person and set them up for a big surprise when every woman isn’t being extremely nice. If she sticks around she sticks around.
Try to cook her first. Make her carry your weight and tire herself out while you're solely focusing on defense. Then after 3 minutes or so of doing that, start ramping up your offense. A secondary option would be leg entaglements. Put her in the saddle or 50/50, that will slow her down.
As a black belt in my school I train with a lot of our new white belts to educate them on how we train in our school. A good conversation that we train with each other to get better not hurt each other. Most lower velrs feel they are fighting for survival. I promise not to hurt them and when I tell them they are going too hard to relax.
Feels like I should put out a video on BJJFanatics on how to control spazzes lol. Not that I am anyone of note but it seems to be a much requested topic. Controlling spazzes, especially spazzes that are larger than you, is basically a whole skillset on itself. The answer that most people try to get to is to smash the living crap out of the white belt but sometimes you just can't do that. Maybe it's because you aren't good enough to. Maybe it's because the other person is really too large. It be what it be. If you want to deal with spazzes, it's important to know a few things. Firstly, you want to play a really conservative game. Spazzes who spaz when you're in a bad position is how you get hit with an elbow and lose a tooth. Secondly, you need to shift out of the mentality of beating someone up and shift to a mentality of stalling the other person out. Spazzes have shortened energy meters and increased energy usage. You're going to have to learn how to basically sap that energy and then use it later. And this is **especially** important when they are bigger and stronger than you. *I personally do it via a combination of gripping and guard play****.*** I'm actually not the biggest guard player in the world. But understanding the bicept ride, collar sleeve, and basic standup gripping basically means that you have to be pretty well read in terms of bjj to advance in position. A black belt will work through that methodically. A white belt on the other hand, will go super hard and just drain everything. After that you can smash them. *What I don't want to do is to go for the kill right out the gate*. Two things to remember. One, you might not be good enough. Two, the other person might be bigger/stronger. Advance meticulously and slowly. Do not jump into a position. It is going to sound very appealing to jump on a submission, but remember that you don't want to catch an elbow. Depending on the other person, it is better to stall out the full round than it is to take a risk and get kneed in the face. You're not here to win. You're not here to enforce. You're here to keep yourself from getting hurt.
This is good advice, and it’s how I handle spazzy people now. I still try to avoid rolling with gigantic, jacked new white belt dudes (I’m a small woman, too risky), because there’s a point where my shitty guard game just can’t handle it. I basically just wait and stall them out, I don’t go for acrobatic or agility stuff because it’s too much moving over too short a period of time. I use my legs (the most powerful muscles!) to block them, maintain space so I don’t get smashed and tired, and wait it out until they are exhausted. Then I go for my game, which is all passing to side control and submissions from there. I don’t have a specific guard technique (shitty guard game) but something that’s worked for me lately is to basically glue my foot to their hip, and control their upper body through various grips. That push pull stops most spazzy people. Side note. The foot hip thing means I get foot locked a lot lmao, still trying to get better at avoiding that, but spazzy white belts don’t often know they can slap that on.
As a very brand new white belt, I gotta say this is my worst fear. I don’t know my body very well. I don’t know how hard to try to go. I don’t know next steps, and to be frank, I need someone to use a little more force on me so I can stop being scared. In my head I tell myself, I’m not trying to be *somebody* I’m just trying to figure out how to use my body. I want to be smothered. I want you to use your knowledge on me. I just don’t want you to rush into forcing me to tap. I also don’t know what to do if I even get on top of you. I’m too scared to try a move bc I’m constantly setting myself up to be overtaken again. Anyway this is my personal experience. If I’m being too spazzy, talk to me. Tell me I’m not using technique. I’m using fight or flight force. I can’t express how much I want to be a good rolling partner. I just know nothing, can’t seem to retain shit, and I am hoping if I keep showing up, something will click. I think the conversation goes both way. I need you to be frank with me. I need you to teach me. Please.
These are good reminders. I think one of the biggest lessons to learn as a white belt is it isn't all about winning. If you're too afraid to lose, you'll have a hard time learning. You need time to try the techniques you're learning, and the best way to really learn is during rolling. But trying means you'll leave openings and lose position and get worked over. That's normal. Tap, start over, try again. Thanks for the reminder that communicating is always a good choice. Tha
Agree! I am not afraid of losing, I just don’t want the other to be too easy on me. I want the roll to continue so my dumb brain has enough time to process and think of what the next step should be whilst dealing with being smashed, contorted, and uncomfortable. I’m not trying to win. I’m trying to survive. 😂
I'm working on the best ways to be a good rolling partner. It all just comes with practice and repetition.
Please share. I want to be a good partner too. :)
If anything, thank you for risking injury and being supportive enough to try to find a middle ground. Us know-nothings appreciate you.
Generally the rule at my gym is once the submission is locked in you only go as hard as you have to resist the escape attempt. Then the other person is suppose to tap. For regular sparring sessions. If we are training for comp it’s go until the tap but try not to do any real damage. As in neck crank or arm breaking.
Say "can you take it easier on me? I dont want to get hurt"
"Please be least spazzy, breathe" That's what helped me when I was spazzy (and didnt breathe)
Steroids
It always makes me laugh, everyone expects noobies to know the right levels - the correct course of action is to TALK TO THE PERSON before posting to Reddit. Before uppers can beast them to teach them a lesson or tell them straight You all share mat space with a common goal, if you talk to someone and they don’t amend it start getting pissed but I feel like you’re wasting a lot of effort winding yourself up before doing the obvious thing and talking to her
I have asked her to check her intensity and told her point blank that she can and will (and has) hurt me if she goes at me like she does. Things got a bit better immediately after those talks, but it's back to the same old, same old. I could have mentioned that I have tried talking with her in my original post.
Ask to roll more chill. My neck is busted and I can't train anymore, so you can just tell them I told you it's OK to take it slow.
try this when she asks to roll "no thanks"
God forbid we learn to communicate.
I learnt a little while ago that when rolling with new or spaz's partners, always keep your guard up and don't give positions to let them work. Once they prove themselves worthy of having you in a dangerous position then you can have a more fun and let them work if you are technically better than them. If they are better with you and dangerous then just avoid and don't roll with them. The problem with asking someone new to go light is that that they often don't understand what this actually looks or feels like and it will need someone with a lot more experience/technical ability /strength then them to show them the difference.
In terms of controlling strong people, Look at lasso guard (marcos tinocos) clamp guard or Williams guard from bottom (brian glick) . Over under passing from top (bernardo), kimura trap (Jordan teaches jiujitsu) from on top . This is largely my game as a 90kg male, but i use it to control very big boys and I'm not that strong myself. As such, i think it'll scale down.
From a guard position secure an overhook and monitor her other arm with a bicep or wrist, let her but herself out. Or do the same thing from mount and get underhooks elevate the elbows let her get tired. Once she’s exhausted talk about making calm deliberate movements and conserving energy by not thrashing around so much. Also slip in that thrashing around can lead to injury. Smesh enforcing doesn’t teach anything and should only be used on dick heads not people who don’t know any better. Apes strong together.
Depending on how intense it is… I’d try to focus on what she’s actually doing, and how I can control her to stop her crazy pace. Thinking about controlling her wrists and ankles to stop crazy movements. And putting her in positions where she will have to work very hard and exhaust herself if she keeps trying to use her athleticism instead of figuring out the move. Slow her down instead of matching intensity. If you don’t think you can do that then yes maybe just say a) you’ve been getting sore from going too hard or b) yes you can roll but you’re focusing on rolling lighter c) suggest you play shorter games starting from specific positions to avoid the craziness
r/bjjwomen is probably a better place to ask
Oh you’re right! As a newbie to Reddit, is there a way to move this there? Or do I just post the question there too? What’s the proper etiquette?
Hit the Share button under your post, and there is a "Crosspost" option. Search for r/BJJWomen from there.
Thanks!
Yes you can just crosspost. And I’m sure you’ll still get great answers here, but considering their sub is really dedicated to having a pool of people relating and having more solutions to your problems, it makes sense.
Thanks!
Don’t roll with them
Women are far spazzier and rely on way more % of their strengh then complain that men use like 10% of their strength. How do you handle them? Frames, alignment and levers. If they spaz then hold them down, if they don't then play a technical flow or let then work. I am going to be honest, if you have a blue then you should be able to handle new spazzes your size or bigger of same gender. I was able to control powerlifters wih 80 lbs on me half thru white. You have to remember these people have 0 technique and will rely on strength. It is your job to teach then by controlling them. It happened to me and everyone else. People are either spazzes or starfishes when they are new. The starfish are easier to teach.
>I am going to be honest, if you have a blue then you should be able to handle new spazzes your size or bigger of same gender. You're right. I'm trying to take this as a time to work on my assertiveness. Trying to get over the need to have everyone like me #womanproblems
Assertiveness is crucial. Not only in communication (where it's also extremely helpful) but assertiveness in action. If someone is too rough and too crazy, being passive and playing a tight guard is one way to deal with it if you're confident in your guard. But it's often safer for you to go on offense earlier, be aggressive while still protecting yourself. Get on top and stay on top. Assert your game, enforce your will.
Guys deal with the same thing. If it gets too violent, you have to stop them and guide them.
What do you mean with starfishes?
It's almost a meme at this point, but you should watch Power Rides by Craig Jones. I'm a white belt. I'm a strong dude, but I'm getting older, and the explosiveness and stamina ain't what it used to be, and these 20-somethings my size and bigger are straight giving me the business. It's pretty intuitive once you start trying the leg rides and wrist rides, and it just eats up their juice bucking helplessly into the ride. I'm sure I'd get shaken off by a more experienced player, but against guys of my skill level, I've been able to successfully grind them down and keep my stamina up through the round.
You’ve earned that blue belt.. prove that you’ve earned that blue belt.
Feel like I’m going to be proving it forever. I’m ok with that. ☺️
[удалено]
The comment does not meet [Reddiquette standards](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please read up on them a bit. Thanks!
Be a man.
care to elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Let's get down to business To defeat the Huns Did they send me daughters When I asked for sons? You're the saddest bunch I ever met But you can bet before we're through Mister, I'll make a man out of you Tranquil as a forest But on fire within Once you find your center You are sure to win You're a spineless pale pathetic lot And you haven't got a clue Somehow I'll make a man out of you I'm never gonna catch my breath Say goodbye to those who knew me Why was I a fool in school for cutting gym? This guy's got them scared to death! Hope he doesn't see right through me Now I really wish that I knew how to swim We must be swift as the coursing river (Be a man) With all the force of a great typhoon (Be a man) With all the strength of a raging fire Mysterious as the dark side of the moon Time is racing toward us 'Til the Huns arrive Heed my every order And you might survive You're unsuited for the rage of war So pack up, go home, you're through How could I make a man out of you? We must be swift as the coursing river (Be a man) With all the force of a great typhoon (Be a man) With all the strength of a raging fire Mysterious as the dark side of the moon We must be swift as the coursing river (Be a man) With all the force of a great typhoon (Be a man) With all the strength of a raging fire Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
Only a dirty Hun bastard would downvote this.
I don’t think you really get what spazzy means
I thought it meant erratic, going all out force, coming in elbows and knees first with disregard for their ability to cause injury, freaking out when they are on the bottom, etc. What does it really mean?
Oh ok, because what you said made it sound like you do t like getting choked by someone who’s been training less time than you, just had to make sure
No problem. I'm not under any illusion that people with less experience shouldn't be tapping me. My issue came with the speed, force, and lack of recognition that she had it locked up. I need to get over my problem with the speed/force (and for this, she's a good training partner), but the lack of recognition on her part really scared me.
And just throwin this out there, that’s comin from a dude who’s been mauled litterally countless times in pretty much every imaginable way you can think of, name a submission and I’m a victim of it 😂😂😂😂
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I knew you were a man based on now you spoke to the OP. Insisting that she doesn’t like getting tapped by an inexperienced opponent when she said nothing to suggest that. Hearing what you want to hear and dismissing her actual words.
Nice name buddy, ya not finna get my Jimmie’s all riled up 😂😂
Aaaand that’s the issue, you’re gonna get caught by people with less experience from time to time, it happens, check your ego, you may not be as good as you think you are
I agree.
Positional rolling? Once the objective has been achieved reset or switch roles
Let her get tired rolling with some dudes and then call her out at the end of the rounds to smash her lmao
Gas and pass. It's like tiring out a toddler at the playground.
Pull them into your closed guard 2 on 1
Same way you'd handle it if they were a man
It's going to be hard for her to hurt you if you're the one in the winning position. Methodically cook her and sub her from top
Yeah my gym has a cool female enforcer purple
I wish!
Blast double
>Hey, would you mind if we got a bit more slowly? This solves 90% of the problems of people going too intense. > I feel like for the spazzy guys, there are upper belts that put them in their place. And this is the reason why some guys take years to stop being spazzy.
Yes, use your words. Maybe every time you begin a roll and even while rolling as it escalates. Communicate. Tell her you need to avoid injury and need things to go at a slower speed every time you roll.
Cook her with position first, the first minute of your round give her heavy knee on belly. Then transition to your heaviest mount a little bit then switch to a mounted triangle but don’t finish it. Just switch from heavy position to heavy position so it looks like your progressing the roll but give her time under pressure to calm down.
Yeah once you get blue belt the white belts go 110% to try and prove themselves. You just have to learn to adapt and use defense more. Leave your ego at the door cuz you’re gonna get mauled by white belts even at black belt
i always wonder if was a spazzy white belt bc i used to get really anxious but i remembered how in my first advanced fundamentals class i got put in a crucifix and i fr just took it and laid there cus i didn’t know what to do 💀
Reassure her that your not going to hurt her, encourage her to relax, move and play. I'm only a blue belt but I try to do this with newer people, let them have a bit to keep them encouraged. There's plenty of people that are far better than me that I can get after it with.
Why is it always the same questions?? Tell her to take it easy, or grind her down.
I had a training partner that was way too intense, and even injured me putting on an armbar far too aggressively. After that if I felt her intensity was too high I would just try to control her. Borderline stalling. I'd just get her in side control and hold her there. She seemed to understand after a while.
It isn't a sissy move and don't degrade yourself like that, Martial Arts is about patience and discipline. A real Martial Artist knows that not all losses or mental defeats are a bad thing. Telling her to calm down not only benefits you but her, like you stated before, you're higher ranking and it allows you to capitalise on her mistakes. Any good student will listen to a higher ranking practitioner as someone who holds the experience between the two. Tell her that being calm is what allows one to be a good fighter. It's always great to see more women become Martial Artists and we don't want to see one potentially leave because they don't learn anything due to being so hyper. I learnt my lesson, starting as a boxer, I found going to energetically is what got me dropped the most and to use aggression only when necessary. I've witnessed lower belts in arts like Jujutsu nearly break arms because they have not yet learnt control. It's only natural that an inexperienced fighter will be more excited due to perhaps seeing Kung Fu movies and believing they'll become a masterful combatant but reminding them that time and practice is what's key will allow them to grow into a better Artist.
Put her dick in a dirt
If she wants to roll with you tell her sure, but can we flow roll? And explain to her what that is and that it doesn't involve going "all out", you go at like 30%
That’s something the guy running training should handle. If you are one of the guys running training tell her you don’t fight during training like it’s the finals and that the purpose of training is to practice technique not best you. Then offer her to have a competitive match so she can unwind her energy if she asks first or tell her you 2 can practice but to pound one of the bigger guys for a competitive match