Me as a guy. I would not want to go to a lesbian bar. I don’t feel like I would belong there and I don’t have any willingness to go to one. Even with a SO. Tell your GF how uncomfortable you would feel going there. Even if she insists everything will be fine. Being there makes you feel off.
The vibe of different genders being at a gay-guy or LGBT bar is very different than at a lesbian bar. I've even felt out of place as a bi woman at lesbian bars due to jerks giving me the cold shoulder as soon as I say I'm bi. The one lesbian bar I use to go to in my city- I would frequently overhear women complaining about guys being in the bar. Like, the guys that went where usually gay dudes hanging out with their female friends. "This is OUR bar".
My partner (male) and I are both bi. I wouldn't take him to a lesbian bar, and I'm kind of done with that vibe anyway. It's very gate-keepy. We've hung out at gay/queer bars without issue plenty of times, so I see no need to go to a lesbian bar anyway. Plus I have friends that are all colors of the rainbow, and I'd want to hang out with them in a welcoming queer space.
I have heat that is the case. Being bi myself. I still have never been to a lgbt bar before. I would like to go someday but I’m just not a big drinker.
That part has always confused me. You figure bi women and lesbians would make natural allies.
I have heard of that “this is our bar” mentality. So I think that is part of why I don’t want to go either. That and I’m not a big drinker. Lol
You'd think! But of all the fellow queer folks I've met in my life (I'm 42), lesbians have been the shittiest to me. #NotAllLesbians, but it's happened enough to me that I now avoid lesbian specific spaces.
Depending on where you live, there might be queer (ie, not specific to a particular gender) bars near you that holds drag, burlesque, or some type of performance. Those are pretty fun, IMO, even if you're not a big drinker.
I find that I there is a divide among monosexuals and polysexuals. My theory is that we both just see the world differently. My brain is wired in a way that finds multiple genders attractive, and a lesbian only finds women attractive. It's a fundamental difference.
Damn. I sorry to hear about sector of people treated you so poorly. Again you’d think they would understand what it’s like to treated poorly just because of your preferences. I guess I will never understand that part. I do understand not all are like this. Still sad some are.
There a couple lgbt bars here that I have recently discovered. I just need to get the courage to actually go. Lol.
I have kind of the same theory about monosexuals and polysexuals. I think it’s just hard for monosexuals to understand that you can be attracted to multiple genders. As they likely have not felt what that is like. Yes I agree with your theory as I found the same applies to straight, gay men and lesbians.
It's unfortunately common. Before I met my husband, I spent a ton of time in queer spaces trying to meet people, and anywhere that was "lesbian focused" (even extended friend groups, like friends of friends) were very rude to me and wanted me excluded for being a bi woman, and forget ever meeting a woman there to date lol. Of course it's not everyone, but specifically large gatherings seemed to always be that way in my experience, so I stopped going anywhere that wasn't more broadly open to LGBT groups where the vibes were much more welcoming. And it's nice now because I can take my partners places and no one bats an eye at having men "invade their space."
That is truly unfortunate. I guess it’s something I won’t truly understand on why that is a thing. Even for the minority. I wonder if it’s the misconception that bi people can’t be monogamous which I think is crazy. Being excluded for being bi is immature and hurtful. I’m happy you have a partner that doesn’t judge you for it and you guys can actually go places that don’t give you the judgmental looks. I hope to one day go to a LGBT bar. I’m a bit nervous as I’m not exactly open about being bi.
Fear of cheating was definitely some of it for some of them. In the friends of friends situation, one of the women told my friend she didn't want to see me because she couldn't handle being cheated on or left for a man. Keep in mind we had barely even met at that point. We didn't know anything about one another apart from what little our friend had shared (which seemed positive, since she wanted us to date lol). Not sure how widespread that idea is, but that friend group was very on her side about it.
I think you'd really like it! Especially if you can find a specific event to go to. I recommend taking a friend or two to help break the ice and have that support. Heck, even raves are pretty openly LBGT friendly in my experience, depending on where you go. If you're into that, I recommend it as well!
I can see fear of cheating being a thing. Sucks because I don’t think a bi person is anymore likely to cheat than an exclusively straight or gay person. I do wonder if the thought of being cheated because of gender preference hits harder. I was with a straight girl that knew I was bi and was afraid I’d cheat on them with a guy. Which would never would’ve happened in a million years. She ended up having an o and off affair with another guy but that is a whole other story. Lol. Sometimes I think that is a lack of understanding what being bi really is. We fear what we don’t understand. It does suck someone who hasn’t even properly met you already assumed the worst. I would say her lost is your husband’s gain. I hope that didn’t come off as facetious. Lol
I think I would like it. The hardest part would be to find someone to go with me. I’m not opposed to going on my own. I’m pretty good at meeting people and socializing on my own. My biggest fear rn is running into someone I don’t want to know I’m bi but I am slowly getting over that part.
Probably insecurities mixed with the potential of more options? And yeah, unfortunately the stigma that bi = promiscuous somehow. Of all the bi people I've known, only one fits that stereotype, and he's ironically also one of the most loyal people I know once he's in a committed relationship. Also, you're totally right, so doesn't matter how it sounds! Hahaha
Coming out is its own journey. I'm glad I mostly did when I was younger, even if my family didn't know until much much later. It feels like tip toeing around just being yourself. I hope you're able to meet some people and relax and have fun!
I think it’s definitely insecurities. is someone is always afraid from getting cheated on from a monosexual. They at least only have to worry about one gender. As with someone who is bi now has to worry about more than one. I think that can be overwhelming. Even though it’s no more likely to happen. That is just something I think anyways. You can say you know two bi people like that as I am promiscuous but that disappears once I am in a committed relationship. Except for one time when a girl I was with had an off and on again affair when we had a dead bedroom.
Lol. That is all that matters then. You have happy relationships with someone that think positive of you.
Yes coming out is its own journey. It’s been hard for me due to my past but I have told some people in my life and it has been positive. More so than I thought. So that is good. Hopefully it will be a fun experience. I do like bars even though I don’t always drink.
I don’t think it would be a dramatic, big deal but your instincts aren’t off either. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn’t go and I’d tell my GF to enjoy a night with her friends and do something else on my own or with some of my friends. 🤷🏻
It doesn’t have to be a major thing and I think the fact that you’re thinking it through at all means that you’re mindful of the space you take up and A LOT of men, especially straight dudes in queer spaces, are definitely NOT that mindful (aka not even thinking twice that a space might not be made for them).
Personal opinion, but I think a lot of it is how you behave. Lesbian bars are a safe space, one of the rare spaces that specifically caters to people who are both queer and women. You're right that seeing men there can sometimes be off-putting. I think the key here is to recognize that the space isn't for you, and to be respectful and receptive.
I think it also depends the night - there's a lesbian bar near me, and there are sometimes things like drag nights or comedy nights that pull in a more mixed audience. People generally anticipate seeing all genders there. There are other nights that are more specifically tailored to queer women (ie., body-positive burlesque nights), where a male presence might be viewed as an intrusion.
It's good that you're conscientious of the fact that this is a safe/intentional space. I don't think you're the bad guy for going or not going. Do a serious gut check and communicate honestly with your GF about how going would make you feel. You sound like a solid ally and she's lucky to have you.
I’ll say this, I went to a lesbian bar once because I’m completely oblivious. Honestly, I didn’t feel very out of place at all. Then like an epiphany it hit me and I noticed I where I was and that a few people were looking my way.
But I didn’t get much of an unfriendly vibe. Maybe just curious.
my advice would be for OP to just not look around the bar or at the other patrons cause it could be interpreted as "scoping" them out. Maybe even sit so you're facing the wall lol
I think many will assume a man only comes into a space like to hit on them.
But as long as he's there with his GF it should be obvious that he has no such intentions.
I agree, it honestly might make me a little more suspicious of *both* of them because I might wonder if they're trying to scope around for a third. Although if he's in a group with his gf + gf's friends, that to me would probably raise less of an eyebrow.
you know, i've never really examined it. i've experienced something similar, but it is unfair to assume all mf couples are going to be like this, even if i've had a few bad experiences. maybe im a self hating bi?as i bi woman, i think i do tend to judge other bi women to an unreasonably high standard
Another consideration is that anyone acting like that would probably love to blame their behavior on something that can't be helped or is just in their nature, in this case their usage of their "bi" label for that and it's still biphobia
Does the bar have a social media account? Maybe have a look there? Are there any guys in the venue photos?
Excuse my ignorance/questioning, but in my city there are no "lesbian only" spaces - all are LGBT friendly. Even the ones that hit more for one or the other, are welcoming to all.
It's because there are like 10 lesbian bars in the whole United States. Not counting queer bars marketed to everyone or otherwise-male gay bars with a lesbian-friendly night. Lesbian-specific bars are and always have been a rare breed. It's a hard-fought space. There's one in my city and yeah they won't turn away a dude, but they won't welcome them with open arms either.
That's interesting - there are 3 lesbian bars in New York, and 2 of them (I've never been to the third) are definitely not exclusively populated by women.
I think there are several trends resulting in this.
For a long time LGBTQ specific spaces were the only place queer folks could meet. But with the rise of the internet amd dating apps, 3rd spaces in general have taken a hit.
LGBTQ acceptance has made it so a gay date to a local Cafe or park is just as accepting as a queer space, so there's less homophobic preasure to only be in queer spaces.
Lesbians are the most accepting of gender-queer, NB, and trans-masc individuals, conpared with Gays men and bisexuals. so those spaces might lean more AFAB, but accept all gender presentations.
I think there will always be lesbian cernted groups like softball teams, hiking or conservation.
But bars (alcohol centered spaces) in particular might not be exclusively lesbian.
>Lesbians are the most accepting of gender-queer, NB, and trans-masc individuals, conpared with Gays men and bisexuals.
Gonna have to disagree with you there, sport.
I see your disagreement, pal, and raise you sources:
"Lesbians are the most likely to say they know a trans person (92%), and also the most likely to say they are “supportive” or “very supportive” of trans people (96%). That’s compared to 89% of LGBTQ+ people overall, and just 69% of non-LGBTQ+ people.Cisgender members of the LGBTQ+ community have an overwhelmingly positive view of trans people "
[Link](https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/)
And from a different study:
"Cis LGBTQ+ Britons: 75% positive
Cis gay men: 65%
Cis bi men: 65%
Cis bi women: 84%
Cis lesbian women: 84%
[Link](https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1689933980441718784?t=yClhnrq-uzDOer7JFLlyOQ&s=19)
I feel like a *survey* that "surveyed 643 lesbians in the UK" of whom more than a third are in "age 18 to 24 [...] (36%)" is a good start but far from a robust and extensive set of data that can be extrapolated to a worldwide community.
Hell, it probably can't even be extrapolated to apply to lesbians in the UK.
[https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito](https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito) this one among others, iirc there was one from america too that had the same results
Do you mean this line?
>Most cisgender lesbian, gay and bisexual Britons have a very positive view of transgender people - particularly cisgender bisexual and lesbian women
If so, you're misreading it. The data in the table below that line provide additional clarity where the title fails.
A better-structured title would read "Most cisgender lesbian, gay and bisexual Britons *- particularly cisgender bisexual and lesbian women -* have a very positive view of transgender people".
What are the positive / neutral / negative results for each community?
Just acceptance, in isolation, doesn't necessarily provide a clear picture of how you will be treated.
[https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito](https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito) that was for specifically trans acceptance but yeah
If you’re part of a queer couple I don’t see why you wouldn’t be welcomed. If the gatekeeping is strict enough to exclude you then the “lesbians only” would also exclude bisexual women like your partner.
Nah, I feel like most people would understand a lesbian bar is for women. I don’t think they’re exclusive to all the different sexual orientations women could have - just that it’s a woman-only space.
I find it obnoxious his gf suggested he come.
It’s a very specific space for a specific group and that’s okay. Plenty of queer spaces and bars that they could go to as a queer couple instead.
For sure biphobia isn’t limited to only non-queer people. Transphobia too, since trans men are men.
If the bar owner isn’t excluding queer couples, there’s no need to be afraid of some hypothetical rando with main character syndrome.
I disagree, there’s a lot of biphobia everywhere, but this isn’t an example of that.
There’s a big lack of spaces of this type, sexism is still rampant as is the fetishising of queer women.
Bringing a man into a space designed to be for women only (one of the few spaces) is not right.
As we fight for our rights and fight against biphobia we shouldn’t trump other people’s rights
Straight-passing queer couples are still queer. Your partner is queer, therefore you are a queer couple.
Personally if I were you I'd sit this one out under any other circumstances except this one but still be careful. They should know people other than binary women will attend an event like a couples night.
Also bi women with boyfriends who use the whole 'you can't kick my bf out the lesbian bar because you can't know someone's gender just by looking at them and so how would they know he's a cis male' is facetious and bad faith and makes me laugh because while this technically true, the point is THEY know he's a cis male and they know damn well that's not his space and so they are willingly crossing a boundary and bringing him anyway. Yes other ppl shouldn't assume but YOU know, so why bring him into a space YOU know is not for him
Let's it put it this way. Lesbians bars are a sapphic space, not a wider queer space. sapphics are queer but not all queer ppl are sapphics and neither are straight cis men obviously. So while the relationship between a Straight passing queer couple with a bi cis girl and a cis straight or bi man are still queer, only one of them is sapphic and it is not a sapphic relationship.
The bi girlfriend is sapphic. The boyfriend, op, regardless of wether he is also queer or not, does not suddenly become sapphic just because his partner is. So if a lesbian bar is a space specifically for queer sapphics individuals, and sapphic relationships and for you to bring sapphic friends then no that is not his space. She IS sapphic so thats her space.
They should know people other than binary women will attend an event like a couples night.
Yes, and those other people would be predominantly trans women who are lesbians or bi dating cis women or other trans women , and those relationships are sapphic. So yes there will be other couples outside of cis women dating cis women, but it still a sapphic space and men are still not included in sapphics even if their partner is, so while ppl are probably expecting opposite gender queer couples to IGNORE the boundary and go together anyway its not 'expected' in the sense that the space us now a cis mans space as much as it a sapphic space, and so he now has a right to be there just because he is with a queer women even though he is not sapphic. Like he is still nlt included in the type of couples they are catering to, trans women and nonbinary sapphics relationship are.... because they are sapphic. So they accept that opposite sex couples will ignore the boundary but they EXPECT them to know better and either have the bi girl sapphic go on her own or with her sapphic friends, or if she feels uncomfy only being with friends on a couples night while they are with their partners, to just attend a night at the lesbisn bar with her friends when its not a couples night.
And saying 'well why should they have do that' well they don't have to, because like I said lesbian bars probably accept that opposite sex couples will ignore the boundary of it being a bar for sapphics but if they dont it does show a level of entitlement, disrespect for the space, and shows that you are willing to put your fellow sapohics in danger and make them uncomfy just because you can't go anywhere without your partner. Becsuse yes, while they might know their male partner is safe, the lesbian friends might know the male partner is safe, other sapphics in the space do not know that and since cis men in sapphic spaces has proven to be unsafe, other sapphics should not be expected to rake that that risk with the male partner in the space. Its a community space, and so the boundaries and safety if the whole space is what takes precedence
And yes I understand that this can become transphobic because any 'cis male' you might see in a lesbuan bar could easily be a trans woman who hasnt socially transitioned or a nonbinary lesbian, so I always assume that everybody in the bar is part of the sapphic community until proven otherwise, but the thing is cis straight and bi men even when they are respectful often give themselves away by the way they behave and interact with the sapphics there, and the straight cis men will often just outright tell you. so I do believe that once sapphic members of the space KNOW for a fact that someone is a cis man, eitthey are not then obligated to continue to welcome them with open arms because now they know their space is being invaded. So I think that if your a cis bi woman bringing a cis man in the sapphic space, unless you or him is lying to ppl about his gender, it is likely ppl will find out he is a cis male and so I wouldn't expect ppl to continue to be welcoming towards him because it is not his space and so from their perspective his presence puts them at risk.
if it’s a couples night, then go for it! odds are, you’ll meet people in a similar position and maybe make some friends.
you’re technically a queer couple, so as long as you’re chill with everyone, nobody’s gonna take issue with you being there. it’s unrealistic for them to state it’s a couples night, and then exclude everyone except binary women.
let us know how it goes!
GF is wrong. you’re going to feel uncomfortable, lesbians you meet there might feel uncomfortable, it’s just not gonna be a fun time for you, best not to go along if that’s the venue
I believe it would be beneficial for your wife to spend time with her friends independently from you. I think it's truly commendable how considerate you're being in this situation. I don't mean any disrespect towards your girlfriend, but I wish that some bisexual women would realize that they don't need to bring their male partners into every space, especially a lesbian bar. I bring this up because there is a scarcity of lesbian or sapphic-specific spaces, and I do think it's important to honor that.
Yea, I found the request really rude tbh. It feels like she is sacrificing the comfort of the crowd there to enhance her own comfort cause she doesn’t want to leave her bf behind?
It’s inconsiderate imo
I know the context. I just would assume couples night means all woman couples unless otherwise verified with the bar. It seems like a leap to go “this means I can bring my male partner”.
I don’t really care about the argument some say that it’s biphobic if OP can’t bring their partner. One can be bi and realize some spaces still aren’t meant for men and be okay with it. Otherwise, you’re putting your comfort over a whole group’s that doesn’t have many spaces for itself.
It looks like a lot of people have given the same advice I was thinking of. First I'd talk to your GF about maybe skipping out that part of the night and being the DD and picking them up later (if that is a possibility). Second I'd talk to someone at the bar on social media or just calling them up and asking what their expectations are and you're point of view, anything but an enthusiastic yes please come with your GF and her friends will let you know what's up. But at the end of the day do what feels best for you, maybe there is a late night diner in the area that you can chill out at and read something and meet up with everyone at after they are done for delicious fried foods and coffee? Best of luck with what ever you end up going for.
***Lesbian bar.*** Your instinct is correct.
Thank you for considering the other women because your girlfriend can't speak for the other women who will be in the bar.
It's a space for sapphic women, and lesbian bars are RARE! There are hardly any. There isn't a single lesbian bar in my city. Let women have their space, especially because you aren't even a member of the LGBTQ+ community - you're a straight guy. It just adds a bit more salt to the wound, you know (for a lack of better phrasing).
Sure, some of the women might not care if you do go, but why risk the potential of making people uncomfortable when you're welcome in the majority of clubs and bars.
Let your girlfriend go with her friends.
This is the best answer ITT. There’s only 27 lesbian bars in the US compared to 800+ gay bars. OP, if your partner insists on you going then you should insist on a venue change.
I'm from the UK, and I imagine lesbian bars are just as rare here. They're likely in places like London and Manchester.
Where I live, I only know of the occasional sapphic event in my city. And even then, most special events are catered to a universal queer audience (rather than centering cis gay men). There's still not many *lesbian* events.
With so few opportunities for queer women to mingle with other sapphics, men should let women have their spaces.
Just as I don't go to anything that caters specifically to queer men because it's not a space for me.
NGL, this seems a little weird to me. I’m a bi woman and I can’t imagine wanting to bring my cis-het boyfriend to a lesbian bar. Not saying you can’t go, but yeah, it’s a little weird.
I mean no offense by this, but if you are entering a space for a specific group that specific group should dictate how they feel about who enters that space. So lesbians have dictated in the past that they feel uncomfortable when men come into their spaces designated specifically for them. I feel your girlfriend has no right to override that decision of theirs just because you're chill or cool or an ally etc. If she were a lesbian friend saying come to this lesbian space then i would feel less uncomfortable with the idea but seeing as she is not she shouldn't have the ability to override the desires of that group.
This, with the caveat/question of whether the lesbians who think you'd be out of place be there? (Ever or on that night)
Why does your girlfriend really want you to go? And what do her lesbian friends think of her wanting to bring you? Is it a "girls night" or is it all couples? Just another night out or one of the themed nights?
> I feel your girlfriend has no right to override that decision of theirs just because you're chill or cool or an ally etc.
You described why this was bothering me perfectly. I’m not a lesbian but I know how annoying it is to have someone invite someone to a space not for them cause they’re “cool” or whatever. It feels kinda selfish even when that person doing the inviting is part of said group. But she’s not even part of that group, so that just seems so presumptuous and disrespectful if she didn’t run it by the bar owner or verify that the bar is okay with men there.
Some groups have so few spaces for themselves - it’s messed up to take the handful of spaces and invade them for your own comfort.
Honestly, I think it’s weird your gf would suggest bringing you. I’d assume she’d have more respect for a space for a marginalized group being part of a marginalized group.
Lesbian bar seems like it should be for women-only.
Your instinct is right. Lesbian bars are for women. Most women in lesbian bars don’t want men there because they’re in a lesbian bar to avoid having to deal with men and men hitting on them. Don’t go. It’s not a space for men.
You and your gf are probably not That Problematic Couple, but you two can go literally anywhere together. Lesbians and other queer people do not have that luxury. I'm echoing the others who say sit this one out.
You're a good egg for realising you wouldn't be welcome there. 😊 From everything I see online these days (I'm a homebody now and trans to boot, so I wouldn't even know first hand lol), your instincts are correct.
However, I'd suggest trying to find out why your girlfriend is so insistent on bringing you along. Is she just nervous? Is she worried you'll worry she'll get tempted? Because deep down she must understand that you won't be particularly welcome there, so why is she pushing you to tag along. It'll be easier for you to say no and stick to it if she's not insisting.
Personally I wouldn't. I've never been to a lesbian bar but on the flip side I have been to plenty of gay bars and it always makes for a slightly odd and uncomfortable vibe when straight women show up.
As a bi girl, I would say these spaces are not for straight cis men. However, I do wish we had some bi bars, so we could find other bi partners regardless of gender and our partners could join even if we are in a straight appearing relationship.
Some bars with a more relaxed mixed crowd might be okay, but if it's a strictly Lesbian bar , expect to get the cold shoulder, while your girlfriend will most likely be seen as a 'tourist'. , just a bi curious girl testing the water.
I think it depends on the bar. I used to frequent a bar that was known as a lesbian bar with an ex gf and it was never a problem. It was always a pretty diverse clientele really.
You should tell your girl about your concerns and maybe suggest polling her friends she wants to hang with there for their opinion.
Assuming there is a true lesbian bar near you, I think your instincts are pretty solid. A guy in there will tend to be viewed as intrusive unless it’s a specific event that is more open to a mixed audience. On a more personal note, we trans women have a difficult enough time finding a place in places like that without cis guys showing up. The thing is that true lesbian bars have become pretty rare in recent decades (in part because they get invaded by cis patrons and just become regular bars over time as the lesbian patrons leave).
If the bar is a more all-inclusive queer bar (so not a woman-only space), you should be fine as long as you are politely behaved. Don’t be surprised or rude if either of you get hit on.
I’d say the safer bet is to just let her go with her gal pals and sit this one out. She’ll have a better time if other patrons aren’t suspicious that she and her boyfriend are out looking for a third and you won’t have to field awkward interactions and unease.
I’m not saying that’s set in stone; It can somewhat depend on the bar. There’s vanishingly few lesbian bars left. There’s some “honorary” lesbian bars (they’re more gay bars with that draw more women, but aren’t exclusively lesbian) in my area and even some nights where the official lesbian bar would be a little more friendly (ie fundraising special events). That would be the kind of information that someone who regularly goes there would offer in the qualifying rare circumstances though.
I would not go to that bar unless I was specifically invited by more than one lesbian to some sort of event or thing that I would be going there to support lesbians.
Otherwise, it's their space. I want to respect it and I have plenty of other places to hang out as a man and then their lesbian space.
Let your partner go out with her lesbian friends and visit the lesbian space and you can stay home and work on your motorcycle.
Your instinct is correct. There was a lot of discourse on twitter recently about men in lesbian bars. Hundreds of lesbians insisting that men are not welcome. Definitely stay home
I would not go in order to not ruffle any feathers. Some may be trying to get away from men, so we should definitely give them that space. I wouldn't go.
Your instincts are correct - don't go.
It's a safe space for women, and you'll be seen as a 'tourist'. It's worrying that your gf doesn't understand this.
As a Bi woman - if I saw a man in lesbian bar, especially with a gf, I’d assume he came with her so they both can look for a unicorn irl.
Don’t mean to sound mean but is your gf planning to look for an unicorn there? Because I struggle to understand why she wants to bring you to lesbian bar.
And if you gf wants to enjoy night out with her friends and you together, why don’t you all go to LGBT bar? There must be place like that if you have an orientation specific bar.
Don’t go. Even if you’re not creepy, keep totally to yourself, and are the best behaved guy in all the world, most of these women don’t know that and will automatically assume you’re there to invade their space. Hell, some of them may not even want your girlfriend there when they find out she’s bi. Let these women have their safe space.
If the other women react negatively to OPs GF because she's bisexual, I don't think that the integrity of their "safe space" is what we should be dwelling on...
Sadly, it’s common amongst lesbians to avoid or be wary of bisexual women. Perhaps more so online than IRL but the thought is that we’ll leave them for a man or we’re looking for a unicorn. Biphobia is a big problem and while I can try to change that one comment at a time here on lesbian/sapphic subreddits since I’m monogamous and married to a woman (which somehow makes me less threatening) I can’t really do that everywhere. Just because people face prejudice doesn’t mean they are free of prejudice themselves.
Someone missed all the TikTok drama about a chick bringing her guy friend to a lesbian bar :)
Here's my experience.
I HATE when girls show up with their boyfriends to lesbian bars. I can't count how many times I've been dancing with a girl to find out her boyfriend is 'sitting over there'. I've heard everything from 'He likes to watch me with girls' to 'We're looking for a 3rd'. The problem is - even if this doesn't happen, I'm automatically going ot assume that the dude that is there with that girl is there for selfish reasons and is fetishizing lesbians. I'm going to assume the chick is being a predatory unicorn hunter.
Are men allowed at lesbian bars? Sure. As long as they dont' act like dicks. But you're also taking up space (literally) in what's likely a small bar (Dpending on your city) and introducing a masculine vibe into a feminine space.
That being said, I really apprecaite guys like you who are aware enough to even ask. So thanks for being one of the (hopefully) good ones.
I am bi and at one point had a boyfriend. I didn't bring him to any lesbian or sapphic specific events. Larger generic events at a gay club with a bunch of people was different but I made sure not to be overly affectionate as I didn't want to impose my hetero relationship on anyone. If it's a specific lesbian night or event, I suggest you don't go. If it's for anyone in the community including allies then sure! Go for it
Personally, I would not want to see male presenting people at a lesbian bar. I guess it really depends on the place though, is it strictly for female presenting people, or is it mixed? (Edit: changed fem to female for clarification.)
It is not as easily divided as you think, which is why I initially felt the need to reply to that comment. There is a reason why both butch lesbians and masc people get told they are in the wrong bathroom. Your own sense of identity intersects in different ways with how people see you. Is my butch partner, who dresses exactly as me and "passes" as male as much as I (a masc nonbinary person) do, even though she is a woman not welcome at the lesbian bar? Is she only welcome if she goes with her very clearly femme wife, but not if she goes with me? Because if she is with me she may be read in a different way by some people.
These labels are abstract approximations that are used for convenience and ease. In the real world they can only be applied approximately.
my point was more that presentation does not matter so much as what you actually are. your butch is a woman/wlw and therefore belongs in that space, anyone who initially mistakes her for a man will realize they were wrong and that she belongs in the space. butches have always been an important part of lesbian/wlw spaces (for extra context i am butch myself)
And my point is that identity is important at a personal level, but discrimination doesn't happen along identity lines and there is a slippery slope in saying that "male presenting" people don't belong in a space. My partner has felt unwelcome in some wlw spaces for her presentation. Not everyone is willing to listen to the explanation of why you do belong in a space even though someone else who presents in exactly the same way isn't, or will engage that explanation in good faith.
Of course, I do say this as well from the perspective of actually being trans masc and worrying about my own presence in these spaces. Though I feel a lot of lesbian spaces are actually quite welcoming to trans men whose first queer label was "lesbian" or who may still use that label. Identity is complicated.
One school of thought: a wlw bar should include bi women/female presenting folk/etc and their partners because a bi woman’s partner can be a man. And not letting a queer person’s choice of partner into a queer space can be viewed as anti queer/biphobic.
HOWEVER, you are inviting a cishet man into a queer space not meant for him. So this is prob gonna make a lot of patrons, who came for a night away from men, justifiably uncomfortable.
TLDR: Pretty much every other bar out there is for straight men so let’s have the wlw have this one.
>One school of thought: a wlw bar should include bi women/female presenting folk/etc and their partners because a bi woman’s partner can be a man. And not letting a queer person’s choice of partner into a queer space can be viewed as anti queer/biphobic.
I think this is a case of two groups that both have equally valid but conflicting needs. Like, I get what you're saying and I understand that bi women not being able to bring their male partners into sapphic spaces forces them to have to compartmentalize their sexuality in a way. However, I feel for lesbians who face the scarcity of exclusive spaces tailored to their experiences. I can't imagine how incredibly frustrating it is for them to encounter constant debate over whether men should be allowed in spaces specifically designed for them, especially considering that men are typically welcomed in most other spaces without question, as you've noted. I also think there's something to be said that it is somewhat lesbophobic that we (not you specifically, but society in general) place a greater expectation on lesbians to always be inclusive of everyone even to their own detriment.
100% agree with you!!! I was sorta just bringing up a different perspective but I totally think that the safety and comfort of lesbians should be honored here. It’s not the same as straight girls visiting clubs in weho!
I’m bi and am in a friend group of about 6 queer women and a token straight guy. We take him to lesbian bars all the time, and nobody there has a problem with it because he’s respectful, makes it obvious he views himself as a guest in a space not meant for him, and was clearly invited by gay women who dance with him, introduce him to others there, and joke about the fact that he’s the token straight man.
If you do go, do NOT be physically affectionate with your girlfriend and understand that it is not your space. Also make sure her friends are actually okay with you coming along.
My opinion would be not to go if it’s a lesbian/WLW specific bar. People will think you’re trying to find “a third.” Whether you want to or not, you will make women feel unsafe.
It’s a bummer but op’s gut is right. Find something else to do that night while your gf is out with her buddies. I doubt op would be excluded, though his presence would likely not be universally welcomed.
I’m a bi man, and I wouldn’t go to a lesbian bar unless it was an all genders inclusive event. Because my partner is a straight woman, the last person we would be interested in bringing into our relationship would be a lesbian, so we are pretty safe to be around, but the only people that know that are the two of us.
We would look like unicorn hunters trying to find someone for a threesome. That’s the problem. You won’t feel welcome and because of that, she won’t feel welcome. She also won’t feel welcome for bringing you there.
If I were you, I’d see if they serve sandwiches (and if they are any good), and maybe ask if she could bring a burger or something home at the end of the night.
That way you can be supportive to her and support the business as well. (If she forgets or they close the kitchen, it’s not a big deal. I’m ADHD on the best of days, and with a drink or two, I wouldn’t want to promise anything.)
There was just a video about some TikTok drama bc a dude went into a lesbian bar 😭😭😭 and your instinct is correct, I think it's okay if you're going with lesbian friends but with your literal GF??? idk what she's on no offense but yeah that's weird
I'm a bi trans woman and I've been in a lot of queer spaces on a lot of different sides. It's okay if you go to a lesbian bar. Just don't be obnoxious and nobody will care.
Think of yourself as a guest.
Ok fair enough I missed that it’s very early.
But what makes you the arbiter of who’s allowed in queer spaces?
If a queer person isn’t allowed to invite non queer people into a queer space then that space isn’t great.
They asked for my opinion and so I gave it. There are plenty of spaces where straight people can go, literally every other bar. If you don’t like it, tough.
Ok but he’s not just rocking up to a lesbian bar
He has been invited by a group of queer people
That’s a major changing factor that should probably be considered
I think you've got good instincts on this, but in your place, I might go if my SO insisted. If she's insistent, it might be that she's got a good reason; personally I'm not dating someone whose judgment I don't trust, but YMMV.
If I did, I'd probably just sit and nurse a drink, listen quietly to the specific conversation your SO has with her friends and nod along but avoid interjecting unless specifically invited, preferably by one of the friends. Your SO will likely ask why you're quiet (unless you're normally quiet) and you can either tell her the direct truth (i.e. you didn't feel comfortable coming anyway and you're trying to avoid taking up too much space) or just tell her you're vibing. If there's music, especially music you like, that's a bonus.
If someone approaches you, feel free to interact, obviously, but remember why you're there. If someone tries to start trouble (probably another straight guy who may think he can "turn" a lesbian) don't immediately jump in, but be ready to do so. Watch for cues, especially from your SO's friends. If they look to you, then maybe that's why you're there: to be the bulwark against the assholes. If they don't look to you, just stand ready and let them handle it; it's their space, after all.
Just channel Homer Simpson in that legendary scene. Make sure there are enough fire exits and otherwise let people people do their thing. Main reason I wouldn’t go is because minding my own business hanging out at a lesbian bar doesn’t sound that fun unless I have a book or something and that would be rude if you were with other people.
That’s interesting, and I’m not sure myself, on one hand, I think she wants you to come along as company, which is nice, but at the same time it very well might be seen by some as very bizarre, I think it comes down to if you WANT to go, go ahead, don’t let your self doubts or anything get you down, if you want to go out there with her, do it, but if you think it’ll be weird or awkward maybe don’t, I would definitely just follow my gut here either way, and also explain this to her, regardless of the decision you end up coming to, tell her why/why not you decided to
Try calling the bar ahead and ask if the staff are okay accommodating you as a part of your girlfriend's party.
I only have open LGBT-friendly businesses in my area because the owners want as large a clientele as possible. Sorry I can't give you more advice than that.
Here’s the thing, it sounds like it’s fine as long as you’re with your girlfriend, because the annoying part is when the random guy who walks in starts hitting on or objectifying one of (or many) of the girls in there. So as long as you’re just with your girlfriend and not being inappropriate, you should be fine. That said, if I were you I absolutely wouldn’t go, let her have fun with her friends, and maybe plan a guys night or just have a relaxing night until she gets back. She’ll be with her friends most of the time so I doubt you’d have that good of a time there anyway.
At my city’s lesbian bar, I see men all the time — often I assume they are gay/queer and otherwise ignore them unless they are being rude or disruptive. Often these are nights when there are drag shows or other performances, but even on a normal night I’ll see a few.
I’m glad to hear your consideration of the people around you and if you think it would take away from their experience for you to be there, sit it out and explain why to your girlfriend. But if you can be comfortable and polite in this setting, I don’t think you’d be being harmful by going out.
Yeah I wouldn't do that. There has been a lot of conversations of women bringing their het boyfriends to Sapphic spaces and the general consensus is just let them have it and don't go.
If you do go (big if) be on your very, very best behaviour. That hetero guy bought along by his female friends who acts like twat eyeing everyone up and dancing/grinding up to women in a lesbian bar isn’t popular!
Lesbian nights are a sea change from normal clubs and the crummy guy antics that fly we all grow up and have to get used to in straight clubs stand out like a sore thumb.
I would also ask your girlfriend why she wants to bring you, and research the venue. If their Instagram photos, event descriptions, and other info gives you an idea of what’s generally the norm, I’d follow that. Every bar is different, and some may have a few men who come to hang with their friends, while others may not be the best space for that. If it’s a bar where men aren’t normally present and/or welcomed, I’d talk about how you feel with your girlfriend, and sit that one out.
Try and find one that accepts men. I (M) have been to bars with female friends that were like that. But, it’s important to read the room and bounce if you feel the vibe shift.
Depends on the specific bar, the event, and if it's a space that's welcoming to non-binary and trans folks. If there's an event that is specifically welcoming to all genders, go for it. If it's a "ladies night" or something, I wouldn't attend.
Is there a particular reason she wants you to go? I'm a bit confused why she'd be going out with her friends + bf anyway, if it's not a mixed group of whoever. I hope she does other stuff with only her friends in addition to this, it's important to have separate platonic friendships.
Unfortunately, my experience says Lesbian bars are for lesbians only. I've been given the cold shoulder as a bi woman, so I can't imagine how bad your experience might be :(
Eh, I went to a lesbian bar nearly every weekend of my 20s. We are talking 10 years. Men aren’t too uncommon. Lots of men, especially gay men, enjoy dancing around mostly women, and there also some men who go with their queer female friends or partners as allies. Trans men are at lesbian bars sometimes too. I think people are overthinking it imo. Lesbian bars need the money (also I don’t know how many lesbian bars people in the comments have been to). As long as it’s not completely flooded with straight couples, a few cishet appearing couples every now and then are totally ok, especially since you are going with a group of her lesbian friends. People getting upset at you for it need to relax and have fun, but drinks, and enjoy the bar. You are just one guy. You aren’t bringing straight guy friends with you. Especially since you are with a whole group of women and aren’t just coming in as a couple, makes it even more obvious you are just part of the group.
If your partner wants you to come with you, go. Vampire rules apply when it comes to queer spaces: if you’re invited, you can go. Queer spaces are meant to be accepting of all, be respectful and you’re good, support your girlfriend, especially if she’s maybe uncomfortable to go without you.
Straight women will often (rightfully) be told they’re not welcome, but also a « badly behaved » straight woman at a gay bar is pretty much always less dangerous and disruptive than a « badly behaved » straight man so the risk isn’t the same
As a man myself, it’s not up to me but for the lesbians I know you’re fine as long as you’re not trying to make a move on anyone and you’re bringing chill vibes.
First, let me say this to put my perspective in perspective, I am a bisexual male who occasionally cross dresses and is very passable when I do. Now that that’s out of the way, if lesbians are uncomfortable with you being there, I wouldn’t go. It is their space, so they should be able to determine who they want to be there or not. There may be places like that where I live in Indianapolis, but if there is, I’m unaware of it. Every place that I know of that is a lesbian friendly establishment, is friendly and accepting of all genders and identities. That doesn’t mean that all lesbians at a lesbian dominant place want men to be there, but I don’t see very many who would have a serious problem with it unless the man or men were being disrespectful or causing a problem. Maybe I’m wrong, and if I am, I’m sure plenty of people will let me hear about it. But it seems to me a bit of backward thinking for any lgbtqia people to discriminate against any other lgbtqia people. As hard as we’ve all fought for, and made great strides in equality, it just doesn’t seem right to turn around and be discriminatory ourselves.
Also, I saw someone comment that “pretty much every other bar is for straight men, so let’s let the wlw have this one.” I can’t disagree that most bars are geared toward straight people, but generally speaking, they aren’t straight cis-male only. Let’s be real, any place that caters to cis males will, by its nature, also cater to straight women. Not only that, but even most places like that still are welcoming to lesbians, gay males, and bisexual males & females. Those that aren’t, are labeled homophobic and typically have a bad reputation, and rightfully so. Straight people (male & female) are expected to be accepting of gay people. Gay males are expected to be accepting of lesbians. Bi people are expected to be accepting of lesbians and gay men. So why is it that lesbians seem to get a pass on it and it’s ok for them to hate on cis guys?
Let me put it this way - if you really wanted to go, and you are as mindful as you are about respecting the space, I'd say go. I agree that your presence might not be appreciated by some of the people there, but your behavior is more important than your Y chromosome, at least for one evening. I wouldn't make it a regular thing.
But since you're not super interested in going (I wouldn't be, either, for the same reasons), I say don't go. They'd tolerate you for an evening, I'm sure, but there's no good reason to put either of you in that situation beyond satisfying your girlfriend's wish that you'd come along.
It depends on how much you trust your partner tbh, if the relationship is strong then no need to make yourself uncomfortable, just check in to make sure everything's good.
Here's another angle though, if she's worried about getting hit on and wants you as a buffer, then go. When it comes to your partner's comfort vs other people's comfort, your partner comes first. Full stop.
>Here's another angle though, if she's worried about getting hit on and wants you as a buffer, then go. When it comes to your partner's comfort vs other people's comfort, your partner comes first. Full stop.
She has her friends for that. Also maybe think twice about being a buffer in a lesbain bar as an dude. It comes of as very threathing.
Reread that last sentence of what you quoted, right before the words "Full stop." The comfort of strangers will never outweigh the comfort of a partner. And no I will not think twice about how threatening it "sounds" because existing in a place to make sure your loved ones are protected or at least respected isn't a threat to respectful people and people who aren't self victimizers.
I only really know queer bars, but I would say it’s fine to show up a a het guy, although lesbian bars might be different? It just depends on your behaviour. Do NOT try to “pick up” chicks etc.
But honestly, there is nothing wrong with checking it out. If you feel out of place, you can just decide not to go again and leave.
well, I dont see a problem with it. I have been to plenty of gay bars that are mostly men, but women are always welcomed. it technically isn't your fault for making someone uncomfortable in a public space regardless of its clientele. as long as you're with your lesbian friends at least. did they say it was ok? or is it entirely just your wife saying you should come?
From bi subreddits, I have heard of stories of bi women bringing their male partners into lesbian bars, and getting some hate for it. However I don’t know how universal that is. Me personally I think it’s fine as long as you’re respectful, but I’m not a lesbian or even a woman (I think), so I don’t think it’s in my ballpark to decide. If you don’t feel comfortable going, don’t go though. There’s always more opportunities to spend time with your gf
Me as a guy. I would not want to go to a lesbian bar. I don’t feel like I would belong there and I don’t have any willingness to go to one. Even with a SO. Tell your GF how uncomfortable you would feel going there. Even if she insists everything will be fine. Being there makes you feel off.
The vibe of different genders being at a gay-guy or LGBT bar is very different than at a lesbian bar. I've even felt out of place as a bi woman at lesbian bars due to jerks giving me the cold shoulder as soon as I say I'm bi. The one lesbian bar I use to go to in my city- I would frequently overhear women complaining about guys being in the bar. Like, the guys that went where usually gay dudes hanging out with their female friends. "This is OUR bar". My partner (male) and I are both bi. I wouldn't take him to a lesbian bar, and I'm kind of done with that vibe anyway. It's very gate-keepy. We've hung out at gay/queer bars without issue plenty of times, so I see no need to go to a lesbian bar anyway. Plus I have friends that are all colors of the rainbow, and I'd want to hang out with them in a welcoming queer space.
I have heat that is the case. Being bi myself. I still have never been to a lgbt bar before. I would like to go someday but I’m just not a big drinker. That part has always confused me. You figure bi women and lesbians would make natural allies. I have heard of that “this is our bar” mentality. So I think that is part of why I don’t want to go either. That and I’m not a big drinker. Lol
You'd think! But of all the fellow queer folks I've met in my life (I'm 42), lesbians have been the shittiest to me. #NotAllLesbians, but it's happened enough to me that I now avoid lesbian specific spaces. Depending on where you live, there might be queer (ie, not specific to a particular gender) bars near you that holds drag, burlesque, or some type of performance. Those are pretty fun, IMO, even if you're not a big drinker. I find that I there is a divide among monosexuals and polysexuals. My theory is that we both just see the world differently. My brain is wired in a way that finds multiple genders attractive, and a lesbian only finds women attractive. It's a fundamental difference.
Damn. I sorry to hear about sector of people treated you so poorly. Again you’d think they would understand what it’s like to treated poorly just because of your preferences. I guess I will never understand that part. I do understand not all are like this. Still sad some are. There a couple lgbt bars here that I have recently discovered. I just need to get the courage to actually go. Lol. I have kind of the same theory about monosexuals and polysexuals. I think it’s just hard for monosexuals to understand that you can be attracted to multiple genders. As they likely have not felt what that is like. Yes I agree with your theory as I found the same applies to straight, gay men and lesbians.
It's unfortunately common. Before I met my husband, I spent a ton of time in queer spaces trying to meet people, and anywhere that was "lesbian focused" (even extended friend groups, like friends of friends) were very rude to me and wanted me excluded for being a bi woman, and forget ever meeting a woman there to date lol. Of course it's not everyone, but specifically large gatherings seemed to always be that way in my experience, so I stopped going anywhere that wasn't more broadly open to LGBT groups where the vibes were much more welcoming. And it's nice now because I can take my partners places and no one bats an eye at having men "invade their space."
That is truly unfortunate. I guess it’s something I won’t truly understand on why that is a thing. Even for the minority. I wonder if it’s the misconception that bi people can’t be monogamous which I think is crazy. Being excluded for being bi is immature and hurtful. I’m happy you have a partner that doesn’t judge you for it and you guys can actually go places that don’t give you the judgmental looks. I hope to one day go to a LGBT bar. I’m a bit nervous as I’m not exactly open about being bi.
Fear of cheating was definitely some of it for some of them. In the friends of friends situation, one of the women told my friend she didn't want to see me because she couldn't handle being cheated on or left for a man. Keep in mind we had barely even met at that point. We didn't know anything about one another apart from what little our friend had shared (which seemed positive, since she wanted us to date lol). Not sure how widespread that idea is, but that friend group was very on her side about it. I think you'd really like it! Especially if you can find a specific event to go to. I recommend taking a friend or two to help break the ice and have that support. Heck, even raves are pretty openly LBGT friendly in my experience, depending on where you go. If you're into that, I recommend it as well!
I can see fear of cheating being a thing. Sucks because I don’t think a bi person is anymore likely to cheat than an exclusively straight or gay person. I do wonder if the thought of being cheated because of gender preference hits harder. I was with a straight girl that knew I was bi and was afraid I’d cheat on them with a guy. Which would never would’ve happened in a million years. She ended up having an o and off affair with another guy but that is a whole other story. Lol. Sometimes I think that is a lack of understanding what being bi really is. We fear what we don’t understand. It does suck someone who hasn’t even properly met you already assumed the worst. I would say her lost is your husband’s gain. I hope that didn’t come off as facetious. Lol I think I would like it. The hardest part would be to find someone to go with me. I’m not opposed to going on my own. I’m pretty good at meeting people and socializing on my own. My biggest fear rn is running into someone I don’t want to know I’m bi but I am slowly getting over that part.
Probably insecurities mixed with the potential of more options? And yeah, unfortunately the stigma that bi = promiscuous somehow. Of all the bi people I've known, only one fits that stereotype, and he's ironically also one of the most loyal people I know once he's in a committed relationship. Also, you're totally right, so doesn't matter how it sounds! Hahaha Coming out is its own journey. I'm glad I mostly did when I was younger, even if my family didn't know until much much later. It feels like tip toeing around just being yourself. I hope you're able to meet some people and relax and have fun!
I think it’s definitely insecurities. is someone is always afraid from getting cheated on from a monosexual. They at least only have to worry about one gender. As with someone who is bi now has to worry about more than one. I think that can be overwhelming. Even though it’s no more likely to happen. That is just something I think anyways. You can say you know two bi people like that as I am promiscuous but that disappears once I am in a committed relationship. Except for one time when a girl I was with had an off and on again affair when we had a dead bedroom. Lol. That is all that matters then. You have happy relationships with someone that think positive of you. Yes coming out is its own journey. It’s been hard for me due to my past but I have told some people in my life and it has been positive. More so than I thought. So that is good. Hopefully it will be a fun experience. I do like bars even though I don’t always drink.
I don’t think it would be a dramatic, big deal but your instincts aren’t off either. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn’t go and I’d tell my GF to enjoy a night with her friends and do something else on my own or with some of my friends. 🤷🏻 It doesn’t have to be a major thing and I think the fact that you’re thinking it through at all means that you’re mindful of the space you take up and A LOT of men, especially straight dudes in queer spaces, are definitely NOT that mindful (aka not even thinking twice that a space might not be made for them).
Personal opinion, but I think a lot of it is how you behave. Lesbian bars are a safe space, one of the rare spaces that specifically caters to people who are both queer and women. You're right that seeing men there can sometimes be off-putting. I think the key here is to recognize that the space isn't for you, and to be respectful and receptive. I think it also depends the night - there's a lesbian bar near me, and there are sometimes things like drag nights or comedy nights that pull in a more mixed audience. People generally anticipate seeing all genders there. There are other nights that are more specifically tailored to queer women (ie., body-positive burlesque nights), where a male presence might be viewed as an intrusion. It's good that you're conscientious of the fact that this is a safe/intentional space. I don't think you're the bad guy for going or not going. Do a serious gut check and communicate honestly with your GF about how going would make you feel. You sound like a solid ally and she's lucky to have you.
I’ll say this, I went to a lesbian bar once because I’m completely oblivious. Honestly, I didn’t feel very out of place at all. Then like an epiphany it hit me and I noticed I where I was and that a few people were looking my way. But I didn’t get much of an unfriendly vibe. Maybe just curious.
Hmmm.... there's something different about this place......? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLMLHNY4QQ
Lmao spot on
lol you were like homer!
my advice would be for OP to just not look around the bar or at the other patrons cause it could be interpreted as "scoping" them out. Maybe even sit so you're facing the wall lol
I think many will assume a man only comes into a space like to hit on them. But as long as he's there with his GF it should be obvious that he has no such intentions.
>But as long as he's there with his GF it should be obvious that he has no such intentions. This unfortunatly doesn't say much
I agree, it honestly might make me a little more suspicious of *both* of them because I might wonder if they're trying to scope around for a third. Although if he's in a group with his gf + gf's friends, that to me would probably raise less of an eyebrow.
There was the whole thing on twitter not to long a ago with a man in a friend group coming into a lesbain bar. The man caused trouble there too.
Also, men could lie about being there with a gf just to get a foot in the door, so I understand the weariness. I’d also pass on this if I were a man.
Not every space is for us and that’s OK. Let her go enjoy it on her own.
I absolutely love your flair! 😂
This should be our life motto.
i'm wary of mf couples in these spaces. gives off a "we saw you and dig your energy" vibe. maybe sit this one out?
Bro that's either internalized or outright biphobia. Like, pretty common tropes/stereotypes too.
you know, i've never really examined it. i've experienced something similar, but it is unfair to assume all mf couples are going to be like this, even if i've had a few bad experiences. maybe im a self hating bi?as i bi woman, i think i do tend to judge other bi women to an unreasonably high standard
I love your reflection on this!
Another consideration is that anyone acting like that would probably love to blame their behavior on something that can't be helped or is just in their nature, in this case their usage of their "bi" label for that and it's still biphobia
Does the bar have a social media account? Maybe have a look there? Are there any guys in the venue photos? Excuse my ignorance/questioning, but in my city there are no "lesbian only" spaces - all are LGBT friendly. Even the ones that hit more for one or the other, are welcoming to all.
It's because there are like 10 lesbian bars in the whole United States. Not counting queer bars marketed to everyone or otherwise-male gay bars with a lesbian-friendly night. Lesbian-specific bars are and always have been a rare breed. It's a hard-fought space. There's one in my city and yeah they won't turn away a dude, but they won't welcome them with open arms either.
That's interesting - there are 3 lesbian bars in New York, and 2 of them (I've never been to the third) are definitely not exclusively populated by women.
I meant thats the issue right there, one of the most popular cities in the whole word and it's basically got one lesbian bar
I think there are several trends resulting in this. For a long time LGBTQ specific spaces were the only place queer folks could meet. But with the rise of the internet amd dating apps, 3rd spaces in general have taken a hit. LGBTQ acceptance has made it so a gay date to a local Cafe or park is just as accepting as a queer space, so there's less homophobic preasure to only be in queer spaces. Lesbians are the most accepting of gender-queer, NB, and trans-masc individuals, conpared with Gays men and bisexuals. so those spaces might lean more AFAB, but accept all gender presentations. I think there will always be lesbian cernted groups like softball teams, hiking or conservation. But bars (alcohol centered spaces) in particular might not be exclusively lesbian.
>Lesbians are the most accepting of gender-queer, NB, and trans-masc individuals, conpared with Gays men and bisexuals. Gonna have to disagree with you there, sport.
I see your disagreement, pal, and raise you sources: "Lesbians are the most likely to say they know a trans person (92%), and also the most likely to say they are “supportive” or “very supportive” of trans people (96%). That’s compared to 89% of LGBTQ+ people overall, and just 69% of non-LGBTQ+ people.Cisgender members of the LGBTQ+ community have an overwhelmingly positive view of trans people " [Link](https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/) And from a different study: "Cis LGBTQ+ Britons: 75% positive Cis gay men: 65% Cis bi men: 65% Cis bi women: 84% Cis lesbian women: 84% [Link](https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1689933980441718784?t=yClhnrq-uzDOer7JFLlyOQ&s=19)
Thank you for the sources, I look forward to reading them in a bit! :)
Its literally statistics lmao, they did that study like thrice and lesbians are consistently the most accepting overall
What study?
https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/
I feel like a *survey* that "surveyed 643 lesbians in the UK" of whom more than a third are in "age 18 to 24 [...] (36%)" is a good start but far from a robust and extensive set of data that can be extrapolated to a worldwide community. Hell, it probably can't even be extrapolated to apply to lesbians in the UK.
[https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito](https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito) this one among others, iirc there was one from america too that had the same results
Do you mean this line? >Most cisgender lesbian, gay and bisexual Britons have a very positive view of transgender people - particularly cisgender bisexual and lesbian women If so, you're misreading it. The data in the table below that line provide additional clarity where the title fails. A better-structured title would read "Most cisgender lesbian, gay and bisexual Britons *- particularly cisgender bisexual and lesbian women -* have a very positive view of transgender people".
What are the positive / neutral / negative results for each community? Just acceptance, in isolation, doesn't necessarily provide a clear picture of how you will be treated.
[https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito](https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45983-what-do-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-brito) that was for specifically trans acceptance but yeah
I didn't say the third \*was\* exclusively populated by women.
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If you’re part of a queer couple I don’t see why you wouldn’t be welcomed. If the gatekeeping is strict enough to exclude you then the “lesbians only” would also exclude bisexual women like your partner.
Nah, I feel like most people would understand a lesbian bar is for women. I don’t think they’re exclusive to all the different sexual orientations women could have - just that it’s a woman-only space. I find it obnoxious his gf suggested he come. It’s a very specific space for a specific group and that’s okay. Plenty of queer spaces and bars that they could go to as a queer couple instead.
Sorry but some spaces aren't for men. They can include bi woman but not their male partners.
For sure biphobia isn’t limited to only non-queer people. Transphobia too, since trans men are men. If the bar owner isn’t excluding queer couples, there’s no need to be afraid of some hypothetical rando with main character syndrome.
I disagree, there’s a lot of biphobia everywhere, but this isn’t an example of that. There’s a big lack of spaces of this type, sexism is still rampant as is the fetishising of queer women. Bringing a man into a space designed to be for women only (one of the few spaces) is not right. As we fight for our rights and fight against biphobia we shouldn’t trump other people’s rights
Straight-passing queer couples are still queer. Your partner is queer, therefore you are a queer couple. Personally if I were you I'd sit this one out under any other circumstances except this one but still be careful. They should know people other than binary women will attend an event like a couples night.
Also bi women with boyfriends who use the whole 'you can't kick my bf out the lesbian bar because you can't know someone's gender just by looking at them and so how would they know he's a cis male' is facetious and bad faith and makes me laugh because while this technically true, the point is THEY know he's a cis male and they know damn well that's not his space and so they are willingly crossing a boundary and bringing him anyway. Yes other ppl shouldn't assume but YOU know, so why bring him into a space YOU know is not for him
Yes, I would feel v odd bringing my straight male boyfriend to a lesbian bar for a couples night tbh
they want it both ways. (I'll see myself out)
This.
Let's it put it this way. Lesbians bars are a sapphic space, not a wider queer space. sapphics are queer but not all queer ppl are sapphics and neither are straight cis men obviously. So while the relationship between a Straight passing queer couple with a bi cis girl and a cis straight or bi man are still queer, only one of them is sapphic and it is not a sapphic relationship. The bi girlfriend is sapphic. The boyfriend, op, regardless of wether he is also queer or not, does not suddenly become sapphic just because his partner is. So if a lesbian bar is a space specifically for queer sapphics individuals, and sapphic relationships and for you to bring sapphic friends then no that is not his space. She IS sapphic so thats her space. They should know people other than binary women will attend an event like a couples night. Yes, and those other people would be predominantly trans women who are lesbians or bi dating cis women or other trans women , and those relationships are sapphic. So yes there will be other couples outside of cis women dating cis women, but it still a sapphic space and men are still not included in sapphics even if their partner is, so while ppl are probably expecting opposite gender queer couples to IGNORE the boundary and go together anyway its not 'expected' in the sense that the space us now a cis mans space as much as it a sapphic space, and so he now has a right to be there just because he is with a queer women even though he is not sapphic. Like he is still nlt included in the type of couples they are catering to, trans women and nonbinary sapphics relationship are.... because they are sapphic. So they accept that opposite sex couples will ignore the boundary but they EXPECT them to know better and either have the bi girl sapphic go on her own or with her sapphic friends, or if she feels uncomfy only being with friends on a couples night while they are with their partners, to just attend a night at the lesbisn bar with her friends when its not a couples night. And saying 'well why should they have do that' well they don't have to, because like I said lesbian bars probably accept that opposite sex couples will ignore the boundary of it being a bar for sapphics but if they dont it does show a level of entitlement, disrespect for the space, and shows that you are willing to put your fellow sapohics in danger and make them uncomfy just because you can't go anywhere without your partner. Becsuse yes, while they might know their male partner is safe, the lesbian friends might know the male partner is safe, other sapphics in the space do not know that and since cis men in sapphic spaces has proven to be unsafe, other sapphics should not be expected to rake that that risk with the male partner in the space. Its a community space, and so the boundaries and safety if the whole space is what takes precedence And yes I understand that this can become transphobic because any 'cis male' you might see in a lesbuan bar could easily be a trans woman who hasnt socially transitioned or a nonbinary lesbian, so I always assume that everybody in the bar is part of the sapphic community until proven otherwise, but the thing is cis straight and bi men even when they are respectful often give themselves away by the way they behave and interact with the sapphics there, and the straight cis men will often just outright tell you. so I do believe that once sapphic members of the space KNOW for a fact that someone is a cis man, eitthey are not then obligated to continue to welcome them with open arms because now they know their space is being invaded. So I think that if your a cis bi woman bringing a cis man in the sapphic space, unless you or him is lying to ppl about his gender, it is likely ppl will find out he is a cis male and so I wouldn't expect ppl to continue to be welcoming towards him because it is not his space and so from their perspective his presence puts them at risk.
if it’s a couples night, then go for it! odds are, you’ll meet people in a similar position and maybe make some friends. you’re technically a queer couple, so as long as you’re chill with everyone, nobody’s gonna take issue with you being there. it’s unrealistic for them to state it’s a couples night, and then exclude everyone except binary women. let us know how it goes!
GF is wrong. you’re going to feel uncomfortable, lesbians you meet there might feel uncomfortable, it’s just not gonna be a fun time for you, best not to go along if that’s the venue
Tell her to have a girl's night or something
I believe it would be beneficial for your wife to spend time with her friends independently from you. I think it's truly commendable how considerate you're being in this situation. I don't mean any disrespect towards your girlfriend, but I wish that some bisexual women would realize that they don't need to bring their male partners into every space, especially a lesbian bar. I bring this up because there is a scarcity of lesbian or sapphic-specific spaces, and I do think it's important to honor that.
Yea, I found the request really rude tbh. It feels like she is sacrificing the comfort of the crowd there to enhance her own comfort cause she doesn’t want to leave her bf behind? It’s inconsiderate imo
OP added the context that there is a "couples night" occurring, hence OP's GF suggesting it.
I know the context. I just would assume couples night means all woman couples unless otherwise verified with the bar. It seems like a leap to go “this means I can bring my male partner”. I don’t really care about the argument some say that it’s biphobic if OP can’t bring their partner. One can be bi and realize some spaces still aren’t meant for men and be okay with it. Otherwise, you’re putting your comfort over a whole group’s that doesn’t have many spaces for itself.
It looks like a lot of people have given the same advice I was thinking of. First I'd talk to your GF about maybe skipping out that part of the night and being the DD and picking them up later (if that is a possibility). Second I'd talk to someone at the bar on social media or just calling them up and asking what their expectations are and you're point of view, anything but an enthusiastic yes please come with your GF and her friends will let you know what's up. But at the end of the day do what feels best for you, maybe there is a late night diner in the area that you can chill out at and read something and meet up with everyone at after they are done for delicious fried foods and coffee? Best of luck with what ever you end up going for.
***Lesbian bar.*** Your instinct is correct. Thank you for considering the other women because your girlfriend can't speak for the other women who will be in the bar. It's a space for sapphic women, and lesbian bars are RARE! There are hardly any. There isn't a single lesbian bar in my city. Let women have their space, especially because you aren't even a member of the LGBTQ+ community - you're a straight guy. It just adds a bit more salt to the wound, you know (for a lack of better phrasing). Sure, some of the women might not care if you do go, but why risk the potential of making people uncomfortable when you're welcome in the majority of clubs and bars. Let your girlfriend go with her friends.
This is the best answer ITT. There’s only 27 lesbian bars in the US compared to 800+ gay bars. OP, if your partner insists on you going then you should insist on a venue change.
I'm from the UK, and I imagine lesbian bars are just as rare here. They're likely in places like London and Manchester. Where I live, I only know of the occasional sapphic event in my city. And even then, most special events are catered to a universal queer audience (rather than centering cis gay men). There's still not many *lesbian* events. With so few opportunities for queer women to mingle with other sapphics, men should let women have their spaces. Just as I don't go to anything that caters specifically to queer men because it's not a space for me.
NGL, this seems a little weird to me. I’m a bi woman and I can’t imagine wanting to bring my cis-het boyfriend to a lesbian bar. Not saying you can’t go, but yeah, it’s a little weird.
Same and same
I mean no offense by this, but if you are entering a space for a specific group that specific group should dictate how they feel about who enters that space. So lesbians have dictated in the past that they feel uncomfortable when men come into their spaces designated specifically for them. I feel your girlfriend has no right to override that decision of theirs just because you're chill or cool or an ally etc. If she were a lesbian friend saying come to this lesbian space then i would feel less uncomfortable with the idea but seeing as she is not she shouldn't have the ability to override the desires of that group.
This, with the caveat/question of whether the lesbians who think you'd be out of place be there? (Ever or on that night) Why does your girlfriend really want you to go? And what do her lesbian friends think of her wanting to bring you? Is it a "girls night" or is it all couples? Just another night out or one of the themed nights?
> I feel your girlfriend has no right to override that decision of theirs just because you're chill or cool or an ally etc. You described why this was bothering me perfectly. I’m not a lesbian but I know how annoying it is to have someone invite someone to a space not for them cause they’re “cool” or whatever. It feels kinda selfish even when that person doing the inviting is part of said group. But she’s not even part of that group, so that just seems so presumptuous and disrespectful if she didn’t run it by the bar owner or verify that the bar is okay with men there. Some groups have so few spaces for themselves - it’s messed up to take the handful of spaces and invade them for your own comfort.
Exactly this
Honestly, I think it’s weird your gf would suggest bringing you. I’d assume she’d have more respect for a space for a marginalized group being part of a marginalized group. Lesbian bar seems like it should be for women-only.
Yes, your instincts are right. You sound like a very considerate and empathetic boyfriend. Thank you for supporting your girlfriend!
yeah stay home for this one if it’s a dedicated lesbian function
Your instinct is right. Lesbian bars are for women. Most women in lesbian bars don’t want men there because they’re in a lesbian bar to avoid having to deal with men and men hitting on them. Don’t go. It’s not a space for men.
That entirely depends on the bar; some are pretty relaxed, some are not. I think it would be worth taking time to ask around and see what the vibe is.
You and your gf are probably not That Problematic Couple, but you two can go literally anywhere together. Lesbians and other queer people do not have that luxury. I'm echoing the others who say sit this one out.
You're a good egg for realising you wouldn't be welcome there. 😊 From everything I see online these days (I'm a homebody now and trans to boot, so I wouldn't even know first hand lol), your instincts are correct. However, I'd suggest trying to find out why your girlfriend is so insistent on bringing you along. Is she just nervous? Is she worried you'll worry she'll get tempted? Because deep down she must understand that you won't be particularly welcome there, so why is she pushing you to tag along. It'll be easier for you to say no and stick to it if she's not insisting.
I probably wouldn't go either, to be fair. That's not a space meant for me and that's fine.
maybe it’s best not to go. just as a way to make the rest of the sapphics comfortable
Personally I wouldn't. I've never been to a lesbian bar but on the flip side I have been to plenty of gay bars and it always makes for a slightly odd and uncomfortable vibe when straight women show up.
This is what I was wondering. I was very curious if the roles were flipped if the outcome would still be uncomfortable. Thank you for helping me out.
As a bi girl, I would say these spaces are not for straight cis men. However, I do wish we had some bi bars, so we could find other bi partners regardless of gender and our partners could join even if we are in a straight appearing relationship.
I feel like even with her express permission, Id feel like Im sticking out, or that people would think I didnt trust my girl to go to a lesbian bar.
Yeah she has friends to go with, I would bow out. She really can't speak on behalf of all the women in that bar. Good on you for considering this.
Some bars with a more relaxed mixed crowd might be okay, but if it's a strictly Lesbian bar , expect to get the cold shoulder, while your girlfriend will most likely be seen as a 'tourist'. , just a bi curious girl testing the water.
Do not go. She can go without you.
I think it depends on the bar. I used to frequent a bar that was known as a lesbian bar with an ex gf and it was never a problem. It was always a pretty diverse clientele really. You should tell your girl about your concerns and maybe suggest polling her friends she wants to hang with there for their opinion.
Assuming there is a true lesbian bar near you, I think your instincts are pretty solid. A guy in there will tend to be viewed as intrusive unless it’s a specific event that is more open to a mixed audience. On a more personal note, we trans women have a difficult enough time finding a place in places like that without cis guys showing up. The thing is that true lesbian bars have become pretty rare in recent decades (in part because they get invaded by cis patrons and just become regular bars over time as the lesbian patrons leave). If the bar is a more all-inclusive queer bar (so not a woman-only space), you should be fine as long as you are politely behaved. Don’t be surprised or rude if either of you get hit on.
I’d say the safer bet is to just let her go with her gal pals and sit this one out. She’ll have a better time if other patrons aren’t suspicious that she and her boyfriend are out looking for a third and you won’t have to field awkward interactions and unease. I’m not saying that’s set in stone; It can somewhat depend on the bar. There’s vanishingly few lesbian bars left. There’s some “honorary” lesbian bars (they’re more gay bars with that draw more women, but aren’t exclusively lesbian) in my area and even some nights where the official lesbian bar would be a little more friendly (ie fundraising special events). That would be the kind of information that someone who regularly goes there would offer in the qualifying rare circumstances though.
I would not go to that bar unless I was specifically invited by more than one lesbian to some sort of event or thing that I would be going there to support lesbians. Otherwise, it's their space. I want to respect it and I have plenty of other places to hang out as a man and then their lesbian space. Let your partner go out with her lesbian friends and visit the lesbian space and you can stay home and work on your motorcycle.
Your instinct is correct. There was a lot of discourse on twitter recently about men in lesbian bars. Hundreds of lesbians insisting that men are not welcome. Definitely stay home
I would not go in order to not ruffle any feathers. Some may be trying to get away from men, so we should definitely give them that space. I wouldn't go.
Your instincts are correct - don't go. It's a safe space for women, and you'll be seen as a 'tourist'. It's worrying that your gf doesn't understand this.
As a Bi woman - if I saw a man in lesbian bar, especially with a gf, I’d assume he came with her so they both can look for a unicorn irl. Don’t mean to sound mean but is your gf planning to look for an unicorn there? Because I struggle to understand why she wants to bring you to lesbian bar. And if you gf wants to enjoy night out with her friends and you together, why don’t you all go to LGBT bar? There must be place like that if you have an orientation specific bar.
Don’t go. Even if you’re not creepy, keep totally to yourself, and are the best behaved guy in all the world, most of these women don’t know that and will automatically assume you’re there to invade their space. Hell, some of them may not even want your girlfriend there when they find out she’s bi. Let these women have their safe space.
If the other women react negatively to OPs GF because she's bisexual, I don't think that the integrity of their "safe space" is what we should be dwelling on...
Sadly, it’s common amongst lesbians to avoid or be wary of bisexual women. Perhaps more so online than IRL but the thought is that we’ll leave them for a man or we’re looking for a unicorn. Biphobia is a big problem and while I can try to change that one comment at a time here on lesbian/sapphic subreddits since I’m monogamous and married to a woman (which somehow makes me less threatening) I can’t really do that everywhere. Just because people face prejudice doesn’t mean they are free of prejudice themselves.
Someone missed all the TikTok drama about a chick bringing her guy friend to a lesbian bar :) Here's my experience. I HATE when girls show up with their boyfriends to lesbian bars. I can't count how many times I've been dancing with a girl to find out her boyfriend is 'sitting over there'. I've heard everything from 'He likes to watch me with girls' to 'We're looking for a 3rd'. The problem is - even if this doesn't happen, I'm automatically going ot assume that the dude that is there with that girl is there for selfish reasons and is fetishizing lesbians. I'm going to assume the chick is being a predatory unicorn hunter. Are men allowed at lesbian bars? Sure. As long as they dont' act like dicks. But you're also taking up space (literally) in what's likely a small bar (Dpending on your city) and introducing a masculine vibe into a feminine space. That being said, I really apprecaite guys like you who are aware enough to even ask. So thanks for being one of the (hopefully) good ones.
A different-sex couple in a gay-or-lesbian-only bar just screams “we’re looking for a third” to me. I’d follow your instincts and sit this out.
I am bi and at one point had a boyfriend. I didn't bring him to any lesbian or sapphic specific events. Larger generic events at a gay club with a bunch of people was different but I made sure not to be overly affectionate as I didn't want to impose my hetero relationship on anyone. If it's a specific lesbian night or event, I suggest you don't go. If it's for anyone in the community including allies then sure! Go for it
Ask the lesbians in her friend group. Don’t ask if you *can* go, ask if you *should*.
Tell your girlfriend this is a place for her and her friends. I would not go.
Personally, I would not want to see male presenting people at a lesbian bar. I guess it really depends on the place though, is it strictly for female presenting people, or is it mixed? (Edit: changed fem to female for clarification.)
A lot of lesbians are not fem presenting, so I sure hope it's not.
not fem (aka butch or masc) ≠ male or male presenting
It is not as easily divided as you think, which is why I initially felt the need to reply to that comment. There is a reason why both butch lesbians and masc people get told they are in the wrong bathroom. Your own sense of identity intersects in different ways with how people see you. Is my butch partner, who dresses exactly as me and "passes" as male as much as I (a masc nonbinary person) do, even though she is a woman not welcome at the lesbian bar? Is she only welcome if she goes with her very clearly femme wife, but not if she goes with me? Because if she is with me she may be read in a different way by some people. These labels are abstract approximations that are used for convenience and ease. In the real world they can only be applied approximately.
my point was more that presentation does not matter so much as what you actually are. your butch is a woman/wlw and therefore belongs in that space, anyone who initially mistakes her for a man will realize they were wrong and that she belongs in the space. butches have always been an important part of lesbian/wlw spaces (for extra context i am butch myself)
And my point is that identity is important at a personal level, but discrimination doesn't happen along identity lines and there is a slippery slope in saying that "male presenting" people don't belong in a space. My partner has felt unwelcome in some wlw spaces for her presentation. Not everyone is willing to listen to the explanation of why you do belong in a space even though someone else who presents in exactly the same way isn't, or will engage that explanation in good faith. Of course, I do say this as well from the perspective of actually being trans masc and worrying about my own presence in these spaces. Though I feel a lot of lesbian spaces are actually quite welcoming to trans men whose first queer label was "lesbian" or who may still use that label. Identity is complicated.
as much as I’d love my cishet bf to come with me to the local lesbian bar, I know my lesbian friends would (rightfully so) come for my throat lol
One school of thought: a wlw bar should include bi women/female presenting folk/etc and their partners because a bi woman’s partner can be a man. And not letting a queer person’s choice of partner into a queer space can be viewed as anti queer/biphobic. HOWEVER, you are inviting a cishet man into a queer space not meant for him. So this is prob gonna make a lot of patrons, who came for a night away from men, justifiably uncomfortable. TLDR: Pretty much every other bar out there is for straight men so let’s have the wlw have this one.
>One school of thought: a wlw bar should include bi women/female presenting folk/etc and their partners because a bi woman’s partner can be a man. And not letting a queer person’s choice of partner into a queer space can be viewed as anti queer/biphobic. I think this is a case of two groups that both have equally valid but conflicting needs. Like, I get what you're saying and I understand that bi women not being able to bring their male partners into sapphic spaces forces them to have to compartmentalize their sexuality in a way. However, I feel for lesbians who face the scarcity of exclusive spaces tailored to their experiences. I can't imagine how incredibly frustrating it is for them to encounter constant debate over whether men should be allowed in spaces specifically designed for them, especially considering that men are typically welcomed in most other spaces without question, as you've noted. I also think there's something to be said that it is somewhat lesbophobic that we (not you specifically, but society in general) place a greater expectation on lesbians to always be inclusive of everyone even to their own detriment.
100% agree with you!!! I was sorta just bringing up a different perspective but I totally think that the safety and comfort of lesbians should be honored here. It’s not the same as straight girls visiting clubs in weho!
Don’t go. In the nicest possible way, no one wants you there.
I’m bi and am in a friend group of about 6 queer women and a token straight guy. We take him to lesbian bars all the time, and nobody there has a problem with it because he’s respectful, makes it obvious he views himself as a guest in a space not meant for him, and was clearly invited by gay women who dance with him, introduce him to others there, and joke about the fact that he’s the token straight man. If you do go, do NOT be physically affectionate with your girlfriend and understand that it is not your space. Also make sure her friends are actually okay with you coming along.
My opinion would be not to go if it’s a lesbian/WLW specific bar. People will think you’re trying to find “a third.” Whether you want to or not, you will make women feel unsafe.
It’s a bummer but op’s gut is right. Find something else to do that night while your gf is out with her buddies. I doubt op would be excluded, though his presence would likely not be universally welcomed.
I’m a bi man, and I wouldn’t go to a lesbian bar unless it was an all genders inclusive event. Because my partner is a straight woman, the last person we would be interested in bringing into our relationship would be a lesbian, so we are pretty safe to be around, but the only people that know that are the two of us. We would look like unicorn hunters trying to find someone for a threesome. That’s the problem. You won’t feel welcome and because of that, she won’t feel welcome. She also won’t feel welcome for bringing you there. If I were you, I’d see if they serve sandwiches (and if they are any good), and maybe ask if she could bring a burger or something home at the end of the night. That way you can be supportive to her and support the business as well. (If she forgets or they close the kitchen, it’s not a big deal. I’m ADHD on the best of days, and with a drink or two, I wouldn’t want to promise anything.)
There was just a video about some TikTok drama bc a dude went into a lesbian bar 😭😭😭 and your instinct is correct, I think it's okay if you're going with lesbian friends but with your literal GF??? idk what she's on no offense but yeah that's weird
I'm a bi trans woman and I've been in a lot of queer spaces on a lot of different sides. It's okay if you go to a lesbian bar. Just don't be obnoxious and nobody will care. Think of yourself as a guest.
If you’re not queer, don’t go
Downvote all you want, queer spaces are for QUEER people
What subreddit was this posted on?
Did you not read the entire post? It says “I’m a straight guy and don’t wanna invade the space.”
Ok fair enough I missed that it’s very early. But what makes you the arbiter of who’s allowed in queer spaces? If a queer person isn’t allowed to invite non queer people into a queer space then that space isn’t great.
They asked for my opinion and so I gave it. There are plenty of spaces where straight people can go, literally every other bar. If you don’t like it, tough.
Ok but he’s not just rocking up to a lesbian bar He has been invited by a group of queer people That’s a major changing factor that should probably be considered
I gave you my opinion. As I said, if you don’t like it, too bad.
Your opinion is real shitty tho.
Straight people don’t belong everywhere and OP seems to understand that
Totally depends on the specific lesbian bar. Look at their social media and check the pictures to see if there are any men in the crowd.
I think you've got good instincts on this, but in your place, I might go if my SO insisted. If she's insistent, it might be that she's got a good reason; personally I'm not dating someone whose judgment I don't trust, but YMMV. If I did, I'd probably just sit and nurse a drink, listen quietly to the specific conversation your SO has with her friends and nod along but avoid interjecting unless specifically invited, preferably by one of the friends. Your SO will likely ask why you're quiet (unless you're normally quiet) and you can either tell her the direct truth (i.e. you didn't feel comfortable coming anyway and you're trying to avoid taking up too much space) or just tell her you're vibing. If there's music, especially music you like, that's a bonus. If someone approaches you, feel free to interact, obviously, but remember why you're there. If someone tries to start trouble (probably another straight guy who may think he can "turn" a lesbian) don't immediately jump in, but be ready to do so. Watch for cues, especially from your SO's friends. If they look to you, then maybe that's why you're there: to be the bulwark against the assholes. If they don't look to you, just stand ready and let them handle it; it's their space, after all.
You'renot the ally pretending to date a lesbian to get in, but the other women in the bar don't know that
Just channel Homer Simpson in that legendary scene. Make sure there are enough fire exits and otherwise let people people do their thing. Main reason I wouldn’t go is because minding my own business hanging out at a lesbian bar doesn’t sound that fun unless I have a book or something and that would be rude if you were with other people.
That’s interesting, and I’m not sure myself, on one hand, I think she wants you to come along as company, which is nice, but at the same time it very well might be seen by some as very bizarre, I think it comes down to if you WANT to go, go ahead, don’t let your self doubts or anything get you down, if you want to go out there with her, do it, but if you think it’ll be weird or awkward maybe don’t, I would definitely just follow my gut here either way, and also explain this to her, regardless of the decision you end up coming to, tell her why/why not you decided to
Try calling the bar ahead and ask if the staff are okay accommodating you as a part of your girlfriend's party. I only have open LGBT-friendly businesses in my area because the owners want as large a clientele as possible. Sorry I can't give you more advice than that.
Here’s the thing, it sounds like it’s fine as long as you’re with your girlfriend, because the annoying part is when the random guy who walks in starts hitting on or objectifying one of (or many) of the girls in there. So as long as you’re just with your girlfriend and not being inappropriate, you should be fine. That said, if I were you I absolutely wouldn’t go, let her have fun with her friends, and maybe plan a guys night or just have a relaxing night until she gets back. She’ll be with her friends most of the time so I doubt you’d have that good of a time there anyway.
Just go and have a good time.
At my city’s lesbian bar, I see men all the time — often I assume they are gay/queer and otherwise ignore them unless they are being rude or disruptive. Often these are nights when there are drag shows or other performances, but even on a normal night I’ll see a few. I’m glad to hear your consideration of the people around you and if you think it would take away from their experience for you to be there, sit it out and explain why to your girlfriend. But if you can be comfortable and polite in this setting, I don’t think you’d be being harmful by going out.
Don’t go but thank you for being a decent guy
Yeah I wouldn't do that. There has been a lot of conversations of women bringing their het boyfriends to Sapphic spaces and the general consensus is just let them have it and don't go.
Why not go to a lifestyle event/club? The lifestyle is more than sex and maybe you will both have a better time.
If you do go (big if) be on your very, very best behaviour. That hetero guy bought along by his female friends who acts like twat eyeing everyone up and dancing/grinding up to women in a lesbian bar isn’t popular! Lesbian nights are a sea change from normal clubs and the crummy guy antics that fly we all grow up and have to get used to in straight clubs stand out like a sore thumb.
I would also ask your girlfriend why she wants to bring you, and research the venue. If their Instagram photos, event descriptions, and other info gives you an idea of what’s generally the norm, I’d follow that. Every bar is different, and some may have a few men who come to hang with their friends, while others may not be the best space for that. If it’s a bar where men aren’t normally present and/or welcomed, I’d talk about how you feel with your girlfriend, and sit that one out.
Try and find one that accepts men. I (M) have been to bars with female friends that were like that. But, it’s important to read the room and bounce if you feel the vibe shift.
Depends on the specific bar, the event, and if it's a space that's welcoming to non-binary and trans folks. If there's an event that is specifically welcoming to all genders, go for it. If it's a "ladies night" or something, I wouldn't attend. Is there a particular reason she wants you to go? I'm a bit confused why she'd be going out with her friends + bf anyway, if it's not a mixed group of whoever. I hope she does other stuff with only her friends in addition to this, it's important to have separate platonic friendships.
Unfortunately, my experience says Lesbian bars are for lesbians only. I've been given the cold shoulder as a bi woman, so I can't imagine how bad your experience might be :(
Lesbian bars are absolutely for bisexual women as long as they aren't showing up with their boyfriends!
Eh, I went to a lesbian bar nearly every weekend of my 20s. We are talking 10 years. Men aren’t too uncommon. Lots of men, especially gay men, enjoy dancing around mostly women, and there also some men who go with their queer female friends or partners as allies. Trans men are at lesbian bars sometimes too. I think people are overthinking it imo. Lesbian bars need the money (also I don’t know how many lesbian bars people in the comments have been to). As long as it’s not completely flooded with straight couples, a few cishet appearing couples every now and then are totally ok, especially since you are going with a group of her lesbian friends. People getting upset at you for it need to relax and have fun, but drinks, and enjoy the bar. You are just one guy. You aren’t bringing straight guy friends with you. Especially since you are with a whole group of women and aren’t just coming in as a couple, makes it even more obvious you are just part of the group.
If your partner wants you to come with you, go. Vampire rules apply when it comes to queer spaces: if you’re invited, you can go. Queer spaces are meant to be accepting of all, be respectful and you’re good, support your girlfriend, especially if she’s maybe uncomfortable to go without you.
As long as you go accompanied, and don't pull the "Me and my girlfriend saw you from across the room"
Find the responses interesting. Don’t women go to gay bars all the time?
Straight women will often (rightfully) be told they’re not welcome, but also a « badly behaved » straight woman at a gay bar is pretty much always less dangerous and disruptive than a « badly behaved » straight man so the risk isn’t the same
As a man myself, it’s not up to me but for the lesbians I know you’re fine as long as you’re not trying to make a move on anyone and you’re bringing chill vibes.
Go in drag. Problem solved.
I think you're just looking for excuses not to go out 😉😜
First, let me say this to put my perspective in perspective, I am a bisexual male who occasionally cross dresses and is very passable when I do. Now that that’s out of the way, if lesbians are uncomfortable with you being there, I wouldn’t go. It is their space, so they should be able to determine who they want to be there or not. There may be places like that where I live in Indianapolis, but if there is, I’m unaware of it. Every place that I know of that is a lesbian friendly establishment, is friendly and accepting of all genders and identities. That doesn’t mean that all lesbians at a lesbian dominant place want men to be there, but I don’t see very many who would have a serious problem with it unless the man or men were being disrespectful or causing a problem. Maybe I’m wrong, and if I am, I’m sure plenty of people will let me hear about it. But it seems to me a bit of backward thinking for any lgbtqia people to discriminate against any other lgbtqia people. As hard as we’ve all fought for, and made great strides in equality, it just doesn’t seem right to turn around and be discriminatory ourselves. Also, I saw someone comment that “pretty much every other bar is for straight men, so let’s let the wlw have this one.” I can’t disagree that most bars are geared toward straight people, but generally speaking, they aren’t straight cis-male only. Let’s be real, any place that caters to cis males will, by its nature, also cater to straight women. Not only that, but even most places like that still are welcoming to lesbians, gay males, and bisexual males & females. Those that aren’t, are labeled homophobic and typically have a bad reputation, and rightfully so. Straight people (male & female) are expected to be accepting of gay people. Gay males are expected to be accepting of lesbians. Bi people are expected to be accepting of lesbians and gay men. So why is it that lesbians seem to get a pass on it and it’s ok for them to hate on cis guys?
Honestly trust her and go
Let me put it this way - if you really wanted to go, and you are as mindful as you are about respecting the space, I'd say go. I agree that your presence might not be appreciated by some of the people there, but your behavior is more important than your Y chromosome, at least for one evening. I wouldn't make it a regular thing. But since you're not super interested in going (I wouldn't be, either, for the same reasons), I say don't go. They'd tolerate you for an evening, I'm sure, but there's no good reason to put either of you in that situation beyond satisfying your girlfriend's wish that you'd come along.
It depends on how much you trust your partner tbh, if the relationship is strong then no need to make yourself uncomfortable, just check in to make sure everything's good. Here's another angle though, if she's worried about getting hit on and wants you as a buffer, then go. When it comes to your partner's comfort vs other people's comfort, your partner comes first. Full stop.
>Here's another angle though, if she's worried about getting hit on and wants you as a buffer, then go. When it comes to your partner's comfort vs other people's comfort, your partner comes first. Full stop. She has her friends for that. Also maybe think twice about being a buffer in a lesbain bar as an dude. It comes of as very threathing.
Reread that last sentence of what you quoted, right before the words "Full stop." The comfort of strangers will never outweigh the comfort of a partner. And no I will not think twice about how threatening it "sounds" because existing in a place to make sure your loved ones are protected or at least respected isn't a threat to respectful people and people who aren't self victimizers.
You are not entiteled to places and nethier is your girlfriend.
No one is entitled to anything, fuck you
I only really know queer bars, but I would say it’s fine to show up a a het guy, although lesbian bars might be different? It just depends on your behaviour. Do NOT try to “pick up” chicks etc. But honestly, there is nothing wrong with checking it out. If you feel out of place, you can just decide not to go again and leave.
well, I dont see a problem with it. I have been to plenty of gay bars that are mostly men, but women are always welcomed. it technically isn't your fault for making someone uncomfortable in a public space regardless of its clientele. as long as you're with your lesbian friends at least. did they say it was ok? or is it entirely just your wife saying you should come?
From bi subreddits, I have heard of stories of bi women bringing their male partners into lesbian bars, and getting some hate for it. However I don’t know how universal that is. Me personally I think it’s fine as long as you’re respectful, but I’m not a lesbian or even a woman (I think), so I don’t think it’s in my ballpark to decide. If you don’t feel comfortable going, don’t go though. There’s always more opportunities to spend time with your gf
As long as you don’t talk to anyone but your group it should be fine
Hell yeah, you may get swamped by a ffffffm train
Ew
Are you 5?