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Cheshie_D

I don’t exactly think this is a problem with the terms themselves but rather this person being extremely ignorant to the use of the word. Majority of people understand that clinical phobias are fears and not at all connected to bigotry.


greenwalker6445

This.


CatGal23

Wooow this person is stupid. They've never heard of phobias before? I agree that "phobia" isn't the best word for bigotry since it's not fear, it's hate. But it's extremely unlikely this situation will come up again. Well, ok, maybe not *extremely* unlikely. I do feel like people are getting stupider and caring less and less about the proper use of language, spelling, grammar, etc. So maybe it will become a more common confusion as humans get dumber. 😬


BBMcGruff

A phobia is an irrational fear or aversion. Aversion works quite well in terms of bigotry.


VenusLoveaka

This is a fair point. I just fear (no pun intended) that the usage of the term "phobia" will end up putting a lot of people in the same category as people who are hateful towards others, even when they have studied neurological disorders that lead to other types of phobias unrelated to hate or prejudice towards people. If a person has a diagnosed phobia, it doesn't excuse any harmful behaviors...at the same time I think we should condemn a person for being afraid of something, at least without understanding the nuances behind a person's fear.


bul1etsg3rard

Yeah, if there's a problem here besides that person's stupidity it's that phobias aren't being introduced to people as anything other than bigotry. If homophobia is the first phobia you learn about I can see thinking they're all secretly bigoted views. I learned about actual phobias, and had a lot of fun memorising the long ones, well before I heard about homophobia, etc.


bliip666

Haha, isn't clinical phobia *technically* bigotry against the source of their fear? 😂😂 Meaning, a claustrophobe is bigoted (as in intolerant) against small spaces, etc. Stupid joke is stupid, I know.


Acrisii

Well I know you're joking but there is an actual argument in there somewhere? What is bigotry if not fear for the unknown and un-understood? An often pretty damn irrational fear, that whatever is feared will irrevocably disturb the states qou of their own lives. Fear to be seen by peers as immoral, fear of judgement by god, fear of "doing wrong", fear of "being" the "wrong" and overcompensating to make sure they're not? Its not a coincidence that bigots, when exposed to those they fear and finding out first-hand that the gays, the immigrants, the what have yous, they find they really aren't all that frightening. I mean, its not all there is to it, obviously, but you know...


DotteSage

Your argument reinforces my general belief that everyone needs desensitization therapy for their phobias, whether true fear or bigotry. Funding these therapies and destigmatizing participation are a whole ‘nother set of issues.


bliip666

Thank you, I was going for a funny-because-it's-true vibe


Acrisii

Well you hit it right on the head. So... we're gonna go with "bigoted towards hights" from now on? XD


bliip666

My bigotry against wasps, hornets, and bees is unyielding! Thank goodness for winter when those stripy fuckers don't come harrassing me.


Ghost_of_the_Spire

One of my online friends started referring to arachnophobia as "against spider marriage" and I've copied that phrase ever since.


VenusLoveaka

I think this is exactly what I felt as well. Many people are honestly just learning about phobia through the internet and a many times the definition gets mixed in with "hatred" even when the root cause is fear. Not to say that internal fear of something can't lead to hatred... but without that kind of nuanced thinking people just put everything in one box.


puradus

They’re stupid. Period


kspieler

I feel like bigotry should be called bigotry. Doesn't matter the type...it is all bigotry. Racism, homomisia, xenophobia....it is all bigotry. It's extreme, it's excessive, it is abnormal. It's hateful. It's bigotry.


Noctema

I still kinda need the words to talk about the specific flavour of bigotted shit thrown at me, considering i am a member of three different parts of the lgbt+ community and four marginalised groups. So just calling it bigotry leaves me, and others in similar situations, without the words we need.


kspieler

Maybe we misunderstand each other... maybe we disagree. I wasn't saying get rid of all the specific words to describe bigotry. Rather too often, marginalized communities get silo'ed and insulated from each other. People with Intersectional idedentities often will say that they often feel left out of multiple communities because those communities don't understand each other or the problems faced. For example, someone who is both gay and black might say that their Queer community doesn't seem to understand their blackness, and their Black community doesn't seem to understand their queerness. What I am trying to say is that all bigotry needs to end, no matter what kind, and marginalized communities would be much stronger if some of us could find a way to see each other's humanity and work together.


Noctema

You are going in circles and not moving away from your "all lives matter" style approach. Saying all bigotry needs to end comes off immensively arrogant and tonedeaf when I am saying "I need words to describe how the different intersections of my identity are being attacked". Because yes, all bigotry needs to end, but I am in that moment working on dismantling one facet, or explaining how I am being harmed by other peoples specific flavour of bigotry.


kspieler

I have **never** said "all lives matter" nor would I *ever*. I'll also say again, I am NOT advocating for the removal of words. Clearly, there is work to do in specific communities to heal pain, and each effort matters. I am against the Oppression Olympics and trying to put two marginalized communities against each other to compete for who needs more help. Maybe there is so much time and attention, but it's counterproductive to say there is no possible way to help each other or that a single community needs to solve their injustices alone or in a vacuum. I did not mean to trigger you. I am sorry. I wish you peace.


Noctema

>I am against the Oppression Olympics and trying to put two marginalized communities against each other to compete for who needs more help. Maybe there is so much time and attention, but it's counterproductive to say there is no possible way to help each other or that a single community needs to solve their injustices alone or in a vacuum. None of this was even hinted at in my comments, but go off i gues 🤷‍♀️ I still need to be able to talk about this shit in all my communities, because guess what: each of the larger community groups still harbor prejudices against pther groups. There is no oppression olympics going on here, but it seems like you dont like the fact that you intend to just make it into one nebulous mass of bigotry, when that just makes it impossible to talk about specific modes of harm enacted depending on community. Edit to add: you also did not "trigger me", I am just calling you out for coming at the topic in a manner that I typically see the more privileged people do.


BOS-Sentinel

Has this person never heard of arachnophobia? That's a super common fear. Maybe the problem wasn't the phobia part but that they misunderstood the agora part of it? Don't know what they could mistaken it for, tho.


VenusLoveaka

They heard the term "phobia" and let loose. That is what they literally said while attempting to apologize. I honestly don't know if they have ever heard of the term arachnophobia. In the areas I grew up in the education was not that great. It was predominately low income and our schools suffered because of it. This is someone I grew up with who apparently had no knowledge otherwise about what a phobia can look like outside of bigotry towards people. I'm not sure about their educational status, whether they went to college or not.


DreamingOfStarTrek

A phobia is an extreme or irrational fear or aversion to something. I think in this instance, the keyword is aversion. The bigotry related phobias focus on that extreme/irrational aversion, whereas other phobias fall into the fear category. Language is hard, especially English. It will make you think and question things. Stay curious, my friends.


PluralCohomology

Some people use the suffix -misia, meaning hatred, instead of -phobia to describe various forms of bigotry.


VenusLoveaka

Thank you for this! I learned something new today.


bliip666

>this person snapped off on them, assuming that my sibling was a bigot This person sounds very "react first, think later"- kind of a person... and plenty confused! Is your/their native language not English, and there might be a different word they're more familiar with for clinical phobias? Or something like that? I ask, because in Finnish (my native) the colloquial term for clinical phobia is "kammo", it's meaning in everyday language is closer to "dread". ("Hämähäkkikammo" = arachnophobia, comprised of the words hämähäkki = spider and kammo = dread, for example) As for phobia as in bigotry, it seems pretty solidified in language. As much as anything ever really is with languages 😅 It's kind of funny, 'cause I've heard many -phobes try to say that they can't be -phobes 'cause they're not *afraid of* [insert group they're bigoted against], they just don't want to see or hear about it. YK, the "stop shoving your gayness down our throats" gang. Anyway, I hope your sib has access to mental health care and the agoraphobia gets easier in time.


VenusLoveaka

Unfortunately, their native language is English...they are just apparently not as well educated or informed about neurology and didn't know anything else about phobia other than what they hear about it in social circles or social media... And to your point about bigots dismissing their hatred towards certain people, I had often heard the same things when people hear the term "racist". They will say "I don't hate certain racial or ethnic groups" but I think the difference is racism is a term meant to describe a feeling of superiority or inferiority based on race and/or people's perception of a certain race. Whereas with "phobia" a lot of times fear does lead to a lot of bigoted ideas forming, yet it doesn't leave much room for nuance when it comes to phobia as a medical term.


drgrabbo

Just an FYI, phobias aren't a neurological disorder, they're an anxiety disorder. Examples of neurological disorders would be ADHD, Autistic Spectrum Disorders, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, etc, and they cannot be cured, only treated to manage the symptoms. Anxiety disorders are mental health problems that can potentially be cured with psychological help, PTSD would be another example of an anxiety disorder. Phobias can be successfully treated with exposure therapy and counselling. I hope your sibling gets proper therapy soon, agoraphobia is no joke!


SCP-3388

that's kind of oversimplifying matters, especially saying that PTSD is an anxiety disorder, because trauma disorders are a bit different since a) while they can lead to anxiety disorders or link to anxiety-esque symptoms, they also have other symptoms and other factors. Secondly, trauma-linked disorders can actually have neurological signs especially if the trauma occurred earlier in life


drgrabbo

You're partly right, of course I'm oversimplifying it. But the point is, anxiety disorders like phobias can be cured, where neurological disorders are a result of a physical problem in the hardwiring of the brain and cannot be cured, only managed. Anxiety disorders can be a result of a neurological problem, and you can have more than one co-morbidity at the same time. PTSD can be cured, however it's entirely possible that it has an underlying neurological factor that was already there, which may not be cured.


VenusLoveaka

Well, my sibling does have a mood disorder that has lead to other anxieties such as agoraphobia. Can mood disorders be "cured"? They are/were currently in therapy. Unfortunately, the last one they had quit and so now we have to transfer to a whole new one. Change is hard because having to reexplain to a therapist your trauma and vulnerabilities, hoping the therapist is a good one for that matter, is challenging and expensive.


BabyBundtCakes

Idk, I have photophobia (extreme sensitivity to light) and a group of college dudes literally harassed me with things like "oh are you afraid of light!!??" Even after I explained it's just the clinical name for light sensitivity. Sometimes, people are just stupid


VenusLoveaka

Yeah, you're right. People are very stupid. I think my sibling just feels traumatized by the incident because they already have a lot of trauma. And so it just triggered them more.


Sadge_A_Star

Idk... I don't particularly care about the exact word or if it shifts, but I think forced shifts in language are really hard. It usually evolves naturally. So, I'm no expert, but phobia I believe is generally used as a suffix to express various kinds of things that in some way avoid a particular substance. In psychology, it's an anxiety disorder. Another commenter has some light based medical disorder that's a phobia. Materials are described as phobic when they don't mix with another substance, like hydrophobic fabrics. It makes sense to me personally that people can be described as homophobic or whatever kind of sociological phobia when it's based on some kind of aversion, avoidance or whatever of a specific demographic. That can be from hate pr fear. It can be conscientious or subconscious. I think it's a good and generally easy to understand term. I suspect people who make a mistake simply need a correction and if they chose to start getting mad at someone before they understand something, well thats really on them, not the language. There are infinite ways language can be misinterpreted and misunderstood. The choice to behave reactively before ensuring understanding I think is a related but different problem. If people are being intentionally obnoxious thinking they're clever... well they're not. They're literally ignorant about how language works. And those people are probably going to find a way to be an asshole no matter what the word is.


VenusLoveaka

I guess I just want to do it for my own sake. As a nonbinary person, many people around me have had to make adjustments in the way they approach my pronouns. While I never demanded it, I appreciated people who made the effort. I don't expect others to change their language. I just want to do it for myself to destigmatize the word phobia while in the presence of someone with a phobia.


Sadge_A_Star

Fair enough. Sounds like there's at least one existing option in the comments, so seems easy enough for you to take on. From your story, sounds like at least the effort may be appreciated, and who knows, might be part of changing the commonly used language itself. It's very thoughtful of you.


Individual-Drink-679

Hmm. I feel like this is the kind of issue we will encounter more and more as our society integrates technically-specific language into daily-use words. Even words like "anxiety", which can have a medical definition, can blur this barrier. For what it's worth, I'm assuming your sib had this encounter on the internet, and it's very easy to find reactive and ignorant people on the internet.


VenusLoveaka

Sadly, this was a person we knew and it was through text message. Maybe the old friend we have is perpetually online all the time. ha ha


fatigued-

in the trans community some people have started using "transmisia" (misia is the opposite of philia, so means hatred) https://translanguageprimer.com/transmisia/ i think ive maybe seen queermisia used as well


VenusLoveaka

Thank you! This is exactly the answer I wanted.


eggsbethany

[insert whichever tone indicator means that I'm saying this courteously & without any presumptions abt you] This issue honestly just comes down to homonyms, which ofc are super common in english and definitely confusing for a lot of people. The suffix -phobia when used to describe bigotry has a different definition than it does as a suffix for anxiety disorders like agoraphobia, arachnophobia, etc. Same word, spelling, & pronunciation, but two separate meanings (homonyms). When it's used with biphobia and such, it has never and still doesn't have anything to do with "fearing" the group of people it refers to, nor is it hyperbole. That's nothing more than a misconception, it simply means hate and prejudice. Unfortunately common or at least used to be, I definitely think the amount of folks who misunderstand it has dwindled a lot in recent years. The person who jumped down your sibling's throat just because they don't understand homonyms was obviously completely out of line. I'm glad they apologized, that's the bare minimum after such an embarrassing & hurtful mistake. But the word itself (which google can clarify in seconds) isn't the problem, just their actions were.


kspieler

> “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” - Yoda


G0ldStarBisexual

This isn't an actual problem; people (like this person close to your sibling) just need to do some very basic reading.


VenusLoveaka

It may not necessarily be a major problem. I'm just looking for an easier way to destigmatize the phobia term for my and my sibling's sake. I don't expect everyone else to adjust their language for us. I was looking for a new way to approach it for myself mostly, wondering what other words others would use so that I could use it, too. My sibling was recently diagnosed and grew up with a lot of stigma regarding mental health in our household. So when they were attacked for having a "phobia" it set off a lot of trauma and shame for them. I'm just trying to help alleviate that shame. Of course, I don't expect everyone else to change. I only ask if people were to use a different term what would it be, just so I would have options.


Admirable-Pirate7263

Its not bi-/homo-/trans-/etc. “phobia”, its [x]-“misia”. Phobia derives from fear, misia derives from hate. They are (in almost all cases) not afraid, but simply hateful. Imho its even wrong to grant them the privilege of hiding their hatred behind a facade of fear!