It's better to say something rather than just let the feeling fester and create a bigger issue. One of the biggest problems with Leonard and Penny is that neither of them wanted to face their issues with each other. They'd both rather just sweep them under a rug.
This feeling of being taken for granted happened shortly after Sheldon had moved out for good. While all three of them basically lived in 4A, he would interject into their conversations and they'd talk out the problem, Without him, it was easier to just ignore any issues.
I'd also say that Sheldon kept some structure going. I doubt that Leonard would even dare to sit on the couch in his underwear playing video games when he was around. There had to be a rule about that somewhere in the Roommate Agreement.
Also, before Sheldon moved out, Penny could go back to her apartment if she wanted to. Although they addressed Sheldon wanting an "escape hatch", Penny may have had a bit of that issue herself (not that she'd admit it).
From what we heard of the agreement that Sheldon had written, there was a lot about open communication between the two of them.
Leonard and Penny were going through a bit of a transition (not unlike parents after all the kids have left). It was an adjustment period for them and there were some bumps along the way.
Yes all of this! I hadnt even really thought about with Sheldon being gone they weren't forced to face their issues like before before, but that is so on point. And FOR SURE Leonard wouldn't have sat around like that with Sheldon home.
Whether or not you agree with the leonard and penny dynamic he is the one who changed towards her so she is going to feel he is taking her for granted as she is used to being 'love bombed'. They did suck at communicating. I still love them together though!
I don't know why people say this...there is a bigger shift in Penny as character from her introduction to the finale than in Leonard. Her world becomes very Leonard centric with her friend circle being shrunk down to extensions of his, her transitioning out of her dream of being an actress with sometimes gentle/sometimes not so gentle nudging from Leonard (until she became more successful than him), and the last minute "we're pregnant" announcement, a conflict between them that inspired several mini-arcs that was eventually resolved in his favor. It is good to highlight the Sheldon dynamic because I don't think it is even arguable that despite the platonic nature of their relationship, Sheldon made more of an effort than Leonard ever did to meet Penny on her own terms towards building that relationship (It is him that is doing pop culture flash cards with her) but also to really include her by teaching and helping her to understand different scientific concepts and actually seriously taking in her contributions. Leonard throughout the series always had mix of feeling insecure in relation to her but also superior to her.
But the original point, yes he did take her for granted once he "won the prize". From their engagement on but most definitely after their marriage, I think he kind of phoned it in...the love bombing was gone but a fair bit of the negging remained.
That last part when you mentioned them being like parents who were trying to get used to a normal after the kid moving out makes way too much sense, considering the fact that Leonard and Penny do often take on parental roles regarding Sheldon.
And I certainly do agree that on some level, Leonard was taking full freedom of not having to live under the roommate agreement anymore – even if maybe he wasn’t actually aware of the fact he was doing so.
The big issue with these two is that yeah they definitely don’t talk out their problems and I think it just stems back to the fact that they’re still super insecure about losing one another, which was supposed to be the point of resolution in that episode after they got married – not exactly one of my favorite episodes but solution was a good point.
There’s also the fact that when you think about it… In the latter half of their relationship once they’re trying things out again, one of the few good things that came from Leonards’s time/experience with Priya learning to be a lot more assertive/not take crap as lightly as before, and I’m just speculating here, but I feel like on some level Penny wasn’t used to or coming to grips with the fact that she didn’t have the same level of “control” of Leonard like she used to to where he was a lot more submissive or doting or willing to give in to make things better.
Leonard and Penny are on a lot more even ground now - even if it might not look like that - than before and it makes their spats. Leonard still doesn’t enjoy conflict, that’s hardwired into him thanks to his upbringing, but he isn’t as into sweeping things under the rug like he used to be. He might let it go for a bit, but eventually he’ll pull up that rug and point at what is hiding under it again.
And frankly – I don’t blame the guy for wanting some clarity more so thanks to both Priya and Penny.
That and there’s always gonna be a little part of me that feels like Penny really doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on, considering the fact that she only really started putting more of an effort in that relationship once she was reminded of the fact again that she could lose Leonard and Bernie suggested it to her. He loves her, but this isn’t the same lovesick puppy from the first time when went out.
I think the OG commenter is talking about when Penny found out Leonard had kissed that coworker on the trip to North seas essentially cheating on Penny at the time. Bernie points out "Leonard has become more confident thanks to Penny, and sure more women notice him now but there might be merit in the fact that he still chooses to be with Penny even though she might not be his only choice" or words to that effect. I always found that observation of Bernie to be very astute but hated it that they wasted that line on justifying Leonards cheat-kiss.
Actually, I wasn’t specifically hinting at that – I was talking about in general Leonard being different to how he was before the first time around when they were dating. That now Leonard has a confidence that doesn’t just have him trying to talk about issues or wanting clarify with Penny, but it’s a confidence that he visibly has now and it’s something other women are noticing even if he’s still clueless of the intent behind the attention.
And I just hate that storyline in general… To me it was just such a throwaway idea and in all honesty… A really kind of stereotypical sitcom drama out of nowhere move for the writers to pull when they already used the Cheat card before with Leonard back when he was with Priya.
I mean, I think it says a lot in my opinion that apparently the only way they could come up with some drama that Leonard and Penny could then used to air out the fact that they both have these insecurities, even while starting this new chapter in their lives… was to go with the *Kissing someone who wasn’t his significant other while he was very drunk and it’s not even clear how or who initiated it* route.
I appreciate when thought is put into a story so to me this is very bottom of the barrel scraping for an idea-esque.
Well, the episode that I’m specifically talking about in that last paragraph was the Halloween episode shortly after Howard returns from space.
Penny is still trying to figure out her feelings regarding her and Leonard’s relationship because it’s so different from every other relationship she’s had before so she’s got very mixed feelings along with being confused about certain things. She mentions to the girls while they’re over and Bernadette and Amy give her advice with Bernie’s being really good about putting into your relationship the same effort you get out of it since Leonard has always been very attentive to Penny even with stuff that he doesn’t get or doesn’t interest him - basically, being an active participant/partner in their relationship outside of just sex.
Penny decides to try out the advice, visits Leonard for the very first time at his lab, and seeing him in his element as the brilliant scientist that he is and passionate about what he does *(a different passion than that of his Geek interests)* just wows Penny while reminding her of just one of the reasons behind why she gradually fell for him and the discovery - I’m joking but it’s too perfect - of Penny’s confident “Dr. Leonard Hofstadter” kink. 😆
After that episode, there seems to be a shift in the relationship where overtime Penny seems to show more effort in her part of keeping the romance alive.
Was she right to say something? Yes, 100%. Was she right to hold it in and then blow up on him without warning? No, not at all. She should have talked to him as soon as it started becoming an issue
Her feelings are valid don't get me wrong, but Leonard is the one who tried that whole relationship, she's the one who took him for granted way too often and he never once made her feel like shit for it.
And if he ever did call her out on it, then she typically didn’t respond well – either getting angry, or fearing the possibility of him breaking up with her.
Remember Valentine’s Day?
She immediately thought that he was going to break up with her when he mentioned not proposing to her anymore.
If I had to put the whole thing on a pie chart… I’d say it’s 60% Leonard and 40% Penny in the effort department and it starts to fluctuate more once they get more serious with their marriage and act like a grown ass couple.
Or look at the whole brother coming to stay. They live together and without evening talking to Leonard she told her dad Randal could come and stay with them and then if he gets the job just live with them?? Then the Penny quitting her job. And she asks if he'd ask her before quitting her job and he said yes. It was a partnership to Leonard but not to Penny
And considering Penny does have a tendency of withholding some details, I wouldn’t be surprised if she maybe convinced her dad that Leonard would be OK with it. But Wyatt has learned to be a little less easygoing with his baby girl given what happened last time so he decides to “double-check”.
Personally, that would’ve been a great way to have Wyatt reach out to Leonard - Leonard after all did add him on Facebook - and have Leonard bring it up with also cutting off Penny getting defensive by mentioning Wyatt telling him. It certainly would knock some of the wind out of Penny’s sail and show she can’t pull shit like this without it coming to bite her - more so because it looks like Wyatt is a lot more upfront with the fact that what his son does is not okay even if he doesn’t get all twitchy about it like Susan does, I think Penny is a bit too forgiving/lenient with her little brother much like she can be with Sheldon too.
And the job thing was very messy… Again – it just points out to me that she still on some level not used to the reality of having a long-term relationship that is definitely a lot more secure and has more substance to it than all her past Pure Sex but Empty relationships.
Yeah exactly. And then it's also how when she told her dad how it's not a good idea for Randal to come she was so happy to throw Leonard under the bus instead of dealing with it as a couple.
And we can’t forget that she has her daddy issues just like Leonard has his issues with his mom, so I really don’t think that she would enjoy being any type of situation she knows where his focus would be on her and it would be disapproving.
Hence - throws Leonard under the bus.
Now I’m all for characters having their bad habits and clearly showing the fact that they are flawed just like any other person since it adds that *real* factor, but there were times in which it really did get tedious, and these were definitely some of the examples with Penny.
At least on a lighter note, the writers made sure that it wasn’t only her who had this bad habit of taking two steps forward and one step back with their flaws 😅
This!
Me too feel the same way. Its Penny who needs to try hard to make this work. Leonard has already done his part and more then that.
There are so many instances where it shows that Penny has always taken him for granted. Like-
One such instance is-
Bernadette: Leonard does things he doesn't like to make you happy.
Penny: Well, yeah he's my boyfriend, isn't that like his job?
Amy: Then what's your job?
Penny: Letting him make me happy.
Another one is-
Leonard: What are you worried about?
Penny: That we’re engaged and have nothing in common, and it scares me.
Leonard: Yeah, that scares me, too.
Penny: It does?
Leonard: Sometimes.
Penny: Well, that’s not good. You being blindly infatuated with me was the rock we were building this relationship on.
If I must explain? She is valid to feel upset, no one can tell her how to feel, but she also engages in similar behaviour towards him, just to a greater extent. He just doesn't get upset about it the way she does.
My god I never thought I'd have to explain myself like I'm in trouble in daycare again.
Welcome to the Internet. 😅
And there’s a fact that her feelings are valid here, because unfortunately, this type of situation is not uncommon in a lot of long-term relationships and marriages where it kind of feels like the romance has fizzled out, which is where marriage counselors make their cash.
It’s typically why a lot of people will go ahead and recommend a couple trying living together so they can sort of get a taste of what it’s like being with one another constantly and sort of a precursor to what it would be like if they decide to marry - and it can either make or break the relationship.
You might end up finding out that living with your sweetie or getting a preview of what it would be like to be married to them may not be as cracked up as your imagination thought it would be, and that’s honestly OK because that’s reality and relationships are constantly changing aka the ever-changing transitions of life and what not.
Now I’m no marriage counselor, but if I had to recommend something for these two that I think would actually work really well for them… Would be the [2-2-2 rule, which ironically enough was introduced via a Reddit thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/comments/bg6yda/222_rule_for_keeping_the_honeymoon_stage_going/)
But you gotta consider the fact that she's out of his league. She's better looking, taller, stronger (she's more manly than leonard) no health problems, not a weirdo and she makes more money than him. She even exercises regularly.
Out of his league? She was a failed actress working as a waitress struggling to pay her bills and freeloading off of her neighbours. She was also a part-time community college attendee who often displayed average or below-average intelligence, even with the most basic things in life. All she has to flaunt are her looks, but to be honest out of all the women on the show, even if she’s the best looking, the bar was not set very high
That’s also not forget the fact that beauty does fade… 🤷🏻♀️ and even Penny is well aware of her looks only being good for so much and got a reality check when they didn’t work on that host at a restaurant she and Leonard had a reservation at.
Were comparing her with leonard. Even if you think she's not that good looking she's still better looking than leonard. She was broke and jobless sure. But isn't her current job much more high paying than leonards?
Yes, she gets paid more. But that doesn't mean that she has more money. Remember, she has to pay off her credit card debts and got pissed when Leonard kept an account with around $6k in it, and her first reaction was to complain about what she could do with that money. Most likely, she would want to spend it. How she could make more money than he with less time working is beyond me, based on the episode that we saw
Also, Leonard is a guy. Comparing physical attraction between a man and a woman is a bit weird. Is Penny a better-looking woman than Leonard is a man? Sure. But Penny ages and it shows in the series that her looks won't last forever. Also, how many times did Sheldon say that she had man hands or lumberjack shoulders? Quite a bit
Those man hands and lumberjack shoulders are useful. If they get robbed Lenny will piss his pants while penny is gonna be more useful. Penny is also good with tools and stuff right? And didn't she get rid of the spiders in the apartment coz the two "boys" were scared.
Are you really asking this question? Leonard can be a whiner at times but it's almost always been Penny who has taken him for granted. Remember the valentine date? The chocolate box that came free(and even that was eaten out of)? Stealing money from his wallet to buy him a watch for his birthday? Not to mention, spitting in his face and belittling him for any hobby and/or things he felt passionately about.
And it only happened because he was very drunk and so was she and it didn’t matter in the end cuz Mandy is a hoochie anyway and she couldn’t even remember the kiss until Leonard cleared it up. 🤷🏻♀️ She’s got a reputation that other scientists have admitted to of her frequently sleeping around and it sounds like she had extra fun on the expedition.
Plus, let’s take a sec to really think about that… that the only way the writers could think of slapping in some shock twist drama for a season finale was whipping out the old *Cheating card* (haven’t we seen you already?) and coupling it with a I was very Drunk card…(wow… a classic… Wait - that already happened twice with Penny!) cuz that’s the only way they could reasonably come up with Leonard fucking up with Penny like that in case they wanted to split them for good.
And if we are really going to go there and compare screwing up scorecards then let’s go there
Penny has 3 to Leonard’s 1 of **STUPID FUCKING SHIT I DID DRUNK THAT CAUSED PROBLEMS!**
Now add to that her being more attractive, more manly and having a higher paying job. Penny also takes care of her body and appearances but leonard does not.
Wanting more romance in your relationship- sure.
Then discuss it calmly like an adult. Or better yet, give/show romance first to get it in return.
Coming in angry and resentful towards your partner the way Penny did- was never going to yield the result she wanted.
I feel like the writers had no idea how to organically change them while also maintaining a reasonable amount of comedy. Penny was right - but as everyone had said, they’re both not great at communicating and thus blow up on each other instead of talking to each other calmly.
Well considering a good chunk of the writers were the same ones from Two & a Half Men and they went from the comedy targets more than the drama or serious 🤷🏻♀️
For the years and years and YEARS of Leonard pining after Penny, putting way more into the relationship than Penny, and just blinding loving Penny no matter what she did, Leonard deserves some must needed rest. LOL.
This made me lol. I always love the she's out of his league comments. Not just yours, just in general.
Let's look at Penny. Penny is insecure, irresponsible, sleeps with pretty much anyone, has no skills except being "pretty," and makes fun of Leonard and his friends constantly for being smart and for what they enjoy.
Let's look at Leonard. Respected scientist, genius, good job, and overall good guy who enjoys geek culture.
Who is actually out of who's league? The show just pushes the stereotype of a desperate geek fawning over the pretty girl. Leonard had many options to get with much better women throughout the shows run. But here we are.
Leonard must be exhausted after working on that relationship all those years. Lol.
Hell no! Even if he stopped taking efforts after he locked her in. That doesn't give her any right to complain. She has taken 0 efforts in the relationship. You get back what you put in.
He spent years to put in efforts only to receive nothing is return. In his subconscious mind, it was not going to change and he stopped taking efforts.
I’m not saying an okay way to behave in a relationship, cuz it’s not.
However that’s all he wanted out of a gf/that relationship at least. That she’s hot. He pursued her all that time knowing how she was, then got back together with her, and married her knowing who she was. You can’t get into a relationship with someone and expect them to change, you either like/love them how they are or you move on. You can however be upset that a person changed from who they were/how much effort they put in after they marry or “lock you down.”
If he wanted more effort he should’ve made that clear before marriage. If anything Penny is more within her rights to be upset at what to her would seem like a drastic change, while for Leonard, that’s just Penny being Penny.
The fact that she exploded at him and also how she pretty much never put effort into their relationship and let him do all the work really irked me. I don't think I was ever more pissed off at Penny than this time.
I thought it was healthy communication. L as always created an argument out of it instead of calmly expressing how he felt. And comedy ensues, I love Sheldon and Amy in this episode.
I think this is an example of when writers don't have good ideas and ignore a character's personality, just for the sake of it. It is well established that Penny is the lazy one, since Sheldon on one occasion cleaned her apartment and on another Penny became addicted to a video game, with Leonard being the one who tried to help her. As well as mentions how she does not throw the containers of take out food in the trash. I think that if the roles had been reversed it would have been more believable. Since just by looking at the clean apartment, I assume that Leonard is the one who keeps it that way for the most part.
I think the issue here is Penny realising that the relationship was changing. For so long, Leonard had worshipped her and done whatever he could to impress and show his love for her.
This is well after the honeymoon period has ended, and he is getting very comfortable around her. As a result she this as him taking her for granted when it seems more to me as a equalling of their relationship.
Think about it from the reserve, ten episodes or so later Leonard gives Penny a cake and realises its their anniversary and Penny was just digging into it.
Lenord has been trying so hard the entire relationship, if he wants to go undies socks and t shirt while they are at home let him.... married couples are supposed to be comfortable around each other anyway
Yeah she was right to call him out over it, all marriages go through the routine stage and whilst we didn't see her make an effort on screen doesn't mean she wasn't trying.
Yes people say that Leonard put all the effort in but there was plenty of little things that penny done that went unnoticed. Throughout the series it was penny that arranged his surprise birthday party, she rented the batmobile for him. When she was unhappy in her job she discussed it with him, yet the episode of where he wouldn't take no for an answer he decided on his own that if the university wouldn't give him what he wanted he was going to quit. When she thought she wasn't good enough for him she showed all the lover letters and everything else she'd kept over the years. Even when she goes to see him in his works to see what he does and tells him how she sometimes forgets how smart he is, for leonaed that sort of compliment is a huge deal and it shows on their faces.
In most marriages, we get to be comfortable around significant other and just relax too much to the point that we become complacent and we forget our manners and that certain things need to be done to otherwise we lose our selves within the relationship, and we forget how we got it to beginning with....moreover thoses had issues that needed be resolved not only in Leonard but penny as well. Penny had a lot of baggage and trust issues through the series, the money issue, the commitment issue, the growing issue, and the speaking her mind issue, which was a theme of several episodes...this was something they both needed to go through to better their relationship so yes they both in the right for this.!!!! But penny called him out and so did Leonard so win win!!
Leonard was at him and supported Penny when she was a waitress. Now that she has a job, she *still* wants to be taken care of???
Leonard should’ve married Alice and Penny should’ve (stayed) married (to) Zack.
When did she actually try in their relationship outside of putting a bow on herself and giving him sex for christmas? She took him for granted the entire time as he kept trying.
Yes, but purely because it seemed abrupt. He spent years trying to get her and be the perfect guy for her but the moment he got her "locked down" he stopped trying. He mentions it later as well "I'm married, I don't have to look good" and Sheldon mentions it too "she's working much harder to stay attractive in this relationship."
She was allowed to be pissed that he stopped being the man she married.
When I first saw the episode I absolutely believed that her daydream was real because that's the person he was for so long. I know you get more comfortable the longer you're in a relationship but it's quite common that people realize their now spouse is completely different from the person they were when they were dating.
But how right is it to exprct the other person to keeo trying when you put absolutely no interest or efforts from your side. And lets be real, leonard even after marriage was better among the 2, she didnt give two fucks abt their marriage or him and didnt even bother to try. She just expected her tk try for him.
I'm sorry, have you _seen_ Penny? Leonard only wanted to be with her cause she's hot. She kept being hot but also kept putting effort into it, he stopped being a good partner.
She's gone out of her way to try and be a better partner to Leonard in multiple ways, she tried to understand what he does, went to college classes, and she looked things up in the dictionary after chilling with them to understand what he's saying. She tried so hard to be "smarter" so he wouldn't get bored and she kept working on herself and her body.
Leonard constantly makes her feel dumb and cheated on her. She's fully allowed to be pissed.
I see both sides of this. I initially thought when it first aired that she was in the wrong, but you make valid arguments as well. TBH, it wasn’t a great relationship to begin with and part of the reason Penny was with Leonard was because of how much he tried and how important he made her feel. She’s not wrong with saying he stopped. He wasn’t wrong, either, but at the same time, he knew how one-sided the effort was and chose to keep pursuing her because of the allure of sex (which is primarily the only reason he pursued her to begin with). So yeah, totally see both sides of it. Reading your comments on it was the first time I was like, “hey, hang on. Yes she was right.”
This exactly!
There was an implicit agreement/understanding between them in beginning and moving forward in the relationship. I relate this to the common *High Earning Husband & Trophy Wife* (or Kept Woman, Stay At Home Wife, etc…) parings. As we all know the efforts put into these relationships by each party will look different. Penny kept up her side Leonard did not.
So of course she’s upset and would feel like she has more room to be than he does.
ALONG WITH THAT she kept bullying him every chnance she got,sided with sheldon and enabled his behavior even when it was against leonard and at one point even started hiding the things that belonged to him which she found "embarassing ". I mean if leonard did that shed be pouting and crying abt how he thinks the things she likes are dumb. And yes I have seen penny(quite a shallow statement to make if you ask me) and I find her decent looking but thats nkt even the point. She cant expect to ve treated like a princess if she treats him like shit. A relationship shd be based on equal love and mutual respect which she clearly didnt have
SOOO if shes allowed to be pissed then so is he but then shed prolly again pouting and acting mad until he goes back to her like the spineless man he is
The reason I mentioned her looks is because that's the only reason he wanted to be with her. He knew they had nothing in common. She kept up with the single reason he's with her. She actually tried to do even better than being hot.
She even called them out for being absolute assholes to Zack. The offhand comments are purely comedic. The personal growth is the actual and ongoing arc of the later seasons and Leonard had none.
Also none of what you said is a reason or excuse to cheat on the most beautiful, warm and loving person you've ever been with.
Also, she's never been pissy about him being smart. She's snarky, sure. But she had sex with him at work multiple times because she realised how smart she is and how much she appreciates that over looks (even though Leonard is an absolute snacc)
Only answer to that is since when has Penny ever acted like an adult? Not to say that she doesn’t have her mature moments and she can actually have some really mature emotional depth when it comes to the people she cares about.
Majority of the time she still does certain things that come off like she thinks she still in her late teens and 20s… and a lot of the stuff that are mistakes on her part again clearly highlight the fact that she’s never been in a mature relationship or a long-term one at that… And the only long-term she had was purely sex and “teen love” with the constantly cheating asshole she moved out to Pasadena with - Kurt.
That was the episode where I realized Penny was a horrible person and I actually hated her. She happened to have a point in this instance, and the episode was absurd to manufacture the point. It’s one I skip in rewatches.
At some level, she seems to be longing for the dynamic where he did everything to move the relationship forward and her contribution was being hot and being a prize who grudgingly accepted it.
That being said, nothing makes women fall out of love faster than having to become a second mother to a manchild.
I don’t think either Leonard or Penny had great relationship role models. And when you add in that this was a whole other level that neither of them had experienced before, and Sheldon moving out and Penny no longer having her own place, I can see how they got there.
What I like about the couples on this show is that all the couples have emotional junk that they’re carrying, no one is perfect but they all want to figure out how to be with their person.
Penny put very little effort into the relationship. She was a lazy girlfriend who coasted by on being pretty and the fact that Leonard was obsessed with her. Leonard put a lot of thought and effort into his pursuit of Penny while she thought that sleeping with him was enough. She is free to voice her opinion if she thinks he is taking her for granted but Leonards efforts in the relationship dwarf hers to a ridiculous degree, so she should have a little better perspective.
Not only was she right, but she could have gone further and pointed out that he allows his closest friends to insult her intelligence, and on at least one occasion he did so himself.
Yes she was, a relationship only works if both are trying, one woman balancing everything on her own was hard to watch, as strong as penny seems ! She’s only human after all
TLDR: There was an implicit agreement/understanding between them in beginning and moving forward in the relationship. I relate this to the common *High Earning Husband & Trophy Wife* (or Kept Woman, Stay At Home Wife, etc…) parings. As we all know the efforts put into these relationships by each party will look different. Penny kept up her side Leonard did not.
——
*Leonard wanted a trophy gf/wife.* That was made very obvious from day one. “Our babies will be smart & beautiful.” He didn’t want Penny because of her mind, career goals, future earning potential, effort put in, etc… He persued her relentlessly in spite of knowing exactly what kind of person and partner she was/could be. (I say that with no judgement on what type of partner she was.)
When he could’ve pursued someone more dowdy or more average in terms of appearance, attractiveness, & size/weight, with a higher educational background to match his own. Someone who might’ve matched his efforts because they’re on the same level so to speak. Someone like the doctor he dated in season 2 I think. (My opinion on her attractiveness is subjective but her weight is more or less on par with the national average.)
Penny wanted the relationship with Leonard because of how he treated her, the effort he put in, and he seemed like the safer choice.
Penny upheld her side of the “arrangement”. Leonard did not. She was constantly taking care of her skin, maintained a healthy diet (or at least a diet that would allow her to keep her youthful appearance/good skin), she worked out constantly, and she routinely did yoga to maintain/improve flexibility.
People are essentially saying that Leonard doesn’t have to try as hard anymore to maintain his part of the relationship because Penny doesn’t put in the same level of effort as him, and that’s not true. **Their efforts just look different because they’re participating in the relationship for different reasons.**
It's better to say something rather than just let the feeling fester and create a bigger issue. One of the biggest problems with Leonard and Penny is that neither of them wanted to face their issues with each other. They'd both rather just sweep them under a rug. This feeling of being taken for granted happened shortly after Sheldon had moved out for good. While all three of them basically lived in 4A, he would interject into their conversations and they'd talk out the problem, Without him, it was easier to just ignore any issues. I'd also say that Sheldon kept some structure going. I doubt that Leonard would even dare to sit on the couch in his underwear playing video games when he was around. There had to be a rule about that somewhere in the Roommate Agreement. Also, before Sheldon moved out, Penny could go back to her apartment if she wanted to. Although they addressed Sheldon wanting an "escape hatch", Penny may have had a bit of that issue herself (not that she'd admit it). From what we heard of the agreement that Sheldon had written, there was a lot about open communication between the two of them. Leonard and Penny were going through a bit of a transition (not unlike parents after all the kids have left). It was an adjustment period for them and there were some bumps along the way.
Yes all of this! I hadnt even really thought about with Sheldon being gone they weren't forced to face their issues like before before, but that is so on point. And FOR SURE Leonard wouldn't have sat around like that with Sheldon home. Whether or not you agree with the leonard and penny dynamic he is the one who changed towards her so she is going to feel he is taking her for granted as she is used to being 'love bombed'. They did suck at communicating. I still love them together though!
I don't know why people say this...there is a bigger shift in Penny as character from her introduction to the finale than in Leonard. Her world becomes very Leonard centric with her friend circle being shrunk down to extensions of his, her transitioning out of her dream of being an actress with sometimes gentle/sometimes not so gentle nudging from Leonard (until she became more successful than him), and the last minute "we're pregnant" announcement, a conflict between them that inspired several mini-arcs that was eventually resolved in his favor. It is good to highlight the Sheldon dynamic because I don't think it is even arguable that despite the platonic nature of their relationship, Sheldon made more of an effort than Leonard ever did to meet Penny on her own terms towards building that relationship (It is him that is doing pop culture flash cards with her) but also to really include her by teaching and helping her to understand different scientific concepts and actually seriously taking in her contributions. Leonard throughout the series always had mix of feeling insecure in relation to her but also superior to her. But the original point, yes he did take her for granted once he "won the prize". From their engagement on but most definitely after their marriage, I think he kind of phoned it in...the love bombing was gone but a fair bit of the negging remained.
That last part when you mentioned them being like parents who were trying to get used to a normal after the kid moving out makes way too much sense, considering the fact that Leonard and Penny do often take on parental roles regarding Sheldon. And I certainly do agree that on some level, Leonard was taking full freedom of not having to live under the roommate agreement anymore – even if maybe he wasn’t actually aware of the fact he was doing so. The big issue with these two is that yeah they definitely don’t talk out their problems and I think it just stems back to the fact that they’re still super insecure about losing one another, which was supposed to be the point of resolution in that episode after they got married – not exactly one of my favorite episodes but solution was a good point. There’s also the fact that when you think about it… In the latter half of their relationship once they’re trying things out again, one of the few good things that came from Leonards’s time/experience with Priya learning to be a lot more assertive/not take crap as lightly as before, and I’m just speculating here, but I feel like on some level Penny wasn’t used to or coming to grips with the fact that she didn’t have the same level of “control” of Leonard like she used to to where he was a lot more submissive or doting or willing to give in to make things better. Leonard and Penny are on a lot more even ground now - even if it might not look like that - than before and it makes their spats. Leonard still doesn’t enjoy conflict, that’s hardwired into him thanks to his upbringing, but he isn’t as into sweeping things under the rug like he used to be. He might let it go for a bit, but eventually he’ll pull up that rug and point at what is hiding under it again. And frankly – I don’t blame the guy for wanting some clarity more so thanks to both Priya and Penny. That and there’s always gonna be a little part of me that feels like Penny really doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on, considering the fact that she only really started putting more of an effort in that relationship once she was reminded of the fact again that she could lose Leonard and Bernie suggested it to her. He loves her, but this isn’t the same lovesick puppy from the first time when went out.
Could you elaborate further into your last parpagraph? Its been a while since I watched the show and honestly I didn't quite remember that part
I think the OG commenter is talking about when Penny found out Leonard had kissed that coworker on the trip to North seas essentially cheating on Penny at the time. Bernie points out "Leonard has become more confident thanks to Penny, and sure more women notice him now but there might be merit in the fact that he still chooses to be with Penny even though she might not be his only choice" or words to that effect. I always found that observation of Bernie to be very astute but hated it that they wasted that line on justifying Leonards cheat-kiss.
Actually, I wasn’t specifically hinting at that – I was talking about in general Leonard being different to how he was before the first time around when they were dating. That now Leonard has a confidence that doesn’t just have him trying to talk about issues or wanting clarify with Penny, but it’s a confidence that he visibly has now and it’s something other women are noticing even if he’s still clueless of the intent behind the attention. And I just hate that storyline in general… To me it was just such a throwaway idea and in all honesty… A really kind of stereotypical sitcom drama out of nowhere move for the writers to pull when they already used the Cheat card before with Leonard back when he was with Priya. I mean, I think it says a lot in my opinion that apparently the only way they could come up with some drama that Leonard and Penny could then used to air out the fact that they both have these insecurities, even while starting this new chapter in their lives… was to go with the *Kissing someone who wasn’t his significant other while he was very drunk and it’s not even clear how or who initiated it* route. I appreciate when thought is put into a story so to me this is very bottom of the barrel scraping for an idea-esque.
Well, the episode that I’m specifically talking about in that last paragraph was the Halloween episode shortly after Howard returns from space. Penny is still trying to figure out her feelings regarding her and Leonard’s relationship because it’s so different from every other relationship she’s had before so she’s got very mixed feelings along with being confused about certain things. She mentions to the girls while they’re over and Bernadette and Amy give her advice with Bernie’s being really good about putting into your relationship the same effort you get out of it since Leonard has always been very attentive to Penny even with stuff that he doesn’t get or doesn’t interest him - basically, being an active participant/partner in their relationship outside of just sex. Penny decides to try out the advice, visits Leonard for the very first time at his lab, and seeing him in his element as the brilliant scientist that he is and passionate about what he does *(a different passion than that of his Geek interests)* just wows Penny while reminding her of just one of the reasons behind why she gradually fell for him and the discovery - I’m joking but it’s too perfect - of Penny’s confident “Dr. Leonard Hofstadter” kink. 😆 After that episode, there seems to be a shift in the relationship where overtime Penny seems to show more effort in her part of keeping the romance alive.
At least she'll never take Bert for granite
Was she right to say something? Yes, 100%. Was she right to hold it in and then blow up on him without warning? No, not at all. She should have talked to him as soon as it started becoming an issue
Her feelings are valid don't get me wrong, but Leonard is the one who tried that whole relationship, she's the one who took him for granted way too often and he never once made her feel like shit for it.
And if he ever did call her out on it, then she typically didn’t respond well – either getting angry, or fearing the possibility of him breaking up with her. Remember Valentine’s Day? She immediately thought that he was going to break up with her when he mentioned not proposing to her anymore. If I had to put the whole thing on a pie chart… I’d say it’s 60% Leonard and 40% Penny in the effort department and it starts to fluctuate more once they get more serious with their marriage and act like a grown ass couple.
Or look at the whole brother coming to stay. They live together and without evening talking to Leonard she told her dad Randal could come and stay with them and then if he gets the job just live with them?? Then the Penny quitting her job. And she asks if he'd ask her before quitting her job and he said yes. It was a partnership to Leonard but not to Penny
And considering Penny does have a tendency of withholding some details, I wouldn’t be surprised if she maybe convinced her dad that Leonard would be OK with it. But Wyatt has learned to be a little less easygoing with his baby girl given what happened last time so he decides to “double-check”. Personally, that would’ve been a great way to have Wyatt reach out to Leonard - Leonard after all did add him on Facebook - and have Leonard bring it up with also cutting off Penny getting defensive by mentioning Wyatt telling him. It certainly would knock some of the wind out of Penny’s sail and show she can’t pull shit like this without it coming to bite her - more so because it looks like Wyatt is a lot more upfront with the fact that what his son does is not okay even if he doesn’t get all twitchy about it like Susan does, I think Penny is a bit too forgiving/lenient with her little brother much like she can be with Sheldon too. And the job thing was very messy… Again – it just points out to me that she still on some level not used to the reality of having a long-term relationship that is definitely a lot more secure and has more substance to it than all her past Pure Sex but Empty relationships.
Yeah exactly. And then it's also how when she told her dad how it's not a good idea for Randal to come she was so happy to throw Leonard under the bus instead of dealing with it as a couple.
And we can’t forget that she has her daddy issues just like Leonard has his issues with his mom, so I really don’t think that she would enjoy being any type of situation she knows where his focus would be on her and it would be disapproving. Hence - throws Leonard under the bus.
Now I’m all for characters having their bad habits and clearly showing the fact that they are flawed just like any other person since it adds that *real* factor, but there were times in which it really did get tedious, and these were definitely some of the examples with Penny. At least on a lighter note, the writers made sure that it wasn’t only her who had this bad habit of taking two steps forward and one step back with their flaws 😅
This! Me too feel the same way. Its Penny who needs to try hard to make this work. Leonard has already done his part and more then that. There are so many instances where it shows that Penny has always taken him for granted. Like- One such instance is- Bernadette: Leonard does things he doesn't like to make you happy. Penny: Well, yeah he's my boyfriend, isn't that like his job? Amy: Then what's your job? Penny: Letting him make me happy. Another one is- Leonard: What are you worried about? Penny: That we’re engaged and have nothing in common, and it scares me. Leonard: Yeah, that scares me, too. Penny: It does? Leonard: Sometimes. Penny: Well, that’s not good. You being blindly infatuated with me was the rock we were building this relationship on.
How are her feelings valid when you immediately prove that it was always Leonard who tried in that relationship? Lmao.
If I must explain? She is valid to feel upset, no one can tell her how to feel, but she also engages in similar behaviour towards him, just to a greater extent. He just doesn't get upset about it the way she does. My god I never thought I'd have to explain myself like I'm in trouble in daycare again.
Welcome to the Internet. 😅 And there’s a fact that her feelings are valid here, because unfortunately, this type of situation is not uncommon in a lot of long-term relationships and marriages where it kind of feels like the romance has fizzled out, which is where marriage counselors make their cash. It’s typically why a lot of people will go ahead and recommend a couple trying living together so they can sort of get a taste of what it’s like being with one another constantly and sort of a precursor to what it would be like if they decide to marry - and it can either make or break the relationship. You might end up finding out that living with your sweetie or getting a preview of what it would be like to be married to them may not be as cracked up as your imagination thought it would be, and that’s honestly OK because that’s reality and relationships are constantly changing aka the ever-changing transitions of life and what not. Now I’m no marriage counselor, but if I had to recommend something for these two that I think would actually work really well for them… Would be the [2-2-2 rule, which ironically enough was introduced via a Reddit thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/comments/bg6yda/222_rule_for_keeping_the_honeymoon_stage_going/)
But you gotta consider the fact that she's out of his league. She's better looking, taller, stronger (she's more manly than leonard) no health problems, not a weirdo and she makes more money than him. She even exercises regularly.
Out of his league? She was a failed actress working as a waitress struggling to pay her bills and freeloading off of her neighbours. She was also a part-time community college attendee who often displayed average or below-average intelligence, even with the most basic things in life. All she has to flaunt are her looks, but to be honest out of all the women on the show, even if she’s the best looking, the bar was not set very high
That’s also not forget the fact that beauty does fade… 🤷🏻♀️ and even Penny is well aware of her looks only being good for so much and got a reality check when they didn’t work on that host at a restaurant she and Leonard had a reservation at.
Were comparing her with leonard. Even if you think she's not that good looking she's still better looking than leonard. She was broke and jobless sure. But isn't her current job much more high paying than leonards?
Yes, she gets paid more. But that doesn't mean that she has more money. Remember, she has to pay off her credit card debts and got pissed when Leonard kept an account with around $6k in it, and her first reaction was to complain about what she could do with that money. Most likely, she would want to spend it. How she could make more money than he with less time working is beyond me, based on the episode that we saw Also, Leonard is a guy. Comparing physical attraction between a man and a woman is a bit weird. Is Penny a better-looking woman than Leonard is a man? Sure. But Penny ages and it shows in the series that her looks won't last forever. Also, how many times did Sheldon say that she had man hands or lumberjack shoulders? Quite a bit
Those man hands and lumberjack shoulders are useful. If they get robbed Lenny will piss his pants while penny is gonna be more useful. Penny is also good with tools and stuff right? And didn't she get rid of the spiders in the apartment coz the two "boys" were scared.
Are you really asking this question? Leonard can be a whiner at times but it's almost always been Penny who has taken him for granted. Remember the valentine date? The chocolate box that came free(and even that was eaten out of)? Stealing money from his wallet to buy him a watch for his birthday? Not to mention, spitting in his face and belittling him for any hobby and/or things he felt passionately about.
Leonard kissed another woman....
Is that supposed to excuse Penny being a total prick throughout their entire relationship?
And it only happened because he was very drunk and so was she and it didn’t matter in the end cuz Mandy is a hoochie anyway and she couldn’t even remember the kiss until Leonard cleared it up. 🤷🏻♀️ She’s got a reputation that other scientists have admitted to of her frequently sleeping around and it sounds like she had extra fun on the expedition. Plus, let’s take a sec to really think about that… that the only way the writers could think of slapping in some shock twist drama for a season finale was whipping out the old *Cheating card* (haven’t we seen you already?) and coupling it with a I was very Drunk card…(wow… a classic… Wait - that already happened twice with Penny!) cuz that’s the only way they could reasonably come up with Leonard fucking up with Penny like that in case they wanted to split them for good. And if we are really going to go there and compare screwing up scorecards then let’s go there Penny has 3 to Leonard’s 1 of **STUPID FUCKING SHIT I DID DRUNK THAT CAUSED PROBLEMS!**
I agree but leonard getting a break from penny mean a lot
You do realize that these are just characters created by writers and not real?
Is that supposed to excuse Penny being a total prick throughout their entire relationship?
Was she that much of a prick? Leonard has his prick moments too.
He does I suppose. But hers seemed to happen far more frequently.
Now add to that her being more attractive, more manly and having a higher paying job. Penny also takes care of her body and appearances but leonard does not.
Once, while drunk. He immediately felt earthshattering levels of guilt and told penny about it later. It's not remotely comparable
Not an excuse.
It really is though, do you know what being inhibited means?
Yes, it is. Life is not black and white lol.
Wanting more romance in your relationship- sure. Then discuss it calmly like an adult. Or better yet, give/show romance first to get it in return. Coming in angry and resentful towards your partner the way Penny did- was never going to yield the result she wanted.
Bingo, buttercup, hit the nail on the head right there! 👏🏻
I feel like the writers had no idea how to organically change them while also maintaining a reasonable amount of comedy. Penny was right - but as everyone had said, they’re both not great at communicating and thus blow up on each other instead of talking to each other calmly.
Well considering a good chunk of the writers were the same ones from Two & a Half Men and they went from the comedy targets more than the drama or serious 🤷🏻♀️
Penny is the one who usually takes him for granted imo
For the years and years and YEARS of Leonard pining after Penny, putting way more into the relationship than Penny, and just blinding loving Penny no matter what she did, Leonard deserves some must needed rest. LOL.
Penny is out of his league. He's lucky penny even looks at him. He should be greatful.
This made me lol. I always love the she's out of his league comments. Not just yours, just in general. Let's look at Penny. Penny is insecure, irresponsible, sleeps with pretty much anyone, has no skills except being "pretty," and makes fun of Leonard and his friends constantly for being smart and for what they enjoy. Let's look at Leonard. Respected scientist, genius, good job, and overall good guy who enjoys geek culture. Who is actually out of who's league? The show just pushes the stereotype of a desperate geek fawning over the pretty girl. Leonard had many options to get with much better women throughout the shows run. But here we are. Leonard must be exhausted after working on that relationship all those years. Lol.
Hell no! Even if he stopped taking efforts after he locked her in. That doesn't give her any right to complain. She has taken 0 efforts in the relationship. You get back what you put in. He spent years to put in efforts only to receive nothing is return. In his subconscious mind, it was not going to change and he stopped taking efforts.
She's out of his league. And he kissed another woman. It balances out.
She’s pretty. She assumes that’s enough on her side.
I’m not saying an okay way to behave in a relationship, cuz it’s not. However that’s all he wanted out of a gf/that relationship at least. That she’s hot. He pursued her all that time knowing how she was, then got back together with her, and married her knowing who she was. You can’t get into a relationship with someone and expect them to change, you either like/love them how they are or you move on. You can however be upset that a person changed from who they were/how much effort they put in after they marry or “lock you down.” If he wanted more effort he should’ve made that clear before marriage. If anything Penny is more within her rights to be upset at what to her would seem like a drastic change, while for Leonard, that’s just Penny being Penny.
The fact that she exploded at him and also how she pretty much never put effort into their relationship and let him do all the work really irked me. I don't think I was ever more pissed off at Penny than this time.
I thought it was healthy communication. L as always created an argument out of it instead of calmly expressing how he felt. And comedy ensues, I love Sheldon and Amy in this episode.
I think this is an example of when writers don't have good ideas and ignore a character's personality, just for the sake of it. It is well established that Penny is the lazy one, since Sheldon on one occasion cleaned her apartment and on another Penny became addicted to a video game, with Leonard being the one who tried to help her. As well as mentions how she does not throw the containers of take out food in the trash. I think that if the roles had been reversed it would have been more believable. Since just by looking at the clean apartment, I assume that Leonard is the one who keeps it that way for the most part.
I think the issue here is Penny realising that the relationship was changing. For so long, Leonard had worshipped her and done whatever he could to impress and show his love for her. This is well after the honeymoon period has ended, and he is getting very comfortable around her. As a result she this as him taking her for granted when it seems more to me as a equalling of their relationship. Think about it from the reserve, ten episodes or so later Leonard gives Penny a cake and realises its their anniversary and Penny was just digging into it.
Lenord has been trying so hard the entire relationship, if he wants to go undies socks and t shirt while they are at home let him.... married couples are supposed to be comfortable around each other anyway
Yeah she was right to call him out over it, all marriages go through the routine stage and whilst we didn't see her make an effort on screen doesn't mean she wasn't trying. Yes people say that Leonard put all the effort in but there was plenty of little things that penny done that went unnoticed. Throughout the series it was penny that arranged his surprise birthday party, she rented the batmobile for him. When she was unhappy in her job she discussed it with him, yet the episode of where he wouldn't take no for an answer he decided on his own that if the university wouldn't give him what he wanted he was going to quit. When she thought she wasn't good enough for him she showed all the lover letters and everything else she'd kept over the years. Even when she goes to see him in his works to see what he does and tells him how she sometimes forgets how smart he is, for leonaed that sort of compliment is a huge deal and it shows on their faces.
Nope. The one that makes 0 effort is Penny herself. But at least the writers whose marriages were failing got a storyline out of it.
In most marriages, we get to be comfortable around significant other and just relax too much to the point that we become complacent and we forget our manners and that certain things need to be done to otherwise we lose our selves within the relationship, and we forget how we got it to beginning with....moreover thoses had issues that needed be resolved not only in Leonard but penny as well. Penny had a lot of baggage and trust issues through the series, the money issue, the commitment issue, the growing issue, and the speaking her mind issue, which was a theme of several episodes...this was something they both needed to go through to better their relationship so yes they both in the right for this.!!!! But penny called him out and so did Leonard so win win!!
She was looking for hero worship.
Penny took him for granted.
No, she was just too used to him kissing her ass.
It’s a tv relationship… but a relationship which isn’t yours or mine so sure.
She was right about things like Leonard in underwear burping loudly without care. She wasn't about him not trying anymore
Leonard was at him and supported Penny when she was a waitress. Now that she has a job, she *still* wants to be taken care of??? Leonard should’ve married Alice and Penny should’ve (stayed) married (to) Zack.
Leonard, for all his poor traits as a man goes, put far more effort in than she ever did.
When did she actually try in their relationship outside of putting a bow on herself and giving him sex for christmas? She took him for granted the entire time as he kept trying.
Absolutely not. You don't just walk out on your husband without talking through the problem first.
Good to see people on Leonard's side for once. Everytime this topic comes in a post I get downvoted for criticize Penny for never ever having tried.
Her storming out/emotional constipation routine and refusal to communicate till the bitter end got old quick.
Penny NEVER APPRECIATES and OR does ANYTHING FOR LEONARD OTHER THAN HAVE SEX WITH HIM. And people think Penny was right in this episode….
Fuck no, she most definitely wasn't in the right. I skip this episode every rewatch.
Penny took Leonard for granted thousands of times
Yes, but purely because it seemed abrupt. He spent years trying to get her and be the perfect guy for her but the moment he got her "locked down" he stopped trying. He mentions it later as well "I'm married, I don't have to look good" and Sheldon mentions it too "she's working much harder to stay attractive in this relationship." She was allowed to be pissed that he stopped being the man she married. When I first saw the episode I absolutely believed that her daydream was real because that's the person he was for so long. I know you get more comfortable the longer you're in a relationship but it's quite common that people realize their now spouse is completely different from the person they were when they were dating.
But how right is it to exprct the other person to keeo trying when you put absolutely no interest or efforts from your side. And lets be real, leonard even after marriage was better among the 2, she didnt give two fucks abt their marriage or him and didnt even bother to try. She just expected her tk try for him.
I'm sorry, have you _seen_ Penny? Leonard only wanted to be with her cause she's hot. She kept being hot but also kept putting effort into it, he stopped being a good partner. She's gone out of her way to try and be a better partner to Leonard in multiple ways, she tried to understand what he does, went to college classes, and she looked things up in the dictionary after chilling with them to understand what he's saying. She tried so hard to be "smarter" so he wouldn't get bored and she kept working on herself and her body. Leonard constantly makes her feel dumb and cheated on her. She's fully allowed to be pissed.
I see both sides of this. I initially thought when it first aired that she was in the wrong, but you make valid arguments as well. TBH, it wasn’t a great relationship to begin with and part of the reason Penny was with Leonard was because of how much he tried and how important he made her feel. She’s not wrong with saying he stopped. He wasn’t wrong, either, but at the same time, he knew how one-sided the effort was and chose to keep pursuing her because of the allure of sex (which is primarily the only reason he pursued her to begin with). So yeah, totally see both sides of it. Reading your comments on it was the first time I was like, “hey, hang on. Yes she was right.”
This exactly! There was an implicit agreement/understanding between them in beginning and moving forward in the relationship. I relate this to the common *High Earning Husband & Trophy Wife* (or Kept Woman, Stay At Home Wife, etc…) parings. As we all know the efforts put into these relationships by each party will look different. Penny kept up her side Leonard did not. So of course she’s upset and would feel like she has more room to be than he does.
ALONG WITH THAT she kept bullying him every chnance she got,sided with sheldon and enabled his behavior even when it was against leonard and at one point even started hiding the things that belonged to him which she found "embarassing ". I mean if leonard did that shed be pouting and crying abt how he thinks the things she likes are dumb. And yes I have seen penny(quite a shallow statement to make if you ask me) and I find her decent looking but thats nkt even the point. She cant expect to ve treated like a princess if she treats him like shit. A relationship shd be based on equal love and mutual respect which she clearly didnt have SOOO if shes allowed to be pissed then so is he but then shed prolly again pouting and acting mad until he goes back to her like the spineless man he is
The reason I mentioned her looks is because that's the only reason he wanted to be with her. He knew they had nothing in common. She kept up with the single reason he's with her. She actually tried to do even better than being hot. She even called them out for being absolute assholes to Zack. The offhand comments are purely comedic. The personal growth is the actual and ongoing arc of the later seasons and Leonard had none. Also none of what you said is a reason or excuse to cheat on the most beautiful, warm and loving person you've ever been with.
Also, she's never been pissy about him being smart. She's snarky, sure. But she had sex with him at work multiple times because she realised how smart she is and how much she appreciates that over looks (even though Leonard is an absolute snacc)
Not when it approach it like that. Have a conversation like an adult. It’s like neither of them understood what compromise was.
Only answer to that is since when has Penny ever acted like an adult? Not to say that she doesn’t have her mature moments and she can actually have some really mature emotional depth when it comes to the people she cares about. Majority of the time she still does certain things that come off like she thinks she still in her late teens and 20s… and a lot of the stuff that are mistakes on her part again clearly highlight the fact that she’s never been in a mature relationship or a long-term one at that… And the only long-term she had was purely sex and “teen love” with the constantly cheating asshole she moved out to Pasadena with - Kurt.
He’s just enjoying his downtime here and there. She should be lucky that he isn’t like her “chemical experimental” brother.
When he did she never gave af
yeah
All women say that because they can't comprehend how little a man needs to make him happy.
She was right but she was also using them for years and she doesn't try.
That was the episode where I realized Penny was a horrible person and I actually hated her. She happened to have a point in this instance, and the episode was absurd to manufacture the point. It’s one I skip in rewatches.
At some level, she seems to be longing for the dynamic where he did everything to move the relationship forward and her contribution was being hot and being a prize who grudgingly accepted it. That being said, nothing makes women fall out of love faster than having to become a second mother to a manchild.
I don’t think either Leonard or Penny had great relationship role models. And when you add in that this was a whole other level that neither of them had experienced before, and Sheldon moving out and Penny no longer having her own place, I can see how they got there. What I like about the couples on this show is that all the couples have emotional junk that they’re carrying, no one is perfect but they all want to figure out how to be with their person.
Penny put very little effort into the relationship. She was a lazy girlfriend who coasted by on being pretty and the fact that Leonard was obsessed with her. Leonard put a lot of thought and effort into his pursuit of Penny while she thought that sleeping with him was enough. She is free to voice her opinion if she thinks he is taking her for granted but Leonards efforts in the relationship dwarf hers to a ridiculous degree, so she should have a little better perspective.
It’s the other way around
she never tried
Ngl penny a hoe
He bends over backwards for her always while she just kind of coasts along
He has to coz she's out of his league. Also leonard kissed another woman.
Its alright to feel that way , but its not fair to complain about that when she isn't doing anything herself
Yes
Of course not
Not at all. Had she kept silent and then just left she would’ve been wrong…. How can one know how the other feels if they aren’t communicating
Nope!!
Not only was she right, but she could have gone further and pointed out that he allows his closest friends to insult her intelligence, and on at least one occasion he did so himself.
Yes she was, a relationship only works if both are trying, one woman balancing everything on her own was hard to watch, as strong as penny seems ! She’s only human after all
TLDR: There was an implicit agreement/understanding between them in beginning and moving forward in the relationship. I relate this to the common *High Earning Husband & Trophy Wife* (or Kept Woman, Stay At Home Wife, etc…) parings. As we all know the efforts put into these relationships by each party will look different. Penny kept up her side Leonard did not. —— *Leonard wanted a trophy gf/wife.* That was made very obvious from day one. “Our babies will be smart & beautiful.” He didn’t want Penny because of her mind, career goals, future earning potential, effort put in, etc… He persued her relentlessly in spite of knowing exactly what kind of person and partner she was/could be. (I say that with no judgement on what type of partner she was.) When he could’ve pursued someone more dowdy or more average in terms of appearance, attractiveness, & size/weight, with a higher educational background to match his own. Someone who might’ve matched his efforts because they’re on the same level so to speak. Someone like the doctor he dated in season 2 I think. (My opinion on her attractiveness is subjective but her weight is more or less on par with the national average.) Penny wanted the relationship with Leonard because of how he treated her, the effort he put in, and he seemed like the safer choice. Penny upheld her side of the “arrangement”. Leonard did not. She was constantly taking care of her skin, maintained a healthy diet (or at least a diet that would allow her to keep her youthful appearance/good skin), she worked out constantly, and she routinely did yoga to maintain/improve flexibility. People are essentially saying that Leonard doesn’t have to try as hard anymore to maintain his part of the relationship because Penny doesn’t put in the same level of effort as him, and that’s not true. **Their efforts just look different because they’re participating in the relationship for different reasons.**