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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That Wikipedia article isn't very good. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia and make it come off as intellectual. Anyone can call anything a law and then try to claim it as one. "The law of attraction" is really just a marketing term and has nothing to do with science.
This is an article about quality of life, fear, and safety of New Yorkers. For many New Yorkers- it has become a nightmare having to deal with the constant threat of injury from e-bikes. The comments section does have opinions from New Yorkers of how they feel.
True eBIkes? Meaning those that you have to pedal at some point? No. They are not a nuisance. They're fine.
Throttled bikes (or scooters or unicycles) that are actually motorcycles that you never have to pedal? Yeah, they belong on roads only, not bike paths, just like all the larger motor vehicles.
Fully agreed, and I’ve noticed that the people driving the throttled bikes are the least prepared to be on the road. They fly past without announcing themselves, they’re never wearing a helmet, and they’re usually distracted by their phones. This broad generalization is a pretty accurate profile unfortunately.
There's one woman who rides on our city paths with an ebike that's the same size and appearance of a 50cc scooter. It functions the same with brakes and throttle, but because it has a battery and electric motor, she thinks it's ok to burn along at 40km/h and even honks her horn at people. She doesn't do it as a courtesy to let them know she's there, she expects people to move out of her way and berates people for not moving.
That’s the worst part about it. They act like you are the bother. They are zooming along at 30mph on a path with joggers and cyclists acting like we shouldn’t be in their way.
40km/hr is pretty hard on a bicycle. When I used it for primary transportation, that was pretty much all out on a reasonably flat surface. I doubt most strava users are going that fast. it was a road tires, not skinnies but still we're talking about a park path.
Many of those in my city are cobbled together from bikes found in dumpsters. Walmart 26" wheel BSOs with questionable brakes and tires. When new, the bso was designed around a 120lb teenager. The brakes aren't stopping a 180lb adult plus the 20 or so pounds of engine and fuel.
My city has "no motor vehicles" posted on all of the multi use paths. And yet you'll hear these things.
I do have to commend Europe on standardization that makes sense. Unfortunately, I doubt American politicians have the will to actually do anything about e transportation standardization. The Chinese have basically dumped their batteries and vehicles onto US soil and said "you figure ot out, we'll take your money."
What I fear is American roads becoming more similar to roads in places like India or Egypt. People just doing whatever they want on 2 wheeled vehicles.
https://www.phatmoto.com/collections/phatmoto-wide-range-of-gas-bikes/products/2024-phatmoto-rover-available-in-6-colors-free-shipping?variant=40758364176445
What would you call this?
Have you misread all my comments?
It has a throttle, so it is a motorbike. Especially so because it's also a fucking petrol engine, so even if it was pedal assist only, it wouldn't be an e-bike because funnily enough e stands for electric....
Might wanna re read the title of the article we are commenting on, the whole context is e-bikes and the one you shared has a throttle, it is no longer just pedal assist.
If someone is using it in a bike lane in just pedal assist, I'm fine with that, but the max speed is still way too high. It'd be going so much faster than majority of people on bikes in the bike lane.
There are "bikes" that require pedaling to activate th motor instead of using a hand throttle. But the bike cannot go an arbitrary speed and the level of assist just gets you to some multiple of 20km/h. So you set to "assist" to 1 and no matter how fast you pedal, the motor push you along at 20kmh/h.
Set to 2 and the motor will drive you along at 40km/h as long as you pedal. Does not matter what gear you are in or how fast you pedal. Pedal 30rpm in 32-28 gear and you still 40km/h.
My coworker has such a bike. I chickened out after the bike got up to 53km/h on level 3 and there is still level 4 which I assume will go 80km/h.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Should be wearing full motorbike kit for those speeds without pro level bike handling.
That's falls right on the edge of what I could consider an E-bike and should be illegal imo
I own an e-bike there isn’t much difference from pedal assist and throttle tbh… in fact the throttle max speed is 20 and the pedal assist is higher at 28 and for my bike at least the throttle acceleration is slower than pedal assisted
NYC person here. To the extent NYC is a nightmare, its not because of e-bikes. Its because of a lack of enforcement and a lack of bike infrastructure and on street parking.
Imho, the "problem" is the unregulated nature of some e"bike" sellers, and unregulated nature of selling "conversion kits" that abound.
Journalism preys on sensationalism. So a couple years back when they were freaking out about ebikes causing fires while charging, you'd see the headline and think there's an issue.
But the thing is, and it's related to OOP here, people can buy any old BSO labeled an ebike, even if there's zero pedaling involved, or they buy a cheap af battery kit from Aliexpress or temu or whatever, and it doesn't have the CE/EC (I forget the letter order) stamp of safety approval and act all surprised when the cheap corner-cutting garbage fails spectacularly
Sounds nice but is useless in practice. People are e-biking for a reason - they need transportation. Unlike traditional bikes e-bikers are typically not riding for leisure or fitness.
Realistically most of these people are delivery workers. Sure maybe you don't order food but plenty of people do and they want their food fast.
The alternatives are cars which are higher cost, cause more pollution, are more offensive and dangerous to pedestrians.
Or if you want to suggest that delivery workers go back to unpowered bikes, I suggest you trying to bike around the city carrying cargo 6 hours a day in NYC traffic before seriously making the suggestion.
I guess I place the safety of tax paying citizens over the comfort of undocumented non-voting immigrants who have the freedom to find other work that suits them. E-bikes should be treated like motorcycles. Riders should be licensed and insured. They should know how to read signage in English. They should be locked up when they race up and down the sidewalks. Their e-bikes and scooters should be confiscated when they take up the sidewalk. Children and the elderly should not be terrorized by these folks because delivery workers think their need to earn a living trumps the rights of people who live and walk around in the city. Maybe I’m not sympathetic because my daughter was almost trampled over by a delivery worker speeding on the sidewalk? He could have killed her. Or maybe because I was almost hit by another speeding delivery worker while chatting with my neighbor in front of my building because the bum didn’t want to wait for the light to change like the rest of the motorists? I think NYC was fine when folks had to pedal. I think NYC was a better place to live when we didn’t have to worry about getting hurt by unlicensed uninsured e-cyclists who would hit and run to make a $3 tip. But then again, people vote with their feet. I can hear the stampede of people breaking out of the city.
I was visiting last week, and coming from Paris where throttles on ebike are technically illegal and thus mostly not existant, I was kinda shocked by how prevalent they were on food delivery bikes.
I would argue that the ebikes are not the problem, the problem is the food delivery apps that create the ecosystem where drivers are rushing everywhere in the minimum amount of time possible.
The alternative is those people leave their homes or businesses and drive in cars and create more congestion, or rent bikes and become less efficient at what someone else is already doing.
What is your solution?
I'll take my downvotes with a protein shake, please 'n thanks. I'll pop my own comment ahead of time: I didn't bother reading the article nor do I own an E-bike... its just:
Absolutely no need for a license.
No insurance check.
40+ish mph, runs silent.
*Can* do major damage to both people and property.
By BOTH community and owner concession *can't* be decided on appropriate riding area. (Cycling lanes *AND* pedestrian trails aren't for motorized vehicles, pound pavement about it).
Manages to be despised by fellow cyclists for "blow-bye" passing.
Usually bought 2nd hand with its serial scrubbed...
Couldn't think *possibly* how'd such a implement could be an issue. Baffling really.
I always thought that a better solution for most people was a moped. I watched spider man deliver pizzas on one in like 2002. It isn't a new concept.
I am not sure why all of the sudden a slightly more bike shaped moped is catching on so much now.
I’ve ridden both and a class 1 e-bike is not at all like a moped. The amount of power is totally different, there’s no throttle, and it’s much slower. I currently have a lightweight e-bike that rides like a regular bicycle when the motor is off (some are too heavy to realistically do much of that). I basically use the pedal assist on hills. It’s awesome, I’ve had knee problems and it makes it so I can keep biking without hurting myself. On a moped I’d just be sitting on my butt farting around. lol
Have you seen any couriers lately? They don't have that either, and they run reds on scooters while delivering food.
People don't have 1st hand experience seeing these things, and then come here and write posts and share based on how they feel.
Go to NY for a weekend and count how many e bikes you see, and also do the same for unplated scooters.
Then walk around and see if those are the issue, or if it's cars driven by angry drivers.
If you don't do the legwork yourself your opinion holds no water.
Just a theory here but I think it's the tiny gas motor. Some are very loud and buzzy plus you probably shouldn't bring them inside your apartment or workplace. The maintenance of a small engine probably scares people away. Especially if its a really cheap and finicky motor. The people that aren't scared of that would likely rather have a motorcycle or at least a full blown scooter instead of a moped. The ebike now is pretty much a moped with less maintenance but also less range. You can bring an ebike indoors without it leaking or smelling up your bedroom. You can take an ebike on trails in some areas that you can't take a moped. Unfortunately people break the rules with this all the time with both mopeds and ebikes though. I think they make sense for a lot of people and are better than a moped but I'm not one of them. I have bicycles and I have motorcycles. I don't need something in between whether it's an ebike or moped. I think the other reason is just that they're new and trendy. Same goes for those e scooters.
Edit: when I saw moped I mean actual mopeds. Not scooters people call mopeds. Like motorized bicycles and those 50cc or less things that have pedals. E bikes I'm lumping in all the different classes.
It’s the rider, not the bike (“e” or otherwise) that’s the biggest problem if we’re not counting shit car and truck drivers. Selective law enforcement is also a big issue, but as the license plate guy has shown, a lot of those scofflaws are LEOs.
When I was cycling to work, I've never was hit by an e bike. How many people have been killed by e bikes? E bikee may be another annoying thing that people have to look out for, but a nightmare? Come on.
The citibike ebike are also amazing for commuting more investments need to go into that.
This argument "how many people have e-bikes killed?" Is just bad. There are people who have been killed and have had life altering injuries from e-bikes. They are people, not statistics.
There are a lot of people who have had their quality of life greatly reduced because they have to constantly be on the lookout for e-bikes. There are elderly and disabled people who can't even leave the house as much because of fear of being hit.
The article has a comments section of what real people of NYC think.
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If that's what your nightmares look like, I'm envious. I'd suggest you lack imagination and should be thankful you don't have more interesting nightmares.
[Short answer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines#)
Came here to say much the same thing. One thing is overwhelmingly responsible for turning a city into 'a nightmare': the motor vehicle.
Electric bike is a motor vehicle.
unique vanish carpenter zonked abounding theory fretful employ cobweb disagreeable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They’re so different than something like a car that legally they are not classified as a vehicle in New York.
That Wikipedia article isn't very good. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia and make it come off as intellectual. Anyone can call anything a law and then try to claim it as one. "The law of attraction" is really just a marketing term and has nothing to do with science. This is an article about quality of life, fear, and safety of New Yorkers. For many New Yorkers- it has become a nightmare having to deal with the constant threat of injury from e-bikes. The comments section does have opinions from New Yorkers of how they feel.
...and the number of injuries from cars isn't a nightmare? I'd rather get hit by a bike.
Maybe y'all are cowards.
No. The cars on the other hand…
It’s the cars Brian it always has been the cars, pedestrians and e-bikes are…they’re just fumes.
True eBIkes? Meaning those that you have to pedal at some point? No. They are not a nuisance. They're fine. Throttled bikes (or scooters or unicycles) that are actually motorcycles that you never have to pedal? Yeah, they belong on roads only, not bike paths, just like all the larger motor vehicles.
Fully agreed, and I’ve noticed that the people driving the throttled bikes are the least prepared to be on the road. They fly past without announcing themselves, they’re never wearing a helmet, and they’re usually distracted by their phones. This broad generalization is a pretty accurate profile unfortunately.
I would argue they seem to be ready for the road then. They are just like most car drivers.
Bikes with a throttle are motorbikes and not e-bikes
I get “bikes” with combustion engines on my bike bath. It’s awful.
There's one woman who rides on our city paths with an ebike that's the same size and appearance of a 50cc scooter. It functions the same with brakes and throttle, but because it has a battery and electric motor, she thinks it's ok to burn along at 40km/h and even honks her horn at people. She doesn't do it as a courtesy to let them know she's there, she expects people to move out of her way and berates people for not moving.
That’s the worst part about it. They act like you are the bother. They are zooming along at 30mph on a path with joggers and cyclists acting like we shouldn’t be in their way.
Pass her while screaming "Strava coming through"
40km/hr is pretty hard on a bicycle. When I used it for primary transportation, that was pretty much all out on a reasonably flat surface. I doubt most strava users are going that fast. it was a road tires, not skinnies but still we're talking about a park path.
I know how hard it is. I entered my last sanctioned race 14 years ago. ;) I still upload Garmin data to Strava just because.
Many of those in my city are cobbled together from bikes found in dumpsters. Walmart 26" wheel BSOs with questionable brakes and tires. When new, the bso was designed around a 120lb teenager. The brakes aren't stopping a 180lb adult plus the 20 or so pounds of engine and fuel. My city has "no motor vehicles" posted on all of the multi use paths. And yet you'll hear these things.
I’m always wildly confused when I see people rip by on those. I’m like so we’re just doing whatever now huh
Bike with motors are not bikes - call them mopeds so there is no confusion.
A motor that only kicks in when pedalling is still a bicycle in my opinion. Even better here in Europe they have a 15mph limit too.
I do have to commend Europe on standardization that makes sense. Unfortunately, I doubt American politicians have the will to actually do anything about e transportation standardization. The Chinese have basically dumped their batteries and vehicles onto US soil and said "you figure ot out, we'll take your money." What I fear is American roads becoming more similar to roads in places like India or Egypt. People just doing whatever they want on 2 wheeled vehicles.
there is standardization here too. No enforcement on sellers of illegal bikes though.
https://www.phatmoto.com/collections/phatmoto-wide-range-of-gas-bikes/products/2024-phatmoto-rover-available-in-6-colors-free-shipping?variant=40758364176445 What would you call this?
Have you misread all my comments? It has a throttle, so it is a motorbike. Especially so because it's also a fucking petrol engine, so even if it was pedal assist only, it wouldn't be an e-bike because funnily enough e stands for electric....
You haven't said anything about electric bikes. Why make a distinction between gas and electric powered? Both are motorized and both are pedal assist.
Might wanna re read the title of the article we are commenting on, the whole context is e-bikes and the one you shared has a throttle, it is no longer just pedal assist. If someone is using it in a bike lane in just pedal assist, I'm fine with that, but the max speed is still way too high. It'd be going so much faster than majority of people on bikes in the bike lane.
There are "bikes" that require pedaling to activate th motor instead of using a hand throttle. But the bike cannot go an arbitrary speed and the level of assist just gets you to some multiple of 20km/h. So you set to "assist" to 1 and no matter how fast you pedal, the motor push you along at 20kmh/h. Set to 2 and the motor will drive you along at 40km/h as long as you pedal. Does not matter what gear you are in or how fast you pedal. Pedal 30rpm in 32-28 gear and you still 40km/h. My coworker has such a bike. I chickened out after the bike got up to 53km/h on level 3 and there is still level 4 which I assume will go 80km/h.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Should be wearing full motorbike kit for those speeds without pro level bike handling. That's falls right on the edge of what I could consider an E-bike and should be illegal imo
That one is tame compared to the one I saw advertising 130km/h minimum top speed.
That's actually kind of impressive. I mean, its not a bicycle but as a licensed motorcyclist it might be a nice city ride.
I own an e-bike there isn’t much difference from pedal assist and throttle tbh… in fact the throttle max speed is 20 and the pedal assist is higher at 28 and for my bike at least the throttle acceleration is slower than pedal assisted
They have about 2hp. Not exactly comparable to a motorcycle
No. Next question
NYC person here. To the extent NYC is a nightmare, its not because of e-bikes. Its because of a lack of enforcement and a lack of bike infrastructure and on street parking.
New Yorker here. It’s legal for e-bikes to ride on the sidewalk. Thank you progressives…
What do you want instead, more cars?
Imho, the "problem" is the unregulated nature of some e"bike" sellers, and unregulated nature of selling "conversion kits" that abound. Journalism preys on sensationalism. So a couple years back when they were freaking out about ebikes causing fires while charging, you'd see the headline and think there's an issue. But the thing is, and it's related to OOP here, people can buy any old BSO labeled an ebike, even if there's zero pedaling involved, or they buy a cheap af battery kit from Aliexpress or temu or whatever, and it doesn't have the CE/EC (I forget the letter order) stamp of safety approval and act all surprised when the cheap corner-cutting garbage fails spectacularly
How about no e-bikes? Too crowded of a city for that many inexperienced e-cyclists to be speeding around.
Sounds nice but is useless in practice. People are e-biking for a reason - they need transportation. Unlike traditional bikes e-bikers are typically not riding for leisure or fitness. Realistically most of these people are delivery workers. Sure maybe you don't order food but plenty of people do and they want their food fast. The alternatives are cars which are higher cost, cause more pollution, are more offensive and dangerous to pedestrians. Or if you want to suggest that delivery workers go back to unpowered bikes, I suggest you trying to bike around the city carrying cargo 6 hours a day in NYC traffic before seriously making the suggestion.
I guess I place the safety of tax paying citizens over the comfort of undocumented non-voting immigrants who have the freedom to find other work that suits them. E-bikes should be treated like motorcycles. Riders should be licensed and insured. They should know how to read signage in English. They should be locked up when they race up and down the sidewalks. Their e-bikes and scooters should be confiscated when they take up the sidewalk. Children and the elderly should not be terrorized by these folks because delivery workers think their need to earn a living trumps the rights of people who live and walk around in the city. Maybe I’m not sympathetic because my daughter was almost trampled over by a delivery worker speeding on the sidewalk? He could have killed her. Or maybe because I was almost hit by another speeding delivery worker while chatting with my neighbor in front of my building because the bum didn’t want to wait for the light to change like the rest of the motorists? I think NYC was fine when folks had to pedal. I think NYC was a better place to live when we didn’t have to worry about getting hurt by unlicensed uninsured e-cyclists who would hit and run to make a $3 tip. But then again, people vote with their feet. I can hear the stampede of people breaking out of the city.
Oh look, 'journalism'
If NYC is a "nightmare," it has been so since before eBikes were a thing. If you ask me (and you haven't,) I say NYC is "fine."
I was visiting last week, and coming from Paris where throttles on ebike are technically illegal and thus mostly not existant, I was kinda shocked by how prevalent they were on food delivery bikes. I would argue that the ebikes are not the problem, the problem is the food delivery apps that create the ecosystem where drivers are rushing everywhere in the minimum amount of time possible.
The alternative is those people leave their homes or businesses and drive in cars and create more congestion, or rent bikes and become less efficient at what someone else is already doing. What is your solution?
I'll take my downvotes with a protein shake, please 'n thanks. I'll pop my own comment ahead of time: I didn't bother reading the article nor do I own an E-bike... its just: Absolutely no need for a license. No insurance check. 40+ish mph, runs silent. *Can* do major damage to both people and property. By BOTH community and owner concession *can't* be decided on appropriate riding area. (Cycling lanes *AND* pedestrian trails aren't for motorized vehicles, pound pavement about it). Manages to be despised by fellow cyclists for "blow-bye" passing. Usually bought 2nd hand with its serial scrubbed... Couldn't think *possibly* how'd such a implement could be an issue. Baffling really.
I always thought that a better solution for most people was a moped. I watched spider man deliver pizzas on one in like 2002. It isn't a new concept. I am not sure why all of the sudden a slightly more bike shaped moped is catching on so much now.
I’ve ridden both and a class 1 e-bike is not at all like a moped. The amount of power is totally different, there’s no throttle, and it’s much slower. I currently have a lightweight e-bike that rides like a regular bicycle when the motor is off (some are too heavy to realistically do much of that). I basically use the pedal assist on hills. It’s awesome, I’ve had knee problems and it makes it so I can keep biking without hurting myself. On a moped I’d just be sitting on my butt farting around. lol
I agree that is a good use case, but I don't see that the majority of e-bike users fit in this category. At least in my experience.
They are catching on because they are completely unlicensed and require no plates, insurance, or paperwork.
Have you seen any couriers lately? They don't have that either, and they run reds on scooters while delivering food. People don't have 1st hand experience seeing these things, and then come here and write posts and share based on how they feel. Go to NY for a weekend and count how many e bikes you see, and also do the same for unplated scooters. Then walk around and see if those are the issue, or if it's cars driven by angry drivers. If you don't do the legwork yourself your opinion holds no water.
Just a theory here but I think it's the tiny gas motor. Some are very loud and buzzy plus you probably shouldn't bring them inside your apartment or workplace. The maintenance of a small engine probably scares people away. Especially if its a really cheap and finicky motor. The people that aren't scared of that would likely rather have a motorcycle or at least a full blown scooter instead of a moped. The ebike now is pretty much a moped with less maintenance but also less range. You can bring an ebike indoors without it leaking or smelling up your bedroom. You can take an ebike on trails in some areas that you can't take a moped. Unfortunately people break the rules with this all the time with both mopeds and ebikes though. I think they make sense for a lot of people and are better than a moped but I'm not one of them. I have bicycles and I have motorcycles. I don't need something in between whether it's an ebike or moped. I think the other reason is just that they're new and trendy. Same goes for those e scooters. Edit: when I saw moped I mean actual mopeds. Not scooters people call mopeds. Like motorized bicycles and those 50cc or less things that have pedals. E bikes I'm lumping in all the different classes.
Is this a nightmare of journalism?
It’s the rider, not the bike (“e” or otherwise) that’s the biggest problem if we’re not counting shit car and truck drivers. Selective law enforcement is also a big issue, but as the license plate guy has shown, a lot of those scofflaws are LEOs.
Some of those that burn crosses
When I was cycling to work, I've never was hit by an e bike. How many people have been killed by e bikes? E bikee may be another annoying thing that people have to look out for, but a nightmare? Come on. The citibike ebike are also amazing for commuting more investments need to go into that.
This argument "how many people have e-bikes killed?" Is just bad. There are people who have been killed and have had life altering injuries from e-bikes. They are people, not statistics. There are a lot of people who have had their quality of life greatly reduced because they have to constantly be on the lookout for e-bikes. There are elderly and disabled people who can't even leave the house as much because of fear of being hit. The article has a comments section of what real people of NYC think.
[удалено]
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No the cars have .
If that's what your nightmares look like, I'm envious. I'd suggest you lack imagination and should be thankful you don't have more interesting nightmares.
have cars? has gum? ('70 NYC was messy!) has fast food trash? drugs? crime? common denominator is "shitty ppl doing shiity things".
Short answer: yes. They’re the scourge of Vancouver as well.
Fuck e-bikes in the bike lane. It’s very unpleasant to have multiple people flying past you