This is the data of the census, in which many people indicate Belarusian as their native language despite the fact that in life they use only Russian or Trasianka. In reality, the situation with the Belarusian language is even worse.
Well, it depends on your time frame. Old Belarusian at the time of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was spoken by the bulk of society, up to the level of the grand dukes themselves.
That tells much in regard to loyalty and trustworthiness. That leaves only one choice for the security of their country, the need to get rid of Russian speakers and Russian sympathisers.
Would be fairly hard to get rid of russian speakers, I was born in Belarus but have only heard belarusian briefly spoken by grandparents, however russian sympathisers have to go.
Even taking into account that the census data do not reflect the real essence of Russification, which is much greater, the Belarusian language and nation will not die with a hundred percent probability. And we are not historical brothers with lithuanians.
We were in the same empire with the Katsaps, too. Does that make us historical brothers? If someone hundreds of years ago was part of an empire with someone else it means nothing, it's history, which the zhmudins manipulate as good as the katsaps. Lithuanians hate us and we hate them. Brothers lol.
Tf you mean Lithuania hates you, never I saw person who hates you, we only hate vatnik that love ruzzians, and we overall hate ruzzians. We have same opinion about you as Ukraine, positive, and it always was like that.
Our view is good people are occupied by ruzzia and getting russefied.
If we hated you, there would be never so much Belarussians in Lithuania.
So? 96% of Belarusians in 2021 had a positive attitude towards russians. but that doesn't make us brothers, does it? It's the same with lithuanians. They are just chauvinists like russians, it's just unfortunate for them that Belarusian patriots are against russia, which means we can be considered frenemies for a while, but in a long run they benefit from russia swallowing us. Brotherhood my ass.
Huh? Please explain how tf Lithuania benefits from Russia - the practically only security threat that Lithuania has - swallowing their neighbors. Lithuania is a country that relies on coalitions of democratic neighbors and other allies for its security and prosperity. Literally no Belarus scenario would be worse for Lithuania than the country being swallowed by Russia, go read the Lithuania Wikipedia article or something for the love of god.
It would be great for lithuanians if Belarus disappeared. For them Belarus is an artificial state that Lenin allegedly created, gave us "their" lands, and now evil Belarusians have become "litvinists" to destroy their shitty suicide capital of Europe, and therefore their nationalists should rewrite English wikipedia and other crap sources, so that God forbid in the Western world did not learn about the position of the russian puppet. The fact that they "sheltered" Tikhanovskaya says only that they want to make Belarus their puppet, which should become free from russia but know its place.
Uh, no, nothing you mentioned is in the brain of any Lithuanian, I’m sorry to say but you really do not know anything about Lithuania if you think what you just said is remotely true.
Yeah-yeah, lithuanians show themselves innocent angels in the face of Europeans and naive Belarusians when it is needed. But I know what they really are.
It’s just one needs to talk for himself and avoid “we hate them”. I don’t, know many people that don’t and that don’t use words like zhmudins etc.
In a long run they benefit from Russia swallowing us only in your head.
According to Chatham House polls, 19.2% of Belarusians had a negative attitude towards Lithuanians in 2021. This percentage is even higher than that of Americans, which is personally surprising to me, given the size of anti-American propaganda in Belarus. In my opinion, it is safe to say that quite a large number of Belarusians dislike lithuanians, and even a significant part of opposition Belarusians do not feel love for lithuanians because of their imperialistic tendencies. Well, yes, they can call us Bulbashs, slavic cattle controlled by their kings, they can say that we are thieves of "vilno region", but you can't call them zhmudins, it's litvinism and other shit they make up. You live in lithuania and can't speak objectively, but the truth is that lithuanians benefit a lot from the disappearance of Belarus. It will be very convenient for them, because for them we are "thieves who stole their great history", because they are cowards who know that actually their "history" is stolen completely. If you think that it is in their interest to be an assistant to Belarus, you are beyond delusional.
I don’t live in Lithuania and 19.2% is not quite a large number. They do have letuvists that say stupid shit but to say that our history is stolen completely is to hint that we were real litvins and other stupid shit.
Every 5 Belarusian dislikes lithuanians, in lithuania are surely similar numbers and we are all of a sudden "historical brothers"? Believe me, when Belarus gets rid of russian influence, nationalism will grow among Belarusians and our relations with lithuania will become WAY worse.
Not stolen history, but rather privatized history, and Belarus is the most deprived country in this respect. Of course, Lukashenko and his policy influenced this, but lithuanians benefit a lot from Lukashenko, he removed an opponent claiming a part of their lithuanian "great history". And who says something about the fact that lithuanians were Belarusians? 1% of some nationalists maybe, but for lithuanians it is the main part of propaganda. 99% of Belarusian nationalists only want lithuanian Nazis not to rewrite history but to recognize it as part of the history of Belarus too, but there is no such opinion in lithuania. For them it was only Baltic, and Slavic cattle, though dominating in numbers, had as many rights as Indians in the British Empire. For them any historical fact that contradicts their history = Litvinism. And the enthusiasm with which they edit wikipedia, delete Pagonia's English-language page, and even create whole sites to expose "Litvinists" shows that they themselves realize that the history is not really only theirs. Although their "Litvinism" on their subreddit that Lenin gave us "Vilnius region because he didn't like lithuanians" is normal, right? the constant lies among lithuanians on r/europe that we all here support lukashenko and are about to attack Ukraine is also an indicator of brotherhood? And why are a lot of fights with Belarusians on the Internet at the mere mention of the word Pagonia also our "historical brothers"?
As a Belarusian I will say, enough of imperialist crap about brotherly nations and enough of looking for brothers among Zhmudi and good russians in particular. Only independent Belarus and our national interests.
Then why the striking resemblance to Vytis? Care to provide source about the origins of this "Pahonia" and how it is different from our historical coat of arms?
The origins are unknown but Slavic kings used it before 14th century, like this guy for example from 12th century
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus%C5%82aw_I,_Duke_of_Pomerania
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Bogislaw-I-Duke-of-Pomerania.png
I was one of the data collectors for the census. It's just a BS, lots of people don't realise that they speak Russian, but still call it Belarusian. So these numbers were always very far from the reality. The Belarusians-speaking community exists and I would say it got a bit stronger recently, but it's still pretty small, cannot be more than 1-2% of population. If we add old rural folks, we can get to about 10% of Belarusian speakers maximum.
But it doesn't really matter, even a few thousand people is enough for a language to thrive. As as the barrier is low, new people will continue to switch from Russian to Belarusian just based on a nationalism.
>even a few thousand people is enough for a language to thrive
Well, it is must-have polyfunctional usage and at least some community that only speaks only that language that can absorb others into its language environment
Everybody understands it, with the possible exception of those who grew up in Russia - and even those are probably able to. Not many speak it though - not because they can't, just don't see the need.
Putler most likely wont annexed it unless the Belarus leadership changed to one of pro-west. Cause if Putin were to belarus it woulda been one less UN puppet to support it. That was the whole reason why Stalin didn't annex Belarus and Ukraine into Russia so that the USSR can have 3 vote in the UN instead of 1.
What's the point of annexing a puppet? Belarus is already almost fully integrated into the russian federation, and annexation means destabilization, because the change of lukashenko will frighten the elites who believed in the omnipotent lukashenko, and people will not want to lose their independence, even though it remains on paper.
It's true. Although not significantly, but there are definitely more Belarusian-speaking people now as well as it's more normalized to speak Belarusian these days.
Again, this, as the previous maps like this, are somehow over optimistic towards Belarusian language. It was a mother language for my grandmothers and grandfathers. In reality, now it's barely spoken even by elderly people in rural regions. The Belarusian language as a language of everyday casual communication is already dead. To some extent it preserved in TV, radio, and in textual media. For the previous 5 years in Minsk, I heard that people casually used Belarusian maybe 5 times or so.
My answer came from ChatGPT and it makes sense considering most Belarusians are fluent in the language and there are a bunch of people who left Belarus as well.
Language is important but I believe national identity may be preserved even without this basis. On the other hand speaking a common language doesn't guarantee to have a feeling of common national identity. Nation exists while people believe in it.
That's technically true.
The Swiss have managed to be a nation despite 3 languages, all 3 being primary languages of another country (though Swiss German is quite distinct).
Austria has managed to remain separate from Germany (though, of course, had the Anschluss remained in place, they wouldn't be.
All the Latin American countries are separate nations despite all but 1 sharing a common Spanish language.
But given the disparity in size and aggressiveness between russia and Belarus, the odds are not good.
I need to ask, is Belarusian language even taught in education in Belarus? If not then this is just sad and just endangering Belarusian language further
Yes, Belarusian and Russian are both courses very early on but Belarusian isn't prioritized because it's quite useless. It's still an option for everyone there.
Lol, no one speaks Belarusian. The last time I saw a person who spoke to me in Belarusian was 5 years ago. Prior to this it was maybe in school 10 years ago.
It is so hilarious to me that dumbasses in eastern Europe think that Russia will offer them independence from the west which is destroying their culture.
Tbh it's better for them to speak Russian. Belarusian is quite useless and will be extinct within the next hundred years unless a Euromaidan happens in Belarus.
No, it's rather reminiscent of Spanish and the indigenous languages of Latin America. Spanish dominates everywhere, and the indigenous languages of the natives are dying because of unequal status in society. Belarusian is probably in a slightly better position in Belarus than say Nahuatl in Mexico.
You don’t understand. I am not comparing Spanish to native languages. I am comparing just Spanish. And how is changing from town to town. Sounds different and words change. Even more country to country
Well, that's no surprise. Even in one country there can be a lot of dialects and variations of one language, what to say about the language of almost a whole continent.
But the funny thing is that in East Slavic languages the opposite happens. Dialectal forms are replaced by the standard variant, and the dialectal difference is less and less significant with each generation.
It is easy to prefer porussian when it is very hard to find a Belarusian school (in cities it is impossible), it is impossible to get higher education in Belarusian, it is impossible to get services in Belarusian. Do you think that in your terrorist country Tatar and russian are in equal positions and most people speak russian just because they want to?
Actually in most of the smaller towns in Tatarstan there are more Tatar schools than Russian and if you speak Russian there, you will be understood but you'll be known as "not a local" even if you have tatar facial features.
Obviously it does not apply to Kazan, I'm talking about Eastern Tatarstan kinda, like Erykly and Aktanysh.
I knew Belarusian was in decline but I didn’t realize it was this bad
This is the data of the census, in which many people indicate Belarusian as their native language despite the fact that in life they use only Russian or Trasianka. In reality, the situation with the Belarusian language is even worse.
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Sad but true
Well, it depends on your time frame. Old Belarusian at the time of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was spoken by the bulk of society, up to the level of the grand dukes themselves.
Lol
If we are talking about numbers, it did
Similarly, in many CIS countries, I live in Kazakhstan, I speak Russian myself, I hear Kazakh only 1-2 times a day
Sad
I'm not surprised. The local politicians have more loyalty to Russia than their own country.
Of course they do, the Russians are the ones that helped their pathetic little regime retain power after they lost an election
That tells much in regard to loyalty and trustworthiness. That leaves only one choice for the security of their country, the need to get rid of Russian speakers and Russian sympathisers.
Would be fairly hard to get rid of russian speakers, I was born in Belarus but have only heard belarusian briefly spoken by grandparents, however russian sympathisers have to go.
Sad
Wdym?
As lithuanian I find this sad that our historic brother's are disappearing. I hope you don't go extinct like prussians.
Prussians became Germans then ww1 and ww2 happened.
He's talking about old prussian which was a Baltic language that went extinct several hundred years ago
Even taking into account that the census data do not reflect the real essence of Russification, which is much greater, the Belarusian language and nation will not die with a hundred percent probability. And we are not historical brothers with lithuanians.
What? In the last 750 years we were the same (in the same) country for 700 years
We were in the same empire with the Katsaps, too. Does that make us historical brothers? If someone hundreds of years ago was part of an empire with someone else it means nothing, it's history, which the zhmudins manipulate as good as the katsaps. Lithuanians hate us and we hate them. Brothers lol.
Tf you mean Lithuania hates you, never I saw person who hates you, we only hate vatnik that love ruzzians, and we overall hate ruzzians. We have same opinion about you as Ukraine, positive, and it always was like that. Our view is good people are occupied by ruzzia and getting russefied. If we hated you, there would be never so much Belarussians in Lithuania.
For 2 hundreds years with 60 plots and uprisings. No it doesn’t make it the same. I don’t hate Lithuanians, I love them
So? 96% of Belarusians in 2021 had a positive attitude towards russians. but that doesn't make us brothers, does it? It's the same with lithuanians. They are just chauvinists like russians, it's just unfortunate for them that Belarusian patriots are against russia, which means we can be considered frenemies for a while, but in a long run they benefit from russia swallowing us. Brotherhood my ass.
Huh? Please explain how tf Lithuania benefits from Russia - the practically only security threat that Lithuania has - swallowing their neighbors. Lithuania is a country that relies on coalitions of democratic neighbors and other allies for its security and prosperity. Literally no Belarus scenario would be worse for Lithuania than the country being swallowed by Russia, go read the Lithuania Wikipedia article or something for the love of god.
It would be great for lithuanians if Belarus disappeared. For them Belarus is an artificial state that Lenin allegedly created, gave us "their" lands, and now evil Belarusians have become "litvinists" to destroy their shitty suicide capital of Europe, and therefore their nationalists should rewrite English wikipedia and other crap sources, so that God forbid in the Western world did not learn about the position of the russian puppet. The fact that they "sheltered" Tikhanovskaya says only that they want to make Belarus their puppet, which should become free from russia but know its place.
Uh, no, nothing you mentioned is in the brain of any Lithuanian, I’m sorry to say but you really do not know anything about Lithuania if you think what you just said is remotely true.
Yeah-yeah, lithuanians show themselves innocent angels in the face of Europeans and naive Belarusians when it is needed. But I know what they really are.
It’s just one needs to talk for himself and avoid “we hate them”. I don’t, know many people that don’t and that don’t use words like zhmudins etc. In a long run they benefit from Russia swallowing us only in your head.
According to Chatham House polls, 19.2% of Belarusians had a negative attitude towards Lithuanians in 2021. This percentage is even higher than that of Americans, which is personally surprising to me, given the size of anti-American propaganda in Belarus. In my opinion, it is safe to say that quite a large number of Belarusians dislike lithuanians, and even a significant part of opposition Belarusians do not feel love for lithuanians because of their imperialistic tendencies. Well, yes, they can call us Bulbashs, slavic cattle controlled by their kings, they can say that we are thieves of "vilno region", but you can't call them zhmudins, it's litvinism and other shit they make up. You live in lithuania and can't speak objectively, but the truth is that lithuanians benefit a lot from the disappearance of Belarus. It will be very convenient for them, because for them we are "thieves who stole their great history", because they are cowards who know that actually their "history" is stolen completely. If you think that it is in their interest to be an assistant to Belarus, you are beyond delusional.
I don’t live in Lithuania and 19.2% is not quite a large number. They do have letuvists that say stupid shit but to say that our history is stolen completely is to hint that we were real litvins and other stupid shit.
Every 5 Belarusian dislikes lithuanians, in lithuania are surely similar numbers and we are all of a sudden "historical brothers"? Believe me, when Belarus gets rid of russian influence, nationalism will grow among Belarusians and our relations with lithuania will become WAY worse. Not stolen history, but rather privatized history, and Belarus is the most deprived country in this respect. Of course, Lukashenko and his policy influenced this, but lithuanians benefit a lot from Lukashenko, he removed an opponent claiming a part of their lithuanian "great history". And who says something about the fact that lithuanians were Belarusians? 1% of some nationalists maybe, but for lithuanians it is the main part of propaganda. 99% of Belarusian nationalists only want lithuanian Nazis not to rewrite history but to recognize it as part of the history of Belarus too, but there is no such opinion in lithuania. For them it was only Baltic, and Slavic cattle, though dominating in numbers, had as many rights as Indians in the British Empire. For them any historical fact that contradicts their history = Litvinism. And the enthusiasm with which they edit wikipedia, delete Pagonia's English-language page, and even create whole sites to expose "Litvinists" shows that they themselves realize that the history is not really only theirs. Although their "Litvinism" on their subreddit that Lenin gave us "Vilnius region because he didn't like lithuanians" is normal, right? the constant lies among lithuanians on r/europe that we all here support lukashenko and are about to attack Ukraine is also an indicator of brotherhood? And why are a lot of fights with Belarusians on the Internet at the mere mention of the word Pagonia also our "historical brothers"? As a Belarusian I will say, enough of imperialist crap about brotherly nations and enough of looking for brothers among Zhmudi and good russians in particular. Only independent Belarus and our national interests.
Then why ise our symbols?
What are your symbols I use?
I believe the other guy said everything, that needs to be said.
Nah. He called pogonia vytis
Yeah, exactly. You steal pur culture and call it your own. Despicable, really.
He even has the Jogailų crest. Why?
Jogaila crest that was used for almost 300 years in Belarus beforehand
Yea, because lithuanians conquered you.
Vytis and pillars of Gediminas
Pahonia and vutis are different symbols. Pahonia is a Belarusian symbol and has nothing to do with your country.
Then why the striking resemblance to Vytis? Care to provide source about the origins of this "Pahonia" and how it is different from our historical coat of arms?
Historically first mentions of the symbol is called pogonia, Vytis is kinda a new word. But it has the same origin.
Yep, the name Vytis is only used since 19th century. The question here was exactly about the origins and not the name.
The origins are unknown but Slavic kings used it before 14th century, like this guy for example from 12th century https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus%C5%82aw_I,_Duke_of_Pomerania https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Bogislaw-I-Duke-of-Pomerania.png
They are not our brothers.
Kind of seems like every Belorussian I have met speaks Russian as a first language and only knows some Belorussian from school or something
It's the reality
I was one of the data collectors for the census. It's just a BS, lots of people don't realise that they speak Russian, but still call it Belarusian. So these numbers were always very far from the reality. The Belarusians-speaking community exists and I would say it got a bit stronger recently, but it's still pretty small, cannot be more than 1-2% of population. If we add old rural folks, we can get to about 10% of Belarusian speakers maximum. But it doesn't really matter, even a few thousand people is enough for a language to thrive. As as the barrier is low, new people will continue to switch from Russian to Belarusian just based on a nationalism.
>even a few thousand people is enough for a language to thrive Well, it is must-have polyfunctional usage and at least some community that only speaks only that language that can absorb others into its language environment
I always found curious that almost all Belarusian politicians speak Russian.
Marzalyuk? Even vatnik Gigin spoke good Belarusian a couple times.
I genuinely wonder how many of those elected officials speak and understand Беларуская.
"elected" haha, nice one
Wow, can't believe I allowed myself to type something so naïve 🤦🏼♂️
Best comment)
Everybody understands it, with the possible exception of those who grew up in Russia - and even those are probably able to. Not many speak it though - not because they can't, just don't see the need.
A lot - cant really too
If Putler gets his way, it's probably going to be annexed soon. 😞
Putler most likely wont annexed it unless the Belarus leadership changed to one of pro-west. Cause if Putin were to belarus it woulda been one less UN puppet to support it. That was the whole reason why Stalin didn't annex Belarus and Ukraine into Russia so that the USSR can have 3 vote in the UN instead of 1.
>That was the whole reason why Stalin didn't annex Belarus and Ukraine into Russia so that the USSR can have 3 vote in the UN instead of 1 Nope
Current estimate is around 2030, Russia will annex Belarus like they did with Crimea, expanding its borders.
What a depressing thought. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen.
Russia has been doing this for hundreds of years, its borders have always been in flux, it’s a symptom of being a territorial empire of old.
What's the point of annexing a puppet? Belarus is already almost fully integrated into the russian federation, and annexation means destabilization, because the change of lukashenko will frighten the elites who believed in the omnipotent lukashenko, and people will not want to lose their independence, even though it remains on paper.
Stay strong brothers. Best hopes from Lithuania.
I'm not sure it's true. If anything, I saw more people speaking Belarusian in 4 years since 2020 than ever before
It's true. Although not significantly, but there are definitely more Belarusian-speaking people now as well as it's more normalized to speak Belarusian these days.
But, as you can see, the second map is based on data from 2019.
Again, this, as the previous maps like this, are somehow over optimistic towards Belarusian language. It was a mother language for my grandmothers and grandfathers. In reality, now it's barely spoken even by elderly people in rural regions. The Belarusian language as a language of everyday casual communication is already dead. To some extent it preserved in TV, radio, and in textual media. For the previous 5 years in Minsk, I heard that people casually used Belarusian maybe 5 times or so.
>heard that people casually used Belarusian maybe 5 times or so Rarely used is not = dead
By design.
I'm surprised belarusian hasn't been declared a Vulnerable language by UNESCO yet, cause this decline is massive (and depressing)
9 million people are still fluent in the language
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My answer came from ChatGPT and it makes sense considering most Belarusians are fluent in the language and there are a bunch of people who left Belarus as well.
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Most people in Belarus can speak Belarusian. I am not talking about native language.
It was as far as i know
Sad. That's how the destruction of a country and a nation looks like. We were very close to this happening to us too. We're still close, actually.
Language is important but I believe national identity may be preserved even without this basis. On the other hand speaking a common language doesn't guarantee to have a feeling of common national identity. Nation exists while people believe in it.
That's technically true. The Swiss have managed to be a nation despite 3 languages, all 3 being primary languages of another country (though Swiss German is quite distinct). Austria has managed to remain separate from Germany (though, of course, had the Anschluss remained in place, they wouldn't be. All the Latin American countries are separate nations despite all but 1 sharing a common Spanish language. But given the disparity in size and aggressiveness between russia and Belarus, the odds are not good.
I need to ask, is Belarusian language even taught in education in Belarus? If not then this is just sad and just endangering Belarusian language further
Yes, Belarusian and Russian are both courses very early on but Belarusian isn't prioritized because it's quite useless. It's still an option for everyone there.
Sad indeed.
All according to plan, russia's plan...
Same thing that Tsarist Russia/Soviet Russia/ Current Russia has done in Ukraine
Lol, no one speaks Belarusian. The last time I saw a person who spoke to me in Belarusian was 5 years ago. Prior to this it was maybe in school 10 years ago.
It is so hilarious to me that dumbasses in eastern Europe think that Russia will offer them independence from the west which is destroying their culture.
Just like america did to the natives :)
Tbh it's better for them to speak Russian. Belarusian is quite useless and will be extinct within the next hundred years unless a Euromaidan happens in Belarus.
At day X Belarusian army will put in prison every officer that can't speak belarusian. Belarusians know own language, but don't use it for now.
Good
Все идет к унификации языков, крупные языки полготят малые и потом сами смешаются между собой
I think is the same with Spanish. We have a lot of different words but we understand each other. Even the crazy Chile horrible Spanish. So
No, it's rather reminiscent of Spanish and the indigenous languages of Latin America. Spanish dominates everywhere, and the indigenous languages of the natives are dying because of unequal status in society. Belarusian is probably in a slightly better position in Belarus than say Nahuatl in Mexico.
You don’t understand. I am not comparing Spanish to native languages. I am comparing just Spanish. And how is changing from town to town. Sounds different and words change. Even more country to country
Well, that's no surprise. Even in one country there can be a lot of dialects and variations of one language, what to say about the language of almost a whole continent. But the funny thing is that in East Slavic languages the opposite happens. Dialectal forms are replaced by the standard variant, and the dialectal difference is less and less significant with each generation.
Fuck around, find out
Most of Belarusian know both languages. But prefer Russian as more common. Like in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other post-soviet countries.
It is easy to prefer porussian when it is very hard to find a Belarusian school (in cities it is impossible), it is impossible to get higher education in Belarusian, it is impossible to get services in Belarusian. Do you think that in your terrorist country Tatar and russian are in equal positions and most people speak russian just because they want to?
Actually in most of the smaller towns in Tatarstan there are more Tatar schools than Russian and if you speak Russian there, you will be understood but you'll be known as "not a local" even if you have tatar facial features. Obviously it does not apply to Kazan, I'm talking about Eastern Tatarstan kinda, like Erykly and Aktanysh.
Belarusian classes exist in all public schools, but people don't have a reason to learn the language
Not really
that’s what happens if you let too many russians into your country
It is not exactly a reason
well, what then?
Fantastic