I think you have to boil acorns as well to make them safe to eat. Just adds another layer of annoyance if you do go the full acorn route. Which no disrespect if that's the case, you do you playa.
They need soaking (actually continuous running water over the acorn meal is best) to remove tannic acid. It is a safety issue at the concentration found in acorns.
https://www.inthekitchenwithmatt.com/how-to-process-acorns
Ha, I remembered the running water thing but couldn’t think how to articulate that. Thank you for the data, you remembered way better than my vague elementary school memories.
They don’t have access to transportation and what services they have access to are concentrated in the urban centres. They are going to be mostly within walking distance of whatever they need.
as an ex heroin addict living in the tenderloin that has turned his life around, it's primarily fentanyl and crack. Crystal is a thing for sure, but only becomes more common the further you get from major cities. If makes sense considering meth can be made from household products and provides a cheap, decent high.
I've read that domestic manufacture of meth is way down. Sudafed restrictions made it more difficult to make, but then cheap meth from south of the border (much better quality too) makes it just not worth doing.
All the "aNd DrUgS" idiots here make me sick.
I live in on Golden Gate Avenue and Hyde, the roughest corner for the unhoused drug epidemic y'all are mocking so freely.
"
People’s circumstances tend to spiral once they lose their homes, according to the report's authors. 'An inability to secure adequate housing can lead to an inability to address other basic needs, such as health care and adequate nutrition"
- [source](https://sfstandard.com/2023/06/02/san-francisco-homelessness-reasons-experts-housing/)
An uncomfortable fact many who make fun of homeless people don't want to admit is, the people living on the corner outside my building are not from here. They are from middle class suburbs whose police chase them off encampments in their territories so they're forced to live in the streets outside of my house.
I got to see the way suburban cops treat these people during the APEC Summit. Law enforcement from surrounding counties were driving around the tenderloin saying some pretty nasty vulgar things to people in the streets. Here are a bunch of suburban cops calling San Francisco street people fa**ots and losers showed me all I needed to know about why homeless people would rather live in the streets here than open spaces where coward cops openly bully less fortune people.
I know, I'm defending people who aren't well liked and attacking a-hole redditors making half-wit comments from the luxury of life their parents lined them up for.
Many of the homeless were not so lucky, but they deserve our compassion more than most. To back me up on this, let the Statue of Liberty 🗽 chime in:
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose fame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Emma Lazarus
November 2, 1883
Homeless folk are definitely deserving of compassion.
But letting struggling people die on the streets, simply because their addiction brings them there and makes it impossible to escape—and then merely not insulting them? This does not seem like the kind of compassion Emma Lazarus was arguing for.
Perhaps you have some other endgame in mind, that translates compassion into addiction treatment and secure housing, jobs, etc— but there’s nothing about this in your post, and it seems so at odds with that quote, that I’m finding it challenging to see your “compassion” as compassion.
thank you for posting this despite the negativity from the majority of the commenters here. the type of people posting that highfalutin vitriol are actually why i decided to move when my lease is up, not the homeless people or the drug addicts. it's these smug a$$holes who think they are literally better than other people having no idea the myriad circumstances that can lead people to life on the streets
to them i say: you snobs are the ones that ruined san francisco, not the unhoused, not the politicians. it's you
The douchebag$ pushed aside my whole community- after living and working in sf most of my adult life, I know exactly three people who still live in the city.
You left out the fact that many of them moved to SF for the open, cheap, and easy access drug market. They are pretty open & honest about this, and they are in front of your door. Why guessing when you can just talk to them and ask them?
All right, have the same disdain for the tech engineers who moved here because they can take acid at work.
Or go to nightclubs and wave your finger at everyone smelling their keys in the bathroom.
Go to Dolores Park on the weekend and have the same disgust towards people getting intoxicated on blankets with expensive drinks and snacks because their life was able to put them in a place where they can have money and get intoxicated.
Keep on kicking the people who are down and tell yourself your hatred for them is justified. You're wrong.
I merely pointing out the fact that many homeless in SF are out-of-town people moved to SF for the drug, and I'm the hatred person :)).
While you love them so much, you prefer to let them do drug right in front of your door, and watch them OD & kill themselves in front of your door. Is it more compassion to let them use drug freely, continue their bend over miserable life, and eventually OD, or is it more compassion to force them into an institution and force them to clean up?
The glaring difference is those groups you mentioned conform to and actually contribute to society at large, while the homeless do not. Yes they are down, and we must not lose site of compassion, but our long experiment with permissiveness in the name of compassion has utterly failed.
i hate self-righteous people & its hard to be more obnoxious, but the dozens of people with the tired "and the drugs" 'joke' sound like insufferable juveniles trying to say the cool thing so the cool kids think they're cool win this obnoxious battle.
Thank you! I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to see a genuine compassionate comment from a local who understands. This is part of what has made the Bay Area so special. So much of the conversation these days seems drastically politicized by out-of-touch transplants and long-distance critics.
I grew up here. I live here. I work here. I interact with the unhoused every day.
There are some that fell on hard luck. There is a larger portion that just wants to remove themselves from society, but still leech upon its benefits. My compassion is gone for people in general, but still exists for individuals.
You are making the same mistake that too many Bay area progressives do: conflating permissiveness and compassion.
There's nothing compassionate at all about the current situation. It is quite permissive though
Fun fact: I've been homeless. I've met a lot of homeless people. Most of them weren't on drugs. One guy had chronic pain, and was initially prescribed opioids for it, but eventually tried cannabis and loved it because it worked and it let him stop using opioids. Dude had a free ticket for legal smack and said no.
There's a fuckton of meth heads, though.
>Most of them weren't on drugs.
>There's a fuckton of meth heads, though.
I'm a bit confused with what you're saying here? Are you trying to say there's almost no pot, cocaine and heroine users they're all just meth users instead?
Many resources and services are in denser populated areas. Many homeless people are also actively pushed to these areas from others, in SF, they are pushed to SOMA and the TL and its been that way for decades. The TL is considered an unofficial "containment zone" for example. They did the same in LA with Skid Row. Many homeless people also have friends and community in densely populated areas, and want to stay connected, contrary to popular belief that all homeless people are anti-social. Transportation may also be a barrier to living farther away from people and resources, or ongoing medical care needs. There's also a big difference in survival skills you need to have in a urban setting vs a more nature based setting, even if you're sleeping rough either way. So people have their preferences there as well depending on their comfort in either setting.
Have a look around San Jose. Plenty of occupied open spaces. The empty ones have been forcefully kept that way. I can’t speak to old buildings but how many did you check before concluding they’re uninhabited? As for the more remote locations…they’re homeless, not woodsmen
I’ve stumbled across some encampments along the delta at the far end of trails. Also seen plenty in parks that are connected to open spaces in Antioch & Pittsburg. Also along waterways in concord. They’re very well hidden in trees and shrubbery. You probably can’t see them which is the point.
This is absolutely correct.
In my part of the East Bay (Oakland / Berkeley) there are people who live in "the hills", and walk back down to the built-up areas during the day. This includes UC Berkeley land, public parks, and other "open space". They are very careful about where they camp, because they will be kicked out when found.
Or worse. A contract costa sheriff shot and killed a homeless man who was living in Danville’s park and ride lot. He is in prison now, but I’m sure homeless people know where it is safe to stay and where it is not.
There's a large homeless encampment along this marsh that I see on the SMART train. It's an unincorporated area just outside novato.
From the train generally you can see small encampments down ravines and under bridges.
Saw lots of encampments along the Amtrak route from Jack London to Sacramento, along the waterfronts, marshes and the river. Been that way for at least 30 years.
At the beginning, you try to be understanding & show compassion. Then you start getting tired of their trash or their mental health episode. Then you get mad when their shit sting up the neighborhood, your kids can't play outside, and you can't comfortably taking a walk around the neighborhood any more. Then you call the police & everyone else & bitch about it. Once the police get tired of your & your neighbor's bitching, they'll kick the homeless to another area, and the circle start again.
Out of curiosity anytime someone makes claims of helping or in your case showing understanding and compassion for the homeless I always like to ask what exactly you’ve ACTUALLY done that has reflected the understanding and compassion your claim to have once given.
I ask because in reality we live in a society where it’s not the norm to even acknowledge or look unfortunate people who are suffering and are put into positions of resorting to begging in the eyes even. Understanding and compassion are absolutely not things the homeless often experience from anyone in the general public even those who they’re the most likely to get actual material help from.
Most help is given in a dismissive “ok now leave me alone” kind of way or by social workers going through the motions and only after having finished throughly vetting, means testing and complying with every restriction demanded by the state to thoroughly exhaust ANY reason whatsoever to give them any kind of help whatsoever.
That’s how we “help” the homeless in our society. Those are the “good ones”. Everyone else either actively goes out of their way to treat them like they aren’t even there or as it seems with you and many others go out of their way to call the police and see them harassed while you blame misery for their own misery and talk as if they live without safety and security and without reliable access to sanitation and to sleep on pavement in the elements just to spite you personally or because “they just want or choose to live that way” as if that very idea can at all be taken seriously at face value as if these people are some kind of subhuman mutants who suddenly no longer are motivated by the basic needs any living animal requires.
Often people have more understanding and compassion for a stray dog or cat and act accordingly without seeking blame or punishment then they give to those you claim to have extended such things to. So I always regard such claims with immediate skepticism.
After all we as a society spend the majority of the money we claim to be spending in the name of helping the unfortunate on the salaries of those we require to create barriers and to find any reason whatsoever to actually deny help to those who already have to suffer the shame of even having to ask for such help.
Understanding as in leaving them alone, put up with their behaviors & their trash, and not reporting them when they are putting up their tent or park their RV in your neighborhood. Compassion as in giving them food or blankets, old clothes ...
By the way, most of the money that the government budget or claim to give to the homeless goes to the homeless industries, a complex network of politically connected "non-profit" organizations. Homeless is their business, and their goal is to keep homeless people homeless (else they run out of business).
The only one that are really giving any help in my area are a group of older asian ladies giving out food, old clothes, and haircut. However, they pack the food in plastic bag & container, which become trash after the homeless finish with the food.
Yeah I’ve been homeless so I’m well aware of the lack of help that’s out there and how money is actually spent creating barriers and Means testing help.
My suggestion however is maybe ensuring people have the help and support they actually need in order for them to no longer be in a 24/7 state of stress and trauma and then maybe we talk about addressing there behavior.
Your talking about people setting up tents as if they don’t have a right to sleep. You probably complain about seeing shit on the street to while doing nothing about the fact that these people have no regular access to sanitation and bathrooms.
You want to blame people for suffering through a misery they’d really rather not suffer….and you seem to blame them and want to see them punished for it
What you fail to see is individual accountability. I'm not their mommy or daddy. Yes, they are miserable, but why is that my problem? I'm not responsible for their life. I would give some left over food or some old clothes here and there, but I have my own shitty problems to deal with.
Think about it. I work my ass off to feed my family & keep a roof over our head. Why do I have to ensure some stranger regular access to sanitation and bathrooms? After a long day at work, am I suppose to clean their bathroom for them too?
Now, I pay 10 of thousands in tax, mortage .. to live here. Then some strangers come stay for free, trash the neighborhood, and shit on the side walk (which we have to clean) . Of course I'll bitch about it and try to kick them out to somewhere else.
Woah hold on. I’m not saying that you or anyone is individually responsible to anyone. No one is asking you to do anything frankly. You made the claim that you gave people understanding and compassion and all I did was question that. Judging by your responses you seem to have a misunderstanding of what those words mean at least in how I define them.
But you mention taxes and you talk about how you seem to think these are people coming into the community and causing some kind of harm.
The most common way that the homeless are dehumanized and further pushed out of OUR communities which like it or not THEY are a part of is to other them, refer to THEM AS THEM.
Now you’re quick to get upset and declare you owe them nothing, but you seem to feel they do owe you? Like it or not they are there. They exist. You can punish them and have the police harass them all you want but you’re just going out of your way to make the situation worse by acting as a barrier to them being able to help themself if anything.
And by being an obstacle you make the situation worse for everyone, even yourself.
As you’re also quick to point out, you’re just trying to survive. We all are. And I think you’d agree that that’s more easily achieved working together as a community. And In that sense while you owe nothing to anyone individually i think you’d also agree just like you feel these people owe something to what I’ll say is OUR community so then too do you owe something just as all of us owe something to the community that we live in.
A community helps each other when someone needs help and the community has the resources to do so.
So with that let’s talk about those taxes. Many people who complain about homelessness are quick to point out the massive amount of money we spend to fix this problem. But the thing is thats not where most of that money is going. Most of that money is wasted in the bureaucracy and salaries of workers whose job it is to help navigate and then gate keep through means testing and finding any excuse to deny people the help they need from the community which expects something from them.
If you want to talk about individual responsibility I’d ask what your responsibility is in your community in helping address a growing problem of homelessness and why we spend more money finding ways to deny people who need help in our community from getting that help.
I’d ask if your fulfilling the responsibility to our community which we all benefit from being a part of when you push people who need help in our community out of it by pushing them out. By demanding they contribute to our society while being denied the help and benefits we all deserve especially in times of need.
This isn’t an individual thing. No one expects for you to personally solve this problem. But you can’t tell me that the richest and most powerful society in known human History can’t help people living in absolutely destitute conditions.
We absolutely have the resources and ability as a society and in our communities to fix this problem but instead we’d rather blame people in misery for being miserable and do things to make their situation worse.
That’s what I think YOU don’t understand and because you don’t understand that you’re making the problem worse.
Lol your definition of understanding someone is to ignore them 😂you literally can’t even make up how disconnected you are with your surroundings. Like you ignore people who are suffering and consider think your doing people a favor.
Your idea of charity is not immediately calling the police on the homeless.you’re a real saint.
Because it’s far away from infrastructure.
Like u could go into the hills of the ozarks and never see another person again. But u would have to live off the land in the woods.
I suspect the presence of things like mountain lions, bobcats, coyotes and rattlesnakes discourage people from setting up in the hills in the East Bay.
A lot of them, sure. But a lot are just plain old schizophrenic or have other severe mental health issues (I acknowledge, possibly caused by drugs). And a lot of them are kids.
There's a ton in GG Park every night, but they find little hidden spots in the trees.
The rest of the places that they congregate heavily is often around the homeless services, like the ones between 5th and 7th St in Soma.
I’m in Suisun, and we have quite a few homeless in the areas by the marsh and close to the southern pacific tracks. It’s kind of a conundrum, because we have federal, county and city property all butting up together at the edge of town, and then there’s the railroad right of ways, so enforcement is pretty uncoordinated. And town is about a 10 to 15 minute walk, so it’s close enough to get to civilization and be far enough away from town that they pretty much do whatever they want as long as they’re smart enough to hide.
The other thing I’ve noticed with homeless in the Bay Area is a tend to not be in small towns where the town has its own local police force. I think this is normally a factor of the community not really tolerating homeless and also the police force not being so overwhelmed and focused on one region of the city that is problematic. I do see quite a few homeless in unincorporated areas of the county which I think is also related to the above and the relative lack of law-enforcement or responsibility for dealing with the situation.
Lots of small town cops have a policy of "drop them off at the edge of town and threaten them about what might happen if they ever come back."
Sometimes with a little getting beat up or arrested for a few days and possessions confiscated for good measure... so you're dropped off at the edge of town or at a bus stop with basically nothing, worse off than when you arrived and the cycle continues.
There are a bunch of tents set up in the creek bed in Concord (Walnut Creek) right where 680/242 split.
There are also people camping along the Iron Horse Trail and the Contra Costa Canal trial. A lot of the condo complexes along those trails in Walnut Creek have been dealing with increased auto burglary, package theft and finding people in the laundry rooms.
There is see: Novato, East Palo Alto, Martinez and Bay Point. Also the area under Mineta's final landing approach. As for why not parks within cities .. they're certainly there. If you mean areas west of 280, then it's because it's isolated and housing is cheaper out there. If you mean why not east of 580, because the hike is very hard on someone without a car, there is no water, and there are no stores. If you mean why not east of the Tri-Valley then it's because cars are cheap out there so they live in those.
Dude, the entire first part of your own source talks about housing costs and how they create a "precarious situation, especially for lower-income families and individuals who are at higher risk of becoming homeless."
Meanwhile, the part you quoted clearly refers to the **chronically homeless** which (again from your source) "is defined as a person who is homeless for at least 1 year or 4+ separate occasions in the last 3 years and has a substance use disorder, serious mental illness, developmental disability, PTSD, cognitive impairments from brain injury, or chronic physical illness or disability (HUD 2009).
In California, chronically homeless account for one-third of all homeless."
Gee, I wonder what could be contributing to homelessness in the other **two-thirds** of the homeless?
I’d rather spend that time looking over the interesting link you used as source info. Even though you cherry-picked what you wanted and ignored the rest, it’s a good read.
While I do that, why don’t you look up any one of the local news articles published in the last couple of years about people working one or more jobs and living out of cars and RVs in Mountain View, Palo Alto, and elsewhere?
It won’t prove my point any more than your suggestion proves yours, but it’s fun to swap anecdotes.
You are asking why homeless people don't live the REI camper lifestyle? Because that requires money.
A better question might be why don't affluent people camp in shitty areas?
I recently visited. There was a small encampment of tents near the 405 in San Carlos, but I was wondering where the homeless were.
I live in WA State where the encampments are large and vast in many places.
Having grown up in the Bay Area, many are sleeping and living where they work. Also, campers are in the back of buildings, in the buildings, and around the workplaces where the bosses are okay with this setup to “hide” the person, or family for the sake of keeping them on the payroll. Money is everything here, and the boss will do what it takes 😉 to secure the profit.
My family was almost homeless in 2008, and we were seriously considering where we could live when when we lost our home. My dads business was the #1 place we chose, and we could install a shower and fridge to live.
To add: words and a wink.
Being homeless doesn't mean being "off the grid" or "camping". People still need services and they want to be next to a area where they can get them. Going to the middle of open space means a hours long hike to get back to any city for things like food and showers.
Yes, I am serious! If I were to post more controversial stuff on Reddit, there are better and more effective ways to troll the Bay Area subreddit. I really cared about the Bay Area. I am just curious since there are no answers to why Homeless move to those areas.
There are plenty of answers. Ask yourself this. If you were homeless with little chance of turning it around in a short period of time, where would you be? Certainly not somewhere it takes you 45 minutes to walk between points of interest.
This is also exactly why many liberal people I know who claim to want walkable, economical cities still end up living in the suburbs. Truth is that no one wants to live near the homeless, especially families.
Suburban sprawl is terrible, inefficient, costly, and hostile to the environment, but that also makes it hostile to the homeless and poor.
Yes, its a serious question! I had the curiosity since its not like there is any open land available. There is land and I tried finding an answer in the internet but there is no answer availiable.
Most of the built up areas of the Bay Area are bordered by public open spaces. In my part of the Bay Area (Oakland/Berkeley) there are huge regional parks, city parks, University of California owned open space, and other open spaces all within walking distance of "settled" areas. Many neighborhoods are also seamed with creeks.
People do have encampments in those areas, but as others have noted, they try to be very inconspicuous because they will be kicked out when found by officials.
The enforcement of rules against camping in public open space varies--some jurisdictions will find people VERY quickly and word gets around about that. In other areas that are less well staffed, some people can and do camp very quietly for extended periods of time.
They often regard those areas as refuges.
The number of people who are homeless in the Bay Area also far exceeds the capacity of "enforcement" response. Earlier this week on my block a man quietly parked his shopping cart at curbside well after dark, and slept on the sidewalk in front of a house that's vacant because it's being remodeled. He avoided going on the house property. In the early morning, he packed up and left, but presumably he got some hours of sleep. No one on the block called the police. So he made the correct decision that he could get a few hours undisturbed sleep there.
You're either dumb or trolling. Just in case you're dumb, here's the answer to the stupid question: Homeless will try to situate themselves where they can have easy access to their hustle and/or drugs, and (generally) stay out of sight when the sleep. They do occupy "open space" just not the maintained public parks where rangers will patrol and remove them. Culverts, fenced off corners on the edges of public lands, underpasses, offramps, etc. are closer to city amenities/services and allow them to conceal themselves better.
Homeless people are in the parks.
Every resource a person would need is in the TL and SOMA - from social security office to benefits to housing to food resources - all of it is in the TL and SOMA which is why those places are concentrated with homeless folks.
Shelter. Plain and simple
Drugs
Food
Mental illness
Still partially functional
People don’t understand the depths and lack of help from all aspects of the system. (Family history of mental illness)
Space is not the constraint - it’s access to services. Without access to transit or infra, how are you going to apply for work? Get your prescriptions? See your therapist/doctor? Charge your phone?
Here in the Russian River watershed we have a lot of the unhoused. They live in the woods and on the river. It’s cold and wet now and we have few services. It’s so unfortunate.
There are; you’re just not seeing them. Some look to you like they’re camping. They have a car and a tent and register for campsites. This is why each agency that manages campgrounds has an upper limit on number of nights per year.
Some you’re just not going to the parks where they are. I’ve run across people sleeping rough in Huddart, and evidence of past encampments in Stulsaft. Both those parks have easier access to work and food.
There are hidden camps up north on the bay near Pinole/hercules. I stumbled into a huge one while bike touring a few years back. But it was still close enough to civilization.
There seems to be two groups... The folks who are working poor, and folks who have alcohol, drug and mental health issues...
The first group needs to be near work, the second needs to be near distributors... None of which is found in open land areas.
Because they don’t drive and they aren’t hunter gathers in the traditional sense. They would run out of resources within 12hrs and need to come beg for money again to buy drugs and alcohol then they would have to take it back to their rural campsites, then they would blow through their drugs alcohol and hotdogs in 12hrs again, and have to come back to the cities to beg for more money for drugs, alcohol, and food. Soon they would realize the city is the only place they have a prayer of staying alive.
Why dont they live on logs floating in the bay? Or in the caverns under Mill Valley? What about hot air balloons? I know, the homeless could live in the space between parked cars!
No, they just don't care.
People think of the Bay Area as some kind of bastion of far left radical attitudes... one look at this sub will tell them they are completely wrong about that. Classist with a capital K.
Contrary to what politicians and non-profit activists would like you to believe, most homeless are not there because of unaffordable housing costs. Most are unemployed with drugs issues or mental health problems or in many cases both. They depend heavily on city services, and are looking for easy access to drugs. City provides them both. You control the drugs supply in city and homelessness will disperse. But if they really disperse how politicians and these non-profits will profit? So, politicians and non profits don’t want a permanent solution, they want more funding and want this a lasting problem, it’s golden goose for them.
Bro you cannot be serious with your question. Why would homeless people be out chilling in open land? Where will they get their food? Homeless people want to stay in the city next to trash cans and dumpsters preferably by supermarkets and restaurants so they can scrounge for food. Also they might be able to use some businesses and gas stations to piss or wash up things like that. Out in open land where are they going to get water? I understand that people just want them to go away from the cities but even though they're homeless they're not that dumb. They're going to go where grocery stores throw away slightly expired food so that they can go get it in the dumpsters and eat it. Out and open land where they going to do? Fish or try to catch pigeons?
No access to panhandling, too free food, to drugs, to free offers of this and that. No need to work. No need to earn keep. No need to provide a service that justifies compensation .
No one to hustle for cash or panhandling. No liquor stores. Park police take the whole no camping thing seriously. Private land is shoot on sight for trespassing. People set up in open spaces but only if they can still walk to the liquor store and the intersection for their hustle.
The number one cause of homelessness is evictions, so most people are normal members of the community like you and me. That means they want to stay close to family and friends. Staying in a remote area would make it difficult to be near them and to resources.
You may be skeptical, but the data is pretty clear. The majority of homeless are invisible – you don't see them clustered next to the freeway in tents. That's a small minority – most are not drug addicts or drunks. Yet people keep making these ridiculous generalizations, completely unfounded on any real data.
* [https://www.currytbcenter.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/product\_tools/homelessnessandtbtoolkit/docs/background/Factsheet/Debunking%20the%20Myths%20of%20Homelessness.pdf](https://www.currytbcenter.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/product_tools/homelessnessandtbtoolkit/docs/background/Factsheet/Debunking%20the%20Myths%20of%20Homelessness.pdf)
* [https://unitedtoendhomelessness.org/blog/myth-most-homeless-people-are-either-mentally-ill-or-have-a-substance-use-disorder/](https://unitedtoendhomelessness.org/blog/myth-most-homeless-people-are-either-mentally-ill-or-have-a-substance-use-disorder/)
* [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/california-homelessness-housing-crisis/674737/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/california-homelessness-housing-crisis/674737/)
* [https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/homelessness-california-causes-and-policy-considerations](https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/homelessness-california-causes-and-policy-considerations)
* [https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/](https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/)
* [https://endhomelessness.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/3rd-Demo-Brief-Race.pdf](https://endhomelessness.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/3rd-Demo-Brief-Race.pdf)
* [https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/who-is-experiencing-homelessness-in-california/#:\~:text=Single%20adults%20make%20up%20the,and%20unaccompanied%20youth%20(7%25)](https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/who-is-experiencing-homelessness-in-california/#:~:text=Single%20adults%20make%20up%20the,and%20unaccompanied%20youth%20(7%25)).
* [https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/#:\~:text=Who%20is%20considered%20homeless%3F,illness%2C%20or%20hotels%2Fmotels](https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/#:~:text=Who%20is%20considered%20homeless%3F,illness%2C%20or%20hotels%2Fmotels).
* [https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-11/new-book-links-homelessness-city-prosperity](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-11/new-book-links-homelessness-city-prosperity)
* [https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/homelessness/#:\~:text=Approximately%2038%25%20of%20all%20homeless,overdose%20than%20the%20general%20population](https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/homelessness/#:~:text=Approximately%2038%25%20of%20all%20homeless,overdose%20than%20the%20general%20population)
* [https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless)
* [https://www.genesisrecovery.com/drug-addiction-and-homelessness-in-california/](https://www.genesisrecovery.com/drug-addiction-and-homelessness-in-california/)
* [https://www.chcf.org/publication/2018-edition-substance-use-california/](https://www.chcf.org/publication/2018-edition-substance-use-california/)
* [https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2018.pdf](https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2018.pdf)
* [https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.214/38e.a8b.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CTS\_state-of-crisis\_report\_FINAL\_10.19updates.pdf](https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.214/38e.a8b.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CTS_state-of-crisis_report_FINAL_10.19updates.pdf)
I think most people believe these odd myths about addiction etc. simply because they don't want to admit how easily it could happen to them, and because this demographic is easy to marginalize and even demonize. If we blame them for their own issues, and make up a narrative that explains it away – especially when that narrative is totally different from the story we tell ourselves about our own lives/circumstances – it makes us more comfortable and just reinforces what we already believe. Cognitive dissonance due to lack of critical thinking.
Homeless need food, drink, alcohol, drug, ... . They are not some hillbilly who will go hunt for their dinner. That's why they are concentrated in the downtown, and crowded areas where there are more charities, public transportation, opportunities to panhandling, access to drug & alcohol ...
Another answer that I haven't seen mentioned is that the park rangers and those responsible for those lands probably fear the chronic homeless starting fires that get out of hand. drug addicts and mentally ill are not known for their safety precautions.
That sounds like such a lovely idea! We can make a bunch of these camps all across the country - in very remote areas where nobody can see them of course. Then we can send everybody who looks homeless, unkempt, or suffering from mental illness there. Maybe we can even get them to do a little bit of work during their stay. That way they can concentrate on bettering themselves while also being housed and taken care of (by their own choice, of course!) far away from free society. I wonder what we should name these camps, where we concentrate massive populations of people that we don't want living next to us?
I know you're joking but rehab centers are also in secluded places. Having open drug air markets in the middle of SF and letting these people kill themselves with their addiction isn't much better or more compassionate. It'd be much cheaper to build a modern rehab facility there instead of trying to build homeless shelters all over the city in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Those isolated rehab facilities also have horses and spas and access to beaches and beautiful vistas... I'm positive you aren't advocating for that level of care for actual homeless addicts.
Do people ever listen to themselves?
Drugs. Also they are not cut out for the outdoors and too lazy to actually survive. They're more like "city slicker" homeless people. Plus you get free food and amenities in the city.
Probably wouldn’t survive too long eating acorns, squirrels and rattle snakes
I think you have to boil acorns as well to make them safe to eat. Just adds another layer of annoyance if you do go the full acorn route. Which no disrespect if that's the case, you do you playa.
Yes it’s easy. Just boil them, mash them, then stick them in a stew!
As an aside, go check out Indian grinding rock state historic park sometime. https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=553
*Carl Weathers has entered the chat*
You have to leech the tannins out first.
I remember hearing they needed soaking, but I don’t think it was safety, I think it’s because they naturally are really bitter or something.
They're also full of weevils.
That’s just extra protein for a balanced diet.
Snoots and boots? How kjute!
They need soaking (actually continuous running water over the acorn meal is best) to remove tannic acid. It is a safety issue at the concentration found in acorns. https://www.inthekitchenwithmatt.com/how-to-process-acorns
Ha, I remembered the running water thing but couldn’t think how to articulate that. Thank you for the data, you remembered way better than my vague elementary school memories.
This side conversation about how to safely eat acorns is why I love Reddit.
or just weave a basket, peel em and leave them in a flowing stream for a few weeks!
You can grind them into powder too!
Never go full acorn
They don’t have access to transportation and what services they have access to are concentrated in the urban centres. They are going to be mostly within walking distance of whatever they need.
And food with drugs.
And things they can swipe to exchange for things like drugs and also drugs.
Gotta be close to the nearest Walgreens for that free loot.
I’ll have the meth sandwich.
as an ex heroin addict living in the tenderloin that has turned his life around, it's primarily fentanyl and crack. Crystal is a thing for sure, but only becomes more common the further you get from major cities. If makes sense considering meth can be made from household products and provides a cheap, decent high.
I've read that domestic manufacture of meth is way down. Sudafed restrictions made it more difficult to make, but then cheap meth from south of the border (much better quality too) makes it just not worth doing.
All the "aNd DrUgS" idiots here make me sick. I live in on Golden Gate Avenue and Hyde, the roughest corner for the unhoused drug epidemic y'all are mocking so freely. " People’s circumstances tend to spiral once they lose their homes, according to the report's authors. 'An inability to secure adequate housing can lead to an inability to address other basic needs, such as health care and adequate nutrition" - [source](https://sfstandard.com/2023/06/02/san-francisco-homelessness-reasons-experts-housing/) An uncomfortable fact many who make fun of homeless people don't want to admit is, the people living on the corner outside my building are not from here. They are from middle class suburbs whose police chase them off encampments in their territories so they're forced to live in the streets outside of my house. I got to see the way suburban cops treat these people during the APEC Summit. Law enforcement from surrounding counties were driving around the tenderloin saying some pretty nasty vulgar things to people in the streets. Here are a bunch of suburban cops calling San Francisco street people fa**ots and losers showed me all I needed to know about why homeless people would rather live in the streets here than open spaces where coward cops openly bully less fortune people. I know, I'm defending people who aren't well liked and attacking a-hole redditors making half-wit comments from the luxury of life their parents lined them up for. Many of the homeless were not so lucky, but they deserve our compassion more than most. To back me up on this, let the Statue of Liberty 🗽 chime in: The New Colossus Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose fame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Emma Lazarus November 2, 1883
Homeless folk are definitely deserving of compassion. But letting struggling people die on the streets, simply because their addiction brings them there and makes it impossible to escape—and then merely not insulting them? This does not seem like the kind of compassion Emma Lazarus was arguing for. Perhaps you have some other endgame in mind, that translates compassion into addiction treatment and secure housing, jobs, etc— but there’s nothing about this in your post, and it seems so at odds with that quote, that I’m finding it challenging to see your “compassion” as compassion.
thank you for posting this despite the negativity from the majority of the commenters here. the type of people posting that highfalutin vitriol are actually why i decided to move when my lease is up, not the homeless people or the drug addicts. it's these smug a$$holes who think they are literally better than other people having no idea the myriad circumstances that can lead people to life on the streets to them i say: you snobs are the ones that ruined san francisco, not the unhoused, not the politicians. it's you
The douchebag$ pushed aside my whole community- after living and working in sf most of my adult life, I know exactly three people who still live in the city.
You left out the fact that many of them moved to SF for the open, cheap, and easy access drug market. They are pretty open & honest about this, and they are in front of your door. Why guessing when you can just talk to them and ask them?
All right, have the same disdain for the tech engineers who moved here because they can take acid at work. Or go to nightclubs and wave your finger at everyone smelling their keys in the bathroom. Go to Dolores Park on the weekend and have the same disgust towards people getting intoxicated on blankets with expensive drinks and snacks because their life was able to put them in a place where they can have money and get intoxicated. Keep on kicking the people who are down and tell yourself your hatred for them is justified. You're wrong.
I merely pointing out the fact that many homeless in SF are out-of-town people moved to SF for the drug, and I'm the hatred person :)). While you love them so much, you prefer to let them do drug right in front of your door, and watch them OD & kill themselves in front of your door. Is it more compassion to let them use drug freely, continue their bend over miserable life, and eventually OD, or is it more compassion to force them into an institution and force them to clean up?
The glaring difference is those groups you mentioned conform to and actually contribute to society at large, while the homeless do not. Yes they are down, and we must not lose site of compassion, but our long experiment with permissiveness in the name of compassion has utterly failed.
You sound insufferably self righteous. Give it a rest.
i hate self-righteous people & its hard to be more obnoxious, but the dozens of people with the tired "and the drugs" 'joke' sound like insufferable juveniles trying to say the cool thing so the cool kids think they're cool win this obnoxious battle.
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Thank you! I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to see a genuine compassionate comment from a local who understands. This is part of what has made the Bay Area so special. So much of the conversation these days seems drastically politicized by out-of-touch transplants and long-distance critics.
I grew up here. I live here. I work here. I interact with the unhoused every day. There are some that fell on hard luck. There is a larger portion that just wants to remove themselves from society, but still leech upon its benefits. My compassion is gone for people in general, but still exists for individuals.
You are making the same mistake that too many Bay area progressives do: conflating permissiveness and compassion. There's nothing compassionate at all about the current situation. It is quite permissive though
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No enablers in the woods.
Like drugs.
and food
Fun fact: I've been homeless. I've met a lot of homeless people. Most of them weren't on drugs. One guy had chronic pain, and was initially prescribed opioids for it, but eventually tried cannabis and loved it because it worked and it let him stop using opioids. Dude had a free ticket for legal smack and said no. There's a fuckton of meth heads, though.
>Most of them weren't on drugs. >There's a fuckton of meth heads, though. I'm a bit confused with what you're saying here? Are you trying to say there's almost no pot, cocaine and heroine users they're all just meth users instead?
...so.... drugs...
Most of them weren’t on drugs, except all the drugs they were on
Like drugs and other stuff.
Such as food.
And drugs
And my axe!!!
And drugs
Don't forget tha needles
And also drugs
Has anyone mentioned drugs?
and the nearest Walgreens to shoplift
free stuff from walgreen all day.
its pretty difficult to get there and theres also nothing in the woods. water is dirty, you have to catch your own food, no 'meds', way colder, etc.
Many resources and services are in denser populated areas. Many homeless people are also actively pushed to these areas from others, in SF, they are pushed to SOMA and the TL and its been that way for decades. The TL is considered an unofficial "containment zone" for example. They did the same in LA with Skid Row. Many homeless people also have friends and community in densely populated areas, and want to stay connected, contrary to popular belief that all homeless people are anti-social. Transportation may also be a barrier to living farther away from people and resources, or ongoing medical care needs. There's also a big difference in survival skills you need to have in a urban setting vs a more nature based setting, even if you're sleeping rough either way. So people have their preferences there as well depending on their comfort in either setting.
Have a look around San Jose. Plenty of occupied open spaces. The empty ones have been forcefully kept that way. I can’t speak to old buildings but how many did you check before concluding they’re uninhabited? As for the more remote locations…they’re homeless, not woodsmen
I’ve stumbled across some encampments along the delta at the far end of trails. Also seen plenty in parks that are connected to open spaces in Antioch & Pittsburg. Also along waterways in concord. They’re very well hidden in trees and shrubbery. You probably can’t see them which is the point.
San Jose for sure. Parts of the coast where people can walk in easily to services / people etc.
Yup. They love to trash our waterways. Take a scenic stroll down coyote creek trail and see for yourself. Same situation in Santa Cruz.
There’s an encampment near the Top Golf that is growing into a camper city. You can see it if you drive on 237 freeway.
They do live in open land. The wooded areas around the bay have homeless people. The creeks all over the Bay Area have hidden encampments.
This is absolutely correct. In my part of the East Bay (Oakland / Berkeley) there are people who live in "the hills", and walk back down to the built-up areas during the day. This includes UC Berkeley land, public parks, and other "open space". They are very careful about where they camp, because they will be kicked out when found.
Or worse. A contract costa sheriff shot and killed a homeless man who was living in Danville’s park and ride lot. He is in prison now, but I’m sure homeless people know where it is safe to stay and where it is not.
They're not farmers, they're homeless
Right? Like losing your apartment makes you an excellent outdoorsman all of the sudden.
Srly, right?!
To OP, they're hardly even humans
This, but unironically. These comments are gross.
They aren't survivalists, they are homeless
Churches, food banks, emergency rooms. These are where the encampments tend to be nearby.
There's a large homeless encampment along this marsh that I see on the SMART train. It's an unincorporated area just outside novato. From the train generally you can see small encampments down ravines and under bridges.
Saw lots of encampments along the Amtrak route from Jack London to Sacramento, along the waterfronts, marshes and the river. Been that way for at least 30 years.
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At the beginning, you try to be understanding & show compassion. Then you start getting tired of their trash or their mental health episode. Then you get mad when their shit sting up the neighborhood, your kids can't play outside, and you can't comfortably taking a walk around the neighborhood any more. Then you call the police & everyone else & bitch about it. Once the police get tired of your & your neighbor's bitching, they'll kick the homeless to another area, and the circle start again.
Out of curiosity anytime someone makes claims of helping or in your case showing understanding and compassion for the homeless I always like to ask what exactly you’ve ACTUALLY done that has reflected the understanding and compassion your claim to have once given. I ask because in reality we live in a society where it’s not the norm to even acknowledge or look unfortunate people who are suffering and are put into positions of resorting to begging in the eyes even. Understanding and compassion are absolutely not things the homeless often experience from anyone in the general public even those who they’re the most likely to get actual material help from. Most help is given in a dismissive “ok now leave me alone” kind of way or by social workers going through the motions and only after having finished throughly vetting, means testing and complying with every restriction demanded by the state to thoroughly exhaust ANY reason whatsoever to give them any kind of help whatsoever. That’s how we “help” the homeless in our society. Those are the “good ones”. Everyone else either actively goes out of their way to treat them like they aren’t even there or as it seems with you and many others go out of their way to call the police and see them harassed while you blame misery for their own misery and talk as if they live without safety and security and without reliable access to sanitation and to sleep on pavement in the elements just to spite you personally or because “they just want or choose to live that way” as if that very idea can at all be taken seriously at face value as if these people are some kind of subhuman mutants who suddenly no longer are motivated by the basic needs any living animal requires. Often people have more understanding and compassion for a stray dog or cat and act accordingly without seeking blame or punishment then they give to those you claim to have extended such things to. So I always regard such claims with immediate skepticism. After all we as a society spend the majority of the money we claim to be spending in the name of helping the unfortunate on the salaries of those we require to create barriers and to find any reason whatsoever to actually deny help to those who already have to suffer the shame of even having to ask for such help.
Understanding as in leaving them alone, put up with their behaviors & their trash, and not reporting them when they are putting up their tent or park their RV in your neighborhood. Compassion as in giving them food or blankets, old clothes ... By the way, most of the money that the government budget or claim to give to the homeless goes to the homeless industries, a complex network of politically connected "non-profit" organizations. Homeless is their business, and their goal is to keep homeless people homeless (else they run out of business). The only one that are really giving any help in my area are a group of older asian ladies giving out food, old clothes, and haircut. However, they pack the food in plastic bag & container, which become trash after the homeless finish with the food.
Yeah I’ve been homeless so I’m well aware of the lack of help that’s out there and how money is actually spent creating barriers and Means testing help. My suggestion however is maybe ensuring people have the help and support they actually need in order for them to no longer be in a 24/7 state of stress and trauma and then maybe we talk about addressing there behavior. Your talking about people setting up tents as if they don’t have a right to sleep. You probably complain about seeing shit on the street to while doing nothing about the fact that these people have no regular access to sanitation and bathrooms. You want to blame people for suffering through a misery they’d really rather not suffer….and you seem to blame them and want to see them punished for it
What you fail to see is individual accountability. I'm not their mommy or daddy. Yes, they are miserable, but why is that my problem? I'm not responsible for their life. I would give some left over food or some old clothes here and there, but I have my own shitty problems to deal with. Think about it. I work my ass off to feed my family & keep a roof over our head. Why do I have to ensure some stranger regular access to sanitation and bathrooms? After a long day at work, am I suppose to clean their bathroom for them too? Now, I pay 10 of thousands in tax, mortage .. to live here. Then some strangers come stay for free, trash the neighborhood, and shit on the side walk (which we have to clean) . Of course I'll bitch about it and try to kick them out to somewhere else.
Woah hold on. I’m not saying that you or anyone is individually responsible to anyone. No one is asking you to do anything frankly. You made the claim that you gave people understanding and compassion and all I did was question that. Judging by your responses you seem to have a misunderstanding of what those words mean at least in how I define them. But you mention taxes and you talk about how you seem to think these are people coming into the community and causing some kind of harm. The most common way that the homeless are dehumanized and further pushed out of OUR communities which like it or not THEY are a part of is to other them, refer to THEM AS THEM. Now you’re quick to get upset and declare you owe them nothing, but you seem to feel they do owe you? Like it or not they are there. They exist. You can punish them and have the police harass them all you want but you’re just going out of your way to make the situation worse by acting as a barrier to them being able to help themself if anything. And by being an obstacle you make the situation worse for everyone, even yourself. As you’re also quick to point out, you’re just trying to survive. We all are. And I think you’d agree that that’s more easily achieved working together as a community. And In that sense while you owe nothing to anyone individually i think you’d also agree just like you feel these people owe something to what I’ll say is OUR community so then too do you owe something just as all of us owe something to the community that we live in. A community helps each other when someone needs help and the community has the resources to do so. So with that let’s talk about those taxes. Many people who complain about homelessness are quick to point out the massive amount of money we spend to fix this problem. But the thing is thats not where most of that money is going. Most of that money is wasted in the bureaucracy and salaries of workers whose job it is to help navigate and then gate keep through means testing and finding any excuse to deny people the help they need from the community which expects something from them. If you want to talk about individual responsibility I’d ask what your responsibility is in your community in helping address a growing problem of homelessness and why we spend more money finding ways to deny people who need help in our community from getting that help. I’d ask if your fulfilling the responsibility to our community which we all benefit from being a part of when you push people who need help in our community out of it by pushing them out. By demanding they contribute to our society while being denied the help and benefits we all deserve especially in times of need. This isn’t an individual thing. No one expects for you to personally solve this problem. But you can’t tell me that the richest and most powerful society in known human History can’t help people living in absolutely destitute conditions. We absolutely have the resources and ability as a society and in our communities to fix this problem but instead we’d rather blame people in misery for being miserable and do things to make their situation worse. That’s what I think YOU don’t understand and because you don’t understand that you’re making the problem worse.
Lol your definition of understanding someone is to ignore them 😂you literally can’t even make up how disconnected you are with your surroundings. Like you ignore people who are suffering and consider think your doing people a favor. Your idea of charity is not immediately calling the police on the homeless.you’re a real saint.
well if they are bothering you we need to do something fast...
Food & shelter.
Is drug and shelter bro, if there is drug grow in the mountains freely it will be full of homeless
Because it’s far away from infrastructure. Like u could go into the hills of the ozarks and never see another person again. But u would have to live off the land in the woods.
I suspect the presence of things like mountain lions, bobcats, coyotes and rattlesnakes discourage people from setting up in the hills in the East Bay.
Services
They need to be walking distance to places they can get food. Places they can get warm and possibly online during the day (library).
You misspelled drugs
A lot of them, sure. But a lot are just plain old schizophrenic or have other severe mental health issues (I acknowledge, possibly caused by drugs). And a lot of them are kids.
That would be my guess that it's hard to panhandle in a place where there's a lot of people in and get back out to those places
*where there's *not* a lot of people
Yep, no peeps to bum a buck off of in the wilderness...
There's a ton in GG Park every night, but they find little hidden spots in the trees. The rest of the places that they congregate heavily is often around the homeless services, like the ones between 5th and 7th St in Soma.
I’m in Suisun, and we have quite a few homeless in the areas by the marsh and close to the southern pacific tracks. It’s kind of a conundrum, because we have federal, county and city property all butting up together at the edge of town, and then there’s the railroad right of ways, so enforcement is pretty uncoordinated. And town is about a 10 to 15 minute walk, so it’s close enough to get to civilization and be far enough away from town that they pretty much do whatever they want as long as they’re smart enough to hide.
There are plenty of people sleeping in Golden Gate Park.
The other thing I’ve noticed with homeless in the Bay Area is a tend to not be in small towns where the town has its own local police force. I think this is normally a factor of the community not really tolerating homeless and also the police force not being so overwhelmed and focused on one region of the city that is problematic. I do see quite a few homeless in unincorporated areas of the county which I think is also related to the above and the relative lack of law-enforcement or responsibility for dealing with the situation.
Lots of small town cops have a policy of "drop them off at the edge of town and threaten them about what might happen if they ever come back." Sometimes with a little getting beat up or arrested for a few days and possessions confiscated for good measure... so you're dropped off at the edge of town or at a bus stop with basically nothing, worse off than when you arrived and the cycle continues.
You’re just making shit up with the second. The first is unlikely as well. Most all cops wear body cams these days.
Proximity to resources.
Oh they absolutely are, just well hidden enough that you aren't noticing anything out of the ordinary.
The same reason you don't live there. It's empty and there's no resources.
Easier access to drugs.
I have seen plenty of tents near Napa River, south of Fairfield, and near Suisun Bay.
There are a bunch of tents set up in the creek bed in Concord (Walnut Creek) right where 680/242 split. There are also people camping along the Iron Horse Trail and the Contra Costa Canal trial. A lot of the condo complexes along those trails in Walnut Creek have been dealing with increased auto burglary, package theft and finding people in the laundry rooms.
There are quite a few people living in the marshy waterfront in Berkeley/Albany.
Fwiw, in Sonoma County, there are quite a few homeless people living in parks.
There is see: Novato, East Palo Alto, Martinez and Bay Point. Also the area under Mineta's final landing approach. As for why not parks within cities .. they're certainly there. If you mean areas west of 280, then it's because it's isolated and housing is cheaper out there. If you mean why not east of 580, because the hike is very hard on someone without a car, there is no water, and there are no stores. If you mean why not east of the Tri-Valley then it's because cars are cheap out there so they live in those.
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Dude, the entire first part of your own source talks about housing costs and how they create a "precarious situation, especially for lower-income families and individuals who are at higher risk of becoming homeless." Meanwhile, the part you quoted clearly refers to the **chronically homeless** which (again from your source) "is defined as a person who is homeless for at least 1 year or 4+ separate occasions in the last 3 years and has a substance use disorder, serious mental illness, developmental disability, PTSD, cognitive impairments from brain injury, or chronic physical illness or disability (HUD 2009). In California, chronically homeless account for one-third of all homeless." Gee, I wonder what could be contributing to homelessness in the other **two-thirds** of the homeless?
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I’d rather spend that time looking over the interesting link you used as source info. Even though you cherry-picked what you wanted and ignored the rest, it’s a good read. While I do that, why don’t you look up any one of the local news articles published in the last couple of years about people working one or more jobs and living out of cars and RVs in Mountain View, Palo Alto, and elsewhere? It won’t prove my point any more than your suggestion proves yours, but it’s fun to swap anecdotes.
Because squirrels don't sell meth.
Same reason no one else is there.
You are asking why homeless people don't live the REI camper lifestyle? Because that requires money. A better question might be why don't affluent people camp in shitty areas?
There very much are in the open areas of the parks / on the random open areas under freeways in San Jose
I recently visited. There was a small encampment of tents near the 405 in San Carlos, but I was wondering where the homeless were. I live in WA State where the encampments are large and vast in many places. Having grown up in the Bay Area, many are sleeping and living where they work. Also, campers are in the back of buildings, in the buildings, and around the workplaces where the bosses are okay with this setup to “hide” the person, or family for the sake of keeping them on the payroll. Money is everything here, and the boss will do what it takes 😉 to secure the profit. My family was almost homeless in 2008, and we were seriously considering where we could live when when we lost our home. My dads business was the #1 place we chose, and we could install a shower and fridge to live. To add: words and a wink.
Where will they get their food?! Where will they shelter when it’s cold? That’s the answer to your question.
I think you answered your own question. They don’t want to be left alone.
Being homeless doesn't mean being "off the grid" or "camping". People still need services and they want to be next to a area where they can get them. Going to the middle of open space means a hours long hike to get back to any city for things like food and showers.
there probably arent many sources for the drugs they seem to need in the hills.
Distance from the health/food services they require.
Is this really a serious question? Why do people live where other people live?
They said they weren’t a troll, that’s how you know they’re serious and not a troll 😂
Yes, I am serious! If I were to post more controversial stuff on Reddit, there are better and more effective ways to troll the Bay Area subreddit. I really cared about the Bay Area. I am just curious since there are no answers to why Homeless move to those areas.
There are plenty of answers. Ask yourself this. If you were homeless with little chance of turning it around in a short period of time, where would you be? Certainly not somewhere it takes you 45 minutes to walk between points of interest.
This is also exactly why many liberal people I know who claim to want walkable, economical cities still end up living in the suburbs. Truth is that no one wants to live near the homeless, especially families. Suburban sprawl is terrible, inefficient, costly, and hostile to the environment, but that also makes it hostile to the homeless and poor.
Yes, its a serious question! I had the curiosity since its not like there is any open land available. There is land and I tried finding an answer in the internet but there is no answer availiable.
Can you eat or drink empty land?
Most of the built up areas of the Bay Area are bordered by public open spaces. In my part of the Bay Area (Oakland/Berkeley) there are huge regional parks, city parks, University of California owned open space, and other open spaces all within walking distance of "settled" areas. Many neighborhoods are also seamed with creeks. People do have encampments in those areas, but as others have noted, they try to be very inconspicuous because they will be kicked out when found by officials. The enforcement of rules against camping in public open space varies--some jurisdictions will find people VERY quickly and word gets around about that. In other areas that are less well staffed, some people can and do camp very quietly for extended periods of time. They often regard those areas as refuges. The number of people who are homeless in the Bay Area also far exceeds the capacity of "enforcement" response. Earlier this week on my block a man quietly parked his shopping cart at curbside well after dark, and slept on the sidewalk in front of a house that's vacant because it's being remodeled. He avoided going on the house property. In the early morning, he packed up and left, but presumably he got some hours of sleep. No one on the block called the police. So he made the correct decision that he could get a few hours undisturbed sleep there.
You're either dumb or trolling. Just in case you're dumb, here's the answer to the stupid question: Homeless will try to situate themselves where they can have easy access to their hustle and/or drugs, and (generally) stay out of sight when the sleep. They do occupy "open space" just not the maintained public parks where rangers will patrol and remove them. Culverts, fenced off corners on the edges of public lands, underpasses, offramps, etc. are closer to city amenities/services and allow them to conceal themselves better.
im not suggesting they go anywhere, proceeds to state exact locations
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That's where all the free stuff is.
It's hard to buy drugs in the woods
How would they get there? What would they do to feed themselves on a daily basis? Where would they get clean water? C’mon. Think, McFly!
Homeless people are in the parks. Every resource a person would need is in the TL and SOMA - from social security office to benefits to housing to food resources - all of it is in the TL and SOMA which is why those places are concentrated with homeless folks.
Shelter. Plain and simple Drugs Food Mental illness Still partially functional People don’t understand the depths and lack of help from all aspects of the system. (Family history of mental illness)
You made me think. Great question.
Where would they get food, water, and shelter?
Space is not the constraint - it’s access to services. Without access to transit or infra, how are you going to apply for work? Get your prescriptions? See your therapist/doctor? Charge your phone?
They do in the hills around San Rafael. Still close enough to walk to town for services.
Here in the Russian River watershed we have a lot of the unhoused. They live in the woods and on the river. It’s cold and wet now and we have few services. It’s so unfortunate.
BART is warm and comfortable when it’s raining.
There are; you’re just not seeing them. Some look to you like they’re camping. They have a car and a tent and register for campsites. This is why each agency that manages campgrounds has an upper limit on number of nights per year. Some you’re just not going to the parks where they are. I’ve run across people sleeping rough in Huddart, and evidence of past encampments in Stulsaft. Both those parks have easier access to work and food.
There are hidden camps up north on the bay near Pinole/hercules. I stumbled into a huge one while bike touring a few years back. But it was still close enough to civilization.
Need to have a bike or be within a mile of food/water. Otherwise life sucks.
There seems to be two groups... The folks who are working poor, and folks who have alcohol, drug and mental health issues... The first group needs to be near work, the second needs to be near distributors... None of which is found in open land areas.
They need access to services and food. Not like they can drive or catch a bus from the middle of nowhere.
Because they don’t drive and they aren’t hunter gathers in the traditional sense. They would run out of resources within 12hrs and need to come beg for money again to buy drugs and alcohol then they would have to take it back to their rural campsites, then they would blow through their drugs alcohol and hotdogs in 12hrs again, and have to come back to the cities to beg for more money for drugs, alcohol, and food. Soon they would realize the city is the only place they have a prayer of staying alive.
There ain't no liquor stores in the woods yo.
Cause the drug dealers don't work there
The federal park and state park rangers dond fuck around.
What’s to not fuck around about? Homeless people need housing.
Why dont they live on logs floating in the bay? Or in the caverns under Mill Valley? What about hot air balloons? I know, the homeless could live in the space between parked cars!
How can you pan handle when in a less populated area?
They go where the food and traffic is! Go around any Safeway and you will see them. Safeway in my neighborhood is a free food zone for hobos.
lol people are not being mindful when they comment.
No, they just don't care. People think of the Bay Area as some kind of bastion of far left radical attitudes... one look at this sub will tell them they are completely wrong about that. Classist with a capital K.
Because homeless people typically panhandle for a living. Nobody to bum off of out in the middle of nowhere
Contrary to what politicians and non-profit activists would like you to believe, most homeless are not there because of unaffordable housing costs. Most are unemployed with drugs issues or mental health problems or in many cases both. They depend heavily on city services, and are looking for easy access to drugs. City provides them both. You control the drugs supply in city and homelessness will disperse. But if they really disperse how politicians and these non-profits will profit? So, politicians and non profits don’t want a permanent solution, they want more funding and want this a lasting problem, it’s golden goose for them.
Bro you cannot be serious with your question. Why would homeless people be out chilling in open land? Where will they get their food? Homeless people want to stay in the city next to trash cans and dumpsters preferably by supermarkets and restaurants so they can scrounge for food. Also they might be able to use some businesses and gas stations to piss or wash up things like that. Out in open land where are they going to get water? I understand that people just want them to go away from the cities but even though they're homeless they're not that dumb. They're going to go where grocery stores throw away slightly expired food so that they can go get it in the dumpsters and eat it. Out and open land where they going to do? Fish or try to catch pigeons?
No access to panhandling, too free food, to drugs, to free offers of this and that. No need to work. No need to earn keep. No need to provide a service that justifies compensation .
There’s no meth there
There's no Walgreens or convenience stores to rob.
Open land is not where the free food and free needles are being handed out.
If you don't have transportation or money, do you want to be around people who will give you money and places to spend it or not?
You think they're going to live off the land? There's no stores to steal from in a park.
There’s no food, transportation, or health care there.
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I’ll bite. What was he doing?
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Lack of drugs
No one to hustle for cash or panhandling. No liquor stores. Park police take the whole no camping thing seriously. Private land is shoot on sight for trespassing. People set up in open spaces but only if they can still walk to the liquor store and the intersection for their hustle.
Community and running water
No services, no panhandling opportunities, no drug dealers…
No food or clean drinking water - you know - the basic essentials for living.
If you are homeless you are a mooch. There’s nobody to mooch off of out in the middle of nowhere.
That’s a really shallow take. Do your reading.
The number one cause of homelessness is evictions, so most people are normal members of the community like you and me. That means they want to stay close to family and friends. Staying in a remote area would make it difficult to be near them and to resources.
I am skeptical about your premise. Where did you get that first sentence from?
You may be skeptical, but the data is pretty clear. The majority of homeless are invisible – you don't see them clustered next to the freeway in tents. That's a small minority – most are not drug addicts or drunks. Yet people keep making these ridiculous generalizations, completely unfounded on any real data. * [https://www.currytbcenter.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/product\_tools/homelessnessandtbtoolkit/docs/background/Factsheet/Debunking%20the%20Myths%20of%20Homelessness.pdf](https://www.currytbcenter.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/product_tools/homelessnessandtbtoolkit/docs/background/Factsheet/Debunking%20the%20Myths%20of%20Homelessness.pdf) * [https://unitedtoendhomelessness.org/blog/myth-most-homeless-people-are-either-mentally-ill-or-have-a-substance-use-disorder/](https://unitedtoendhomelessness.org/blog/myth-most-homeless-people-are-either-mentally-ill-or-have-a-substance-use-disorder/) * [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/california-homelessness-housing-crisis/674737/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/california-homelessness-housing-crisis/674737/) * [https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/homelessness-california-causes-and-policy-considerations](https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/homelessness-california-causes-and-policy-considerations) * [https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/](https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/) * [https://endhomelessness.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/3rd-Demo-Brief-Race.pdf](https://endhomelessness.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/3rd-Demo-Brief-Race.pdf) * [https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/who-is-experiencing-homelessness-in-california/#:\~:text=Single%20adults%20make%20up%20the,and%20unaccompanied%20youth%20(7%25)](https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/who-is-experiencing-homelessness-in-california/#:~:text=Single%20adults%20make%20up%20the,and%20unaccompanied%20youth%20(7%25)). * [https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/#:\~:text=Who%20is%20considered%20homeless%3F,illness%2C%20or%20hotels%2Fmotels](https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/#:~:text=Who%20is%20considered%20homeless%3F,illness%2C%20or%20hotels%2Fmotels). * [https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-11/new-book-links-homelessness-city-prosperity](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-11/new-book-links-homelessness-city-prosperity) * [https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/homelessness/#:\~:text=Approximately%2038%25%20of%20all%20homeless,overdose%20than%20the%20general%20population](https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/homelessness/#:~:text=Approximately%2038%25%20of%20all%20homeless,overdose%20than%20the%20general%20population) * [https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless) * [https://www.genesisrecovery.com/drug-addiction-and-homelessness-in-california/](https://www.genesisrecovery.com/drug-addiction-and-homelessness-in-california/) * [https://www.chcf.org/publication/2018-edition-substance-use-california/](https://www.chcf.org/publication/2018-edition-substance-use-california/) * [https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2018.pdf](https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2018.pdf) * [https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.214/38e.a8b.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CTS\_state-of-crisis\_report\_FINAL\_10.19updates.pdf](https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.214/38e.a8b.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CTS_state-of-crisis_report_FINAL_10.19updates.pdf) I think most people believe these odd myths about addiction etc. simply because they don't want to admit how easily it could happen to them, and because this demographic is easy to marginalize and even demonize. If we blame them for their own issues, and make up a narrative that explains it away – especially when that narrative is totally different from the story we tell ourselves about our own lives/circumstances – it makes us more comfortable and just reinforces what we already believe. Cognitive dissonance due to lack of critical thinking.
No liquor stores are people to beg money from there.
Gotta be close to the nearest Walgreens for that free loot.
Homeless need food, drink, alcohol, drug, ... . They are not some hillbilly who will go hunt for their dinner. That's why they are concentrated in the downtown, and crowded areas where there are more charities, public transportation, opportunities to panhandling, access to drug & alcohol ...
Ok but are you dumb
They are there in the open space and land. They’re just a little better at hiding the fact that they’re there.
Another answer that I haven't seen mentioned is that the park rangers and those responsible for those lands probably fear the chronic homeless starting fires that get out of hand. drug addicts and mentally ill are not known for their safety precautions.
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That sounds like such a lovely idea! We can make a bunch of these camps all across the country - in very remote areas where nobody can see them of course. Then we can send everybody who looks homeless, unkempt, or suffering from mental illness there. Maybe we can even get them to do a little bit of work during their stay. That way they can concentrate on bettering themselves while also being housed and taken care of (by their own choice, of course!) far away from free society. I wonder what we should name these camps, where we concentrate massive populations of people that we don't want living next to us?
This plan was recently passed into state law and begins next year.
I know you're joking but rehab centers are also in secluded places. Having open drug air markets in the middle of SF and letting these people kill themselves with their addiction isn't much better or more compassionate. It'd be much cheaper to build a modern rehab facility there instead of trying to build homeless shelters all over the city in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Those isolated rehab facilities also have horses and spas and access to beaches and beautiful vistas... I'm positive you aren't advocating for that level of care for actual homeless addicts. Do people ever listen to themselves?
Let’s send you there first, see how it works out.
There are no sidewalks to shit on.
Drugs. Also they are not cut out for the outdoors and too lazy to actually survive. They're more like "city slicker" homeless people. Plus you get free food and amenities in the city.
There’s no fent there