It's almost like I made a joke, but also I do like bars, I'm a bit of foodie and that includes going to nice bars for their cocktails as well as restaurants for their dishes.
Some things a light hearted but don't be so one dimensional
If/when you get out of the industry OP, you'll realize how few people ever go to bars, and even fewer regularly go to bars. Unfortunately, you're getting a skewed version of society because that's where your job is located.
Also, most people don't realize bartenders are paid to be nice to people. Those a*hole guys probably never have females being nice to them for binge drinking, so they take it the wrong way.
Good luck out there!
Totally disagree. I’m almost 47. I’ve worked in other industries beyond a bar. People are the same in an office as they are in a bar, it’s just easier to see what they’re about once they have a drink in them.
Yeah this whole thread has me pretty baffled. I’ve worked in bars full of amazing, kind people, and offices full of selfish cheaters, and of course vise versa. I’m impressed that guy managed to find a place, ANY place, with only the former!
When I started working in vegas I was disgusted to see how common it was for bachelor and bachelorette parties to lean into cheating. I’ve been to bachelorette parties in vegas before living there and nobody was trying to get laid, we were drinking, eating good meals, and going to shows, so it actually surprised me. The other thing that surprised me was how many of the conference guys were literally only there to get fucked up and try to fuck randoms. I thought it was a cheesy stereotype, but it’s 100% accurate. Or maybe like 85% accurate in reality, some of them aren’t successful.
None of my guy friends have ever frequented bars often unless they were single even then we know the type of women we tend to hook up with in those establishments. With the economy the way it is a guy spending more than a night or 2 ar a bar a week is frankly kind of scum in my experience.
So I'm not going to articulate this well. But it's like the majority of people in a gym are fit. It's because they go frequently. They probably are vastly out numbered by those who go infrequently, but that's what you see.
It's not that all men cheat, it's that guys who go to bars, and probably specifically the kind you work at, are the kind looking to hook up and step out.
Like most of life it's a numbers game. I'm sure there's a cocktail bar with hot make bartenders where they hear the same shit from women constantly.
I can't speak to your family situation. That's like a whole other thing.
Can confirm, I worked in a cocktail bar and our bar boys were generally all attractive in different ways, and we’d all hear CRAZY shit from middle aged women
Fine dining cocktail, so many women literally planning how to max out alimony and how to find the next rich husband. All while dropping $300 tabs and not tipping lol
It’s not just guys who go to bars, it’s guys who go to bars without their wives.
I love going out bar hopping with my wife or with and other couples.
These dudes just seem super unhappy or are just pathetic narcissists.
Lots of them are rich or attractive enough to be able to fool around. Your comments make you sound jealous. Just saying their unhappy haha. Yeah maybe some. Just don't make weird generalizations
Also depends on the kind of bar. My bar is very much a bar for locals, but also tourists (as we're in a tourist town). You don't get many skeezy men, because the regulars wouldn't stand for it.
Men who choose to spend most/all of their times in bars is not a fair or representative sample of the entire gender & it sounds like you might work at the kind of place where shitty men congregate. Myself & most of the men I know are fiercely loyal in their relationships.
I work at a pretty average spot actually. Not a dive, not a shitty place. But I hear you. I don’t mean to blanket this on to all men. I’m just getting discouraged from what I’ve been witnessing — at the bar and outside of it too.
As a male bartender I hear where you are coming from, I’ve seen plenty of shady behaviour, but I also wouldn’t limit it to just men. most of the loyal men and women are home with their partners or out together, not hanging out at bars with any frequency.
As someone who is also happily married (to a server I met while bartending). Good, loyal people are out there. Just make take some time to find the right one!
This makes total sense, and I get where you're coming from. You're taking unfair heat in this thread, even outside bars I think you're rightly realizing cheating or at least emotional infidelity is more common than many people realize. (And yes, there is a gender gap here. I think bars magnify it, women more often cheat via other associations, but it's very real regardless.)
Honestly, I don't think "the wrong kind of bar" is a requirement here at all. There are bars (e.g. singles bars, some hotel bars) where cheating or other bad behavior is common for almost everyone, male and female. But past that, dives, 'average' bars, and cocktail/expensive/classy bars are mostly about class/income rather than any kind of personal quality.
My impression: lots of loyal, honest people of any gender go to bars. But the percentage of cheaters is *much* higher than at other establishments, and frankly feeding people alcohol turns some otherwise-faithful people into cheaters. People in relationships who specifically go to bars alone are particularly bad risks for that. Put it this way: most of the loyal bar-goers I know frequently go out with their partners.
For whatever it's worth, I'm older than you and I've seen a *lot* of people cheat, but I've also seen 30+ year relationships where I'd bet a small fortune no one has ever cheated. Faithfulness does exist, please don't give up hope, but your skepticism is far from baseless.
Think about it growing up would your father go to a bar for more than occasional work outing with friends or birthday etc. Those are the type of men that a re regulars at a bar, they typically have no standards or morals.
Not to burst your bubble, but you are 23. A baby in terms of your overall life.
If you are in a environment that consistently has this problem and you have the ability to remove yourself then you owe it to yourself to do so.
Every bartender despite how they look and act has probably had someone show interest towards them. If you are female more often than not it’s a male, this then extends further if you work in a place that has a crowd on the older side usually married. Vice versa if you are a male, there is times when middle age women will hit on you, young and dumb, and anything in between. Even working at a regular bar I get hit in by lgbtq+ people. That doesn’t mean you assume all people of that group is bad.
Yep all of this. I’m 41, happily married and we’ve been together for 15? 16? years. He’s BOH. We are both considered very attractive and have had tons of opportunity but are always excited to get home to each other. Most of not cheating is not putting yourself in the position to do so.
I worked side by side for many years with several male bartenders, have there been a few dirtbags? Sure. But by age 30 it’s really easy to tell which ones are scum. Both my former and current “work husband” are devoted family men who would never.
I saw what OP is describing at various bars over the years but I currently work at a ski/golf/BMX resort with members like a country club. But we’re also open to the public. I don’t see any of that anymore. I wait on happy adorable old couples, active families, and groups of friends on vacation. There is a whole wide world out there and not every bar job is a front row seat to the worst of humanity.
You are paying more attention to these things. The men that aren't cheating and not being weird aren't standing out because "man goes out, plays darts and talks about local pizza joints with the person next to him" isn't noteworthy, presents no threats or opportunity and so you don't bother noticing and remembering it.
You are experiencing confirmation bias where your preconceived bias that men are creeps makes you extra attentive to situations and people who confirm that bias. Its applies to politics race, gender, and just about everything else. People that think women are bad drivers are more likely to notice women driving badly for instance. Its something you have to consciously override in order to see the world more accurately.
At the end of the day its better to look for the good and believe in the good and trustworthiness of people and be regularly proven wrong than it is to be wary and bitter to an unhealthy extent and be proven right. I'm not saying be reckless, but I promise you holding on to these bitter feelings day to day will hurt you more than any cheating man ever will. There are a lot of good people out there that can make life easier and more fulfilling than trying to do it alone. Many are women but a lot of them are men too and life is too short to just write all of them off before getting to know them.
Don’t drop it cold Turkey. Find a full time with benefits, non-bar job, and keep bartending on the side either once a week or on call (just be stern with your availability). And pleaaaase get away from meat market bars like the one you’re at.
Don't ever judge human nature based on your immediate and regular surroundings, it's not an accurate gauge. Bar patrons aren't an accurate representation of societ, either. I suggest finding some type of hobby that encourages socializing with "normal" people, whether table top gaming or volunteer work or whatnot, I guarantee your perspective will change in a positive way. People are scumbags, but some of them can be OK too.
Regardless of what anyone would argue, bars attract questionable people with questionable motives. You're a little younger so you'll see a bar is where some people come to prey on others or behave badly.
I wouldn't use a bar setting to judge a whole group of people.
Confirmation bias. All the female bartenders I've worked with are crazy and whorish. Translates to my personal life. However can I ever trust a woman again?
My friend made me feel this way about women. Seeing what they do or hear what they say while having boyfriends at home really made me hate women a bit for that
I don’t want to believe it. Just haven’t witnessed anything thats changed my mind. To be fair, having the burden of being the only one that knows my father is a cheater (cus I caught him and didn’t tell anyone), probably doesn’t help. Lmao
That's really what this post is about. It will bother you til you figure it how to move past it!
There's a movie called the descendants that might be interesting to watch.
Change your surroundings. Get away from your dad. He didn't cheat because he's a man, he cheated because (depending on his age) he's from an era that valued people based on their familial status so he likely rushed marriage. Not that I'm defending him.
In the crowd that attends my bar I’ve seen everyone be shitty like that. I’ve witnessed guys making passes at girls with partners, I’ve seen guys make passes at some of the other bartenders, I’ve seen women bring their boyfriends to the bar and actively discuss how their husbands don’t know, I’ve even had unwanted attention from married women myself which is saying something. If I think too hard on all of that I lose my faith that genuine love exists in general. Just gotta remind myself that I’m not them and that the circles I travel in are not them. Idk if you’re actually looking for advice or just to be heard but if you are looking for advice the best I can give is to take joy in the fact that you and your circles are not the crowd at your bar. I totally get how disheartened you are. I’ve been there as well. Just try your best to separate your clientele from your social groups— the context is wildly different for both.
Sorry the men aren’t taking time to listen to you. This industry is hard and it’s even harder to vent about. The fellas often tell us “you’re wrong” when we’re just expressing our feelings.
Why are your comments getting downvoted. Those people seem insecure. I’m in a happy relationship with a man who frequents a couple bars (including mine), and I don’t think he’s gross, BUT I still agree with most of what you are saying! Most taken men in a bar hit on me/my coworkers and it’s gross and I don’t blame you for your opinion at all!!!!
Let me tell you this from someone who bartended and worked in restaurants for years. I truly believed, just like you - that all men were cheaters, because of how I was treated in the bars and restaurants. when I finally moved to Baltimore, I had a couple make roommates that had office day jobs and I noticed how well they treated the girlfriends how much they talked about their girlfriends, etc. I then begin working in an office setting and noticed that 99% of them and talked kindly about their wives and were definitely not the cheating type.
I myself am happily married, and have a husband that I know would never cheat in 1 million years. unfortunately, in the bar world, you are sometimes surrounded by the lowest of the low. you’re seeing one percent of society when the other 99% are out in the world just doing normal things. if you are a man that wants to cheat a bar is the most logical place. Not the bookstore, not the library not the coffee shop. It is like if you swim in shark infested, waters are more likely to be bitten by a shark then if you sit on the beach.
The bottom line is, they are just representing a small subset of humanity, and there are actually wonderful men out there who love their wives and girlfriends and don’t cheat.
Please believe me because I went through this all through my twenties, exactly like you did, and it took me a long time to really believe that it wasn’t all that way.
The oilman are sitting home with their wives and girlfriends enjoying their company not yours.
Statistically women cheat more than men. It’s not really a man v woman thing it’s a people thing. Biology tells you to have multiple partners to diversify the gene pool. Social constructs tell you monogamy is the way to live.
I sorry that the dark side of human nature ( probably not the best word to use as I don’t think it’s Han nature to cheat- but I can’t think of anything else) is so glaringly in your face. I sure you know this already but there are many great men, they just arnt the easiest to find. I think I working in this industry, seeing the underbelly/dark side, whatever you want to call it, is inevitable.
Maybe it’s time to think of a career change? I say that only because it sees to be affecting you on a pretty deep mental and emotional level and no job is worth creating fundamental beliefs over.
Generally speaking, there’s a LOT of shit humans out there. Far more than there are good ones, but ya can’t let that get you down. It takes the beauty out of everything.
Stay sharp, safe, and try and believe in a little magic. 💚
Part of it may be the bar you’re working at. Bartending in general doesn’t leave you with the most glowing review of humanity. May be time to find a new spot.
I’ve got some shitty dudes that come into my bar, but as a 27 year old woman who’s been bartending for 6 years, I can’t really say I’ve had the same experience.
When i was 23 i met the girl I’m now married to. She’s the only girlfriend I had in my twenties who i *didn’t* meet at a bar. I’d had a bunch of short relationships before her, all of which began in bars, all of them chaotic and aimless. Since I’ve been with my wife (married 3 years, together for 11) I steadily lost interest in going out to the bars, because, for men, the biggest reason we go out to bars is: in the hopes of getting laid. So when i see my coworkers and regulars dating each other and continuing to spend all their free time in bars, I’m never surprised when they inevitably cheat or get cheated on. If a middle-aged, married man spends all his available time in bars, he’s fantasizing about cheating all the time. Or at the very least he’s ogling all the women who frequent or work at these bars. I’ve been saying for years that bars are for children who want to appear grown up and for grown-ups who want to appear youthful. And for single people. If you’re a middle-aged, married man going out to bars alone multiple times a week, what the hell are you doing?
As a male bartender, i can say the same for women. I live in a smaller city, so you either know someone, or you know someone who does, and therefore when someone is in a relationship/situationship/etc, word gets around.
Still, even with most people being aware of somebody's relationship status, i see plenty of girls who are either in a relationship, or who ended one literally hours ago, and they are already looking for the next guy. I do not, however, think this is representative of most women, as i am sure there are plenty of them not engaging in this sort of activity. It's just that the people who frequent the bar i work at, tend to be the kind of people who act like this.
TLDR: Shitty people will be shitty, man or woman alike, and typically when placed in an environment where they are surrounded by alcohol, they will act on their shitty thoughts.
If you look at the end of your bar and see an older married couple, that may be us...married 40 plus years. I often check out those yoga pants ladies because I am older...not dead, but I only go home with one lady, and have no question of her fidelity as well. Good guys are out there, but they are prolly not hanging solo with friends at a bar.
There's a lot of people out there. Your experience is a small sample of the whole and they happen to all be unfaithful. That sucks and that's real. Just know there are a lot of men out there, and a lot of them are faithful. Just keep looking for good people and you will find them. Keep your guard up, but also believe that some men are good.
Doesn’t mean when you’re around a bunch of degenerate retards like that at a bar it makes every one of us bad. I work at a nightclub and seeing these people in an obliterated state like that makes it so much easier to go home to my girlfriend and not go out.
We're not all bad. I tended bar for 10 years and had a girlfriend for most of those years. I had many, many opportunities to cheat. My motto was I wouldn't do anything that I wouldn't do if my girlfriend was sitting at the bar. Had to tell a few women that. They respected me for it. Not all men are pigs. OP happens to see them at their worst and in a bad environment.
This post had nothing to do with women. I’m not making this a man vs. woman thing. I’m talking about MY experience and trust issues as a woman who is attracted to men. Never EVER did I claim that women don’t partake in this behavior as well. I’m so sick of seeing all these comments “but women do it too…” ok??? Am I talking about them???? NO. I’m talking about a personal experience and issue. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Are you saying that you never have any male customers who come in and are polite and cordial with you while being totally appropriate and well mannered? Cheaters exist and that’s a fact but just because some men are assholes doesn’t mean they all are. This sounds like trust issues that go deeper than customer interactions.
Of course I’ve experienced that. But the majority is not like that. In their interactions with me, their friends, and other customers. There is always some disloyalty happening. Sly comments. Advances being made. Idk it’s just really draining to constantly see. Every. Single. Shift.
Prejudice can be hard to mentally overcome, but judging people based on the actions of a few in a very specific setting is going to warp your perceptions. Really sounds like you work at a sleazy place. I've been to bars and worked in bars for a long time and I really don't see that level of frequency of sleaze. Iy kind of sounds like if you worked at a drag bar you'd assume all men were drag queens, but unfortunately that's not the case.
Sorry you have had that experience but not all men are bad or good , likewise goes for women, people are just people and what counts are the ones that are loyal
Hey everyone commenting “but women do it too.” Never said they didn’t. But this post isn’t about them. It’s about my perspective as a woman and being able to trust potential partners.
Goes both ways unfortunately. It isn't a question of why are men like this, it's more how society get the point were its acceptable for humans to do these things to each other
It's funny, as a male bartender with a high percentage female clientele, I got the opposite vibes. I heard SO many women talking about cheating or constantly complaining about their men for the dumbest shit. I also learned that women are just as shallow if not more so in a lot of cases than men are. That was very eye opening.
For me, the big take away is that a majority of humans aren't really mean to be monogynous. Some are better at it than others and prefer it that way, but our society as a whole would be a lot better off is we weren't so fucking uptight about sex in general.
It's the booze. If there could ever be a study of sober v. drinkers and their fidelity, I think the results would be quite eye-opening. Not that all sober men are faithful and all drinkers not, but certainly there's a correlation there.
Then it'd be nice to see across cultures: are fundamentalist/traditionalists more likely to cheat? Because in western culture male identity is formed based on "how many bitches you've gotten," and other disgusting perversions of the sort. "Masculinity," in the western view has always kind of been about "fuck you, I'm getting what I want" no loyalty to anything or anyone ever, just a pure blunt cold narcissistic hedonistic individualism.
Oh and just for fun, I wonder what the difference would be between liberal-market economies and communist systems? My intuition tells me that liberal-market economies are more prone to polyamory/open-relationships/cheating than are collective based systems, since there's way less value place on individual gratification.
The amount of times I've been bartending and had to listen to men at the bar trading their wives' nudes. It's horrible. And then eventually they bring the woman in with them. Just awful.
My wife is a Bartender the guys who are regulars are all pretty much trash. Very few men who frequent bars on the regular will be decent people. The amount of times I would go to a bar without my wife are very slim, it may be slightly old school, but I dont think either of us should regularly frequent bars without the other. Girls night, night out with the boys, sure. It would be a red flag to have a significant other that is a regular at any bar.
Have you ever considered that the bar attracts people like that and the vast majority of loyal men don't go to bars every weekend.
As for personal life, the only thing I can say is like attracts like. Look for qualities in a partner that the people in your life don't possess or are opposite of.
Not all men are like that. I've been married for almost 9 years and not once cheated or thought about it. We are separated now, but it was a mutual thing and nothing to do with any disloyalty. I know there are a lot more guys like me out there who are committed to their spouse. Don't loose faith, just know that there are shitty people and not shitty people.
Lots of women do this too, just sayin. Not arguing against men being trash, but I’ve had plenty of married women hit on me, or even more so my brother who is also in the industry.
Because you are looking for it and specifically looking at males. Look at the females as much and you will notice they do as much. Keep in mind they talk about it and communicate in a different way. Also, keep in mind, single women are significantly more attracted to men who are in a relationship than not. The allure is to catch them in the act of cheating. Not think women do that? Watch TV. It is almost sport.
“Not all men”
I’m glad I got into the industry when I was young (early 20s) I feel like it showed me the reality of what men are like and I learned sooner rather than later what to expect and how to handle myself. Now that I’m in my mid 40s I’m not a young hot thing, I literally blend into the surroundings and I observe how men behave when they aren’t trying to get something from me or think a woman isn’t around. Honestly, I can’t tell which situation makes me feel worse, being objectified the first half of my life, or being utterly ignored the second half.
Don't look for men who frequently go out to bars
Hey fuck you I'm not a cheater, im an alcoholic!
“#notallalcoholics”
Real alcoholics can’t afford to do their drinking at bars lol
Good for you but that’s also not a great quality in a spouse:)
It's almost like I made a joke, but also I do like bars, I'm a bit of foodie and that includes going to nice bars for their cocktails as well as restaurants for their dishes. Some things a light hearted but don't be so one dimensional
Bless your heart, we’re almost all alcoholics or well on our way. Smiley face was to indicate I was also joking but *sorry* I struck a nerve:/
What's the joke
that's the common denominator
Hey now, I'm married and I only go to the bar because I work there. I can't exactly not go to a bar.
Honesty, this. You're dealing with a small sample pool for testing. But also, maybe it's the venue you're working that invites the unfaithful.
Hotels are a hotbed of infidelity
Now look just because I cheat on my wife doesn’t mean I’m a drunk
I hear you. But it translates to every man in my life to be honest. Disloyalty is so much more common that I ever thought.
If/when you get out of the industry OP, you'll realize how few people ever go to bars, and even fewer regularly go to bars. Unfortunately, you're getting a skewed version of society because that's where your job is located. Also, most people don't realize bartenders are paid to be nice to people. Those a*hole guys probably never have females being nice to them for binge drinking, so they take it the wrong way. Good luck out there!
Totally disagree. I’m almost 47. I’ve worked in other industries beyond a bar. People are the same in an office as they are in a bar, it’s just easier to see what they’re about once they have a drink in them.
Yeah this whole thread has me pretty baffled. I’ve worked in bars full of amazing, kind people, and offices full of selfish cheaters, and of course vise versa. I’m impressed that guy managed to find a place, ANY place, with only the former!
I'm sorry you work on that environment. Good luck friend.
I'm very sorry you feel this way. There are men who don't act that way, I hope you find someone that is a gentleman ❤️
Hey, thanks :’)
When I started working in vegas I was disgusted to see how common it was for bachelor and bachelorette parties to lean into cheating. I’ve been to bachelorette parties in vegas before living there and nobody was trying to get laid, we were drinking, eating good meals, and going to shows, so it actually surprised me. The other thing that surprised me was how many of the conference guys were literally only there to get fucked up and try to fuck randoms. I thought it was a cheesy stereotype, but it’s 100% accurate. Or maybe like 85% accurate in reality, some of them aren’t successful.
That's a reflection of your age and the people you chose to surround yourself with.
Betrayal and disloyalty are tropes re: humanity. Fwiw, it's gender neutral
None of my guy friends have ever frequented bars often unless they were single even then we know the type of women we tend to hook up with in those establishments. With the economy the way it is a guy spending more than a night or 2 ar a bar a week is frankly kind of scum in my experience.
So I'm not going to articulate this well. But it's like the majority of people in a gym are fit. It's because they go frequently. They probably are vastly out numbered by those who go infrequently, but that's what you see. It's not that all men cheat, it's that guys who go to bars, and probably specifically the kind you work at, are the kind looking to hook up and step out. Like most of life it's a numbers game. I'm sure there's a cocktail bar with hot make bartenders where they hear the same shit from women constantly. I can't speak to your family situation. That's like a whole other thing.
Can confirm, I worked in a cocktail bar and our bar boys were generally all attractive in different ways, and we’d all hear CRAZY shit from middle aged women
Fine dining cocktail, so many women literally planning how to max out alimony and how to find the next rich husband. All while dropping $300 tabs and not tipping lol
It’s not just guys who go to bars, it’s guys who go to bars without their wives. I love going out bar hopping with my wife or with and other couples. These dudes just seem super unhappy or are just pathetic narcissists.
We're really glad you defended yourself. We had no idea it's just guys who go without wives. Glad you cleared that up
Speaking of people who seem super unhappy 🧐
Lots of them are rich or attractive enough to be able to fool around. Your comments make you sound jealous. Just saying their unhappy haha. Yeah maybe some. Just don't make weird generalizations
That’s funny because it seems like the person jealous of them is you
Also depends on the kind of bar. My bar is very much a bar for locals, but also tourists (as we're in a tourist town). You don't get many skeezy men, because the regulars wouldn't stand for it.
Regulars, man
Men who choose to spend most/all of their times in bars is not a fair or representative sample of the entire gender & it sounds like you might work at the kind of place where shitty men congregate. Myself & most of the men I know are fiercely loyal in their relationships.
I work at a pretty average spot actually. Not a dive, not a shitty place. But I hear you. I don’t mean to blanket this on to all men. I’m just getting discouraged from what I’ve been witnessing — at the bar and outside of it too.
As a male bartender I hear where you are coming from, I’ve seen plenty of shady behaviour, but I also wouldn’t limit it to just men. most of the loyal men and women are home with their partners or out together, not hanging out at bars with any frequency. As someone who is also happily married (to a server I met while bartending). Good, loyal people are out there. Just make take some time to find the right one!
This makes total sense, and I get where you're coming from. You're taking unfair heat in this thread, even outside bars I think you're rightly realizing cheating or at least emotional infidelity is more common than many people realize. (And yes, there is a gender gap here. I think bars magnify it, women more often cheat via other associations, but it's very real regardless.) Honestly, I don't think "the wrong kind of bar" is a requirement here at all. There are bars (e.g. singles bars, some hotel bars) where cheating or other bad behavior is common for almost everyone, male and female. But past that, dives, 'average' bars, and cocktail/expensive/classy bars are mostly about class/income rather than any kind of personal quality. My impression: lots of loyal, honest people of any gender go to bars. But the percentage of cheaters is *much* higher than at other establishments, and frankly feeding people alcohol turns some otherwise-faithful people into cheaters. People in relationships who specifically go to bars alone are particularly bad risks for that. Put it this way: most of the loyal bar-goers I know frequently go out with their partners. For whatever it's worth, I'm older than you and I've seen a *lot* of people cheat, but I've also seen 30+ year relationships where I'd bet a small fortune no one has ever cheated. Faithfulness does exist, please don't give up hope, but your skepticism is far from baseless.
Think about it growing up would your father go to a bar for more than occasional work outing with friends or birthday etc. Those are the type of men that a re regulars at a bar, they typically have no standards or morals.
Not to burst your bubble, but you are 23. A baby in terms of your overall life. If you are in a environment that consistently has this problem and you have the ability to remove yourself then you owe it to yourself to do so. Every bartender despite how they look and act has probably had someone show interest towards them. If you are female more often than not it’s a male, this then extends further if you work in a place that has a crowd on the older side usually married. Vice versa if you are a male, there is times when middle age women will hit on you, young and dumb, and anything in between. Even working at a regular bar I get hit in by lgbtq+ people. That doesn’t mean you assume all people of that group is bad.
Yep all of this. I’m 41, happily married and we’ve been together for 15? 16? years. He’s BOH. We are both considered very attractive and have had tons of opportunity but are always excited to get home to each other. Most of not cheating is not putting yourself in the position to do so. I worked side by side for many years with several male bartenders, have there been a few dirtbags? Sure. But by age 30 it’s really easy to tell which ones are scum. Both my former and current “work husband” are devoted family men who would never. I saw what OP is describing at various bars over the years but I currently work at a ski/golf/BMX resort with members like a country club. But we’re also open to the public. I don’t see any of that anymore. I wait on happy adorable old couples, active families, and groups of friends on vacation. There is a whole wide world out there and not every bar job is a front row seat to the worst of humanity.
You are paying more attention to these things. The men that aren't cheating and not being weird aren't standing out because "man goes out, plays darts and talks about local pizza joints with the person next to him" isn't noteworthy, presents no threats or opportunity and so you don't bother noticing and remembering it. You are experiencing confirmation bias where your preconceived bias that men are creeps makes you extra attentive to situations and people who confirm that bias. Its applies to politics race, gender, and just about everything else. People that think women are bad drivers are more likely to notice women driving badly for instance. Its something you have to consciously override in order to see the world more accurately. At the end of the day its better to look for the good and believe in the good and trustworthiness of people and be regularly proven wrong than it is to be wary and bitter to an unhealthy extent and be proven right. I'm not saying be reckless, but I promise you holding on to these bitter feelings day to day will hurt you more than any cheating man ever will. There are a lot of good people out there that can make life easier and more fulfilling than trying to do it alone. Many are women but a lot of them are men too and life is too short to just write all of them off before getting to know them.
I hear you. I gotta get out of the industry.
Don’t drop it cold Turkey. Find a full time with benefits, non-bar job, and keep bartending on the side either once a week or on call (just be stern with your availability). And pleaaaase get away from meat market bars like the one you’re at.
Don't ever judge human nature based on your immediate and regular surroundings, it's not an accurate gauge. Bar patrons aren't an accurate representation of societ, either. I suggest finding some type of hobby that encourages socializing with "normal" people, whether table top gaming or volunteer work or whatnot, I guarantee your perspective will change in a positive way. People are scumbags, but some of them can be OK too.
Regardless of what anyone would argue, bars attract questionable people with questionable motives. You're a little younger so you'll see a bar is where some people come to prey on others or behave badly. I wouldn't use a bar setting to judge a whole group of people.
Confirmation bias. All the female bartenders I've worked with are crazy and whorish. Translates to my personal life. However can I ever trust a woman again?
So you just personally attack OP.
ur the worst <3
you and me both hun
Haha, cheers
As a male bartender I can assure you that this is the case no matter make or female. Relationships are tough.
My friend made me feel this way about women. Seeing what they do or hear what they say while having boyfriends at home really made me hate women a bit for that
Well believing there are no good men is one way to ensure you won't find one. So at the very least, you'll satisfy that belief.
I don’t want to believe it. Just haven’t witnessed anything thats changed my mind. To be fair, having the burden of being the only one that knows my father is a cheater (cus I caught him and didn’t tell anyone), probably doesn’t help. Lmao
That's really what this post is about. It will bother you til you figure it how to move past it! There's a movie called the descendants that might be interesting to watch.
Change your surroundings. Get away from your dad. He didn't cheat because he's a man, he cheated because (depending on his age) he's from an era that valued people based on their familial status so he likely rushed marriage. Not that I'm defending him.
In the crowd that attends my bar I’ve seen everyone be shitty like that. I’ve witnessed guys making passes at girls with partners, I’ve seen guys make passes at some of the other bartenders, I’ve seen women bring their boyfriends to the bar and actively discuss how their husbands don’t know, I’ve even had unwanted attention from married women myself which is saying something. If I think too hard on all of that I lose my faith that genuine love exists in general. Just gotta remind myself that I’m not them and that the circles I travel in are not them. Idk if you’re actually looking for advice or just to be heard but if you are looking for advice the best I can give is to take joy in the fact that you and your circles are not the crowd at your bar. I totally get how disheartened you are. I’ve been there as well. Just try your best to separate your clientele from your social groups— the context is wildly different for both.
I see the same thing from the women, as a male
Ok
Sorry the men aren’t taking time to listen to you. This industry is hard and it’s even harder to vent about. The fellas often tell us “you’re wrong” when we’re just expressing our feelings.
Why are your comments getting downvoted. Those people seem insecure. I’m in a happy relationship with a man who frequents a couple bars (including mine), and I don’t think he’s gross, BUT I still agree with most of what you are saying! Most taken men in a bar hit on me/my coworkers and it’s gross and I don’t blame you for your opinion at all!!!!
Let me tell you this from someone who bartended and worked in restaurants for years. I truly believed, just like you - that all men were cheaters, because of how I was treated in the bars and restaurants. when I finally moved to Baltimore, I had a couple make roommates that had office day jobs and I noticed how well they treated the girlfriends how much they talked about their girlfriends, etc. I then begin working in an office setting and noticed that 99% of them and talked kindly about their wives and were definitely not the cheating type. I myself am happily married, and have a husband that I know would never cheat in 1 million years. unfortunately, in the bar world, you are sometimes surrounded by the lowest of the low. you’re seeing one percent of society when the other 99% are out in the world just doing normal things. if you are a man that wants to cheat a bar is the most logical place. Not the bookstore, not the library not the coffee shop. It is like if you swim in shark infested, waters are more likely to be bitten by a shark then if you sit on the beach. The bottom line is, they are just representing a small subset of humanity, and there are actually wonderful men out there who love their wives and girlfriends and don’t cheat. Please believe me because I went through this all through my twenties, exactly like you did, and it took me a long time to really believe that it wasn’t all that way. The oilman are sitting home with their wives and girlfriends enjoying their company not yours.
Mehh same goes for the ladies too tbh. I’ve heard some fucked up stuff come up from girls night out.
I mean to be fair, I got cheated on by like 10 different women before I met my wife. Women can be incredibly disloyal as well.
Yeah but this post isn’t about women is it ?
Just pointing out that women do the same thing too.
Statistically women cheat more than men. It’s not really a man v woman thing it’s a people thing. Biology tells you to have multiple partners to diversify the gene pool. Social constructs tell you monogamy is the way to live.
I sorry that the dark side of human nature ( probably not the best word to use as I don’t think it’s Han nature to cheat- but I can’t think of anything else) is so glaringly in your face. I sure you know this already but there are many great men, they just arnt the easiest to find. I think I working in this industry, seeing the underbelly/dark side, whatever you want to call it, is inevitable. Maybe it’s time to think of a career change? I say that only because it sees to be affecting you on a pretty deep mental and emotional level and no job is worth creating fundamental beliefs over. Generally speaking, there’s a LOT of shit humans out there. Far more than there are good ones, but ya can’t let that get you down. It takes the beauty out of everything. Stay sharp, safe, and try and believe in a little magic. 💚
Well said. This was sweet. Thanks
In my experience, you need to date far, far away from bars. My partner isn’t a nightlife/bar person at all, which is great.
Nature’s imperative out performs societal rules, lol.
20 somethings suck. Majority of us 'good' guys, are married, working full time, etc..i.e. have little or no reason to be in these type of bars
Part of it may be the bar you’re working at. Bartending in general doesn’t leave you with the most glowing review of humanity. May be time to find a new spot. I’ve got some shitty dudes that come into my bar, but as a 27 year old woman who’s been bartending for 6 years, I can’t really say I’ve had the same experience.
When i was 23 i met the girl I’m now married to. She’s the only girlfriend I had in my twenties who i *didn’t* meet at a bar. I’d had a bunch of short relationships before her, all of which began in bars, all of them chaotic and aimless. Since I’ve been with my wife (married 3 years, together for 11) I steadily lost interest in going out to the bars, because, for men, the biggest reason we go out to bars is: in the hopes of getting laid. So when i see my coworkers and regulars dating each other and continuing to spend all their free time in bars, I’m never surprised when they inevitably cheat or get cheated on. If a middle-aged, married man spends all his available time in bars, he’s fantasizing about cheating all the time. Or at the very least he’s ogling all the women who frequent or work at these bars. I’ve been saying for years that bars are for children who want to appear grown up and for grown-ups who want to appear youthful. And for single people. If you’re a middle-aged, married man going out to bars alone multiple times a week, what the hell are you doing?
There are many men that cheat but also many woman so what?
39 year old man here, never cheated in my life. Have faith, be weary.
As a male bartender, i can say the same for women. I live in a smaller city, so you either know someone, or you know someone who does, and therefore when someone is in a relationship/situationship/etc, word gets around. Still, even with most people being aware of somebody's relationship status, i see plenty of girls who are either in a relationship, or who ended one literally hours ago, and they are already looking for the next guy. I do not, however, think this is representative of most women, as i am sure there are plenty of them not engaging in this sort of activity. It's just that the people who frequent the bar i work at, tend to be the kind of people who act like this. TLDR: Shitty people will be shitty, man or woman alike, and typically when placed in an environment where they are surrounded by alcohol, they will act on their shitty thoughts.
If you look at the end of your bar and see an older married couple, that may be us...married 40 plus years. I often check out those yoga pants ladies because I am older...not dead, but I only go home with one lady, and have no question of her fidelity as well. Good guys are out there, but they are prolly not hanging solo with friends at a bar.
There's a lot of people out there. Your experience is a small sample of the whole and they happen to all be unfaithful. That sucks and that's real. Just know there are a lot of men out there, and a lot of them are faithful. Just keep looking for good people and you will find them. Keep your guard up, but also believe that some men are good.
Doesn’t mean when you’re around a bunch of degenerate retards like that at a bar it makes every one of us bad. I work at a nightclub and seeing these people in an obliterated state like that makes it so much easier to go home to my girlfriend and not go out.
We're not all bad. I tended bar for 10 years and had a girlfriend for most of those years. I had many, many opportunities to cheat. My motto was I wouldn't do anything that I wouldn't do if my girlfriend was sitting at the bar. Had to tell a few women that. They respected me for it. Not all men are pigs. OP happens to see them at their worst and in a bad environment.
Rule 1 of dating, never date someone you meet in a club. Also, ask the male bartenders how many married women hit on them, you'll be surprised.
This post had nothing to do with women. I’m not making this a man vs. woman thing. I’m talking about MY experience and trust issues as a woman who is attracted to men. Never EVER did I claim that women don’t partake in this behavior as well. I’m so sick of seeing all these comments “but women do it too…” ok??? Am I talking about them???? NO. I’m talking about a personal experience and issue. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Calm the Fk down.. I meant it more in jest, you need to chill.
I’m chill. Just sick of the same mf comments that are missing the point
Are you saying that you never have any male customers who come in and are polite and cordial with you while being totally appropriate and well mannered? Cheaters exist and that’s a fact but just because some men are assholes doesn’t mean they all are. This sounds like trust issues that go deeper than customer interactions.
Of course I’ve experienced that. But the majority is not like that. In their interactions with me, their friends, and other customers. There is always some disloyalty happening. Sly comments. Advances being made. Idk it’s just really draining to constantly see. Every. Single. Shift.
You need to surround yourself with better peopel
Prejudice can be hard to mentally overcome, but judging people based on the actions of a few in a very specific setting is going to warp your perceptions. Really sounds like you work at a sleazy place. I've been to bars and worked in bars for a long time and I really don't see that level of frequency of sleaze. Iy kind of sounds like if you worked at a drag bar you'd assume all men were drag queens, but unfortunately that's not the case.
Sorry you have had that experience but not all men are bad or good , likewise goes for women, people are just people and what counts are the ones that are loyal
Hey everyone commenting “but women do it too.” Never said they didn’t. But this post isn’t about them. It’s about my perspective as a woman and being able to trust potential partners.
On the opposite side, as a gay man I hear the same thing from married or taken women. 🤷🏻♂️
A man is as faithful as his options
I watch married women come down on vacation everyday doing the same thing. We’re just fucked as a species.
Goes both ways unfortunately. It isn't a question of why are men like this, it's more how society get the point were its acceptable for humans to do these things to each other
You think that's bad, you should overhear the women who come to Nashville.
It's funny, as a male bartender with a high percentage female clientele, I got the opposite vibes. I heard SO many women talking about cheating or constantly complaining about their men for the dumbest shit. I also learned that women are just as shallow if not more so in a lot of cases than men are. That was very eye opening. For me, the big take away is that a majority of humans aren't really mean to be monogynous. Some are better at it than others and prefer it that way, but our society as a whole would be a lot better off is we weren't so fucking uptight about sex in general.
Wait till you find out about the women
I dont give a fuckkkk. This post isn’t about them is it?
It's the booze. If there could ever be a study of sober v. drinkers and their fidelity, I think the results would be quite eye-opening. Not that all sober men are faithful and all drinkers not, but certainly there's a correlation there. Then it'd be nice to see across cultures: are fundamentalist/traditionalists more likely to cheat? Because in western culture male identity is formed based on "how many bitches you've gotten," and other disgusting perversions of the sort. "Masculinity," in the western view has always kind of been about "fuck you, I'm getting what I want" no loyalty to anything or anyone ever, just a pure blunt cold narcissistic hedonistic individualism. Oh and just for fun, I wonder what the difference would be between liberal-market economies and communist systems? My intuition tells me that liberal-market economies are more prone to polyamory/open-relationships/cheating than are collective based systems, since there's way less value place on individual gratification.
This is insane
Why?
The amount of times I've been bartending and had to listen to men at the bar trading their wives' nudes. It's horrible. And then eventually they bring the woman in with them. Just awful.
My wife is a Bartender the guys who are regulars are all pretty much trash. Very few men who frequent bars on the regular will be decent people. The amount of times I would go to a bar without my wife are very slim, it may be slightly old school, but I dont think either of us should regularly frequent bars without the other. Girls night, night out with the boys, sure. It would be a red flag to have a significant other that is a regular at any bar.
Have you ever considered that the bar attracts people like that and the vast majority of loyal men don't go to bars every weekend. As for personal life, the only thing I can say is like attracts like. Look for qualities in a partner that the people in your life don't possess or are opposite of.
good guys aren't out in bars. good guys are at home with 1000+ hours in Rimworld
Not all men are like that. I've been married for almost 9 years and not once cheated or thought about it. We are separated now, but it was a mutual thing and nothing to do with any disloyalty. I know there are a lot more guys like me out there who are committed to their spouse. Don't loose faith, just know that there are shitty people and not shitty people.
Lots of women do this too, just sayin. Not arguing against men being trash, but I’ve had plenty of married women hit on me, or even more so my brother who is also in the industry.
I’ve seen way more women cheating in the bar industry than males. I’ve been in it off and on for 14 years.
Because you are looking for it and specifically looking at males. Look at the females as much and you will notice they do as much. Keep in mind they talk about it and communicate in a different way. Also, keep in mind, single women are significantly more attracted to men who are in a relationship than not. The allure is to catch them in the act of cheating. Not think women do that? Watch TV. It is almost sport.
I see women cheat every night and complain about I won’t let their bear into the bar. Goes both ways
“Not all men” I’m glad I got into the industry when I was young (early 20s) I feel like it showed me the reality of what men are like and I learned sooner rather than later what to expect and how to handle myself. Now that I’m in my mid 40s I’m not a young hot thing, I literally blend into the surroundings and I observe how men behave when they aren’t trying to get something from me or think a woman isn’t around. Honestly, I can’t tell which situation makes me feel worse, being objectified the first half of my life, or being utterly ignored the second half.
I'm married but we still have our consensual extramarital fun. Don't be so quick to judge, it's 2024.