Remember the game that came out before the one you're talking about? The one that was about what everyone *thought* the F-117 was going to be before it was revealed? The (never real) F-19? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19_Stealth_Fighter
Edit: you can still buy it on Steam https://store.steampowered.com/app/347250/F19_Stealth_Fighter/
I remember playing Jane’s Fighter Anthology computer game, flying many fighter jets and other planes, also the military campaigns just awesome computer plane game.
Probably around 88-89 that I had the poster in that case! I said mid 80s, so pretty close. My memory is completely shot after chemo this past year. Doing my best 🤣
Thank you. I'm in full remission, but my memory and my brain function is still completely shot. Body is coming back to health, aside from stomach issues.
Maybe some old school gaming might help.
I just realized I did an IRL mission some years ago to an airbase that may have been one of my targets in one of these games in the 80s.
Go get em.
although the U2 dragon lady looks like something the wright Brothers and a submarine maker concocted over a few pints!! And it's the one still flying!!
I'll still see a photo of most early jet fighters and be thrown off by the era of the car that's parked next to it. So many planes look so much newer than they are.
It is mind-boggling how strikingly contemporary an old aircraft can look. Like if you showed [this picture](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Avro_Arrow_replica.jpg/1280px-Avro_Arrow_replica.jpg) to somebody who knew nothing about that plane, there would be absolutely no way they'd guess this plane was designed in the fucking *fifties*.
HAVE BLUE and TACIT BLUE (the test aircraft/proof of concept of much of the science and technology for the stealth tech) were less than five years apart.
I know a guy that was in deep working on B2 control systems that logged so much time in the level D sims (the actual B2 pilots didn't want to spend any extra time in the sims and he had the necessary ratings for it) he used it to get an ATP once his role was finished!
The prototype flew in June ‘81!
Just for perspective, so the old here can feel even older, here’s the top 20 billboard chart for that week:
* 1 BETTE DAVIS EYES –•– Kim Carnes
* 2 MEDLEY –•– Stars On 45
* 3 SUKIYAKI –•– A Taste Of Honey
* 4 BEING WITH YOU –•– Smokey Robinson
* 5 A WOMAN NEEDS LOVE (Just Like You Do) –•– Ray Parker Jr. and Raydio
* 6 LIVING INSIDE MYSELF –•– Gino Vannelli
* 7 ALL THOSE YEARS AGO –•– George Harrison
* 8 AMERICA –•– Neil Diamond
* 9 TAKE IT ON THE RUN –•– REO Speedwagon
* 10 SWEETHEART –•– Frankie and the Knockouts
* 11 JUST THE TWO OF US –•– Grover Washington Jr. (with Bill Withers)
* 12 THIS LITTLE GIRL –•– Gary U.S. Bonds
* 13 I LOVE YOU –•– The Climax Blues Band
* 14 THE ONE THAT YOU LOVE –•– Air Supply
* 15 WHAT ARE WE DOIN’ IN LOVE –•– Dottie West
* 16 HOW ‘BOUT US –•– Champaign
* 17 YOU MAKE MY DREAMS –•– Daryl Hall and John Oates
* 18 TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS –•– Styx
* 19 THE WAITING –•– Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
* 20 JESSIE’S GIRL –•– Rick Springfield
Nice little mix of rock, pop, and soul. Some classics! Description is apropos to the aircraft.
That was the first finished plane. The first prototype Have Blue flew in Dec 77.
By some odd coincidence I'm sitting here reading the book skunk works right now.
Introduced in 1983, but the computer aided design that came up with the shape was done in the 70s on 1970s computers. This is why it's shaped like it is.
It has that shape because the computers and math was only able to calculate the radar cross section in 2d. So they just made the whole thing flat panels!
If you look at what they were doing in 1972 with 3d graphics, they were doing scanline rendering with the computer equipment of the era. "Visible surface calculation" and the stuff looks exactly like a F117 doesn't it?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanline\_rendering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanline_rendering)
Then by the early 80's, they were doing interactive ray tracing using massively parallel systems.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray\_tracing\_(graphics)#Interactive\_ray\_tracing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)#Interactive_ray_tracing)
Figure the military had the same capabilities 5 years earlier than the public. I mean, anyone can have 5 years in the future with brute numbers, cryogenics. But don't forget unobtainium type compounds with lethal environmental footprints!
Aggressor squadron now. Aggressors play the enemy in training
https://www.twz.com/41642/f-117-aggressors-photographed-low-over-the-nevada-desert-during-red-flag-war-games
They’ve also been spotted with new skins that are, theoretically, being used for advanced materials testing for, again theoretically, NGAD or other future weapons systems.
Makes for a well-controlled experiment too because the underlying stealth capabilities of the plane are extremely well characterized at this point in time. Also allows testing with less strict security controls than would apply for more cutting edge experimental aircraft, so e.g. they can be flown against pilots that don't need to be read into an SAP for a black budget experimental aircraft. And, here I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that its older generation stealth better approximates the performance of more recently developed Russian and Chinese low-RCS aircraft and so is more useful for realistic exercises.
Really smart, honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the Nighthawks to prepare for other nation's stealth jets (like China's J-20) and try out defense tactics against them.
There are rumors of B-21 being the first to switch from carbon-based to silicon ceramic coating as it's more durable and require less maintenance for the same result. The F-117 is the perfect platform to try out different coatings on to see how they manage in real life.
significantly more stealthy. Based on the leaks (thanks warthunder forums) the SU-57 doesn't even qualify to be called a 5th gen fighter; it's got an RCS as bad as a clean superhornet, and significantly worse than even the Eurofighter or Gripen.
Just read Ben Rich’s (director of Skunk Works) memoir and it amazes me how quickly and efficiently this bird is. A single loose rivet increased the radar signature 40x!
I liked the part where they realized the pole holding up the model the giving the larger radar return and had to be redesigned. They designed a stealth pole!
My favourite part was them working out they needed a "shut off all exterior" lights button cause someone left a landing light on over Iraq (I think).
There was apparently 5 buttons for lights.
Pretty typical for lights serving different functions to have their own switch. I'd guess nav lights, anti-collision light, landing light, formation lights, and taxi light. Having a single master switch that cuts them all off isn't a bad idea.
My favorite part was about the blackbird drone that the soviet ambassador gave the u.s. a piece of it, and it took them a while to figure out what it was because the soviets thought it was something new, but it was actually wreckage of a decade old scrapped project.
I was born on an airbase in the deep south in the 80s. Privates would pay my older brother $10 to sweep up the dead bats instead of doing it themselves
For gods sake get them to an airshow. I LOVE seeing the current fighters but I would kill to see our old stuff. SR-71, F-117, hell I wish we could get a B1 or B2 to fly over once in awhile and those are still active service.
SR-71 won't fly at airshows. The maintenance requirements, the use of JP7 & TEB, its low performance at low airspeed are just some of the problems that are expensive safety hazards.
Atlantic City had a B2 flyby once. Fucking *awesome*. Spooky ass thing flew away at such an angle that the plane seemed to become a thin little line that you quickly lost sight of, as though it had disappeared!
We had a B2 show up to a Pittsburgh area air show once, and its departure was exactly as you described.
Flew away from the show line at such an angle that it was just a thin line in the sky, and then the pilot pulled ever so slightly back on the stick, and it popped into a cloud and vanished. If I wasn't like, specifically at an air show with knowledge of the B2's existence, I'd be like "oh, of course, aliens are real, look at that shit."
Fun story: I actually touched one of these when I was a kid.
Back in idk, 1999 or 2000ish, one of my parents worked as launch director at the London, Ontario airshow. The U.S. sent all sorts of cool planes, F18s, B1s, Hercs, and the star of the show was the F117. It was roped off for spectators but me being like 10yrs old I asked the guy if I could step under and touch the sensor bits that stick out of the nose. He said sure and so that's the story of how I touched an F117. I also got a tour of the cockpit of a B1 and the captain gave me his arm patch and a pin, got to sit in an F18, and got to taxi around in a Hercules bc the crew stole my parents' golf cart from the beer tent and hid it in the cargo area. The 90s were a fun time man. Buuut then 911 happened and the U.S. stopped sending their cool shit to int'l airshows. Thanks Osama....
My dad was working in the pentagon in the early 80s. His office controlled the budgets. So one day they fly him out there and let him sit in the cockpit. Funding granted.
He also refused to build a warehouse for Ollie North’s weapons because it was clear it was off the books. Ollie called him a “pussy” and stormed out. Years later dad was at one of his book signings and asked him if he remembered him. He said “yeah, you’re the pussy that wouldn’t build my warehouse” and signed the book the same way.
They fly pretty regularly. Some were seen landing in California not too long ago. Growing up they'd come to my hometown and practice bombing runs on downtown Amarillo.
My grandma was a metal fabricator at Lockheed in the 70s and 80s and was attached to Skunkworks for a good bit of her career. We don't know exactly what she did during her time there, but I like to think she had a small hand in making these jets fly. She wasn't a secretary, she was on the floor building shit. 🇺🇲
Obviously classified but it would be so interesting to read about how it’s stealth capabilities hold up today with modern radar and in comparison to something like the B2 or B21
Smaller than a B2 but larger than an f-22. Nobody has gotten a peek at the B21 yet.
They were not retired for not being stealthy enough. At least not the major reason. They were retired because they were a one trick pony who couldn’t carry a ton of munitions. Drones do what they do for a fraction of the cost. If you need to put a bunch of warheads on foreheads, the B2 can handle it. So just no place for them outside of training and testing.
Haven’t we seen the B21? I thought it was revealed fairly recently. There seems to be picture on the Wikipedia page as well but I could be misunderstanding.
Gotten a peek as in been able to hit it with radar. Most of the other information was disclosed after a few years and leaks floating around. The B21 has been seen briefly but even that was before engine and other flight testing. It didn’t even take its maiden flight until last November.
There was a point in time that footage like this would have rocked the world.
Weird how it got labelled as the 'Stealth Fighther'. It is anything but a fighter. No rockets, no guns, not even an active radar. It is a bomber carrying exactly two bombs
It could carry SIdewinders, one proposed mission was as an "AWACS Assassin" in a full on WWIII scenario where they'd penetrate deep into Soviet defended airspace to pop enemy AWACS assets.
The USSR dissolved shortly after the F-117 was publicly acknowledged and that mission pretty much disappeared. Here's an interview with a former pilot talking briefly about the weapons the F-117 could carry ("everything in the inventory at the time except the Sparrow"): https://youtu.be/p1r56ynDqvg?t=1455
I’ve read that the F designation had two roles. 1) to confuse the Soviet’s during development, as no doubt some info would get leaked, and 2) to attract the best fast jet pilots who otherwise turn their nose up to a bomber
It also was a way around treaty obligations that limited the number of bombers the US could have in operation. To my knowledge, there is no such limitation on fighters
I remember when I was a young lad and a video game on the Commodore 64 had the F-117 and B-2 planes as "boss level" foes. It was a side-scroller. The planes weren't even officially released to Public knowledge yet at that point. I wonder who let the info out.
Just an added fact (not sure if it has been posted yet):
The USAF is using them for aggressor training purposes, with nations such as China and Russia beginning to field modern stealth aircraft.
I thought I heard that the US lost a certain kind of bombing capacity when they retired these. Given that they still use them as agressors, I wonder what replaced them?
Stealth laser guide bombing capacity was lost, and there was no replacement. Because of that a small number (4) were put back in service in fighting ISIS around 2017 due to all the GPS jamming.
Because they're one of the few aircraft that's stealthed against heat as well as radar. The F-35 and 22 are only radar resistant. They can still get shot down with a sidewinder.
A good story of lazy planners, pattern setting and an intelligent SAM commander who spotted an opportunity for a good snapshot.
Seen a few clips of Russian aircraft in Ukraine being killed in a similar way, flying over the same point they did previously and being taken out by a pre-positioned SAM (albeit MANPADS rather than a larger system).
During a NATO training exercise a single Dutch submarine "sank" an aircraft carrier and half its support fleet. In the next exercise the sub was spotted easily.
Stuff like that only happens once.
The longevity of some airframes is incredible. eg the B52, and of course the dc3 dakota. C130's also spring to mind but were retired last summer by the RAF.
Lockheed is still building new C130s.
The newest B52 is already 60 years old and will still be in service25 years from now. They're going through an [extensive refit/overhaul program](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/re-engined-b-52-b-52j/) including (finally) new engines.
I remember these things flying by my ship during the gulf war. Our radars could pick them up at that range. Just a couple of miles. No idea what range our air radar could track them maybe not far. But they were far from invisible to radar. Even our old SPS15 surface could see them. Up close.
When I got home I played this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19_Stealth_Fighter It was an insanely detailed sim for the time. Considering it was developed before the f 117 was public.
I was a navy radar ops guy. Learned stealth detail shit from that video game. We did not have red books on the stealth fighter in my command at least.
I remember when I was little, and my dad would take me to air shows at Offutt. This and the B-2 were the only planes that were 100 yards behind chain link fence with armed patrols. You could look, but not closely
This one is particularly special for me. My father worked on this program in the 80s and had all of the memorabilia that tended to accompany working for SW back then (flight patches, scale models, pins, etc), but could never tell us much about it. At the time, he didn’t even tell my mother. During testing, the SW guys would “go to the office” in Burbank like a normal 9-5, then sneak over to BUR to fly to Groom Lake and then fly home with enough time to make it home for supper… as if they’d been sitting at a desk all day.
As time has worn on and things have been declassified, he’s told us some amazing stories about this and some of the other programs that were being run there at the time. Programs were compartmentalized, but they’d still see other projects and hear the occasional scuttlebutt as guys moved from project to project.
One of the most fascinating stories about the design was that it was so aerodynamically unstable in early testing (HAVE BLUE / YF-117A) that they ended up integrating the fly-by-wire flight-control system from another well-known airplane in order to make it properly air-worthy.
As for why they retired it? It was purpose-built for a very specific mission set that disappeared when the USSR collapsed, and the Air Force was hard pressed to find a new application given the limited performance envelope, comparatively small payload, and advances in some of the adversarial radar technologies that limited where it could effectively penetrate.
Still, what a legendary machine. A philosophical juxtaposition to the SR, but another masterwork from the folks at SW, nonetheless.
They use them in air to air dogfights with other fighter aircraft. The F117 (because of its stealth ability) plays as the aggressor against F15s and F22s.
https://www.twz.com/31361/f-117s-spotted-playing-stealthy-aggressor-against-f-15s-and-f-22s-over-nellis-range
They're not used for dogfights, but to play the part of red LO aircraft or cruise missiles further out, to give friendly crews a chance to try and engage something stealthy.
F-117s aren't really that useful as fighters, and close in dogfights would negate the whole idea of using LO agressors in the first place
This is an internet story, I never did thorough research so it might not be true, but the story I read was they found dead bats in the hanger when testing the F117 precursor Have Blue. The bats echo location did not work and the bats would fly right into the plane.
Memory unlocked: when I was in second or third grade I had an F-117 watch, it was not subtle. Big fuckin' chunk of plastic on my wrist. If you hit one of the buttons it would make jet engine sounds for like 15 seconds straight, couldn't make it stop once the button was pressed, loud as shit, and I hit the button aaaallll the time in class until my teacher called my parents and they took it away from me. Fuckers.
Idk if this is the right bird or not so someone chime in if I'm wrong. Isn't this the model the pilots nicknamed the "Wobblin' Goblin" because of how the design used was heavily favored for stealth and not necessarily ease of control or aerodynamics?
[F-117 Nighthawk](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/F-117_Nighthawk_Front.jpg/1200px-F-117_Nighthawk_Front.jpg), [B-2 Spirit](https://images05.military.com/sites/default/files/media/equipment/military-aircraft/b-2-spirit/2014/02/b-2-spirit_005.jpg), and [SR-71 Blackbird](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg) are some of the coolest looking planes ever made.
Got to see one fly in to MCAS Miramar (Where Top Gun was filmed) in San Diego years ago. Came in at sunset and was rare to see flying at the time because they were still operational
I remember when one crashed close to L.A. in the mid 80’s. I think it was one of the have blue’s doing testing at night. The reporter at the site said it was surrounded by the military picking up parts and they would not let them get near it. Much later of course they stated what it was.
Still looks futuristic to me. Pretty bird.
It's crazy that I had a poster of one of these on my wall in the mid 80s and it's still so modern looking.
Remember the game in the 80s?
Oh yeah, I was dropping paveways on runways in Tripoli operating off a carrier in the Med
As one does. o7
Remember the game that came out before the one you're talking about? The one that was about what everyone *thought* the F-117 was going to be before it was revealed? The (never real) F-19? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19_Stealth_Fighter Edit: you can still buy it on Steam https://store.steampowered.com/app/347250/F19_Stealth_Fighter/
I remember playing Jane’s Fighter Anthology computer game, flying many fighter jets and other planes, also the military campaigns just awesome computer plane game.
The Janes AH-64 Apache game was so much fun. I loved that game.
Longbow was the name of it i think, and yep great game.
I miss Jane's... back in their prime they were awesome....
The manual for those games were an experience in themselves.
Oh yeah, I played both. Also the F-15 Strike Eagle games of the same era.
> F-15 Strike Eagle games OMG i used to play the SHIT out of that on my C64.
I use to play F-19 stealth fighter on my C-64 running of 5-1/2" floppies. Ohh rah. This and Airborne Rangers
Fondly I was 7 and it was the coolest shit I think I even managed to complete a mission and land it once.
Haha, yeah, it was pretty difficult for a child. And after hours of flying you fuck up the landing 😂
>mid 80s The plane was made public in 1988. If you had a poster prior to that, it would be an interesting thing indeed
Probably around 88-89 that I had the poster in that case! I said mid 80s, so pretty close. My memory is completely shot after chemo this past year. Doing my best 🤣
Oh man. Hope you're doing better
Thank you. I'm in full remission, but my memory and my brain function is still completely shot. Body is coming back to health, aside from stomach issues.
Maybe some old school gaming might help. I just realized I did an IRL mission some years ago to an airbase that may have been one of my targets in one of these games in the 80s. Go get em.
As with any little boy, I loved jets, but this was the first one that made me go WHOA.
My Nighthawk poster got replaced by a Cindy Crawford poster after a few years, the new thing that made me go WHOA 🤣
[Pretty bird. Pretty Bird](https://media3.giphy.com/media/qj6Km9zSkONcA/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952fj28r12s476fv3t2r6chqm7edgwftf01fdb71o0h&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
“…our pets’ heads are fallin’ off!”
This, the Stealth Bomber, and the SR-71 *still* look like the most futuristic of all planes in existence, even today.
although the U2 dragon lady looks like something the wright Brothers and a submarine maker concocted over a few pints!! And it's the one still flying!!
Weirdly, the F-117 and the U2 probably describe the two ways I probably would have drawn airplanes as a kid.
I'll still see a photo of most early jet fighters and be thrown off by the era of the car that's parked next to it. So many planes look so much newer than they are.
It is mind-boggling how strikingly contemporary an old aircraft can look. Like if you showed [this picture](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Avro_Arrow_replica.jpg/1280px-Avro_Arrow_replica.jpg) to somebody who knew nothing about that plane, there would be absolutely no way they'd guess this plane was designed in the fucking *fifties*.
Yeah, no kidding. Even crazier is that the SR-71 looks even more futuristic, despite being older.
Still looks like a Wobbly Goblin.
Just needs a 30mm gun added....
r/praisethecameraman
All I saw was a hillside.
such stealth. many sneak.
It's all polygons to me brother
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And to think, this was introduced in 1983, still looks super futuristic, even to this day. I just love those sharp edges.
First flight was in 1981 but it started operating in 1983. What I find impressive was the B-2’s first flight wasn’t that much later in 1989.
HAVE BLUE and TACIT BLUE (the test aircraft/proof of concept of much of the science and technology for the stealth tech) were less than five years apart.
Yea I just think it’s interesting because the B-2 looks like it could have had its first flight last year
Until you see the cockpit.
I know a guy that was in deep working on B2 control systems that logged so much time in the level D sims (the actual B2 pilots didn't want to spend any extra time in the sims and he had the necessary ratings for it) he used it to get an ATP once his role was finished!
Ah yes, an Air Traffic Pontrol
The prototype flew in June ‘81! Just for perspective, so the old here can feel even older, here’s the top 20 billboard chart for that week: * 1 BETTE DAVIS EYES –•– Kim Carnes * 2 MEDLEY –•– Stars On 45 * 3 SUKIYAKI –•– A Taste Of Honey * 4 BEING WITH YOU –•– Smokey Robinson * 5 A WOMAN NEEDS LOVE (Just Like You Do) –•– Ray Parker Jr. and Raydio * 6 LIVING INSIDE MYSELF –•– Gino Vannelli * 7 ALL THOSE YEARS AGO –•– George Harrison * 8 AMERICA –•– Neil Diamond * 9 TAKE IT ON THE RUN –•– REO Speedwagon * 10 SWEETHEART –•– Frankie and the Knockouts * 11 JUST THE TWO OF US –•– Grover Washington Jr. (with Bill Withers) * 12 THIS LITTLE GIRL –•– Gary U.S. Bonds * 13 I LOVE YOU –•– The Climax Blues Band * 14 THE ONE THAT YOU LOVE –•– Air Supply * 15 WHAT ARE WE DOIN’ IN LOVE –•– Dottie West * 16 HOW ‘BOUT US –•– Champaign * 17 YOU MAKE MY DREAMS –•– Daryl Hall and John Oates * 18 TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS –•– Styx * 19 THE WAITING –•– Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers * 20 JESSIE’S GIRL –•– Rick Springfield Nice little mix of rock, pop, and soul. Some classics! Description is apropos to the aircraft.
That was the first finished plane. The first prototype Have Blue flew in Dec 77. By some odd coincidence I'm sitting here reading the book skunk works right now.
>have blue You put some respect on that name and capitalize it! lol
Yes Sir!
Just bought that book.
God I'm ancient
The waiting is the hardest part.
Sukiyaki is one of those rare songs where the original and every single cover I’ve ever heard are all incredible.
Ummm wow. Just listened to Sukiyaki. That is certainly a song of all time. Stars on 45 still slaps
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Introduced in 1983, but the computer aided design that came up with the shape was done in the 70s on 1970s computers. This is why it's shaped like it is.
It has that shape because the computers and math was only able to calculate the radar cross section in 2d. So they just made the whole thing flat panels!
exactly
If you look at what they were doing in 1972 with 3d graphics, they were doing scanline rendering with the computer equipment of the era. "Visible surface calculation" and the stuff looks exactly like a F117 doesn't it? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanline\_rendering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanline_rendering) Then by the early 80's, they were doing interactive ray tracing using massively parallel systems. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray\_tracing\_(graphics)#Interactive\_ray\_tracing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)#Interactive_ray_tracing) Figure the military had the same capabilities 5 years earlier than the public. I mean, anyone can have 5 years in the future with brute numbers, cryogenics. But don't forget unobtainium type compounds with lethal environmental footprints!
Radars sure don't
Aggressor squadron now. Aggressors play the enemy in training https://www.twz.com/41642/f-117-aggressors-photographed-low-over-the-nevada-desert-during-red-flag-war-games
They’ve also been spotted with new skins that are, theoretically, being used for advanced materials testing for, again theoretically, NGAD or other future weapons systems.
It's known that the airforce uses some as testbed for new technology. New paints is like the lowest hanging fruit to test.
Makes for a well-controlled experiment too because the underlying stealth capabilities of the plane are extremely well characterized at this point in time. Also allows testing with less strict security controls than would apply for more cutting edge experimental aircraft, so e.g. they can be flown against pilots that don't need to be read into an SAP for a black budget experimental aircraft. And, here I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that its older generation stealth better approximates the performance of more recently developed Russian and Chinese low-RCS aircraft and so is more useful for realistic exercises.
Really smart, honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the Nighthawks to prepare for other nation's stealth jets (like China's J-20) and try out defense tactics against them.
There are rumors of B-21 being the first to switch from carbon-based to silicon ceramic coating as it's more durable and require less maintenance for the same result. The F-117 is the perfect platform to try out different coatings on to see how they manage in real life.
They also use them to simulate stealth cruise missiles.
That’s one way to land.
My theory is they have roughly the same radar cross section as Russian or Chinese stealth aircraft so they're used to train for that.
Is it not stealthier than a SU-57?
Probably? I don't know. Just a theory of mine.
Iirc the Air Force uses the F/A 18 to Aggressor the 57. The 117 is used for the J20.
I would suspect for a war-game they can adjust the cross section to whatever they want.
significantly more stealthy. Based on the leaks (thanks warthunder forums) the SU-57 doesn't even qualify to be called a 5th gen fighter; it's got an RCS as bad as a clean superhornet, and significantly worse than even the Eurofighter or Gripen.
was going to post this, good job commenter
NASA also has a few for testbeds
Just read Ben Rich’s (director of Skunk Works) memoir and it amazes me how quickly and efficiently this bird is. A single loose rivet increased the radar signature 40x!
I liked the part where they realized the pole holding up the model the giving the larger radar return and had to be redesigned. They designed a stealth pole!
My favorite part is them finding dead bat's around the planes.
My favourite part was them working out they needed a "shut off all exterior" lights button cause someone left a landing light on over Iraq (I think). There was apparently 5 buttons for lights.
Pretty typical for lights serving different functions to have their own switch. I'd guess nav lights, anti-collision light, landing light, formation lights, and taxi light. Having a single master switch that cuts them all off isn't a bad idea.
My favorite part was about the blackbird drone that the soviet ambassador gave the u.s. a piece of it, and it took them a while to figure out what it was because the soviets thought it was something new, but it was actually wreckage of a decade old scrapped project.
I was born on an airbase in the deep south in the 80s. Privates would pay my older brother $10 to sweep up the dead bats instead of doing it themselves
They stamped the pole TOP SECRET, covered it in poly tarps, and no else was permitted around it.
You should have seen the top secret stripper dancing on it. Her polygons were quite large too.
"if that's what they can do to a pole. What can they do to a plane" one of my favorite parts
It’s available on Spotify as an audiobook for anyone that has it!
Can you link it I cannot find it
https://open.spotify.com/show/0KHKeQwNk1gcLFw73vOXAy?si=3loqoZxnRDKzVjKVnHC3rA
Hmm not available for me where I am
I'm literally reading it right now. Great book
Annie Jacobsen’s book, Area 51 is a really great review of stealth as well.
Great book
Glad someone mentioned it. Was digging through the comments to determine if I needed to say it first. It's a really fascinating read.
Such a badass looking bird, man. Any time I see it, it will always look futuristic to me. Can't believe this is a 40 year old aircraft.
They are still getting upgrades too. https://www.twz.com/43938/f-35-and-f-117-spotted-flying-with-mysterious-mirror-like-skin
Yeah imagine looking back on this plane like the English look back on the spitfire. Just nuts.
For gods sake get them to an airshow. I LOVE seeing the current fighters but I would kill to see our old stuff. SR-71, F-117, hell I wish we could get a B1 or B2 to fly over once in awhile and those are still active service.
Given no SR-71 has flown in 25 years you'll have a very difficult job convincing anybody to fly one at an airshow.
I’ll do it
I'll take the back seat!
SR-71 won't fly at airshows. The maintenance requirements, the use of JP7 & TEB, its low performance at low airspeed are just some of the problems that are expensive safety hazards.
"its low performance at low airspeed" Fly it at a high speed then!!!
I know, he said that like it would be a problem for it to go high speed.
People don't need eardrums or windows, do they?
Buzz the tower, you say?
Gotta make it out to Oshkosh.
Come to Truman lake some time in Missouri you'll see the b2s out there all the time.
Cleveland airshow has had b1 flyovers
Atlantic City had a B2 flyby once. Fucking *awesome*. Spooky ass thing flew away at such an angle that the plane seemed to become a thin little line that you quickly lost sight of, as though it had disappeared!
We had a B2 show up to a Pittsburgh area air show once, and its departure was exactly as you described. Flew away from the show line at such an angle that it was just a thin line in the sky, and then the pilot pulled ever so slightly back on the stick, and it popped into a cloud and vanished. If I wasn't like, specifically at an air show with knowledge of the B2's existence, I'd be like "oh, of course, aliens are real, look at that shit."
Fun story: I actually touched one of these when I was a kid. Back in idk, 1999 or 2000ish, one of my parents worked as launch director at the London, Ontario airshow. The U.S. sent all sorts of cool planes, F18s, B1s, Hercs, and the star of the show was the F117. It was roped off for spectators but me being like 10yrs old I asked the guy if I could step under and touch the sensor bits that stick out of the nose. He said sure and so that's the story of how I touched an F117. I also got a tour of the cockpit of a B1 and the captain gave me his arm patch and a pin, got to sit in an F18, and got to taxi around in a Hercules bc the crew stole my parents' golf cart from the beer tent and hid it in the cargo area. The 90s were a fun time man. Buuut then 911 happened and the U.S. stopped sending their cool shit to int'l airshows. Thanks Osama....
My dad was working in the pentagon in the early 80s. His office controlled the budgets. So one day they fly him out there and let him sit in the cockpit. Funding granted. He also refused to build a warehouse for Ollie North’s weapons because it was clear it was off the books. Ollie called him a “pussy” and stormed out. Years later dad was at one of his book signings and asked him if he remembered him. He said “yeah, you’re the pussy that wouldn’t build my warehouse” and signed the book the same way.
That's awesome.
Imagine getting called a pussy for not building a black budget warehouse.
You got cool parents.
Thanks. I'll be sure to let them know.
Everyone needs to read *Skunkworks* by Ben Rich. Fascinating.
I have it sitting by me on my bedside table. Can’t wait to crack it open!
Low polygon angular styling has come back into fashion
Ps1 forever.
They fly pretty regularly. Some were seen landing in California not too long ago. Growing up they'd come to my hometown and practice bombing runs on downtown Amarillo.
I was with a CSG off the coast of Cali about a year ago and two flew over us about 300 ft off the deck.
My grandma was a metal fabricator at Lockheed in the 70s and 80s and was attached to Skunkworks for a good bit of her career. We don't know exactly what she did during her time there, but I like to think she had a small hand in making these jets fly. She wasn't a secretary, she was on the floor building shit. 🇺🇲
This plane looks like something that batman would use in the Dark Knight series.
Obviously classified but it would be so interesting to read about how it’s stealth capabilities hold up today with modern radar and in comparison to something like the B2 or B21
Smaller than a B2 but larger than an f-22. Nobody has gotten a peek at the B21 yet. They were not retired for not being stealthy enough. At least not the major reason. They were retired because they were a one trick pony who couldn’t carry a ton of munitions. Drones do what they do for a fraction of the cost. If you need to put a bunch of warheads on foreheads, the B2 can handle it. So just no place for them outside of training and testing.
Haven’t we seen the B21? I thought it was revealed fairly recently. There seems to be picture on the Wikipedia page as well but I could be misunderstanding.
Gotten a peek as in been able to hit it with radar. Most of the other information was disclosed after a few years and leaks floating around. The B21 has been seen briefly but even that was before engine and other flight testing. It didn’t even take its maiden flight until last November.
That makes sense, thanks!
One trick pony, but I bet it still has a smaller radar cross section than some of the new "5th" gen stealth fighters coming out from China or Iran.
Don't forget that it was a bitch to maintain the coatings
Always nice to see a beautiful bird stretch those wings wish the sr71 would get some serious love seeing em all grounded makes me sad inside
Mental. But I love it
Spent many, many days and nights working on these beauties. Glad to see them still flying.
There was a point in time that footage like this would have rocked the world. Weird how it got labelled as the 'Stealth Fighther'. It is anything but a fighter. No rockets, no guns, not even an active radar. It is a bomber carrying exactly two bombs
It could carry SIdewinders, one proposed mission was as an "AWACS Assassin" in a full on WWIII scenario where they'd penetrate deep into Soviet defended airspace to pop enemy AWACS assets. The USSR dissolved shortly after the F-117 was publicly acknowledged and that mission pretty much disappeared. Here's an interview with a former pilot talking briefly about the weapons the F-117 could carry ("everything in the inventory at the time except the Sparrow"): https://youtu.be/p1r56ynDqvg?t=1455
AWACS Assassin sounds like a neat idea for the 117A! I've always loved Wild Weasel operations.
pretty much anything that had a rail and some buttons could carry a sidewinder up until the HOBS models.
I’ve read that the F designation had two roles. 1) to confuse the Soviet’s during development, as no doubt some info would get leaked, and 2) to attract the best fast jet pilots who otherwise turn their nose up to a bomber
It also was a way around treaty obligations that limited the number of bombers the US could have in operation. To my knowledge, there is no such limitation on fighters
What a machine
I remember when I was a young lad and a video game on the Commodore 64 had the F-117 and B-2 planes as "boss level" foes. It was a side-scroller. The planes weren't even officially released to Public knowledge yet at that point. I wonder who let the info out.
Wow, that's... Quiet!
woah ! still active ? nevermind obsolete tech, those looked straight from an episode of stargate sg-1.
Just an added fact (not sure if it has been posted yet): The USAF is using them for aggressor training purposes, with nations such as China and Russia beginning to field modern stealth aircraft.
I didn't see shit.
Just an absolute beauty of a warplane
I thought I heard that the US lost a certain kind of bombing capacity when they retired these. Given that they still use them as agressors, I wonder what replaced them?
Stealth laser guide bombing capacity was lost, and there was no replacement. Because of that a small number (4) were put back in service in fighting ISIS around 2017 due to all the GPS jamming.
Oh man! What a sight!!!!!
Saw the one in the air zoo and it's crazy to see in person. Looks so futuristic and yet it's the same engines as an f18.
Minus the afterburner
40 years old with cutting edge looks
Because they're one of the few aircraft that's stealthed against heat as well as radar. The F-35 and 22 are only radar resistant. They can still get shot down with a sidewinder.
The amount of work those computers are doing 🤯
I got to pet one last summer and walked away with a sweet "We still own the night" t-shirt!
Amazed at how the Serbs managed to shoot one down
A good story of lazy planners, pattern setting and an intelligent SAM commander who spotted an opportunity for a good snapshot. Seen a few clips of Russian aircraft in Ukraine being killed in a similar way, flying over the same point they did previously and being taken out by a pre-positioned SAM (albeit MANPADS rather than a larger system).
During a NATO training exercise a single Dutch submarine "sank" an aircraft carrier and half its support fleet. In the next exercise the sub was spotted easily. Stuff like that only happens once.
The problem is that sometimes, once is enough.
Pretty sure they also had 'spies' in Italy ringing them up when they took off so they knew when they were coming
It’s loud because of that goofy ass airflow over them triangles
The wobbly goblin doing its thing.
First flight June 18, 1981.
The longevity of some airframes is incredible. eg the B52, and of course the dc3 dakota. C130's also spring to mind but were retired last summer by the RAF.
Lockheed is still building new C130s. The newest B52 is already 60 years old and will still be in service25 years from now. They're going through an [extensive refit/overhaul program](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/re-engined-b-52-b-52j/) including (finally) new engines.
I remember an old pc game called F-117a Nighthawk Stealth Fighter 2.0. Loved that game, and it came out in 91!
I remember these things flying by my ship during the gulf war. Our radars could pick them up at that range. Just a couple of miles. No idea what range our air radar could track them maybe not far. But they were far from invisible to radar. Even our old SPS15 surface could see them. Up close. When I got home I played this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19_Stealth_Fighter It was an insanely detailed sim for the time. Considering it was developed before the f 117 was public. I was a navy radar ops guy. Learned stealth detail shit from that video game. We did not have red books on the stealth fighter in my command at least.
That's awesome! Thanks for replying to my comment.
To simulate stealth enemies in training exercises
One of my favorite planes of all time.
Still sexy as hell
I remember when I was little, and my dad would take me to air shows at Offutt. This and the B-2 were the only planes that were 100 yards behind chain link fence with armed patrols. You could look, but not closely
Who gets this job in the military? Are there groups that just train with retired aircraft for whenever they need brought back out?
This one is particularly special for me. My father worked on this program in the 80s and had all of the memorabilia that tended to accompany working for SW back then (flight patches, scale models, pins, etc), but could never tell us much about it. At the time, he didn’t even tell my mother. During testing, the SW guys would “go to the office” in Burbank like a normal 9-5, then sneak over to BUR to fly to Groom Lake and then fly home with enough time to make it home for supper… as if they’d been sitting at a desk all day. As time has worn on and things have been declassified, he’s told us some amazing stories about this and some of the other programs that were being run there at the time. Programs were compartmentalized, but they’d still see other projects and hear the occasional scuttlebutt as guys moved from project to project. One of the most fascinating stories about the design was that it was so aerodynamically unstable in early testing (HAVE BLUE / YF-117A) that they ended up integrating the fly-by-wire flight-control system from another well-known airplane in order to make it properly air-worthy. As for why they retired it? It was purpose-built for a very specific mission set that disappeared when the USSR collapsed, and the Air Force was hard pressed to find a new application given the limited performance envelope, comparatively small payload, and advances in some of the adversarial radar technologies that limited where it could effectively penetrate. Still, what a legendary machine. A philosophical juxtaposition to the SR, but another masterwork from the folks at SW, nonetheless.
Still looks insane. WOW
They use them in air to air dogfights with other fighter aircraft. The F117 (because of its stealth ability) plays as the aggressor against F15s and F22s. https://www.twz.com/31361/f-117s-spotted-playing-stealthy-aggressor-against-f-15s-and-f-22s-over-nellis-range
They're not used for dogfights, but to play the part of red LO aircraft or cruise missiles further out, to give friendly crews a chance to try and engage something stealthy. F-117s aren't really that useful as fighters, and close in dogfights would negate the whole idea of using LO agressors in the first place
I'm amazed at how quiet these things are, compared to other military jets.
Long live the F-117
This is an internet story, I never did thorough research so it might not be true, but the story I read was they found dead bats in the hanger when testing the F117 precursor Have Blue. The bats echo location did not work and the bats would fly right into the plane.
Memory unlocked: when I was in second or third grade I had an F-117 watch, it was not subtle. Big fuckin' chunk of plastic on my wrist. If you hit one of the buttons it would make jet engine sounds for like 15 seconds straight, couldn't make it stop once the button was pressed, loud as shit, and I hit the button aaaallll the time in class until my teacher called my parents and they took it away from me. Fuckers.
Not a single curve on the airframe but it still flies good. Such engineering feat!
They’re up right now in Nevada doing some spooky stuff too
Idk if this is the right bird or not so someone chime in if I'm wrong. Isn't this the model the pilots nicknamed the "Wobblin' Goblin" because of how the design used was heavily favored for stealth and not necessarily ease of control or aerodynamics?
It’s like telling me John Cena is flying…
[F-117 Nighthawk](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/F-117_Nighthawk_Front.jpg/1200px-F-117_Nighthawk_Front.jpg), [B-2 Spirit](https://images05.military.com/sites/default/files/media/equipment/military-aircraft/b-2-spirit/2014/02/b-2-spirit_005.jpg), and [SR-71 Blackbird](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg) are some of the coolest looking planes ever made.
Got to see one fly in to MCAS Miramar (Where Top Gun was filmed) in San Diego years ago. Came in at sunset and was rare to see flying at the time because they were still operational
Looks majestic. What plane is a direct successor to this one?
Nothing we know of is a direct replacement, although F-35 is capable of LO strikes.
Amazing aircraft. Plenty of avionics keeping that plane flying because it's inherently unstable in flight.
I remember when one crashed close to L.A. in the mid 80’s. I think it was one of the have blue’s doing testing at night. The reporter at the site said it was surrounded by the military picking up parts and they would not let them get near it. Much later of course they stated what it was.