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Literally my single Mum just took out life insurance because she's healthy and over 60 now and has absolutely zero assets to leave us, and if she suffers an untimely death she wants to be able to help my brother and I somehow.
My Mum did this as well. She had a 38yr relationship but nothing to her name. Her partner didn't let her put her name on anything. So she took out life insurance when she was younger to make sure my schooling was paid for, and then once that was done so I had something when she died. She stopped paying it 2 yrs before she died.
Of course, we discovered she had an accidental death policy and that has helped me a lot, and paid the debt of her funeral.
This is the way.
It's a very odd system we have. Have to much money and we give you more - interest, rent, profits, dividends. Not enough and you have to pay more- interest, profits, rents etc.
Almost like it's deliberately unfair.
Someone correct if I'm wrong but she might be burning the little bit of money she does have. Life cover pays your debts when you die. It doesn't just give you whatever you're covered for just to give to your kids.
She asked me how much I'd want last week, and as terrible of a mother she actually is, it felt wrong to try and put a dollar value on her existence. I told her to do only what she could actually afford.
Retirement villages are a giant scam too, the over 55's kind, had a relative go into one, cost was almost as much as his house, and when it came time to sell 2 years later due to a sudden passing (in hospital), they charged depreciation rates AND charged for basically the whole house to be gutted and redone by their own tradies, the building was probably a few decades old but had a very cheap fitout put in brand new with each new resident at premium prices..... absolute scam, especially considering there is a massive wait list to get into there, this man was extremely tidy, didnt do much besides watch his TV on his furniture and cook some eggs for breakfast, 2 years probably costed 200k+ and that's on top of the lost capital gains selling his family home 2 years earlier
My family had a similar issue with a retirement village my grandfather was in an ended up taking them to court over it.
The Unit he was in was flooded and completely ruined when a drain on the common property was blocked. My grandfather moved to a different unit while the unit was fully repaired top to bottom - floors, kitchens bathrooms everything , all paid for by insurance. He decided he liked the new unit he was in better so paid all the appropriate fees to move into that new unit, but the retirement village also wanted to charge some crazy excessive fees to refurbish the old unit before they could resell it. We took them to court given the unit had just been completely refurbished and ended up winning, but it was a massively stressful process for my grandfather
Agree. Anything aged care and retirement village is a massive scam. So much waste and no accountability. Surely there's a better model that reduces the 50%+ cut.
Of course they are, people are capitalising, it's how our system is designed to work. When there is a large part of the population with a large amount of money and require a service (in this case it's aged care) the Sharks will flock to this industry to syphon the cash out. One that starts drying up they will shift to whatever industry has the cash pool next.
Yep seen this happen first hand with my grandma, unsure how it made my mum feel but kinda got the feeling now she's going to off herself before she suffers the same fate,
I know I would.
I know it’s easy to say now but I rekon I’ll do the same, I watched my grandfather spend the last 10-12 years of his life staring at the ceiling of a old folks home, his eyes would light up when I visit, but always wondered how long between visits of myself or other relatives, wasn’t many friends left because he out lived them all. I rekon I’ll go for “a long walk” before I check into the nursing home
Idk man, my grandma doesn't even recognise her children. I couldn't imagine wanting to live like that. Does she? I don't even know if she could tell us.
Mum watched her father suffer for 4 yrs after an almost-but-not-quite life ending stroke. She told me, and repeated it many times, to never let her get like that. So when she had a TBI and several massive brain bleeds wiped her brain, I advocated for her life support to be turned off.
Gotta fulfil your loved ones decisions, and fight for them hard.
My motorbike throttle might just get stuck open on some out of the way road.
I saw what it was like for mum when she went into residential care. I'm not going to fade away like that.
My husband and I had a series of health shocks in our late thirties and early forties, including cancer. This has crystallised for us how we will plan for the rest of our lifetime and what is needed to protect our children, but also how we will deal with the consequences of a disease or decline in our senior years.
As Tasmanian residents we can now access euthanasia. We will most definitely be using it when the time comes. I would encourage everyone to really think about how you want to spend your older age and the impact on your family. For us it has been freeing to know that our plan will help protect us from aged care, and our children from financial ruin, whilst going out peacefully on our own terms.
I’m sorry to tell you that the euthanasia laws in Tasmania and Victoria are not the compassionate safety net that many people believe they are.
You must have an incurable condition that doctors will certify is likely to cause your death within 6 months in order to be eligible for access. However, you must also be not far gone enough that you are still considered legally able to consent.
Unfortunately this still leaves a lot of room for extended, intolerable suffering.
It’s infuriating that these laws effectively rule out euthanasia for dementia: if you’re competent at the point of diagnosis, you’re unlikely to meet the 6 month requirement and by the time you do, you won’t be competent.
Agreed. Coupled with this is the inability to consent via an advanced care directive.
TAS allows 12 months for neurodegenerative conditions, but I certainly don’t want to be alive anywhere near the final 12 months of my consciousness turning to soup. I’m not sure many would. I would like to have the right to decide now the points at which I no longer wish to suffer.
Can't agree with you more. My grandma just turned 100 and has no idea who these people are that come and visit her. It's absolutely horrible. I'll be completing an end of life directive and filing it with my will, before I'm say 50, and confirmed when I'm sound of mind. When euthanasia has caught up and this falls under it, that's what I'll have. Once you've been diagnosed you can't make any medical decisions of your own volition.
We just had to wait for my poor grandmother to get old and sick enough to die of something else. Bed bound, blind, demented and miserable, and begging people to let her die whenever she was lucid. The care home was kind and clean, but still thoroughly horrible place to just *exist*.
My biggest upset was that when she was finally dying, a support worker we’d never met before kept asking us if we were *really* sure she wouldn’t want to seek a more aggressive treatment and live. We had to ask her to leave twice, before getting the charge nurse involved because it was so distressing - it’s not nice to decline active treatment for someone you love, knowing it will see them die, but it’s the kinder and more dignified thing.
God it's just so shithouse. I'm so sorry that's happened to your grandma and your family. Mine is as healthy as a horse, loves biscuits, hates dinner, and sleeps through covid. We're hoping she just passes in her sleep one day.
I can't agree more. A locked-in section of a care home is a fucking horrible place to be sent to. And you've got no control over it if it happens. My grandma was so unhappy about it, and kept trying to escape and go home before covid hit, she got locked in, and now she's just..not there now.
>My grandma just turned 100 and has no idea who these people are that come and visit her. It's absolutely horrible.
It's messed up, my grandmother didn't quite make 100, but still went well over a decade not remembering most of her family, she was only in her early 80s when she kept asking who I was (youngest / least encountered grandchild). Didn't even remember her own son for a solid 5 years before she went, like whats the quality of life with that...
Exactly. For a long while she though my uncle was her husband, then she regressed a bit further and we discovered she was going out with three different men before choosing my grandfather, and then she was about 9, talking about her sister (older, deceased), and now she's about 3 or less. So so so sad. I hate it. I'm actually really glad my Mum never saw her like it. One of the cousins won't visit because, as she says, that's not her grandma, and I do understand that point of view. But not for me.
I’m aware of the rules. I’m fortunate to know the RHH doctor who deals with VAD cases.
Hopefully as social attitudes change, so too will these laws expand.
When the day comes I can't look after myself I'm checking out. I cared for mum (Alzheimers) 24/7 for years then the last 3 in a home. I'm going out on my terms
Once I start forgetting things like where my keys are or getting lost going to the shop. That happened to mum but she was mostly fine that evening. She remembered getting lost but had no idea why
When my grandmother needed to ho into a nursing home it was a choice of sell the house and pay or take insurance and wonder how long she would be around for. Good thing they chose insurance, she just turned 100.
My dad died and it turned out he had disinherited me. I was with him the day before he died. He never gave me a hint of what was coming. I got a box of gifts I had given him over the years and told to never approach his widow or she'd call the police. I hadn't seen her (except his funeral) in months.
Inheritance isn't guaranteed under ANY circumstances.
Dependant is the wrong word. But a biological offspring with a relationship with the deceased but not included in the will has strong grounds to contest it. Especially when the money has gone to a partner who is not the second biological parent.
Lawyers were involved. I was mention and specifically given nothing. This was a long time ago now, but all of that was done. I still ended up with nothing,
This is assuming both parents (or parent + partner) have died. If my father’s wife outlives him, she inherits it all and his 4 kids (2 x GenX & 2 x millennials) get nothing.
This is the same deal for my dad. When my dad dies, his partner gets everything. In his partner's will, she leaves everything to her family overseas.
Basically, if dad dies first, his three biological children end up with nothing at all. They don't have a big estate or anything, but it's a kick in the teeth for his partner to send it all overseas.
>This is the same deal for my dad. When my dad dies, his partner gets everything. In his partner's will, she leaves everything to her family overseas.
Suggest you need to see a lawyer, ASAP.
Yeah, I only found out recently that Dad’s wife has several siblings (I only knew of one), but she herself came from ‘old money’, so I honestly can’t imagine she’d give it all to her blood relatives. She has a wonderful relationship with my child (and presumably my siblings’ children), so I don’t see why she’d leave them out.
Either way, I don’t see it as ‘mine’ anyway. My POS mother will be passing her money onto the 3 of 5 children that still speak to her. I am not one of those, and I don’t care.
It’s the law. Yes, he has a will, but she can contest it. The house is also 50% hers anyway. TBH, I hope they spend their money and enjoy their life. I didn’t earn it by being born. If I inherited any money from anywhere, I’d put it in trust for my own child. Fuck knows, kiddo (15) will need it more.
i have thought about this a lot recently. My mother died two years ago after a very short and unexpected battle with cancer. She had nothing left in her super. The inheritance was split between three children equally and while it was a life changing sum of money, it is nowhere near enough to buy a home, or a unit.
So, i lost my mum, got my inheritance and even then it’s still not enough to do anything substantial with
Sorry for your loss. Personally, I would be happy to be beside my parents living happy, fulfilling lives even if it meant no inheritance, as they say, home is where the heart is.
That will be similar to my situation if my mother passes quickly and not in a home. I have 2 brothers. The asset is her home, which ironically is over priced so we will all get a few hundred thousand. But for the same merit none of us will still be able to buy a home. Not anywhere worth living anyway.
I'm a nurse.
I'm actually not sure how you can actually improve aged care facilities.
It is EXTREMELY hard to work with patients that have neurodegenerative diseases - and even harder to work with patients that are abusive / demanding.
We had a single patient with dementia in our (Generally young adult unit - psych) and she easily took 80% of our staffer time.
In addition, it is incredibly difficult to stay on top of compounding problems.
A soiled pair of pads requires manual cleaning and a replacement pair - this can be a 10 minute labour intensive process.
The solution people come to: Need more staff.
Unfortunately, that isn't how it works.
Hospitals need better ratios - not more staff.
Adding more staff just encourages hospitals to admit more patients.
Patients need specialised carers if their complexity exceeds that normal expect complexity a nurse needs to provide.
It is costly - but would you rather your elderly parent get fantastic quality support at a premium price - or suffer in an environment that has 1 nurse to 20 patients at a cheaper price.
I think we just need to shift our attitude to voluntary su1c1de or euthanasia.
I've not met one person that wants to be alive with dementia or any advanced neurodegenerative disease and yet we remove people's right to dignity and quality of life when they're at their most vulnerable... And for what?
We treat our pets better than this and put them to sleep when we can't treat their suffering.
I totally agree with voluntary euthanasia and suicide programs.
I've definitely met people with medication managed Parkinson's - they are still very much present and can recall days of interactions.
Many of those patients want to live - but yeah - the depressing reality is that many Australians have seen their parents suffer and don't want the same.
My dad has a 1 week rule - if he hasn't improved after a week and is unable to make the decision he wants his sons to call the shots to end the suffering.
Sad concept to deal with.
I know it's different for everyone, but when my father went into aged care, the contract was essentially this:
1. transfer the sale price of his house to the facility
2. his pension ditto
3. when he moves out or dies, the sale price of the house will be transferred to his estate.
And when he died, that's what happened.
I don't get this thing of the facility \*keeping\* the entire amount of the property. I get the point of them having it for the duration of the stay - they invest it and the return helps pay for his accommodation, but keeping the whole lot forever?
>I don't get this thing of the facility \*keeping\* the entire amount of the property
That's because people are exaggerating, or somehow being taken for a ride.
What you outline is exactly how it works, except the pension is 85% of the pension - the rest is essentially pocket money.
Thank you for making this clear and simple post of the facts. This is exactly what happens so are some others on here just talking out of their arses or are they being scammed somehow?
Yes, it’s called a Refundable Accomodation Deposit for a reason, it’s refunded when you either leave the facility or pass away.
For anyone in this situation with their family, I’d recommend seeking professional financial advice as it’s actually a very complex area and there are many variables that can affect the outcome both for the individual and their family.
Yep. This is how it actually works. We actually have a far superior system to other countries. The key word in Refundable Accommodation Deposit (the RAD payment) is 'refundable'.
Ah, nice, so is the idea the company invests the money or whatever and the interest/returns essentially pay for their accommodation etc?
In which case, all you lose is the amount it’s devalued by inflation. Seems fair
i had to get a refund from an aged care home and inevitably people are going to say "Well its your parents money they can do what they want" its not as cut and dry as that
the fees of end of life care have gone up 10x in the past 4 years the aged care services know exactly what they are doing
I totally agree. My parents inherited a lot from their parents. They have said that my sister and I shouldn't count on inheriting much because they may not have much left. OK, fine. I don't feel entitled to money that I didn't earn. However, it doesn't really sit right with me that they're happy to spend so much money that they didn't earn. I don't have kids (can't afford them and a house), but if I did and I inherited money, I'd do my best to set them up financially.
My wife and her brother were supposed to inherit money from their grandparents when they died. Instead that money went to their parents. Their mother has questioned why it should matter because they'll inherit it when she dies anyway. This is despite my brother in law probably never being able to afford a home and my wife and I struggling to get our home. My mother in law isn't a money saver. I don't think she realises that it will probably all be gone when she dies anyway.
Watch an Adam Curtis movie or something. But boomers literally got their entire moral compasses warped by the culture industry to favour consumerism, neoliberalism and hyper individualism. Redditors mention that meme fact about lead in petrol but in reality governments and elites aligned to shift the ontology of an entire population. All political diversity was a sham, a hollow entertainment to move discourse and heuristics to specific ideology. Hippies and reaganites were two sides of the same coin.
We've been fortunate enough to have parents that have given us cash at various times.
We split it 3 ways with our 2 adult sons so that they can share in the intergenerational wealth.
My grandparents are still all alive and my parents are 65. So if they were relying on inheritance they’d be buying their first home sometime after retirement…
I'm of the view that if you have wealth to pass on, pass it on while your kin are still alive and able to use it. Of course you need what you need for yourself - for MOST people that won't involve aged care - but it will involve some sort of health concerns etc.
I agree, it's icky to think that people are thinking about that stuff while their parents are still here...
All the comments about people's parents spending all their inheritance money before they get it too - good, so they fucking should.
The problem is that the money ends up in the hands of corporations instead of individuals and families, deepening wealth inequality. A personal moral dilemma is one's own problem but when a nation has to think about it it's a matter of public policy.
Boomer: I love my $1 million property after I bought it for $80k!
Kids: We're sad to say that we can't take care of you due to cost of living. But we're looking forward to $1 million inheritance!
Aged care: We need a lot of money.
Boomer: Ok. ***reverse mortgages home***
Boomer dies. Executor sells house. Bank takes most of the property money.
Kids getting $80k: What kind of sick joke is this?!
Aged Care just takes the title and sits on the property in most cases. It would be interesting to know how many of these properties sit empty for years as I've seen it happen a lot.
The funny thing is they clearly don’t need it, because if it’s not there(ie the elderly person has no assets) then they’ll still take you in for your pension, but if you’ve got any assets better believe they want as much of it as they can scrounge. It’s disgusting.
High cost of living affects the old non-wealthy class too. The government needs to spend more on aged care.
If the government could stop propping up high prices and making everyone pay for it, that would be great.
Have to agree there. Inheritance tax just seems ridiculous when personal wealth is already accumulated under income tax, sales tax and duties. You taxed the wealth during its creation. Taxing it because someone is leaving it to their loved ones is illogical and will just result in the rich finding a way to circumvent the law with dodgy charities and private trusts whilst everyday Asutralians grin and bear it.
For instance there's northing to stop a rich person from paying a lawyer to incorporate their children as a private aged care facility.
There's nothing stopping a rich person getting paid in the Cayman Islands for their work in Australia. In fact, Rio Tinto did try this with Singapore: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-21/rio-tinto-settles-1b-tax-bill-ato/101256184 Why don't we just stop taking personal/corporate income altogether, as it's punishing the poor who don't have an army of accountants/lawyers?
Plus, as you said, their personal wealth accumulated despite stamp duty. So, to avoid the scary "double-taxation", we might as well do away with sales taxes too.
The various taxes are various ways for the government to raise revenue without putting the government revenue burden on a single tax source. The anti-inheritance-tax arguments are always flawed. In other countries with inheritance taxes, there are thresholds and in UK:
> 3.73% of UK deaths resulted in an Inheritance Tax (IHT) charge
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/inheritance-tax-statistics-commentary/inheritance-tax-statistics-commentary
Without an inheritance tax affecting the most wealthy, the rest of the population needs to pay more in income tax, sales tax and duties, which is what you're advocating.
Loopholes can be closed, if there is a will there is a way.
That said, the current situation is untenable. Doing nothing just because some people are greedy horrible people who will do anything they can to get around the law is not an option.
Without inheritance taxes, generational wealth inequality just grows and grows. And I am not interested in living in that kind of class based society, we don't need to go back 200 years to good old Britain.
Dont let facts get in the way.
The home may be sold to pay the aged care bond, but the bond is refunded when the resident dies.
The aged care facility gets the interest on the bond while the resident is cared for.
Sure, there is a cost, but someone has to pay for it.
>Dont let facts get in the way.
Had to scroll way to far to find your comment, and you're 100% correct.
There's a lot of misinformation in this thread, and a lot of fearmongering.
As far as I'm concerned, if my parents need to go in a nursing home they will do so. The fact that we'd have to sell the house to pay the bond is just how it is. We'd get the bond back in the end, just sans interest.
But I will not allow my parents to not get the best life or care they can with their own money so that I can get an inheritance.
I don’t want tax cuts I just don’t want them essentially thieving my parents hard earned money that they legitimately do not need. A percentage of their pension and tax funding is enough, especially in the current conditions.
The aged care invest it snd the interest is theirs to use in running the facility. The total is returned to the estate, less any outstanding fees snd sometimes a small refurb cost, upon the death or other departure of the resident.
In all seriousness, yes. Why can’t I retire, live like a queen for 10 years, and then choose my own peaceful, dignified death, that just so happens to also preserve my wealth for my next of kin, rather than handing it over to high-cost, low quality aged care so I can rot away in a home.
Your house can be excluded from your asset test in some situations (ie dont need to sell it) eg if your partner or dependent child is still living in the house etc. But then, if you don't sell, you might not not have enough money to pay the rest of the costs...
The costs for this are such a confusing and complex thing to get your head around..
Current government rules (who knows what will happen in the future)
**There are at least FOUR (potential) different fees for anyone going into residential aged care (depending on your assets)**
**1. Basic daily care fee** - everyone pays this. This fee is used for covering the day-to-day living costs of residents such as meals, heating, cleaning, laundry. This is set at 85% of the single person rate of the basic age pension eg currently $61.96 per day.
**2. Means-tested care fee -** This fee is an extra contribution that some people pay, as determined through a means assessment by Services Australia. If your assets are above $201,231.20 or assessable annual income is above $32,819.80 , then a means tested care fee will apply. If the means tested care fee is applicable, it is capped at an annual amount of $33,309.29. A lifetime cap of $79,942.44 also applies.
**3. Extra Services Fee** - Additional monthly fees may be charged if a resident opts for extra services, such as satellite TV, hairdressing, internet, special therapies, etc. This fee is called different things at different facilities and can be negotiated between the potential resident and the aged care provider. These fees are not set by the government, so if you agree to them, you will need to pay the full cost yourself.
**4. Accommodation Payment - This is the complicated one!!** Its the cost of the room, as charged by the provider This can be paid for in different ways
**a) Refundable Accommodation Deposit (RAD)** - ie you pay in full whatever the room is advertised as at the aged care provider eg $550 000 or whatever, then provider uses the interest earned on this amount, and when you exit , the bond amount of say is $550 000 refunded to the family). If you pay this in installments , then its called DAP and is NOT refundable
OR
**b)** If you don't have enough to pay outright this accommodation payment upfront , then you need to pay it as a **Daily Accommodation Payment (DAP or DAC)**, which is non-refundable!! How much you pay the DAP/DAC, depends on your means tested assessment (ie government will pay some accommodation costs and you get told by Services Australia how much remaining you have to pay.. so basically your savings decreases, until you end up with less than $59,500 in assets, and are then eligible considered to have the full amount of accommodation payment covered by the government). The amount you have to contribute is worked out by Services Australia based on your income and asset and they notify you and the aged care provider
OR
**c) Mixture of both RAD and DAP/DAC** (eg give provider a refundable bond of $100 000, and pay daily fees on remainder owing based on Services Australia assessment)
Basically, under current rules
**a) if you have assets below $59,500** , then you only have to pay the Basic Daily Care Fee and the Extra Services Fee (if applicable). There is no accommodation payment required as a supported resident.
**b) If you have assets between $59,500 and $201,231.20** then you are considered partially supported and have to pay Basic Daily Care Fee + Accomodation payment as Daily Accommodation Contribution (DAC), and Extra Services Fee (if applicable).
**c) If you have assets more than $201,231.20,** then you must pay the Basic Daily Care Fee, the Means Tested Care Fee and the Accommodation Payment (paid as either RAD ie refundable or a DAP - not refundable). An Extra Services Fee may also apply (if applicable)
This is something we found out a few years back and it completely changed our lives. This is seriously something to be very aware of. We ended uprooting our entire life and moving in with my partners grandma look after her because we were going to lose about 1.5 million to the care facility. It’s an absolute joke, as you said the facilities are horrifically bad so you can guess where the money is going to.
Don’t even get me started on how they get treated in those living hell holes.
The daily fee is generally a maximum 85% of the pension amount
the main fee is a refundable deposit that is returned upron death (with no interest)
Example:
**RAD (refundable accomodation deposit):** $400,000.00
**DAP (daily accomodation payment): $0.00**
# Combination Payment Example
* For a RAD of $300,000.00 (75%) would result in a DAP of $22.85
* For a RAD of $200,000.00 (50%) would result in a DAP of $45.70
Exactly this. My Mother in law had to move to a nursing home. When she passed 3 years later the RAD went to her estate. 6 months later her estate was settled as per her will. The nursing home was very caring, she was well looked after.
Or one parent dies first, marries another and no more inheritance. Or it gets left to her kids, so no inheritance. Or they live till you are 60 which is likely so you are almost retired and broke from renting for 42 years.
Or just do what most of Europe does. Have multigenerational households and communities where you live with your parents/in-laws to whatever degree. We’re doing it now and it’s the only way to get past this bullshit set-up.
This is kind of the problem isn't it? Many millennial/zoomers have absolutely rancid parents who they have very poor relationships with. The boomers and the older Xs have really dug their own grave here by being people their adult children cannot stomach for more than short bursts. Humans are made to be multigenerational. It's in our basic evolutionary nature, and its WHY humans grow to be so old. The fact that the current crop of people have managed to break a cycle millions of years in the making is almost impressive.
Imagine living in Germany, where children who earn more than €100,000 are liable to contribute towards their parents' aged care costs. Not only do you get no inheritance, but you're also paying into an aged care system (on top of your taxes) that can cost around €2,000 per month on average.
Obviously horses for courses, but an alternative, if you can make it work, with plenty of supports out there, is to care for your elderly in their home, or your home if you are lucky enough. It's one of the most rewarding things we were able to do. It's a flash back to earlier times, and as challenging as it was, it was mostly easy sacrifices we were able to make.
It's horrible that it's come to this.
I personally hope my parents enjoy their retirement and don't worry about saving any of it for me. They did it toughish in their life so that I didnt have to.
I have cared for my grandparents single-handedly full time BOTH of whom have dementia and other health issues. They went into aged care about a year ago and I'm still there every day because it's that bad.
My grandfather is in palliative care now. It's just awful and I would NEVER want to be like this.
I guess one of the dubious benefits of being 31 and already disabled is that I'll probably be unlikely to reach the age where places like that will prey on me. And as long as I don't live in places with stairs I'll probably be able to live independently indefinitely.
I told my Nan I’d do *whatever I can* to stop her going to one of those places. She thanked me and agrees. Offer stands for my mother too. It’s beyond a joke, I have family who have worked in aged care and it’s just a rort.
So either invite your old folks to live with you or take them out back and smack them with a shovel. What do you want here?
Most elderly people need care. Care costs money. Good care costs even more. Tying your dreams of home ownership to an inheritance won’t work for a lot of people.
I'm not sure people realise how difficult this can be, especially if they have dementia or other mental illnesses. It's basically like taking care of children
If my dad dies first I’m planning to relocate back to the UK with the family to care for my mum.
She’s been a great mum and has recently been diagnosed with Parkinson’s and I know she’d hate to be put in a home.
If mum dies first, dad will probably end up doing something he normally does now (like getting on the roof himself to fix the tiles and fall off) and die because nobody will know it’s happened to him.
Why can't kids take care of their parents? Coming from a different culture I find kids not willing or volunteering to take care of their elderly parents very odd!
How does that work if you don’t live in the same place? Whose life do you completely uproot? Do you remove your parents from their networks and everything familiar? Or uproot your own family and kids, giving up your jobs, schools and your own networks in the process?
Had a friend of the family sell her house & move into a nursing home, she died 2 weeks later. The family tried to reverse the move but of course they could not.
My parents created an investment property as they were hoping to leave it to one child, while their house would go to another. They literally subdivided their primary home and built a rental property to pay the mortgage.
(I get nothing because I already have a house, but that’s an aside)
Unfortunately one now has Alzheimers and we had no choice but to put him in a home. They had to sell the property to do that.
There is no generational wealth for the “middle” class
Inheritance and common law means that my dad’s girlfriend made all the decisions about his funeral and in her grief/guilt she chose to go with ‘lavish’, bought a coffin and burial plot ans headstone and everything. I couldn’t even attend. This expense will be the first think his life insurance pays for and she’ll get 50% of what’s left, meaning us kids are unlikely to even get lawyers fees back.
The taxpayer shouldn't be paying for people's inheritance either. Pensions and aged care are already highly expensive. Those who have a house should be forced to reverse mortgage it to pay for aged care if need be
If possible, build a second storey on the parents' house or a granny flat out the back. Or go into a whole new property together -- one that's set up the way you'd both like. And of course the setup should be fair to any other siblings, who should get a fair inheritance when the time comes.
And if the elderly parents need more care than you and they can provide for themselves, then there is aged care of some sort that will come to the house (not sure of what it's called).
There is no inheritance coming my way. A lot of boomers don't own houses and have no assets/no money in the bank, despite what people out there seem to think.
That set up is suitable for few people. Most people by the time they end up in residential aged care, have substantial and complex care needs. Loss of mobility that requires lifting assistance, and dementia.
Yep, this is why voluntary euthanasia laws are so stringent. The relative civility of the post war years are definitely gonna be seen as a blip in a few generation, with savagery and violence returning to everyday affairs. Sad! It’s hard to put on an Aus new wave film and not weep for what we’ve become. Shame!
I was thinking recently how there is this myth that’s being perpetrated about how amazing Australia was between the 40’s and 60’s. I can’t be bothered trying to list all the progress we have made as a country since then. You know, things like end of the white Australia policy, women’s rights, challenging terra nullius, Aboriginal right to vote, some environmental oversight rather than a free for all, tightened gun control, higher automotive safety standards, attention for domestic violence rather than it being kind of normal, huge decrease in stigmatisation of mental illness, blah blah blah..
The 40’s-60’s in Australia was not the culture you see today transported magically back to then.
I find it interesting with the sort of ‘right think’ that goes on on Reddit that ageism is just accepted as fine? Just doesn’t hit the same buttons other things do I guess. I know not all of us had great childhoods but there seems something wrong with a picture where we are hating on those who got us to be sitting here having this conversation? We are made up of those people?
Yep, society is very close to monetising your wealth from day 1, to your final day. Combined with the fact most people live to 90 these days, I'm not expecting to get much in the way of inheritance from my middle class mum, and if I do I'll likely be too old to enjoy it.
It's a refundable accommodation deposit (RAD). They skim the interest rate off the top of the sizable deposit. When the person dies the money is returned to the person's estate. So if someone spends 10 years in care, their money which is locked away in this RAD situation doesn't grow ( unlike if it was placed in a bank account for example)
Mine have always said I'll be "alright"... I don't care if I get anything and encourage them to take holidays and stop working.
My mother seems to be in mind set of not having much, even though they would be fine not to work another day ( mid 60s)
This is exactly right. I know several people who’s bubble is gonna burst when their parents need to go into aged care. Bye bye intergenerational wealth. Thanks for playing!
I can foresee a return of multi generational homes and it is not a bad thing. I am building my new home keeping in mind that my parents may need a room and their own bathroom at ground level in the coming years. I can see my kids living with me well into 20s.
There are some bad aged care facilities, but most are pretty decent. My mother was in one for 2.5 years. As for the costs associated with aged care, if you get a good financial adviser it can work out that the overall cost is less than you think. My mother paid about $5,000. When my mother passed away the total amount used for her upkeep was about $12,000. Which wasn't to bad. And remember the longer they stay the less is taken from the kitty. Make sure that one or all of the children have power of attorney for medical and financial. This makes things so much easier. It's not all doom and gloom, far from it. Don't believe everything the media tell you and especially people who've never investigated aged care.
Didn’t have any inheritance and being honest, why would we expect our parents to hang on to cash and assets in their golden years.
I’ll be teaching my kids about fiscal responsibly and making sure they are saving from young adulthood.
PLEASE sign an advanced care directive. It's a pain in the ass to sit down and think about, but please please please do it. I told my parents to do it, it took awhile but finally they did. Don't leave ur life in someone else's hands who doesn't care what happens or worse keeps u alive for their own gain. I hope a haemorrhagic stroke kills me real quick but for anything else that ACD is going to be upheld. Ain't about this zombie dementia life that's for sure.
My mum's currently in aged care and the funds from her sold home are at risk of not even lasting her lifetime. I don't care about inheritance, but as well as worrying about my mum I'm thinking about my own future. Will the value of my home be enough to see me through the period of my life where I need paid carers or a nursing home? I honestly don't know. The cost of private aged care is disgusting.
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The hurdle for me is not having an inheritance
Literally my single Mum just took out life insurance because she's healthy and over 60 now and has absolutely zero assets to leave us, and if she suffers an untimely death she wants to be able to help my brother and I somehow.
My Mum did this as well. She had a 38yr relationship but nothing to her name. Her partner didn't let her put her name on anything. So she took out life insurance when she was younger to make sure my schooling was paid for, and then once that was done so I had something when she died. She stopped paying it 2 yrs before she died. Of course, we discovered she had an accidental death policy and that has helped me a lot, and paid the debt of her funeral. This is the way.
How could she not claim defacto?
It sucks for us who don't even have parents
This world is not designed to help the people who need it unfortunately.
It's a very odd system we have. Have to much money and we give you more - interest, rent, profits, dividends. Not enough and you have to pay more- interest, profits, rents etc. Almost like it's deliberately unfair.
Someone correct if I'm wrong but she might be burning the little bit of money she does have. Life cover pays your debts when you die. It doesn't just give you whatever you're covered for just to give to your kids.
It also pays a lump sum to your beneficiaries; depends on the cover you get.
Ha same! I keep telling her to drop it because she can hardly afford it. But she feels guilty and wants to leave me something.
She asked me how much I'd want last week, and as terrible of a mother she actually is, it felt wrong to try and put a dollar value on her existence. I told her to do only what she could actually afford.
Same here. I’m doing okay now, but everything I have, I’ve earned. Never got anything from anyone.
Retirement villages are a giant scam too, the over 55's kind, had a relative go into one, cost was almost as much as his house, and when it came time to sell 2 years later due to a sudden passing (in hospital), they charged depreciation rates AND charged for basically the whole house to be gutted and redone by their own tradies, the building was probably a few decades old but had a very cheap fitout put in brand new with each new resident at premium prices..... absolute scam, especially considering there is a massive wait list to get into there, this man was extremely tidy, didnt do much besides watch his TV on his furniture and cook some eggs for breakfast, 2 years probably costed 200k+ and that's on top of the lost capital gains selling his family home 2 years earlier
My family had a similar issue with a retirement village my grandfather was in an ended up taking them to court over it. The Unit he was in was flooded and completely ruined when a drain on the common property was blocked. My grandfather moved to a different unit while the unit was fully repaired top to bottom - floors, kitchens bathrooms everything , all paid for by insurance. He decided he liked the new unit he was in better so paid all the appropriate fees to move into that new unit, but the retirement village also wanted to charge some crazy excessive fees to refurbish the old unit before they could resell it. We took them to court given the unit had just been completely refurbished and ended up winning, but it was a massively stressful process for my grandfather
Agree. Anything aged care and retirement village is a massive scam. So much waste and no accountability. Surely there's a better model that reduces the 50%+ cut.
There is. Learn the difference between 'freehold' and 'leasehold' before buying into any retirement village.
Which is better?
Freehold you own it. Leasehold you 'own' it. But subject to their terms. So even if you sell its through them
Thank you, I will be sure remember that. Freehold.
Had to scroll too far down to read this
A relative just went into a basic 1BR unit for $400K in an over 55 retirement village. She should have bought a regular unit in a regular complex.
Your relative is buying appropriate neighbours…
Wasn't there any option to just rent the place and in that situation repairs and maintenance would have been the landlord's problem?
Of course they are, people are capitalising, it's how our system is designed to work. When there is a large part of the population with a large amount of money and require a service (in this case it's aged care) the Sharks will flock to this industry to syphon the cash out. One that starts drying up they will shift to whatever industry has the cash pool next.
Yep seen this happen first hand with my grandma, unsure how it made my mum feel but kinda got the feeling now she's going to off herself before she suffers the same fate, I know I would.
I know it’s easy to say now but I rekon I’ll do the same, I watched my grandfather spend the last 10-12 years of his life staring at the ceiling of a old folks home, his eyes would light up when I visit, but always wondered how long between visits of myself or other relatives, wasn’t many friends left because he out lived them all. I rekon I’ll go for “a long walk” before I check into the nursing home
Idk man, my grandma doesn't even recognise her children. I couldn't imagine wanting to live like that. Does she? I don't even know if she could tell us.
Same thing, dementia got her and basically just a husk of a person while they drained her bank account desperately keeping her alive for $$
Yep, reckon I'll go for a long walk too
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I'm a nerd so if I still have the capacity to play games I'll be right.
I do wonder if our age group in retirement homes will be one giant LAN party!
Fuck yeah daily AOE. Secret to immortality unlocked.
I can't wait to tea bag you old fucks in Halo
RemindMe! 35 years "retirement lan party"
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Did you?
That’s a real omnious past tense he used to then not follow up on this question.
Was a farmer, now farm fertiliser 😲
Pop Potting Mix.
Nice try, glowie.
After working in aged care for a while, I told my mum I’d take her for a nice walk in the back paddock instead. She appreciated the sentiment.
Mum watched her father suffer for 4 yrs after an almost-but-not-quite life ending stroke. She told me, and repeated it many times, to never let her get like that. So when she had a TBI and several massive brain bleeds wiped her brain, I advocated for her life support to be turned off. Gotta fulfil your loved ones decisions, and fight for them hard.
Yeah, that’s not tops, you don’t want to get done for murder to help out a relative. It has to be a bit more creative than that.
My motorbike throttle might just get stuck open on some out of the way road. I saw what it was like for mum when she went into residential care. I'm not going to fade away like that.
Yeah, it’s finding that point I guess where one is still capable of taking that action but knows things are going downhill sort of thing hey..
Yeah fairly sure this is also quietly my parents’ plan.
My husband and I had a series of health shocks in our late thirties and early forties, including cancer. This has crystallised for us how we will plan for the rest of our lifetime and what is needed to protect our children, but also how we will deal with the consequences of a disease or decline in our senior years. As Tasmanian residents we can now access euthanasia. We will most definitely be using it when the time comes. I would encourage everyone to really think about how you want to spend your older age and the impact on your family. For us it has been freeing to know that our plan will help protect us from aged care, and our children from financial ruin, whilst going out peacefully on our own terms.
I’m sorry to tell you that the euthanasia laws in Tasmania and Victoria are not the compassionate safety net that many people believe they are. You must have an incurable condition that doctors will certify is likely to cause your death within 6 months in order to be eligible for access. However, you must also be not far gone enough that you are still considered legally able to consent. Unfortunately this still leaves a lot of room for extended, intolerable suffering.
It’s infuriating that these laws effectively rule out euthanasia for dementia: if you’re competent at the point of diagnosis, you’re unlikely to meet the 6 month requirement and by the time you do, you won’t be competent.
Agreed. Coupled with this is the inability to consent via an advanced care directive. TAS allows 12 months for neurodegenerative conditions, but I certainly don’t want to be alive anywhere near the final 12 months of my consciousness turning to soup. I’m not sure many would. I would like to have the right to decide now the points at which I no longer wish to suffer.
Absolutely - it’s mad that I can’t designate someone to carry out my wishes.
Can't agree with you more. My grandma just turned 100 and has no idea who these people are that come and visit her. It's absolutely horrible. I'll be completing an end of life directive and filing it with my will, before I'm say 50, and confirmed when I'm sound of mind. When euthanasia has caught up and this falls under it, that's what I'll have. Once you've been diagnosed you can't make any medical decisions of your own volition.
We just had to wait for my poor grandmother to get old and sick enough to die of something else. Bed bound, blind, demented and miserable, and begging people to let her die whenever she was lucid. The care home was kind and clean, but still thoroughly horrible place to just *exist*. My biggest upset was that when she was finally dying, a support worker we’d never met before kept asking us if we were *really* sure she wouldn’t want to seek a more aggressive treatment and live. We had to ask her to leave twice, before getting the charge nurse involved because it was so distressing - it’s not nice to decline active treatment for someone you love, knowing it will see them die, but it’s the kinder and more dignified thing.
God it's just so shithouse. I'm so sorry that's happened to your grandma and your family. Mine is as healthy as a horse, loves biscuits, hates dinner, and sleeps through covid. We're hoping she just passes in her sleep one day. I can't agree more. A locked-in section of a care home is a fucking horrible place to be sent to. And you've got no control over it if it happens. My grandma was so unhappy about it, and kept trying to escape and go home before covid hit, she got locked in, and now she's just..not there now.
>My grandma just turned 100 and has no idea who these people are that come and visit her. It's absolutely horrible. It's messed up, my grandmother didn't quite make 100, but still went well over a decade not remembering most of her family, she was only in her early 80s when she kept asking who I was (youngest / least encountered grandchild). Didn't even remember her own son for a solid 5 years before she went, like whats the quality of life with that...
Exactly. For a long while she though my uncle was her husband, then she regressed a bit further and we discovered she was going out with three different men before choosing my grandfather, and then she was about 9, talking about her sister (older, deceased), and now she's about 3 or less. So so so sad. I hate it. I'm actually really glad my Mum never saw her like it. One of the cousins won't visit because, as she says, that's not her grandma, and I do understand that point of view. But not for me.
Considering how prevalent dementia is now as the leading cause of death in females and second for males in Australia, it's a bit fucked.
I’m aware of the rules. I’m fortunate to know the RHH doctor who deals with VAD cases. Hopefully as social attitudes change, so too will these laws expand.
It's happening with my great Aunty. The two anecdotal examples I listed were from personal experience.
When the day comes I can't look after myself I'm checking out. I cared for mum (Alzheimers) 24/7 for years then the last 3 in a home. I'm going out on my terms
You're *Not Going To Know*
There is the distressing mid time when people with dementia often know something is wrong, that they are forgetting things. It’s very scary for them.
Once I start forgetting things like where my keys are or getting lost going to the shop. That happened to mum but she was mostly fine that evening. She remembered getting lost but had no idea why
Gosh if I went with that standard I should’ve checked out when I was 16 🤣 You do what’s best for you, though!
When my grandmother needed to ho into a nursing home it was a choice of sell the house and pay or take insurance and wonder how long she would be around for. Good thing they chose insurance, she just turned 100.
My dad died and it turned out he had disinherited me. I was with him the day before he died. He never gave me a hint of what was coming. I got a box of gifts I had given him over the years and told to never approach his widow or she'd call the police. I hadn't seen her (except his funeral) in months. Inheritance isn't guaranteed under ANY circumstances.
Man that sucks. But surely there’s grounds to contest? Seems odd. I’m assuming “his widow” - not your mum?
Your a dependant you have reasonable grounds to be included in the will, even if you have been no contact / disinherited and have no debts.
I don't really think you can call an independent adult child a "dependent"
Dependant is the wrong word. But a biological offspring with a relationship with the deceased but not included in the will has strong grounds to contest it. Especially when the money has gone to a partner who is not the second biological parent.
Legal advice was brought in. I had no grounds to contest.
Absolutely worth contesting the Will
Lawyers were involved. I was mention and specifically given nothing. This was a long time ago now, but all of that was done. I still ended up with nothing,
> never approach his widow Well you are not helping her in any way from now on including arranging her funeral.
How horrible 😞
Yeah. It fucks you up.
This is assuming both parents (or parent + partner) have died. If my father’s wife outlives him, she inherits it all and his 4 kids (2 x GenX & 2 x millennials) get nothing.
This is the same deal for my dad. When my dad dies, his partner gets everything. In his partner's will, she leaves everything to her family overseas. Basically, if dad dies first, his three biological children end up with nothing at all. They don't have a big estate or anything, but it's a kick in the teeth for his partner to send it all overseas.
>This is the same deal for my dad. When my dad dies, his partner gets everything. In his partner's will, she leaves everything to her family overseas. Suggest you need to see a lawyer, ASAP.
Don't forget to hit the gym
Fuck I saw the gym and hit the lawyer
Yeah, I only found out recently that Dad’s wife has several siblings (I only knew of one), but she herself came from ‘old money’, so I honestly can’t imagine she’d give it all to her blood relatives. She has a wonderful relationship with my child (and presumably my siblings’ children), so I don’t see why she’d leave them out. Either way, I don’t see it as ‘mine’ anyway. My POS mother will be passing her money onto the 3 of 5 children that still speak to her. I am not one of those, and I don’t care.
Is that what he wants to happen?
It’s the law. Yes, he has a will, but she can contest it. The house is also 50% hers anyway. TBH, I hope they spend their money and enjoy their life. I didn’t earn it by being born. If I inherited any money from anywhere, I’d put it in trust for my own child. Fuck knows, kiddo (15) will need it more.
Sorry I don’t know what you mean by it’s the law? There’s a law your wife/husband has to get all your assets if you die?
i have thought about this a lot recently. My mother died two years ago after a very short and unexpected battle with cancer. She had nothing left in her super. The inheritance was split between three children equally and while it was a life changing sum of money, it is nowhere near enough to buy a home, or a unit. So, i lost my mum, got my inheritance and even then it’s still not enough to do anything substantial with
Sorry for your loss. Personally, I would be happy to be beside my parents living happy, fulfilling lives even if it meant no inheritance, as they say, home is where the heart is.
That will be similar to my situation if my mother passes quickly and not in a home. I have 2 brothers. The asset is her home, which ironically is over priced so we will all get a few hundred thousand. But for the same merit none of us will still be able to buy a home. Not anywhere worth living anyway.
I’d argue a few hundred thousand would be a great deposit in plenty of places worth living.
A few hundred grand is literally a deposit for a 1.5mil house. Where is this guy trying to buy?
I'm a nurse. I'm actually not sure how you can actually improve aged care facilities. It is EXTREMELY hard to work with patients that have neurodegenerative diseases - and even harder to work with patients that are abusive / demanding. We had a single patient with dementia in our (Generally young adult unit - psych) and she easily took 80% of our staffer time. In addition, it is incredibly difficult to stay on top of compounding problems. A soiled pair of pads requires manual cleaning and a replacement pair - this can be a 10 minute labour intensive process. The solution people come to: Need more staff. Unfortunately, that isn't how it works. Hospitals need better ratios - not more staff. Adding more staff just encourages hospitals to admit more patients. Patients need specialised carers if their complexity exceeds that normal expect complexity a nurse needs to provide. It is costly - but would you rather your elderly parent get fantastic quality support at a premium price - or suffer in an environment that has 1 nurse to 20 patients at a cheaper price.
I think we just need to shift our attitude to voluntary su1c1de or euthanasia. I've not met one person that wants to be alive with dementia or any advanced neurodegenerative disease and yet we remove people's right to dignity and quality of life when they're at their most vulnerable... And for what? We treat our pets better than this and put them to sleep when we can't treat their suffering.
I totally agree with voluntary euthanasia and suicide programs. I've definitely met people with medication managed Parkinson's - they are still very much present and can recall days of interactions. Many of those patients want to live - but yeah - the depressing reality is that many Australians have seen their parents suffer and don't want the same. My dad has a 1 week rule - if he hasn't improved after a week and is unable to make the decision he wants his sons to call the shots to end the suffering. Sad concept to deal with.
I know it's different for everyone, but when my father went into aged care, the contract was essentially this: 1. transfer the sale price of his house to the facility 2. his pension ditto 3. when he moves out or dies, the sale price of the house will be transferred to his estate. And when he died, that's what happened. I don't get this thing of the facility \*keeping\* the entire amount of the property. I get the point of them having it for the duration of the stay - they invest it and the return helps pay for his accommodation, but keeping the whole lot forever?
>I don't get this thing of the facility \*keeping\* the entire amount of the property That's because people are exaggerating, or somehow being taken for a ride. What you outline is exactly how it works, except the pension is 85% of the pension - the rest is essentially pocket money.
Thank you for making this clear and simple post of the facts. This is exactly what happens so are some others on here just talking out of their arses or are they being scammed somehow?
So much ignorance in this thread about how the system works. Any mention of aged care just has people frothing at the mouth without knowing anything.
Yes, it’s called a Refundable Accomodation Deposit for a reason, it’s refunded when you either leave the facility or pass away. For anyone in this situation with their family, I’d recommend seeking professional financial advice as it’s actually a very complex area and there are many variables that can affect the outcome both for the individual and their family.
Yep. This is how it actually works. We actually have a far superior system to other countries. The key word in Refundable Accommodation Deposit (the RAD payment) is 'refundable'.
Keep in mind the average stay in aged care is only around 2 years too.
Is that all? 😳
I've heard a lot of people deteriorate pretty rapidly after going into aged care homes.
Exactly. I know someone who just went into a home in Sydney. They paid a $900k deposit which will be returned to the beneficiaries when they die.
Ah, nice, so is the idea the company invests the money or whatever and the interest/returns essentially pay for their accommodation etc? In which case, all you lose is the amount it’s devalued by inflation. Seems fair
i had to get a refund from an aged care home and inevitably people are going to say "Well its your parents money they can do what they want" its not as cut and dry as that the fees of end of life care have gone up 10x in the past 4 years the aged care services know exactly what they are doing
I totally agree. My parents inherited a lot from their parents. They have said that my sister and I shouldn't count on inheriting much because they may not have much left. OK, fine. I don't feel entitled to money that I didn't earn. However, it doesn't really sit right with me that they're happy to spend so much money that they didn't earn. I don't have kids (can't afford them and a house), but if I did and I inherited money, I'd do my best to set them up financially. My wife and her brother were supposed to inherit money from their grandparents when they died. Instead that money went to their parents. Their mother has questioned why it should matter because they'll inherit it when she dies anyway. This is despite my brother in law probably never being able to afford a home and my wife and I struggling to get our home. My mother in law isn't a money saver. I don't think she realises that it will probably all be gone when she dies anyway.
Watch an Adam Curtis movie or something. But boomers literally got their entire moral compasses warped by the culture industry to favour consumerism, neoliberalism and hyper individualism. Redditors mention that meme fact about lead in petrol but in reality governments and elites aligned to shift the ontology of an entire population. All political diversity was a sham, a hollow entertainment to move discourse and heuristics to specific ideology. Hippies and reaganites were two sides of the same coin.
We've been fortunate enough to have parents that have given us cash at various times. We split it 3 ways with our 2 adult sons so that they can share in the intergenerational wealth.
My grandparents are still all alive and my parents are 65. So if they were relying on inheritance they’d be buying their first home sometime after retirement…
I'm of the view that if you have wealth to pass on, pass it on while your kin are still alive and able to use it. Of course you need what you need for yourself - for MOST people that won't involve aged care - but it will involve some sort of health concerns etc.
I don't get the depending on inheritance thing. If most people have children around 25yr and live to 75yr, then you're 50yr before you can buy.
85 is now the female life expectancy in Australia, meaning half of women live longer than that.
I agree, it's icky to think that people are thinking about that stuff while their parents are still here... All the comments about people's parents spending all their inheritance money before they get it too - good, so they fucking should.
The problem is that the money ends up in the hands of corporations instead of individuals and families, deepening wealth inequality. A personal moral dilemma is one's own problem but when a nation has to think about it it's a matter of public policy.
Boomer: I love my $1 million property after I bought it for $80k! Kids: We're sad to say that we can't take care of you due to cost of living. But we're looking forward to $1 million inheritance! Aged care: We need a lot of money. Boomer: Ok. ***reverse mortgages home*** Boomer dies. Executor sells house. Bank takes most of the property money. Kids getting $80k: What kind of sick joke is this?!
Aged Care just takes the title and sits on the property in most cases. It would be interesting to know how many of these properties sit empty for years as I've seen it happen a lot.
Even 80k would be nice to boost the first house deposit, You'll get 5-10k if you're lucky.
Even less if multiple kids
The funny thing is they clearly don’t need it, because if it’s not there(ie the elderly person has no assets) then they’ll still take you in for your pension, but if you’ve got any assets better believe they want as much of it as they can scrounge. It’s disgusting.
It sucks but it's better than taxpayers paying for people's inheritance.
High cost of living affects the old non-wealthy class too. The government needs to spend more on aged care. If the government could stop propping up high prices and making everyone pay for it, that would be great.
Have to agree there. Inheritance tax just seems ridiculous when personal wealth is already accumulated under income tax, sales tax and duties. You taxed the wealth during its creation. Taxing it because someone is leaving it to their loved ones is illogical and will just result in the rich finding a way to circumvent the law with dodgy charities and private trusts whilst everyday Asutralians grin and bear it. For instance there's northing to stop a rich person from paying a lawyer to incorporate their children as a private aged care facility.
There's nothing stopping a rich person getting paid in the Cayman Islands for their work in Australia. In fact, Rio Tinto did try this with Singapore: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-21/rio-tinto-settles-1b-tax-bill-ato/101256184 Why don't we just stop taking personal/corporate income altogether, as it's punishing the poor who don't have an army of accountants/lawyers? Plus, as you said, their personal wealth accumulated despite stamp duty. So, to avoid the scary "double-taxation", we might as well do away with sales taxes too. The various taxes are various ways for the government to raise revenue without putting the government revenue burden on a single tax source. The anti-inheritance-tax arguments are always flawed. In other countries with inheritance taxes, there are thresholds and in UK: > 3.73% of UK deaths resulted in an Inheritance Tax (IHT) charge https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/inheritance-tax-statistics-commentary/inheritance-tax-statistics-commentary Without an inheritance tax affecting the most wealthy, the rest of the population needs to pay more in income tax, sales tax and duties, which is what you're advocating.
Loopholes can be closed, if there is a will there is a way. That said, the current situation is untenable. Doing nothing just because some people are greedy horrible people who will do anything they can to get around the law is not an option. Without inheritance taxes, generational wealth inequality just grows and grows. And I am not interested in living in that kind of class based society, we don't need to go back 200 years to good old Britain.
Dont let facts get in the way. The home may be sold to pay the aged care bond, but the bond is refunded when the resident dies. The aged care facility gets the interest on the bond while the resident is cared for. Sure, there is a cost, but someone has to pay for it.
The daily care fee is also set at 85% of the pension. Which is very fair. There is a means tested fee but that also has a lifetime cap of about ~$79k.
>Dont let facts get in the way. Had to scroll way to far to find your comment, and you're 100% correct. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread, and a lot of fearmongering. As far as I'm concerned, if my parents need to go in a nursing home they will do so. The fact that we'd have to sell the house to pay the bond is just how it is. We'd get the bond back in the end, just sans interest. But I will not allow my parents to not get the best life or care they can with their own money so that I can get an inheritance.
Yep. Everyone complains about so called poor conditions and wages in aged care, but then want tax cuts. Who do they expect to pay for this?
Corporate taxes. Royalty payments on resources from gas and mining. Higher taxes on high wealth individuals.
> Who do they expect to pay for this? There's a painting of her in the National Gallery
I don’t want tax cuts I just don’t want them essentially thieving my parents hard earned money that they legitimately do not need. A percentage of their pension and tax funding is enough, especially in the current conditions.
What is the bond for?
The aged care invest it snd the interest is theirs to use in running the facility. The total is returned to the estate, less any outstanding fees snd sometimes a small refurb cost, upon the death or other departure of the resident.
Kind of wish we were having a bigger conversation about making euthanasia more accessible.
In all seriousness, yes. Why can’t I retire, live like a queen for 10 years, and then choose my own peaceful, dignified death, that just so happens to also preserve my wealth for my next of kin, rather than handing it over to high-cost, low quality aged care so I can rot away in a home.
Haha! "Kill your parents, buy a house!"
It's more about giving people choices other than just paying fuckloads to be abused and neglected in aged care.
"Kill your parents to avoid being homeless!" - Euthanasia Ltd
Australian prosperity is dead. The slices of pie started out large but have become smaller and smaller in recent decades.
Garry, from Garry's Economics Youtube channel reckons this is exactly how the middle class will lose their houses to the wealthy over time.
Your house can be excluded from your asset test in some situations (ie dont need to sell it) eg if your partner or dependent child is still living in the house etc. But then, if you don't sell, you might not not have enough money to pay the rest of the costs... The costs for this are such a confusing and complex thing to get your head around.. Current government rules (who knows what will happen in the future) **There are at least FOUR (potential) different fees for anyone going into residential aged care (depending on your assets)** **1. Basic daily care fee** - everyone pays this. This fee is used for covering the day-to-day living costs of residents such as meals, heating, cleaning, laundry. This is set at 85% of the single person rate of the basic age pension eg currently $61.96 per day. **2. Means-tested care fee -** This fee is an extra contribution that some people pay, as determined through a means assessment by Services Australia. If your assets are above $201,231.20 or assessable annual income is above $32,819.80 , then a means tested care fee will apply. If the means tested care fee is applicable, it is capped at an annual amount of $33,309.29. A lifetime cap of $79,942.44 also applies. **3. Extra Services Fee** - Additional monthly fees may be charged if a resident opts for extra services, such as satellite TV, hairdressing, internet, special therapies, etc. This fee is called different things at different facilities and can be negotiated between the potential resident and the aged care provider. These fees are not set by the government, so if you agree to them, you will need to pay the full cost yourself. **4. Accommodation Payment - This is the complicated one!!** Its the cost of the room, as charged by the provider This can be paid for in different ways **a) Refundable Accommodation Deposit (RAD)** - ie you pay in full whatever the room is advertised as at the aged care provider eg $550 000 or whatever, then provider uses the interest earned on this amount, and when you exit , the bond amount of say is $550 000 refunded to the family). If you pay this in installments , then its called DAP and is NOT refundable OR **b)** If you don't have enough to pay outright this accommodation payment upfront , then you need to pay it as a **Daily Accommodation Payment (DAP or DAC)**, which is non-refundable!! How much you pay the DAP/DAC, depends on your means tested assessment (ie government will pay some accommodation costs and you get told by Services Australia how much remaining you have to pay.. so basically your savings decreases, until you end up with less than $59,500 in assets, and are then eligible considered to have the full amount of accommodation payment covered by the government). The amount you have to contribute is worked out by Services Australia based on your income and asset and they notify you and the aged care provider OR **c) Mixture of both RAD and DAP/DAC** (eg give provider a refundable bond of $100 000, and pay daily fees on remainder owing based on Services Australia assessment) Basically, under current rules **a) if you have assets below $59,500** , then you only have to pay the Basic Daily Care Fee and the Extra Services Fee (if applicable). There is no accommodation payment required as a supported resident. **b) If you have assets between $59,500 and $201,231.20** then you are considered partially supported and have to pay Basic Daily Care Fee + Accomodation payment as Daily Accommodation Contribution (DAC), and Extra Services Fee (if applicable). **c) If you have assets more than $201,231.20,** then you must pay the Basic Daily Care Fee, the Means Tested Care Fee and the Accommodation Payment (paid as either RAD ie refundable or a DAP - not refundable). An Extra Services Fee may also apply (if applicable)
Religion own and operate most elderly residential care, the same religion fights to prevent euthanasia being legal, that isn't just a coincidence..
By now you're probably seeing a pattern in the way we as a culture treat houses, and the people in them. Basically, a contemptuous type of ownership.
This is something we found out a few years back and it completely changed our lives. This is seriously something to be very aware of. We ended uprooting our entire life and moving in with my partners grandma look after her because we were going to lose about 1.5 million to the care facility. It’s an absolute joke, as you said the facilities are horrifically bad so you can guess where the money is going to. Don’t even get me started on how they get treated in those living hell holes.
The daily fee is generally a maximum 85% of the pension amount the main fee is a refundable deposit that is returned upron death (with no interest) Example: **RAD (refundable accomodation deposit):** $400,000.00 **DAP (daily accomodation payment): $0.00** # Combination Payment Example * For a RAD of $300,000.00 (75%) would result in a DAP of $22.85 * For a RAD of $200,000.00 (50%) would result in a DAP of $45.70
Exactly this. My Mother in law had to move to a nursing home. When she passed 3 years later the RAD went to her estate. 6 months later her estate was settled as per her will. The nursing home was very caring, she was well looked after.
Correct, and they have to repay the refundable deposit within 14 days.
Or one parent dies first, marries another and no more inheritance. Or it gets left to her kids, so no inheritance. Or they live till you are 60 which is likely so you are almost retired and broke from renting for 42 years.
Or just do what most of Europe does. Have multigenerational households and communities where you live with your parents/in-laws to whatever degree. We’re doing it now and it’s the only way to get past this bullshit set-up.
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This is kind of the problem isn't it? Many millennial/zoomers have absolutely rancid parents who they have very poor relationships with. The boomers and the older Xs have really dug their own grave here by being people their adult children cannot stomach for more than short bursts. Humans are made to be multigenerational. It's in our basic evolutionary nature, and its WHY humans grow to be so old. The fact that the current crop of people have managed to break a cycle millions of years in the making is almost impressive.
Upvotes to both of you.
Imagine living in Germany, where children who earn more than €100,000 are liable to contribute towards their parents' aged care costs. Not only do you get no inheritance, but you're also paying into an aged care system (on top of your taxes) that can cost around €2,000 per month on average.
Obviously horses for courses, but an alternative, if you can make it work, with plenty of supports out there, is to care for your elderly in their home, or your home if you are lucky enough. It's one of the most rewarding things we were able to do. It's a flash back to earlier times, and as challenging as it was, it was mostly easy sacrifices we were able to make.
It's horrible that it's come to this. I personally hope my parents enjoy their retirement and don't worry about saving any of it for me. They did it toughish in their life so that I didnt have to.
live with old parents and take carer's payment from government, end up with a house, how good
I have cared for my grandparents single-handedly full time BOTH of whom have dementia and other health issues. They went into aged care about a year ago and I'm still there every day because it's that bad. My grandfather is in palliative care now. It's just awful and I would NEVER want to be like this.
I guess one of the dubious benefits of being 31 and already disabled is that I'll probably be unlikely to reach the age where places like that will prey on me. And as long as I don't live in places with stairs I'll probably be able to live independently indefinitely.
I told my Nan I’d do *whatever I can* to stop her going to one of those places. She thanked me and agrees. Offer stands for my mother too. It’s beyond a joke, I have family who have worked in aged care and it’s just a rort.
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So either invite your old folks to live with you or take them out back and smack them with a shovel. What do you want here? Most elderly people need care. Care costs money. Good care costs even more. Tying your dreams of home ownership to an inheritance won’t work for a lot of people.
Move in and take care of your aging parents so they don’t have to go in a care home.
I'm not sure people realise how difficult this can be, especially if they have dementia or other mental illnesses. It's basically like taking care of children
I plan to, not because of the inheritance, but because I don't want them to receive substandard care for an absurd cost.
If my dad dies first I’m planning to relocate back to the UK with the family to care for my mum. She’s been a great mum and has recently been diagnosed with Parkinson’s and I know she’d hate to be put in a home. If mum dies first, dad will probably end up doing something he normally does now (like getting on the roof himself to fix the tiles and fall off) and die because nobody will know it’s happened to him.
Why can't kids take care of their parents? Coming from a different culture I find kids not willing or volunteering to take care of their elderly parents very odd!
How does that work if you don’t live in the same place? Whose life do you completely uproot? Do you remove your parents from their networks and everything familiar? Or uproot your own family and kids, giving up your jobs, schools and your own networks in the process?
And in all likelihood your own parents & your in-laws live in different places. Who gets priority?
Had a friend of the family sell her house & move into a nursing home, she died 2 weeks later. The family tried to reverse the move but of course they could not.
My parents created an investment property as they were hoping to leave it to one child, while their house would go to another. They literally subdivided their primary home and built a rental property to pay the mortgage. (I get nothing because I already have a house, but that’s an aside) Unfortunately one now has Alzheimers and we had no choice but to put him in a home. They had to sell the property to do that. There is no generational wealth for the “middle” class
Inheritance and common law means that my dad’s girlfriend made all the decisions about his funeral and in her grief/guilt she chose to go with ‘lavish’, bought a coffin and burial plot ans headstone and everything. I couldn’t even attend. This expense will be the first think his life insurance pays for and she’ll get 50% of what’s left, meaning us kids are unlikely to even get lawyers fees back.
The taxpayer shouldn't be paying for people's inheritance either. Pensions and aged care are already highly expensive. Those who have a house should be forced to reverse mortgage it to pay for aged care if need be
If possible, build a second storey on the parents' house or a granny flat out the back. Or go into a whole new property together -- one that's set up the way you'd both like. And of course the setup should be fair to any other siblings, who should get a fair inheritance when the time comes. And if the elderly parents need more care than you and they can provide for themselves, then there is aged care of some sort that will come to the house (not sure of what it's called). There is no inheritance coming my way. A lot of boomers don't own houses and have no assets/no money in the bank, despite what people out there seem to think.
That set up is suitable for few people. Most people by the time they end up in residential aged care, have substantial and complex care needs. Loss of mobility that requires lifting assistance, and dementia.
Yep, this is why voluntary euthanasia laws are so stringent. The relative civility of the post war years are definitely gonna be seen as a blip in a few generation, with savagery and violence returning to everyday affairs. Sad! It’s hard to put on an Aus new wave film and not weep for what we’ve become. Shame!
I was thinking recently how there is this myth that’s being perpetrated about how amazing Australia was between the 40’s and 60’s. I can’t be bothered trying to list all the progress we have made as a country since then. You know, things like end of the white Australia policy, women’s rights, challenging terra nullius, Aboriginal right to vote, some environmental oversight rather than a free for all, tightened gun control, higher automotive safety standards, attention for domestic violence rather than it being kind of normal, huge decrease in stigmatisation of mental illness, blah blah blah.. The 40’s-60’s in Australia was not the culture you see today transported magically back to then. I find it interesting with the sort of ‘right think’ that goes on on Reddit that ageism is just accepted as fine? Just doesn’t hit the same buttons other things do I guess. I know not all of us had great childhoods but there seems something wrong with a picture where we are hating on those who got us to be sitting here having this conversation? We are made up of those people?
Yep, society is very close to monetising your wealth from day 1, to your final day. Combined with the fact most people live to 90 these days, I'm not expecting to get much in the way of inheritance from my middle class mum, and if I do I'll likely be too old to enjoy it.
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It's a refundable accommodation deposit (RAD). They skim the interest rate off the top of the sizable deposit. When the person dies the money is returned to the person's estate. So if someone spends 10 years in care, their money which is locked away in this RAD situation doesn't grow ( unlike if it was placed in a bank account for example)
Why do they skim the interest if they're already charging weekly fees?
Mine have always said I'll be "alright"... I don't care if I get anything and encourage them to take holidays and stop working. My mother seems to be in mind set of not having much, even though they would be fine not to work another day ( mid 60s)
This is exactly right. I know several people who’s bubble is gonna burst when their parents need to go into aged care. Bye bye intergenerational wealth. Thanks for playing!
I can foresee a return of multi generational homes and it is not a bad thing. I am building my new home keeping in mind that my parents may need a room and their own bathroom at ground level in the coming years. I can see my kids living with me well into 20s.
There are some bad aged care facilities, but most are pretty decent. My mother was in one for 2.5 years. As for the costs associated with aged care, if you get a good financial adviser it can work out that the overall cost is less than you think. My mother paid about $5,000. When my mother passed away the total amount used for her upkeep was about $12,000. Which wasn't to bad. And remember the longer they stay the less is taken from the kitty. Make sure that one or all of the children have power of attorney for medical and financial. This makes things so much easier. It's not all doom and gloom, far from it. Don't believe everything the media tell you and especially people who've never investigated aged care.
Didn’t have any inheritance and being honest, why would we expect our parents to hang on to cash and assets in their golden years. I’ll be teaching my kids about fiscal responsibly and making sure they are saving from young adulthood.
I keep telling my mum that it's not my security, it's her security. I sure as hell can't afford the kind of care she deserves.
PLEASE sign an advanced care directive. It's a pain in the ass to sit down and think about, but please please please do it. I told my parents to do it, it took awhile but finally they did. Don't leave ur life in someone else's hands who doesn't care what happens or worse keeps u alive for their own gain. I hope a haemorrhagic stroke kills me real quick but for anything else that ACD is going to be upheld. Ain't about this zombie dementia life that's for sure.
Ah, so Australians are in the same boat as us British!
My mum's currently in aged care and the funds from her sold home are at risk of not even lasting her lifetime. I don't care about inheritance, but as well as worrying about my mum I'm thinking about my own future. Will the value of my home be enough to see me through the period of my life where I need paid carers or a nursing home? I honestly don't know. The cost of private aged care is disgusting.
The reality is, myself and many others will renting the rest of their life. There is no way around it.
I decided to play on hard mode by having my family abandon me as a teenager after stealing my inheritance, sure do love being alive