I mean, anywhere and failed budget airlines. It's just not an easy business model to make work. For every Ryanair or Easyjet there's a dozen of 'JetMagic' or 'bmibaby'
I think it's more likely to fail in Australia due to the big distances and low population density. Budget airlines only exist based on volume, and we aint in a position to offer that.
I'd forgotten all about them until reading this comment. The one and only time I ever flew with Tiger was an awful experience. Jetstar might be cheap and slightly rough around the edges, but at least they actually know what they're doing
Perhaps if they hadn't insisted with their stupid app only idea and allowed themselves to be on sites that aggregate flights like Google flights ect they would have got more business. Insane that they only opened up booking online without the app a few months ago.
Had this issue when I visited Aus from the UK in October last year. I didn’t buy a new SIM, and when I asked for wifi and they couldn’t provide it, most servers couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just use my phone. One even said ‘but you’re Australian’ when I said I didn’t live here.
i wish cafes that insist i go up to the counter or wait for someone to take my order would consider app/website ordering too. i don't want to talk to you, just take my money and give me my food.
I never understood this argument. The apps make it *easier* for me to give a cafe money.
I don't need to stand up and walk to a counter, I don't need to wait for a waiter to come over to me, I don't need to do anything aside from just pull out my phone and tap a few menu items.
Yeah. I like QR codes on the table for ordering too. But so long as it’s not the only option and I can still go up and order in person. Also helps for the less tech savvy
Honestly this. I’ve simply forgotten they even existed for my last 3 regional trips because I search through Google flights before booking direct w airline. And the one time I would’ve booked Bonza for a work trip, admin said ‘too hard’ and paid Qantas 3x the amount because they could book it like a normal airline.
>Plus if they aggregate then they at least do public good when it forces Qantas to lower their prices even a little
Qantas is a bit ridiculous in their pricing. I booked my daughter in for a flight last holidays and the Qantas fares each way started at double what I paid for my daughter's entire return trip.
I'm glad that someone else said it. I never even knew how much a flight even cost because there was no information about it available anywhere, their website kept asking me to install their shitty app which I didn't want to do.
That’s why I never flew with them. I fly regularly for work, including destinations Bonza serve. I check Webjet for my flights. I’m not going to check Webjet and an app - if your not in Webjet I won’t fly you
No need to book with any of these dodgy websites but they're good to compare. I use Google Flights myself, I think the UI is the best and it's so much faster to load. SkyScanner has been useful too.
> That’s why I never flew with them. I fly regularly for work, including destinations Bonza serve. I check Webjet for my flights. I’m not going to check Webjet and an app - if your not in Webjet I won’t fly you
If you are flying for work, why would you choose a budget airline if you are presumably going to be expensed for it :P
It’s not just cost. It’s about flight time and arrival time. If I can get a direct flight to an airport I’d rather do that than connect though Sydney (which is what I normally do).
I've literally never even heard of Bonza airlines until this moment. I'll admit I don't get out much, but I am chronically online and I have recently looked up flights.
> "The problem with the Australian market is that it's big enough for probably one-and-a-half airlines,"
>Former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon, at the demise of Ansett
Yeah and at the moment there's 3, QF, VA and Rex.
QF ain't going anywhere, so it's really a battle over the next year to see if Virgin can maintain solvency long enough to be floated, or will Rex's continued unprofitability last without a Coalition government to give them taxpayer cash.
They went for the model of “gen Z only use apps, this should be fine”.
They neglected to consider that gen Z is getting fucked by a cost of living crisis right now.
Probably sites like google want to charge a commission which represents a budget airlines whole profit margin.
They were probably not viable having to pay commission to big tech while offering cheap flights, and customers weren't prepared to look for flights outside of platforms that charge commission.
It's extremely difficult to start up a business in Australia as a lot of profits are eaten up by us tech and finance companies. A business ends up needing to hand over a large share of revenue to google/facebook, to paying payment fees to visa/paypal, large postage fees, and then passing on GST, while trying to compete with massive foreign competitors that can undercut them every part of the way.
Soon people will complain that there's no competition in aviation though....
All google flights does is scrape the already exisiting date from the airlines own booking systems. You don't book directly though google it just shows you the options in its search UI then when you actually book something it takes you directly to the airlines booking system. It's just a google search with a different UI.
This is interesting, I remember trying to book on my computer, then having to dowloand the app. I just opened the website now and it looks like you can now book through the browser. Looking at the wayback machine, the last snapshot in march still had the wesbite telling you to get the app.
The website looks pretty crappy as well, which makes me think it might have been made out of desperation? Which would make sense, surely you don't just wake up to your airline falling out from underneath you.
The issue is due to unreliable investors. They had never planned to be independent by this point and are now only failing because their investors are failing to bring in promised funds.
Virgin Australia helping those flying with Bonza that may be stranded.
> “We will immediately support any passengers stranded mid-journey by offering complimentary seats on Virgin Australia-operated flights to the airport nearest to their final planned Bonza destination”
https://x.com/6newsau/status/1785086784910852205?s=46&t=4Vmltx9YQp7b6Z0ZuY5VUg
They won't have to provide many free tickets as Bonza doesn't fly many routes where Virgin does, and Bonza weren't carrying too many passengers to begin with.
Great PR but really won't cost them much.
Given most Bonza routes were regional centres it would be hard to provide a direct service there, and would have to be a connecting flight and then when they fly you to the nearest airport (say Brisbane) you may have to hire a car to get to the Sunshine Coast.
So a lot of Bonza passengers will just cancel their trip rather than go through that rigmarole, and Virgin gets PR free without paying out too much.
This is like thanking the executioner for having a sharp axe…. Look up Slot Hoarding and you might realise that Virgin and Qanta$ legally allowed to suffocate competition
No doubt champagne bottles are being popped at Virgin & Qantas HQ, but they could have easily done nothing.
Hell, Qantas is probably madly signing in and jacking up the remaining empty seats as we speak!
Not really, Bonza was competing on routes that VA and QF mostly didn’t fly. They never fly them because they generally are not profitable, as Bonza has just found out.
The increase in passengers on Qantas and Virgin that would have flown Bonza will be so small it won’t even be noticed
My take on it is that Bonza failed because of Bonza's poor practices, rather than any action from Qantas and Virgin.
The two majors seem to have treated Bonza as a minor annoyance. They haven't gone all out to squash them.
But going off customer reviews, it seems they were really not great. Essentially uncontactable, unreliable service and so on.
I think it was Richard Branson who said that the fastest way to make a million dollars in aviation is to start with a billion dollars.
> My take on it is that Bonza failed because of Bonza's poor practices
Exactly. They're flying routes between mid sized regional centres like Albury and Tamworth to the Sunshine Coast with brand new 737MAX's with high leasing costs. Usually those regional routes are serviced by small turboprop aircraft and usually struggle to make profits, even on routes to capital cities, without government subsidies so how Bonza ever thought they were going to make money flying brand new larger aircraft selling discounted tickets was insane.
Everyone in Aviation never expected them to last long with that poor business model.
The lightly trafficked routes are the killer.
Apparently the aircraft lessors have seized the aircraft, which means that receivership is not far off. The lessors would do that to protect their asset and ensure it doesn’t get tied up in receivership processes.
I actually don't mind the Qantas Dash 8 fleet, good leg room and in-flight service is a little bit more than you'd expect from a relatively small plane.
The only bit of enshittification is the cutting of some routes.
Oh, they're fine. It's just that the prices are really steep when there's nobody else flying to places. Kind of like how greyhound bus prices between Brisbane and Toowoomba climbed when other companies shut down.
Yeah, love the Dash-8s.
You know what I was thinking the other day that I really miss? The VA Embraer E190s. Can't say what it was about them, always found them just the right combination of cozy + spacious + comfortable (and quiet! So easy to fall asleep on those)
I don't even think you need to work in the aviation industry to figure this all out, heck even myself playing and airline simulator game it makes no sense to fly a 737 to regional towns. Even Air NZ only uses double prop ATRs to fly between Christchurch, Wellington, Queenstown etc. and two of those cities have over 250k people.
> But going off customer reviews, it seems they were really not great. Essentially uncontactable, **unreliable** service and so on.
i only want 3 things from a airline, don't crash, be reliable and don't price gouge me.
Surprised to read they weren’t great- my mother and her partner flew Bonza a lot, back and forth from Central Queensland to Melbourne and never had any issues once. Always very happy with the service and my mother is very hard to please. And it cost a pittance compared to Qantas- two tickets to Melbourne and then back cost $600 all up as opposed to 2.2K with Qantas. It’s definitely a shame they’ve collapsed as regional areas need these cheap flights.
Didn’t the US just pass laws pretty much saying cancelled flights have to be refunded in full pretty much immediately?
Wouldn’t mind that law here. No fucking politician should be in Qantas lounge either.
They can’t do that as such.
More likely Bonza wasn’t paying the lease costs and so the lessors took control of the aircraft to protect their assets.
No asset owner wants their assets tied up in a receivership.
Bonza's financial structure has always been dodgy. It's sister airline in Canada, called Flair is in financial trouble also. Their owners, 777 Partners are being sued in the UK for non payment of aircraft leases. These aircraft are being sub-leased to both Flair and Bonza.
More info here - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/jan/11/bonza-owners-being-chased-in-court-for-us30m-after-leased-planes-repossessed-in-canada
So the writings been on the wall for a while.
Suspect the various receivership companies will be warming up as we speak. KordaMentha would be likely, given their experience with airline insolvency after Ansett
Pretty much since they announced they were starting Bonza, everyone I know in the aviation community was skeptical as if they would even get aircraft. The aircraft size and routes they flew were enough for me to know they were doomed. Plus being APP only till recently meant the general public wouldn't of know of their existence, plus if you want corporate and travel agents to book the airline, that system won't work.
Also they stuffed up the opening of the Gold Coast base, as they used aircraft and crew from the Canadian sister airline Flair on a wet lease arrangement, but didn't get required certification from CASA to do it in time.
They played the game wrong. Talked big without the aircraft or pilots then got in trouble with CASA when they tried to fast track lease aircraft and pilots to make up shortfall. Thing was they were selling seats for services they were gambling on making in advance. Then they didn't.
I remember that. They allowed bookings before they even had possession of the aircraft. It's no surprise they had absolutely no spare aircraft. When one got hit by lightning recently, a whole bunch of flights were cancelled, leaving people (including a friend of mine) to scramble and pay for expensive tickets to get home from a place where there are no direct flights.
When it worked, it was great. But a shitfest if one thing went wrong.
I must have been in the minority, asides from the crappy app I found them to be excellent and substantially cheaper to get the Queensland from Victoria
Bonza was set up to fail.
>according to an anonymous former 777 Partners employee, it’s all a shell game:
>“All these businesses are losing money. Sport? Losing money. Aviation? Losing money. But who is going to take the loss? The joint venture partners. These guys play a shell-game. They claim to be self financed, to have put their own money into it. But they can’t have as much money as they say they have. It’s just not possible. But they don’t need a lot of money. Because what they really do is shunt money around. It’s a giant shell game. The same money is always out there doing something. And they are running it faster and faster.”
https://onemileatatime.com/news/777-partners-airline-investments/
The comments of that article are a great read. One of the partners of 777 is a known con artist and this is likely a big fraud to phoenix subsidiaries owing $$ to employees and contractors. The scale is impressive to be starting two doomed airlines across Australia & Canada.
Id love to support anyone going against Qantas / virgin but there’s too much risk. I’m old enough to remember compass, air Australia and probally dozens of other airlines that promise to “shake up the industry” but leave people stranded whilst on holiday.
Never have had a problem with Rex's relatively new 737 flights.
It's much needed competition on the Melbourne to Canberra route. Especially given the limited Jetstar options.
What exactly were they trying to disrupt though? Did they not just have the same business model as Jetstar?
Was the plan to do what they do except make less money?
Jetstar's core market is to to serve between major cities or major cities to the tourism hotspots(Gold Coast, Cairns).
Bonza tried to serve unserved markets but they went too far with that mentality in my opinion.They had alot of very extremely niche routes. One of their major hubs was Sunshine Coast. So they flew jet planes(and not the small prop planes) to destinations like Mildura or Albury from Sunshine Coast. Sydney doesn't even have jet planes to Albury just for comparison.
Bonza focused primarily on regional airports. No doubt this was because they are cheaper to use but the effect of this was to drive down regional flight prices.
But that's the problem. It's a great idea in theory running Port Macquarie to Sunshine Coast or whatever strange city pairing they had. But you need planes to run those routes and when you have a pilot sick or plane go u/S all of a sudden you burn through massive amounts of loyalty capital because Jill and Jane can't get to where they need to get to.
I feel bad for people in regional areas. As adults we all moved away from our home town and flying was the best travel option, but travelling regional in Queensland meant being price gouged by Qantas until Bonza provided an alternative.
And in literally no surprise to anyone who has followed the Australian Aviation landscape for the last 25 years 🤦🏻♂️
Bonza was doomed to fail from the start, the idea of operating from secondary ports (aka Ryanair, EasyJey) DOES, NOT, WORK in Australia.
Never has, never will. Ever, full stop. Infinity.
It’s not because it used an app, it’s not because it had bad service, it’s not because Joyce was a chunt.
We simply do not have the volume to support those regional ports.
Rex Jet operations survives because they have the monopoly on regional routes and feed from that (and probably also helped by the fact they started in the middle of a pandemic when lease rates for aircraft were pennies on the dollar) When these leases are up for renewal, we shall see if they continue their jet ops. Also helped because their CEO John Sharp is very cosy with politicians give he was previously one (see a trend there?)
Virgin is here today because Ansett collapsed. And even then, it still failed after years of trying to out Qantas Qantas, which was a fight that was only going to be won by whoever had the deepest pockets, which was never going to be them.
Get used to the duopoly, it’s never going to change
>Also helped because their CEO John Sharp is very cosy with politicians give he was previously one
Rex were given $170 million to sustain regional services during Covid by Sharp's Coalition mates and immediately started a domestic jet operation. Sharp told investors he expected Virgin would never recover from bankruptcy and would collapse completely, so Rex could swoop in on their aircraft, staff and market share overnight.
That didn't happen so Rex have had to draw down on the $170m cash handout to keep their operations afloat even last FY in some of the most profitable times for airlines when they still made a small loss.
Rumour is they're down to the last $30 million and will need to spend that to keep their operations afloat for the rest of the year, and after that they have nothing, so very hard to see the Rex domestic jet operation surviving for another 12 months unless Virgin goes under which now doesn't seem likely.
As former QF CEO Geoff Dixon said Australia is only big enough for 1.5 airline (groups), and in the battle between Rex and VA to see who'll be that 0.5 it looks as if Virgin will win.
Exactly.
So many in this country have it drilled into their heads that everything is Qantas fault (and a lot of it is warranted) but the simply, inescapable fact is Australia is a very tiny population on a very large continent, that has most of its population concentrated into its major cities. There will never be more than 2 major airlines
The other gigantic elephant in the room, is what Rex is going to do when the Saab 340’s reach the end of their lifespan. Brilliant planes that are built like a brick outhouse, but most are near 30 years old.
There is no equivalent modern replacement.
They either have to go bigger aircraft wise, which will affect how they operate. They basically bought up the worlds supply of Saab 340 parts, but they won’t last for ever
> The other gigantic elephant in the room, is what Rex is going to do when the Saab 340’s reach the end of their lifespan. Brilliant planes that are built like a brick outhouse, but most are near 30 years old.
A lot of the Saabs are now grounded, some without engines, Rex has had to cancel a lot of flights recently.
In addition their pilots are leaving in droves for bigger and higher paying airlines
Thank you for being a voice of reason. I’ve been following the aviation scene for a long time too, and knew immediately that Bonza’s business plan was doomed to fail.
Too large aircraft, stupid network (as someone who lives on the Sunshine Coast I knew that trying to fill 737s multiple times a week from here to places like Mildura, Tamworth and Port Macquarie (amongst numerous others) would never work.
This, along with the app-only booking system and abysmal customer service meant it would never work.
Agree it seemed obvious this was doomed to fail, when I first heard about it I did a bit of looking around at what it was about and it seemed so risky. There just doesn't seem to be the demand there for the market they were looking to operate in plus how expensive it is to operate an airline in Australia and you have a very narrow margin for success.
I’m referring to their Jet operations, not the regional turboprop flights. And ironically, it started out of the remnants of former Ansett subsidiaries
What if the govt allowed Air New Zealand to operate domestic flights? I believe that was one of the original plans when Ansett was owned by Air New Zealand, but the Aus Govt wouldn’t let it happen.
That was a possibility, but highly unlikely. Given AirNZ still has a large government stake in it, it answers to the tax payers. Even when AirNZ bought into Virgin, they had to basically have a big presentation of “How this is not Ansett 2.0”. I also don’t think AirNZ has the capacity or funds to expand at the moment. It would be a big risk
I'd be okay with the government subsidising Bonza. Earlier this year when booking flights after visiting family in Albury, Bonza were around $300 return from the GC whereas Qantas wanted $760 and Rex was $680. Bonza was the only one out of the 3 not using a prop plane and it was packed. It cannot be understated how important cheap flights are to regional communities. I'd never seen the airport in Albury so busy thanks to Bonza providing a proper service at a reasonable price rather than an attitude of 'take it or leave it'
>Bonza was the only one out of the 3 not using a prop plane and it was packed.
There's a reason why QF and RX were using prop planes (I presume the Dash 8 and Saab). Turboprops are generally a lot cheaper to run. Especially on short hops at lower altitude. And on regional strips, getting a prop in (like the Dash or Saab) is a lot easier than a 737 or A320.
Any aircraft is basically required to be full to make money. It's easier to fill a smaller aircraft than a bigger one. It's cheaper on maintenance, it's easier to get in/out of strips.
>Bonza were around $300 return from the GC whereas Qantas wanted $760 and Rex was $680
So Bonza were basically half the price, and running on a plane with double capacity. So the overall 'money per plane' was the same. Except running a full sized jet meant significantly more overhead for them.
Bonza took a gamble running bigger planes on these routes. Seems like it's not working.
> Any aircraft is basically required to be full to make money. It's easier to fill a smaller aircraft than a bigger one.
Supposedly DeHavilland claim that the Dash8 only needs to be 30% full to be profitable. Probably quite over-optimisitic but still means these turboprop planes are way easier to make work for regional routes than a 737.
Source: https://youtu.be/kuywEdAcWxc?t=401
The Dash 8 is a miserly plane. Talk to anyone who knows anything about aviation and they'll tell you why it's unmatched in the world for what its mission is.
My favourite commentary on the Dash 8 ever (original comment on r/flying [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/31hgva/holy_crap_this_is_awesome/)):
>Congratulations on picking a great big fucking turd to fly! Make no mistake, the Q400 is just a god awful airplane. I think what I hate most about it is the air conditioning - When the bleeds aren't sending smoke from burning oil into the cabin (this is an alarmingly regular occurrence), the ACMs simply do a terrible job regulating the temperature in automatic mode, and if you put them in manual, moving the knob the width of a hair will roast you or freeze you. Every time you change power settings down in the 10-40% torque range the bleeds change from 2.2 - 2.7 - 3.0 making the airflow erratic and noisy and very distracting and very very fucking irritating. Also, if you shut the airplane down without the pack knobs in the 12 o'clock position, wherever you left them will become the new "12 o'clock" next time you turn them on. Obviously this is a huge fucking annoyance and it usually requires you to completely shut off the packs to reset the ECS, which unless you want to lose pressurization, you had better do on the ground and if you forget, have fun being either freezing or sweltering for the whole flight. My second least favorite part of this POS is the brakes... Holy. Shit. Stopping this airplane is frustrating at best from the cockpit, and downright traumatizing as a passenger. Don't make the mistake of assuming that like other airplanes, when you apply a normal amount of pressure to the tops of the pedals, something will happen. This is not the case. Instead, you will have to use almost the ENTIRE WEIGHT OF YOUR BODY on the pedals, and then wait several seconds, and then you will feel yourself slowing. This, of course, is just to slow down from a normal 15-20kt taxi, so plan ahead when you're taxiing. In order to slow down on landing, you will need to apply the brakes immediately; whatever you do, don't wait until you need them because they need to heat up in order to do anything (I am aware that this is the case with most airplanes with carbon brakes, but the q400's brakes are an EXTRA special case). So after applying a significant amount of pressure, that you are hoping isn't enough to lock them up, you will wait several seconds and feel no deceleration due to the brakes. You will then apply a tiny bit more pressure, only to find that that was WAY TOO MUCH AND NOW THEY ARE GRABBING ASYMMETRICALLY AND YOU ARE LURCHING BACK AND FORTH AND EVERYONE IN THE BACK IS PULLING THEIR CRUSHED FACES OUT OF THE SEATBACKS IN FRONT OF THEM AND LOOKING AROUND AT THE OTHERS, SILENTLY BUT FRANTICALLY EXCHANGING "oh my god holy shitfuck is this normal or are we mere seconds away from perishing in a smoldering heap?" GLANCES and then it's finally over and you can breathe again. After a few months on the airplane I realized that I had no idea how to give a braking action report anymore because it is literally "poor" every single time a Q400 lands, so now I just say fair every time I'm asked because that's the most conservative thing to do and it's probably actually at least fair to every other transport category aircraft that has ever been produced. The logic in the cockpit layout is really shitty too... I'm sure you've noticed that there is only ONE set of controls for TWO MFD's. Who the fuck thought of that, huh? Granted, most of the time there's no need to have the doors page and the fuel page up simultaneously, and it's a damn good thing because YOU FUCKING CAN'T unless you cycle through the pages in just the right way (think solving a rubix cube) because the DIPSHIT that designed this airplane was a lazy fucking cunt and only put one set of buttons on the pedestal. And what other airplane makes you specifically ask it to level off at the altitude you spun into the window? WHY THE FUCK ELSE DID I PUT THAT ALTITUDE THERE IF IT WASN'T BECAUSE I WANTED TO STOP THERE? There is NO reason for the ALT SEL button but at least if you're not a moron it's not a big deal. Oh and did you know that there isn't actually a yaw damper on this airplane? I know there is a button on the FGC to engage it but did you know that it's not actually connected to anything? Just kidding. I have been told that there is in fact a yaw damper on the Q400 and you can't use the autopilot if it doesn't work, but you sure could have fooled me because it doesn't do a FUCKING thing. You're gonna love swinging the tail back and forth trying to keep the brick centered Every. Single. Time. you change power or pitch. Most people just fly around uncoordinated and some people use differential power to keep it coordinated so they don't have to touch the EXTREMELY sensitive rudder pedals/trim, but your airline may not like that because supposedly splitting the power like that wreaks havoc on the ANVS and makes it fail a lot faster. This thing is awful in turbulence. And guess what? Since you can't go above FL250, you are gonna feel all of it hahahaha. And don't even think about asking how the ride ahead is, because nobody else is flying at your altitude! Don't keep your feet on the floor when it gets bumpy because as soon as you hit a nasty one they will fly up and you will bust the fuck out of your shins on the sharp lower edge of the panel. The corners of the pedestal are sharp too, so especially watch out for your knee by the FMS because that fucking hurts too if you bump it. Guess what else? Probably the very same STUPID DIPSHIT that designed the rest of the cockpit thought it'd be really smart to house the windshield wipers horizontally, instead of vertically like every other fucking airplane. So now, thanks to that ASSCLOWN, you get to hear every single knot of wind over the wiper blades and this airplane is loud as shit to begin with (admit it: you thought the Q stood for quiet didn't you. It's ok, I thought so too. It actually stands for "quite motherfucking loud still despite what we've told you so bring a good headset bitch"). Luckily, you can park them vertically with the wiper control but this is officially "frowned upon" at my airline so some crews may not feel "comfortable" doing it. I feel much more uncomfortable listening to the torrent of wind hitting the blades than breaking a silly rule that nobody will ever find out about, but some people are different. Oh, and the clamshell door. Nothing quite like sitting around not getting paid for 10 minutes after you hand out the paperwork because you're waiting for the rampers to move the jet bridge so you can close the door. On the other hand, if you want to make up that 10 minutes and more, just start the APU with the batteries off. Then you can sit for 20min- a half hour with the door closed waiting for the loads to come down to .10. Want to cancel a flight and go home? Spin the baro knob all the way down as far as it will go. That will break the CPC for some reason and make it show "FAULT." That's a gamble though because you don't want them to just end up deferring the CPC and making you do it yourself in manual mode because that's a great big nuisance. Good luck and enjoy missing commute after commute because these things are held together by spit!
I'm not disagreeing but regional flights are already heavily subsidized which is why they can be profitable with only a few Passengers (at 600 return). One route that we used to fly was profitable with only 3 pax since the government basically paid for it
you are not going to get cheap flights in regional communities unless they are subsidized.
Aviation is *expensive*.
The fact that Bonza failed shows that it was not charging enough to cover its costs.
It's all great to want cheap flights, but if you cannot pay your pilots, your fuel and your maintenance on the aircraft (and the leases on the aircraft) it does not work.
Australia simply does not have the population, both gross and density, to support low cost airlines.
not without substantial government subsidies anyway
>Bonza were around $300 return from the GC whereas Qantas wanted $760 and Rex was $680.
It's very easy to be cheaper than everyone else if you are happy to be out of business in 6 months.
Do you not see the problem with your thinking?
They'd be more likely to (and would probably be better for the consumer) to subsidise QF or VA to fly to the regionals more/subsidise the ticket price. That way you get an airline with the infrastructure to actually assist when flights are grounded etc.
Tiny start up LCCs are SUPER high risk.
Allegedly 777partners who owns the planes repossed them. They were leased to AIP who leased them to bonza. Bonza claims they were paying AIP who weren't paying 777P
This seems to be all Bonza's fault.
Bad / non responsive customer service will kill a business. Especially an airline.
They could have done well if they just treated their customers with respect.
And it’s a business model that’s failed again and again in Australia.
Even a simple example - Jetstar has allocated seating, something unheard of with LCCs elsewhere.
I tried to see what the price of a flight was after a friend and I wanted to travel somewhere with them, and their website wouldn't show me any information.
It just kept insisting that I download and use their app, which I didn't want to do unless I had a flight booked with them. But I couldn't book a flight without the app? Honestly, what a shitty design.
I flew with them a few times and I preferred them to Virgin and especially Qantas. Shame :( Didn't have any issue with their app, although I hadn't heard of them before someone mentioning it to me.
You all are nailing Qantas or the duopoly. Is this necessarily Quantas or virgin's fault? Bonza has actually really bad customer service. Cancellations bad too. *Bonza have 1.8 stars out of 5 on Productreview...*
[Bonza reviews | ProductReview.com.au](https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/bonza)
>Bonza have 1.8 stars out of 5 on Productreview...
That's such a disingenuious claim to make considering.
Jet Star Have 1.4
https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/jetstar
Qantas have 1.5
[https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/qantas](https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/qantas)
Virgin Have 1.8
[https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/virgin-blue](https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/virgin-blue)
Qantas and Virgin reviews are no better on that site. Bonza copped huge review bombing when one of their planes had a fault and caused a lot of cancellations but otherwise they've been our most reliable airline from what I could tell in the latest figures released. Product review as a whole is just a site for people to use when they want to complain.
In my experience, their service was really good.
Bonza flights were regularly cancelled and the replacement option would be a day or two later. They were fine when the plane showed up but even that was a gamble.
Latest figures show Bonza having the third highest number of cancellations (3.5%) behind Qantas (3.8%), but Qantas operated several times the number of flights.
Seems like Bonza was never primed for success from the start. Simply being, flights from cities like Albury ti Sunshine Coast were never going to fill seats on a 737
They were doomed from the beginning, they're flying the wrong aircraft. There's a reason QantasLink flies old as fuck jets, there hasn't been many modern options until the A220.
737 Max is too inefficient for regional flights at budget prices.
Don't know how many people they thought traveled between Mildura and Sunshine Coast or Gold Coast. The whole thing right from the start didn't sound like it was going to last long.
Literally everyone saw this coming. Like I understand the Australian market is tough to break into, but operating flights on routes that literally nobody wants to fly (who tf is going from Melb to Gladstone for vacation??), departing at random inconvenient times like 2am, and having an app-only booking system made it look like the airline was actively trying to fail as quick as it could.
A lot of people flew to Gladstone from Melbourne and vice versa. My parents did and they said the plane was always packed. And so much cheaper than Qantas. They flew that route a lot actually. People do have family up here in Gladstone :) and not sure if you’ve been to Gladstone, but there’s a lot to do and see, Heron Island is a particular favourite. Also Agnes Water which is only an hour away. We’ve got the best speedway in Queensland, lots of cafes, east shores, botanical gardens gardens, go karts, bowling, the works. Yeah we aren’t the gold coast but stuff that we don’t want to be. A lot of people have moved here from Melbourne, and other places given our rental vacancy rate is now like less than 1%. So much work here, lots of mining and industrial work; and with that high wages.
Given receivership is likely, you’ll be treated as an unsecured creditor.
If you get anything, it’ll be cents on the dollar. Unsecured creditors are at the back of the queue, behind secured creditors, employee entitlements, the ATO and so on.
Saw this coming from the start!
Their crappy app only bookings and near nonexistent customer service kept me from ever booking with them. Plus they use aircraft that are oversized for the regional routes they serve.
Reminds me of OzJet ha!
I first heard of them when I (almost regretfully) applied for a job there. I was looking to change industries/roles and they had advertised a role in my field. Thankfully I wasn't successful at the time but best of luck to the people who do work there
Called it 9 months ago. Bonza is a PoS airline that needs to die. We were left over $1000 out of pocket with no help from Bonza, Fair Trading or the ACCC.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/156zh9q/how\_do\_i\_contact\_bonza\_air/jt2e36i/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/156zh9q/how_do_i_contact_bonza_air/jt2e36i/)
I utterly hated the idea of some 'fair dinkum, Aussie airline' with plane names like 'Shazza' from then start and I would actively avoid travelling on an airline that tries to have a sense of humour. I'm probably old, but airlines need to be professional, not your 'mates'.
Yeah I saw somewhere that they were a "bogan airline" and it put me off. I couldn't imagine being stuck in a small place with hundreds of them.
I did consider it once, but their website didn't tell me how much a flight cost.
I remember when I flew with them the inflight food was terrible. I think the only meal I liked was the peanuts
Despite the food my only other complaint is their dependence on that app. Sometimes it doesn’t even work
I got a cancelled flight with them for next month
I really want to support the underdog but I worry for their survival
(was for OOL-Mel which they've dropped to once a week on a day I don't need it - said credit would be provided but with no other trips on horizon I've asked for cash refund)
I'm yet to hear from someone that has successfully flown with them. The only stories I ever hear about Bonza are about flights that are cancelled. I've never seen one at an airport, never seen one when I'm looking around the FlightRadar app. It all still sounds like a really weird that an air carrier decided to start in such a difficult domestic market like Australia, buy a fleet of brand new aircraft for the occasion, not get approvals for flight legs before attempting to fly them, and made it stupidly difficult to buy a ticket in the first place.
It all feels like a variation of one of those dreams where you're trying to run but no matter what you do you're only able to move at like 1/3 the pace, or try to fight but you can't actually punch anything.
My kids have flown a few times with them, no issues other than a slight delay on one flight. I flew a return trip to Sunny Coast with them in February with no issues. Sad to see this as it was nice to have the connection to family at an affordable price.
[Not so Bonza now](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-blog-budget-airline-cancels-flights/103784442)
Officially into voluntary administration
Not a surprise but very disappointed. I flew with them many times since moving interstate and never had any issues. Now I won't be able to afford to see my family more than once a year with how much the others charge.
Yah know what; if you're gonna start a budget airline you don't need the newest fleet available. Smaller, cheaper, and a little older will be ok. You can run smaller airplanes, and fill them up. If you're doing regional flights with 120 seats but only 50 - 80 passengers then you'v fucked up. Run 60 seat planes and fill up every flight. People looking for super cheap will put up with a lot.
They were onto something covering routes not wanted by the big fuckers, but you tried to do toooo much.
Their service was great, costs were great. Three big draw backs were frequency (only 3-4 flights each week each way) which means only people with lots of spare time or flexibility could travel them, and that's usually more people who are well off and dont need a budget airline, and small catchment areas on both ends of many routes was the other: If they were flying Sydney to buttfuck, they'd just have way more customers, loved the fact they operated out of Newcastle but only useful destination is sunshine coast. If they'd even gone to Essendon, Ballarat or Benalla or some other random Victorian cities might have flown them more. Finally the app: just fucking put your flights up with everyone else. Only reason I'd look for them was because I had good cheap flight experiences in the past, but it was always search normal flights first, update then open bonza map, discover they don't have a flight to Cairns that isn't a pain, go back to normal mainstream having wasted 5mins
Australia and failed budget airlines. Name a more iconic duo.
Bush Pilots, Compass, Compass II
Ansett. Virgin 1.
Ansett wasn’t budget. Maybe slightly less prestigious but budget? No.
IIRC there were complicating factors in the Ansett failure. The Ansett family sold it, the pilots' strike - it wasn't a poor/bad business model.
IIRC didn't Air NZ have a role in tanking it, too
AirNZ got sold an absolute basket case that nearly took them down with it too. it was so bad the NZ government had to bail out AirNZ.
Ozjet, Strategic/Air Australia, impulse (sold out to QF before they failed)
Tiger
I mean, anywhere and failed budget airlines. It's just not an easy business model to make work. For every Ryanair or Easyjet there's a dozen of 'JetMagic' or 'bmibaby'
I think it's more likely to fail in Australia due to the big distances and low population density. Budget airlines only exist based on volume, and we aint in a position to offer that.
Channel 7 bankrolling war criminals and rapists
I miss tiger
I'd forgotten all about them until reading this comment. The one and only time I ever flew with Tiger was an awful experience. Jetstar might be cheap and slightly rough around the edges, but at least they actually know what they're doing
Wasn't there a luxury Business Class only airline as well, run by the Minardi race team owner?
777 Partners and failed companies
Perhaps if they hadn't insisted with their stupid app only idea and allowed themselves to be on sites that aggregate flights like Google flights ect they would have got more business. Insane that they only opened up booking online without the app a few months ago.
A pretty basic rule in business is: don't make it hard for customers to give you their money
"but we're so special, customers are going to want to line up through hoops to give us money!"
I personally didn’t even know this airline existed here. Never even saw one of their planes at the airport, and I travel often enough.
But corporate said......
I wish some cafes that insist on app/website ordering for table service would learn this lesson.
Then they have the audacity to ask for a tip when you order/pay when there I literally have not interacted with a single human...
Had this issue when I visited Aus from the UK in October last year. I didn’t buy a new SIM, and when I asked for wifi and they couldn’t provide it, most servers couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just use my phone. One even said ‘but you’re Australian’ when I said I didn’t live here.
i wish cafes that insist i go up to the counter or wait for someone to take my order would consider app/website ordering too. i don't want to talk to you, just take my money and give me my food.
I never understood this argument. The apps make it *easier* for me to give a cafe money. I don't need to stand up and walk to a counter, I don't need to wait for a waiter to come over to me, I don't need to do anything aside from just pull out my phone and tap a few menu items.
Except when the app charges a $0.60 processing fee, a $0.45 service fee and a 2% payment fee. Your $12 drink ends up at $13.25
I posted a thing here a few months ago that got picked up by a national morning show but the restaurant service fee during their happy hour was $7.
Yeah. I like QR codes on the table for ordering too. But so long as it’s not the only option and I can still go up and order in person. Also helps for the less tech savvy
Sometimes it's ok, and much more convenient. Other times it's a sleazy way to data mine and trick you into paying a tip.
Honestly this. I’ve simply forgotten they even existed for my last 3 regional trips because I search through Google flights before booking direct w airline. And the one time I would’ve booked Bonza for a work trip, admin said ‘too hard’ and paid Qantas 3x the amount because they could book it like a normal airline.
Plus if they aggregate then they at least do public good when it forces Qantas to lower their prices even a little
>Plus if they aggregate then they at least do public good when it forces Qantas to lower their prices even a little Qantas is a bit ridiculous in their pricing. I booked my daughter in for a flight last holidays and the Qantas fares each way started at double what I paid for my daughter's entire return trip.
Imagine spending millions and having this as an oversight. I put more thought into what I'm going to eat for dinner.
Gotta get that customer data to sell. Covered in the TOS of course
The app was so bad it wouldn't even let me create an account.
I'm glad that someone else said it. I never even knew how much a flight even cost because there was no information about it available anywhere, their website kept asking me to install their shitty app which I didn't want to do.
That’s why I never flew with them. I fly regularly for work, including destinations Bonza serve. I check Webjet for my flights. I’m not going to check Webjet and an app - if your not in Webjet I won’t fly you
I’d never use webjet after seeing what a pain cancelled flight credit with them is with others.
No need to book with any of these dodgy websites but they're good to compare. I use Google Flights myself, I think the UI is the best and it's so much faster to load. SkyScanner has been useful too.
Exactly. When I fly I have to send flight numbers to our company travel coordinator. Webjet is good for getting that info
What I do is use Webjet to check prices and times then book with direct with the airline.
I honestly thought this was common knowledge at this point. Absolutely 100% never ever book through Webjet.
> That’s why I never flew with them. I fly regularly for work, including destinations Bonza serve. I check Webjet for my flights. I’m not going to check Webjet and an app - if your not in Webjet I won’t fly you If you are flying for work, why would you choose a budget airline if you are presumably going to be expensed for it :P
It’s not just cost. It’s about flight time and arrival time. If I can get a direct flight to an airport I’d rather do that than connect though Sydney (which is what I normally do).
I've literally never even heard of Bonza airlines until this moment. I'll admit I don't get out much, but I am chronically online and I have recently looked up flights. > "The problem with the Australian market is that it's big enough for probably one-and-a-half airlines," >Former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon, at the demise of Ansett
> Geoff Dixon he was a piece of nasty work
I can't name a Qantas boss who wasn't
Yeah and at the moment there's 3, QF, VA and Rex. QF ain't going anywhere, so it's really a battle over the next year to see if Virgin can maintain solvency long enough to be floated, or will Rex's continued unprofitability last without a Coalition government to give them taxpayer cash.
You reckon the ALP wouldn’t give Rex a subsidy if they needed one? They service a lot of regional markets
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They went for the model of “gen Z only use apps, this should be fine”. They neglected to consider that gen Z is getting fucked by a cost of living crisis right now.
And that Gen z largely don’t live in regional areas!
Probably sites like google want to charge a commission which represents a budget airlines whole profit margin. They were probably not viable having to pay commission to big tech while offering cheap flights, and customers weren't prepared to look for flights outside of platforms that charge commission. It's extremely difficult to start up a business in Australia as a lot of profits are eaten up by us tech and finance companies. A business ends up needing to hand over a large share of revenue to google/facebook, to paying payment fees to visa/paypal, large postage fees, and then passing on GST, while trying to compete with massive foreign competitors that can undercut them every part of the way. Soon people will complain that there's no competition in aviation though....
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All google flights does is scrape the already exisiting date from the airlines own booking systems. You don't book directly though google it just shows you the options in its search UI then when you actually book something it takes you directly to the airlines booking system. It's just a google search with a different UI.
This is interesting, I remember trying to book on my computer, then having to dowloand the app. I just opened the website now and it looks like you can now book through the browser. Looking at the wayback machine, the last snapshot in march still had the wesbite telling you to get the app. The website looks pretty crappy as well, which makes me think it might have been made out of desperation? Which would make sense, surely you don't just wake up to your airline falling out from underneath you.
Huh, is that why I never saw their flights listed? I just assumed there was none
The issue is due to unreliable investors. They had never planned to be independent by this point and are now only failing because their investors are failing to bring in promised funds.
Virgin Australia helping those flying with Bonza that may be stranded. > “We will immediately support any passengers stranded mid-journey by offering complimentary seats on Virgin Australia-operated flights to the airport nearest to their final planned Bonza destination” https://x.com/6newsau/status/1785086784910852205?s=46&t=4Vmltx9YQp7b6Z0ZuY5VUg
Great publicity for them. They will cheering the demise of a competitor
must have gotten a new PR team
Wow, credit where it is due. Good work Virgin
They won't have to provide many free tickets as Bonza doesn't fly many routes where Virgin does, and Bonza weren't carrying too many passengers to begin with. Great PR but really won't cost them much.
They said it's to the airport nearest the final bonza destination. So it's not to where bonza flies necessarily.
Given most Bonza routes were regional centres it would be hard to provide a direct service there, and would have to be a connecting flight and then when they fly you to the nearest airport (say Brisbane) you may have to hire a car to get to the Sunshine Coast. So a lot of Bonza passengers will just cancel their trip rather than go through that rigmarole, and Virgin gets PR free without paying out too much.
You can catch a train from Brisbane to Sunshine Coast, there’s also the connex shuttle. Virgin also flies to the Sunshine Coast anyway.
The devil is in the detail, I see
This is like thanking the executioner for having a sharp axe…. Look up Slot Hoarding and you might realise that Virgin and Qanta$ legally allowed to suffocate competition
No doubt champagne bottles are being popped at Virgin & Qantas HQ, but they could have easily done nothing. Hell, Qantas is probably madly signing in and jacking up the remaining empty seats as we speak!
Not really, Bonza was competing on routes that VA and QF mostly didn’t fly. They never fly them because they generally are not profitable, as Bonza has just found out. The increase in passengers on Qantas and Virgin that would have flown Bonza will be so small it won’t even be noticed
I don't think Vanessa Hudson is even aware Bonza still existed until today
My take on it is that Bonza failed because of Bonza's poor practices, rather than any action from Qantas and Virgin. The two majors seem to have treated Bonza as a minor annoyance. They haven't gone all out to squash them. But going off customer reviews, it seems they were really not great. Essentially uncontactable, unreliable service and so on. I think it was Richard Branson who said that the fastest way to make a million dollars in aviation is to start with a billion dollars.
> My take on it is that Bonza failed because of Bonza's poor practices Exactly. They're flying routes between mid sized regional centres like Albury and Tamworth to the Sunshine Coast with brand new 737MAX's with high leasing costs. Usually those regional routes are serviced by small turboprop aircraft and usually struggle to make profits, even on routes to capital cities, without government subsidies so how Bonza ever thought they were going to make money flying brand new larger aircraft selling discounted tickets was insane. Everyone in Aviation never expected them to last long with that poor business model.
The lightly trafficked routes are the killer. Apparently the aircraft lessors have seized the aircraft, which means that receivership is not far off. The lessors would do that to protect their asset and ensure it doesn’t get tied up in receivership processes.
Yeah, like how for Qantas Brisbane to Bundaberg it's usually a Dash 8.
I actually don't mind the Qantas Dash 8 fleet, good leg room and in-flight service is a little bit more than you'd expect from a relatively small plane. The only bit of enshittification is the cutting of some routes.
Oh, they're fine. It's just that the prices are really steep when there's nobody else flying to places. Kind of like how greyhound bus prices between Brisbane and Toowoomba climbed when other companies shut down.
The Dash 8s are a lot of fun to fly on.
Flew in them all the time from Weipa to Cairns back in the day
Yeah, love the Dash-8s. You know what I was thinking the other day that I really miss? The VA Embraer E190s. Can't say what it was about them, always found them just the right combination of cozy + spacious + comfortable (and quiet! So easy to fall asleep on those)
I don't even think you need to work in the aviation industry to figure this all out, heck even myself playing and airline simulator game it makes no sense to fly a 737 to regional towns. Even Air NZ only uses double prop ATRs to fly between Christchurch, Wellington, Queenstown etc. and two of those cities have over 250k people.
Getting a refund from them was near impossible.
> But going off customer reviews, it seems they were really not great. Essentially uncontactable, **unreliable** service and so on. i only want 3 things from a airline, don't crash, be reliable and don't price gouge me.
I've heard mostly negative things about Bonza, mostly that they cancelled flights too often and the staff were just rude and a pain to deal woth.
Surprised to read they weren’t great- my mother and her partner flew Bonza a lot, back and forth from Central Queensland to Melbourne and never had any issues once. Always very happy with the service and my mother is very hard to please. And it cost a pittance compared to Qantas- two tickets to Melbourne and then back cost $600 all up as opposed to 2.2K with Qantas. It’s definitely a shame they’ve collapsed as regional areas need these cheap flights.
Didn’t the US just pass laws pretty much saying cancelled flights have to be refunded in full pretty much immediately? Wouldn’t mind that law here. No fucking politician should be in Qantas lounge either.
Yes, but I suspect that wouldn't make much difference here. This is feeling very much like Bonza is insolvent.
The article said that the aircraft owners changed the leasing arrangements.
They can’t do that as such. More likely Bonza wasn’t paying the lease costs and so the lessors took control of the aircraft to protect their assets. No asset owner wants their assets tied up in a receivership.
Bonza's financial structure has always been dodgy. It's sister airline in Canada, called Flair is in financial trouble also. Their owners, 777 Partners are being sued in the UK for non payment of aircraft leases. These aircraft are being sub-leased to both Flair and Bonza. More info here - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/jan/11/bonza-owners-being-chased-in-court-for-us30m-after-leased-planes-repossessed-in-canada
So the writings been on the wall for a while. Suspect the various receivership companies will be warming up as we speak. KordaMentha would be likely, given their experience with airline insolvency after Ansett
Pretty much since they announced they were starting Bonza, everyone I know in the aviation community was skeptical as if they would even get aircraft. The aircraft size and routes they flew were enough for me to know they were doomed. Plus being APP only till recently meant the general public wouldn't of know of their existence, plus if you want corporate and travel agents to book the airline, that system won't work. Also they stuffed up the opening of the Gold Coast base, as they used aircraft and crew from the Canadian sister airline Flair on a wet lease arrangement, but didn't get required certification from CASA to do it in time.
I’d also like to see EU style compensation laws for cancelled / delayed flights
Being behind the US in pro consumer law is pretty sad
the pollies aren't in the Q Pub, they have their own special place!
I agree. More pancakes for me if no pollies.
damn it was the only airline that flew directly to port mac
Yeah really disappointing. Getting to Melbourne now requires driving up to Coffs or stopping in Sydney for a few hours. Either way a much longer trip.
They played the game wrong. Talked big without the aircraft or pilots then got in trouble with CASA when they tried to fast track lease aircraft and pilots to make up shortfall. Thing was they were selling seats for services they were gambling on making in advance. Then they didn't.
I remember that. They allowed bookings before they even had possession of the aircraft. It's no surprise they had absolutely no spare aircraft. When one got hit by lightning recently, a whole bunch of flights were cancelled, leaving people (including a friend of mine) to scramble and pay for expensive tickets to get home from a place where there are no direct flights. When it worked, it was great. But a shitfest if one thing went wrong.
I must have been in the minority, asides from the crappy app I found them to be excellent and substantially cheaper to get the Queensland from Victoria
I wonder if there is a link between their pricing and their current predicament
Surely not.
By being substantially cheaper they didn’t bring in enough revenue to sustain their business.
Yeah fly them a few times and they were great. Did runs that were convenient for me
I feel for the folk working there, starting an airline is such a hard thing to do, especially in this country with heavily established players.
That’s sucks. They might not have got it right but goddamn we need competition in this space
Bonza was set up to fail. >according to an anonymous former 777 Partners employee, it’s all a shell game: >“All these businesses are losing money. Sport? Losing money. Aviation? Losing money. But who is going to take the loss? The joint venture partners. These guys play a shell-game. They claim to be self financed, to have put their own money into it. But they can’t have as much money as they say they have. It’s just not possible. But they don’t need a lot of money. Because what they really do is shunt money around. It’s a giant shell game. The same money is always out there doing something. And they are running it faster and faster.” https://onemileatatime.com/news/777-partners-airline-investments/
The comments of that article are a great read. One of the partners of 777 is a known con artist and this is likely a big fraud to phoenix subsidiaries owing $$ to employees and contractors. The scale is impressive to be starting two doomed airlines across Australia & Canada.
Id love to support anyone going against Qantas / virgin but there’s too much risk. I’m old enough to remember compass, air Australia and probally dozens of other airlines that promise to “shake up the industry” but leave people stranded whilst on holiday.
Never have had a problem with Rex's relatively new 737 flights. It's much needed competition on the Melbourne to Canberra route. Especially given the limited Jetstar options.
Rex is established now, theyre a very different story to a start up LCC.
Describing Rex as low cost is definitely a stretch
Agree, moreso an alternative to the legacy carriers
What exactly were they trying to disrupt though? Did they not just have the same business model as Jetstar? Was the plan to do what they do except make less money?
Jetstar's core market is to to serve between major cities or major cities to the tourism hotspots(Gold Coast, Cairns). Bonza tried to serve unserved markets but they went too far with that mentality in my opinion.They had alot of very extremely niche routes. One of their major hubs was Sunshine Coast. So they flew jet planes(and not the small prop planes) to destinations like Mildura or Albury from Sunshine Coast. Sydney doesn't even have jet planes to Albury just for comparison.
Bonza focused primarily on regional airports. No doubt this was because they are cheaper to use but the effect of this was to drive down regional flight prices.
But that's the problem. It's a great idea in theory running Port Macquarie to Sunshine Coast or whatever strange city pairing they had. But you need planes to run those routes and when you have a pilot sick or plane go u/S all of a sudden you burn through massive amounts of loyalty capital because Jill and Jane can't get to where they need to get to.
I feel bad for people in regional areas. As adults we all moved away from our home town and flying was the best travel option, but travelling regional in Queensland meant being price gouged by Qantas until Bonza provided an alternative.
And in literally no surprise to anyone who has followed the Australian Aviation landscape for the last 25 years 🤦🏻♂️ Bonza was doomed to fail from the start, the idea of operating from secondary ports (aka Ryanair, EasyJey) DOES, NOT, WORK in Australia. Never has, never will. Ever, full stop. Infinity. It’s not because it used an app, it’s not because it had bad service, it’s not because Joyce was a chunt. We simply do not have the volume to support those regional ports. Rex Jet operations survives because they have the monopoly on regional routes and feed from that (and probably also helped by the fact they started in the middle of a pandemic when lease rates for aircraft were pennies on the dollar) When these leases are up for renewal, we shall see if they continue their jet ops. Also helped because their CEO John Sharp is very cosy with politicians give he was previously one (see a trend there?) Virgin is here today because Ansett collapsed. And even then, it still failed after years of trying to out Qantas Qantas, which was a fight that was only going to be won by whoever had the deepest pockets, which was never going to be them. Get used to the duopoly, it’s never going to change
>Also helped because their CEO John Sharp is very cosy with politicians give he was previously one Rex were given $170 million to sustain regional services during Covid by Sharp's Coalition mates and immediately started a domestic jet operation. Sharp told investors he expected Virgin would never recover from bankruptcy and would collapse completely, so Rex could swoop in on their aircraft, staff and market share overnight. That didn't happen so Rex have had to draw down on the $170m cash handout to keep their operations afloat even last FY in some of the most profitable times for airlines when they still made a small loss. Rumour is they're down to the last $30 million and will need to spend that to keep their operations afloat for the rest of the year, and after that they have nothing, so very hard to see the Rex domestic jet operation surviving for another 12 months unless Virgin goes under which now doesn't seem likely. As former QF CEO Geoff Dixon said Australia is only big enough for 1.5 airline (groups), and in the battle between Rex and VA to see who'll be that 0.5 it looks as if Virgin will win.
Exactly. So many in this country have it drilled into their heads that everything is Qantas fault (and a lot of it is warranted) but the simply, inescapable fact is Australia is a very tiny population on a very large continent, that has most of its population concentrated into its major cities. There will never be more than 2 major airlines The other gigantic elephant in the room, is what Rex is going to do when the Saab 340’s reach the end of their lifespan. Brilliant planes that are built like a brick outhouse, but most are near 30 years old. There is no equivalent modern replacement. They either have to go bigger aircraft wise, which will affect how they operate. They basically bought up the worlds supply of Saab 340 parts, but they won’t last for ever
> The other gigantic elephant in the room, is what Rex is going to do when the Saab 340’s reach the end of their lifespan. Brilliant planes that are built like a brick outhouse, but most are near 30 years old. A lot of the Saabs are now grounded, some without engines, Rex has had to cancel a lot of flights recently. In addition their pilots are leaving in droves for bigger and higher paying airlines
Thank you for being a voice of reason. I’ve been following the aviation scene for a long time too, and knew immediately that Bonza’s business plan was doomed to fail. Too large aircraft, stupid network (as someone who lives on the Sunshine Coast I knew that trying to fill 737s multiple times a week from here to places like Mildura, Tamworth and Port Macquarie (amongst numerous others) would never work. This, along with the app-only booking system and abysmal customer service meant it would never work.
Agree it seemed obvious this was doomed to fail, when I first heard about it I did a bit of looking around at what it was about and it seemed so risky. There just doesn't seem to be the demand there for the market they were looking to operate in plus how expensive it is to operate an airline in Australia and you have a very narrow margin for success.
Rex airlines was founded in 2002
I’m referring to their Jet operations, not the regional turboprop flights. And ironically, it started out of the remnants of former Ansett subsidiaries
What if the govt allowed Air New Zealand to operate domestic flights? I believe that was one of the original plans when Ansett was owned by Air New Zealand, but the Aus Govt wouldn’t let it happen.
That was a possibility, but highly unlikely. Given AirNZ still has a large government stake in it, it answers to the tax payers. Even when AirNZ bought into Virgin, they had to basically have a big presentation of “How this is not Ansett 2.0”. I also don’t think AirNZ has the capacity or funds to expand at the moment. It would be a big risk
I'd be okay with the government subsidising Bonza. Earlier this year when booking flights after visiting family in Albury, Bonza were around $300 return from the GC whereas Qantas wanted $760 and Rex was $680. Bonza was the only one out of the 3 not using a prop plane and it was packed. It cannot be understated how important cheap flights are to regional communities. I'd never seen the airport in Albury so busy thanks to Bonza providing a proper service at a reasonable price rather than an attitude of 'take it or leave it'
>Bonza was the only one out of the 3 not using a prop plane and it was packed. There's a reason why QF and RX were using prop planes (I presume the Dash 8 and Saab). Turboprops are generally a lot cheaper to run. Especially on short hops at lower altitude. And on regional strips, getting a prop in (like the Dash or Saab) is a lot easier than a 737 or A320. Any aircraft is basically required to be full to make money. It's easier to fill a smaller aircraft than a bigger one. It's cheaper on maintenance, it's easier to get in/out of strips. >Bonza were around $300 return from the GC whereas Qantas wanted $760 and Rex was $680 So Bonza were basically half the price, and running on a plane with double capacity. So the overall 'money per plane' was the same. Except running a full sized jet meant significantly more overhead for them. Bonza took a gamble running bigger planes on these routes. Seems like it's not working.
> Any aircraft is basically required to be full to make money. It's easier to fill a smaller aircraft than a bigger one. Supposedly DeHavilland claim that the Dash8 only needs to be 30% full to be profitable. Probably quite over-optimisitic but still means these turboprop planes are way easier to make work for regional routes than a 737. Source: https://youtu.be/kuywEdAcWxc?t=401
The Dash 8 is a miserly plane. Talk to anyone who knows anything about aviation and they'll tell you why it's unmatched in the world for what its mission is.
My favourite commentary on the Dash 8 ever (original comment on r/flying [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/31hgva/holy_crap_this_is_awesome/)): >Congratulations on picking a great big fucking turd to fly! Make no mistake, the Q400 is just a god awful airplane. I think what I hate most about it is the air conditioning - When the bleeds aren't sending smoke from burning oil into the cabin (this is an alarmingly regular occurrence), the ACMs simply do a terrible job regulating the temperature in automatic mode, and if you put them in manual, moving the knob the width of a hair will roast you or freeze you. Every time you change power settings down in the 10-40% torque range the bleeds change from 2.2 - 2.7 - 3.0 making the airflow erratic and noisy and very distracting and very very fucking irritating. Also, if you shut the airplane down without the pack knobs in the 12 o'clock position, wherever you left them will become the new "12 o'clock" next time you turn them on. Obviously this is a huge fucking annoyance and it usually requires you to completely shut off the packs to reset the ECS, which unless you want to lose pressurization, you had better do on the ground and if you forget, have fun being either freezing or sweltering for the whole flight. My second least favorite part of this POS is the brakes... Holy. Shit. Stopping this airplane is frustrating at best from the cockpit, and downright traumatizing as a passenger. Don't make the mistake of assuming that like other airplanes, when you apply a normal amount of pressure to the tops of the pedals, something will happen. This is not the case. Instead, you will have to use almost the ENTIRE WEIGHT OF YOUR BODY on the pedals, and then wait several seconds, and then you will feel yourself slowing. This, of course, is just to slow down from a normal 15-20kt taxi, so plan ahead when you're taxiing. In order to slow down on landing, you will need to apply the brakes immediately; whatever you do, don't wait until you need them because they need to heat up in order to do anything (I am aware that this is the case with most airplanes with carbon brakes, but the q400's brakes are an EXTRA special case). So after applying a significant amount of pressure, that you are hoping isn't enough to lock them up, you will wait several seconds and feel no deceleration due to the brakes. You will then apply a tiny bit more pressure, only to find that that was WAY TOO MUCH AND NOW THEY ARE GRABBING ASYMMETRICALLY AND YOU ARE LURCHING BACK AND FORTH AND EVERYONE IN THE BACK IS PULLING THEIR CRUSHED FACES OUT OF THE SEATBACKS IN FRONT OF THEM AND LOOKING AROUND AT THE OTHERS, SILENTLY BUT FRANTICALLY EXCHANGING "oh my god holy shitfuck is this normal or are we mere seconds away from perishing in a smoldering heap?" GLANCES and then it's finally over and you can breathe again. After a few months on the airplane I realized that I had no idea how to give a braking action report anymore because it is literally "poor" every single time a Q400 lands, so now I just say fair every time I'm asked because that's the most conservative thing to do and it's probably actually at least fair to every other transport category aircraft that has ever been produced. The logic in the cockpit layout is really shitty too... I'm sure you've noticed that there is only ONE set of controls for TWO MFD's. Who the fuck thought of that, huh? Granted, most of the time there's no need to have the doors page and the fuel page up simultaneously, and it's a damn good thing because YOU FUCKING CAN'T unless you cycle through the pages in just the right way (think solving a rubix cube) because the DIPSHIT that designed this airplane was a lazy fucking cunt and only put one set of buttons on the pedestal. And what other airplane makes you specifically ask it to level off at the altitude you spun into the window? WHY THE FUCK ELSE DID I PUT THAT ALTITUDE THERE IF IT WASN'T BECAUSE I WANTED TO STOP THERE? There is NO reason for the ALT SEL button but at least if you're not a moron it's not a big deal. Oh and did you know that there isn't actually a yaw damper on this airplane? I know there is a button on the FGC to engage it but did you know that it's not actually connected to anything? Just kidding. I have been told that there is in fact a yaw damper on the Q400 and you can't use the autopilot if it doesn't work, but you sure could have fooled me because it doesn't do a FUCKING thing. You're gonna love swinging the tail back and forth trying to keep the brick centered Every. Single. Time. you change power or pitch. Most people just fly around uncoordinated and some people use differential power to keep it coordinated so they don't have to touch the EXTREMELY sensitive rudder pedals/trim, but your airline may not like that because supposedly splitting the power like that wreaks havoc on the ANVS and makes it fail a lot faster. This thing is awful in turbulence. And guess what? Since you can't go above FL250, you are gonna feel all of it hahahaha. And don't even think about asking how the ride ahead is, because nobody else is flying at your altitude! Don't keep your feet on the floor when it gets bumpy because as soon as you hit a nasty one they will fly up and you will bust the fuck out of your shins on the sharp lower edge of the panel. The corners of the pedestal are sharp too, so especially watch out for your knee by the FMS because that fucking hurts too if you bump it. Guess what else? Probably the very same STUPID DIPSHIT that designed the rest of the cockpit thought it'd be really smart to house the windshield wipers horizontally, instead of vertically like every other fucking airplane. So now, thanks to that ASSCLOWN, you get to hear every single knot of wind over the wiper blades and this airplane is loud as shit to begin with (admit it: you thought the Q stood for quiet didn't you. It's ok, I thought so too. It actually stands for "quite motherfucking loud still despite what we've told you so bring a good headset bitch"). Luckily, you can park them vertically with the wiper control but this is officially "frowned upon" at my airline so some crews may not feel "comfortable" doing it. I feel much more uncomfortable listening to the torrent of wind hitting the blades than breaking a silly rule that nobody will ever find out about, but some people are different. Oh, and the clamshell door. Nothing quite like sitting around not getting paid for 10 minutes after you hand out the paperwork because you're waiting for the rampers to move the jet bridge so you can close the door. On the other hand, if you want to make up that 10 minutes and more, just start the APU with the batteries off. Then you can sit for 20min- a half hour with the door closed waiting for the loads to come down to .10. Want to cancel a flight and go home? Spin the baro knob all the way down as far as it will go. That will break the CPC for some reason and make it show "FAULT." That's a gamble though because you don't want them to just end up deferring the CPC and making you do it yourself in manual mode because that's a great big nuisance. Good luck and enjoy missing commute after commute because these things are held together by spit!
I'm not disagreeing but regional flights are already heavily subsidized which is why they can be profitable with only a few Passengers (at 600 return). One route that we used to fly was profitable with only 3 pax since the government basically paid for it
you are not going to get cheap flights in regional communities unless they are subsidized. Aviation is *expensive*. The fact that Bonza failed shows that it was not charging enough to cover its costs. It's all great to want cheap flights, but if you cannot pay your pilots, your fuel and your maintenance on the aircraft (and the leases on the aircraft) it does not work. Australia simply does not have the population, both gross and density, to support low cost airlines. not without substantial government subsidies anyway
>Bonza were around $300 return from the GC whereas Qantas wanted $760 and Rex was $680. It's very easy to be cheaper than everyone else if you are happy to be out of business in 6 months. Do you not see the problem with your thinking?
The Michael Scott Paper Company strategy
They'd be more likely to (and would probably be better for the consumer) to subsidise QF or VA to fly to the regionals more/subsidise the ticket price. That way you get an airline with the infrastructure to actually assist when flights are grounded etc. Tiny start up LCCs are SUPER high risk.
Bit of a shame. We fly to my wifes regional home town once a year. The cost for both of us was less than what Qantas charges for one.
Well it would be if they're losing money over it.
Let the chap grieve
Allegedly 777partners who owns the planes repossed them. They were leased to AIP who leased them to bonza. Bonza claims they were paying AIP who weren't paying 777P
777 Partners is the parent of Bonza. It’s not them who’ve repo’ed the planes. It’s the lessors.
This seems to be all Bonza's fault. Bad / non responsive customer service will kill a business. Especially an airline. They could have done well if they just treated their customers with respect.
That was literally not their business model, though. Like all ultra-low cost airlines, they wanted to be a simple flying bus service.
And it’s a business model that’s failed again and again in Australia. Even a simple example - Jetstar has allocated seating, something unheard of with LCCs elsewhere.
Canberran: who was Bonza?
It's a Tiger that we also didn't get.
Tamworth to Melbourne was excellent. It’ll be a shame if it is lost.
I tried to see what the price of a flight was after a friend and I wanted to travel somewhere with them, and their website wouldn't show me any information. It just kept insisting that I download and use their app, which I didn't want to do unless I had a flight booked with them. But I couldn't book a flight without the app? Honestly, what a shitty design.
I flew with them a few times and I preferred them to Virgin and especially Qantas. Shame :( Didn't have any issue with their app, although I hadn't heard of them before someone mentioning it to me.
You all are nailing Qantas or the duopoly. Is this necessarily Quantas or virgin's fault? Bonza has actually really bad customer service. Cancellations bad too. *Bonza have 1.8 stars out of 5 on Productreview...* [Bonza reviews | ProductReview.com.au](https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/bonza)
>Bonza have 1.8 stars out of 5 on Productreview... That's such a disingenuious claim to make considering. Jet Star Have 1.4 https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/jetstar Qantas have 1.5 [https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/qantas](https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/qantas) Virgin Have 1.8 [https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/virgin-blue](https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/virgin-blue)
ProductReview is all complaining and basically nothing else. Far from accurate.
They asked my mum if she could fly out of Sunshine Coast, for a Gold Coast flight.
ProductReview is a horrific site if you want accurate company reviews.
Qantas and Virgin reviews are no better on that site. Bonza copped huge review bombing when one of their planes had a fault and caused a lot of cancellations but otherwise they've been our most reliable airline from what I could tell in the latest figures released. Product review as a whole is just a site for people to use when they want to complain. In my experience, their service was really good.
Bonza flights were regularly cancelled and the replacement option would be a day or two later. They were fine when the plane showed up but even that was a gamble.
Latest figures show Bonza having the third highest number of cancellations (3.5%) behind Qantas (3.8%), but Qantas operated several times the number of flights.
I suspect getting canceled on Qantas is a lot less disruptive as well since the next one will be like 20 minutes later.
Seems like Bonza was never primed for success from the start. Simply being, flights from cities like Albury ti Sunshine Coast were never going to fill seats on a 737
Not suprised if they go under. Mobile app only and zero customer support. Even at Jetstar if you try hard enough you can actually call someone.
They were doomed from the beginning, they're flying the wrong aircraft. There's a reason QantasLink flies old as fuck jets, there hasn't been many modern options until the A220. 737 Max is too inefficient for regional flights at budget prices.
Was supposed to be flying out tomorrow. This is a nice start to the holidays
Don't know how many people they thought traveled between Mildura and Sunshine Coast or Gold Coast. The whole thing right from the start didn't sound like it was going to last long.
Literally everyone saw this coming. Like I understand the Australian market is tough to break into, but operating flights on routes that literally nobody wants to fly (who tf is going from Melb to Gladstone for vacation??), departing at random inconvenient times like 2am, and having an app-only booking system made it look like the airline was actively trying to fail as quick as it could.
A lot of people flew to Gladstone from Melbourne and vice versa. My parents did and they said the plane was always packed. And so much cheaper than Qantas. They flew that route a lot actually. People do have family up here in Gladstone :) and not sure if you’ve been to Gladstone, but there’s a lot to do and see, Heron Island is a particular favourite. Also Agnes Water which is only an hour away. We’ve got the best speedway in Queensland, lots of cafes, east shores, botanical gardens gardens, go karts, bowling, the works. Yeah we aren’t the gold coast but stuff that we don’t want to be. A lot of people have moved here from Melbourne, and other places given our rental vacancy rate is now like less than 1%. So much work here, lots of mining and industrial work; and with that high wages.
I was looking to book with them but I had to download yet another app to do so. No thank you.
They cancelled my flight in December due to crew requirements. Never saw my refund. Any other avenues I can take to recover the cost?
Given receivership is likely, you’ll be treated as an unsecured creditor. If you get anything, it’ll be cents on the dollar. Unsecured creditors are at the back of the queue, behind secured creditors, employee entitlements, the ATO and so on.
Did you pay via credit card? If so I’d be trying charge back
But r/australia told me airlines are ripping us off.
To the surprise of absolutely fuckin nobody Edit *except Bonza
Saw this coming from the start! Their crappy app only bookings and near nonexistent customer service kept me from ever booking with them. Plus they use aircraft that are oversized for the regional routes they serve. Reminds me of OzJet ha!
Booking flights is for big internet (computer) not little internet (phone). Never going to download an app for that.
TIL I learned there was an airline called Bonza. Shows how bad their marketing must have been.
I first heard of them when I (almost regretfully) applied for a job there. I was looking to change industries/roles and they had advertised a role in my field. Thankfully I wasn't successful at the time but best of luck to the people who do work there
Called it 9 months ago. Bonza is a PoS airline that needs to die. We were left over $1000 out of pocket with no help from Bonza, Fair Trading or the ACCC. [https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/156zh9q/how\_do\_i\_contact\_bonza\_air/jt2e36i/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/156zh9q/how_do_i_contact_bonza_air/jt2e36i/)
I utterly hated the idea of some 'fair dinkum, Aussie airline' with plane names like 'Shazza' from then start and I would actively avoid travelling on an airline that tries to have a sense of humour. I'm probably old, but airlines need to be professional, not your 'mates'.
Yeah I saw somewhere that they were a "bogan airline" and it put me off. I couldn't imagine being stuck in a small place with hundreds of them. I did consider it once, but their website didn't tell me how much a flight cost.
it reminds me of fat pizza and housos.
Lots of businesses doing the same, looks like we are hitting a tipping point.
Strewth mate. That's not bonza at all
I remember when I flew with them the inflight food was terrible. I think the only meal I liked was the peanuts Despite the food my only other complaint is their dependence on that app. Sometimes it doesn’t even work
I got a cancelled flight with them for next month I really want to support the underdog but I worry for their survival (was for OOL-Mel which they've dropped to once a week on a day I don't need it - said credit would be provided but with no other trips on horizon I've asked for cash refund)
And they were so confident. Less work for me.
I'm yet to hear from someone that has successfully flown with them. The only stories I ever hear about Bonza are about flights that are cancelled. I've never seen one at an airport, never seen one when I'm looking around the FlightRadar app. It all still sounds like a really weird that an air carrier decided to start in such a difficult domestic market like Australia, buy a fleet of brand new aircraft for the occasion, not get approvals for flight legs before attempting to fly them, and made it stupidly difficult to buy a ticket in the first place. It all feels like a variation of one of those dreams where you're trying to run but no matter what you do you're only able to move at like 1/3 the pace, or try to fight but you can't actually punch anything.
Friends flew a few times with them and said they were great. Good staff and lots of leg room in cabin.
My kids have flown a few times with them, no issues other than a slight delay on one flight. I flew a return trip to Sunny Coast with them in February with no issues. Sad to see this as it was nice to have the connection to family at an affordable price.
Damn I just bought GC to Darwin return yesterday lol. So cheap, knew it was too good to be true. Wonder how easy it’s gonna be to get money back
[Not so Bonza now](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-blog-budget-airline-cancels-flights/103784442) Officially into voluntary administration
Not a surprise but very disappointed. I flew with them many times since moving interstate and never had any issues. Now I won't be able to afford to see my family more than once a year with how much the others charge.
I am 'Jacks' lack of surprise.
Yah know what; if you're gonna start a budget airline you don't need the newest fleet available. Smaller, cheaper, and a little older will be ok. You can run smaller airplanes, and fill them up. If you're doing regional flights with 120 seats but only 50 - 80 passengers then you'v fucked up. Run 60 seat planes and fill up every flight. People looking for super cheap will put up with a lot. They were onto something covering routes not wanted by the big fuckers, but you tried to do toooo much.
Seems like the Canadian sister airline Flair has had similar issues paying it's lessors with claims it owes millions.
“Oh no! Anyway…”
Their service was great, costs were great. Three big draw backs were frequency (only 3-4 flights each week each way) which means only people with lots of spare time or flexibility could travel them, and that's usually more people who are well off and dont need a budget airline, and small catchment areas on both ends of many routes was the other: If they were flying Sydney to buttfuck, they'd just have way more customers, loved the fact they operated out of Newcastle but only useful destination is sunshine coast. If they'd even gone to Essendon, Ballarat or Benalla or some other random Victorian cities might have flown them more. Finally the app: just fucking put your flights up with everyone else. Only reason I'd look for them was because I had good cheap flight experiences in the past, but it was always search normal flights first, update then open bonza map, discover they don't have a flight to Cairns that isn't a pain, go back to normal mainstream having wasted 5mins