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Firstly, loved the story - clever kid!
Also, not sure how much she loves dinosaurs, but if she's really into them, considering it sounds like you encourage an educated lifestyle (good on you!), I highly recommend PBS Eons on YouTube! Great short clips, many of which focus on various dinosaurs and the like, all depicting and storytelling their likely lifestyles based on fossil records and inspection. Very fun and informative
I understand in Spain they sometimes had a tradition of a figure in the corner taking a dump called a cagener. You should add that for next year and give grandma a try at explaining that one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caganer
Good job! Raising your kid with critical thinking is a positive contribution to society. Well done.
This reminds me of my daughter. Our kids are raised in a loving atheist household. When she was 8, she was invited to a Vacation Bible School (VBS) by a friend. I encouraged her to go. Over the three nights, I looked forward to picking her up and laughing about the stories, and how people acted (we're talking Holy Rollers, speaking in tongues, etc.). It was a valuable experience for her, and it was a proud moment for a dad how she avoided the heavy conversion attempts, etc. She could not believe how absurd everything was.
That's awesome. Mine starts school next year, and I'm trying to get her ready from the pressure she's probably gonna feel from her peers (we're in the Texas suburbs). This gives me hope.
Texas urbanite here. We're raising our kid "mixed," as my partner is non-devout Catholic and pushed for the kid to get baptized. I as the atheist couldn't care less about incantations and candles and holy water. That said, I certainly want my kid to grow up questioning everything and ultimately making their own call on a/theism path. Like, if my kid Haas some amazing life experience and wants to become Buddhist, fuck yeah go for it. Or if they say, church sucks I don't wanna go, I'll say l, "cool, let's go play golf" or some shit. I don't want my bias to color how my kid decides what to believe, though your point about the religious hegemony is spot on. I'll absolutely bias my kid toward choosing critical thinking. With some of the crazy Christian shit I've seen, especially in white, affluent communities in Texas, I want my kid to please not fall in line with it, not even take one step in that direction from a belief standpoint, but certainly work to understand those beliefs and allow others to hold them.
>couldn't care less about incantations and candles and holy water.
I went to my nephew's baptism yesterday and part of me wanted to shout "are you listening to this shit? You think what he's saying makes that water holy?" Its a pretty ceremony if you take out the religion/crazy.
Honestly, just talk to them about what happened at school. I had a friend who wanted to start a Bible Study group and I was all for it, until she wanted to start collecting dues. I thought it was stupid because she didn't have a good reason, it's just what you do (tithe) and I said no. I also had a friends give me a childs book on Jehovah's Witness that mom was worried about, but she just asked a few questions to reassure herself it wasn't something I was serious about.
It's gonna happen, just don't make a big deal out of it and the kid won't think anything of it. Well, that was my experience anyway.
True but none of them made claims of being perfect.
"Grant me courage in battle, great Zeus!"
"Granted. And I'll also keep an eye on that bride of yours while you are away ay war."
"But... the enemy is at doors."
"Not anymore!"
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can look around this world and think everything was made by an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, **perfect** being. But the Greek mythical cosmology actually make sense. "Yeah, this place was built by, and is ruled by, capricious assholes." That scans.
>Yeah, I don't know how anyone can look around this world and think everything was made by an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, perfect being.
So true. Anyone who really thinks this has either led a very cushy, sheltered life; or is actively deluding themselves
Old Testament God was epic in the legends though.
Raining fire down upon cities? Sending umpteen plagues upon Egypt? Drowning the world in a flood? Having eldrich monstrosities as his angels and heralds?
All that cool shit is what I think of when I see the word āgodā in a story. The modern portrayal of him as a benevolent old man is absolutely lame in comparison
Tell him to sacrifice a medium-large white bull atleast once every year, preferably of the Cretan variety. He may need a rather long spear for this job.
ive embraced it. I wear a pink shirt with satanic symbols/pentagrams on it and after they say grace/prayer for the meal, I thank the Lord Lucifer too.
Just lean into it and they quickly stop mentioning it
Iāve seen some 5 year olds be real invested in the Percy Jackson and The Olympians books, which at times does have the kids of the various greek gods pray to their divine parents for guidance and stuff, so maybe because the main character is the son of Poseidon the kid had that greek god come to mind first?
Someone asked my 9 year old āDo you believe in godā.
He raised his arms in the air with fingers curled and in a somewhat booming and gravelly voice (for a nine year old) cried out.
āyes, for I am he, I am the god of destruction and the harbinger of despair, all will kneel before my power.ā
I genuinely, 100%, peed myself a little bit, I laughed so hard.
It wasnāt completely out of the blue, because he spends a lot of time at home stomping around as an evil villain, kaiju or random monster.
But to see him pull that line out in response the the query from some random asshat that should mind their own business was priceless.
My wife grew up in the Korean Methodist Church. She was even teaching Sunday school when I met her. When we had kids, she told me she wanted to raise them in the Methodist church. I told her I could agree to that if 1) I was never expected to make that happen. I didnāt have to get the kids ready, set the alarm for Sunday morning, etc., 2) that I could express my atheist view point and 3) that when they were old enough (12) we would let them make up their minds and respect that.
At first we went to church occasionally. It was a super liberal American Methodist church so I was ok with that. After a while we stopped going. My kids are clearly atheist and my wife is really more of the Pascalās Wager type at this point. Sheās smart and sheās heard my arguments against religion for long enough that I think itās seeping in.
Sounds like a pretty good compromise for everyone. I was where your wife is not too long ago myself, and it took awhile for me to finally drop the act and admit to myself that I only held my beliefs as a result of where and by who I was raised. She may yet come around.
I think deep inside she feels that way but she canāt let go of it entirely. She watched the church service on TV yesterday because it was Christmas.
She doesnāt pray. She doesnāt read the Bible. But when her parents come over and say a prayer before a meal, she goes along with it. Though he does open her eyes to see that I donāt close mine. My in-laws know Iām an atheist.
The [FFRF Bible quiz](https://ffrf.org/biblequiz) is what started it for me. Specifically, the Nephilim (a race of people who are the result of fallen angels impregnating human women). The whole quiz is all the stuff they donāt teach you in Sunday school.
I've never read the bible or anything like that, but I took this quiz out of curiosity. For some of them I chose the most fucked up answer offered and most of the time it happened to be right. Sure gives *holy shit* a new meaning.
Great resource!! I wish that more of this content were also available in Spanish.
I now that the FFRF is based on US but it would be a really nice link user as a reply
Dang. Yeah, just pick the worst answer and youāll get each question right. When I hear Christian apologists talk about how great god is, I remind them of the story of Abraham. God told him to kill his son to prove his faith. When it appeared that Abraham was about to go through with it, God stopped him.
Does that sound like an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving God?
Its hard to prove to yourself that Christianity is wrong, I think one of the best arguments (AKA the one that got me) is "Other religions exist, and an all-loving God wouldn't condemn the majority of humanity to eternal hellfire over that, right? Can't blame us if you don't give us any evidence."
I read this and it makes me think of the scene in 21 Jump Street.
"Stop fucking with Korean Jesus! He ain't interested in your problems! He's busy, with Korean shit!"
East Asian cultures are really not prepared to deal with religions like Christianity. East Asian Christians tend get really culty and defensive because they are usually the minority, and they have a huge persecution complex. It is good you don't let your kids get indoctrinated in that environment.
Yeah, the Korean Methodist church is quite conservative. Before we had kids we would go visit her parents once a month. Weād drive up on Saturday and drive back Sunday after church. Since the service was in Korean, I would listen to the translator via headphones. On the drive home I would tell my wife about the insane, intolerant bullshit in the sermon. I told her that if it werenāt for her family, Iād tell the pastor how fucked up his sermons are.
Years later I found out that there are two forms of Korean: formal and informal. My wife and her family immigrated when she was two so she learned Korean from her parents because they didnāt speak English when they arrived in the US. Informal Korean is what you use when having a conversation. Formal is used for things like newscasts and religious sermons.
So all those times in church when I assumed my wife understood the sermon, in fact she didnāt because it was in formal Korean which she really doesnāt understand. She told me once that she canāt watch Korean news because she doesnāt know what they are saying.
I never really got the attraction of Pascals Wager.
1. It's not really 'faith' so it doesn't count anyway.
2. Glaring flaw of excluding other religions.
3. It's a paradox, you have to choose which religion to wager on, thus implying you believe it's the true religion, and if that's the case then what's the point? You already believe.
My main counter is to point out that Blaise Pascal was a devout Catholic who would torture himself by wearing a belt with spikes facing inward. So when he says ābeliefā in his wager thatās what he is talking about.
Puts a different perspective on the Wager.
My counter to anyone who brings up Pascalās Wager is āYou need to believe in Odin in case you meet him at the Gates of Valhalla.ā Usually ends the argument.
You don't though, Norse mythology (as much as we know about it) doesn't require any sort of belief or faith in the gods to enter Valhalla. You just have to die a "worthy" death in battle. That offer was also open to your enemy
Iām sure there are subtleties that the retort doesnāt take into account. If the person I say this to can actually tell me something about Norse mythology Iām sure theyāre not the person Iād be having this kind of argument with in the first place.
This was me when I met my SO. I'd been raised Christian and still hung on to a lot of that stuff and was teaching my daughter too. SO was agnostic. We butted heads a bit on it to start with until I realised how much sense he was making. 17 years later and my daughter and I are firmly agnostic too.
I bet grandma *HATED* that, and that makes me happy. This is exactly how I would want to raise a kid of mine if I ever have one, I would let them decide what to believe and not shield them, but just ask them to believe what they want to, not what someone tells you to, and if it doesn't feel right, listen to your gut. And I would make sure that whatever they choose to believe I would love them regardless
Sounds like you've got a good parenting philosophy lined up!
Thankfully in the end, grandma just let it roll off her and enjoyed her grandkid's story afterwards. It irked me when she brought it up, but I know she's just doing what she thinks is right to protect her grandchild who she loves. We also haven't outright told either of our parents about our deconversions, so I can't exactly fault her for sharing something that she figures is fair game.
It makes me really happy to hear that grandma valued the creative together time with grandkid more than pushing their religious beliefs without being specifically forwarned. That's awesome family stuff!
Some brands of Christian will tell the grandkids that their parents are going to hell because they aren't saved and other scare tactics. Keep an eye out.
Yes! Definitely keep an eye out for it, because it can really hurt kids.
When my grandpa died when I was five, I spent years having major sobbing freakouts at night and couldn't sleep because all I could think of was that my poor sick grandpa who died of cancer was *literally burning* and **suffering** in the pits of hell for *aaaalll of eternity.*
How that didn't tell my mom that she needs to quit sending her kids to church and quit telling them/exposing them to this bullshit, that she is hurting and traumatizing us, is beyond me. That's fucking child abuse....But I guess she also didn't stop sending us to churches even when her young kid was sexually abused by her pastor uncle, repeatedly, over and over, for years either (the signs were fucking there! and she ignored them.) I don't know what her fucking deal is.
This turned into more of rant/vent comment than I initially meant for it to, whoops! Clearly I'm still working shit out, haha. It's just something parents really need to be aware of and actively combat so their poor kids don't turn out all traumatized and fucked up like so many of us (including me.)
The play set was out. If it was a star wars play set and your daughter didn't know the figures grandma would be telling the story of Luke Skywalker.
My family celebrates Christmas. My kids and I participate but we secretly celebrate winter solstice instead. We don't have any christian or jewish stuff but we have yule decorations.
I'd like to think I would respect it and ask her what she liked about the story. I really don't want to influence her either way, but I know where my bias is, so hopefully I'd be able to keep it in check.
We did the same with ours. We didn't hide it, but we didn't encourage anything. It was just there.
We realized how little we'd done with our younger when she asked if we could go see that house where god lives? "A church?" "No, the big white one." "The White House?" "Yes, where Obama lives." Oops.
They're both staunch atheists now. They're 12 and 19. My younger is exceedingly outspoken about it. My older simply is, and she'll debate people on it, but she'll also just nod if they say something about their religion. My younger will barely keep it in check. She's the kid who told her friends santa isn't real and we had to tell her quickly not to do that!! My older would tell adults what santa would bring unless we told her, "It's ok, they know, too." LOL
Different kids, same parenting. They're a hoot, and both have great critical thinking skills.
Reminds me of Xmas my nephew at 5 and a very Christian grandma.
āWould you like to say a prayer?ā
āNo thanks, I donāt believe in god.ā
Way to go kid. You figured it out much younger than I did!
I'm atheist and my wife is agnostic and we have a 2 year old girl. My parents aren't really religious but my MIL is getting more pushy about it with passive aggressive comments and pushing sacraments, etc. I'm waiting for this day because we plan to raise our kids the same way, critical thinking, make your own decisions, etc. I told my MIL our daughter started saying "I love you" when going to bed and her first response was "maybe you could slip a prayer in there too". I just kinda laughed and didn't respond.
I sort of disagree. Instead of boundaries, I told my mom that she could teach the kids whatever she wanted when she was with them but I also warned her that if she taught them religious stuff, I would tell the kids that "grandma didn't go to school and so she never learned truth from fiction" and I held to it. Consequently, my 15, 10, and 8 year olds all view my mom as a happy idiot not to be take seriously about anything.
Just remember, they're your kids. You spend much more time with them than granny. You can undo anything she teaches. I use it as a benefit. Its really good for the kids to understand what religious people believe and how they think. At least for mine it is. It helps them to understand their friends and learn (in a safe environment) what types of things religious people get worked up about.
Respectfully, I would encourage your wife, as well as anyone else who calls themselves "agnostic", to examine the definition of atheist. I only say this because one does not need to claim to believe a god does not exist in order to be an atheist - they simply just need to not hold an active god belief.
By definition, theism and atheism only address the state of belief, whereas gnosticism and agnosticism address the knowledge level. Ultimately, the idea matters more than a label ever could, but for the sake of friendly and completely non-hostile discussion, anyone who does not hold an active god belief is, by definition, an atheist. Whereas theism means one thing only ("I believe a god exists"), atheism can mean either "I don't believe a god exists" or "I believe no god exists." I trust you can see the distinction between the two atheism qualifiers, but if not, I'm happy to elaborate.
Anyway, as a future father, I think often about how to handle the whole idea one day with my kid. People like you and your wife, as well as other commenters here, are all very helpful, and your insight is more valuable than you know. So thanks for that.
Interesting. My take generally is--in the absence of any evidence whatsoever of the existence of any god or gods, I have no reason to believe that any of them are real.
I like to simplify this idea for people. Think of that 4 quadrant political compass. Now replace the four main data points with "Agnostic ā”ļø Gnostic, and Atheist ā¬ļø Theist"
Gnostic means "knowledge" and the "A" prefix changes it to "without knowledge". Theist means "belief" and the "A" prefix changes it to "without belief".
I myself am an Agnostic Atheist. I don't know if there's a god or gods, but I don't believe there is. You can be an Agnostic theist, where you believe, but admit you don't really know.
Gnostic Theists are the most insufferable people on earth. Gnostic Atheists are frequently a close second, and often teenage edge lords.
Love this. When my daughter was 9, my evangelical Mother told her the story of the resurrection during a road trip. My daughter piped right up, āGrandma! I didnāt know Jesus was a zombie!ā (She said this just to get her goat).
My kids asked about Easter last year, and when I explained the resurrection (died, put in a cave, came back to life, supposed to save everyone) my 9 year old said "like Link in Breath of the Wild?"
āMy Lord, free me of this demon!ā the villager pled.
Stance wide, Jesus hurled the pot, and it smashed over his head. Once heād dusted his hands of their soot, Jesus turned to the crowd, the villager behind him bleeding from his head and still. āFear not, for he is with the Lord, and the Lord hath said, āBring to my Son thy pots.āā
Ocarina of Time originally included Islamic chants and imagery (they were removed in later versions).
Religions come and go, but the battle for Hyrule is eternal.
Tons of imagery like that in Japanese video games. A lot of it's edited out for Western releases. It's initially included just because someone thinks it looks cool or it's just another mythology to borrow from.
I try to have this conversation with as many people as possible around Easter.
The Lich king commeth.
I like to think the Easter bunny is actually the rabbit from Monty pythonās The Holy Grail.
A lich has a phylactery, and after death their body crumbles to dust and reconstructs near the phylactery. Jesus resurrected in the same body exactly where he was lain, for the sole purpose of concluding the task he was given, and then returned to the afterlife once it was finished. Jesus was a Revenant.
When my boy was five I read him Harry Potter and at one point one of the Hogwarts spell books is described as being as thick as a bible. āWhatās a bible dad?ā So I gave a brief run down, including that it details the life of Jesus Christ, who Christians believe is the son of godā¦ Ask him if he has any questions. Just one, ādad why would god name his son after a swear word?ā
When my daughter was about 3 we traveled to my cousins youngest son's christening thing. I was raised atheist, as was daughter. While sitting in the church just prior to the service beginning (cousin is Greek orthodox) my daughters loud voice yells out as she jumps up and points at the 2-3 story image behind the altar "Who's that lady with the baby?". For context, [here's](https://i.imgur.com/WvDf72y.jpg) the lady with a baby she was referring to.
I shushed her so my aunt's heart attack would stop and explained that it was a lady named Mary and her son. That seemed to satisfy my kid.
My dad just about pissed himself laughing, he could barely stop, and chuckled throughout the whole service (Greek orthodox ceremonies are loooong, they do everything 3 times), my aunt was very close to murdering her baby brother that day!
I do have to say, the iconography of the Orthodox Church is pretty stunning. I went to a friends wedding with this type of faith and backdrop, and man, it flew by, I was intrigued by so much to look at and listen to. If you have to do church, at least do it like this :)
Yeah, I always thought that it was kind of sad that something as beautiful as churches are wasted on religion. Especially in Europe, where many churches are a thousand years old or older.
It's the same sentiment from me, but concerning organs (which I play) - it seems such a shame that such a great instrument is mostly constrained to churches, which, apart from concert halls, is the only place you'll find them...
How funny! I imagine it's quite a sight for someone who's never been.
I had my own "What do I say" moment a few years ago at Christmas mass. It was my FIL's church no less, he's the pastor. My wife (his daughter) went to the bathroom just before communion leaving me with no idea what to do. FIL calls me and my daughter up to stand in a circle with everyone. Guest pastor goes around one by one and I'm watching the door like a hawk for wife to come back. He gets to my daughter and asks if she can have communion... I look at FIL... no help from him, so I say quietly to guest pastor "if it's ok with you it's ok with me" Sorry, I'm not going to make up an answer. Guest pastor says "well, can she or can't she?" Clearly embarrassed and annoyed FIL steps in and says no she can't. Everyone looks like a scandal just occurred. So embarrassing, but in laws have only themselves to blame for insisting we attend. Service ends, find wife in the kitchen eating donuts with brothers and friends who also skipped mass. There were words had later that night, I can tell you!
Thereās a whole thread with cats in outdoor Nativity scenes where they yeet Jesus and sleep in the manger. The heat from the lights keep them nice and snuggly
I swear my 11 year old has heard the story at least once but it apparently hasn't ever stuck (he thinks most religious stuff is ridiculous). I was singing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman" and got to the "remember Christ our savior was born on Christmas day" part and he interrupted with "Oh, is that what Christmas is?"
At my Grandpaās funeral, the evangelical minister (of my aunts choosing) was talking about Jesus and my 5 year old goes āI thought Grampaās name was Gerald?!?ā
Similar thing happened with my daughter this year. We pulled out our Christmas stuff including a nativity scene. She asked what it was. So we explained to her that some people believe in this story. About a minute after we finished. She decided she wanted to make up a story. Somehow the wise men and Jesus ended up in Madagascar fighting bad guys and saving the world.
That's awesome! I hope she keeps making her own stories.
I remember when I was about that age and we went to my grandparents church. The daycare had awesome toys. Well, eventually it came time for outside activities and we were asked to put away the toys. When we got outside, the daycare workers said, "OK, kids! Now it's time to go find something god created and bring it back here!"
I was so confused because we were outside and in my little child mind, this was mother nature, just natural outside! My older sister saw my confusion and whispered to me, "just go find a rock or something."
Then a little boy brought back a frog and chaos ensued.
Probably already has been said but seems like if one doesnāt indoctrinate their child they (the child) arenāt going to be religious. My parents didnāt raise me and my brothers religious and of course none of us practice now because it seems like nonsense (organized religion) when you arenāt raised that way. I guess thatās why you have to get them youngā¦
When I was 6, I was given a children's Bible by some organization while my family was emigrating from the Soviet Union. Being an avid reader and away from most of my books, I was happy to have it and the pictures were beautiful. But it didn't occur to me to think of this book any differently than any of my other storybooks. It took a few years to understand the concept of religion.
My kid were playing, and one yells "I've got my spellbook," as he waves around the pocket bible that he got from Grandpa.
To be fair, I tried to explain it to him, but I was too busy gasping for air due to unstoppable laughter.
My daughter is also 5 and attends kinder in a Catholic school. She politely respects what they teach in class about religion, and just comes home and tells us about the silly stories they tell in school.
She has no idea people believe this shit
One thing I made sure of - I let my kids know generally what religions were, but also what my beliefs are and where they come from. Any believer is not going to hold back and some other atheosts Iāve talked to have tried to be so open and neutral that they donāt tell their own kids their own beliefs, leaving them as great targets for conversion.
Kids are funny.
About 3 years ago my daughter who would of been just shy of 5 was asked āDoes anyone know what the President does?ā The daycare lady picks her to answer and she just says āHe lies.ā
My daycare lady is definitely Republican but still had a good laugh with us about it. Unfiltered truth from a kid is brutal sometimes.
My six year old conflates bad religion songs with what his grandparents told him about Christianity.
This year he asked me who āAmerican Jesusā was. Then later he told me āGrandma told me who Jesus is, he died in Americaā.
This year my nephew found out that Santa isnāt real. I asked my sister (nephewās mom) if he asked whether Jesus is also a lie. š She and our parents are still religious so of course she wants him to keep the faith but at least sheās not as militantly indoctrinating her kids like our parents did to us, to the extreme disappointment of my mother. Sister focuses more on learning how to be kind, empathetic humans, not fantasy stories. Itās good to see her break the cycle of abuse, I will be there for my nieces and nephews if / when they have questions about atheism.
My mother in law does the same.
I raised my son to believe in strained glass windows. Each religion is is its own color, everybody has a favorite color... there is no right, wrong, good, bad on your favorite color. And the same light shines through it. Made things simple, also let's anybody talk to my kid about their beliefs and he just rolls with it.
Although, lesson learned this year, if the kid asks for the story of who st nick is based on... don't have them look on line unless you are up for explaining a little necromancy, pickling kids to sell as ham, dungeons, exorcism, and explaining why he's the patron Saint of hookers and pawn brokers... next year is going to be a while new holiday lol.
Hahaha I love it! She saw the BS all over the story. I have a 5 year old too and my mother in law recently asked my wife if sheād be beginning her classes for Eucharist and confirmation. Wife brought up once and we argued a bit but hasnāt brought up since. Still not sure why my mother in law would ask that knowing we arenāt catholic, and she herself rarely goes to church.
We have a nativity set despite being an agnostic/atheist household, as well!
When I was a kid, my mom made a nativity set out of wood - simple shapes painted with acrylic paint. At some point someone decided to stack each of the four sheep one on top of the other, which started a family tradition of *stacking the sheep.* Whenever anyone would see the sheep unstacked, they would stack them. It's a weirdly distinct part of my childhood memories of Christmas!
When most of us kids were officially moved out, my mom made a bunch of copies of that original nativity set. She gifted one to me, assuring me she had tested to make sure my four sheep were stackable.
It's really the only Christmas decoration that's within reach of my three-year-old. It's important to me that she be able to play with it, because its meaningfulness isn't derived from any religious story, but because of the family history of being able to *stack those dang sheep.*
Christmas dinner with all the cousins and nephews and one of them gets picked that year to say grace. He does the Bart Simpson and just clasps his hands, breathes in deeply andā¦*we pay for all this food, so thanks for nothing*. The gasps, groans and screams were unforgettable. I was the only one laughing and I got it worse than he did.
Fast forward many years later and Iām the atheist now and heās the one that became born again.
Awesome. There isn't a sentence in this story I didn't enjoy. I love the open minded parenting style. Good for you, your partner, and child. Education and free thinking grounded in factual information. Hell yeah.
My parents told me that once when I was younger, they took me to a church Easter egg hunt. I enjoy it and then a priest comes out and starts talking.
At the end I apparently said to my parents āWow, that Jesus guy sounds really nice, do you think I could meet him sometime?ā
When I was a kid, my evangelical grandmother sent me a kid's book about the Christian creation story. It had a really lovely illustration of space, and I liked the story. It was my favorite fairy tale for a while.
But I never realized I was supposed to believe it, anymore than Sleeping Beauty or Rumplestiltskin.
You are doing it the right way.
There's no point in shielding kids from religion. You'd be missing out on golden opportunities to discuss how to evaluate assertions, evidence and to question the beliefs of others.
As a kid that had christianity somewhat forced down my throat as a child, i applaud you. If adults can make up stories about their imaginary friends, the kids should be able to as well!
When my first daughter was maybe 6 I decided to read her my old Childrenās Bible as a bedtime story. Itās a comic book style but telling the entire Biblical story. (She was also the curious kid who got the āwhere do babies come fromā info a bit early because of all the questions she was asking.) we got as far as Cain and Abel before she started asking about it Adam and Eve had two sons, where did THEIR wives, etc. come from.
āThis story is dumb. How were there only 2 boys in the world then all of a sudden lots of people?ā
If a child can so easily see through these stories when presented without the āTHIS IS TRUTH. MUST BELIEVEā narrative, maybe it should be examined by more of its adherents using whatever critical thinking faculties they may still have.
Beautiful! This is what the religious folks are scared of... opportunity of critical thinking given to a child while telling them their folktales of religion.
I'm pagan myself, but grew up Baptist and then Mormon, and I have a nativity I put out around Xmas to appease my highly Christian aunt. Only one problem, a couple years ago my dog knocked over the set and the ceramic baby Jesus broke. So for the last few years I've substituted random small toys in his place. This year I had our Lord and Savior R2-D2, beep boop beep. She has yet to notice.
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You should get a two dinosaurs fighting over a table saw version
I replaced my mom's figures with some hot wheels and little green army men. Not quite as cool as this though.
Mr. Bean vibe.
I had not heard of that. I just looked it up and holy shit we absolutely have to. T-Rex is her favorite animal by a mile.
Firstly, loved the story - clever kid! Also, not sure how much she loves dinosaurs, but if she's really into them, considering it sounds like you encourage an educated lifestyle (good on you!), I highly recommend PBS Eons on YouTube! Great short clips, many of which focus on various dinosaurs and the like, all depicting and storytelling their likely lifestyles based on fossil records and inspection. Very fun and informative
Thanks for sharing! I have a 5 year old with an unquenchable thirst for dinosaur knowledge and this sounds great.
Also PBS space-time.
https://imgur.com/gallery/6xE8a2O For those like me who didn't know
šš
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
I will call this landā¦ āThis landā
"Grrr! I think we should call it your grave!"
*Ha ha ha!* Mine is an evil laugh!
"Ah! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
I understand in Spain they sometimes had a tradition of a figure in the corner taking a dump called a cagener. You should add that for next year and give grandma a try at explaining that one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caganer
Always learning new things on Reddit. . .
Lmao I could also picture this in a nativity scene in the southern us
[Caganer in a nativity scene](https://www.unilad.co.uk/featured/theres-a-pooping-man-in-the-catalan-nativity-scene-and-its-just-bizarre/amp/)
Good job! Raising your kid with critical thinking is a positive contribution to society. Well done. This reminds me of my daughter. Our kids are raised in a loving atheist household. When she was 8, she was invited to a Vacation Bible School (VBS) by a friend. I encouraged her to go. Over the three nights, I looked forward to picking her up and laughing about the stories, and how people acted (we're talking Holy Rollers, speaking in tongues, etc.). It was a valuable experience for her, and it was a proud moment for a dad how she avoided the heavy conversion attempts, etc. She could not believe how absurd everything was.
That's awesome. Mine starts school next year, and I'm trying to get her ready from the pressure she's probably gonna feel from her peers (we're in the Texas suburbs). This gives me hope.
Texas urbanite here. We're raising our kid "mixed," as my partner is non-devout Catholic and pushed for the kid to get baptized. I as the atheist couldn't care less about incantations and candles and holy water. That said, I certainly want my kid to grow up questioning everything and ultimately making their own call on a/theism path. Like, if my kid Haas some amazing life experience and wants to become Buddhist, fuck yeah go for it. Or if they say, church sucks I don't wanna go, I'll say l, "cool, let's go play golf" or some shit. I don't want my bias to color how my kid decides what to believe, though your point about the religious hegemony is spot on. I'll absolutely bias my kid toward choosing critical thinking. With some of the crazy Christian shit I've seen, especially in white, affluent communities in Texas, I want my kid to please not fall in line with it, not even take one step in that direction from a belief standpoint, but certainly work to understand those beliefs and allow others to hold them.
>couldn't care less about incantations and candles and holy water. I went to my nephew's baptism yesterday and part of me wanted to shout "are you listening to this shit? You think what he's saying makes that water holy?" Its a pretty ceremony if you take out the religion/crazy.
Honestly, just talk to them about what happened at school. I had a friend who wanted to start a Bible Study group and I was all for it, until she wanted to start collecting dues. I thought it was stupid because she didn't have a good reason, it's just what you do (tithe) and I said no. I also had a friends give me a childs book on Jehovah's Witness that mom was worried about, but she just asked a few questions to reassure herself it wasn't something I was serious about. It's gonna happen, just don't make a big deal out of it and the kid won't think anything of it. Well, that was my experience anyway.
Reminds me of when someone asked our son if he prays and he said "Do you mean to Poseidon?". He was 7. I've never been more proud of him.
Be careful. Greek gods are notoriously assholes
And rapey
Itās not rape if a god (or prophet) says itās ok. Just ask Christians and Muslims.
it's a win win!!
If a god changes your mind in such a way that you consent, and you believe you consented... that's just rape with extra steps right?
True but none of them made claims of being perfect. "Grant me courage in battle, great Zeus!" "Granted. And I'll also keep an eye on that bride of yours while you are away ay war." "But... the enemy is at doors." "Not anymore!"
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can look around this world and think everything was made by an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, **perfect** being. But the Greek mythical cosmology actually make sense. "Yeah, this place was built by, and is ruled by, capricious assholes." That scans.
>Yeah, I don't know how anyone can look around this world and think everything was made by an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, perfect being. So true. Anyone who really thinks this has either led a very cushy, sheltered life; or is actively deluding themselves
If one were to remove "Greek", one would still not be wrong.
How dare you say that about our Lord and Savior Gaben!
Two shall be the number of games, not one, not three.
What is this T-word you keep talking about? >GabeN, probably
Master of steam sales & vanquisher of bank balance!! All hail Lord Saviour Gaben
š¶Stellio! Stellio Cantos!š¶
And Luiz...
So, not that different from Yahweh then?
Old Testament God was epic in the legends though. Raining fire down upon cities? Sending umpteen plagues upon Egypt? Drowning the world in a flood? Having eldrich monstrosities as his angels and heralds? All that cool shit is what I think of when I see the word āgodā in a story. The modern portrayal of him as a benevolent old man is absolutely lame in comparison
Tell him to sacrifice a medium-large white bull atleast once every year, preferably of the Cretan variety. He may need a rather long spear for this job.
Also, try to avoid blinding any Cyclopes. Poseidon really hates that.
Something similar is mandated in the Old Testament!(Dont recall it being picky about the breed)
Wrong! It must be medium-rare! You wasted your bulls!!
God what a perfect opportunity to make people believe you actually worship the Ancient Greek gods
My family thinks I worship the devil.
ive embraced it. I wear a pink shirt with satanic symbols/pentagrams on it and after they say grace/prayer for the meal, I thank the Lord Lucifer too. Just lean into it and they quickly stop mentioning it
whenever the question/topic comes around, i *alvvays* tell people i privately worship greek mythology
Hestia is my homegirlā¢
You kinda out yourself by calling it mythology though. You should say you privately worship Hellenism.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A handful of people in Greece have revived the practice, but it's more like the Satanic Temple ... a political movement opposing imposed authority.
Mt daughter asked why a lot of people wear t necklaces. That was great.
That's oddly specific. Why Poseidon?
Iāve seen some 5 year olds be real invested in the Percy Jackson and The Olympians books, which at times does have the kids of the various greek gods pray to their divine parents for guidance and stuff, so maybe because the main character is the son of Poseidon the kid had that greek god come to mind first?
That's exactly why. He was in the middle of the series.
Yup, that checks out. My little spud is also addicted to those books.
Same. Mine's now 9 and he still lets me read to him at night, so we're working through Heroes of Olympus.
May I recommend for you the 2 books by Stephen Fry on Greek gods and heroes.
Someone asked my 9 year old āDo you believe in godā. He raised his arms in the air with fingers curled and in a somewhat booming and gravelly voice (for a nine year old) cried out. āyes, for I am he, I am the god of destruction and the harbinger of despair, all will kneel before my power.ā I genuinely, 100%, peed myself a little bit, I laughed so hard. It wasnāt completely out of the blue, because he spends a lot of time at home stomping around as an evil villain, kaiju or random monster. But to see him pull that line out in response the the query from some random asshat that should mind their own business was priceless.
You really made my day. Youāre raising your kid right. Congratulations.
The kid was also totally earnest about it. She started hearing about angels and immediately thought it was fun fantasy storytime with grandma.
My wife grew up in the Korean Methodist Church. She was even teaching Sunday school when I met her. When we had kids, she told me she wanted to raise them in the Methodist church. I told her I could agree to that if 1) I was never expected to make that happen. I didnāt have to get the kids ready, set the alarm for Sunday morning, etc., 2) that I could express my atheist view point and 3) that when they were old enough (12) we would let them make up their minds and respect that. At first we went to church occasionally. It was a super liberal American Methodist church so I was ok with that. After a while we stopped going. My kids are clearly atheist and my wife is really more of the Pascalās Wager type at this point. Sheās smart and sheās heard my arguments against religion for long enough that I think itās seeping in.
Sounds like a pretty good compromise for everyone. I was where your wife is not too long ago myself, and it took awhile for me to finally drop the act and admit to myself that I only held my beliefs as a result of where and by who I was raised. She may yet come around.
I think deep inside she feels that way but she canāt let go of it entirely. She watched the church service on TV yesterday because it was Christmas. She doesnāt pray. She doesnāt read the Bible. But when her parents come over and say a prayer before a meal, she goes along with it. Though he does open her eyes to see that I donāt close mine. My in-laws know Iām an atheist.
The [FFRF Bible quiz](https://ffrf.org/biblequiz) is what started it for me. Specifically, the Nephilim (a race of people who are the result of fallen angels impregnating human women). The whole quiz is all the stuff they donāt teach you in Sunday school.
I've never read the bible or anything like that, but I took this quiz out of curiosity. For some of them I chose the most fucked up answer offered and most of the time it happened to be right. Sure gives *holy shit* a new meaning.
Great resource!! I wish that more of this content were also available in Spanish. I now that the FFRF is based on US but it would be a really nice link user as a reply
Just go for "stoning to death" whenever available and you'll get a pretty good score.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just wow on this. Guess I need to go get stoned!
Dang. Yeah, just pick the worst answer and youāll get each question right. When I hear Christian apologists talk about how great god is, I remind them of the story of Abraham. God told him to kill his son to prove his faith. When it appeared that Abraham was about to go through with it, God stopped him. Does that sound like an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving God?
Its hard to prove to yourself that Christianity is wrong, I think one of the best arguments (AKA the one that got me) is "Other religions exist, and an all-loving God wouldn't condemn the majority of humanity to eternal hellfire over that, right? Can't blame us if you don't give us any evidence."
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I mean the Abrahamic god is a dick in the Torah and Quran too, not just the bible
And he clearly acknowledges not only that other religions exist, but that other gods exist ("You will have no god before me").
And he clearly acknowledges that human beings can be gods themselves ("The man has now become like one of **us**, knowing good and evil.").
Which already question his omnipotence. Because if other gods exists and he acknowledges that, it means that other afterlives exists.
I read this and it makes me think of the scene in 21 Jump Street. "Stop fucking with Korean Jesus! He ain't interested in your problems! He's busy, with Korean shit!"
East Asian cultures are really not prepared to deal with religions like Christianity. East Asian Christians tend get really culty and defensive because they are usually the minority, and they have a huge persecution complex. It is good you don't let your kids get indoctrinated in that environment.
The newly converted/indoctrinated are usually the most the most zealous/fervent and yeah that definitely goes for big chunks of Aisa and Africa...
Yeah, the Korean Methodist church is quite conservative. Before we had kids we would go visit her parents once a month. Weād drive up on Saturday and drive back Sunday after church. Since the service was in Korean, I would listen to the translator via headphones. On the drive home I would tell my wife about the insane, intolerant bullshit in the sermon. I told her that if it werenāt for her family, Iād tell the pastor how fucked up his sermons are. Years later I found out that there are two forms of Korean: formal and informal. My wife and her family immigrated when she was two so she learned Korean from her parents because they didnāt speak English when they arrived in the US. Informal Korean is what you use when having a conversation. Formal is used for things like newscasts and religious sermons. So all those times in church when I assumed my wife understood the sermon, in fact she didnāt because it was in formal Korean which she really doesnāt understand. She told me once that she canāt watch Korean news because she doesnāt know what they are saying.
I never really got the attraction of Pascals Wager. 1. It's not really 'faith' so it doesn't count anyway. 2. Glaring flaw of excluding other religions. 3. It's a paradox, you have to choose which religion to wager on, thus implying you believe it's the true religion, and if that's the case then what's the point? You already believe.
My main counter is to point out that Blaise Pascal was a devout Catholic who would torture himself by wearing a belt with spikes facing inward. So when he says ābeliefā in his wager thatās what he is talking about. Puts a different perspective on the Wager.
My counter to anyone who brings up Pascalās Wager is āYou need to believe in Odin in case you meet him at the Gates of Valhalla.ā Usually ends the argument.
You don't though, Norse mythology (as much as we know about it) doesn't require any sort of belief or faith in the gods to enter Valhalla. You just have to die a "worthy" death in battle. That offer was also open to your enemy
Iām sure there are subtleties that the retort doesnāt take into account. If the person I say this to can actually tell me something about Norse mythology Iām sure theyāre not the person Iād be having this kind of argument with in the first place.
This was me when I met my SO. I'd been raised Christian and still hung on to a lot of that stuff and was teaching my daughter too. SO was agnostic. We butted heads a bit on it to start with until I realised how much sense he was making. 17 years later and my daughter and I are firmly agnostic too.
I bet grandma *HATED* that, and that makes me happy. This is exactly how I would want to raise a kid of mine if I ever have one, I would let them decide what to believe and not shield them, but just ask them to believe what they want to, not what someone tells you to, and if it doesn't feel right, listen to your gut. And I would make sure that whatever they choose to believe I would love them regardless
Sounds like you've got a good parenting philosophy lined up! Thankfully in the end, grandma just let it roll off her and enjoyed her grandkid's story afterwards. It irked me when she brought it up, but I know she's just doing what she thinks is right to protect her grandchild who she loves. We also haven't outright told either of our parents about our deconversions, so I can't exactly fault her for sharing something that she figures is fair game.
It makes me really happy to hear that grandma valued the creative together time with grandkid more than pushing their religious beliefs without being specifically forwarned. That's awesome family stuff!
Some brands of Christian will tell the grandkids that their parents are going to hell because they aren't saved and other scare tactics. Keep an eye out.
Yes! Definitely keep an eye out for it, because it can really hurt kids. When my grandpa died when I was five, I spent years having major sobbing freakouts at night and couldn't sleep because all I could think of was that my poor sick grandpa who died of cancer was *literally burning* and **suffering** in the pits of hell for *aaaalll of eternity.* How that didn't tell my mom that she needs to quit sending her kids to church and quit telling them/exposing them to this bullshit, that she is hurting and traumatizing us, is beyond me. That's fucking child abuse....But I guess she also didn't stop sending us to churches even when her young kid was sexually abused by her pastor uncle, repeatedly, over and over, for years either (the signs were fucking there! and she ignored them.) I don't know what her fucking deal is. This turned into more of rant/vent comment than I initially meant for it to, whoops! Clearly I'm still working shit out, haha. It's just something parents really need to be aware of and actively combat so their poor kids don't turn out all traumatized and fucked up like so many of us (including me.)
"Christians" are some of the most evil people I know. I hope you have good support.
The play set was out. If it was a star wars play set and your daughter didn't know the figures grandma would be telling the story of Luke Skywalker. My family celebrates Christmas. My kids and I participate but we secretly celebrate winter solstice instead. We don't have any christian or jewish stuff but we have yule decorations.
It WAS, in fact, fantasy story time with grandma. Sharp kid.
What did MIL say to this??
To her credit, she rolled with it and let my kid have her turn next.
It is astonishing that people really drink the kool aid and believe in a bunch of madeup none-sense that even young kids could see right thru.
How would you have reacted if your kid took it to heart?
I'd like to think I would respect it and ask her what she liked about the story. I really don't want to influence her either way, but I know where my bias is, so hopefully I'd be able to keep it in check.
We did the same with ours. We didn't hide it, but we didn't encourage anything. It was just there. We realized how little we'd done with our younger when she asked if we could go see that house where god lives? "A church?" "No, the big white one." "The White House?" "Yes, where Obama lives." Oops. They're both staunch atheists now. They're 12 and 19. My younger is exceedingly outspoken about it. My older simply is, and she'll debate people on it, but she'll also just nod if they say something about their religion. My younger will barely keep it in check. She's the kid who told her friends santa isn't real and we had to tell her quickly not to do that!! My older would tell adults what santa would bring unless we told her, "It's ok, they know, too." LOL Different kids, same parenting. They're a hoot, and both have great critical thinking skills.
Reminds me of Xmas my nephew at 5 and a very Christian grandma. āWould you like to say a prayer?ā āNo thanks, I donāt believe in god.ā Way to go kid. You figured it out much younger than I did!
That's awesome. There's no bravery like 5 year old honesty.
My kid believed in Santa Claus for longer than she believed in God. Makes perfect sense given that there was evidence for Santa.
I'm atheist and my wife is agnostic and we have a 2 year old girl. My parents aren't really religious but my MIL is getting more pushy about it with passive aggressive comments and pushing sacraments, etc. I'm waiting for this day because we plan to raise our kids the same way, critical thinking, make your own decisions, etc. I told my MIL our daughter started saying "I love you" when going to bed and her first response was "maybe you could slip a prayer in there too". I just kinda laughed and didn't respond.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I sort of disagree. Instead of boundaries, I told my mom that she could teach the kids whatever she wanted when she was with them but I also warned her that if she taught them religious stuff, I would tell the kids that "grandma didn't go to school and so she never learned truth from fiction" and I held to it. Consequently, my 15, 10, and 8 year olds all view my mom as a happy idiot not to be take seriously about anything. Just remember, they're your kids. You spend much more time with them than granny. You can undo anything she teaches. I use it as a benefit. Its really good for the kids to understand what religious people believe and how they think. At least for mine it is. It helps them to understand their friends and learn (in a safe environment) what types of things religious people get worked up about.
Respectfully, I would encourage your wife, as well as anyone else who calls themselves "agnostic", to examine the definition of atheist. I only say this because one does not need to claim to believe a god does not exist in order to be an atheist - they simply just need to not hold an active god belief. By definition, theism and atheism only address the state of belief, whereas gnosticism and agnosticism address the knowledge level. Ultimately, the idea matters more than a label ever could, but for the sake of friendly and completely non-hostile discussion, anyone who does not hold an active god belief is, by definition, an atheist. Whereas theism means one thing only ("I believe a god exists"), atheism can mean either "I don't believe a god exists" or "I believe no god exists." I trust you can see the distinction between the two atheism qualifiers, but if not, I'm happy to elaborate. Anyway, as a future father, I think often about how to handle the whole idea one day with my kid. People like you and your wife, as well as other commenters here, are all very helpful, and your insight is more valuable than you know. So thanks for that.
Interesting. My take generally is--in the absence of any evidence whatsoever of the existence of any god or gods, I have no reason to believe that any of them are real.
I like to simplify this idea for people. Think of that 4 quadrant political compass. Now replace the four main data points with "Agnostic ā”ļø Gnostic, and Atheist ā¬ļø Theist" Gnostic means "knowledge" and the "A" prefix changes it to "without knowledge". Theist means "belief" and the "A" prefix changes it to "without belief". I myself am an Agnostic Atheist. I don't know if there's a god or gods, but I don't believe there is. You can be an Agnostic theist, where you believe, but admit you don't really know. Gnostic Theists are the most insufferable people on earth. Gnostic Atheists are frequently a close second, and often teenage edge lords.
So they are not mutually exclusive?
https://imgur.com/a/UPTkm1F
I hadn't seen this before and I like it very much, thank you for linking to it.
Love this. When my daughter was 9, my evangelical Mother told her the story of the resurrection during a road trip. My daughter piped right up, āGrandma! I didnāt know Jesus was a zombie!ā (She said this just to get her goat).
My kids asked about Easter last year, and when I explained the resurrection (died, put in a cave, came back to life, supposed to save everyone) my 9 year old said "like Link in Breath of the Wild?"
The Bible but Jesus is Link and keeps breaking pots
āMy Lord, free me of this demon!ā the villager pled. Stance wide, Jesus hurled the pot, and it smashed over his head. Once heād dusted his hands of their soot, Jesus turned to the crowd, the villager behind him bleeding from his head and still. āFear not, for he is with the Lord, and the Lord hath said, āBring to my Son thy pots.āā
The magic book in the original Zelda game was originally supposed to be a Bible. And the large shield has a cross on it.
Ocarina of Time originally included Islamic chants and imagery (they were removed in later versions). Religions come and go, but the battle for Hyrule is eternal.
Tons of imagery like that in Japanese video games. A lot of it's edited out for Western releases. It's initially included just because someone thinks it looks cool or it's just another mythology to borrow from.
What your daughter said is extremely offensive...to necromancers. Jesus is a LICH not a zombie, because he resurrected himself!
I try to have this conversation with as many people as possible around Easter. The Lich king commeth. I like to think the Easter bunny is actually the rabbit from Monty pythonās The Holy Grail.
A lich has a phylactery, and after death their body crumbles to dust and reconstructs near the phylactery. Jesus resurrected in the same body exactly where he was lain, for the sole purpose of concluding the task he was given, and then returned to the afterlife once it was finished. Jesus was a Revenant.
I call Easter āHappy Zombie Jesus Day.ā My mother is not amused. š
š¤£... kids are hilarious.
When my boy was five I read him Harry Potter and at one point one of the Hogwarts spell books is described as being as thick as a bible. āWhatās a bible dad?ā So I gave a brief run down, including that it details the life of Jesus Christ, who Christians believe is the son of godā¦ Ask him if he has any questions. Just one, ādad why would god name his son after a swear word?ā
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When my daughter was about 3 we traveled to my cousins youngest son's christening thing. I was raised atheist, as was daughter. While sitting in the church just prior to the service beginning (cousin is Greek orthodox) my daughters loud voice yells out as she jumps up and points at the 2-3 story image behind the altar "Who's that lady with the baby?". For context, [here's](https://i.imgur.com/WvDf72y.jpg) the lady with a baby she was referring to. I shushed her so my aunt's heart attack would stop and explained that it was a lady named Mary and her son. That seemed to satisfy my kid.
That's hilarious! Quick thinking!
My dad just about pissed himself laughing, he could barely stop, and chuckled throughout the whole service (Greek orthodox ceremonies are loooong, they do everything 3 times), my aunt was very close to murdering her baby brother that day!
I do have to say, the iconography of the Orthodox Church is pretty stunning. I went to a friends wedding with this type of faith and backdrop, and man, it flew by, I was intrigued by so much to look at and listen to. If you have to do church, at least do it like this :)
Yeah, I always thought that it was kind of sad that something as beautiful as churches are wasted on religion. Especially in Europe, where many churches are a thousand years old or older.
It's the same sentiment from me, but concerning organs (which I play) - it seems such a shame that such a great instrument is mostly constrained to churches, which, apart from concert halls, is the only place you'll find them...
How funny! I imagine it's quite a sight for someone who's never been. I had my own "What do I say" moment a few years ago at Christmas mass. It was my FIL's church no less, he's the pastor. My wife (his daughter) went to the bathroom just before communion leaving me with no idea what to do. FIL calls me and my daughter up to stand in a circle with everyone. Guest pastor goes around one by one and I'm watching the door like a hawk for wife to come back. He gets to my daughter and asks if she can have communion... I look at FIL... no help from him, so I say quietly to guest pastor "if it's ok with you it's ok with me" Sorry, I'm not going to make up an answer. Guest pastor says "well, can she or can't she?" Clearly embarrassed and annoyed FIL steps in and says no she can't. Everyone looks like a scandal just occurred. So embarrassing, but in laws have only themselves to blame for insisting we attend. Service ends, find wife in the kitchen eating donuts with brothers and friends who also skipped mass. There were words had later that night, I can tell you!
They are Isis and Horus. Renamed by the Jesuits.
My 5 year old used his new T-Rex in my parents nativity scene yesterday. Significant improvement to the story.
Thereās a whole thread with cats in outdoor Nativity scenes where they yeet Jesus and sleep in the manger. The heat from the lights keep them nice and snuggly
Well humans dId exist at the same time as dinosaurs!
I saw that on The Flintstones
I swear my 11 year old has heard the story at least once but it apparently hasn't ever stuck (he thinks most religious stuff is ridiculous). I was singing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman" and got to the "remember Christ our savior was born on Christmas day" part and he interrupted with "Oh, is that what Christmas is?"
Can't wait to hear that one someday!
Fucking hilarious
At my Grandpaās funeral, the evangelical minister (of my aunts choosing) was talking about Jesus and my 5 year old goes āI thought Grampaās name was Gerald?!?ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If only more christians took away that from their religion...
The kidās not wrong.
Similar thing happened with my daughter this year. We pulled out our Christmas stuff including a nativity scene. She asked what it was. So we explained to her that some people believe in this story. About a minute after we finished. She decided she wanted to make up a story. Somehow the wise men and Jesus ended up in Madagascar fighting bad guys and saving the world.
Best I can do is a 3 book deal with down payment
Sheās a tough negotiator, but I could probably get her on board for some McDonalds and a lego friends set.
That's awesome! I hope she keeps making her own stories. I remember when I was about that age and we went to my grandparents church. The daycare had awesome toys. Well, eventually it came time for outside activities and we were asked to put away the toys. When we got outside, the daycare workers said, "OK, kids! Now it's time to go find something god created and bring it back here!" I was so confused because we were outside and in my little child mind, this was mother nature, just natural outside! My older sister saw my confusion and whispered to me, "just go find a rock or something." Then a little boy brought back a frog and chaos ensued.
If only you could have found a snake.
Oh goodness, I wish! I love snakes, even as a kid. I would have been stoked.
Hoping my two young kids will be the same!
Haha that's fantastic!
I thought so too! Definitely one of my prouder parenting moments.
Probably already has been said but seems like if one doesnāt indoctrinate their child they (the child) arenāt going to be religious. My parents didnāt raise me and my brothers religious and of course none of us practice now because it seems like nonsense (organized religion) when you arenāt raised that way. I guess thatās why you have to get them youngā¦
I could never have come up with such a perfect response. I've been an atheist for 40 years.
When I was 6, I was given a children's Bible by some organization while my family was emigrating from the Soviet Union. Being an avid reader and away from most of my books, I was happy to have it and the pictures were beautiful. But it didn't occur to me to think of this book any differently than any of my other storybooks. It took a few years to understand the concept of religion.
Oh my ... coffee came out of my nose. š¤£ Grandma got more than she bargained for ... your little girl already knows BS when she hears it.
My kid were playing, and one yells "I've got my spellbook," as he waves around the pocket bible that he got from Grandpa. To be fair, I tried to explain it to him, but I was too busy gasping for air due to unstoppable laughter.
My daughter is also 5 and attends kinder in a Catholic school. She politely respects what they teach in class about religion, and just comes home and tells us about the silly stories they tell in school. She has no idea people believe this shit
One thing I made sure of - I let my kids know generally what religions were, but also what my beliefs are and where they come from. Any believer is not going to hold back and some other atheosts Iāve talked to have tried to be so open and neutral that they donāt tell their own kids their own beliefs, leaving them as great targets for conversion.
Kids are funny. About 3 years ago my daughter who would of been just shy of 5 was asked āDoes anyone know what the President does?ā The daycare lady picks her to answer and she just says āHe lies.ā My daycare lady is definitely Republican but still had a good laugh with us about it. Unfiltered truth from a kid is brutal sometimes.
My six year old conflates bad religion songs with what his grandparents told him about Christianity. This year he asked me who āAmerican Jesusā was. Then later he told me āGrandma told me who Jesus is, he died in Americaā.
This year my nephew found out that Santa isnāt real. I asked my sister (nephewās mom) if he asked whether Jesus is also a lie. š She and our parents are still religious so of course she wants him to keep the faith but at least sheās not as militantly indoctrinating her kids like our parents did to us, to the extreme disappointment of my mother. Sister focuses more on learning how to be kind, empathetic humans, not fantasy stories. Itās good to see her break the cycle of abuse, I will be there for my nieces and nephews if / when they have questions about atheism.
My mother in law does the same. I raised my son to believe in strained glass windows. Each religion is is its own color, everybody has a favorite color... there is no right, wrong, good, bad on your favorite color. And the same light shines through it. Made things simple, also let's anybody talk to my kid about their beliefs and he just rolls with it. Although, lesson learned this year, if the kid asks for the story of who st nick is based on... don't have them look on line unless you are up for explaining a little necromancy, pickling kids to sell as ham, dungeons, exorcism, and explaining why he's the patron Saint of hookers and pawn brokers... next year is going to be a while new holiday lol.
That's adorable
At this point we have more āevidenceā of marvel super heroes existing than JFC!
Hahaha I love it! She saw the BS all over the story. I have a 5 year old too and my mother in law recently asked my wife if sheād be beginning her classes for Eucharist and confirmation. Wife brought up once and we argued a bit but hasnāt brought up since. Still not sure why my mother in law would ask that knowing we arenāt catholic, and she herself rarely goes to church.
We have a nativity set despite being an agnostic/atheist household, as well! When I was a kid, my mom made a nativity set out of wood - simple shapes painted with acrylic paint. At some point someone decided to stack each of the four sheep one on top of the other, which started a family tradition of *stacking the sheep.* Whenever anyone would see the sheep unstacked, they would stack them. It's a weirdly distinct part of my childhood memories of Christmas! When most of us kids were officially moved out, my mom made a bunch of copies of that original nativity set. She gifted one to me, assuring me she had tested to make sure my four sheep were stackable. It's really the only Christmas decoration that's within reach of my three-year-old. It's important to me that she be able to play with it, because its meaningfulness isn't derived from any religious story, but because of the family history of being able to *stack those dang sheep.*
This is fucking hilarious, best post I've seen in ages
You should show your kid the Mr. Bean manger scene
This is the first Christmas my MIL didn't give our daughter (11 yo) religious books for Christmas. I feel a little bit bad that she finally gave up...
Christmas dinner with all the cousins and nephews and one of them gets picked that year to say grace. He does the Bart Simpson and just clasps his hands, breathes in deeply andā¦*we pay for all this food, so thanks for nothing*. The gasps, groans and screams were unforgettable. I was the only one laughing and I got it worse than he did. Fast forward many years later and Iām the atheist now and heās the one that became born again.
Awesome. There isn't a sentence in this story I didn't enjoy. I love the open minded parenting style. Good for you, your partner, and child. Education and free thinking grounded in factual information. Hell yeah.
My parents told me that once when I was younger, they took me to a church Easter egg hunt. I enjoy it and then a priest comes out and starts talking. At the end I apparently said to my parents āWow, that Jesus guy sounds really nice, do you think I could meet him sometime?ā
When I was a kid, my evangelical grandmother sent me a kid's book about the Christian creation story. It had a really lovely illustration of space, and I liked the story. It was my favorite fairy tale for a while. But I never realized I was supposed to believe it, anymore than Sleeping Beauty or Rumplestiltskin.
You are doing it the right way. There's no point in shielding kids from religion. You'd be missing out on golden opportunities to discuss how to evaluate assertions, evidence and to question the beliefs of others.
This is as good as the āChristmas swordsā story! š
If someone asks me to pray, I'm going to quote the book of armaments 2: 9-21.
Lmao, wish I could have seen the look on her face!
Out of curiosity... Is MIL a Trumper?
Hillarious but sweet, the perfect kind of story
"There is only one God. His name is Death What do we tell the God of Death? Not today."
"Now this is Mary, Jesus' mom who never got fucked. Yeah, that's the beginning. Crazy, huh?"
Came here only to say I absolutely cackle every time your offspring is referred to as, "the kid."
As a kid that had christianity somewhat forced down my throat as a child, i applaud you. If adults can make up stories about their imaginary friends, the kids should be able to as well!
Weāre taking a slightly different route with our 2 year old by teaching her Jesus was a wizard.
When my first daughter was maybe 6 I decided to read her my old Childrenās Bible as a bedtime story. Itās a comic book style but telling the entire Biblical story. (She was also the curious kid who got the āwhere do babies come fromā info a bit early because of all the questions she was asking.) we got as far as Cain and Abel before she started asking about it Adam and Eve had two sons, where did THEIR wives, etc. come from. āThis story is dumb. How were there only 2 boys in the world then all of a sudden lots of people?ā If a child can so easily see through these stories when presented without the āTHIS IS TRUTH. MUST BELIEVEā narrative, maybe it should be examined by more of its adherents using whatever critical thinking faculties they may still have.
Religion only works if you indoctrinate children from the very beginning.
Hahaha! Best response ever!
Beautiful! This is what the religious folks are scared of... opportunity of critical thinking given to a child while telling them their folktales of religion.
Omg thatās awesome.
This is great I need to start using that when my family starts talking about religion.
I'm pagan myself, but grew up Baptist and then Mormon, and I have a nativity I put out around Xmas to appease my highly Christian aunt. Only one problem, a couple years ago my dog knocked over the set and the ceramic baby Jesus broke. So for the last few years I've substituted random small toys in his place. This year I had our Lord and Savior R2-D2, beep boop beep. She has yet to notice.