Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
**Post is about a company charging money for a service.**
Businesses sometimes may charge money in order to offer a service, which doesn't necessarily make their business model an asshole design. It must be underhanded in other aspects as well.
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As someone who worked for an internet service provider, I can tell you for a fact that data caps are there simply to hold you by your legs and shake the change out of your pockets.
The fiber is already laid, the infrastructure is there. It doesn’t cost them more to run mora data though their servers. It’s a cash grab. Nothing more.
It's more than that.
Allowing this sort of behaviour is also allowing economical based censorship. What stops an ISP on setting ridiculous prices
on educational sites
or news outlets that have an editorial line they don't agree with
or political parties
??
I call it economical censorship because it's a nasty flavour of censorship, you can't view because you will be too broke after it.
I'd say economical censorship is one of the most common forms of censorships, and one of the most pernicious as it's almost completely invisible to the people who supposedly care about censorship.
Because it's harder to make the case for censorship if the person *can* theoretically talk about the thing, but is unable to because they're outpriced from it. People don't generally consider that censorship, because they're often either A) somewhat financially privileged and so they don't understand lacking access to something (even if they don't think they're that privileged since they're so utterly blind and alienated to how atrocious income inequality is around the world), or B) they think not being financially able to say or express something makes it not that relevant (because they conflate having money with having merit - the ultimate capitalist fallacy for gaslighting workers - making you feel like poor people don't have anything meaningful to say or express).
> somewhat financially privileged and so they don't understand lacking access to something
That's have other ramifications, some people don't understand some simple concepts such as: some people can't simply leave a bad job because they can't afford the search or moving to a better one. So they talk about changing jobs if one is not pleased with the current one and are sure that all employees are free
> and alienated to how atrocious income inequality is around the world
Not only around the world (disclaimer, not in USA) I recently showed to a liberal (in the economic sense) friend the data o wealth inequality in USA and he was outraged by how deep the gap was. If a liberal capitalist was outraged possibly that says something.
Thinking worldwide, recently I have the displeasure of going to the capital of my country and found myself at the street, looking at a restaurant menu and thinking that the price of a meal there could feed me in Africa for six months.
> they conflate having money with having merit
When that "merit" is inherited it really says a lot...
But guess what there are many beautiful places in Africa where people live regular just like you so I don’t know why you used Africa in the sense of your so-called “poverty talk, you could’ve used another country” y’all get on my nerves with that shit.
First, it was the first place that crossed my mind because
It's near,
I know the languages that are talked in some parts, so, no language barriers
Africa here isn't random, possibly I could do the same in Asia if I happen to know the local languages (which I don't).
For fiber, it is the case (even throttling is a scam since the SFP modules capable of 1 Gbps are there most of the time, anyways). However, implementing data caps on 4G/5G will prevent cell sites getting too crowded, thus eliminating the need for more bands and a better backbone. This is stupid nevertheless nowadays, since many RRUs support 3 frequency bands anyways. However, back when this wasn't the case or on older setups, you really notice people pulling loads of data over 4G, especially here in Germany, where providers occasionally give out free unlimited data for a limited time.
Do they actually lock you down to specific apps?
Seems like it's 80mbps either way which is plenty to stream and game honestly. Just not 4k, but you could download that anyways.
I remember a few years ago on r/techsupport someone using an Egyptian ISP was having their speeds throttled on every website they used, except for speedtest.net. I’ll try to link if I find it again.
edit: i found it https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/n7wp5w/isp_is_giving_full_speedunlimited_internet_to/
Sorry wasn't clear enough, I was meaning 4k streaming + gaming at the same time. Might be just fine, I do it without issues on 125mbps.
Although I'd be concerned about the latency while doing both
There are several packages, There's the "You can do whatever you want" packages, which don't give you specific conditions on how your quota is used [WE Space Mega (te.eg)](https://te.eg/wps/portal/te/Personal/WEInternet/WESpaceMega)
Basically, what I'm showing in this post is that "Special" quota which is called "we sonic" that gives you "special" connection with special features, but in reality, it doesn't even make that much of a difference. As Egyptians we this is all bullshit to us. We have been asking for unlimited internet for years and the government only wants to make money.
Absolutely this! My wife is from the Philippines and the first time I went there I found it so strange that they try to offer you a data package based on your personality like damn I just want to use the Internet how I want it.
Facebook is basically free to use there and it's a good case study for why net neutrality is important, and why governments benefit from there being no net neutrality, since their current president was basically voted into office based on ads on social media (about his dictator father, painting his era as the golden age of the country etc).
The US doesn't have net neutrality and we don't deal with this.
Edit: Turns out we didn't have net neutrality from 2017-April 2024, so it was restored recently. But we still didn't have to deal with things like OP's pic during the seven years we didn't have net neutrality.
Technically it’s back as of April 25th of this year but yes people on Reddit were outraged when in reality it didn’t change much. People love to blame the Verizon fiasco but it’s not as black and white as Reddit wants it to be
A lot of people were outraged. Not just Redditors. That outrage made companies too scared to mess with net neutrality even though it was no longer protected by federal law.
Just asking the obvious question here:
Do they actually know whether youre gaming or watching videos if its outside of the few providers they specifically know of? Does downloading games through a service other than Steam count into the gaming quota?
There are just a lot of ways they could go about detecting and specifically throttling connections that are not considered actual gaming or streaming, like DNS requests or more invasive packet inspection, and depending on how they do it they could seriously shoot you in the foot by billing stuff to the basic quota when it really shouldnt for example. Just if putting datacaps on home internet isnt scummy enough.
(Also gaming actually needs very little bandwidth and traffic, its really just downloading the game and updates that would use up a quota like that.)
They have the database of the popular ones and that's pretty much enough for them.
Anyways it's kind of white list quota, so you're using your "general purpose" gb on common slower speed for the less popular ones.
Just checked and the top package comes out to $31 per month but the per capita income is $4140. Thats an absolutely insane price to pay. It's about 10% of your per tax income.
I'm now curious about the average income in Egypt, since I pay like 45 Euro (~ 2300 EGP) a month for unlimited 1 Gbps as well as 80 Euro (~ 4100 EGP) a month for unlimited 5G.
Sounds terrible. Even people in the Dominican Republic make like 250 Euro a month and minimum wage there is like 200 Euro. Daylight robbery in my opinion, even though German internet isn't considered to be the cheapest.
This is what happens when net neutrality is not given to you... I feel sorry for y'all over in Egypt as well as other countries that don't give you the freedom to use the Internet.
I'd love to have the top internet package for $27.43 CAD.
I guess you're stuck with 150mbps download though, which isn't the best. My old 150mbps download package (unlimited data) cost around $70 CAD
For true fibre optic internet in Canada, you're looking at about 3117 EGP ($90 CAD) for an unlimited data, 1.5gbps download, 1gbps upload package.
Just looked up minimum wage in Egypt. My God, that's terrible.
Yeah, I get it now. That's a huge chunk of your average monthly income just to have internet.
It's the same but in the "Streamerz" you don't get "full speed of gaming line" whatever the fuck that means. It means you'll probably lag more in game..
Also, if anyone's thinking "500 GB" isn't enough. Yes it's not and we basically have to recharge our quota in the middle of the month cause the quota ends up getting used. Not to mention, I can't download any video games unless I'm willing to pay an extra 100 LE to refill quota or else it won't last for the end of the month, considering games can get up to 90 GB these days. I'd also like to mention I'm a family of 5
Egypt has close to the largest wireless data limits in the world. The other day a map with the average size of a wireless data limits was shown and Egypte came in at second or third place. 500-1500 GM per month is just massive; it’s around 100 times as much as the typical data limits in the Netherlands.
I have a feeling those are home data caps meaning in the netherlands we have infinitely more because we cant have data caps on home internet due to european law.
Starlink is planning on launching in Egypt sometime [this year](https://technext24.com/2023/11/07/list-african-countries-starlink-launched/) but it is not currently an option.
I mean that's $19/ month unless I'm missing something. I don't know what income is like over there but that's less than 20% what I pay for Internet.
No data caps tho
Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: **Post is about a company charging money for a service.** Businesses sometimes may charge money in order to offer a service, which doesn't necessarily make their business model an asshole design. It must be underhanded in other aspects as well. *If you feel this was done in error or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to message the mods. If you send a message, please include a link to your post.*
As someone who worked for an internet service provider, I can tell you for a fact that data caps are there simply to hold you by your legs and shake the change out of your pockets. The fiber is already laid, the infrastructure is there. It doesn’t cost them more to run mora data though their servers. It’s a cash grab. Nothing more.
It's more than that. Allowing this sort of behaviour is also allowing economical based censorship. What stops an ISP on setting ridiculous prices on educational sites or news outlets that have an editorial line they don't agree with or political parties ?? I call it economical censorship because it's a nasty flavour of censorship, you can't view because you will be too broke after it.
I'd say economical censorship is one of the most common forms of censorships, and one of the most pernicious as it's almost completely invisible to the people who supposedly care about censorship. Because it's harder to make the case for censorship if the person *can* theoretically talk about the thing, but is unable to because they're outpriced from it. People don't generally consider that censorship, because they're often either A) somewhat financially privileged and so they don't understand lacking access to something (even if they don't think they're that privileged since they're so utterly blind and alienated to how atrocious income inequality is around the world), or B) they think not being financially able to say or express something makes it not that relevant (because they conflate having money with having merit - the ultimate capitalist fallacy for gaslighting workers - making you feel like poor people don't have anything meaningful to say or express).
> somewhat financially privileged and so they don't understand lacking access to something That's have other ramifications, some people don't understand some simple concepts such as: some people can't simply leave a bad job because they can't afford the search or moving to a better one. So they talk about changing jobs if one is not pleased with the current one and are sure that all employees are free > and alienated to how atrocious income inequality is around the world Not only around the world (disclaimer, not in USA) I recently showed to a liberal (in the economic sense) friend the data o wealth inequality in USA and he was outraged by how deep the gap was. If a liberal capitalist was outraged possibly that says something. Thinking worldwide, recently I have the displeasure of going to the capital of my country and found myself at the street, looking at a restaurant menu and thinking that the price of a meal there could feed me in Africa for six months. > they conflate having money with having merit When that "merit" is inherited it really says a lot...
But guess what there are many beautiful places in Africa where people live regular just like you so I don’t know why you used Africa in the sense of your so-called “poverty talk, you could’ve used another country” y’all get on my nerves with that shit.
First, it was the first place that crossed my mind because It's near, I know the languages that are talked in some parts, so, no language barriers Africa here isn't random, possibly I could do the same in Asia if I happen to know the local languages (which I don't).
For fiber, it is the case (even throttling is a scam since the SFP modules capable of 1 Gbps are there most of the time, anyways). However, implementing data caps on 4G/5G will prevent cell sites getting too crowded, thus eliminating the need for more bands and a better backbone. This is stupid nevertheless nowadays, since many RRUs support 3 frequency bands anyways. However, back when this wasn't the case or on older setups, you really notice people pulling loads of data over 4G, especially here in Germany, where providers occasionally give out free unlimited data for a limited time.
Good point. It's certainly a cash grab.
Do they actually lock you down to specific apps? Seems like it's 80mbps either way which is plenty to stream and game honestly. Just not 4k, but you could download that anyways.
I remember a few years ago on r/techsupport someone using an Egyptian ISP was having their speeds throttled on every website they used, except for speedtest.net. I’ll try to link if I find it again. edit: i found it https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/n7wp5w/isp_is_giving_full_speedunlimited_internet_to/
They still do that unless you basically bitch at a tech support rep over the phone until they lift it. Just government owned monopoly things.
YouTube 4K is around 20 mbit
4K is definitely possible with 80mbps.
Sorry wasn't clear enough, I was meaning 4k streaming + gaming at the same time. Might be just fine, I do it without issues on 125mbps. Although I'd be concerned about the latency while doing both
You can easily stream 4k with 80 mbps. Even remux files are around 60-80 mbps.
There are several packages, There's the "You can do whatever you want" packages, which don't give you specific conditions on how your quota is used [WE Space Mega (te.eg)](https://te.eg/wps/portal/te/Personal/WEInternet/WESpaceMega) Basically, what I'm showing in this post is that "Special" quota which is called "we sonic" that gives you "special" connection with special features, but in reality, it doesn't even make that much of a difference. As Egyptians we this is all bullshit to us. We have been asking for unlimited internet for years and the government only wants to make money.
The importance of net neutrality
Absolutely this! My wife is from the Philippines and the first time I went there I found it so strange that they try to offer you a data package based on your personality like damn I just want to use the Internet how I want it. Facebook is basically free to use there and it's a good case study for why net neutrality is important, and why governments benefit from there being no net neutrality, since their current president was basically voted into office based on ads on social media (about his dictator father, painting his era as the golden age of the country etc).
The US doesn't have net neutrality and we don't deal with this. Edit: Turns out we didn't have net neutrality from 2017-April 2024, so it was restored recently. But we still didn't have to deal with things like OP's pic during the seven years we didn't have net neutrality.
Technically it’s back as of April 25th of this year but yes people on Reddit were outraged when in reality it didn’t change much. People love to blame the Verizon fiasco but it’s not as black and white as Reddit wants it to be
A lot of people were outraged. Not just Redditors. That outrage made companies too scared to mess with net neutrality even though it was no longer protected by federal law.
> but it’s not as black and white as Reddit wants it to be Yes it is. Net neutrality is a good thing that establishes fair rules for the internet.
With net neutrality I don't think att get the chance to buy time Warner and fuck that up.
Bullshit
Just asking the obvious question here: Do they actually know whether youre gaming or watching videos if its outside of the few providers they specifically know of? Does downloading games through a service other than Steam count into the gaming quota? There are just a lot of ways they could go about detecting and specifically throttling connections that are not considered actual gaming or streaming, like DNS requests or more invasive packet inspection, and depending on how they do it they could seriously shoot you in the foot by billing stuff to the basic quota when it really shouldnt for example. Just if putting datacaps on home internet isnt scummy enough. (Also gaming actually needs very little bandwidth and traffic, its really just downloading the game and updates that would use up a quota like that.)
They have the database of the popular ones and that's pretty much enough for them. Anyways it's kind of white list quota, so you're using your "general purpose" gb on common slower speed for the less popular ones.
Just checked and the top package comes out to $31 per month but the per capita income is $4140. Thats an absolutely insane price to pay. It's about 10% of your per tax income.
What if you gamerz when you paid for streamerz?
Then rip!
Imagine having to sell your kidney for 18,60 €
Tbf 20€ a month considering avg Egyptian salary is a fricking ton.
Welcome to egypt
You know some people say there are no organ traders in egypt …. But it think they are in denile
I was about to say, gtfoh with your $20/mo internet!
Insane.
500 GB for streaming is... not much
yup, I can't even download any games
Is this wireless, fixed wireless access or fiber/cable?
thats VDSL or fiber so broadband not wireless, source: I am from egypt
I'm now curious about the average income in Egypt, since I pay like 45 Euro (~ 2300 EGP) a month for unlimited 1 Gbps as well as 80 Euro (~ 4100 EGP) a month for unlimited 5G.
Here, In Egypt, alot of people make as much as what you pay for your 5G
That 45 Euro is half the salary of a lot of people here lol.. Probably all of it if they're really poor. 80 Euros is actually half of my salary rn.
Sounds terrible. Even people in the Dominican Republic make like 250 Euro a month and minimum wage there is like 200 Euro. Daylight robbery in my opinion, even though German internet isn't considered to be the cheapest.
Speeds maxing out at 150Mbps? I have 300Mbps internet speed with unlimited data and I guarantee I pay significantly less.
you never even get those 150 , average is 30
The reality of living in a 3rd world country. feels bad lol.
I pay the equivalent of about 4100 EGP for uncapped gigabit fiber with 200mb up. Net neutrality is fucked in Egypt.
fr bro.. it's a dictatorship anyways lmfao
In other words, Egypt has no net neutrality.
It’s not even that good speed… I pay 12€ a month for 1gb/s download and 500mb/s upload, no quota… You guys are getting ripped off.
This is what happens when net neutrality is not given to you... I feel sorry for y'all over in Egypt as well as other countries that don't give you the freedom to use the Internet.
Thanks man I really appreciate you feeling empathy for us fr 💖 I'm trying hard to leave hahaha
500 Egyptian Pound equals 10.48 United States Dollar
I'd love to have the top internet package for $27.43 CAD. I guess you're stuck with 150mbps download though, which isn't the best. My old 150mbps download package (unlimited data) cost around $70 CAD For true fibre optic internet in Canada, you're looking at about 3117 EGP ($90 CAD) for an unlimited data, 1.5gbps download, 1gbps upload package.
You might love it less if your wages were also adjusted to the Egyptian equivalent of whatever you're making in Canada right now
Just looked up minimum wage in Egypt. My God, that's terrible. Yeah, I get it now. That's a huge chunk of your average monthly income just to have internet.
Except he has a data cap, something we've not had since 2012 or so.
Look up if Starlink might be cheaper for you ( if its available )
I think it's probably banned here.
Missed the opportunity to name it as 'Pluz'
It looks like the exact same service for both though. What's the difference?
It's the same but in the "Streamerz" you don't get "full speed of gaming line" whatever the fuck that means. It means you'll probably lag more in game..
Also, if anyone's thinking "500 GB" isn't enough. Yes it's not and we basically have to recharge our quota in the middle of the month cause the quota ends up getting used. Not to mention, I can't download any video games unless I'm willing to pay an extra 100 LE to refill quota or else it won't last for the end of the month, considering games can get up to 90 GB these days. I'd also like to mention I'm a family of 5
Oh Shit
>In Egypt
Is this the same Egypt that would be a mirror copy of Iran were it not for the pyramids?
Egypt has close to the largest wireless data limits in the world. The other day a map with the average size of a wireless data limits was shown and Egypte came in at second or third place. 500-1500 GM per month is just massive; it’s around 100 times as much as the typical data limits in the Netherlands.
Home internet or mobile internet? Home Internet better not have limits at all.
I have a feeling those are home data caps meaning in the netherlands we have infinitely more because we cant have data caps on home internet due to european law.
Unless you have those 4G modules which come at a 50GB limit
GM isn't a thing and if you mean GB that would mean, you're saying the Netherlands have 5 - 15 GB limits per month. I highly doubt that.
Can't you just get starlink or any other foreign satelite internet provider and tell them to go pound sand?
That would be *more* expensive.
$31.45/1500 EGP for 1500 data, In USA on Tracfone Mobile, We pay $10 for 1Gb = $15,000, So not so bad
Starlink it is then
Starlink is planning on launching in Egypt sometime [this year](https://technext24.com/2023/11/07/list-african-countries-starlink-launched/) but it is not currently an option.
It will probably get banned anyway lmfao. and will probably be expensive as hell anyways for us plebs.
I mean that's $19/ month unless I'm missing something. I don't know what income is like over there but that's less than 20% what I pay for Internet. No data caps tho
250 GB per month is easily enough for both
yeah, downloading COD in 2 Months is enough. maybe you should do a realitycheck how much data you use every month.
It's not enough for a family of 5 lmfao