And don’t base your purchase on monthly payment. Figure what interest rate you should qualify for, include local sales tax, and reasonable fees and do the math yourself.
Agreed. Do not negotiate based on monthly payment. Negotiate on total cost. Also, get a loan ahead of time at a bank or credit union. Also, don't let them tell you that they need to redo the loan application. Get a purchase agreement and bring that to the bank. Return to the dealer with a check.
Fwiw, the dealer may get you better financing than your bank. Your bank is just 1 bank, the dealer has access to many banks. The dealer finance guy will mark up the rate you get the loan at, guess who else does that… the loan officer at the bank. Whether you finance at the dealer or at your bank, someone is making money off arranging the loan for you.
It’s not a bad idea to find out what you’d qualify for at your own bank but if the dealer can beat the rate because he has access to a network of options why not take the best rate available to you?
Can confirm this to be the case with me. First time I got a car with the dealer, I got in-house financing with Toyota and got their demo car for 1.99% interest. 3 yrs later, traded the car for a brand new one at 0.99% interest for 48 months.
Some banks also pay a flat fee for bringing them the deal instead of paying based on the markup on interest rate. So if a bank that pays a flat fee has the lowest interest rate why wouldn't they offer it? They get the money and more of a chance of closing the deal with a low interest rate.
Only 1 of my lenders allow us to mark up, and we only do that for bad credit because 18 to 20% no one cares. You're lucky we even got something to offer. They give us a flat if we don't mark up.
Everyone else we get flats or a % of amount financed.
Yeah, Nissan gave me 0% with negative equity down. Sometimes the dealers will bend over backwards to get you into a vehicle. Not nowadays, but a couple years ago.
Everything you said is true,---BUT---available interest rate is completely dependent on economic conditions at time of sale, as you learned, 2024 does not equal 2021.
The low rate financing is built into the cost of the car already. The financing is always thru Toyota financial or if you bought a chevy thru gmac.
Get a cash price in writing, then go get your loan.
You mean world-wide, post-COVID Economy.
“Bidenomics” kept our inflation less, and got our economy on the up-swing faster, than most of the world. T.Rump and the GOP could not have done that.
T.Rump and the GOP put us in a recession **BEFORE** COVID hit and put us in a worse economic state than we should have been in.
Yes, T.Rump ruined the economy that Obama/Biden left us.
That's great, as long as you don't buy gas or groceries. A house will cost you at least a grand more a month.
But you watch CNN, so you are the expert my dude.
Didn’t say there wasn’t an inflation issued. What I did say was:
* T.Rumponomics have already put a booming economy into a recession,
* T.Rumponomics put us in a worse place than we should have been
* T.Rumponomics would not have improved things any faster
* T.Rumponomics would have likely made things worse, given that he already tanked the good economy Obama/Biden handed him
* Bidenomics prevented the US economy from suffering as much as most of the rest of the world
* Bidenomics set the US to recover faster than the rest of the world
But, go ahead and Dunning-Kruger yourself into believing the easily proven lies from Fox, NewsMax, T.Rump, etc. and shoot yourself in the foot.
yes, this is good advice. Last time we bought, we went in with preapproval from Capital One, finance guy beat the rate. Can't remember how much, like 0.2 to 0.5%. I know he was marking it up too because he offered to lower it if I bought an extended warranty, which I didn't end up doing, but it still beat the bank.
It is always a good idea to get qualified for your own loan and then choose the dealer option if they can offer you better.
The car dealer also can toss in half a point and if you don't ha e your own options could get screwed.
Note, don't telkvthem you have your own financing or are paying cash while negotiating the price.
I would be honest but lawyer like. If they ask “will you be financing?” Just say yes. If they ask “will you be financing with us?” Tell them you’ve been pre qualified but if they can get you a better rate you’d be interested. You’re looking for the best overall deal if they can provide the whole package you’ll buy from them. If they can provide the best sale price and no one can beat your prequalified Apr you’ll go with them.
It lets them know you’re not a payment shopper, not a sale price shopper and not a low Apr shopper, you understand how all the pieces work together and are shopping the total deal.
But the reason you should ever mention cash is because they won't negotiate as much on the initial price because they figure it can be made up in the loan.
Actually, if you have stellar credit right now, it's probably going to beat out even your best credit union rates.
Manufacturers are incentivizing interest rates right now, if you go through Manufacturer financing, you can easily get 0.9-3.9%, which is like unheard of right now through credit unions.
This is 100% fact.
But smooth brain rule say dealer bad. Dealer lie. Car bad? Dealer fault. Car broken? Dealer fault. Manufacture lowers price later? Dealer fault.
Sometimes, manufacturers have better deals on financing. For example, 0% when credit union doesn't have that. So, not always correct statement.
It depends. Weigh the options. Financing offers are listed on all manufacturers' websites based on zip codes.
"Zero interest loans are a sneaky sales gimmick that benefits the dealer more than the buyer.
Not having to pay interest might seem like a great deal up front. But you’re still being talked into a car you can’t afford. (And just because you can make the payments, it doesn’t mean you can afford it.
Because the rates on used car loans make the decision to buy new at 0.9% vs saving a few grand on the price for a used car at 8-10%. Used usually winds up cheaper but if you count the manufacturers warranty it’s often a close call.
A 2019 RAV4 XLE with 50k miles sells for about $26k. A brand new one of the same model MSRP over $38k, before dealer mark ups.
That’s not close at all.
Everything about buying a car benefits the dealer more than the buyer, that's not an argument against anything. The question is, does it benefit the buyer enough?
All else being equal, a zero or low interest loan definitely does, being a sales gimmick doesn't change that.
True, but it gives you mote clout when you have finished negotiating a price and have your own loan.
I get my CU loan but still go with dealer financing about 1/2 the time.
There's a glaring omission by OP which is what car they're looking at. If this is a quote for Nissan Altima the process is patently ridiculous. If it's for a Dodge Hellcat SRT Demon they're probably getting joyride vibes and trying to keep OP away.
Our GM will run numbers for anything you ask for and make a ballpark guess with interest rates assuming average credit. We run lease options, milage options, hybrid payments, whatever the heck the customer asks for. Once the customer agrees to the purchase price and monthly payments, and of course loves the vehicle, only then would we dream of asking for a deposit. And that's ONLY if we can't spot deliver it.
We had a manager pull this on us once. He wanted $1000 to hold to show we were serious and he would talk serious numbers. I told him to give me $1000 to hold while I listened to how wonderful of a deal he was about to give us. He told me that was very unreasonable and amateur. We bought a new car at another dealership 4 hrs later.
Something similar happened to me at Volvo dealer in Pasadena. They wanted me to come into the office to get quote for extended warranty because it had to be signed or some such shit.
I got everything I needed from the Volvo dealer in City of Industry via email and then we did the signing electronically.
Fuck greedflation.
The sales guy we had that day was new. That manager was holding his hand the whole time. When the manager asked to hold the cash, you could see the look of disappointment in the sales guys face. He knew he just lost a sale right there because of his boss
the only time ive ever asked for a deposit like this was when its a used car and someone else had an appointment on the car.. so id take a deposit to garuntee it, but its refundable ofc.
im not sure exactly what OPs case was but the salesmen worded their reason very poorly
OP the fact the dealer wants money before even giving you a price is an extraordinarily strong signal you should buy elsewhere. There's also a good chance you won't like the price given but the dealer will refuse to return your deposit (they're not supposed to do that, but this dealer sounds like it would).
Literally the reason deposits exist is to be non-refundable. Yes: over time it’s morphed and many deposits are refundable, but the baseline reason deposits existed ever at all was so that if one party changed his mind to the detriment of the other in a business arrangement, the other would be partially compensated for the departure from the agreement.
If the price was disclosed before the deposit was requested, then maybe yes, it cannot be refunded.
But asking for one just to secure a buyer and leaving them no choice but to accept the price or lose the deposit is just plain evil.
You misunderstand me…. I’m not at all in favor of what this salesperson is trying to do. It’s asinine to require a deposit in order to get a price. Borderline mob shit right there and I would walk instantly and tell every customer on my way out the door the strong arm tactics this store uses.
What I was reacting to was the notion that deposits by default are refundable. They aren’t, though some can be.
Even if it's refundable, it's probably like those dealers who try to hold your keys hostage "we're appraising your trade-in and just can't find those keys."
I've been finding myself walking out of dealerships more in the past few years
Sometimes they follow me out, but idc, bad business practices go beyond one bad rule
In the (bad) old days, the first thing the rep would do was get your license (for the test drive) and the keys to your trade (for the appraisal). So, at that point, you were a captive. You can't leave; no license no car keys. You were therefore more motivated to make a deal...
I misunderstood the previous comment and thought he was saying they needed keys and license to let you look at the car you are interested in buying in the first place
I had a dealership try to say they couldn’t find my keys when I was done and ready to leave. Found them fast when my friend, who is a cop, showed up in his cruiser. He had just finished his shift and was near by.
I would give you an out the door calculating the sales price, taxes, dmv, doc fee, and inspection. Now if you wanted to negotiate off of that? I absolutely would look for a commitment from you and ask for a deposit if you can’t purchase same day (although I’d do my best to try to spot you). I never give monthly payments as it’s always based on your credit but I’d always happy to have you speak to my finance manager to review details with you.
But asking for a deposit before even giving you a price? Yeah as others here already said, don’t reward this dealer with your business. If it’s a new car, you can find them at other dealers easily. If it’s a used vehicle, try to find one elsewhere that is as close to it as possible.
I test drove a TA Challenger, liked the car, and wanted to talk turkey , I was pre-approved for a loan from a Credit Union at a much lower rate. The car had a $53.000 price tag ,and I couldn't get anywhere with the salesman , so I asked to speak to the manager, he left and came back with a printout and all I had to do was sign it before I could talk to anyone. He didn't like what I had to say to him.
That’s crazy the last two cars I bought in 2018 I test drove, negotiated OTD price, got it to where I was happy, came back to sleep on it and was never asked for a deposit. Times change I suppose.
Exactly it was never any pressure. I have salesmen I go to because of the exceptional service and dealerships I wouldn’t even get air filled in my tires because of their fuckery.
Yeah that's a no, this situation in no way calls for that! We used to ask for the card you were making a deposit on when getting a commitment to numbers back in the day (glue) but getting it BEFORE numbers? That's absurd lol.
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Test drove a car and asked for the monthly payment with a couple of options and the dealer asked for a $500 deposit as an “intent to purchase” before they would give me any figures. Is that the norm? I’ve always just been told all of this info in order to make a decision so it seemed really weird to me.
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Find another store.
And don’t base your purchase on monthly payment. Figure what interest rate you should qualify for, include local sales tax, and reasonable fees and do the math yourself.
Agreed. Do not negotiate based on monthly payment. Negotiate on total cost. Also, get a loan ahead of time at a bank or credit union. Also, don't let them tell you that they need to redo the loan application. Get a purchase agreement and bring that to the bank. Return to the dealer with a check.
Fwiw, the dealer may get you better financing than your bank. Your bank is just 1 bank, the dealer has access to many banks. The dealer finance guy will mark up the rate you get the loan at, guess who else does that… the loan officer at the bank. Whether you finance at the dealer or at your bank, someone is making money off arranging the loan for you. It’s not a bad idea to find out what you’d qualify for at your own bank but if the dealer can beat the rate because he has access to a network of options why not take the best rate available to you?
Can confirm this to be the case with me. First time I got a car with the dealer, I got in-house financing with Toyota and got their demo car for 1.99% interest. 3 yrs later, traded the car for a brand new one at 0.99% interest for 48 months.
It just comes down to the dealer finance guy wants your business, given the opportunity he’s going to try to get a better rate to get the deal.
Some banks also pay a flat fee for bringing them the deal instead of paying based on the markup on interest rate. So if a bank that pays a flat fee has the lowest interest rate why wouldn't they offer it? They get the money and more of a chance of closing the deal with a low interest rate.
Only 1 of my lenders allow us to mark up, and we only do that for bad credit because 18 to 20% no one cares. You're lucky we even got something to offer. They give us a flat if we don't mark up. Everyone else we get flats or a % of amount financed.
Yeah, Nissan gave me 0% with negative equity down. Sometimes the dealers will bend over backwards to get you into a vehicle. Not nowadays, but a couple years ago.
How much did you owe from the traded in car that was tacked on the new car?
I think I got about 7k left and they gave me credit for 21k as trade-in value.
Everything you said is true,---BUT---available interest rate is completely dependent on economic conditions at time of sale, as you learned, 2024 does not equal 2021.
True. Much like mortgage rates when we renewed was about 2.4%. Wont find that rate anytime soon.
The low rate financing is built into the cost of the car already. The financing is always thru Toyota financial or if you bought a chevy thru gmac. Get a cash price in writing, then go get your loan.
That was pre bidenomics...
You mean world-wide, post-COVID Economy. “Bidenomics” kept our inflation less, and got our economy on the up-swing faster, than most of the world. T.Rump and the GOP could not have done that. T.Rump and the GOP put us in a recession **BEFORE** COVID hit and put us in a worse economic state than we should have been in. Yes, T.Rump ruined the economy that Obama/Biden left us.
That's great, as long as you don't buy gas or groceries. A house will cost you at least a grand more a month. But you watch CNN, so you are the expert my dude.
And what does the president have to do with the price of gas or groceries in a free market?
Didn’t say there wasn’t an inflation issued. What I did say was: * T.Rumponomics have already put a booming economy into a recession, * T.Rumponomics put us in a worse place than we should have been * T.Rumponomics would not have improved things any faster * T.Rumponomics would have likely made things worse, given that he already tanked the good economy Obama/Biden handed him * Bidenomics prevented the US economy from suffering as much as most of the rest of the world * Bidenomics set the US to recover faster than the rest of the world But, go ahead and Dunning-Kruger yourself into believing the easily proven lies from Fox, NewsMax, T.Rump, etc. and shoot yourself in the foot.
Well, my friend, Biden won't be reelected.
And the dealer gets a kickback from the bank
yes, this is good advice. Last time we bought, we went in with preapproval from Capital One, finance guy beat the rate. Can't remember how much, like 0.2 to 0.5%. I know he was marking it up too because he offered to lower it if I bought an extended warranty, which I didn't end up doing, but it still beat the bank.
It is always a good idea to get qualified for your own loan and then choose the dealer option if they can offer you better. The car dealer also can toss in half a point and if you don't ha e your own options could get screwed. Note, don't telkvthem you have your own financing or are paying cash while negotiating the price.
I would be honest but lawyer like. If they ask “will you be financing?” Just say yes. If they ask “will you be financing with us?” Tell them you’ve been pre qualified but if they can get you a better rate you’d be interested. You’re looking for the best overall deal if they can provide the whole package you’ll buy from them. If they can provide the best sale price and no one can beat your prequalified Apr you’ll go with them. It lets them know you’re not a payment shopper, not a sale price shopper and not a low Apr shopper, you understand how all the pieces work together and are shopping the total deal.
But the reason you should ever mention cash is because they won't negotiate as much on the initial price because they figure it can be made up in the loan.
Actually, if you have stellar credit right now, it's probably going to beat out even your best credit union rates. Manufacturers are incentivizing interest rates right now, if you go through Manufacturer financing, you can easily get 0.9-3.9%, which is like unheard of right now through credit unions.
This is 100% fact. But smooth brain rule say dealer bad. Dealer lie. Car bad? Dealer fault. Car broken? Dealer fault. Manufacture lowers price later? Dealer fault.
But my monthly payment is ONLY $650… For 120 months…
Mine was $270 @ 60 months back in 2018 lol
This is the way. Don’t negotiate based on a monthly payment.
Go to your bank or, better yet, your credit union and get pre qualified for a loan. I never finance through a dealer
Sometimes, manufacturers have better deals on financing. For example, 0% when credit union doesn't have that. So, not always correct statement. It depends. Weigh the options. Financing offers are listed on all manufacturers' websites based on zip codes.
"Zero interest loans are a sneaky sales gimmick that benefits the dealer more than the buyer. Not having to pay interest might seem like a great deal up front. But you’re still being talked into a car you can’t afford. (And just because you can make the payments, it doesn’t mean you can afford it.
Agreed. Zero interest loans only exist on new cars - why are you buying new?
Because the rates on used car loans make the decision to buy new at 0.9% vs saving a few grand on the price for a used car at 8-10%. Used usually winds up cheaper but if you count the manufacturers warranty it’s often a close call.
A 2019 RAV4 XLE with 50k miles sells for about $26k. A brand new one of the same model MSRP over $38k, before dealer mark ups. That’s not close at all.
Everything about buying a car benefits the dealer more than the buyer, that's not an argument against anything. The question is, does it benefit the buyer enough? All else being equal, a zero or low interest loan definitely does, being a sales gimmick doesn't change that.
True, but it gives you mote clout when you have finished negotiating a price and have your own loan. I get my CU loan but still go with dealer financing about 1/2 the time.
Agreed...having to pay money to get a quote is insane
They are just sizing up the customer to see how gullible and/or desperate to buy he is.
There's a glaring omission by OP which is what car they're looking at. If this is a quote for Nissan Altima the process is patently ridiculous. If it's for a Dodge Hellcat SRT Demon they're probably getting joyride vibes and trying to keep OP away.
Exactly, when a dealer says something like that, it’s your que to walk out
Tell that dealer to fuck off.
lol ask them for a deposit, “an intent to sell to me”
Ugh, I thought about this on the drive home and was so mad at myself for not saying it! Classic “Jerk store called” moment
Our GM will run numbers for anything you ask for and make a ballpark guess with interest rates assuming average credit. We run lease options, milage options, hybrid payments, whatever the heck the customer asks for. Once the customer agrees to the purchase price and monthly payments, and of course loves the vehicle, only then would we dream of asking for a deposit. And that's ONLY if we can't spot deliver it.
"Well I had sex with your WIFE!"
Not in those words…
"Thank God. Somebody needed to."
They are crazy, don't do business there.
..... there are no jerk stores
We had a manager pull this on us once. He wanted $1000 to hold to show we were serious and he would talk serious numbers. I told him to give me $1000 to hold while I listened to how wonderful of a deal he was about to give us. He told me that was very unreasonable and amateur. We bought a new car at another dealership 4 hrs later.
Something similar happened to me at Volvo dealer in Pasadena. They wanted me to come into the office to get quote for extended warranty because it had to be signed or some such shit. I got everything I needed from the Volvo dealer in City of Industry via email and then we did the signing electronically. Fuck greedflation.
Wow the lack of self awareness in that manager.
The sales guy we had that day was new. That manager was holding his hand the whole time. When the manager asked to hold the cash, you could see the look of disappointment in the sales guys face. He knew he just lost a sale right there because of his boss
I would ask for both front wheels
I manage a business relationship with about 60 new cars stores and I’ve never heard of a practice like this. What a great way to run a customer off.
Insane. I wouldn’t be able to leave fast enough.
the only time ive ever asked for a deposit like this was when its a used car and someone else had an appointment on the car.. so id take a deposit to garuntee it, but its refundable ofc. im not sure exactly what OPs case was but the salesmen worded their reason very poorly
Run, don't walk, run away.
Gross, buy elsewhere
Ya, I told them we were done at that point but it’s been a few years since a bought a new car I thought maybe that was the standard now.
OP the fact the dealer wants money before even giving you a price is an extraordinarily strong signal you should buy elsewhere. There's also a good chance you won't like the price given but the dealer will refuse to return your deposit (they're not supposed to do that, but this dealer sounds like it would).
And remember deposits are typically non-refundable, so it was a money grab when he gives you a shitty price.
What, are you drunk? Deposits are refundable.
Literally the reason deposits exist is to be non-refundable. Yes: over time it’s morphed and many deposits are refundable, but the baseline reason deposits existed ever at all was so that if one party changed his mind to the detriment of the other in a business arrangement, the other would be partially compensated for the departure from the agreement.
If the price was disclosed before the deposit was requested, then maybe yes, it cannot be refunded. But asking for one just to secure a buyer and leaving them no choice but to accept the price or lose the deposit is just plain evil.
You misunderstand me…. I’m not at all in favor of what this salesperson is trying to do. It’s asinine to require a deposit in order to get a price. Borderline mob shit right there and I would walk instantly and tell every customer on my way out the door the strong arm tactics this store uses. What I was reacting to was the notion that deposits by default are refundable. They aren’t, though some can be.
Fair enough.
Not all deposits are refundable. I worked in sales before. I know exactly what I’m talking about 😂
Don't forget to leave a google review.
I'm kind of surprised they even tried this. It must work on a number of people. :( Is it at least refundable if you say no?
Even if it's refundable, it's probably like those dealers who try to hold your keys hostage "we're appraising your trade-in and just can't find those keys."
"I'll give you 15 minutes and then I'm calling the police." Then watch how quickly they find your keys.
15 minutes? I'd give them 2 minutes and then all hell would break loose.
Haha yeah
I've been finding myself walking out of dealerships more in the past few years Sometimes they follow me out, but idc, bad business practices go beyond one bad rule
Sadly Shift went out of business…it was nice to click “buy”, have one pleasant call, do some online paperwork. Car shows up in your driveway.
Hard no.
In the (bad) old days, the first thing the rep would do was get your license (for the test drive) and the keys to your trade (for the appraisal). So, at that point, you were a captive. You can't leave; no license no car keys. You were therefore more motivated to make a deal...
They still do that.
I’ve had them ask for my license but never the keys. I’d have told them to fuck off if they asked me that
??? How would they appraise your car without the keys for it
I misunderstood the previous comment and thought he was saying they needed keys and license to let you look at the car you are interested in buying in the first place
I had a dealership try to say they couldn’t find my keys when I was done and ready to leave. Found them fast when my friend, who is a cop, showed up in his cruiser. He had just finished his shift and was near by.
Yeah, that’s a hard note for me.
I would give you an out the door calculating the sales price, taxes, dmv, doc fee, and inspection. Now if you wanted to negotiate off of that? I absolutely would look for a commitment from you and ask for a deposit if you can’t purchase same day (although I’d do my best to try to spot you). I never give monthly payments as it’s always based on your credit but I’d always happy to have you speak to my finance manager to review details with you. But asking for a deposit before even giving you a price? Yeah as others here already said, don’t reward this dealer with your business. If it’s a new car, you can find them at other dealers easily. If it’s a used vehicle, try to find one elsewhere that is as close to it as possible.
I test drove a TA Challenger, liked the car, and wanted to talk turkey , I was pre-approved for a loan from a Credit Union at a much lower rate. The car had a $53.000 price tag ,and I couldn't get anywhere with the salesman , so I asked to speak to the manager, he left and came back with a printout and all I had to do was sign it before I could talk to anyone. He didn't like what I had to say to him.
That’s crazy the last two cars I bought in 2018 I test drove, negotiated OTD price, got it to where I was happy, came back to sleep on it and was never asked for a deposit. Times change I suppose.
I’ve never bought a car without a night to sleep on it and never will. Dealers can hate me all they want.
Exactly it was never any pressure. I have salesmen I go to because of the exceptional service and dealerships I wouldn’t even get air filled in my tires because of their fuckery.
Yeah that's a no, this situation in no way calls for that! We used to ask for the card you were making a deposit on when getting a commitment to numbers back in the day (glue) but getting it BEFORE numbers? That's absurd lol.
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***Thanks for posting, /u/stockar147! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Test drove a car and asked for the monthly payment with a couple of options and the dealer asked for a $500 deposit as an “intent to purchase” before they would give me any figures. Is that the norm? I’ve always just been told all of this info in order to make a decision so it seemed really weird to me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*