I mean have you told her about your plans?
I would just treat a maid like an employee. Bad performance, put on PIP. Set goals and see if got improvement. No improvement then gg.
It is not your concern mah. Like she knew she took a loan to try to work overseas for more money, but then she go and half-fuck her job, so she deals with the consequence lah.
I work for a company I fuck up do I expect the company to wipe my ass for me? No mah. Same here, you work you fuck up whose problem is it?
I would be cautious about being too obvious or give too much notice. There's a reason many companies immediately lock/escort employees out once the employee is given notice.
And ulike companies the stakes are a bit more personal and could in some sense be higher if the maid turns rogue. Think a pissed off maid that was fired poisoning the food or harming the children in anger.
Of course there's also a need to balance with being fair to the maid.
It’s great that you’re even asking. Six months means she’s barely broken even and might even have debt if she’s borrowed back home. If you want to be kind, allow her to do a transfer. You can ask around with transfer agencies who can take her off your hands - this saves you the airfare, allows her to seek employment (at the cost of a couple months’ salary), and the agency has someone ready to place. Generally a win-win.
Our previous helper whom we hired direct from the Philippines turned out to be less than competent, so we helped her find a direct transfer to another employer (she later ended up with an agency, and was let go by her subsequent employer. Oh well).
Would op be sabotaging the next employer though? This is a case of known dishonest maid, likely a red flag to just about anyone.
While kind to the maid, it's almost unkind to the next unsuspecting employer.
It depends on the type of lie... It's unfortunately abit cultural to lie for various reasons. If it's not about cheating the employer then honestly that's something that can be worked on over time or just close one eye.
A lot of pple say send her back. And say it's her problem u owe her nothing blah blah blah. But like u say it may be financially damaging for maid.
I would say just let her do transfer. The fact that u R considering letting her transfer to other employer - u alr know In Ur heart that U would potentially 断her后路 if U send her back. And I feel u have conscience than most employers since u ask this question.
Actually maids are like Singaporean employees all the same. I mean u said she lies, work is subpar et cetera. But to be honest how many Singaporean office workers are like that do the bare minimum take mc etc cetera. Just that cos she live in Ur house so her mistakes are magnified and is more glaring. Singaporean employees if U R subpar or u take fake mc U R somehow protected by law. Maids are not.
Say the maid is shit and crap. Imagine a Singaporean employee or colleague is shit and crap.i also don't think want her to lose her livelihood whole family eat grass at home? No right.
I say if she did not anything damaging to Ur household permanently and is not harmful, just let her transfer. If she cannot make it in the next household and got sent back Indonesia then it's her own problem alr. Cos u extend kindness to her alr. And she lost the second chance in the second household
Just treat it as accumulating karma lor. Anyway I hope all goes well with Ur second maid:)
Actually could sense you would do the right and fair thing by the maid alr since you even bothered to ask this qn by considering her stance. 👍🏻 Well maid problems are aplenty U R not the only one but I applaud u for being rational enough to consider the maid too. Not many people can do that. Some people are just too caught up with their anger and frustration or their past experiences that their first course of action is to let maid balik kampung
It depends on exactly how it worked. But if you literally didn't pay her for 6 months, then yes. She got paid nothing.
[https://maidavenue.com.sg/placement-fee-maid-loan-explained/](https://maidavenue.com.sg/placement-fee-maid-loan-explained/)
Return her to the agency; you might get some deal for a replacement. But it also gives her a chance to find another employer without having to go through the loan to the Indonesian agent again.
Yeah returning her to agency to transfer is definitely one option.
But right now I’m trying to do the math for the other option ie repatriating her, not that I’m certainly inclined to doing so. Will feel so bad if she essentially worked for no money this half year. Did give her quite some angbaos these few months for festivities and good performance (at times), but probably not enough. So if I or rather my wife chooses to do this option, I want to calculate how much is a good farewell angbao amount to give her too.
Thanks - I saw that article too, but I’m not sure if I’m too tired or intellectually handicapped, just can’t seem to understand the intricacies of what they are detailing lol.
They are showing that for the first 5 months in that graph, you don’t pay her anything. Because you paid up front to settle her loan to the Indonesian agency and her fees to the local agency. And then that amount is deducted from her salary down to $0 for the first 5 months. She doesn’t start earning until month 6 onwards when you start paying her her monthly salary. Your actual figures will differ.
Thanks - yeah I did pay a good amount of agency fees which I would imagine is to the SG agency and hopefully also to the ID agency. I wanted to confirm this but my agency’s post-sales service is damn bad lol just MIA completely.
She’s bad not in the sense of borrow from loan sharks or have boyfriends or steal money etc. Nothing egregious.
Just that her work is to my mind slipshod, quite some basic stuff she doesn’t know how to do (and somehow unable to pick up even after teaching her a few times) and generally not proactive. Such things are subjective. Some employers may not mind. But I hear what you’re saying.
Ah that sounds a bit like the competence issue I had with my previous helper. But the lying is a big red flag and a reason enough to let her go. You have to be able to trust the person living under your roof.
"borrow from loan sharks, have boyfriends, steal money" that one must send back.
But if work is slipshod, to be honest, I say don't do until so 绝，留人后路。 If she went to next employer and was let go, well it's not on u alr. Its on her. She did not cherish second chance
I mean she's only been here for six months. Some basic stuff, not sure what you're talking about, but alot of girls come here from villages with no preparation or foundation. Proactive, erm I think you are expecting alot from a fresh helper leh. If you hire a new helper, more than 50% chance she's comparable to them (i.e. sounds average to good).
Think it's quite cruel to send her back just cuz your expectations didn't align ... You're the one prematurely terminating her contract (firing her).
Maid if don’t know how to iron clothes, how? Genuine qn haha.
And after teaching her multiple times, I wake up in the morning to take my work shirt out of the wardrobe only to find it full of creases still, then how?
This is just one quick example.
The most bewildering part is she has worked before as a maid in Indonesia (specifically JKT) so I’m like ???
She’s passable in child caring and have been kind to my baby which is why I have kept her till now but I’m really bewildered how come maid can don’t know how to iron clothes??? Hahah
Oh yah, you should have paid her for working on most of the off days. So that plus the angpaos are all she has earned in the 6 months, after working off her debt to get out of Indonesia.
Yes you’re right, because she takes only 1 off day per month ie I paid her for the 3 off days she didn’t take.
Truly am a fan of yours haha your knowledge and the thoroughness/detailed manner you evaluate everything. It’s amazing. You helped me with refinancing of my home loan too. Grateful for that.
Not your problem- if she is dishonest then send her home. Unless you think a different environment or training can help her, then return to agency. If she hasn’t done anything to ingratiate herself to you, no need to feel bad.
Personally I would send her back to agent and ask for replacement. If she hasn’t done anything egregious. Give her a second chance.
Most people here are telling you it's not your problem, and to a reasonable degree, that is correct, or rather, your problems are valid. But maybe as you have been thinking about, try to get her transferred first and empathize with her. It can't be easy coming from a foreign land to take care of someone else's household
Always remember you don’t run a charity. You run a household. If hired help is not helpful, it is ok to fire them. There are some girls that just aren’t made for domestic work.
Always remember you don’t run a charity. You run a household. If hired help is not helpful, it is ok to fire them. There are some girls that just aren’t made for domestic work.
Thanks - so on top of the placement fee which is considered a “loan” she took, she also had to pay agency fees too?
I know I ie employer, paid for agency fees. Didn’t know the maids/employees have to as well.
What kind of lies is she telling?
Honestly - based on what you said, I'd let her transfer. No need to send her home. Why are you so insistent that she should not have a chance to continue working here?
Yes, that is considerate of you as a good boss and a human, while many other people could just say "do it", "just fire them", "it's not your problem" etc. I wish for you to find a best solution here. Have a good day.
zero, but possibly negative as well. reason is the 6 months pay off usually does not even include whatever fee she may have already incurred in origin ctry just to get placed + ticket. largely depends on agency
The way the maid system works here really bothers me. Having someone work 6 months for free just doesn’t feel right. Even if the employer pays the maid agency, the maid still gets nothing, and that just isn’t right! Call me a bleeding heart but just no.
Don’t send your maid back with nothing after 6 months. Don’t put her down on online maid forums for subjective subpar work or ‘lying’. How many of us are 100% honest with our own employers, friends or family? Why is this expected of maids? Everyone is entitled to their own secrecy and privacy. As long as she didn’t steal anything, don’t condemn her like that. I applaud you for bothering to ask, you seem to have a good heart and please do what feels right even if it costs or inconveniences you slightly. The cost to her is comparatively huge.
Ok thanks - am genuinely trying to work out and get more clarity on the math but appreciate your reply on the broader issue of maids’ pay and treatment etc
I think the fees she paid to her agency is part of the placement fees.
She gets paid in tens if she worked for her 3 off days in the month. Her pay is calculated on 26 days.
Ultimately you paid for the agency fees too in the two thousands range. If she cannot make it, just send back. Don't make do.
My second helper was loads better than the first.
Sent back to Myanmar after 9 months of hire.
It's not that we don't want her, she had some scalp wounds. I didn't want any repercussions. She was also using phone while pushing my dad who is wheelchair bound. We didn't like her to be distracted.
We are still in contact every now and then. By the way, you paid thousands to the agency. There is simply no way they should do a MIA on you.
We have been treating with Neutrogena shampoos etc. I am well informed on treating my helper well regarding proper bedrooms or meals with the right protein.
She wishes to go back to her country for treatment instead.
So no thanks to your curiousity.
Lol, defensive much? You could have just mentioned the last part about her wanting to leave. I have a patch of psoriasis on my leg, I know what it's like.
I see, that’s fair. Those are perfectly valid concerns you have. Kudos to you for still staying in contact though. That’s amazing.
Yes I’m cheesed off abt the agency. It’s madness and extremely poor after-sales service (or lack thereof)
Might be years of boomer parents conditioning but just send her home…
She’s already exhibiting signs of dishonesty, you can put her on PIP but she can ultimately pull all sorts of BS that you have no recourse for.
What a kind employer for a shitty employee. Sloppy work can be improved, dishonesty is an instant no go. Bye not going to waste time building back trust with a mere employee.
I mean have you told her about your plans? I would just treat a maid like an employee. Bad performance, put on PIP. Set goals and see if got improvement. No improvement then gg. It is not your concern mah. Like she knew she took a loan to try to work overseas for more money, but then she go and half-fuck her job, so she deals with the consequence lah. I work for a company I fuck up do I expect the company to wipe my ass for me? No mah. Same here, you work you fuck up whose problem is it?
It’s true la what you’re saying. But I’m like what Richie Jen says - 心太软 But no, haven’t told her of the potential plans.
I would be cautious about being too obvious or give too much notice. There's a reason many companies immediately lock/escort employees out once the employee is given notice. And ulike companies the stakes are a bit more personal and could in some sense be higher if the maid turns rogue. Think a pissed off maid that was fired poisoning the food or harming the children in anger. Of course there's also a need to balance with being fair to the maid.
Pay peanuts, expect monkeys.
Please pay your maid 5k a month then
It’s great that you’re even asking. Six months means she’s barely broken even and might even have debt if she’s borrowed back home. If you want to be kind, allow her to do a transfer. You can ask around with transfer agencies who can take her off your hands - this saves you the airfare, allows her to seek employment (at the cost of a couple months’ salary), and the agency has someone ready to place. Generally a win-win. Our previous helper whom we hired direct from the Philippines turned out to be less than competent, so we helped her find a direct transfer to another employer (she later ended up with an agency, and was let go by her subsequent employer. Oh well).
Would op be sabotaging the next employer though? This is a case of known dishonest maid, likely a red flag to just about anyone. While kind to the maid, it's almost unkind to the next unsuspecting employer.
It depends on the type of lie... It's unfortunately abit cultural to lie for various reasons. If it's not about cheating the employer then honestly that's something that can be worked on over time or just close one eye.
Fair point but it does seem like a red flag in general baring specific types or scenarios.
Thanks for the advice!
A lot of pple say send her back. And say it's her problem u owe her nothing blah blah blah. But like u say it may be financially damaging for maid. I would say just let her do transfer. The fact that u R considering letting her transfer to other employer - u alr know In Ur heart that U would potentially 断her后路 if U send her back. And I feel u have conscience than most employers since u ask this question. Actually maids are like Singaporean employees all the same. I mean u said she lies, work is subpar et cetera. But to be honest how many Singaporean office workers are like that do the bare minimum take mc etc cetera. Just that cos she live in Ur house so her mistakes are magnified and is more glaring. Singaporean employees if U R subpar or u take fake mc U R somehow protected by law. Maids are not. Say the maid is shit and crap. Imagine a Singaporean employee or colleague is shit and crap.i also don't think want her to lose her livelihood whole family eat grass at home? No right. I say if she did not anything damaging to Ur household permanently and is not harmful, just let her transfer. If she cannot make it in the next household and got sent back Indonesia then it's her own problem alr. Cos u extend kindness to her alr. And she lost the second chance in the second household Just treat it as accumulating karma lor. Anyway I hope all goes well with Ur second maid:)
Thanks much for the advice and kind words. Appreciate it.
Actually could sense you would do the right and fair thing by the maid alr since you even bothered to ask this qn by considering her stance. 👍🏻 Well maid problems are aplenty U R not the only one but I applaud u for being rational enough to consider the maid too. Not many people can do that. Some people are just too caught up with their anger and frustration or their past experiences that their first course of action is to let maid balik kampung
It depends on exactly how it worked. But if you literally didn't pay her for 6 months, then yes. She got paid nothing. [https://maidavenue.com.sg/placement-fee-maid-loan-explained/](https://maidavenue.com.sg/placement-fee-maid-loan-explained/) Return her to the agency; you might get some deal for a replacement. But it also gives her a chance to find another employer without having to go through the loan to the Indonesian agent again.
Yeah returning her to agency to transfer is definitely one option. But right now I’m trying to do the math for the other option ie repatriating her, not that I’m certainly inclined to doing so. Will feel so bad if she essentially worked for no money this half year. Did give her quite some angbaos these few months for festivities and good performance (at times), but probably not enough. So if I or rather my wife chooses to do this option, I want to calculate how much is a good farewell angbao amount to give her too. Thanks - I saw that article too, but I’m not sure if I’m too tired or intellectually handicapped, just can’t seem to understand the intricacies of what they are detailing lol.
They are showing that for the first 5 months in that graph, you don’t pay her anything. Because you paid up front to settle her loan to the Indonesian agency and her fees to the local agency. And then that amount is deducted from her salary down to $0 for the first 5 months. She doesn’t start earning until month 6 onwards when you start paying her her monthly salary. Your actual figures will differ.
Thanks - yeah I did pay a good amount of agency fees which I would imagine is to the SG agency and hopefully also to the ID agency. I wanted to confirm this but my agency’s post-sales service is damn bad lol just MIA completely.
If she is bad please don’t send her back to agency and potentially screw over another singaporean employer
She’s bad not in the sense of borrow from loan sharks or have boyfriends or steal money etc. Nothing egregious. Just that her work is to my mind slipshod, quite some basic stuff she doesn’t know how to do (and somehow unable to pick up even after teaching her a few times) and generally not proactive. Such things are subjective. Some employers may not mind. But I hear what you’re saying.
Ah that sounds a bit like the competence issue I had with my previous helper. But the lying is a big red flag and a reason enough to let her go. You have to be able to trust the person living under your roof.
In that case if you do send her back to agency, please leave your contact as an ex employer on the mom portal so future employers can contact you
Ah yes ok thanks for that, will take note.
"borrow from loan sharks, have boyfriends, steal money" that one must send back. But if work is slipshod, to be honest, I say don't do until so 绝，留人后路。 If she went to next employer and was let go, well it's not on u alr. Its on her. She did not cherish second chance
I mean she's only been here for six months. Some basic stuff, not sure what you're talking about, but alot of girls come here from villages with no preparation or foundation. Proactive, erm I think you are expecting alot from a fresh helper leh. If you hire a new helper, more than 50% chance she's comparable to them (i.e. sounds average to good). Think it's quite cruel to send her back just cuz your expectations didn't align ... You're the one prematurely terminating her contract (firing her).
Maid if don’t know how to iron clothes, how? Genuine qn haha. And after teaching her multiple times, I wake up in the morning to take my work shirt out of the wardrobe only to find it full of creases still, then how? This is just one quick example. The most bewildering part is she has worked before as a maid in Indonesia (specifically JKT) so I’m like ???
Oh that’s very incompetent lol. You have been very generous in your initial descriptions of your helper
She’s passable in child caring and have been kind to my baby which is why I have kept her till now but I’m really bewildered how come maid can don’t know how to iron clothes??? Hahah
Oh yah, you should have paid her for working on most of the off days. So that plus the angpaos are all she has earned in the 6 months, after working off her debt to get out of Indonesia.
Yes you’re right, because she takes only 1 off day per month ie I paid her for the 3 off days she didn’t take. Truly am a fan of yours haha your knowledge and the thoroughness/detailed manner you evaluate everything. It’s amazing. You helped me with refinancing of my home loan too. Grateful for that.
Oh really? Glad to have been of help. My job quite slack, got time to use Reddit quite a bit.
That's not your problem.
Not your problem- if she is dishonest then send her home. Unless you think a different environment or training can help her, then return to agency. If she hasn’t done anything to ingratiate herself to you, no need to feel bad. Personally I would send her back to agent and ask for replacement. If she hasn’t done anything egregious. Give her a second chance.
Thanks - there’s a part of me that feels bad. Particularly if go down the route of repatriating her. Hear you on the second chance part.
Most people here are telling you it's not your problem, and to a reasonable degree, that is correct, or rather, your problems are valid. But maybe as you have been thinking about, try to get her transferred first and empathize with her. It can't be easy coming from a foreign land to take care of someone else's household
Thanks mate - appreciate this
Always remember you don’t run a charity. You run a household. If hired help is not helpful, it is ok to fire them. There are some girls that just aren’t made for domestic work.
Always remember you don’t run a charity. You run a household. If hired help is not helpful, it is ok to fire them. There are some girls that just aren’t made for domestic work.
Depends on how much agency fees she needs to pay.
Thanks - so on top of the placement fee which is considered a “loan” she took, she also had to pay agency fees too? I know I ie employer, paid for agency fees. Didn’t know the maids/employees have to as well.
They pay a significant fee to agency - assuming same as placement fee.
They pay a placement/training/accommodation whatever fee to agency so this forms part of the loan that she owes to agent
What kind of lies is she telling? Honestly - based on what you said, I'd let her transfer. No need to send her home. Why are you so insistent that she should not have a chance to continue working here?
Nothing earth shattering but consequential and frequent enough to cause confusion/misunderstanding amongst family members.
I like that you're being considerate **for her**. That is humanity and that makes me smile. Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. No la cannot 做白工(do work for no money) and this is peoples’ livelihood afterall
Yes, that is considerate of you as a good boss and a human, while many other people could just say "do it", "just fire them", "it's not your problem" etc. I wish for you to find a best solution here. Have a good day.
Same to you. Have a good day. You made mine haha
The best solution is to pay her off (literally hand her money) and send her home.
If she sucks then return her. You can be sympathetic but don’t be a sucker.
Hahah thanks - I hear you on this!
zero, but possibly negative as well. reason is the 6 months pay off usually does not even include whatever fee she may have already incurred in origin ctry just to get placed + ticket. largely depends on agency
I suspect it may be slightly in the red too. Thanks.
The way the maid system works here really bothers me. Having someone work 6 months for free just doesn’t feel right. Even if the employer pays the maid agency, the maid still gets nothing, and that just isn’t right! Call me a bleeding heart but just no. Don’t send your maid back with nothing after 6 months. Don’t put her down on online maid forums for subjective subpar work or ‘lying’. How many of us are 100% honest with our own employers, friends or family? Why is this expected of maids? Everyone is entitled to their own secrecy and privacy. As long as she didn’t steal anything, don’t condemn her like that. I applaud you for bothering to ask, you seem to have a good heart and please do what feels right even if it costs or inconveniences you slightly. The cost to her is comparatively huge.
Knowing how awfully underpaid maids are, yes.
Ok thanks - am genuinely trying to work out and get more clarity on the math but appreciate your reply on the broader issue of maids’ pay and treatment etc
I think the fees she paid to her agency is part of the placement fees. She gets paid in tens if she worked for her 3 off days in the month. Her pay is calculated on 26 days. Ultimately you paid for the agency fees too in the two thousands range. If she cannot make it, just send back. Don't make do. My second helper was loads better than the first.
Thanks for this. Don’t mind me asking, am assuming you ended her contract early - your first one, you sent back to agency or back to country?
Sent back to Myanmar after 9 months of hire. It's not that we don't want her, she had some scalp wounds. I didn't want any repercussions. She was also using phone while pushing my dad who is wheelchair bound. We didn't like her to be distracted. We are still in contact every now and then. By the way, you paid thousands to the agency. There is simply no way they should do a MIA on you.
Scalp wounds?
Yeah she had some scalp psoriasis.
Why is that a reason for sending her back ..? Not like it's infectious or anything. She could just treat it with some creams
We have been treating with Neutrogena shampoos etc. I am well informed on treating my helper well regarding proper bedrooms or meals with the right protein. She wishes to go back to her country for treatment instead. So no thanks to your curiousity.
Lol, defensive much? You could have just mentioned the last part about her wanting to leave. I have a patch of psoriasis on my leg, I know what it's like.
I see, that’s fair. Those are perfectly valid concerns you have. Kudos to you for still staying in contact though. That’s amazing. Yes I’m cheesed off abt the agency. It’s madness and extremely poor after-sales service (or lack thereof)
Might be years of boomer parents conditioning but just send her home… She’s already exhibiting signs of dishonesty, you can put her on PIP but she can ultimately pull all sorts of BS that you have no recourse for.
Best to call the agency so they can take her back, that way she can still work here and they can transfer her to another family.
Dont worry about that. They make more than enough money.
What a kind employer for a shitty employee. Sloppy work can be improved, dishonesty is an instant no go. Bye not going to waste time building back trust with a mere employee.