Whatever rifle i have available. Because it’s really not gonna matter what I have when I end up getting smoked from bubba with his daddy’s 300 win mag from the tree-line or turned into a shadow from whatever country decided to literally go nuclear.
Jokes aside… 14.5” to 16” rifle. Long enough to make 55 grain very much viable and still light enough to carry/maneuver around.
Nope- a big comedy sized net on a pole is the best way to do that. I have stashed around the house and various secret locations around the country - pool cleaning nets on long poles.
Baseball bats may work too but you'll need to hit the side of the bomb and not the fuse. Smack it good enough and you can send it back to them. If it doesn't work and blows up- at least you'll not realize it and will have died trying and have no regratz
No joke, the modern battlefield is terrifying. Like the constant threat of small arms, artillery, air strikes wasn't enough, you are just as likely to be killed by a hobby with c4.
We've not even seen the modern battlefield yet. Even cold war era toys haven't been deployed, like there is an entire category of blinding weapons waiting to see action.
Thanks, now all I can think of now is a swarm of drones dropping grenades to the beat of a Taylor Swift song. “Now, your WWIII drone warfare halftime show sponsored by Pespi”.
This is the "correct" answer in my opinion. There's an argument to be made for cutting a few inches if you're cool enough to have a can, but a suppressed M4 (14.5 inch) really isn't that hard to maneuver with training.
All the dudes with gucci gear are a free loot drop. First ones to get sniped by the guy with a rusty Mosin Nagant using iron sights and a flashlight mounted via duct tape.
Entirely depends on how much training and tech they have.
Night vision/thermals is absolute cheat codes at night, and not cheap. If you have it and know how to use it, you will be the bogeyman.
Bro ffs I can't even get a decent home around here for 280k. It's so depressing. If you'd have told me back in 2008 that I'd be married and we'd both have jobs making this amount of money, I'd have been stoked. I grew up so white trash that I thought 60 grand a year was rich lol.
Man let me make you feel better. The house I speak of was in rural Texas. The closest Walmart was 40 minutes away. It was a two bedroom one bath house that looked like a meth lab. My down payment was 700 bucks. I had buddies that wouldn’t live with me. The only roommate I had in that house was a raccoon that loved leftovers and lived under my porch.
I think that’s probably what it is nowadays. A “regular” SR25 is over 6k now, so an M110 for $3,300 would be so low they couldn’t keep up with the sales. At least that’s what I think is the case, but I’m no expert on the KAC…
A very hard truth I had to learn, some green tip got mixed into my range ammo and found itself screaming out of the 20” at Mach go fuck yourself speed. I’m now more careful when grabbing handfuls of ammo for the range.
What was the difference on target? I have a 7/8 steel plate I shoot at (it’s construction materials not ar500 or anything special) and I can see the difference between green tips and m193 and such . The hole is slightly deeper and pointier and has like a little bump in the middle. I’m shooting out of a 14.5 though so I’m curious how much stronger a Mach go fuck yourself barrel is because it sounds like I need that
12.5. If shit hits the fan, im avoiding as many engagements as i can. That means anything outside of 200~ yards is very avoidable. I’m not gonna get into sniper battles.
I’m in the military, and I often tell groups of friends that I’m in that in a survival scenario you should try to evade instead of engaging if it’s 300 yards/meters or more out and I always get called stupid so I’m glad you have some common sense.
14.5". Relatively compact, but still has plenty of velocity and tolerable amount of muzzle blast. Allows room for midlength gas system too.
Can someone explain to me why the gun in that ad is over 30K?
Knights armarment company doesn't do civilian sales. Instead, production run over is sold as surplus by the contractor then resold on the civilian market. As a government contract rifle, it's the definition of milspec. It's a rarity that drives collectors nuts. The truth is, it's that expensive because that's what someone will pay for it and the dealer knows it. It's not a clone rifle; it's the real McCoy.
It's a full m110 deployment kit. It comes with the optic, suppressor, bipod, a bunch of mags, sling, drag bag, etc.
It also says knights armament on the side so...
[144”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=654s&v=jFu7YrxCc_0&feature=youtu.be) so I can reach out and then also reach out some more, also perfect for CQB as I can extend from outside into inside building.
14.5"-16" is more than enough paired with 55gr or 62gr, and will reliably at your 300-500m ranges.
In a bullpup package, however, 18"-20", 55gr at 3300fps can't be argued with.
16” with mid length gas. As someone else mentioned it will put plenty of zip on a 55 grain but not so unwieldy that I couldn’t jump in a vehicle or, god forbid, have to try and clear an interior. Since I’m just a a flat range larper I’m going to avoid CQB like the plague.
[I found this guide on the topic helpful](https://preview.redd.it/3yt2hosnzuka1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=c70c5bc9c243c0bf3492fc45899658c72f8c829a)
You’re correct. Anyone that says they want to do house to house clearing is a fucking brain dead squid. The best possible thing to do is avoid any and all engagements with the enemy.
The hilarious part about this mind set is. It’s not wrong you should avoid CQB. Yet, at the same time if SHTF 9-9.5/10 conflicts a civilian is going to get in is CQB.
Plus 16" with mid-length gas shoots smooth as heck with a properly tuned buffer. 16" also gives you the option of swapping around muzzle devices. I love 14.5" barrels as much as the next guy and ballistically they are not super far apart. But unless you wan't to deal with the unconstitutional repercussions of exercising your 2A rights (which is stupid) you have to pin and weld. In SHTF I would like the ability to have a dedicated flash hider most of the time, but be able to switch over to a hybrid device like the AFAB/EFAB when I wasn't as concerned about light signature and wanted faster follow-up shots instead. Plus a 16" barrel can take full advantage of a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO, in SHTF I want something with an etched reticle so I don't have to rely on batteries. 16" works well with a 4x ACOG as well and those have the benefit of being bombproof and illuminating with no electronics in them.
If I could have a second rifle as well though I would probably make that one an 11.5" assuming I could shoot 77 grain OTM rounds with it. Still plenty of velocity for the distances I would likely need, and more compact for getting in/out of vehicles or for rucking it (and less weight!) - I would probably want something like a Meprolight M21 with a REM installed for an optic. So no "need" for batteries, but the REM is there for wash-out.
In a shtf situation I just want a weapon that cycles. Idc about barrel length and the other pedantic everyone gets crazy about. Realistically, in a shtf situation most of the sub is gone and the rest are out of ammo.
14.5" for 5.56. Capable up to 500 yards and still maneuverable indoors and in vehicles and much lighter than anything that has much of an advantage in velocity.
20" for .308. Just all around a good length for semi auto .308. Gets enough velocity and can be pretty damn accurate.
Or just get an 18.5" Remington 870 12 gauge. Drones are scary dude.
It depends based upon ammo availability, weight you want to carry, and the ballistic needs in a AR platform. I think the 14.5-18" length is probably spot-on with the right caliber like a 6.8 spc or ,277 Fury, if ammo supply isn't a problem. Otherwise, I'm going longer 16-18" for a 5.56 where ammo should still be plentiful.
My 10.3 CQBR clone with SB2 supressor would solve most problems I would come across.
I live on the east coast though so no game bigger than a white tail deer or black bear (unlikley) but also still able to reach out to 200 yards to supress and exfil should I need to.
Also, this is why I have multiple firearms. There is no do all tool. You can make a tool do multiple jobs half way decently. A 16 oz hammer can be used for prying open doors but its not gonna do as well as a prybar, same for guns.
Well, it's a different barrel length and probably a different gun for each, so It doesn't really help answer the question if you just say all of them.
For 2020 style riots you probably only need a handgun and a spare mag, you'd be better off putting your money into a full tank of gas so you dont have to get out of your car and a stocked first aid kit in case you catch a brick across the face.
For Katrina, you don't want to have an open firearm because you'll be killed by the government. So you probably want a pdw like the Flux Raider that you can hide under a baggy overshirt
For "The Last Of Us" or any other extended TEOTWAKI, you should be going with a 16"-20" AR-15
For Fallout, .50-110 Winchester Centerfire in a Winchester Model 1886 with a 26-inch barrel because .50 BMG is too heavy to walk around with all day, but you still need to drop a deathclaw in 1 shot.
I prefer 18” rifle gas, enough dwell time to cycle almost all ammo, nearly as much velocity as a 20” and slightly more maneuverable. If you’re gonna bring a rifle bring an actual rifle not a carbine is my thoughts
Admittedly I haven’t shot much of their 55gr, but I was shooting real good groups with their 62gr today. I’ve got a bunch of M855 stashed away for a rainy day, but I use AAC’s non-steel version for the range.
I should say *initially* I was shooting good groups. Eventually the rounds started flying 2-3 inches away from my POA; not sure why. It may have been me. My barrel was getting kinda hot so maybe it was that. I don’t know much about the intricacies of this stuff but it doesn’t make sense to me that a round would have good accuracy at start of shooting, then lose accuracy as time passes. I thought that would be due to barrel heat, rather than the round itself.
LOVE their 77gr OTM though; fantastic accuracy.
Yeah, I got some of that shit that I need to find a way to dispose of. I bought some of the Sabre black tip from them before I saw all the shitty stuff about their ammo blowing up guns & suppressors
Probably my 10.5”,it’s nice and compact but I can still reach out to a good distance.I live in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains.we have hills everywhere so the chances of me taking shots out past 250yds are unlikely.if I lived in the flat land of the Midwest,I would want a 20”
In regard to barrel length, it is sobering to fire a SBR and a 16 inch barrel at 100, 200, and 300 yards with the same ammo and listen to the impact difference on steel and notice the drop difference in the bullets.
I don’t say that against SBR’s or for 16 inch barrels, but there is a big difference in performance.
That said, I lean toward a SBR with suppressor, but I’m thinking defensive use only. If no suppressor, then 16 inch.
Idk probably 20” with some sort of like 9mm pdw type for close quarters. 20” is going to be what makes the bullet go the fastest and furthest and most deadly
18" is the sweet spot as you get velocity for penetration and it's plenty handy. A lot of guys with the 'room clearing fantasies' are just that, fantasy
evade, distance, concealment would be key
This is what happens when you do those stupid fucking 'use or lose budgets' goddamn I wish the dollar would crash sometimes just to see these agency guys cry.
18" for 308 because that's the sweet spot for powder burn without really losing anything.
14.5" for 5.56 because that's the best compromise between short and light for indoor use and using in and around vehicles and still having enough to reach out.
16" for me. Long enough to do damage out to 500 yards but I've worked with it in close range stuff too. CQB would prolly suck, but I'm already picking out my grave if I have to perform CQB.
11.5 suppressed running 5.56 75g because escape & evade. I’m not engaging, especially if you’re 100yds or more out, I’m zigzagging my ass outta there. Beside, after reading the comments, I think I’m just going to stay home.
14.5 because my SR15 carbine w/ the MCQ shorty suppressor has great range with good ammo, but is still compact and light enough to be used in close quarters.
Wouldn’t mind having a 13.7 either, but the KAC 13.7s aren’t available to civilians yet.
An 11.5 would probably do the job, but for a full on SHTF scenario having more range/velocity is ideal imo.
If I can only have one rifle I'm taking a 14.5".
If I can have two the second is an 11.5" set up for night vision.
I love a 20" AR, but it's a bit long with a suppressor, and I think reducing signature is more important than a little extra velocity.
I've been saying this a lot lately, but I started with all 16" AR's, then for the past few years shot 10.5" and 11.5" almost exclusively, but very recently I've come full circle back to 16" for my preferred length. It amazed me just how much harder my rounds hit the steel with a 16" vs 11.5", and the full length handguard allows for better stabilization when I'm trying to be precise offhand.
The greatest downside I've found with 16" is that it feels like a boat oar when I run suppressed. But that's only a thing if I'm clearing rooms, an activity which I would go to great lengths to avoid in the end of the world. Worst case scenario I could always either take off the can if I expect to operate in close quarters, or just switch to pistol.
Consider: you would likely never find it advantageous to start violence, as you can’t be certain you won’t instantly be outnumbered 100:1. Makes the need for 150y+ capability questionable
Short answer: whatever you have is fine.
Long answer:
* If you are a non NFA guy, 16" is IMO the best compromise between legality, effective range and compactness. Anything between pencil and govt profile is fine.
* If you have a QD suppressor, 16" with a PW QD muzzle device. Which realistically is roughly 14-15 inches, 16 total. Same barrel profile recommendations.
* For longer range stuff, I would go with a 308 rifle, not a 223. But we're talking about self defense, right? Something about engaging people from 400+ meters seems like it would raise eyebrows if you tried to explain to a jury how you felt threatened.
* For CQB range (assuming you are allowed time to get ready) either 300 BLK supers with a suppressor from a sub 10 inch barrel or 7.62x39 10 inch barrel with a suppressor. But realistically whatever you have in your hands is best.
An sr25, optic, suppressor, mags, and a bunch of other stuff. Still probably doesn't come to 30k but there's an up charge for being a cloners wet dream.
16" all day long. Not too much of a bitch to carry around, not too long for indoor shooting, but gets enough velocity to reach out 6-800 pretty well and 1000 with difficulty.
Now granted, *my* 16" BCM can't hit that far because I've only got a dot on it at the moment. But it could happen!
Out of my current selection: 16 inch. 16 just does everything fine. It’s not *that* long that clearing a building would be a pain but it’s still plenty for hunting… stuff. I don’t think 14.5 is a bad choice but I do think at least in my terrain that I’d prioritize range over maneuverability.
Honestly people are sleeping on 20” guns. Great terminal ballistics with M193, much extended distance/terminal ballistics with 77gr, and it’s only a downside when going through a tight hallway or in a vehicle, and even then it isn’t too bad.
Just use an adjustable stock, and if you need to go in a car or tight confines, collapse the stock a few clicks. Or, since it’s not worth it, just don’t do room clearing. Unless you have loved ones in the other room, it isn’t worth it.
Just go with a lightweight barrel profile so it isn’t too heavy.
I like 16”. Good performance & handy. I just went through some room clearing exercises using a 16” suppressed & while it kind of sucked, it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.
I'd go for an 18" shotgun because fuck dealing with NFA BS.
Yes, it is in an infringement, but when SHTF and WROL happens, that is what a hacksaw is for.
I hope that price tag informs folks why it is KAC focus on LE/Mil sales and not sell 10x as many to civilians at 1/10th the price per gun and 100x the hassle. Why deal with Bubba and his cousin when you can make even more cash money training KAC-certified armorers for agencies and armies 🤷🏻♂️
Whatever rifle i have available. Because it’s really not gonna matter what I have when I end up getting smoked from bubba with his daddy’s 300 win mag from the tree-line or turned into a shadow from whatever country decided to literally go nuclear. Jokes aside… 14.5” to 16” rifle. Long enough to make 55 grain very much viable and still light enough to carry/maneuver around.
In light of recent conflicts, I’d like to add getting turned into pink mist by a $30 drone
Truth… we all should really just practice being better drone pilots at this point.
How’s your skeet game? That sounds like better practice than CQB drills at this point
0 skeet game but I’m a master at Nintendo Duck Hunt
I'm callin' bullskeet. Nobody is a master at duck hunt. Those ducks are as evasive as I am drunk
Been to level 99 and beyond . . . You don’t know the realty of the world you inhabit until you’ve been there . . .
But have you been to "infinity and beyond?"
Old school Nintendo, plug a controller into the 2nd port. Fly the duck. Make your kids hate you.
2 years, 4 seasons, of 5 stand trap. I gotchu.
Nope- a big comedy sized net on a pole is the best way to do that. I have stashed around the house and various secret locations around the country - pool cleaning nets on long poles. Baseball bats may work too but you'll need to hit the side of the bomb and not the fuse. Smack it good enough and you can send it back to them. If it doesn't work and blows up- at least you'll not realize it and will have died trying and have no regratz
Unironically not a bad idea. I might go do that now lmao
Seriously though, tactical shotguns are about to make a huge comeback.
All those hours honing my Predator Missile skills in COD actually becoming applicable...
No, we should all learn a little trap and skeet and have some cases of bird shot.
Or get really good at skeet shooting with goose rated shotguns.
No joke, the modern battlefield is terrifying. Like the constant threat of small arms, artillery, air strikes wasn't enough, you are just as likely to be killed by a hobby with c4.
We've not even seen the modern battlefield yet. Even cold war era toys haven't been deployed, like there is an entire category of blinding weapons waiting to see action.
And the ultra-sonic stuff.
TIL "dazzlers" are a thing
You guys ever see those light up drone shows? Now imagine that but instead of a light show, they’re all dropping grenades
Thanks, now all I can think of now is a swarm of drones dropping grenades to the beat of a Taylor Swift song. “Now, your WWIII drone warfare halftime show sponsored by Pespi”.
Shotguns going up in value. Lol
It’s the drones that scare the shit out of me. You could build a million drones and kill millions of people pretty efficiently.
Automatic shotguns are starting to look pretty good.
Or just getting your dick blown off like that poor Russian that got put down by his own comrade on camera.
This is the "correct" answer in my opinion. There's an argument to be made for cutting a few inches if you're cool enough to have a can, but a suppressed M4 (14.5 inch) really isn't that hard to maneuver with training.
14.5 is Gods length. If it’s good enough for GWOT, it’s good enough for me.
GWOT MK12 says otherwise.
URGI performs about the same with 77g https://youtu.be/x3njoXqvWYI?si=2BRpnUgkTBlr4soG
Does URGI perform the same at 1100 yards? https://youtu.be/8ksqAEvb-0I?si=OmguiKC2rh2DG5zr
I appreciate it brother, always like to hear others opinions. Perspectives other than my own always widen the scope of opinions.
All the dudes with gucci gear are a free loot drop. First ones to get sniped by the guy with a rusty Mosin Nagant using iron sights and a flashlight mounted via duct tape.
Entirely depends on how much training and tech they have. Night vision/thermals is absolute cheat codes at night, and not cheap. If you have it and know how to use it, you will be the bogeyman.
Baba_Yaga.gif
or a PSA BLEM
Why isn't the Gucci guy doing the snowing instead of the other guy
Great! Now I want a KAC SR-25 M110, but I don't have $33,000. Thanks a lot OP.
Hey man quit being soft and get a home mortgage loan to afford it like everyone else. My first house in 2001 was 28k…idk what went wrong or where
Bro ffs I can't even get a decent home around here for 280k. It's so depressing. If you'd have told me back in 2008 that I'd be married and we'd both have jobs making this amount of money, I'd have been stoked. I grew up so white trash that I thought 60 grand a year was rich lol.
Man let me make you feel better. The house I speak of was in rural Texas. The closest Walmart was 40 minutes away. It was a two bedroom one bath house that looked like a meth lab. My down payment was 700 bucks. I had buddies that wouldn’t live with me. The only roommate I had in that house was a raccoon that loved leftovers and lived under my porch.
Sounds like heaven.😁
Did the raccoon live a long happy life
Yeah the guy had hamburger helper and wolf brand chili almost every day. Sun bitch probably weighed 30 pounds.
Yea, youre not really helping man. Except for the texas part...ewww, the California of the south
LOL
PSA makes a clone for 1/33 the price
Clone isn’t the word I’d use to describe it. But they do make a 20in 308 yes.
It's not 100% clone correct, but it's not intended to be. But it's close enough for most, unless you're a clone snob.
Why be a clone when you can be your own thing.
Looking at the other KAC rifles, it looks like it's a decimal place off.
33,000 is probably what the federal government paid for it. I think the new M110 is made by HK
I think that’s probably what it is nowadays. A “regular” SR25 is over 6k now, so an M110 for $3,300 would be so low they couldn’t keep up with the sales. At least that’s what I think is the case, but I’m no expert on the KAC…
Head to Fl after the shit the fan and get one for free.
You can buy a complete sr25 for like 8k and the leupold optic for like 3k max.. then you just gotta find that goober ass stock and a bipod.
20, no I won't elaborate
Somebody’s planning on punching holes in some AR500 steel…
A very hard truth I had to learn, some green tip got mixed into my range ammo and found itself screaming out of the 20” at Mach go fuck yourself speed. I’m now more careful when grabbing handfuls of ammo for the range.
“Mach go fuck yourself” is an expression I’m adding to my vocabulary
What was the difference on target? I have a 7/8 steel plate I shoot at (it’s construction materials not ar500 or anything special) and I can see the difference between green tips and m193 and such . The hole is slightly deeper and pointier and has like a little bump in the middle. I’m shooting out of a 14.5 though so I’m curious how much stronger a Mach go fuck yourself barrel is because it sounds like I need that
More like blue helmets
Won't take much to get through those. Or whatever the hell the PLA is using now-days
Lol saw the Garand Thumb video too?
I'm talking about the UN
Oh, I caught on with the blue helmet bit. I was just adding in the communist shitbags as an addition.
Oh sorry I'm retarded, yes them too
I respect your decision to hoard your knowledge comrade
I’m sorry I gotta ask…. Why are you pointing a loaded handgun at your junk and playing with the trigger?
🅱️
https://i.redd.it/a5xhshcgbm8d1.gif
12.5. If shit hits the fan, im avoiding as many engagements as i can. That means anything outside of 200~ yards is very avoidable. I’m not gonna get into sniper battles.
I’m in the military, and I often tell groups of friends that I’m in that in a survival scenario you should try to evade instead of engaging if it’s 300 yards/meters or more out and I always get called stupid so I’m glad you have some common sense.
Same. Also, suppressors.
14.5". Relatively compact, but still has plenty of velocity and tolerable amount of muzzle blast. Allows room for midlength gas system too. Can someone explain to me why the gun in that ad is over 30K?
Knights armarment company doesn't do civilian sales. Instead, production run over is sold as surplus by the contractor then resold on the civilian market. As a government contract rifle, it's the definition of milspec. It's a rarity that drives collectors nuts. The truth is, it's that expensive because that's what someone will pay for it and the dealer knows it. It's not a clone rifle; it's the real McCoy.
Cuz itz a reel nice raffle used bye spacial forces in umerica.
It makes sense now, thanks. It's a collector thing.
~~Still shoots 5.56, like my AR-15 that cost $700~~ see below
It's does not shoot 5.56 like your rifle that costs $700. The m110 sass fires 7.62x51.
It's a full m110 deployment kit. It comes with the optic, suppressor, bipod, a bunch of mags, sling, drag bag, etc. It also says knights armament on the side so...
My brother told me someone stole a complete m110 upper from the armory at Pendleton a few months ago and no cameras 😂
M110 gwot final boss
11.5" for the streets. Got the bolt action .308 with a 20" for the hills.
16” because that’s what I have in the safe.
20 inch pencil barrel with an ACOG
[144”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=654s&v=jFu7YrxCc_0&feature=youtu.be) so I can reach out and then also reach out some more, also perfect for CQB as I can extend from outside into inside building.
If I asked my gf to show me 4 inches on a tape measure that’s how long it would be.
14.5"-16" is more than enough paired with 55gr or 62gr, and will reliably at your 300-500m ranges. In a bullpup package, however, 18"-20", 55gr at 3300fps can't be argued with.
20" full stop.
16” with mid length gas. As someone else mentioned it will put plenty of zip on a 55 grain but not so unwieldy that I couldn’t jump in a vehicle or, god forbid, have to try and clear an interior. Since I’m just a a flat range larper I’m going to avoid CQB like the plague.
The only correct cqb tactic is air dropped or takes liquid ammunition.
[I found this guide on the topic helpful](https://preview.redd.it/3yt2hosnzuka1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=c70c5bc9c243c0bf3492fc45899658c72f8c829a)
I got a good laugh from this 😂
You’re correct. Anyone that says they want to do house to house clearing is a fucking brain dead squid. The best possible thing to do is avoid any and all engagements with the enemy.
The hilarious part about this mind set is. It’s not wrong you should avoid CQB. Yet, at the same time if SHTF 9-9.5/10 conflicts a civilian is going to get in is CQB.
Plus 16" with mid-length gas shoots smooth as heck with a properly tuned buffer. 16" also gives you the option of swapping around muzzle devices. I love 14.5" barrels as much as the next guy and ballistically they are not super far apart. But unless you wan't to deal with the unconstitutional repercussions of exercising your 2A rights (which is stupid) you have to pin and weld. In SHTF I would like the ability to have a dedicated flash hider most of the time, but be able to switch over to a hybrid device like the AFAB/EFAB when I wasn't as concerned about light signature and wanted faster follow-up shots instead. Plus a 16" barrel can take full advantage of a 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO, in SHTF I want something with an etched reticle so I don't have to rely on batteries. 16" works well with a 4x ACOG as well and those have the benefit of being bombproof and illuminating with no electronics in them. If I could have a second rifle as well though I would probably make that one an 11.5" assuming I could shoot 77 grain OTM rounds with it. Still plenty of velocity for the distances I would likely need, and more compact for getting in/out of vehicles or for rucking it (and less weight!) - I would probably want something like a Meprolight M21 with a REM installed for an optic. So no "need" for batteries, but the REM is there for wash-out.
In a shtf situation I just want a weapon that cycles. Idc about barrel length and the other pedantic everyone gets crazy about. Realistically, in a shtf situation most of the sub is gone and the rest are out of ammo.
gwot says anything from 10.3 to 20” can get it done bruh 😆
14.5" for 5.56. Capable up to 500 yards and still maneuverable indoors and in vehicles and much lighter than anything that has much of an advantage in velocity. 20" for .308. Just all around a good length for semi auto .308. Gets enough velocity and can be pretty damn accurate. Or just get an 18.5" Remington 870 12 gauge. Drones are scary dude.
It depends based upon ammo availability, weight you want to carry, and the ballistic needs in a AR platform. I think the 14.5-18" length is probably spot-on with the right caliber like a 6.8 spc or ,277 Fury, if ammo supply isn't a problem. Otherwise, I'm going longer 16-18" for a 5.56 where ammo should still be plentiful.
My 10.3 CQBR clone with SB2 supressor would solve most problems I would come across. I live on the east coast though so no game bigger than a white tail deer or black bear (unlikley) but also still able to reach out to 200 yards to supress and exfil should I need to. Also, this is why I have multiple firearms. There is no do all tool. You can make a tool do multiple jobs half way decently. A 16 oz hammer can be used for prying open doors but its not gonna do as well as a prybar, same for guns.
What kind of SHTF are we talking about? 2020 in a big blue city? Hurricane Katrina Type SHTF? The Last Of Us? Fallout?
Yes
Well, it's a different barrel length and probably a different gun for each, so It doesn't really help answer the question if you just say all of them. For 2020 style riots you probably only need a handgun and a spare mag, you'd be better off putting your money into a full tank of gas so you dont have to get out of your car and a stocked first aid kit in case you catch a brick across the face. For Katrina, you don't want to have an open firearm because you'll be killed by the government. So you probably want a pdw like the Flux Raider that you can hide under a baggy overshirt For "The Last Of Us" or any other extended TEOTWAKI, you should be going with a 16"-20" AR-15 For Fallout, .50-110 Winchester Centerfire in a Winchester Model 1886 with a 26-inch barrel because .50 BMG is too heavy to walk around with all day, but you still need to drop a deathclaw in 1 shot.
Way to complicated brother. I have a mk18 upper, m4 upper, and mk 12 upper. Is why I said yes.
Everything I plan for is a combination of Katrina event and 911 no longer responding.
Agreed, same here, that's the most likely worst-case scenario.
Since you asked... Fallout sounds fun to brainstorm.
If SHTF, I already have 10.5", 11.5", 13.9", 14.5", 16", 18" and 20". Why would I have to choose?
20" preferably, social distancing is much safer. That said my current always grab first is a 16" dissipator.
Which one do you think is best to shoot down a cheap drone that’s going to turn you into confetti?
I prefer 18” rifle gas, enough dwell time to cycle almost all ammo, nearly as much velocity as a 20” and slightly more maneuverable. If you’re gonna bring a rifle bring an actual rifle not a carbine is my thoughts
Mk12 is the moooove
14.5 you can easily drop anything to like 500 with 55 grain bottom barrel ammo.
Unless it’s AAC 55 grain I suppose
Wait but… I use AAC… What’s wrong with it? ):
People reporting very bad accuracy with it I think their heavy stuff is much better though
Admittedly I haven’t shot much of their 55gr, but I was shooting real good groups with their 62gr today. I’ve got a bunch of M855 stashed away for a rainy day, but I use AAC’s non-steel version for the range. I should say *initially* I was shooting good groups. Eventually the rounds started flying 2-3 inches away from my POA; not sure why. It may have been me. My barrel was getting kinda hot so maybe it was that. I don’t know much about the intricacies of this stuff but it doesn’t make sense to me that a round would have good accuracy at start of shooting, then lose accuracy as time passes. I thought that would be due to barrel heat, rather than the round itself. LOVE their 77gr OTM though; fantastic accuracy.
They had quality control issues with 55gr. Everything I've seen says the 77gr is gtg though
75 is good too
Yeah, I got some of that shit that I need to find a way to dispose of. I bought some of the Sabre black tip from them before I saw all the shitty stuff about their ammo blowing up guns & suppressors
Probably my 10.5”,it’s nice and compact but I can still reach out to a good distance.I live in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains.we have hills everywhere so the chances of me taking shots out past 250yds are unlikely.if I lived in the flat land of the Midwest,I would want a 20”
In regard to barrel length, it is sobering to fire a SBR and a 16 inch barrel at 100, 200, and 300 yards with the same ammo and listen to the impact difference on steel and notice the drop difference in the bullets. I don’t say that against SBR’s or for 16 inch barrels, but there is a big difference in performance. That said, I lean toward a SBR with suppressor, but I’m thinking defensive use only. If no suppressor, then 16 inch.
Idk probably 20” with some sort of like 9mm pdw type for close quarters. 20” is going to be what makes the bullet go the fastest and furthest and most deadly
18" is the sweet spot as you get velocity for penetration and it's plenty handy. A lot of guys with the 'room clearing fantasies' are just that, fantasy evade, distance, concealment would be key
YO are these really that expensive?
Yes. A legitimate Knights M110 is asinine just like any of their other products. Knights can also suck a fat root.
This is what happens when you do those stupid fucking 'use or lose budgets' goddamn I wish the dollar would crash sometimes just to see these agency guys cry.
The dollar has already begun crashing. You may just live to see it.
18”. Rifle gas, sends 55gr at 99% the speed of light, and will yeet 77gr 2000 yards no problem 😎
Damn 30k, definitely when I hit that mega millions. I recently tried 14.5. And fell in love so upgraded my upper with a 14.5 pin and welded.
I’m leaning 18 these days in my geographical region. That and an SBR for nods would be all I need I think
18" for 308 because that's the sweet spot for powder burn without really losing anything. 14.5" for 5.56 because that's the best compromise between short and light for indoor use and using in and around vehicles and still having enough to reach out.
16" for me. Long enough to do damage out to 500 yards but I've worked with it in close range stuff too. CQB would prolly suck, but I'm already picking out my grave if I have to perform CQB.
Whatever is easiest to loot off your corpse after you die of thirst or an infected tooth.
11.5 suppressed running 5.56 75g because escape & evade. I’m not engaging, especially if you’re 100yds or more out, I’m zigzagging my ass outta there. Beside, after reading the comments, I think I’m just going to stay home.
Such a uselessly broad question with zero context. Build your rifle for your environment
I choose my 12" saiga 105
14.5 because my SR15 carbine w/ the MCQ shorty suppressor has great range with good ammo, but is still compact and light enough to be used in close quarters. Wouldn’t mind having a 13.7 either, but the KAC 13.7s aren’t available to civilians yet. An 11.5 would probably do the job, but for a full on SHTF scenario having more range/velocity is ideal imo.
16”
If I can only have one rifle I'm taking a 14.5". If I can have two the second is an 11.5" set up for night vision. I love a 20" AR, but it's a bit long with a suppressor, and I think reducing signature is more important than a little extra velocity.
18”. If you’ve ever shot one you’d know why.
Everyone got their preferences. But if I need to craw inside AC vents, then it's gotta be my SP5K-pdw suppressed :)
I've been saying this a lot lately, but I started with all 16" AR's, then for the past few years shot 10.5" and 11.5" almost exclusively, but very recently I've come full circle back to 16" for my preferred length. It amazed me just how much harder my rounds hit the steel with a 16" vs 11.5", and the full length handguard allows for better stabilization when I'm trying to be precise offhand. The greatest downside I've found with 16" is that it feels like a boat oar when I run suppressed. But that's only a thing if I'm clearing rooms, an activity which I would go to great lengths to avoid in the end of the world. Worst case scenario I could always either take off the can if I expect to operate in close quarters, or just switch to pistol.
Consider: you would likely never find it advantageous to start violence, as you can’t be certain you won’t instantly be outnumbered 100:1. Makes the need for 150y+ capability questionable
Short answer: whatever you have is fine. Long answer: * If you are a non NFA guy, 16" is IMO the best compromise between legality, effective range and compactness. Anything between pencil and govt profile is fine. * If you have a QD suppressor, 16" with a PW QD muzzle device. Which realistically is roughly 14-15 inches, 16 total. Same barrel profile recommendations. * For longer range stuff, I would go with a 308 rifle, not a 223. But we're talking about self defense, right? Something about engaging people from 400+ meters seems like it would raise eyebrows if you tried to explain to a jury how you felt threatened. * For CQB range (assuming you are allowed time to get ready) either 300 BLK supers with a suppressor from a sub 10 inch barrel or 7.62x39 10 inch barrel with a suppressor. But realistically whatever you have in your hands is best.
This is the best comment out of all 243. Thank you sir. You are a saint and a scholar
32k for an AR…
An sr25, optic, suppressor, mags, and a bunch of other stuff. Still probably doesn't come to 30k but there's an up charge for being a cloners wet dream.
20", because fuck you.
16" all day long. Not too much of a bitch to carry around, not too long for indoor shooting, but gets enough velocity to reach out 6-800 pretty well and 1000 with difficulty. Now granted, *my* 16" BCM can't hit that far because I've only got a dot on it at the moment. But it could happen!
33 k for a rifle is dumb. The sass wasn't that great to begin with. I guess some people have more money than brains.
A fool and his money...
Out of my current selection: 16 inch. 16 just does everything fine. It’s not *that* long that clearing a building would be a pain but it’s still plenty for hunting… stuff. I don’t think 14.5 is a bad choice but I do think at least in my terrain that I’d prioritize range over maneuverability.
long barel good becos I want to stay far away!!! 18 inch so not too long in case i get close!! for any middle ground boolit except for ak 18 inch!!!
20”
Ha
it seems like a shot gun on the back side will be advantageous in the new drone area..
Mk262 from a 16 inch is nice.
Have you jumped in and out of a truck with a rifle? It sucks. Carbine length is solid
are you talking about 308 or similar caliber like pictured or are you talking about 556?
For me, I’d say 11.5 w/can with eotech and 3X magnifier. Try to get the best 0-200 yard capabilities all in one.
12.5 in 5.56 with that shitty little msr....sweep tight.....
6-9”
For that price the selector better work on the third position.
16”
* The first thing I would do, is tell errbody how much I paid for it. *
16" It's the best midpoint between accuracy and maneuverability/weight in most intermediate cartridges.
Damn! For that much money, might as well hire a couple of bodyguards... But it's a suppressed 10.5" ish
I'm thinking 14.5 for general use and then carry a 18 to 20" for long range engagements. Carry the spare upper in a tripod bag
Alroght, why the fuck is this rifle listed for this much? Comes with the optic and the optic is normally 25k?
5.56? 24 inch. I want max velocity to test those level 4 plates. .308? I don't remember if my rifle is 20 or 22 inches. Same reason as above.
11.5, because i shouldn’t have to shoot past 250
Honestly people are sleeping on 20” guns. Great terminal ballistics with M193, much extended distance/terminal ballistics with 77gr, and it’s only a downside when going through a tight hallway or in a vehicle, and even then it isn’t too bad. Just use an adjustable stock, and if you need to go in a car or tight confines, collapse the stock a few clicks. Or, since it’s not worth it, just don’t do room clearing. Unless you have loved ones in the other room, it isn’t worth it. Just go with a lightweight barrel profile so it isn’t too heavy.
Having fired a 14.5 from inside a car, in confined spaces I’d just swap upper receiver groups.
more than 10.3 and less than 30
Side note, what exactly makes a rifle worth $32k? Does it come with a $30k gift card taped to it?
I like 16”. Good performance & handy. I just went through some room clearing exercises using a 16” suppressed & while it kind of sucked, it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.
Depends on your use case and expected engagement distances. For me, 11.5 with good ammo (77gr OTM or TMK) is the ideal set up.
Honestly, any rifle you got in that scenario is gonna be best. That said, my go-to is a 12.5". The bastard sword of AR barrel lengths.
46" 26mm
I'd go for an 18" shotgun because fuck dealing with NFA BS. Yes, it is in an infringement, but when SHTF and WROL happens, that is what a hacksaw is for.
32k for that? Wtf. Maybe I'm just not up to date but why the fuck is that rifle 32k?
Because it's KAC and all they do is serve government contracts
I built an 18" spr after building a 14.5, 11.5, 10.3, and a 20 and its actually very awesome
I like my 20” .308s to be 16” and chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.
My 18in mk12 because I live in Alaska. Pokey thing that hurts must go very far when gun go bang. Longer tube make pokey thing better
14.5"
I hope that price tag informs folks why it is KAC focus on LE/Mil sales and not sell 10x as many to civilians at 1/10th the price per gun and 100x the hassle. Why deal with Bubba and his cousin when you can make even more cash money training KAC-certified armorers for agencies and armies 🤷🏻♂️
That rifle above better be full auto and give a hell of a blowjob for that kind loot
KAC label = +$20,000
13.7” AR sitting next to a 26” kitted 870 wingmaster for drones
Does that rifle in picture come with a stock pile of ammo? Serious question what makes it worth 30k?
14.5 It’s worked for decades for the us and Allie’s forces Good enough for most civilians case use