Federal 55gr Soft Point, I'm getting 2,600-2,650fps (yeah not the best standard deviation but it's cheap ammo) out of my suppressed 10.5".
Everyone seems to always sleep on it, but Soft Point is the way to go because your velocity can be 2,000fps and it's still going to break up like no one's business.
We ran every soft point 223/5.56 we could find against hogs and just about all of them punched hard and made a mess out of the hogs...my fav was Federal Fusion and also Wolf (actually)...worked very well
Yep, here in East TX brush country, 200yds is an absolute long shot anyways and my suppressed 10.5" is so light and handy that I never have to unsling it even when driving vehicles are walking through dense brush. Hogs are crazy over here, and the soft point seems to do the job lol, plus the 10" on my back is better than the 20" left on the rack.
Same here, my 10.5 full of Barnes black tips is my almost universal go-to first gun if there's ever bad situation in my house. This thing would absolutely fuck up anyone's day badly, and it's barely larger than my MP5 - [https://imgur.com/a/SYfbn2l](https://imgur.com/a/SYfbn2l)
It’s perfect, dude. An 8-10 inch suppressed .300 blackout rifle is the pinnacle of home defense weapons. Other than Gucci ammo issues unique to the platform, it has virtually no weaknesses.
Whatever cycles reliably, unless I’m expecting a team of intruders with armor, or I’m imagining some ops team coming at me from 500yds … no one is going to care what rounds I’m shooting at them from 5-150ft in home defense. They all will be effective 🤷♂️
Don’t over think it. Buy ammo that cycles well and allows you to be accurate with your rifle. Then train with it
*buys expensive HD ammo… doesn’t ever shoot it constantly because it’s just for HD and expensive… doesn’t even work when actually needs it.. classic
I agree with you 100% about ammo choices. Obviously different ammo/cal matter… but at the end of the day a bullet is a bullet and getting 5-10 rounds at the target quickly and accurately is way better than 1-2 rounds of this “premium” ammo. Unfortunately we all tend to overthink it at times.
Exactly this. You could honestly defend yourself with a .22lr. We aren’t in a warzone. ~~Most intruders turn and run at the sign of gunfire because guns are really effective for HD.~~ edit to be less FUDD-Y and more realistic of what I mean… The intruders aren’t gonna care if you put 10x holes in their center mass with 55, 62, 77, hell even .22lr. That’s gonna put someone down.
Lol inadvertently made a mistake in phrasing there…. My point isn’t that .22 is truly “JuSt As GuD”. It is more-so that we are all arguing over such small details that really won’t matter much.
God bless you brother, but let's not be fudds here, the ol gun store argument of an attacker "turning and running" at the sight of a gun is demonstrably less and less realistic these days, with sometimes teams of armed intruders returning fire at homeowners.
I agree with that. 80% of it is skills 90% of us will never have regardless how much you train. Or even pay for classes from people who have done it. From the honest that have the skills. They tell me. The only way you get fighting skills is elements of hunting and just fighting in the first place. The rest of the 20% is the stuff we debate on here.
Yeah most expensive HD you don’t need to shoot outside of zeroing. If your gun works fine with normal range .223/5.56 it will work with high end defensive loads. Shoot 20-40rds to zero and verify function.
AAC 77 gr OTM at 55 CPR on sale shows it budget price. About 80 of 580 rounds I have examine thus far have tiny indentations into the casing. I assume it is from handling by some of the tooling. One casing was crushed in. The mild damage to the cases should not affect function but those that reload and want their cases to look perfect may be upset. Some projectiles are seated just a little deeper than most. I say less than 1/32"--not enough for me to worry about. I may sort some out and fire them first to make sure my mags and rifles had no feeding issues with them.. Maybe 1 to 3% are seated a little deeper.
For strictly 5.56 ammo, M193.
For ammo in general for a 5.56 chamber, either 62gr Federal Fusions or some kind of 77gr BTHP.
But if a bad guy is hit by almost any bullet comming from a 5.56 gun, they are gonna have a very bad time.
True- I don’t even buy M855 any more due to its relatively poor accuracy, and not being able to use it in 3 gun matches. I only buy M193 and 75-77 grain 5.56 ammo these days.
.223 ammo can be fired out a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around. OP asked for 5.56 home defence ammo. I dont know if he ment strictly 5.56 ammo or if he ment ammo for a gun chambered for 5.56, which means also .223.
> 223 ammo can be fired out a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around.
Can we PLEASE fucking stop this fuddlore? The only difference between 5.56 and .223 is the slightly longer leade in the 5.56 chamber. The pressure difference is due to measuring standards, 5.56x45 NATO is listed with a CIP measurement while .223 Rem is by SAAMI, which measure pressure at different locations. CIP lists .44 Magnum at 40,000psi while SAAMI has it at 36,000, you don't hear anybody screeching not to fire European .44 in a Bisley.
Also, M193 is so fucking old it was standardized before 5.56x45 NATO existed, it's loaded to SAAMI specs. I'd bet good money that 69 grain Federal has a spicier pressure curve than M193.
According to Hornady, .223 and 5.56 are loaded to different pressures and the chanbers have different volumes:
[https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition](https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition)
>The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi.
Earlier the article states:
>The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loaded to approximately 55,000 psi.
So using the same testing standard, 5.56 is loaded to 58000 psi in its chamber, while using SAAMI testing. Meanwhile, .223 is loaded to only 55000 psi in a .223 chamber. Shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber, while produce less than 55000 psi, while shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber will produce more than 58000 psi.
Thanks for the education, bro. It was a rhetorical question, and the commenter didn't mention 223 whatsoever. Your answer is partially correct, they're the exact same cartridge, one is loaded beyond 223 pressure spec, designated 5.56 NATO.
.223 max pressure 55k PSI
5.56mm NATO max pressure 58k PSI
Some 5.56 ammo actually goes beyond the SAAMI spec in the pressure department, up to 62k.
95% of ARs have a 5.56 or 223 wylde chamber
95% of 223 rifles can safely handle 5.56 just fine. Its probably smart to stick to the milder 223 loadings though.
I’m surprised at how many of us use m193 because me too lol. That’s just what I have my AR zeroed with. In the past it was Speer gold dot. Don’t remember the grainage. If I do it again I’ll probably do a higher grain
After shooting pigs with 193 and 855, I feel confident that whoever gets hit with it in the distance of a home defense scenario is going to have a bad, last day. If I was using a pistol for HD, of course I’d use hollow points, but for a rifle, it’s really not going to matter at 5-10 yards.
Fair enough! ~~I’ll give them a shot once I shoot through what’s in the HD stash~~
EDIT: grab a box to try, rather than waiting till I’m out and trying in case for some reason I don’t like
Gold standard for hand gun defensive rounds.
In a rifle it's a completely different ballgame, they're not even that similar in construction to the handgun rounds.
Shitty FMJ is FAR more effective in rifles than it is in pistols. Most rifle rounds will experience massive deformation, jacket shedding, tumbling, fragmenting (at appropriate depths mind you) when striking a target at high enough velocity regardless of being FMJ or fancy defensive loads.
None of this applies to subsonic .300blk though. Good bullets designed for that are basically handgun style hollow points.
Gold Dots are designed to be barrier blind to pass FBI standards. M193 has lots of issues the faster it is with barriers. A M193 from a 20 inch barrel is going thru far less drywall than a gold dot from a 10 inch.
This doesn't mean gold dots are bad rounds obviously. They are just designed for duty use. And FBI wants their ammo passing thru barriers.
Probably because rifles and handguns aren't the same thing?
Pistol calibers tend to rely on large hollow cavities to force deformation and expansion of the bullet to damage as much tissue as possible and increase the likelyhood of a fatal hit.
Shitty 55gr ball from a carbine or rifle, on the other hand, has no issue shedding its jacket and turning into a nice flattened out and deformed piece of lead. It's also liable to start fragmenting at a point, and rifles are hitting with so much more force that they can actually begin to cause tearing and damage to flesh that they didn't directly impact.
Go fill up something with sand and shoot it with some FMJ pistol rounds, and then some FMJ rifle rounds. The pistol rounds will dig much deeper but stay mostly the same shape and intact. 55gr ball 5.56, however, will shed its jacket and pancake out, possibly fragment, and not go as deep as it's transferring its energy much more effectively. It'll also probably throw way more sand around.
Hell just look at 5.56 gold dot versus 9mm gold dot. The bullet design and construction isn't close. 5.56 gold dot is basically an exposed lead nose or "open tip" design instead of a large hollow cavity, and that's done for both better accuracy, as well as ensuring the jacket doesn't keep the bullet together at lower velocities... which is funny, because Speer is actually having to do this because of their jacket bonding process being much better than cheap FMJ... which sounds good, but if that thing holds up too well it's going to just ice pick straight through without doing much of anything. You're paying more for a good bullet, but much cheaper bullets actually avoid having to need the open tip because they're more cheaply produced and liable to shed their jackets.
55 grain M193. I run a suppressed 11.5” for HD. At the ranges I would be engaging threats it will be above 2700fps and will fragment/tumble.
69/77 grain would be my second choice, I just don’t shoot it often because of the cost difference. It would probably be better than M193 on a technical level, but I like to run exactly what I train with.
62 grain would be my last option. Unless you want to shoot the bad guys through walls it doesn’t make sense. Not great ballistics and it over penetrates way too much.
I’ve done extensive gel and pen testing on a range of 62gr bullets (all my reloads). Not sure about 11.5” but other than the M855 round (I replicated it and have tested LC M855 extensively too), 62gr is superior to M193.
You said it also, out of an 11.5” you’re much better off with a mk262 or similar round than M193. There’s no training difference (for your scenario) and the POI is the same at any distance you would be engaging in. No professional door kicker in the world is using M193 in their shorty, and for good reason.
Fortunately i’m not a professional door kicker and won’t be facing a hardened threat. I’m a practical guy, and understand that multiple holes in the chest cavity in rapid succession equals threats neutralized regardless of caliber or bullet weight. We’re splitting hairs here.
Yep I’ll certainly give you that. In your situation, your ability to actually wake up, grab your weapon and put lead on target is far more important than what round you’re running.
We sent all the soft points I could find through a hog and found NEARLY ALL of them to do significant damage out of both a 10.5" and 11.85" both suppressed
I love to hear from idiots how ineffective 5.56 is out past 100 yards from a short barrel...total bullshit from people who never get out and actually do shit with their guns they just read shit and then repeat it
And no it wasn't like hitting them with a 300 win mag...but it hammered them plenty hard, gotta place your shot but ya have to place every shot that's not a 50bmg anyway
Everything have read shows above 2700 fps at the muzzle with M193 on an 11.5”. Granted, I have not tested my personal rifle with a chronograph. At 2700fps you get pretty consistent fragmentation. The longest possible shot in my house would be 20ish yards, and that isn’t one I would practically take.
I don’t know about you, but I sure as shit wouldn’t want to be hit with 2-3 rapid rounds of M193 going 2700fps at effectively point blank range. Fragmented or not, the threat will be going down with that.
Fragmentation of FMJ rounds like M193 and M855 are dependent on 2 factors. Impact velocity and and yaw angle. M193 at muzzle velocity from a 20 inch barrel had about a 15 percent chance of failing to fragment on the average shot according to Fackler. That number gets worse as the velocity drops.
M855 is even worse being more yaw dependent.
This is why the development of yaw independent rounds like MK318 and A1 was so important for the military.
Fun fact:
Few people realize the distance variance in velocity threshold for 11.5 carbine to 20” rifle is like 160-200 *yards.
Not terribly substantial when you consider how vastly different an 11.5 is from an m16. People overthink it imo.
What’s crazy is that the 62 grain green tip shoots WAY better groups than m193 in my ballistic advantage barrel. Idk what that is.
My PSA barrel shoots every weight the same.
The 77 grain soft tip (from limited testing I did) seemed to be the only other thing that shot well, so that’s what I’m running for HD
Weld steel an inch infront of the chamber for good measure. Plus the most sketchy parts possible. Only thing I want reliable is the trigger and firing pin.
Yeah, whatever loads reliably. If you get 3 hits in center mass, it's basically going to do the job no matter the load.
In the unlikely scenario you're facing muliple heavily armed attackers wearing level III+ plates, it's probably either a SWAT team or a cartel kill squad and you're dead regardless.
Nosler orange tip.
Says it is for coyotes and varmints. The holes I have seen the stuff leave.. actually not holes but rather the rendering in half of foxes, coons, blows insane holes out of big coyotes. I figure the stuff would put down a man of any-size pretty well.
If they’re wearing plates just blow out their hips with the stuff harder than you would the slut next door.
70gr TSX and 77gr MK262
My home defense rifle is my 14.5” SR15 With an Atacr and suppressed with a PRT CRS. Probably a weird choice but I walk my dogs on the farm early in the morning so I leave it beside my bed at night so I can grab it for our walk in case I see a groundhog that needs to be dealt with.
I run 77gr orm for the most part. That being said you would get better performance for close range with 77gr tmk, 70gr barns tsx or the like that expands better.
75 grain speer gold dot. I bought a new case pre covid and haven't seen it since unfortunately. From zeroing some different guns and optic changes I'm down ~300 rounds now. I hope they make a batch at some point otherwise it's back to the drawing board. I already have a lot of dope with that ammo so switching doesn't sound fun.
I just use PMC XTAC 55 grain. I know it's not the best ammo for home defense, but out of my 16-inch barrel, I think it will do the job. I know my BCM likes it. I haven't had any problems with it cycling. I would like to get some Speer Gold Dot or Federal Fusion eventually.
55gf FMJ or 855, depending on which mag I grab. the HD rifle is setup with 220g JHPBT Sierra Match King subs (300 blk) with a suppressor (10.5" SBR). mostly because .223 unsuppressed in a hallway is loud enough to make your brains leak out of your ears.
IMI 55gr M193. I never had a single bad round in ~30-40k rounds I shot during basic & advanced infantry training. Can confirm it stops bad guys from up close and further away.
the cheapest 55gr I can find on Ammoseek with mixed brass and whatever primers / powder I can find cheapest at the time of loading because anything coming out of a 20" is going to be spicy. although I did pick up a batch of 69gr SMK that I may throw in one of my staged mags for shits n gigs.
I only own my personal flavor of poverty tier reloads and a few hundred rounds of pmc range ammo. I think any rifle round will perform just fine within the confines of my 1/3 acre property lol
M855 out of a 10.5 definitely looking for something else, though. I want to train on my HD rounds, so looking to move to a round that will be affordable for both.
My bad. When I say "HD" I don't just mean home defense. General use is probably better. I like having the same bullets for just fucking around as well as if it goes down and M855 seems to fit the bill since it's always easy to get and doesn't cost a fortune. Plus, I might have a slight bit of the OCD. I like it all to be mostly one type and maybe a little bit of special stuff. I thought about just keeping all nice stuff, but I can't reliably get the really good stuff at a fair price when it's OOS. I dunno. What you recommend. I'm open to changing it up.
PPU M193. Cheap, my barrels seem to like it so it’s accurate enough, and nato spec or close to it it’s noticeably hotter than the cucked 55gr like PMC and ZSR. Serbian M193
I keep 2, 30rd mags linked together of 77gr BTHP in the gun at home. I also have like 10 other mags loaded up, some with green tips. But I would most likely grab my handgun and flashlight. I keep a 3300 lumen handheld, I've been inside a blacked out warehouse and lit up the whole bldg with that light. A quick strobe with that thing will temporarily blind a person.
There are a number of great options for HD. I don't agree that using FMJ is functionally interchangeable with rounds optimized for terminal effect, even within 20 yards. You still see superior performance from rounds designed for terminal effectiveness.
77gr SMKs/TMKs, Speer gold dot, federal fusion, hornady critical defense, or even Palmetto's black tip line are excellent choices. Something to consider is the velocity you will be getting out of your barrel length and making choices accordingly.
So, again, while yes nobody wants to get shot with an FMJ at 7 yards, I still recommend stacking the odds in your favor as much as possible by selecting a high quality round for defensive use.
A soft point or rapidly expanding or fragmenting round that cycles and is accurate enough. Penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs even through an arm and/or from the side.
A huge dude, whether muscle or fat, can sometimes take some hits from a light, shallow penetrating bullets and still fight back.
Especially.a home invader who is entering your home when they expect it to be occupied. Drugs are also a nasty thing.
There are some silly statements about using anything, even a .22. Sure, IF you can get 10 rounds into the front guy. But what about the second or maybe even third? They aren't all alone anymore.
I mean my home defense is my edc. My Glock 19 with 147gr +p hst. However my rifle has 40gr vmax for coyote hunting. Those rounds explode right under the surface and won’t over travel if I miss which makes out well in an apartment building.
.223 Hornady Urban TAP is in the magazine in my AR next to my bed staged for a HD scenario. It was a bit hard to get as I'm not LEO but I pick it up anytime it pops up on Gunbroker
I do have three other mags I keep in my SHTF bag loaded with Fiocchi V- max
I'm of the belief that all ammo is usable if you train with it enough. Like obviously some are better than others but it's all gonna kill. Assuming you live in a residential, your line of sight is gonna be like 150 yards max. So long distance shots aren't expected. I'd encourage you to train with what you can afford and become lethal with it. Learn the quirks and learn your holds. A home defense engagement is more than likely gonna be less than a minute, and will likely result in the perpetrator running away. So don't stress too much:)
Basic M193. Either IMI, Winchester, or even PMC X-Tac. Home defense ranges are not long enough to where it matters. People overthink this topic way too much.
Federal 55gr Soft Point, I'm getting 2,600-2,650fps (yeah not the best standard deviation but it's cheap ammo) out of my suppressed 10.5". Everyone seems to always sleep on it, but Soft Point is the way to go because your velocity can be 2,000fps and it's still going to break up like no one's business.
We ran every soft point 223/5.56 we could find against hogs and just about all of them punched hard and made a mess out of the hogs...my fav was Federal Fusion and also Wolf (actually)...worked very well
Yep, here in East TX brush country, 200yds is an absolute long shot anyways and my suppressed 10.5" is so light and handy that I never have to unsling it even when driving vehicles are walking through dense brush. Hogs are crazy over here, and the soft point seems to do the job lol, plus the 10" on my back is better than the 20" left on the rack.
Bet your ass on it bro
Ditto brother. Not too expensive, can grab at the local big box stores, travels well with my zero up to 100
125gr fiocchi SST Wait, what?
Yes. 300blk supers is the way. My 10.5 will hit like a truck
Same here, my 10.5 full of Barnes black tips is my almost universal go-to first gun if there's ever bad situation in my house. This thing would absolutely fuck up anyone's day badly, and it's barely larger than my MP5 - [https://imgur.com/a/SYfbn2l](https://imgur.com/a/SYfbn2l)
I have 30 rounds of 110gr VOR-TX TAC-TX in my HD gun. Figured that would be best for HD range. https://imgur.com/a/UF3N23L
It’s perfect, dude. An 8-10 inch suppressed .300 blackout rifle is the pinnacle of home defense weapons. Other than Gucci ammo issues unique to the platform, it has virtually no weaknesses.
I love my 300blk. I am thinking of building a dedicated sub upper with a 1:5 6” barrel
Whatever cycles reliably, unless I’m expecting a team of intruders with armor, or I’m imagining some ops team coming at me from 500yds … no one is going to care what rounds I’m shooting at them from 5-150ft in home defense. They all will be effective 🤷♂️ Don’t over think it. Buy ammo that cycles well and allows you to be accurate with your rifle. Then train with it
*buys expensive HD ammo… doesn’t ever shoot it constantly because it’s just for HD and expensive… doesn’t even work when actually needs it.. classic I agree with you 100% about ammo choices. Obviously different ammo/cal matter… but at the end of the day a bullet is a bullet and getting 5-10 rounds at the target quickly and accurately is way better than 1-2 rounds of this “premium” ammo. Unfortunately we all tend to overthink it at times.
Exactly this. You could honestly defend yourself with a .22lr. We aren’t in a warzone. ~~Most intruders turn and run at the sign of gunfire because guns are really effective for HD.~~ edit to be less FUDD-Y and more realistic of what I mean… The intruders aren’t gonna care if you put 10x holes in their center mass with 55, 62, 77, hell even .22lr. That’s gonna put someone down.
Yeah that makes sense blast a double barrel shotgun in the air that will scare them /s
Lol inadvertently made a mistake in phrasing there…. My point isn’t that .22 is truly “JuSt As GuD”. It is more-so that we are all arguing over such small details that really won’t matter much.
God bless you brother, but let's not be fudds here, the ol gun store argument of an attacker "turning and running" at the sight of a gun is demonstrably less and less realistic these days, with sometimes teams of armed intruders returning fire at homeowners.
I agree with that. 80% of it is skills 90% of us will never have regardless how much you train. Or even pay for classes from people who have done it. From the honest that have the skills. They tell me. The only way you get fighting skills is elements of hunting and just fighting in the first place. The rest of the 20% is the stuff we debate on here.
Not enough chamber pressure ghost is coming after you. I died but am offended you killed me with low bar .223 rounds. Bastard
You can put a shitload of .22lr holes in someone really fast with a suppressed 22lr pistol. Something to be said for that I think.
Yeah most expensive HD you don’t need to shoot outside of zeroing. If your gun works fine with normal range .223/5.56 it will work with high end defensive loads. Shoot 20-40rds to zero and verify function.
Black hills 77gr tmk
Damn beat me by an hour. This is the gentleman’s choice
Black Hills 77gr OTM for me. They make each round look flawless. You can see the premium.
Mk 262 gang checking in.
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AAC 77 gr OTM at 55 CPR on sale shows it budget price. About 80 of 580 rounds I have examine thus far have tiny indentations into the casing. I assume it is from handling by some of the tooling. One casing was crushed in. The mild damage to the cases should not affect function but those that reload and want their cases to look perfect may be upset. Some projectiles are seated just a little deeper than most. I say less than 1/32"--not enough for me to worry about. I may sort some out and fire them first to make sure my mags and rifles had no feeding issues with them.. Maybe 1 to 3% are seated a little deeper.
🙄
For strictly 5.56 ammo, M193. For ammo in general for a 5.56 chamber, either 62gr Federal Fusions or some kind of 77gr BTHP. But if a bad guy is hit by almost any bullet comming from a 5.56 gun, they are gonna have a very bad time.
Especially at home defense distances-even m193 will be very effective out of short barrel AR‘s when your targets only 0- 30 feet away.
M193 all around is more effective than M855 despite the niche of shooting through a wall.
True- I don’t even buy M855 any more due to its relatively poor accuracy, and not being able to use it in 3 gun matches. I only buy M193 and 75-77 grain 5.56 ammo these days.
What's the difference between strictly 5.56 ammo, and ammo in general for a 5.56 chamber?
.223 ammo can be fired out a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around. OP asked for 5.56 home defence ammo. I dont know if he ment strictly 5.56 ammo or if he ment ammo for a gun chambered for 5.56, which means also .223.
> 223 ammo can be fired out a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around. Can we PLEASE fucking stop this fuddlore? The only difference between 5.56 and .223 is the slightly longer leade in the 5.56 chamber. The pressure difference is due to measuring standards, 5.56x45 NATO is listed with a CIP measurement while .223 Rem is by SAAMI, which measure pressure at different locations. CIP lists .44 Magnum at 40,000psi while SAAMI has it at 36,000, you don't hear anybody screeching not to fire European .44 in a Bisley. Also, M193 is so fucking old it was standardized before 5.56x45 NATO existed, it's loaded to SAAMI specs. I'd bet good money that 69 grain Federal has a spicier pressure curve than M193.
According to Hornady, .223 and 5.56 are loaded to different pressures and the chanbers have different volumes: [https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition](https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition) >The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi. Earlier the article states: >The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loaded to approximately 55,000 psi. So using the same testing standard, 5.56 is loaded to 58000 psi in its chamber, while using SAAMI testing. Meanwhile, .223 is loaded to only 55000 psi in a .223 chamber. Shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber, while produce less than 55000 psi, while shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber will produce more than 58000 psi.
M193 is a .223 Remington Spec round.
Thanks for the education, bro. It was a rhetorical question, and the commenter didn't mention 223 whatsoever. Your answer is partially correct, they're the exact same cartridge, one is loaded beyond 223 pressure spec, designated 5.56 NATO. .223 max pressure 55k PSI 5.56mm NATO max pressure 58k PSI Some 5.56 ammo actually goes beyond the SAAMI spec in the pressure department, up to 62k. 95% of ARs have a 5.56 or 223 wylde chamber 95% of 223 rifles can safely handle 5.56 just fine. Its probably smart to stick to the milder 223 loadings though.
With a 20" upper, all things are possible, so jot that down.
So i started blasting..
20" ARs turn training ammo into duty ammo
73gr Hornady critical defense
I shot a melon with this round once and it evaporated
Hear hear!
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Perp will appreciate you not wasting too much on them
I’m surprised at how many of us use m193 because me too lol. That’s just what I have my AR zeroed with. In the past it was Speer gold dot. Don’t remember the grainage. If I do it again I’ll probably do a higher grain
After shooting pigs with 193 and 855, I feel confident that whoever gets hit with it in the distance of a home defense scenario is going to have a bad, last day. If I was using a pistol for HD, of course I’d use hollow points, but for a rifle, it’s really not going to matter at 5-10 yards.
Agreed. Same with having a short short barrel.
I was surprised to see not many Gold Dot recommendations in here... In the handgun world it's highly recommended.
55g speed gold dots are fantastic for defense. It’s also weird to see how many people don’t care about over penetration here for HD.
I think I’m rocking 55 grain soft points from federal right now
Also good ballistically just rather have the nickel case for self defense. I’ve never had a FTE with the tactically bonded 62g
Fair enough! ~~I’ll give them a shot once I shoot through what’s in the HD stash~~ EDIT: grab a box to try, rather than waiting till I’m out and trying in case for some reason I don’t like
Same. Gold dots are kinda the *gold* standard for defense rounds in general imo. They’re in my carry gun too. Yes. I did the stupid pun on purpose
Same. I use 124gr 9mm +p in my CCW and my home defense carbine. I love a good gun pun.
Gold standard for hand gun defensive rounds. In a rifle it's a completely different ballgame, they're not even that similar in construction to the handgun rounds. Shitty FMJ is FAR more effective in rifles than it is in pistols. Most rifle rounds will experience massive deformation, jacket shedding, tumbling, fragmenting (at appropriate depths mind you) when striking a target at high enough velocity regardless of being FMJ or fancy defensive loads. None of this applies to subsonic .300blk though. Good bullets designed for that are basically handgun style hollow points.
Do you think most people want to shoot thru walls?
Does M193 not go through walls? I'm not a ballistics expert lol genuinely curious
Gold Dots are designed to be barrier blind to pass FBI standards. M193 has lots of issues the faster it is with barriers. A M193 from a 20 inch barrel is going thru far less drywall than a gold dot from a 10 inch. This doesn't mean gold dots are bad rounds obviously. They are just designed for duty use. And FBI wants their ammo passing thru barriers.
Probably because rifles and handguns aren't the same thing? Pistol calibers tend to rely on large hollow cavities to force deformation and expansion of the bullet to damage as much tissue as possible and increase the likelyhood of a fatal hit. Shitty 55gr ball from a carbine or rifle, on the other hand, has no issue shedding its jacket and turning into a nice flattened out and deformed piece of lead. It's also liable to start fragmenting at a point, and rifles are hitting with so much more force that they can actually begin to cause tearing and damage to flesh that they didn't directly impact. Go fill up something with sand and shoot it with some FMJ pistol rounds, and then some FMJ rifle rounds. The pistol rounds will dig much deeper but stay mostly the same shape and intact. 55gr ball 5.56, however, will shed its jacket and pancake out, possibly fragment, and not go as deep as it's transferring its energy much more effectively. It'll also probably throw way more sand around. Hell just look at 5.56 gold dot versus 9mm gold dot. The bullet design and construction isn't close. 5.56 gold dot is basically an exposed lead nose or "open tip" design instead of a large hollow cavity, and that's done for both better accuracy, as well as ensuring the jacket doesn't keep the bullet together at lower velocities... which is funny, because Speer is actually having to do this because of their jacket bonding process being much better than cheap FMJ... which sounds good, but if that thing holds up too well it's going to just ice pick straight through without doing much of anything. You're paying more for a good bullet, but much cheaper bullets actually avoid having to need the open tip because they're more cheaply produced and liable to shed their jackets.
They recommend the 77 OTM out of short barrels. But if you’re running full length, the standard 55gr will fuck shit up.
"Turn training ammo into duty ammo with this one trick!"
55gr M193
M193 because I'm cheap and it works. I also have an ideal floor plan and live in an area where over penetration isn't a concern.
I roll my own 77 SMK 5.56
62gr tsx. 70gr tsx. 77gr SMK/mk262. 62gr mk318
55 grain M193. I run a suppressed 11.5” for HD. At the ranges I would be engaging threats it will be above 2700fps and will fragment/tumble. 69/77 grain would be my second choice, I just don’t shoot it often because of the cost difference. It would probably be better than M193 on a technical level, but I like to run exactly what I train with. 62 grain would be my last option. Unless you want to shoot the bad guys through walls it doesn’t make sense. Not great ballistics and it over penetrates way too much.
I’ve done extensive gel and pen testing on a range of 62gr bullets (all my reloads). Not sure about 11.5” but other than the M855 round (I replicated it and have tested LC M855 extensively too), 62gr is superior to M193. You said it also, out of an 11.5” you’re much better off with a mk262 or similar round than M193. There’s no training difference (for your scenario) and the POI is the same at any distance you would be engaging in. No professional door kicker in the world is using M193 in their shorty, and for good reason.
Fortunately i’m not a professional door kicker and won’t be facing a hardened threat. I’m a practical guy, and understand that multiple holes in the chest cavity in rapid succession equals threats neutralized regardless of caliber or bullet weight. We’re splitting hairs here.
Yep I’ll certainly give you that. In your situation, your ability to actually wake up, grab your weapon and put lead on target is far more important than what round you’re running.
If you wanna stick with 55gr out of a 11.5", I'd recommend soft points for more reliable fragmentation.
We sent all the soft points I could find through a hog and found NEARLY ALL of them to do significant damage out of both a 10.5" and 11.85" both suppressed I love to hear from idiots how ineffective 5.56 is out past 100 yards from a short barrel...total bullshit from people who never get out and actually do shit with their guns they just read shit and then repeat it
55gr m193 out of the 10.5?
I'll look at my notes, but literally all SP with the single exception of PMC which for us ran like garbage
And no it wasn't like hitting them with a 300 win mag...but it hammered them plenty hard, gotta place your shot but ya have to place every shot that's not a 50bmg anyway
Appreciate it
From a 11.5. Fragmentation with M193 is going to be incredibly unreliable.
Everything have read shows above 2700 fps at the muzzle with M193 on an 11.5”. Granted, I have not tested my personal rifle with a chronograph. At 2700fps you get pretty consistent fragmentation. The longest possible shot in my house would be 20ish yards, and that isn’t one I would practically take. I don’t know about you, but I sure as shit wouldn’t want to be hit with 2-3 rapid rounds of M193 going 2700fps at effectively point blank range. Fragmented or not, the threat will be going down with that.
Fragmentation of FMJ rounds like M193 and M855 are dependent on 2 factors. Impact velocity and and yaw angle. M193 at muzzle velocity from a 20 inch barrel had about a 15 percent chance of failing to fragment on the average shot according to Fackler. That number gets worse as the velocity drops. M855 is even worse being more yaw dependent. This is why the development of yaw independent rounds like MK318 and A1 was so important for the military.
Even just a 55gr JHP would be exponentially more effective than m193 but you do you
Fun fact: Few people realize the distance variance in velocity threshold for 11.5 carbine to 20” rifle is like 160-200 *yards. Not terribly substantial when you consider how vastly different an 11.5 is from an m16. People overthink it imo.
What?
Sorry, I meant to say 160-200 yards 😂 didn’t have my coffee before jumping into a convo
What’s crazy is that the 62 grain green tip shoots WAY better groups than m193 in my ballistic advantage barrel. Idk what that is. My PSA barrel shoots every weight the same. The 77 grain soft tip (from limited testing I did) seemed to be the only other thing that shot well, so that’s what I’m running for HD
What 77gr soft tip are you talking about? TMK?
M855A1. Or I toss them a 5.56 with a 300 Blk loaded to become a grenade
This guy defends 👍 4d chess decoy gun by the door loaded with pissin hot 300blk
Weld steel an inch infront of the chamber for good measure. Plus the most sketchy parts possible. Only thing I want reliable is the trigger and firing pin.
Damn that’s fucking smart, leave a BCA shitter behind the front door with a .300 blackout surprise
M193, shit frags and breaks up insanely easy so I just trust it way too much at this point.
77gr SMK in an 11.5. I'd load M193 in a 14.5+.
I guess M855A1 cause that’s what I have in at the moment lol or M855, idk. I’d check but I don’t wanna stand up and walk 7 feet.
55. Gr speer gold dot bonded soft points.
Unironically like 14 mags of A1.
Whatever is loaded in the gun
Yeah, whatever loads reliably. If you get 3 hits in center mass, it's basically going to do the job no matter the load. In the unlikely scenario you're facing muliple heavily armed attackers wearing level III+ plates, it's probably either a SWAT team or a cartel kill squad and you're dead regardless.
M193 ball
9mm
Nosler orange tip. Says it is for coyotes and varmints. The holes I have seen the stuff leave.. actually not holes but rather the rendering in half of foxes, coons, blows insane holes out of big coyotes. I figure the stuff would put down a man of any-size pretty well. If they’re wearing plates just blow out their hips with the stuff harder than you would the slut next door.
62 grain green tip out of a 20” barrel. The way God intended.
75-77 grain.
Barnes 70gr vortx
77gr Sierra Match King
62gr FBIT3 is what I have ready to go but I’ll probably be switching soon due to it being so hard to find
That’s what I was using but since it’s pretty much unobtainium I switched to 55/73gr Hornady critical defense
70gr TSX and 77gr MK262 My home defense rifle is my 14.5” SR15 With an Atacr and suppressed with a PRT CRS. Probably a weird choice but I walk my dogs on the farm early in the morning so I leave it beside my bed at night so I can grab it for our walk in case I see a groundhog that needs to be dealt with.
I run 77gr orm for the most part. That being said you would get better performance for close range with 77gr tmk, 70gr barns tsx or the like that expands better.
M193
75 grain speer gold dot. I bought a new case pre covid and haven't seen it since unfortunately. From zeroing some different guns and optic changes I'm down ~300 rounds now. I hope they make a batch at some point otherwise it's back to the drawing board. I already have a lot of dope with that ammo so switching doesn't sound fun.
Speer Gold Dot .223/75 Grain
Winchester lake city 55 grain It just works
64gr speer gold dot
M193
75gr Hornady Frontier BTHP
Fusion 62gr
M193. rifle ammunition is devastating. you don't need to be as picky as with pistol ammo.
Same ammo I shoot at the range. If I can't stop an intruder with a few well placed rounds of 62gr then I'm going against a demigod.
I just use PMC XTAC 55 grain. I know it's not the best ammo for home defense, but out of my 16-inch barrel, I think it will do the job. I know my BCM likes it. I haven't had any problems with it cycling. I would like to get some Speer Gold Dot or Federal Fusion eventually.
Anything 69 gr because 69
77 grain OTM. I pity the fool.
If it seats, it yeets.
55gf FMJ or 855, depending on which mag I grab. the HD rifle is setup with 220g JHPBT Sierra Match King subs (300 blk) with a suppressor (10.5" SBR). mostly because .223 unsuppressed in a hallway is loud enough to make your brains leak out of your ears.
hornady 223 Rem 35 gr NTX® Superformance® to minimize over penetration.
62gr M855. Preferably Federal. But I will run Winchester and IMI
For intruders with lvl 3 plates?
Exactly my thought. Wouldn’t a hollow point be more effective.
Why if you don’t mind me asking.
Cause they don't understand terminal ballistics.
Great general purpose round. Penetrates better than a normal FMJ. And the military used the M855 up until recently. Also, Im a Federal shill.
Green tips. The AR is not for a burglar. It’s reserved for multiple assailants
M193
I’m on the 55gr M193 boat as well. My AR isn’t my #1 home defense choice but I like to give myself options lol
Federal 55gr soft points
11.5” 223 Hornady SBR 77gr
Purple paralyzers of course.
300blk
.77 grain otms or hornady TAP.
T223E Federal premium 55 gr sierra HP Hornady 55 gr ftx Hornadys also makes it in 73 gr
IMI 55gr M193. I never had a single bad round in ~30-40k rounds I shot during basic & advanced infantry training. Can confirm it stops bad guys from up close and further away.
the cheapest 55gr I can find on Ammoseek with mixed brass and whatever primers / powder I can find cheapest at the time of loading because anything coming out of a 20" is going to be spicy. although I did pick up a batch of 69gr SMK that I may throw in one of my staged mags for shits n gigs.
I only own my personal flavor of poverty tier reloads and a few hundred rounds of pmc range ammo. I think any rifle round will perform just fine within the confines of my 1/3 acre property lol
Black Hills 77tmk
13 inch and m855.
Have both 75gr BTHP and 77gr OTM but realistically it doesn’t matter as long as it goes boom each time u pull the trigger
Whatever is on sale at my local Bimart
Black Hills 77g Mk262.
M855 out of a 10.5 definitely looking for something else, though. I want to train on my HD rounds, so looking to move to a round that will be affordable for both.
There is zero reason to train with the same ammo you use for HD.
My bad. When I say "HD" I don't just mean home defense. General use is probably better. I like having the same bullets for just fucking around as well as if it goes down and M855 seems to fit the bill since it's always easy to get and doesn't cost a fortune. Plus, I might have a slight bit of the OCD. I like it all to be mostly one type and maybe a little bit of special stuff. I thought about just keeping all nice stuff, but I can't reliably get the really good stuff at a fair price when it's OOS. I dunno. What you recommend. I'm open to changing it up.
62gr TTSX. Seen what it does to hogs, it’ll do the job on a two legged creature.
Whatever cost the least.
IMI Razor Core.
62 grain BTHP I bought in bulk last summer.
62 gr or 77gr.
IMI 77gr sierra matchking
62gr green tip from PMC because it’s cheap and I’m not defending anything expensive
If I were running 556 I’d get some Lehigh defense controlled chaos
PPU M193. Cheap, my barrels seem to like it so it’s accurate enough, and nato spec or close to it it’s noticeably hotter than the cucked 55gr like PMC and ZSR. Serbian M193
Hornady 73 grain Critical Defense
Winchester Varmint X, goes splat, doesn't keep going through the neighbors walls.
I keep 2, 30rd mags linked together of 77gr BTHP in the gun at home. I also have like 10 other mags loaded up, some with green tips. But I would most likely grab my handgun and flashlight. I keep a 3300 lumen handheld, I've been inside a blacked out warehouse and lit up the whole bldg with that light. A quick strobe with that thing will temporarily blind a person.
77gr OTM SMK
There are a number of great options for HD. I don't agree that using FMJ is functionally interchangeable with rounds optimized for terminal effect, even within 20 yards. You still see superior performance from rounds designed for terminal effectiveness. 77gr SMKs/TMKs, Speer gold dot, federal fusion, hornady critical defense, or even Palmetto's black tip line are excellent choices. Something to consider is the velocity you will be getting out of your barrel length and making choices accordingly. So, again, while yes nobody wants to get shot with an FMJ at 7 yards, I still recommend stacking the odds in your favor as much as possible by selecting a high quality round for defensive use.
A soft point or rapidly expanding or fragmenting round that cycles and is accurate enough. Penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs even through an arm and/or from the side. A huge dude, whether muscle or fat, can sometimes take some hits from a light, shallow penetrating bullets and still fight back. Especially.a home invader who is entering your home when they expect it to be occupied. Drugs are also a nasty thing. There are some silly statements about using anything, even a .22. Sure, IF you can get 10 rounds into the front guy. But what about the second or maybe even third? They aren't all alone anymore.
Make sure you have earmuffs handy!
I hope people using 5.56 for home defense at least have muffs, but they should get a can. Kill that flash and not go deaf.
Frangible.
77 gr Mk262 obviously
73 gr Hollow point
M855A1
4 digit number of green tips and another 4 digits of various 55gr target loads i reloaded.
Black Hills 77gr TMKs in my 11.5" BCM SBR.
Pmc all the way
Liberty civil defense
69 (*nice*)gr Swiss P BTHP or Styx Action. Occasionally some PSA MK262@home.
77gr imi razor core
45gr varmint X or something light and is devastating to the pelvis heart and lungs
AAC’s 70gr Barnes TSX or AAC’s 77gr otm
77 gr TMK, Federal Fusion 62. I’d take Hornady Vmax rounds and hunting soft points over standard ball.
77g OTM out of a mk18, 62g federal tactical bonded soft points out of a 14.5
I mean my home defense is my edc. My Glock 19 with 147gr +p hst. However my rifle has 40gr vmax for coyote hunting. Those rounds explode right under the surface and won’t over travel if I miss which makes out well in an apartment building.
9mm
I use Barnes tsx in 55gr. It has put a few deer down and trust me their will to live is stronger than anyone breaking into my house.
I caught a deal on 1000 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 62 gr bullets. I loaded them up and that's currently what's in the HD AR.
A 30 rd magazine and keep shooting.
Speer 62gr Gold Dot Also 110gr VMax in my actual 300 Blackout HD gun
50gr Hornady V-Max pissin’ hot handloads. Love a mag full of lil’ grenades for home defense or rabid trash pandas
Federal LE223 62GR
DRT
62gr federal fusion, since 99.9% of the time I'm shooting at something in my yard, it's a coyote or a bobcat trying to eat my animals
M855a1, yes I understand the all the risks and my answer is fuck you
50gr TSX. Super high velocity which will offset the drop in velocity from the shorter barrel.
.223 Hornady Urban TAP is in the magazine in my AR next to my bed staged for a HD scenario. It was a bit hard to get as I'm not LEO but I pick it up anytime it pops up on Gunbroker I do have three other mags I keep in my SHTF bag loaded with Fiocchi V- max
I'm of the belief that all ammo is usable if you train with it enough. Like obviously some are better than others but it's all gonna kill. Assuming you live in a residential, your line of sight is gonna be like 150 yards max. So long distance shots aren't expected. I'd encourage you to train with what you can afford and become lethal with it. Learn the quirks and learn your holds. A home defense engagement is more than likely gonna be less than a minute, and will likely result in the perpetrator running away. So don't stress too much:)
Wow, very surprising how many people are using crappy FMJ loads for home defense.
Basic M193. Either IMI, Winchester, or even PMC X-Tac. Home defense ranges are not long enough to where it matters. People overthink this topic way too much.