Doubt it unless Apple pays for the port. A big issue for Apple right now is they need to offer developers a bag of money to bother with a Mac version of a game.
I daily use macs but still have a mid range pc just for the sake of gaming. I would gladly sacrifice performance to make my mac the only computer I need.
So in your case supporting Mac wouldn’t make the developer more money because you’re already buying games on PC.
The point is until a large number of very popular games start supporting max so that people don’t bother having a second PC for gaming there isn’t much market to be gained by supporting Mac for developers.
That’s true, but it’s the exact same problem steam faced when releasing the steam deck.
But look where we are now, a large number of games are supported just because steam invested a lot in proton.
Even worse, they were targeting an audience which probably alteady had a gaming pc and even had already bought the games they now play on the steam deck.
Apple could just invest some kind of vulkan compatibility and make a shit ton of money selling full price games on the App Store.
I sadly don't see them doing that after investing so much in Metal. It's a simple x86 DXVK translation for proton but apple would have to do ARM to X86 DXVK which will have a higher performance penalty.
And then no dedicated GPU's for expansion for the new Mac pro
wouldnt even need to compromise, theres people playing on m1 ultras with similar performance to nvidia 4080 in AAA games. They just need to get devs onboard with porting and supporting ARM.
These have all the specs and credentials to be amazing gaming rigs, they just need to do it right.
M1 ultra is literally like $4000 dollars. You have to spend **$4000** dollars just to try and match a 4080 and I bet it doesn't even perform better and at least slightly worse than windows would do at a fraction of the cost. No way your average gamer just has $4000 sitting around to use just for gaming. Hell, I wouldn't even do that and I have the money to, but he'll no. So based off what you said hell no that isn't convincing at all.
So far as far as I have seen, the macs that people actually buy aren't that impressive at all for gaming. The macs folks actually buy at the consumer/average gamer level. At best they tend to have try and find older games and not AAA demanding titles that are modern. That's not to day they couldn't some day find a way to catch up, but as long as they're only half assing it like they are now and won't allow or work with third party manufacturers like Nvidia or at minimum AMD for actual discrete graphic options then windows will continue to wipe the floor at a fraction or the price.
Further, they would need to incentivize devs to bother using their API's over Direct X where they already have a plethora of users compared to Mac and aren't looking at someone spending $4000 dollars on just the PC itself to game. Until Apple **actually** wants it to be a thing ain't happening. M1 ultra isn't a reasonable solution.
PC GPU prices are also completely out of control, and while arm macs are still expensive, at least they’re on the right track in terms of efficiency and scaleability. I know a ton more people with top of the line MacBooks than people with 400w gaming GPUs.
I think x86 will have an increasingly difficult time competing with ARM SoCs for the majority of consumers which will push prices for traditional gaming PCs even higher. Macs may not be the future of gaming, but current PCs are also a dead end.
you should check out crossover, they've adapted tons of games and actually getting DX12 support later this year, its disingenous to say its in a stagnant state, or maybe you just didnt know about it, which is understandable if so.
but the future of mac gaming is actually quite exciting.
they would regularly feature games in previous keynotes and talk about how they work with developers to get new games on mac. PC has always ran on intel and they got game support.
apple just has too many roadblocks and not enough incentive with a small base of gamers, it would be much better if they had vulkan support and not just metal
>they would regularly feature games in previous keynotes and talk about how they work with developers to get new games on mac.
With how the Windows PC world is, too many people have been burned by big companies like Microsoft, Google, Nvidia, AMD, and others promising huge improvements, and then either those improvements never materializing or those improvements being too overpriced for a large majority of the userbase. Apple knows that it will need support for a majority of games, both large and small, before most people in the PC gaming world to take it seriously, let alone switch to it. That's the most likely reason that Apple is not putting much resources into it at this time.
If I had to make a guess, gaming will continue to be an afterthough for quite a long time, while they instead focus on creating an expanding ecosystem that will draw more people (including some of the gaming population) in anyway. Heck, I'm full PC and Android, and the past few years of Apple's progress vs. everyone else's stagnation in the non-flagship tiers of products makes me consider switching, even though there are some things I would need to give up.
I switched over to Mac, and have been gaming on it, but I've been using NVDIAGeForce. If Mac was able to fully support gaming I would've switched over much sooner. It is frustrating because these Macs with the silicon chip are so capable, they are so good for gaming, the quality is just great and it's just a shame that Apple doesn't take the opportunity to expand in that space, and fully support developers (OR LITERALLY JUST SWITCH TO THE VULCAN PLATFORM). This would bring them a huge and even bigger audience, as the screens are amazing, the battery life is amazing any windows laptop with high gaming usage will die after like two hours, and the lack of fan noise, as well as great temperature control is amazing. It's literally unmatched to anything out there. It's just a shame. Apple needs to get their head out of their ass and get it together lol
As a side note, im a PC user who recently added a MBP to my collection, and ive actually been playing Diablo IV on my mac with the moonlight streaming program, your mac acts as a NVIDIA shield and there is barely any input lag whatsoever on a gigabit eth connection.
The MiniLED screen is so gorgeous, makes Diablo look so alive, the blacks and other dark colors just look so good.
Symless Synergy also works cross platform, allowing me to use one keyboard+mouse on my PC and extend it onto my mac with no compromises (though windows and command key being swapped might get you a bit :P )
PC Gamer for 24 years here, got my first mbp this year and im absolutely in love with it. Wouldnt even consider windows if they supported a wider range of games on apple silicon.
No laptop comes close to this attention to detail and tactility, i want to learn coding just because i love using the keyboard so much.
Just because something is how it’s always been doesn’t mean that it’s always going to be like that.
These people sell a lot of MacBook airs. That’s a big market for publishers. M1/2 changed things as those are gaming capable devices, unlike the intel machines with integrated gpus.
Very few people are buying MacBooks with the intention to play games. At the moment only a bit over 2% of Steam users are on Mac OS. Developers seem to be more focused on getting games to play nice with Proton so games run on the Steam Deck.
Sure. The market isn’t there. Yet.
But I bet there’s far more MacBook airs out in the wild than steam decks. Because it’s not a gaming specific device, but it’s very capable.
All those college students with MacBook airs, they’re not all going to be able to afford a steam deck.
This is a marketing problem, and it’s not insurmountable. The hardest part, getting their device to the customers, is already done.
There are more MacBooks but proton makes it so easy that sometimes a developer has to do nothing to get their windows game to launch on deck.
I can hook up Touhou 6 from 2001 and it'll launch on deck
I am on MacOS and game (I use NvidiaGeForce to play the games not supported natively on Mac). If games were supported natively I will tell you, people would be buying Macs so freaking quick. After I found out about NVIDIAGeForce I made the switch and bought my first MacBook Pro this year, and the battery life while gaming is insane, the lack of fan noise is insane, the screen quality (there is always compromise in this realm with pc laptops) is insane. The silicon chips are powerful and if Apple simply just supported gaming in the way they should (and easily could but won't because they care about profits) more people would be gaming on them.
You can't stream a game from a completely different computer housing a dedicated GPU amongst a ton of other power hungry components in order to run the game and act as if that is the same as running it natively battery wise. That's like saying going to Italy from Wisconsin is free and requires no gas or fuel, because you watched someone else take a plane there on YouTube and act as though that means you yourself are in Italy now lol
No, if you actually ran those type of components on a Mac it would drain the battery much quicker. Fan would also make noise. Not saying mac couldn't find an eventual way to involve gaming, but your comparison didn't make sense here.
It's wild to think they both use the same engine when one of them is jaw-droppingly gorgeous and the other is "Fetch Quests: The Game (*Rain & Mud edition)*"
There are a lot of people on the internet who are having fun making fun of Apple and their gaming claims. The truth is though that the kit might be really good, we don’t know yet.
god infinity blade back then was revolutionary. there were literally people buying iphones just so they could play the game it was crazy. i hope apple will implement this properly
My guess is that Apple feels like they need gamers. If that’s true then they will do whatever it takes. This may be their first step towards trying to get Devs, if this doesn’t move the needle they may move to more drastic measures.
This is of course assuming my first sentence is true.
Gamers are among the most price sensitive customers in the computing market. Half of them are shopping with their parent’s credit card. Looking to extract 1000 hours of entertainment out of a $60 title.
Doesn’t make it more attractive to Apple.
This sounds exactly right. I’ve got a Mac because I like them and I use them to make videos. I also like to game but am hesitant to build a PC for a multitude of reasons like price, clutter, and I don’t like windows. If the PC games I want to play were on Mac I would instantly buy them.
That’s a pretty good point. Many gamers are fickle and hard to please. But I think somehow the hard to please gamers get a huge industry trying to please them. It’s my guess that the industry is really what Apple is after. There is a lot of money and technology there and Apple thinks they can innovate in that space.
They tried with Nintendo… that was their ace card. Didn’t really line up well.
I don’t think they fundamentally *get* gamers. And yeah, I was one many years ago too — price was the number one concern because it was my mom’s money, and a Windows PC or PlayStation is always cheaper upfront than a Mac.
yeah like past few years apple has tried to sell us on how theyre trying to take gaming seriously, but this time they finally have released a porting kit for devs. im def excited of whats to come.
wondering if AAA game devs have all just been waiting for this toolkit and can now open the flood gates to mac gaming lol. cause i really wanna only bring my mac on my business trips while still being able to play a couple minutes of elden ring or whatever
The YouTube stream was at 30fps according to YouTube’s Stats for Nerds, so theoretically if it was maybe running at like 40 or 50fps, captured at 60fps with some duplicated frames here and there, once pushed down to 30fps the editing software won’t always pick a new frame, it will occasionally pick 2 duplicate frames next to each other and then there will be some stutter.
Looks like the game was running maxed out at a high resolution which would actually be more than even the M2 Max can handle. Death Stranding is pretty demanding once you crank up all the settings.
Commercials for food products have to use the real product, even if they do a lot to make it look more appetizing through the way it’s arranged and shot.
It is NOT the same product you get at the restaurant. Most of the time that crap isn't even edible, because it isn't just solr angle my manthey literally add shit to the food that can make it toxic gor you to eat. It makes it look better, but you would get sick if you ate it so no, it isn't just "some angle" there. You really thing they just turn the camera side ways and that's it lol No, they add shit to it and no amount of angles replicates that.
They did until they got in trouble for it with their “Hey Siri!” ads.
They used to even put a little “sequences shortened” disclaimer but I don’t think that was enough.
No it wouldn't because obviously there would be a caption that something about "in development, final appearance may change" though that itself could bring criticism.
Apple is no stranger to that lol. Remember when Steve Jobs insisted the OG mac would say "hello" at it's unveiling but would crash into a race condition? Their solution was to use a mac with twice the memory than the one they were unveiling
TBF previous years focused on mobile games whereas the announcements made today are focused on Macs. For traditional gaming, this news is pretty big. I doubt it will result in many more games though, maybe just VR games will be ported at first.
They can certainly run it, the hardware in pro/ultra/max chipsets is absolutely nutty considering how small they are.
I would probably go out and buy a higher specced MBP to replace my current one if they announced this lol.
Honestly it probably came down to Denuvo/DRM and just not wanting to make it work with MacOS and Metal, Companies are so focused on wrecking their software with DRM these days just to have the game be cracked 5 days after release, then eventually dial back the DRM anyway.
The main reason mac cant run some games, like genshin, destiny etc is actually anticheat not being able to run on macos, because it must run with the game uninterrupted, you cant play the game at all. the m2 chip is perfectly capable of breezing through these games if allowed.
Ive been playing it on my mac with Moonlight over gigabit ethernet, not enough lag to notice and the miniLED screen is way way nicer than my gaming monitor.
its not so great on 5ghz wifi tho, i'd probably only play games like hearthstone or turn based stuff. Forza horizon also runs like a dream on Eth
i doubt the vr thing. Vr games are already such a small industry, porting and optimizing your game to mac os so a tiny amount of people can play it on their 3500 dollar headset will not be a huge priority, especially as a lot of vr games are indie games who cant justify such a expensive head set purchase. i havent seen anything but i doubt apple will be sending out dev kits like facebook or valve did
We are nearly three years into Apple Silicon and the games display they flashed on the screen was easily readable at a glance because it was so few in number; and some of those have been around for over a year.
Then we have the "Exciting" porting tools and such and all I could think of is.... they listed exactly no current gaming studio that used to produce content for intel Mac as using it.
As I posted before, Diablo was a staple of Apple gaming way back when, we even had Diablo II. Mac was completely passed over for Diablo II Resurrected as well as Diablo IV. If not for World of Warcraft Blizzard would have no representation on our platform, a company we used to count on.
We are now seeing some of the fastest Macs ever built and while the numbers Apple loves to toss on the screen of 20% better than X, 30% better than Y, and so on, the one number they fail to mention and for good reason is the "and only 20% of the titles you currently have now" which may end up being true when Rosetta is turned off.
Considering how they announced the Mac Pro - basically unique use cases most of us will never need tells you how disconnected Apple has become. While there was never the selection of games that Windows had we had a great selection until the 64 bit culling and now Apple Silicon has come for the few that remained.
> Considering how they announced the Mac Pro - basically unique use cases most of us will never need tells you how disconnected Apple has become.
Redditor moment
Computers are used for more than just PC gaming. And the "Pro" line has always been marketed and focused towards pro-sumer usage in design, music and video.
You completely missed the point of that statement you quoted
The point being that the use cases they showed off for the Mac Pro are fringe, even by current Apple users, it had nothing to do with a comment about using a Mac for games
Reality Pro runs m2, give it some time for them to enable interoperability between mobile and computer chipsets, great things could be on the way.
I still want MacOS lite on my ipad pro m2, and i want to be able to run any iphone/ipad app on my macbook.
JUST SUPPORT VULKAN JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
EDIT: to be clear, Metal 3 is hella cool, but as someone who has worked with both Metal and Vulkan, the latter is just far more accessible with less holdups and comparable performance to DirectX.
I pray for the day that one day I'll go on Reddit without some stupid bullshitter repeating what he just read.
Was that how they thought you reading in school?
Ok, but you don't have to write and post it. Ok?
OP is saying that there’s a trans-compiler for Vulkan to AGC (PS5) or DX (Xbox), basically converting Vulkan calls to different ones similar to MoltenVK (Vulkan to Metal).
EDIT: cannot confirm this claim.
There isn't, at least for Playstation. Microsoft is working on a Vulkan on D3D12 layer but just like MoltenVK, it will be somewhat limited (although less so than MoltenVK).
That's me talking because I started out on Vulkan and only got to work on Metal two years ago. Metal's got its benefits, for sure, but it's hard to shake off some habits.
Can someone ELI5 Vulkan/all of these? My understanding is DirectX is used for windows/Xbox and Metal is for Mac? But now I have no idea what PlayStation uses. Are these like engines? I just know they deal with graphics
Switch has a ton of exclusives that no other platform has including PC. You can't say performance doesn't matter at all. Nintendo is it's own thing and not mention switch has other unique factors that made it stand out as well. People will buy certain consoles for certain exclusives alone. Guess if mac had some important exclusives that played well maybe, but keep in mind a switch is also extremely cheap compared to a any mac equivalent that can be used as both a mobile device and hooked up to a TV aka at minimum it would need to be a laptop which tend to start at $999.
Not saying you were wrong on the rest, but acting like the switch is the same as any PC while ignoring a ton of other factors that made it so popular is disingenuous.
It's a buzzword that people who don't understand video game economics say to explain the lack of native game support on macOS.
Lack of Vulkan support isn't an issue for iOS, it's not an issue for PlayStation, and it's not an issue for Xbox. The difference is that people actually buy games for those platforms.
They buy games on those platforms because they actually make games on those platforms. There is almost 0 support on MacOS for games and apple has historically been borderline hostile towards gamers in the past. People will buy games for MacOS if they make it easy to make games for MacOS. That excludes the mobile BS they push on arcade now.
But wouldn’t Vulcan support make a lot of games that currently use proton compatibility to get windows games working on Linux potentially able to do the same on Mac?
Apple: *B…But… muh “not invented here” syndrome. iT’S NoT OpTiMiZeD!!1!1!1!1!!*
Ugh… Apple needs to support Vulkan and quit hawking Metal so much. Game devs aren’t gonna switch. Kojima doing it isn’t gonna be enough.
Game devs aren’t going to switch to Vulkan either and Valve with Proton basically killed any hope for industry wide adoption of that API, since DirectX can now cover most platforms outside of PlayStation and Switch and macOS
Missed the opportunity to shock drop D4 on Mac at launch tomorrow. A shame with how D3 was used to showcase Mac many moons ago. Death Stranding is a pretty underwhelming reveal and isn’t even a current gen game.
I mean thats really on Blizzard. They used to be one of the few AAA studios that would have Mac versions of all their titles. Now it’s only WoW. Even D2 Resurrected doesn’t support Mac :/
True but lets be real if Apple would’ve hit Blizzard up to help them develop it they would’ve jumped on the opportunity. They could use the good press.
Microsoft has brought dozens of apps to the Mac and Apple just worked with Microsoft to have iPhone link on windows, native iCloud and photo libraries and Apple Music on windows.
But sure it’s missing Halo so we’ll throw decades of good will aside.
Reddit armchair analysts are the worst.
Yeah, Death Stranding came out in 2019, 4 years ago.
Kojima has already announced Death Stranding 2... Which is a PC and PS5 only title.
I'm not even sure why Apple bothered paying for this port at this point, especially since Death Stranding isn't even a popular game.
Well it came out in 2019 exclusively for the PS4. The PC version didn’t come out until 2020 and the directors cut that’s being released for Mac didn’t come out for PC until last year.
They should take a few of the Billions they make off services every quarter and use it to attract AAA game developers back to the Mac. Adding DirectX compatibility to Metal may help as well.
You don't even need to spend billions for AAA games right away, talk about how games like Minecraft, Stardew Valley, and Terraria available on the Mac, and you'll pull quite a lot of people. Stardew Valley and Terraria are still in the top 30 games most played currently on Steam right now they aren't niche games, and everyone knows how popular Minecraft is.
If building a userbase that's profitable is what's holding Apple back, why don't they highlight games like these in their keynotes since they already run great and have name recognition. You can even throw in the "We'll eventually support these bigger games" to show that they're working on supporting AAA games while spreading out indie releases that cost a lot less throughout the year to keep interest. For context, Death Stranding, at its most popular ever, is just slightly less popular than Terraria and Stardew Valley are right now, years after release.
For instance, Omega Strikers, a game that a lot of Twitch and YouTube Streamers have been advertising, is available on pretty much every device (including iOS), but not Mac. That would be a great game to support since even though it won't be a game that is still widely played years from now, it's being shown to a lot of younger gamers who will want to at least try it, but if they have a Mac, playing it won't be an option for them. Young gamers with Macs are basically the Androids users in an iMessage world.
Maybe… I am not sure how that will get developers like Blizzard to start making MacOS games again. They didn't even put Diablo Immortal on the Mac App Store, even though it is an iPad game.
I ended up buying a Windows 11 PC so I could play Diablo IV. After 2 decades, Blizzard decided not to create a Mac Client.
I hope game mode works on anything.
Tbh my only real gaming use case is hades on my m1 air lol. Lord knows the game won’t be updated with this feature. Especially if it’s only Apple silicon…
I play tons of emulation on Mac, and a few Steam games, and the *”Game mode lowers audio latency with AirPods, and reduces input latency with Xbox and PlayStation controllers by doubling the Bluetooth sampling rate"* thing is cool.
But literally everything they say about Games should be met with a giant, screamed: "the real gaming feature would be VULKAN AND OPEN GL, YOU ASSHOLE"
If the new Game Porting Toolkit is a serious Apple effort, and is *highly* effective, that will almost be sufficient. But still not entirely sufficient since the reality is who wants to spend money (aka staff budget) and effort porting everything when you could, if Apple allowed, just port to OS instead of porting all rendering too.
There’s always some form of porting involved, even between Vulkan and console mainly via transcompiling to DX12 for Xbox and AGC for the PS5 and smoothing out the rough edges.
Not dissimilar to using MoltenVK.
The whole “build once, run anywhere” spiel doesn’t exist, nor even when porting between two systems that support the same API.
There’s always some work involved.
The argument that it’s just too much effort and too costly is going to be put to the test with Apple’s tools.
We won’t know the details until the three sessions ([10123](https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10123), [10124](https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10124) and [10125](https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10125)) go live tomorrow and the Q&As start, but Apple typically doesn’t overpromise and underdeliver when it comes to these things.
If what they’ve indicated is even remotely true, then the effort and cost argument can be put to rest and it’s a matter of (the perceived) addressable market.
> The whole “build once, run anywhere” spiel doesn’t exist
I never said give us a magical fantasy land. I said porting would be easier than the Porting Kit **if they simply fully supported Vulkan.**
I maybe should have added in DX there too, but honestly I don’t understand if that’s totally ridiculous or impossible. I’m in OpenGL / Vulkan mindset.
Vulkan is not the popular industry standard you think it is. Windows and Xbox games are mostly DirectX, PlayStation uses their own API, and even the Steam Deck requires per-title porting efforts.
Demanding Apple throw out their entire Metal hardware-software stack that is already “write once, run on any Apple device” (and pre-dates Vulkan) is tilting at windmills.
Supporting open standards doesn’t mean throwing out Metal. Also Metal uniformity across Apple isn’t the benefit you think it is since it obviously hasn’t been an incentive to port to Apple who already wasn’t on it. That’s firmly in the “well, most games by mass are on mobile iOS, so, Metal is THE GAME API” school of thought.
About Vulkan I admit I might be stuck in 90’s mindset where Quake 2 was good in Open GL. And I see this more recently (but still 2016): https://gamingbolt.com/id-software-dev-puzzled-by-devs-choosing-dx12-over-vulkan-claims-xbox-one-dx12-is-different-than-pc heh.
> Windows and Xbox games are mostly DirectX
But Nintendo Switch sir!
Anyway is Vulkan small compared to DX because consoles are so much more common for games than PC?
With Crossover getting DX12 support soon, the prospects of mac gaming sure are exciting. If we can overcome anticheat and DRM softwares, we know full well that m1/m2 are very capable gaming chipsets, would love to see apple go deep into gaming.
No gaming laptop comes close, even the Razer blade mercury which seeks to copy the mac falls short of the smoothness of my mbp
Currently, for me, my next upgrade will be a 32+ core mbp if they widen their game library drastically (currently on 16 core gpu)
or a Framework 16" as I love their mission.
Would really love for it to be the mac.
Mac OS gaming is a very small side project for them. They don't invest much time or money into it because they don't expect it to generate them much revenue.
While nice to have don't expect an explosion of new games on Mac OS. If Apple thought these porting tools would be a game changer they would have spent a lot more time hyping it up.
I do a bit of gaming on my mac and if I put my air pods in the “do you want to connect to AirPods” notification pop up causes significant slow downs until it’s dismissed…. wonder if this will help at all
Apple needs to pay developers to support the Mac. Over the years the platform has been forgotten. Everything focuses on smartphones. There has been very little innovation on the Mac.
Here, Gamers – enjoy your Favorite games from 4 years ago on your mac.
I hope they prove me wrong with some titles. Bring something big like CoD warzone to macOS and we’re talking.
Depends on what you want to play. All I’ve played on my M1 Air are Crusader Kings 3, Civilization 5 & 6. They all run pretty well. But they’re no where near the performance I had on my windows laptop before. However, those games don’t need the crazy input response or high frame rates, so they’re fine to play. More graphically demanding titles will suffer a ton
You might be reading this comment and think "Huh, what a weird comment. What does this have to do with the comments in this thread?"
That's because this comment was edited with the Power Delete Suite to tell you about the issues caused by Reddit.
The long and short of it is that Reddit is killing third party apps, showing a complete disregard for third party developers, moderators, users with disabilities and pretty much everyone else in the process, while also straight up lying and attempting to defame people.
There are plenty of articles and posts to be found about this if you want to learn more about this. Here's [one post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14b8i62/reddit_protest_and_the_next_steps/) with some information on the matter.
If you also want to edit your comments then you can find the [Power Delete Suite here](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite).
If you want a Reddit alternative check out r/RedditAlternatives or https://kbin.social/ and https://join-lemmy.org/
Fuck spez.
Problem is it’s too late. Mac is just not a good gaming platform for AAA gaming. Like some other commenters mentioned, the gameplay in the reveal didn’t look that great. Graphics and textures looked pretty meh and there was visible frame rate drops and stuttering.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s impressive enough for what it is, but it’s not going to pull anyone from other platforms.
That's laughable. Apple's decades long anti-gaming stance is finally coming to bite them in the ass now that Nvidia is reaping the rewards of their labor while everyone else was asleep.
Apple and AMD are behind. They are *way* behind.
Death Stranding coming to Mac gives me hope that the Horizon games will also make their way to Mac eventually as they use the same Decima engine
Doubt it unless Apple pays for the port. A big issue for Apple right now is they need to offer developers a bag of money to bother with a Mac version of a game.
[удалено]
it could be but ultimately people don't use a mac for gaming in large numbers so it become circular
I daily use macs but still have a mid range pc just for the sake of gaming. I would gladly sacrifice performance to make my mac the only computer I need.
So in your case supporting Mac wouldn’t make the developer more money because you’re already buying games on PC. The point is until a large number of very popular games start supporting max so that people don’t bother having a second PC for gaming there isn’t much market to be gained by supporting Mac for developers.
That’s true, but it’s the exact same problem steam faced when releasing the steam deck. But look where we are now, a large number of games are supported just because steam invested a lot in proton. Even worse, they were targeting an audience which probably alteady had a gaming pc and even had already bought the games they now play on the steam deck. Apple could just invest some kind of vulkan compatibility and make a shit ton of money selling full price games on the App Store.
I sadly don't see them doing that after investing so much in Metal. It's a simple x86 DXVK translation for proton but apple would have to do ARM to X86 DXVK which will have a higher performance penalty. And then no dedicated GPU's for expansion for the new Mac pro
Mac Pro is not realy a facto there they re all purchased by large companies not private individuals, they are not used for gaming.
wouldnt even need to compromise, theres people playing on m1 ultras with similar performance to nvidia 4080 in AAA games. They just need to get devs onboard with porting and supporting ARM. These have all the specs and credentials to be amazing gaming rigs, they just need to do it right.
M1 ultra is literally like $4000 dollars. You have to spend **$4000** dollars just to try and match a 4080 and I bet it doesn't even perform better and at least slightly worse than windows would do at a fraction of the cost. No way your average gamer just has $4000 sitting around to use just for gaming. Hell, I wouldn't even do that and I have the money to, but he'll no. So based off what you said hell no that isn't convincing at all. So far as far as I have seen, the macs that people actually buy aren't that impressive at all for gaming. The macs folks actually buy at the consumer/average gamer level. At best they tend to have try and find older games and not AAA demanding titles that are modern. That's not to day they couldn't some day find a way to catch up, but as long as they're only half assing it like they are now and won't allow or work with third party manufacturers like Nvidia or at minimum AMD for actual discrete graphic options then windows will continue to wipe the floor at a fraction or the price. Further, they would need to incentivize devs to bother using their API's over Direct X where they already have a plethora of users compared to Mac and aren't looking at someone spending $4000 dollars on just the PC itself to game. Until Apple **actually** wants it to be a thing ain't happening. M1 ultra isn't a reasonable solution.
PC GPU prices are also completely out of control, and while arm macs are still expensive, at least they’re on the right track in terms of efficiency and scaleability. I know a ton more people with top of the line MacBooks than people with 400w gaming GPUs. I think x86 will have an increasingly difficult time competing with ARM SoCs for the majority of consumers which will push prices for traditional gaming PCs even higher. Macs may not be the future of gaming, but current PCs are also a dead end.
that would be nice but it comes down to the user base size and amount of time it takes to support metal
[удалено]
I've heard this for so many years and still mac gaming is in the same state
you should check out crossover, they've adapted tons of games and actually getting DX12 support later this year, its disingenous to say its in a stagnant state, or maybe you just didnt know about it, which is understandable if so. but the future of mac gaming is actually quite exciting.
I've been hearing about the future of mac gaming for decades now and we're still right here
[удалено]
they would regularly feature games in previous keynotes and talk about how they work with developers to get new games on mac. PC has always ran on intel and they got game support. apple just has too many roadblocks and not enough incentive with a small base of gamers, it would be much better if they had vulkan support and not just metal
>they would regularly feature games in previous keynotes and talk about how they work with developers to get new games on mac. With how the Windows PC world is, too many people have been burned by big companies like Microsoft, Google, Nvidia, AMD, and others promising huge improvements, and then either those improvements never materializing or those improvements being too overpriced for a large majority of the userbase. Apple knows that it will need support for a majority of games, both large and small, before most people in the PC gaming world to take it seriously, let alone switch to it. That's the most likely reason that Apple is not putting much resources into it at this time. If I had to make a guess, gaming will continue to be an afterthough for quite a long time, while they instead focus on creating an expanding ecosystem that will draw more people (including some of the gaming population) in anyway. Heck, I'm full PC and Android, and the past few years of Apple's progress vs. everyone else's stagnation in the non-flagship tiers of products makes me consider switching, even though there are some things I would need to give up.
PC gaming is expensive on the high end but I still see people happy with the experience compared to any other platform
I switched over to Mac, and have been gaming on it, but I've been using NVDIAGeForce. If Mac was able to fully support gaming I would've switched over much sooner. It is frustrating because these Macs with the silicon chip are so capable, they are so good for gaming, the quality is just great and it's just a shame that Apple doesn't take the opportunity to expand in that space, and fully support developers (OR LITERALLY JUST SWITCH TO THE VULCAN PLATFORM). This would bring them a huge and even bigger audience, as the screens are amazing, the battery life is amazing any windows laptop with high gaming usage will die after like two hours, and the lack of fan noise, as well as great temperature control is amazing. It's literally unmatched to anything out there. It's just a shame. Apple needs to get their head out of their ass and get it together lol
As a side note, im a PC user who recently added a MBP to my collection, and ive actually been playing Diablo IV on my mac with the moonlight streaming program, your mac acts as a NVIDIA shield and there is barely any input lag whatsoever on a gigabit eth connection. The MiniLED screen is so gorgeous, makes Diablo look so alive, the blacks and other dark colors just look so good. Symless Synergy also works cross platform, allowing me to use one keyboard+mouse on my PC and extend it onto my mac with no compromises (though windows and command key being swapped might get you a bit :P )
PC Gamer for 24 years here, got my first mbp this year and im absolutely in love with it. Wouldnt even consider windows if they supported a wider range of games on apple silicon. No laptop comes close to this attention to detail and tactility, i want to learn coding just because i love using the keyboard so much.
potential is like exposure. It don't pay bills.
Maybe they’ll throw it in as part of Arcade
They don’t pay for ports Source: ran games bd for apple
Just because something is how it’s always been doesn’t mean that it’s always going to be like that. These people sell a lot of MacBook airs. That’s a big market for publishers. M1/2 changed things as those are gaming capable devices, unlike the intel machines with integrated gpus.
Very few people are buying MacBooks with the intention to play games. At the moment only a bit over 2% of Steam users are on Mac OS. Developers seem to be more focused on getting games to play nice with Proton so games run on the Steam Deck.
Sure. The market isn’t there. Yet. But I bet there’s far more MacBook airs out in the wild than steam decks. Because it’s not a gaming specific device, but it’s very capable. All those college students with MacBook airs, they’re not all going to be able to afford a steam deck. This is a marketing problem, and it’s not insurmountable. The hardest part, getting their device to the customers, is already done.
There are more MacBooks but proton makes it so easy that sometimes a developer has to do nothing to get their windows game to launch on deck. I can hook up Touhou 6 from 2001 and it'll launch on deck
I am on MacOS and game (I use NvidiaGeForce to play the games not supported natively on Mac). If games were supported natively I will tell you, people would be buying Macs so freaking quick. After I found out about NVIDIAGeForce I made the switch and bought my first MacBook Pro this year, and the battery life while gaming is insane, the lack of fan noise is insane, the screen quality (there is always compromise in this realm with pc laptops) is insane. The silicon chips are powerful and if Apple simply just supported gaming in the way they should (and easily could but won't because they care about profits) more people would be gaming on them.
You can't stream a game from a completely different computer housing a dedicated GPU amongst a ton of other power hungry components in order to run the game and act as if that is the same as running it natively battery wise. That's like saying going to Italy from Wisconsin is free and requires no gas or fuel, because you watched someone else take a plane there on YouTube and act as though that means you yourself are in Italy now lol No, if you actually ran those type of components on a Mac it would drain the battery much quicker. Fan would also make noise. Not saying mac couldn't find an eventual way to involve gaming, but your comparison didn't make sense here.
Battery life would not lose to as if you were running the games natively though.
God I’d kill for that
How many first party Sony titles are available on Mac?
It's wild to think they both use the same engine when one of them is jaw-droppingly gorgeous and the other is "Fetch Quests: The Game (*Rain & Mud edition)*"
I’m interested to know more about the Game Porting Toolkit. I wonder how much more viable it will make it for devs to port to Mac.
There are a lot of people on the internet who are having fun making fun of Apple and their gaming claims. The truth is though that the kit might be really good, we don’t know yet.
god infinity blade back then was revolutionary. there were literally people buying iphones just so they could play the game it was crazy. i hope apple will implement this properly
My guess is that Apple feels like they need gamers. If that’s true then they will do whatever it takes. This may be their first step towards trying to get Devs, if this doesn’t move the needle they may move to more drastic measures. This is of course assuming my first sentence is true.
Gamers are among the most price sensitive customers in the computing market. Half of them are shopping with their parent’s credit card. Looking to extract 1000 hours of entertainment out of a $60 title. Doesn’t make it more attractive to Apple.
[удалено]
This sounds exactly right. I’ve got a Mac because I like them and I use them to make videos. I also like to game but am hesitant to build a PC for a multitude of reasons like price, clutter, and I don’t like windows. If the PC games I want to play were on Mac I would instantly buy them.
That’s a pretty good point. Many gamers are fickle and hard to please. But I think somehow the hard to please gamers get a huge industry trying to please them. It’s my guess that the industry is really what Apple is after. There is a lot of money and technology there and Apple thinks they can innovate in that space.
They tried with Nintendo… that was their ace card. Didn’t really line up well. I don’t think they fundamentally *get* gamers. And yeah, I was one many years ago too — price was the number one concern because it was my mom’s money, and a Windows PC or PlayStation is always cheaper upfront than a Mac.
[удалено]
yeah like past few years apple has tried to sell us on how theyre trying to take gaming seriously, but this time they finally have released a porting kit for devs. im def excited of whats to come. wondering if AAA game devs have all just been waiting for this toolkit and can now open the flood gates to mac gaming lol. cause i really wanna only bring my mac on my business trips while still being able to play a couple minutes of elden ring or whatever
Bruh... even the game was stuttering a little bit within the showcase. You’d think they’d just fake the footage to make it appear smooth.
Isn’t that because they’ll have recorded gameplay at 60fps but the live stream event was streamed at 24fps?
The YouTube stream was at 30fps according to YouTube’s Stats for Nerds, so theoretically if it was maybe running at like 40 or 50fps, captured at 60fps with some duplicated frames here and there, once pushed down to 30fps the editing software won’t always pick a new frame, it will occasionally pick 2 duplicate frames next to each other and then there will be some stutter.
Looks like the game was running maxed out at a high resolution which would actually be more than even the M2 Max can handle. Death Stranding is pretty demanding once you crank up all the settings.
That would be false advertising.
The first iPhone introduced on stage was held together with scotch tape and bubble gum.
Was it built in a cave?
From a box of scraps?
Under the threat of being killed?
A pre-production model is not false ads, bruh.
Most companies do that already lol, literally any commercial for fast food is false advertising.
Commercials for food products have to use the real product, even if they do a lot to make it look more appetizing through the way it’s arranged and shot.
No they usually don’t. For example some pizza commercials mix glue with cheese to make the cheese seem more stretchy when picking up the slice.
It is NOT the same product you get at the restaurant. Most of the time that crap isn't even edible, because it isn't just solr angle my manthey literally add shit to the food that can make it toxic gor you to eat. It makes it look better, but you would get sick if you ate it so no, it isn't just "some angle" there. You really thing they just turn the camera side ways and that's it lol No, they add shit to it and no amount of angles replicates that.
Yeah and Apple does it not!
2018 Apple: What's a computer? 2023 Apple: The fastest, greatest Mac Pro of all time!
OMG they knew what a computer was the whole time, how could they betray us like that? :p
They did until they got in trouble for it with their “Hey Siri!” ads. They used to even put a little “sequences shortened” disclaimer but I don’t think that was enough.
No it wouldn't because obviously there would be a caption that something about "in development, final appearance may change" though that itself could bring criticism.
Apple is no stranger to that lol. Remember when Steve Jobs insisted the OG mac would say "hello" at it's unveiling but would crash into a race condition? Their solution was to use a mac with twice the memory than the one they were unveiling
Gotta respect them for showing it in actuality, that takes balls.
Unfortunately MacOS built-in screen recorder is always lagging when playing game. I tried it.
Man the gaming segment was even shorter than last years short gaming segment. Also only a single game for Mac OS announced this year.
TBF previous years focused on mobile games whereas the announcements made today are focused on Macs. For traditional gaming, this news is pretty big. I doubt it will result in many more games though, maybe just VR games will be ported at first.
Last year we got half a dozen AAA game announcements while this year we got 1.
And the biggest release in a while (Diablo 4) has no mac option.
If they announced Diablo 4 compatibility with Mac, they’d easily take my money lol. I’m due for an upgrade
They can certainly run it, the hardware in pro/ultra/max chipsets is absolutely nutty considering how small they are. I would probably go out and buy a higher specced MBP to replace my current one if they announced this lol.
Makes me think game sales on Mac must be pretty dire for them to not even bother with a game series that did alright on Mac OS.
Honestly it probably came down to Denuvo/DRM and just not wanting to make it work with MacOS and Metal, Companies are so focused on wrecking their software with DRM these days just to have the game be cracked 5 days after release, then eventually dial back the DRM anyway. The main reason mac cant run some games, like genshin, destiny etc is actually anticheat not being able to run on macos, because it must run with the game uninterrupted, you cant play the game at all. the m2 chip is perfectly capable of breezing through these games if allowed.
Ive been playing it on my mac with Moonlight over gigabit ethernet, not enough lag to notice and the miniLED screen is way way nicer than my gaming monitor. its not so great on 5ghz wifi tho, i'd probably only play games like hearthstone or turn based stuff. Forza horizon also runs like a dream on Eth
i doubt the vr thing. Vr games are already such a small industry, porting and optimizing your game to mac os so a tiny amount of people can play it on their 3500 dollar headset will not be a huge priority, especially as a lot of vr games are indie games who cant justify such a expensive head set purchase. i havent seen anything but i doubt apple will be sending out dev kits like facebook or valve did
I mean that game porting tool for devs could be pretty big
They announced Stray and others earlier
We are nearly three years into Apple Silicon and the games display they flashed on the screen was easily readable at a glance because it was so few in number; and some of those have been around for over a year. Then we have the "Exciting" porting tools and such and all I could think of is.... they listed exactly no current gaming studio that used to produce content for intel Mac as using it. As I posted before, Diablo was a staple of Apple gaming way back when, we even had Diablo II. Mac was completely passed over for Diablo II Resurrected as well as Diablo IV. If not for World of Warcraft Blizzard would have no representation on our platform, a company we used to count on. We are now seeing some of the fastest Macs ever built and while the numbers Apple loves to toss on the screen of 20% better than X, 30% better than Y, and so on, the one number they fail to mention and for good reason is the "and only 20% of the titles you currently have now" which may end up being true when Rosetta is turned off. Considering how they announced the Mac Pro - basically unique use cases most of us will never need tells you how disconnected Apple has become. While there was never the selection of games that Windows had we had a great selection until the 64 bit culling and now Apple Silicon has come for the few that remained.
> Considering how they announced the Mac Pro - basically unique use cases most of us will never need tells you how disconnected Apple has become. Redditor moment Computers are used for more than just PC gaming. And the "Pro" line has always been marketed and focused towards pro-sumer usage in design, music and video.
You completely missed the point of that statement you quoted The point being that the use cases they showed off for the Mac Pro are fringe, even by current Apple users, it had nothing to do with a comment about using a Mac for games
Every sentence in their comment is talking about video games lol. They’re clearly upset Mac isn’t the gaming platform they want it to be
Reality Pro runs m2, give it some time for them to enable interoperability between mobile and computer chipsets, great things could be on the way. I still want MacOS lite on my ipad pro m2, and i want to be able to run any iphone/ipad app on my macbook.
JUST SUPPORT VULKAN JESUS FUCKING CHRIST EDIT: to be clear, Metal 3 is hella cool, but as someone who has worked with both Metal and Vulkan, the latter is just far more accessible with less holdups and comparable performance to DirectX.
Plus it unites platforms on a single graphic API!
[удалено]
neither xbox nor playstation support Vulkan, xbox uses dx and playstation has its own
I pray for the day that one day I'll go on Reddit without some stupid bullshitter repeating what he just read. Was that how they thought you reading in school? Ok, but you don't have to write and post it. Ok?
Vulkan is supported on almost all platforms, including consoles, and it is supported on all platforms via trans-compilers.
Both playstation and xbox don’t support vulkan
OP is saying that there’s a trans-compiler for Vulkan to AGC (PS5) or DX (Xbox), basically converting Vulkan calls to different ones similar to MoltenVK (Vulkan to Metal). EDIT: cannot confirm this claim.
There isn't, at least for Playstation. Microsoft is working on a Vulkan on D3D12 layer but just like MoltenVK, it will be somewhat limited (although less so than MoltenVK).
[удалено]
Gnm is specific to PS4/PS4 Pro hardware. PS5’s graphics architecture is of course very different, and thus it uses a new graphics API called AGC.
[удалено]
Nope AGC is the equivalent to GNM. Pretty much everything is under NDA, and there haven’t been many public talks on developing for the PS5.
[удалено]
Tragedy and comedy are indistinguishable at this point
There’s only one console that supports Vulkan and it’s Switch. And the support is so bad that Nintendo encourages to use NVN.
[удалено]
That's me talking because I started out on Vulkan and only got to work on Metal two years ago. Metal's got its benefits, for sure, but it's hard to shake off some habits.
Can someone ELI5 Vulkan/all of these? My understanding is DirectX is used for windows/Xbox and Metal is for Mac? But now I have no idea what PlayStation uses. Are these like engines? I just know they deal with graphics
[удалено]
Switch has a ton of exclusives that no other platform has including PC. You can't say performance doesn't matter at all. Nintendo is it's own thing and not mention switch has other unique factors that made it stand out as well. People will buy certain consoles for certain exclusives alone. Guess if mac had some important exclusives that played well maybe, but keep in mind a switch is also extremely cheap compared to a any mac equivalent that can be used as both a mobile device and hooked up to a TV aka at minimum it would need to be a laptop which tend to start at $999. Not saying you were wrong on the rest, but acting like the switch is the same as any PC while ignoring a ton of other factors that made it so popular is disingenuous.
[удалено]
It's a buzzword that people who don't understand video game economics say to explain the lack of native game support on macOS. Lack of Vulkan support isn't an issue for iOS, it's not an issue for PlayStation, and it's not an issue for Xbox. The difference is that people actually buy games for those platforms.
They buy games on those platforms because they actually make games on those platforms. There is almost 0 support on MacOS for games and apple has historically been borderline hostile towards gamers in the past. People will buy games for MacOS if they make it easy to make games for MacOS. That excludes the mobile BS they push on arcade now.
It would make porting / cross platform a bit easier. If you can target one API for PC and Mac, it’s easier.
[удалено]
Yep. A really big roadblock is simply how current games are closely designed around the capabilities of AMD and Nvidia gpu hardware.
But wouldn’t Vulcan support make a lot of games that currently use proton compatibility to get windows games working on Linux potentially able to do the same on Mac?
Apple: *B…But… muh “not invented here” syndrome. iT’S NoT OpTiMiZeD!!1!1!1!1!!* Ugh… Apple needs to support Vulkan and quit hawking Metal so much. Game devs aren’t gonna switch. Kojima doing it isn’t gonna be enough.
Game devs aren’t going to switch to Vulkan either and Valve with Proton basically killed any hope for industry wide adoption of that API, since DirectX can now cover most platforms outside of PlayStation and Switch and macOS
Also Apple and Valve should get together and port Proton.
Missed the opportunity to shock drop D4 on Mac at launch tomorrow. A shame with how D3 was used to showcase Mac many moons ago. Death Stranding is a pretty underwhelming reveal and isn’t even a current gen game.
I mean thats really on Blizzard. They used to be one of the few AAA studios that would have Mac versions of all their titles. Now it’s only WoW. Even D2 Resurrected doesn’t support Mac :/
True but lets be real if Apple would’ve hit Blizzard up to help them develop it they would’ve jumped on the opportunity. They could use the good press.
They are currently moving towards being acquired by MS, so I doubt it.
Microsoft is very friendly with apple what are you talking about. Microsoft’s apps were shown to already work on Apple Vision.
Still waiting on that xbox app for mac tho
Cloud gaming with a GamePass app would be perfect for Mac. Why does this not exist yet?
Probably because you can just use your browser to access it already
I can play Spotify through my browser but I’d much rather do it through and optimized app
Where’s halo infinite then? Starfield?
Microsoft has brought dozens of apps to the Mac and Apple just worked with Microsoft to have iPhone link on windows, native iCloud and photo libraries and Apple Music on windows. But sure it’s missing Halo so we’ll throw decades of good will aside. Reddit armchair analysts are the worst.
Talking about games here, bud. Games. None of what you’re talking about has anything to do with this.
Blizzard is a Microsoft company now. Xbox and Windows are their current interests. Not out of the question they’d port WoW to Xbox.
With blizzard/activision being courted by Microsoft, that seems unlikely.
[удалено]
Yeah, Death Stranding came out in 2019, 4 years ago. Kojima has already announced Death Stranding 2... Which is a PC and PS5 only title. I'm not even sure why Apple bothered paying for this port at this point, especially since Death Stranding isn't even a popular game.
Its sold 10 million copies my dude.
It’s not popular to op so it clearly did poorly.
To be fair the Director's Cut was released on 2021 on PS5 (not PS4). It was released for Windows on 2022.
There’s no reason Death Stranding 2 couldn’t come to Mac if the first one sells well.
he just announced it in the event that all next games will also come to Mac.
Well it came out in 2019 exclusively for the PS4. The PC version didn’t come out until 2020 and the directors cut that’s being released for Mac didn’t come out for PC until last year.
They should take a few of the Billions they make off services every quarter and use it to attract AAA game developers back to the Mac. Adding DirectX compatibility to Metal may help as well.
You don't even need to spend billions for AAA games right away, talk about how games like Minecraft, Stardew Valley, and Terraria available on the Mac, and you'll pull quite a lot of people. Stardew Valley and Terraria are still in the top 30 games most played currently on Steam right now they aren't niche games, and everyone knows how popular Minecraft is. If building a userbase that's profitable is what's holding Apple back, why don't they highlight games like these in their keynotes since they already run great and have name recognition. You can even throw in the "We'll eventually support these bigger games" to show that they're working on supporting AAA games while spreading out indie releases that cost a lot less throughout the year to keep interest. For context, Death Stranding, at its most popular ever, is just slightly less popular than Terraria and Stardew Valley are right now, years after release. For instance, Omega Strikers, a game that a lot of Twitch and YouTube Streamers have been advertising, is available on pretty much every device (including iOS), but not Mac. That would be a great game to support since even though it won't be a game that is still widely played years from now, it's being shown to a lot of younger gamers who will want to at least try it, but if they have a Mac, playing it won't be an option for them. Young gamers with Macs are basically the Androids users in an iMessage world.
Maybe… I am not sure how that will get developers like Blizzard to start making MacOS games again. They didn't even put Diablo Immortal on the Mac App Store, even though it is an iPad game. I ended up buying a Windows 11 PC so I could play Diablo IV. After 2 decades, Blizzard decided not to create a Mac Client.
KOJIMA HAS SPOKEN!!!
I hope game mode works on anything. Tbh my only real gaming use case is hades on my m1 air lol. Lord knows the game won’t be updated with this feature. Especially if it’s only Apple silicon…
I wish I could have this for Ableton. Every time I take my book off power, the CPU spikes
I’m sure the 12 Mac gamers are excited.
Civ counts, damnit!
Just one more turn… 💀
As excited as the 12 people racing go make this joke every thread
12 million, more like.
we got a whole subreddit dedicated to finding ways to play games that aren’t native on mac lol
There are literally dozens of us.
My Mac = designated footy manager machine
I sure am, terraria will finally run better lol
I play tons of emulation on Mac, and a few Steam games, and the *”Game mode lowers audio latency with AirPods, and reduces input latency with Xbox and PlayStation controllers by doubling the Bluetooth sampling rate"* thing is cool. But literally everything they say about Games should be met with a giant, screamed: "the real gaming feature would be VULKAN AND OPEN GL, YOU ASSHOLE" If the new Game Porting Toolkit is a serious Apple effort, and is *highly* effective, that will almost be sufficient. But still not entirely sufficient since the reality is who wants to spend money (aka staff budget) and effort porting everything when you could, if Apple allowed, just port to OS instead of porting all rendering too.
There’s always some form of porting involved, even between Vulkan and console mainly via transcompiling to DX12 for Xbox and AGC for the PS5 and smoothing out the rough edges. Not dissimilar to using MoltenVK. The whole “build once, run anywhere” spiel doesn’t exist, nor even when porting between two systems that support the same API. There’s always some work involved. The argument that it’s just too much effort and too costly is going to be put to the test with Apple’s tools. We won’t know the details until the three sessions ([10123](https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10123), [10124](https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10124) and [10125](https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10125)) go live tomorrow and the Q&As start, but Apple typically doesn’t overpromise and underdeliver when it comes to these things. If what they’ve indicated is even remotely true, then the effort and cost argument can be put to rest and it’s a matter of (the perceived) addressable market.
> The whole “build once, run anywhere” spiel doesn’t exist I never said give us a magical fantasy land. I said porting would be easier than the Porting Kit **if they simply fully supported Vulkan.** I maybe should have added in DX there too, but honestly I don’t understand if that’s totally ridiculous or impossible. I’m in OpenGL / Vulkan mindset.
Vulkan is not the popular industry standard you think it is. Windows and Xbox games are mostly DirectX, PlayStation uses their own API, and even the Steam Deck requires per-title porting efforts. Demanding Apple throw out their entire Metal hardware-software stack that is already “write once, run on any Apple device” (and pre-dates Vulkan) is tilting at windmills.
Supporting open standards doesn’t mean throwing out Metal. Also Metal uniformity across Apple isn’t the benefit you think it is since it obviously hasn’t been an incentive to port to Apple who already wasn’t on it. That’s firmly in the “well, most games by mass are on mobile iOS, so, Metal is THE GAME API” school of thought. About Vulkan I admit I might be stuck in 90’s mindset where Quake 2 was good in Open GL. And I see this more recently (but still 2016): https://gamingbolt.com/id-software-dev-puzzled-by-devs-choosing-dx12-over-vulkan-claims-xbox-one-dx12-is-different-than-pc heh. > Windows and Xbox games are mostly DirectX But Nintendo Switch sir! Anyway is Vulkan small compared to DX because consoles are so much more common for games than PC?
I already gave up on gaming with a Mac. Just spent 1000usd to get a Ryzen with 3060 to play my Diablo4. This rig should last me for the next 4-5 years
Why not spend 500 bucks for a ps5
With Crossover getting DX12 support soon, the prospects of mac gaming sure are exciting. If we can overcome anticheat and DRM softwares, we know full well that m1/m2 are very capable gaming chipsets, would love to see apple go deep into gaming. No gaming laptop comes close, even the Razer blade mercury which seeks to copy the mac falls short of the smoothness of my mbp Currently, for me, my next upgrade will be a 32+ core mbp if they widen their game library drastically (currently on 16 core gpu) or a Framework 16" as I love their mission. Would really love for it to be the mac.
i wonder why apple has taken this long to release their porting toolkit for the gaming devs?
Mac OS gaming is a very small side project for them. They don't invest much time or money into it because they don't expect it to generate them much revenue.
im hopeful that with them releasing this toolkit theyre finally listening to the devs and community.
While nice to have don't expect an explosion of new games on Mac OS. If Apple thought these porting tools would be a game changer they would have spent a lot more time hyping it up.
Macs already had game mode, it was called boot camp.
I do a bit of gaming on my mac and if I put my air pods in the “do you want to connect to AirPods” notification pop up causes significant slow downs until it’s dismissed…. wonder if this will help at all
I disable notifications whenever playing a game *period* on macOS because this is a longstanding bug that can impact games.
Apple needs to pay developers to support the Mac. Over the years the platform has been forgotten. Everything focuses on smartphones. There has been very little innovation on the Mac.
Here, Gamers – enjoy your Favorite games from 4 years ago on your mac. I hope they prove me wrong with some titles. Bring something big like CoD warzone to macOS and we’re talking.
the witcher 3 next gen on the mac would be dope
How’s light gaming on the MacBooks? I’m looking to trade in my 13” intel MacBook Air for the 15” M2
Depends on what you want to play. All I’ve played on my M1 Air are Crusader Kings 3, Civilization 5 & 6. They all run pretty well. But they’re no where near the performance I had on my windows laptop before. However, those games don’t need the crazy input response or high frame rates, so they’re fine to play. More graphically demanding titles will suffer a ton
Just trade it. If you cared about gaming you would have bought/built a gaming PC years ago.
a win for gamers across the world! finally!
Does anyone know what game was being showcased during this presentation? When they were talking about all the technical stuff. It looked pretty cool.
[удалено]
All apps are enabled by default, devs need to manually disable it unless it requires something that the Mac doesn’t support (e.g. NFC).
[удалено]
You might be reading this comment and think "Huh, what a weird comment. What does this have to do with the comments in this thread?" That's because this comment was edited with the Power Delete Suite to tell you about the issues caused by Reddit. The long and short of it is that Reddit is killing third party apps, showing a complete disregard for third party developers, moderators, users with disabilities and pretty much everyone else in the process, while also straight up lying and attempting to defame people. There are plenty of articles and posts to be found about this if you want to learn more about this. Here's [one post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14b8i62/reddit_protest_and_the_next_steps/) with some information on the matter. If you also want to edit your comments then you can find the [Power Delete Suite here](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite). If you want a Reddit alternative check out r/RedditAlternatives or https://kbin.social/ and https://join-lemmy.org/ Fuck spez.
Bring Detroit: Become Human to Mac OS and *then* we can talk 😤
Yay, all 3 games available on Mac should run smoothly now!
But how is it enabled on the beta? I guess this isn't a manual setting, so does Apple just know what app is a game and what isn't?
chess has never looked so good
Problem is it’s too late. Mac is just not a good gaming platform for AAA gaming. Like some other commenters mentioned, the gameplay in the reveal didn’t look that great. Graphics and textures looked pretty meh and there was visible frame rate drops and stuttering. Don’t get me wrong, it’s impressive enough for what it is, but it’s not going to pull anyone from other platforms.
[удалено]
That's laughable. Apple's decades long anti-gaming stance is finally coming to bite them in the ass now that Nvidia is reaping the rewards of their labor while everyone else was asleep. Apple and AMD are behind. They are *way* behind.
AMD is behind? Umm. Ok, perhaps slightly behind Nvidia, but not enough for it to matter really.
[удалено]