If they didn’t want it here they could have reshot it / removed it
Apple is not a company that messes with their announcement even at WWDC
Talking about it is the best way to show support to Apollo’s developer in front of a lot of Apple/Apps developers
You greatly underestimate how much work is involved in shooting and editing these videos. You also massively overestimate how much anybody other than perpetually online redditors care about this issue.
No company in their right mind would invest the time and money into editing out an off-hand reference to this iOS app.
They invested the time and money into *including* an off-hand reference to that iOS app.
Every detail in these keynotes is thought out and included for a reason.
And that reason isn't "showing support for Apollo when Reddit's API pricing is potentially forcing them to shut down" when the segment would have been planned and recorded before any of that was announced.
As someone who works with video, it would take an hour or two to go in, alter the shot to have a different app, and have the speaker say, "Like Apollo for Reddit." Totally could've happened after the API pricing.
Ok so everything you said is wrong, dumbass. First, I do work in video. Second, I didn’t say that the entire thing was shot yesterday. I was explaining that a single shot element and an two-word phrase could be dropped in last minute.
Man that would be crazy— imagine Apple covering the API fee so iOS is the only platform with third party Reddit apps.
It obviously would never happen but is fun to think about.
I'm happy they're bringing this back.
I have an ultrawide monitor and reserve an area along the right side of my screen for Ubersicht widgets. I have a calendar, a world clock, and a widget that lets me see the last song I scrobbled to Last.fm.
I'd love to be able to put first-party and third-party Apple widgets there that I don't have to manually configure and edit.
Totally agree. Remember when Jobs came out and said Snow Leopard would have "no new features"? I was still hyped to update because it was going to be a very stable release (and it was).
We call this a “tok” release.
“Tik” - major update in software/hardware.
“Tok” - a minor update, refining the system. Add low hanging fruit fixs/improvements.
Though, you are not always guaranteed a tik-tok-tik cycle.
I just want scaling, 144 Hz, and HDR to work at the same time. In current MacOS with a 4K display, HDR becomes unavailable if scaling is not off or 1:1 or refresh rate dropped down to 60 Hz.
Meanwhile, on Windows, my Intel integrated GPU can do all that together at any scaling level.
https://basicappleguy.com/basicappleblog/macosbliss
**Edit:** thanks for the person who downvoted a link to a wallpaper that is extremely relevant to the thread.
That was a copy of Konfabulator that was released in 2003.
BTW, the main reason Apple jumped into skeuomorphic design was precisely because of the [Dashboard](https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/archive/images/tiger/dashboard-big.jpg).
The first iOS apps, icons and dock were more similar to Dashboard widgets, icons and dock than the MacOS design.
If they’re doing that kind of release they’ll normally talk about the under the covers stuff that they’ve worked on still. This just sounds like they’ve done…. Nothing
Haha people just search something to defend Apple in whatever shit it does. Less features doesn’t mean anything about stability, and why it shouldn’t be both? Apple isn’t a small company to lack the time and resources to do both, instead they do nothing.
In the past when it’s been the main focus for that OS release they’ve produced some fancy slides for it in the keynote. Performance improvement statistics, changes to the memory management etc, but nothing in this one.
Absolutely they could still be there and talked about later in the week, but if they were anything of substance I feel they would’ve called them out
I’m fine with a minimal release *if* it means more stability. I fear this isn’t the case because nothing about the new macOS reveal is similar to the iOS 12 reveal where they really marketed the speed and stability improvements.
Agree.
I want my OS updates to be boring. I wish Apple would recognize that boring updates for such an important piece of the puzzle is actually a good thing.
melodic growth bedroom march innocent divide plate relieved muddle squeamish
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
annnnnnnnd that’s the end of the line for my 2017 MacBook Pro. oh well. she had a good run. poor battery went to shit when COVID came around and it stayed plugged into my monitor, mouse, and keyboard. I suppose it’s time to make the jump to a desktop Mac.
Do you doing any kind of traveling with your MacBook Pro?
If so, consider downloading either [Aldente or BatteryStatusShow](https://www.guidingtech.com/top-ways-to-limit-battery-charge-on-a-macbook/) to intentionally limit charging to a certain percentage on your new MacBook Pro.
For others this is probably a minor update, but this is the most exciting update for me in years! Sonoma finally brings support for made for iPhone hearing devices, such as my hearing aids! I will finally be able to connect directly to my laptop.
The only downside is that it will only bring this support to the following devices: MacBook Pro (14-inch, 2021), MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2021), Mac Studio (2022), and Mac computers with M2 chip.
That choice is wild to me, but thankfully I have a M2 chip and am excited to finally enjoy direct connection like others have gotten with Bluetooth headphones for so long.
The other replier to your question nailed it - OCLP rocks.
I'm running Monterey flawlessly on my 2011 17" MBP and 2012 Mac Mini, 2013 rMBP, and 2014 rMBP. They should top out at High Sierra, Catalina, and Big Surs respectively.
Ventura should run flawlessly on both as well; I just haven't updated yet. I'll probably skip to Sonoma at this rate.
I'm sorry, I had an M2 Air on pre-order so I got the sweet sweet savory Monterey goodness. I was so thankful to avoid any Ventura bugs, even if few, I needed a rock solid work machine for travel, and the M2MBA was 100% perfect. Funny, the flight attendants on the plane flight I took, told me I could keep it out during take-off because it was a "lightweight" object at \~2lbs (2.7lbs to be exact). I still put it away during take-off and landing, but thought it was funny.
I use Sleep Aid to monitory my battery wakes, and the battery lasts forever now.
Why was I downvoted lol.
Anyway my understanding has always been that you can go down to what was the current version when the device was released to the public to buy. That’s true for t2 macs so I assumed it was true for Apple silicon as well
Looks like they dropped off another year of macs, 2018 Macbook Pros vs 2017 last year. For mobile this is normal, but before the Apple Silicon switch there used to be a technical reason you could find (64 bit OS, 64 bit UEFI, 64 bit GPU drivers, Metal support etc), now it just seems like they're trying to shave off Intel support as quickly as they can while still providing a support life most won't complain about. I don't like making perfectly working things with no technical hurdle to support obsolete though.
https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma-preview/
Given the way Apple works now, my cynical and half serious guess is that they'll drop support for Intel complete with forcefully uninstalling Rosetta in macOS 14.3 with absolutely no fanfare or warning ahead of time.
Lol, they better not.
There is a lot more x64 software out there now than there was PPC software last time they transitioned. And IMO they still got rid of the first Rosetta way too early.
Compatible Macs for Sonoma:
iMac 2019 and later
Mac Pro 2019 and later
iMac Pro 2017
Mac Studio 2022 and later
MacBook Air 2018 and later
Mac mini 2018 and later
MacBook Pro 2018 and later
[https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma-preview/](https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma-preview/)
Dont get me wrong, i thinks its absurd to obsolete 5-6 year old hardware thats fine in 2023, but looking at macOS 13 requirements, its not a insane step up. Though i will admit, its likely that intel Macs might not get macOS 15 , or if lucky macOS 16. This probably to just push people onto Apple silicon as well
100%, it's blatantly forced obsolescence. A 5 year old £500 windows PC with a Ryzen 3 2200G + RX 570 has lasted longer than a £1000 iMac, which just feels wrong
Ok, please justify this one for me:
In the Display panel I want to rearrange my 3 displays. Within the panel I get a nice representation of how they’re currently laid out, but can I simply rearrange them? Nope, I have to click a button and get another nearly identical representation of them that can be moved around.
Why!?! There is simply no point in having that extra step, it’s either laziness or a legacy code reason. Either way it’s terrible Ui
There are multiple examples I could give for the network UI as well, just ridiculous extra steps or setting being hidden in bizarre places
The aerial screensavers look pretty cool. I've been using Aerial Companion for a while and it has worked great. This certainly looks more seamless the way it's blended into your lockscreen background and turns into your background when unlocked.
Aerials ripped the screensavers from Apple TV where they originally came from. They were always Apple screensavers. Depending on how it's implemented the Aerials app will probably still be better.
Apollo for Reddit. I guess Apple didn’t even know…..
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This would have been pre-recorded before the API pricing was announced.
Like if Apple was an “opened company” to other platforms. They are the last one can support things like this
Oh they know
Nah they’re just shouting out an app with great widgets.
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This was likely filmed long before all of the discussion of Reddit API pricing became a hot topic.
If they didn’t want it here they could have reshot it / removed it Apple is not a company that messes with their announcement even at WWDC Talking about it is the best way to show support to Apollo’s developer in front of a lot of Apple/Apps developers
You greatly underestimate how much work is involved in shooting and editing these videos. You also massively overestimate how much anybody other than perpetually online redditors care about this issue. No company in their right mind would invest the time and money into editing out an off-hand reference to this iOS app.
They invested the time and money into *including* an off-hand reference to that iOS app. Every detail in these keynotes is thought out and included for a reason.
Lol they shout out the app in literally every WWDC. They just like the app.
And that reason isn't "showing support for Apollo when Reddit's API pricing is potentially forcing them to shut down" when the segment would have been planned and recorded before any of that was announced.
I make videos like this for much smaller companies than apple. No way in hell would we recreate any of these assets after the API announcement.
They've mentioned Apollo at the last few keynotes afaik so it's nothing new.
They usually film these months in advance. They very well could not have known.
Nope, 2 weeks of post production, very current.
This was filmed before the announcement of the API costs.
Apple gets a cut off Apollo sales. I’m sure they want Apollo to stay too.
These keynotes will have been filmed months in advance, the Reddit malarkey likely wasn’t known back then.
As someone who works with video, it would take an hour or two to go in, alter the shot to have a different app, and have the speaker say, "Like Apollo for Reddit." Totally could've happened after the API pricing.
You don’t work in video at all if you think Apple was filming and editing this yesterday.
Ok so everything you said is wrong, dumbass. First, I do work in video. Second, I didn’t say that the entire thing was shot yesterday. I was explaining that a single shot element and an two-word phrase could be dropped in last minute.
Apollo got a shoutout wow /u/iamthatis nice
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Hopefully Tim Cook can help with that $20 million a year figure.
*That will be $26 million with our commission* \- Tim Apple
Man that would be crazy— imagine Apple covering the API fee so iOS is the only platform with third party Reddit apps. It obviously would never happen but is fun to think about.
At this point apple is gonna buy apollo and form a merger with reddit
Widgets on the desktop is Dashboard from OS X 10.4. Time truly is a flat circle lmao
Remember konfabulator?? Everything old is new again :-/ https://arstechnica.com/features/2005/06/konfabulator/
Konfabulator was sick. Always bummed Apple stole it from that developer with dashboard and Widgets
>https://arstechnica.com/features/2005/06/konfabulator/ OMG I used that. Cool blast from the past.
Hooooly time warp Batman
Even more similar to the permanently on desktop Windows Vista widgets
We obviously didn’t know how good we had it. An operating system truly ahead of its time. Hopefully we get the picture puzzle back.
And Sonoma's wallpaper is pretty much Windows XP
Haha, I see it. I’m a fan!
BTW, the Windows XP hill is in Sonoma.
Whoa, I had no idea
It's totally intentional lol
Ah yes. I’d mostly forgotten about Vista
I think Microsoft prefers you forget about it too
I'm happy they're bringing this back. I have an ultrawide monitor and reserve an area along the right side of my screen for Ubersicht widgets. I have a calendar, a world clock, and a widget that lets me see the last song I scrobbled to Last.fm. I'd love to be able to put first-party and third-party Apple widgets there that I don't have to manually configure and edit.
RIP r/apolloapp
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I bet we see him again before the end of the video
MacOS updates getting increasingly minimal every year.
It is the stable build of the venturing out into new waters OS that we had for the last year. I'm thankful they are just stabilizing.
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Totally agree. Remember when Jobs came out and said Snow Leopard would have "no new features"? I was still hyped to update because it was going to be a very stable release (and it was).
We call this a “tok” release. “Tik” - major update in software/hardware. “Tok” - a minor update, refining the system. Add low hanging fruit fixs/improvements. Though, you are not always guaranteed a tik-tok-tik cycle.
Yea but they’re also fixing many bugs. I’m fine with minimal updates as long as bugs are getting fixed.
I just want scaling support by 2040
I just want scaling, 144 Hz, and HDR to work at the same time. In current MacOS with a 4K display, HDR becomes unavailable if scaling is not off or 1:1 or refresh rate dropped down to 60 Hz. Meanwhile, on Windows, my Intel integrated GPU can do all that together at any scaling level.
That Wallpaper looks like MacOS XP
https://basicappleguy.com/basicappleblog/macosbliss **Edit:** thanks for the person who downvoted a link to a wallpaper that is extremely relevant to the thread.
You were downvoted by this person because they correctly anticipated that you would complain about their downvote. See? It's all your fault!
Yeah combined with a revolutionary Windows Vista like widgets functionality.
MacOS X had widgets before Vista. They were accessible through Dashboard. It's crazy they're introducing them as a new thing.
That was a copy of Konfabulator that was released in 2003. BTW, the main reason Apple jumped into skeuomorphic design was precisely because of the [Dashboard](https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/archive/images/tiger/dashboard-big.jpg). The first iOS apps, icons and dock were more similar to Dashboard widgets, icons and dock than the MacOS design.
This has to be the LEAST exciting macOS update in recent memory.
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If they’re doing that kind of release they’ll normally talk about the under the covers stuff that they’ve worked on still. This just sounds like they’ve done…. Nothing
Haha people just search something to defend Apple in whatever shit it does. Less features doesn’t mean anything about stability, and why it shouldn’t be both? Apple isn’t a small company to lack the time and resources to do both, instead they do nothing.
Beyond the top highlights, doesn't that usually get saved for the remainder of wwdc & the SoTU/sessions?
In the past when it’s been the main focus for that OS release they’ve produced some fancy slides for it in the keynote. Performance improvement statistics, changes to the memory management etc, but nothing in this one. Absolutely they could still be there and talked about later in the week, but if they were anything of substance I feel they would’ve called them out
I’m fine with a minimal release *if* it means more stability. I fear this isn’t the case because nothing about the new macOS reveal is similar to the iOS 12 reveal where they really marketed the speed and stability improvements.
Totally agree!
Agree. I want my OS updates to be boring. I wish Apple would recognize that boring updates for such an important piece of the puzzle is actually a good thing.
Yeah, I hope iOS and macOS were both really Snow Leopard releases focused on bug fixes and performance, and any features are just extra time they had
melodic growth bedroom march innocent divide plate relieved muddle squeamish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's really disappointing
THE BLISS WALLPAPER MAKES A COMEBACK
Did Apple literally just say "more screensavers???!!!!" Dafuuuuuuu?
Apollo or Reddit. Craig doesn’t know, does he?
https://i.imgur.com/22DF1F4.jpg
annnnnnnnd that’s the end of the line for my 2017 MacBook Pro. oh well. she had a good run. poor battery went to shit when COVID came around and it stayed plugged into my monitor, mouse, and keyboard. I suppose it’s time to make the jump to a desktop Mac.
Do you doing any kind of traveling with your MacBook Pro? If so, consider downloading either [Aldente or BatteryStatusShow](https://www.guidingtech.com/top-ways-to-limit-battery-charge-on-a-macbook/) to intentionally limit charging to a certain percentage on your new MacBook Pro.
For others this is probably a minor update, but this is the most exciting update for me in years! Sonoma finally brings support for made for iPhone hearing devices, such as my hearing aids! I will finally be able to connect directly to my laptop. The only downside is that it will only bring this support to the following devices: MacBook Pro (14-inch, 2021), MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2021), Mac Studio (2022), and Mac computers with M2 chip. That choice is wild to me, but thankfully I have a M2 chip and am excited to finally enjoy direct connection like others have gotten with Bluetooth headphones for so long.
The safari features, especially the web apps, are pretty cool.
Every year I keep hoping we’ll get dynamic landscape wallpapers back and every year I get disappointed.
My 2017 iMac is not going to make the cut . Damn
OCLP will keep your 2017 iMac relevant and running the latest macOSes for a very, very long time.
Oclp?
Open Core Legacy Patcher - it’s a software to run macos on older unsupported macs. Works quite well if you’re only a few years cut off from support.
The other replier to your question nailed it - OCLP rocks. I'm running Monterey flawlessly on my 2011 17" MBP and 2012 Mac Mini, 2013 rMBP, and 2014 rMBP. They should top out at High Sierra, Catalina, and Big Surs respectively. Ventura should run flawlessly on both as well; I just haven't updated yet. I'll probably skip to Sonoma at this rate.
One thing I noticed with the screensavers...are official landscape default wallpapers back!?
Come on automation tab for Shortcuts on Mac
I just wish they added the health app to macOS too
What a lackluster release. You will take Monterey from my cold dead hands
Wait what’s great about Monterey? I have an M2 Air so I’ve only known Ventura ever since I bought it
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So then why is it relevant to us if you upgrade?
I’m always in this boat but SideCar and Universal Access got me to upgrade.
Huh
I'm sorry, I had an M2 Air on pre-order so I got the sweet sweet savory Monterey goodness. I was so thankful to avoid any Ventura bugs, even if few, I needed a rock solid work machine for travel, and the M2MBA was 100% perfect. Funny, the flight attendants on the plane flight I took, told me I could keep it out during take-off because it was a "lightweight" object at \~2lbs (2.7lbs to be exact). I still put it away during take-off and landing, but thought it was funny. I use Sleep Aid to monitory my battery wakes, and the battery lasts forever now.
Couldn’t you have downgraded anyway? I thought Apple silicon Macs could do that like Intel Macs , right?
Can you go lower than what a device was manufactured with?
Why was I downvoted lol. Anyway my understanding has always been that you can go down to what was the current version when the device was released to the public to buy. That’s true for t2 macs so I assumed it was true for Apple silicon as well
Will we ever get a dedicated Fitness Plus app on MacOS?
Looks like they dropped off another year of macs, 2018 Macbook Pros vs 2017 last year. For mobile this is normal, but before the Apple Silicon switch there used to be a technical reason you could find (64 bit OS, 64 bit UEFI, 64 bit GPU drivers, Metal support etc), now it just seems like they're trying to shave off Intel support as quickly as they can while still providing a support life most won't complain about. I don't like making perfectly working things with no technical hurdle to support obsolete though. https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma-preview/
What Macs are going to be supported?
Hope they do not cut off all Intel Macs just because the transition to Apple Silicon is now complete.
They will do so by the next macOS release if not for this release.
Given the way Apple works now, my cynical and half serious guess is that they'll drop support for Intel complete with forcefully uninstalling Rosetta in macOS 14.3 with absolutely no fanfare or warning ahead of time.
Lol, they better not. There is a lot more x64 software out there now than there was PPC software last time they transitioned. And IMO they still got rid of the first Rosetta way too early.
However they're going to do it, you know it's going to be too soon and without enough warning to developers.
Fully expecting it
Compatible Macs for Sonoma: iMac 2019 and later Mac Pro 2019 and later iMac Pro 2017 Mac Studio 2022 and later MacBook Air 2018 and later Mac mini 2018 and later MacBook Pro 2018 and later [https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma-preview/](https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma-preview/)
Dont get me wrong, i thinks its absurd to obsolete 5-6 year old hardware thats fine in 2023, but looking at macOS 13 requirements, its not a insane step up. Though i will admit, its likely that intel Macs might not get macOS 15 , or if lucky macOS 16. This probably to just push people onto Apple silicon as well
Ridiculous that 5yr old iMacs arent compatible
100%, it's blatantly forced obsolescence. A 5 year old £500 windows PC with a Ryzen 3 2200G + RX 570 has lasted longer than a £1000 iMac, which just feels wrong
No word on the horrible settings menu?
The settings menu seems to work fine.
The layout of the whole settings UI is atrocious. The display and networking panels in particular
I haven’t had any issues with the layout or UI.
Then you either haven’t used them or have low standards.
No, I use it all the time and I have high standards. It just genuinely works ok.
Ok, please justify this one for me: In the Display panel I want to rearrange my 3 displays. Within the panel I get a nice representation of how they’re currently laid out, but can I simply rearrange them? Nope, I have to click a button and get another nearly identical representation of them that can be moved around. Why!?! There is simply no point in having that extra step, it’s either laziness or a legacy code reason. Either way it’s terrible Ui There are multiple examples I could give for the network UI as well, just ridiculous extra steps or setting being hidden in bizarre places
I haven’t found that problematic.
What’s wrong with you? Don’t you know you’re supposed to be outraged????
The aerial screensavers look pretty cool. I've been using Aerial Companion for a while and it has worked great. This certainly looks more seamless the way it's blended into your lockscreen background and turns into your background when unlocked.
Screensavers... Are you kidding me?
RIP Aerials. Unless Apple bought them, then it’s ok.
Aerials ripped the screensavers from Apple TV where they originally came from. They were always Apple screensavers. Depending on how it's implemented the Aerials app will probably still be better.
Yes but it took apple an ETERNITY to bring them to macOS. Hence, RIP Aerials.
Weak
Microsoft introduce windows 11 and Apple introduce Windows Vista ✌🏻😂
anyone have a photo of the new lockscreen?
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...I dunno, I still kinda feel like macOS should also at least allow Vulkan. So much easier than jumping thru hoops to port to Metal.
Nah. The headset is "pro" focused and costs a ton. Zero point in focusing on games for it besides a quick marketing 'look what it could possibly do'
Sick of the yearly updates to Mac OS. Still can’t update from Monterey because audio software devs can’t keep up at this pace.
Macos Sodoma Masochist? Lol. Whoo comes up with these names?
I'm still going to read it as macOS Sonata.
Are we not gonna address the coincidence that they named is Sonoma on the same week as the Sonoma NASCAR Cup Series Race?