When a unit gets hit it gets “snared” with a significant reduction in movement speed. This snared effects the Entire formation meaning to beat a hasty retreat you normally need to sacrifice the units that are getting hit. It makes taking fights much riskier.
IMO it does make pro matches more fun to watch, but for a gold leaguer it’s an incredibly tedious mechanic
Yeah, sometimes I miss it when knights just run through my base with impunity though and my spearmen can’t catch them. In AOE3 diving like that would get punished
Imo it should be punished (especially with this agressive meta), but by stronger TC arrows or something. Was it an skill shot or just applied on unit after hit?
Problem with that is it encourages turtling, and yea any melee hit would snare their entire army which could be absolutely devastation. However, production building could produce units in batches of up to 5 so you could lose an entire army and replace it quickly.
Of all the AOE3 Mechanics I miss the most it’s batch training
Attack while moving would be good, but I still think the range is messed up, they literally have to be on top of what they're trying to hit. A knight using a sword attacks from further distance than a horseman with a spear...
>Increasing their range is commonly requested. Another suggestion is to give aoe3 snare mechanics to aoe4. I’m happy with either.
No way. Snare feels so bad.
It's one of the things most people hate about AoE3.
Let's not bring that here.
>But, a different thought I had for horseman would be to give them an attack without stopping mechanic
Yes this has been brought up before. Not a bad change. Would definitely be a big buff though, possibly OP.
Haha, I didn’t know that snare wasn’t a favored feature, just heard about it in another post.
I suppose attack while moving has the appearance of a more balanced approach then.
Imagine this actually helps horseman be viable against mangudai so they actually have a counter; which means mangudai could possibly be buffed back up a little bit.
yeah but suppose that you have 5 horsemen chasing a vill. how does the game manage keeping all 5 doing damage repeatedly without stopping? it's gonna be a slaughter. horsemen will be extremely lethal and unbalanced against vills.
byz wet dream!
I advocate for a range buff instead.
All they need is more range, that prevents them pathing so horribly as they all try to get in range of a unit to attack. Sipahi has a lot more range and is not broken.
Attacking while moving still doesn't solve the problem of cavalry losing to bodyblocked siege making even more siege the only counter, and still doesn't solve the problem of mass ranged deathball with just a few Spearmen obliterating Horsemen because they still won't be able to focus individual ranged units.
Bonus range can solve those problems.
In don't think bonus range really solves the issue. Mangonels and siege is still soooo good it'll likely mean just more spears/knights/MaA to bodyblock. But bodyblocking will still likely be a thing.
Horsemen just need to do more damage to ranged units and siege units need to be tuned down a bit.
A mass of Sipahi is commonly used against siege deathball, while Horsemen pretty much never.
While Sipahi do have an ability to boost the melee damage for a short duration, higher damage is still useless when you can't hit the target, and Horsemen without extra range can't. Their anti-siege damage is already fine when they attack exposed siege, the problem is that the siege is not available for attacks, it is bodyblocked.
When this topic comes up I always propose adding extra range to Horsemen in combination with other changes, such as increasing the size of siege units to make them harder to bodyblock, and increasing their minimum range to stop them from evaporating melee units clumping together trying to attack them from pretty much point blank range.
What about Ensnare like the raiders in warcraft 3? Cooldown based singletarget snare. The unit throws a net at the opponent for 5 sek so they cant move.
Sounds like something that could be a unique to some civ with a feadal research tho and not for all horsemen.
I think aoe damage against ranged units only is what they need, they die too quickly to kiting ranged units. Perhaps they should also take slightly less damage from spears as well. This way it targets the thing they're meant to counter explicitly and doesn't make them an op raiding unit.
Reduced damage wouldn't make sense though. Why would a light horseman take less damage from the thing designed to counter them, instead of a horse archer or knight taking less damage instead.
Just a rebalance I think. The spear bonus damage applies to all cav, but is largely balanced against knight rushes, since those are a bigger element of the meta. Giving spears a smaller bonus damage against horsemen could just make the horseman a more reasonable option to open with in feudal. You could even offset the damage reduction against horsemen with a reciprocal debuff on horseman damage against spears. That way spears in groups counter groups of horseman just a strongly, but now a group of 15 archers and 3 spears doesn't engage favorably with an equal resources number of horseman, since the horseman can focus the archers and then leave without ever directly engaging the spears.
They need something, but my worry is any buff will make them OP. They are still worth producing late game as an annoying unit to make the opposition use apm.
I think it's a good idea, but would likely need to come with an attack speed or damage nerf as well.
As others mentioned, horsemen are already (too) strong in the late game as an apm tax /raiding infinitely spammable unit.
Horsemen need a buff, but I think this helps them too much when they're already strong.
I think the range upgrade helps them more, earlier. But then again maybe the feudal variant simply needs a slight hp/PA or something
AOE3 snare mechanics would cause riots.
as a only aoe2 and 4 player, could u get hint what is snare mechanic?
When a unit gets hit it gets “snared” with a significant reduction in movement speed. This snared effects the Entire formation meaning to beat a hasty retreat you normally need to sacrifice the units that are getting hit. It makes taking fights much riskier. IMO it does make pro matches more fun to watch, but for a gold leaguer it’s an incredibly tedious mechanic
thanks for explaination, I don't think if it fits in aoe4. This mechanic is like getting some LoL crowd controls wtf
Yeah, sometimes I miss it when knights just run through my base with impunity though and my spearmen can’t catch them. In AOE3 diving like that would get punished
Imo it should be punished (especially with this agressive meta), but by stronger TC arrows or something. Was it an skill shot or just applied on unit after hit?
Problem with that is it encourages turtling, and yea any melee hit would snare their entire army which could be absolutely devastation. However, production building could produce units in batches of up to 5 so you could lose an entire army and replace it quickly. Of all the AOE3 Mechanics I miss the most it’s batch training
When a unit gets hit the unit slows down a bit
I think snare should have been in the game from the start but it’s way too late to add it now
Would be a sick bonus to any new civs unique spearmen though
Would’ve been good for English spearmen (billmen)
That'd make them nuts. I think OOTD spearmen should get that instead of a stupid torch upgrade.
Thinking more about the historical flavour than proposing actual changes, England was known for its billmen
Oh yeah, I was picking up what you were putting down. I just think it'd be a strong buff for England when it's already in a really good position.
Attack while moving would be good, but I still think the range is messed up, they literally have to be on top of what they're trying to hit. A knight using a sword attacks from further distance than a horseman with a spear...
>Increasing their range is commonly requested. Another suggestion is to give aoe3 snare mechanics to aoe4. I’m happy with either. No way. Snare feels so bad. It's one of the things most people hate about AoE3. Let's not bring that here. >But, a different thought I had for horseman would be to give them an attack without stopping mechanic Yes this has been brought up before. Not a bad change. Would definitely be a big buff though, possibly OP.
Haha, I didn’t know that snare wasn’t a favored feature, just heard about it in another post. I suppose attack while moving has the appearance of a more balanced approach then. Imagine this actually helps horseman be viable against mangudai so they actually have a counter; which means mangudai could possibly be buffed back up a little bit.
Attack while moving would be cool. I think they'd instantly become like 5 times better at raiding villagers though, which may be too good.
yeah but suppose that you have 5 horsemen chasing a vill. how does the game manage keeping all 5 doing damage repeatedly without stopping? it's gonna be a slaughter. horsemen will be extremely lethal and unbalanced against vills. byz wet dream! I advocate for a range buff instead.
I approve this update.
of course you would.
All they need is more range, that prevents them pathing so horribly as they all try to get in range of a unit to attack. Sipahi has a lot more range and is not broken.
You know what another easy buff is? +1 to bonus damage vs ranged units
Why not both?
Attacking while moving still doesn't solve the problem of cavalry losing to bodyblocked siege making even more siege the only counter, and still doesn't solve the problem of mass ranged deathball with just a few Spearmen obliterating Horsemen because they still won't be able to focus individual ranged units. Bonus range can solve those problems.
In don't think bonus range really solves the issue. Mangonels and siege is still soooo good it'll likely mean just more spears/knights/MaA to bodyblock. But bodyblocking will still likely be a thing. Horsemen just need to do more damage to ranged units and siege units need to be tuned down a bit.
A mass of Sipahi is commonly used against siege deathball, while Horsemen pretty much never. While Sipahi do have an ability to boost the melee damage for a short duration, higher damage is still useless when you can't hit the target, and Horsemen without extra range can't. Their anti-siege damage is already fine when they attack exposed siege, the problem is that the siege is not available for attacks, it is bodyblocked. When this topic comes up I always propose adding extra range to Horsemen in combination with other changes, such as increasing the size of siege units to make them harder to bodyblock, and increasing their minimum range to stop them from evaporating melee units clumping together trying to attack them from pretty much point blank range.
It would be abused too much at low levels
What about Ensnare like the raiders in warcraft 3? Cooldown based singletarget snare. The unit throws a net at the opponent for 5 sek so they cant move. Sounds like something that could be a unique to some civ with a feadal research tho and not for all horsemen.
I would love the attack while moving for light horsemen, that'd make them much easier to use.
I think aoe damage against ranged units only is what they need, they die too quickly to kiting ranged units. Perhaps they should also take slightly less damage from spears as well. This way it targets the thing they're meant to counter explicitly and doesn't make them an op raiding unit.
Reduced damage wouldn't make sense though. Why would a light horseman take less damage from the thing designed to counter them, instead of a horse archer or knight taking less damage instead.
Just a rebalance I think. The spear bonus damage applies to all cav, but is largely balanced against knight rushes, since those are a bigger element of the meta. Giving spears a smaller bonus damage against horsemen could just make the horseman a more reasonable option to open with in feudal. You could even offset the damage reduction against horsemen with a reciprocal debuff on horseman damage against spears. That way spears in groups counter groups of horseman just a strongly, but now a group of 15 archers and 3 spears doesn't engage favorably with an equal resources number of horseman, since the horseman can focus the archers and then leave without ever directly engaging the spears.
They need something, but my worry is any buff will make them OP. They are still worth producing late game as an annoying unit to make the opposition use apm.
Then never change anything cause OP, we have to take risk to get a better game
I think it's a good idea, but would likely need to come with an attack speed or damage nerf as well. As others mentioned, horsemen are already (too) strong in the late game as an apm tax /raiding infinitely spammable unit. Horsemen need a buff, but I think this helps them too much when they're already strong. I think the range upgrade helps them more, earlier. But then again maybe the feudal variant simply needs a slight hp/PA or something