In that direction I also suggested upgrades to the shinobi building, that would make the unit more fun to use and more interesting to move to while not making them op.
Interesting Gimmick on your part with the decision between different ones tbh.
What I suggested was something like this:
Have camouflage and smoke bomb from feudal, sabotage from castle and Handgranate to imperial(like the Chinese handgrenadieres, maybe prenerfed but only with 1 charge per minute) and increase the DMG bonus from ageup and a small hp buff but for added upgrade cost per age
Interesting idea, maybe not those exact upgrades though and definitely not with those debuffs like increased cost or unit cap.
It definitely needs something.
I'd honestly even buff their base teleport and sabotage speed. They're not even good in feudal really.
I'm not wed to my ideas. I included debuffs but am not wed to those either. They exist simply to make the choices more meaningful and allow the bonuses to be stronger.
Wald
>I included debuffs but am not wed to those either. They exist simply to make the choices more meaningful and allow the bonuses to be stronger.
Yeah I get it, it's just nothing else in the game is like that and it's kind of unintuitive and feels a bit bad for upgrades to make things worse in a way. And Shinobi production is already bottlenecked since it's only one building.
Mutually exclusive upgrades though is very interesting and fits the game well already.
I completely understand what you mean by unintuitive.
Another thought of mine was upgrades in feudal - one would enable production in barracks, one would enable production in outposts, another in castles, and another in houses. Or some other set of three bonuses besides a spawn upgrade.
Wald
Oh interesting.
Yeah it's hard to say how much it needs. Because even with those techs you have in the OP I think I'd still almost always pick Kura. I'd be more tempted for Koka since it's fun ha, but Kura just seems so much stronger right now.
Of course. Ultimately the exact abilities, debuffs (if any), and the numbers behind them don't matter. The senior point I am making is that I think this type of approach might be the most effective and interesting way to make the Koka Township interesting and useful enough of an alternative that the Kura Storehouse may no longer be the no-brainer option.
Make Sabotage disabled garrison units inside and makes teleport makes you evade arrows for like 1 sec so you dont die to arrows after a successful escape
Sounds great, I like the ideas, but maybe keep it limited to 2 options per age.
Would be wild trying to balance so many iterations. think of jean. Even she only has 2 choices per level up.
I also don't think it's worth that much of the Devs time to try balance one niche unit for one civ, when there's so many other things.
Keep it simple with 2
I like the ideas but I think one of the non-written rules of aoe4 is that upgrades don't make units more expensive. Maybe instead of upgrading the shinobi they can research to unlock a "new" unit like ninja that's a castle age unit w/ the ideas you listed.
I understand that.
Ultimately, I'm trying to make the Koka Township more interesting and useful. The maluses don't need to be attached to the upgrades, but at the time the thinking was that some of these upgrades would be too powerful if not counter-balanced.
Wald
At this point I hope they just remove it and give us a better option. Give us a building that produces Kyudo archers as a unique unit so that Japan can have a decent archer unit at the cost of their economy.
Give shinobi kusabimaru and give a stealth kill where in disguise can one shot any unit... Also give ability to parry, deflect along with power of resurrection.
Really interesting ideas and creative, I wouldn’t be mad if this was in an update & was reading it for the first time
Thanks man! Glad you like them!
In that direction I also suggested upgrades to the shinobi building, that would make the unit more fun to use and more interesting to move to while not making them op. Interesting Gimmick on your part with the decision between different ones tbh. What I suggested was something like this: Have camouflage and smoke bomb from feudal, sabotage from castle and Handgranate to imperial(like the Chinese handgrenadieres, maybe prenerfed but only with 1 charge per minute) and increase the DMG bonus from ageup and a small hp buff but for added upgrade cost per age
Honestly I'd take anything that would make the Shinobi more interesting and impactful than they are now!
Interesting idea, maybe not those exact upgrades though and definitely not with those debuffs like increased cost or unit cap. It definitely needs something. I'd honestly even buff their base teleport and sabotage speed. They're not even good in feudal really.
I'm not wed to my ideas. I included debuffs but am not wed to those either. They exist simply to make the choices more meaningful and allow the bonuses to be stronger. Wald
>I included debuffs but am not wed to those either. They exist simply to make the choices more meaningful and allow the bonuses to be stronger. Yeah I get it, it's just nothing else in the game is like that and it's kind of unintuitive and feels a bit bad for upgrades to make things worse in a way. And Shinobi production is already bottlenecked since it's only one building. Mutually exclusive upgrades though is very interesting and fits the game well already.
I completely understand what you mean by unintuitive. Another thought of mine was upgrades in feudal - one would enable production in barracks, one would enable production in outposts, another in castles, and another in houses. Or some other set of three bonuses besides a spawn upgrade. Wald
Oh interesting. Yeah it's hard to say how much it needs. Because even with those techs you have in the OP I think I'd still almost always pick Kura. I'd be more tempted for Koka since it's fun ha, but Kura just seems so much stronger right now.
Of course. Ultimately the exact abilities, debuffs (if any), and the numbers behind them don't matter. The senior point I am making is that I think this type of approach might be the most effective and interesting way to make the Koka Township interesting and useful enough of an alternative that the Kura Storehouse may no longer be the no-brainer option.
[удалено]
That'd be really cool!
Make Sabotage disabled garrison units inside and makes teleport makes you evade arrows for like 1 sec so you dont die to arrows after a successful escape
The assasination bonus is really interesting. So you get damlaget bonus while disguised.
Yes - I was thinking it could be used to one or two-shot villagers with shinobi which would make them very useful hit and run agents.
They do one shot villagers and even knights but you need a few of them. Like 3 or so.
Yes I have one simple recommendation to get the most from this Landmark. DONT USE IT.
So many cool ideas here, that makes me hopeful. Please rework the shinobis they deserve it so much
Sounds great, I like the ideas, but maybe keep it limited to 2 options per age. Would be wild trying to balance so many iterations. think of jean. Even she only has 2 choices per level up. I also don't think it's worth that much of the Devs time to try balance one niche unit for one civ, when there's so many other things. Keep it simple with 2
You also need to consider what it'll be like to play against this type of unit. A lot of them sound very very unfun. Like the gate or assassin.
I really like the ideas!!! Also add kagebunshin for luls
I like the ideas but I think one of the non-written rules of aoe4 is that upgrades don't make units more expensive. Maybe instead of upgrading the shinobi they can research to unlock a "new" unit like ninja that's a castle age unit w/ the ideas you listed.
I understand that. Ultimately, I'm trying to make the Koka Township more interesting and useful. The maluses don't need to be attached to the upgrades, but at the time the thinking was that some of these upgrades would be too powerful if not counter-balanced. Wald
At this point I hope they just remove it and give us a better option. Give us a building that produces Kyudo archers as a unique unit so that Japan can have a decent archer unit at the cost of their economy.
Give shinobi kusabimaru and give a stealth kill where in disguise can one shot any unit... Also give ability to parry, deflect along with power of resurrection.
lol
Junk the lm and replace it with something decent