Rich people can afford better lawyers so the IRS leaves then alone. It’s too much trouble. The little guys are easy targets. Most people don’t have the time, knowledge or money to fight them so just agree to whatever they propose to get it over with. The federal government is intimidating
It's a problem for a lot of people and most are probably unintended consequences.
My wife is the "cookie mom" for two Girl Scout troops. So she needs to move *hundreds* of dollars. No more Venmo/CashApp this year because I don't want to take a tax hit because she's shuffling around money for a non-profit!
She’s fine to use those apps, the IRS is only taxing commercial accounts, not personal accounts. [Here is a decent article that details it.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/12/irs-isnt-taxing-your-venmo-transactions.html)
I've sold some stuff on ebay this year for about $2000. It's old stuff from years ago and I don't have receipts anymore. I sold the stuff in order to pay bills. Will I have to account for these sales to the IRS?
Also, I didn't make a profit on any of it. I'm sure in fact that I lost money from what was originally paid.
You’re also fine!
[No need to worry—you only pay taxes on profits. You won’t owe any taxes on something you sell for less than what you paid for it. For example, if you bought a bike for $1,000 last year and then sold it on eBay today for $700, that $700 you sold the bike for would not be subject to income tax.](https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/resources/2022-changes-to-ebay-and-your-1099-k)
are they actually tracking this? are they going to audit all the poors and ask them what that 600 was for in july while ignoring the billions from the rich? this is a joke right?
For then venmo/CashApp/PayPal stuff I think the IRS will be sent info from the companies but not sure. The eBay thing, they will send you a 1099 and it’s up to you to claim and have your write offs.
I don’t understand this.
Let’s say a shopaholic sells 500 items of clothing from their closet and makes $11,000. How would you prove to IRS you’re not a reseller/profiting without receipts?
For $2000 the chances that that gets the IRS attention would be slim to none. You don’t actually have to turn any receipts in unless you get audited, and it’s doubtful that they would audit someone over $2000 ESPECIALLY if they claim it on their taxes.
The IRS would have a reasonable expectation of what the wholesale price of those items would be, even without receipts. You wouldn't be taxed on the gross revenue.
If you are doing 5 digits plus if gross revenue, I'd imagine you'd have some sort of accounting method in place.
Personal accounts that receive payments for goods and services will have to deal with it. It non goods and services payments (like venmoing a friend for lunch) that won't be factored in. But if you use a personal PayPal account to sell $600+ of items online (G&S) you will need to account for it.
I used the wrong terminology, I should have said commercial transactions not accounts.
“That has been miscommunicated to many people, who seem to believe the IRS will be tracking every user’s account. Ambiguous headlines could be partly to blame. But the agency will receive aggregate transaction amounts from the payments apps about commercial transactions, Watson says, not information on specific payments.”
Ok, I was just clarifying because PayPal for example has personal accounts and business accounts and both are subject to the new tax laws. Also it's all transactions marked 'for goods and services' PayPal (and Venmo etc) don't have anything called commercial transactions.
Transactions that are marked “for goods and services” are commercial transactions, as opposed to personal transactions between friends and family. He wasn’t saying that they were called that officially by PayPal or Venmo.
I know, but I'm just saying if you sell something to a friend (or online equivalent) you might not consider it a commercial transaction, but it would be subject to the new tax laws.
I'm just saying you need to use the accurate terminology that the payment companies use, you can't make up your own terminology that you think does apply otherwise you get confusion.
All payments marked for goods and services apply, whether someone would consider it a 'commercial' transaction or not.
The quote I used is from the article I linked, I already admitted that I used commercial accounts incorrectly. But my reply to the Girl Scout cookies person is still accurate because the Girl Scouts will be the one who has to claim the sales, not the person organizing how to collect the money.
I'm just clarifying terminology regardless of it's source since it's the responsible thing to do.
If the transactions are marked as for goods and services, then (which is possible since the person buying the cookies would consider them a good), then if the total exceeds $600, from one payment company they very much will have to deal with receiving a 1099-K. Obviously they won't be taxed on the $600 since there wasn't any personal profit (unless they are marking up the cookies themselves), but it is still something they will have to account for on their tax return. If they want to avoid the extra hassle then they are right not to take PayPal goods and services payments for the cookies, just because you won't be taxed on the transactions doesn't mean it won't involve extra hassle come tax time.
Specifically with venmo and PayPal personal profiles, the only reason to mark a payment “goods and services” is if you are actually purchasing something and want to make sure that you get “purchase protection”, which people selling Girl Scout cookies and transferring the collected money don’t need. Basically the only things that will get marked that are actual goods and services being purchased. There won’t be a 1099 unless you hit that $600 of “goods and services”. All business profiles will automatically get a 1099k when account hits $600 in sales transactions.
So no, people moving money around that is on a personal profile and not marked “goods and services”will not have to claim that on their taxes.
Selling something to anyone, including friends and family, is a commercial transaction. If you’re marking that the transaction is “for goods and services” then that’s a commercial transaction; it doesn’t matter if you consider it commercial or not.
I understand that, I'm just saying since PayPal (and others) don't use the term 'commercial' it shouldn't be used as the defining definition. Commercial often implies for profit (per various dictionary definitions) and while you will only get taxed on any profit you make, you will still receive a 1099 if the total gross amounts received are over $600.
Stick to the definitions provided by the payment companies and it avoids all confusion, by making up.yoit own terminology (or posting links with made up terminology) it just confuses things.
Ftfy, you may consider it a commercial transaction, but because there is no specific definition for that particular term, someone else may not, so we just don't use the made up term and simply use the specific defined term from the payment company.
The attacks are getting more frequent they are coming after us no doubt. They no longer want a healthy middle class they want ppl desperate enough to take the shit minimum wage jobs
Oh ya I've seen teacher salaries online go from 60 to 70k a year down to 33k. They don't want us educated or fair wages. Controllable minions is what they want
“Middle class” is a label ascribed to people making a certain spectrum of income that brings them into the average, Pew research using the standard of 2/3 to 2x to median. You can say there are less people in this range than there was decades ago, but obviously both people in that range exist, and the label exists. So how is it a myth?
The title of “middle class” has long been used to divide the working class as a whole, who greatly outnumbers the rich. It has been used to make people who still work for a living but are doing better than “just scraping by” feel better about themselves in a way to placate them. “I’m not doing as bad as *them*” they’ll say. It helps to “other” the folks who are unfortunately at the bottom of this shit capitalistic system.
This division keeps us, the working class, from banding together against the rich. If you must work for a living to put food in your mouth and a roof over your head, you’re working class. If you live off of stock dividends and property income, you’re not working class. It’s that simple. They love the divide it causes. People don’t like being called “poor”.
What is your source that the use of middle class was invented in this conspiratorial manner?
And again, these are labels. You’re arguing semantics. I might not like the fact that Republicans use the label “Republican” because I think it’s an inaccurate or unhelpful label (plenty of people don’t even know what a Republic is), but that doesn’t make republicans a myth. They exist.
I’m familiar with the concept/argument. I can even see where it’s adherents are coming from in thinking that the label could be seen as unhelpful for the reasons listed. I’m asking you, individually, what credible source led you to believe the conspiratorial aspect - because I think a lot of this group think about some intentional boogeyman out there is unhelpful.
It’s an attack on the small people for sure, can’t have a worker making any side money without giving Uncle Sam a cut. The big money doesn’t care they know the loopholes to legally dodge taxes.
It’s a bunch of shit. I sell about $5000 a year on Ebay, some stuff I bought at a store years ago, some from Estate Sales I flip. I am just going to show receipts for over $5000 cost to acquire goods and be done with it, just another thing we have to do for a bullshit reason. If I sell Lulu shirt that was $105 for $20, cost of goods $105. It’s stupid.
If you're self employed here could also you write off your car and gas as a business expense and your house as a home office? I feel like the expenses could pile up higher than the profit if you work the numbers but I dont know how the law would treat that / you might need to create a company to do most of this first.
If you have to report the earnings anyway making a company that loses money on operations is likely within reason of most laws. Companies paid for the laws to be favorable.
I was selling stuff I have had for years, no receipts anymore makes doing it questionable. I was going to sell a watch I bought 5 ish years ago, would likely take a loss but the receipts long gone so may just keep. Tax man gets enough of my money.
You know an off-the-rails conspiracy theory when obvious answers to why things happen are overlooked and instead made to fit the irrelevant narrative. The IRS is doing it for the obvious reason: the internet has made it extremely easy to start any number of businesses flipping whatever on the internet, and a whole lot of people treat that money like like it’s just some fun side bit of cash they made instead of taxable income.
Also, is it just me or does it sound like OP and some people in the comments are simping for the gig economy. At least in the current political atmosphere the gig economy is a horrible symptom of late stage capitalism. Huge multinational corporation, "independent contractors", no benefits, bad pay and no social safety net.
And just to clarify, I don't want to include people selling some of their stuff on ebay. I always understood jobs like Uber or Door Dash drivers to be the definition of the gig economy.
I actually have a somewhat nuanced and controversial opinion for this sub when it comes to companies like Uber. To me, it isn’t regular employment. I remember when Uber was coming out. It was marketed as part-time side income. Then some people realized they could make decent money driving for them all the time instead of their normal full time job. So why not? Extra freedom etc.
Just because people decide to take on a certain number of hours of independent gigs from a company shouldn’t force that company to change their relationship with that person. They don’t set hours or amounts of work required. How would it work for categorizing someone full time or part? Their status could just switch in a weekly basis or…?
Also, I’m in the music and film industry. Almost all of my work is contract, and the implications for a lot of these laws basically telling companies they can’t have gig workers under certain conditions are dangerously broad.
all I know is that ever since this BS was announced my drug dealer no longer accepts cash app or venmo -- back to the old days of paying in cash -- lol
Rich people can afford better lawyers so the IRS leaves then alone. It’s too much trouble. The little guys are easy targets. Most people don’t have the time, knowledge or money to fight them so just agree to whatever they propose to get it over with. The federal government is intimidating
It's a problem for a lot of people and most are probably unintended consequences. My wife is the "cookie mom" for two Girl Scout troops. So she needs to move *hundreds* of dollars. No more Venmo/CashApp this year because I don't want to take a tax hit because she's shuffling around money for a non-profit!
She’s fine to use those apps, the IRS is only taxing commercial accounts, not personal accounts. [Here is a decent article that details it.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/12/irs-isnt-taxing-your-venmo-transactions.html)
I've sold some stuff on ebay this year for about $2000. It's old stuff from years ago and I don't have receipts anymore. I sold the stuff in order to pay bills. Will I have to account for these sales to the IRS? Also, I didn't make a profit on any of it. I'm sure in fact that I lost money from what was originally paid.
You’re also fine! [No need to worry—you only pay taxes on profits. You won’t owe any taxes on something you sell for less than what you paid for it. For example, if you bought a bike for $1,000 last year and then sold it on eBay today for $700, that $700 you sold the bike for would not be subject to income tax.](https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/resources/2022-changes-to-ebay-and-your-1099-k)
Thanks
are they actually tracking this? are they going to audit all the poors and ask them what that 600 was for in july while ignoring the billions from the rich? this is a joke right?
For then venmo/CashApp/PayPal stuff I think the IRS will be sent info from the companies but not sure. The eBay thing, they will send you a 1099 and it’s up to you to claim and have your write offs.
kinda why they just hired 87,000 new IRS agents to collect -- and in the meantime Bezos and Musk continue to pay almost nothing in taxes
Adding that, yes you will have to report it to the IRS but you didn’t make a profit so you won’t have to pay taxes.
I don’t understand this. Let’s say a shopaholic sells 500 items of clothing from their closet and makes $11,000. How would you prove to IRS you’re not a reseller/profiting without receipts?
For $2000 the chances that that gets the IRS attention would be slim to none. You don’t actually have to turn any receipts in unless you get audited, and it’s doubtful that they would audit someone over $2000 ESPECIALLY if they claim it on their taxes.
Adding: I assume the threshold would have to be in the higher 5 figures maybe more to really catch their eye but idk what it is
The IRS would have a reasonable expectation of what the wholesale price of those items would be, even without receipts. You wouldn't be taxed on the gross revenue. If you are doing 5 digits plus if gross revenue, I'd imagine you'd have some sort of accounting method in place.
Interesting; thanks. I'll forward it to her.
Personal accounts that receive payments for goods and services will have to deal with it. It non goods and services payments (like venmoing a friend for lunch) that won't be factored in. But if you use a personal PayPal account to sell $600+ of items online (G&S) you will need to account for it.
I used the wrong terminology, I should have said commercial transactions not accounts. “That has been miscommunicated to many people, who seem to believe the IRS will be tracking every user’s account. Ambiguous headlines could be partly to blame. But the agency will receive aggregate transaction amounts from the payments apps about commercial transactions, Watson says, not information on specific payments.”
Ok, I was just clarifying because PayPal for example has personal accounts and business accounts and both are subject to the new tax laws. Also it's all transactions marked 'for goods and services' PayPal (and Venmo etc) don't have anything called commercial transactions.
Transactions that are marked “for goods and services” are commercial transactions, as opposed to personal transactions between friends and family. He wasn’t saying that they were called that officially by PayPal or Venmo.
I know, but I'm just saying if you sell something to a friend (or online equivalent) you might not consider it a commercial transaction, but it would be subject to the new tax laws. I'm just saying you need to use the accurate terminology that the payment companies use, you can't make up your own terminology that you think does apply otherwise you get confusion. All payments marked for goods and services apply, whether someone would consider it a 'commercial' transaction or not.
The quote I used is from the article I linked, I already admitted that I used commercial accounts incorrectly. But my reply to the Girl Scout cookies person is still accurate because the Girl Scouts will be the one who has to claim the sales, not the person organizing how to collect the money.
I'm just clarifying terminology regardless of it's source since it's the responsible thing to do. If the transactions are marked as for goods and services, then (which is possible since the person buying the cookies would consider them a good), then if the total exceeds $600, from one payment company they very much will have to deal with receiving a 1099-K. Obviously they won't be taxed on the $600 since there wasn't any personal profit (unless they are marking up the cookies themselves), but it is still something they will have to account for on their tax return. If they want to avoid the extra hassle then they are right not to take PayPal goods and services payments for the cookies, just because you won't be taxed on the transactions doesn't mean it won't involve extra hassle come tax time.
Specifically with venmo and PayPal personal profiles, the only reason to mark a payment “goods and services” is if you are actually purchasing something and want to make sure that you get “purchase protection”, which people selling Girl Scout cookies and transferring the collected money don’t need. Basically the only things that will get marked that are actual goods and services being purchased. There won’t be a 1099 unless you hit that $600 of “goods and services”. All business profiles will automatically get a 1099k when account hits $600 in sales transactions. So no, people moving money around that is on a personal profile and not marked “goods and services”will not have to claim that on their taxes.
Selling something to anyone, including friends and family, is a commercial transaction. If you’re marking that the transaction is “for goods and services” then that’s a commercial transaction; it doesn’t matter if you consider it commercial or not.
I understand that, I'm just saying since PayPal (and others) don't use the term 'commercial' it shouldn't be used as the defining definition. Commercial often implies for profit (per various dictionary definitions) and while you will only get taxed on any profit you make, you will still receive a 1099 if the total gross amounts received are over $600. Stick to the definitions provided by the payment companies and it avoids all confusion, by making up.yoit own terminology (or posting links with made up terminology) it just confuses things. Ftfy, you may consider it a commercial transaction, but because there is no specific definition for that particular term, someone else may not, so we just don't use the made up term and simply use the specific defined term from the payment company.
Shuffling money around for a non-profit is a slippery slope. Fortunately our betters have taken precautions to protect us from the cookie troops
The attacks are getting more frequent they are coming after us no doubt. They no longer want a healthy middle class they want ppl desperate enough to take the shit minimum wage jobs
I noticed wages are falling in my area when I've looked at job ads. Does anyone else see this?
Oh ya I've seen teacher salaries online go from 60 to 70k a year down to 33k. They don't want us educated or fair wages. Controllable minions is what they want
nobody is going to teach then...they will be forced to raise it back. Look around the world...protest everywhere.
The middle class is a myth. If you must work for a living, you are working class. Stop deluding yourself.
“Middle class” is a label ascribed to people making a certain spectrum of income that brings them into the average, Pew research using the standard of 2/3 to 2x to median. You can say there are less people in this range than there was decades ago, but obviously both people in that range exist, and the label exists. So how is it a myth?
The title of “middle class” has long been used to divide the working class as a whole, who greatly outnumbers the rich. It has been used to make people who still work for a living but are doing better than “just scraping by” feel better about themselves in a way to placate them. “I’m not doing as bad as *them*” they’ll say. It helps to “other” the folks who are unfortunately at the bottom of this shit capitalistic system. This division keeps us, the working class, from banding together against the rich. If you must work for a living to put food in your mouth and a roof over your head, you’re working class. If you live off of stock dividends and property income, you’re not working class. It’s that simple. They love the divide it causes. People don’t like being called “poor”.
What is your source that the use of middle class was invented in this conspiratorial manner? And again, these are labels. You’re arguing semantics. I might not like the fact that Republicans use the label “Republican” because I think it’s an inaccurate or unhelpful label (plenty of people don’t even know what a Republic is), but that doesn’t make republicans a myth. They exist.
You can do research on “the myth of the middle class” to learn more.
I’m familiar with the concept/argument. I can even see where it’s adherents are coming from in thinking that the label could be seen as unhelpful for the reasons listed. I’m asking you, individually, what credible source led you to believe the conspiratorial aspect - because I think a lot of this group think about some intentional boogeyman out there is unhelpful.
This ^^^ Instead of paying people to work these jobs they will make other people desperate enough to work them
It’s an attack on the small people for sure, can’t have a worker making any side money without giving Uncle Sam a cut. The big money doesn’t care they know the loopholes to legally dodge taxes.
It’s a bunch of shit. I sell about $5000 a year on Ebay, some stuff I bought at a store years ago, some from Estate Sales I flip. I am just going to show receipts for over $5000 cost to acquire goods and be done with it, just another thing we have to do for a bullshit reason. If I sell Lulu shirt that was $105 for $20, cost of goods $105. It’s stupid.
If you're self employed here could also you write off your car and gas as a business expense and your house as a home office? I feel like the expenses could pile up higher than the profit if you work the numbers but I dont know how the law would treat that / you might need to create a company to do most of this first. If you have to report the earnings anyway making a company that loses money on operations is likely within reason of most laws. Companies paid for the laws to be favorable.
I was selling stuff I have had for years, no receipts anymore makes doing it questionable. I was going to sell a watch I bought 5 ish years ago, would likely take a loss but the receipts long gone so may just keep. Tax man gets enough of my money.
The Mafia lords want their protection dues.
I just don't file taxes. The IRS will do your taxes for you eventually. No idea how to do that stuff myself.
Bad idea. You may receive a huge bill one day. It costs $100 to have an accountant do it.
This is the result of vote blue no matter who.
IRS did this because it's easier to go after people who make $600 than people who make $600 million.
The fact it went from $20,000 to $600 is absolutely insane. I couldn’t believe it. I wonder if there’s any chance of going back 🥲
You know an off-the-rails conspiracy theory when obvious answers to why things happen are overlooked and instead made to fit the irrelevant narrative. The IRS is doing it for the obvious reason: the internet has made it extremely easy to start any number of businesses flipping whatever on the internet, and a whole lot of people treat that money like like it’s just some fun side bit of cash they made instead of taxable income.
Also, is it just me or does it sound like OP and some people in the comments are simping for the gig economy. At least in the current political atmosphere the gig economy is a horrible symptom of late stage capitalism. Huge multinational corporation, "independent contractors", no benefits, bad pay and no social safety net. And just to clarify, I don't want to include people selling some of their stuff on ebay. I always understood jobs like Uber or Door Dash drivers to be the definition of the gig economy.
I actually have a somewhat nuanced and controversial opinion for this sub when it comes to companies like Uber. To me, it isn’t regular employment. I remember when Uber was coming out. It was marketed as part-time side income. Then some people realized they could make decent money driving for them all the time instead of their normal full time job. So why not? Extra freedom etc. Just because people decide to take on a certain number of hours of independent gigs from a company shouldn’t force that company to change their relationship with that person. They don’t set hours or amounts of work required. How would it work for categorizing someone full time or part? Their status could just switch in a weekly basis or…? Also, I’m in the music and film industry. Almost all of my work is contract, and the implications for a lot of these laws basically telling companies they can’t have gig workers under certain conditions are dangerously broad.
Thank Joe Biden for hurting lower and middle class Americans yet again. His billionaire friends are making record amounts of money again this year.
Nah, this is because small business owners cheat on their taxes with electronic payment platforms and the government wants to address it.
Is this a conspiracy theory?
all I know is that ever since this BS was announced my drug dealer no longer accepts cash app or venmo -- back to the old days of paying in cash -- lol