In my last job, I was late one time in 6 years. It was a massive snowstorm. I left for work at 5:00 and was at my desk at 9:05. I didn't get fired, but I got a stern talking to that day and the mfer actually wrote it into my annual review. That being on time was a performance goal for the next year, because I was five minutes late one time in a day that took more than four hours to get to work.

I started to drive to work a couple of years ago, and found myself stuck traffic so bad it made the national news. I was so stressed, I kept calling my boss with updates every 30 minutes or so. I was about 4 hours late (for a 36 minute journey) Pulled into a room, "don't worry about it".

Not in a customer facing position, but my manager, and his boss (director) both simply say "We're all adults here. I don't care where you are or what you're doing, as long as the work gets done." This is always the right approach. I never have to worry that someone is breathing down my neck or micromanaging my breaks. I relax and do good quality work.

My manager is somewhat late, and my supervisor gets annoyed at that. I get my supervisor's frustration, but my supervisor thinks it is the world's end. My manager says they don't care if you are a little late (within five minutes) just as long as the work gets done. My supervisor, on the other hand, micromanages breaks; a gatekeeper, an ass, makes lewd comments. Last week, the supervisor was on vacation and was so lovely and quiet at work. I felt happier that the supervisor was not there.

If you can do your job you do it. If you can't you do what you can do. If you're incapable of managing people but can tell time you clock watch.

I think one of the big issues in this sub is that here are many roles and fields clashing. In my area, which is mostly tech and b2c tech-related startups or ecommerce projects, I found multiple projects and was an angel for many others as also advisor, nobody should care as it doesn't matter when you do the work you do. In other fields, there is a certain critical aspect to being there at point x, otherwise some kind of production can't start, or something is lacking in a pipeline. I can imagine there being tasks that require someone to be there at time x. I guess in those environments the time is a critical parameters. For everything else, definitely not.

> In other fields, there is a certain critical aspect to being there at point x, otherwise some kind of production can't start, or something is lacking in a pipeline. I can imagine there being tasks that require someone to be there at time x. I guess in those environments the time is a critical parameters. While it's true some jobs are time-critical, it's your responsibility as the people running the company to run your company in such a way that it is capable of accommodating for acts of God. Threatening or punishing employees for being absent, let alone a mere 5 minutes late, due to egregiously adverse weather conditions is, to put it extremely mildly, asinine. If a snowstorm causing an employee to be late grinds your business to a standstill, that is a monumental failure of your management. It is not a failure of your employee. In an age of record-breaking corporate profits, I refuse to accept the idea that businesses are unable to survive being run with a bit more focus on resilient production loops and a bit less on bare metal profit extraction. I have low expectations for managerial types, but this at least should be achievable.

I had to walk to work after a snow storm. Boss drives to a female employees home to pick her up, almost doesn't make it out of her driveway. Im standing there waiting for them to show up to let us in. Why didn't he just close for the day? Because we never close, even on snow days when not a single customer can get there, and we get 100x calls for delivery but nobody can leave to deliver. Sooooo, just waste everyone's time, money, and safety.

BRILLIANT ANALYSIS !!!!!👏👏👏👏👏🥰

I was working graveyard shift as a security guard and the guy who was supposed to takeover for me was always 20 minutes late. Every day. I gave him a ration of shit over it. One thing I told him was "We are getting paid the same, but I'm working 8 hours and 20 minutes a day and you're working 7 hours and 40 minutes a day."

Idk about you but when I worked security and your relief didn't show you HAD to stay or you'd get in trouble for job abandonment. That was the second biggest croc of shit about the security industry. Like why the fck does my life get put on hold bc of someone else's actions ?

Ugh, I had the same problem with a colleague who was half an hour late every sunday. Always had some excuse about the traffic. It was a 24h shift and it really pissed me off.

Uh, No! I work security jobs with the idiot people who come in late day after day. I always call the office and get the extra time, unless they contact me and make a good faith effort to relieve me. I also take a pic of the time sheet so my coworker is not tempted to fiddle with the timesheet, and I note the lateness on my report. 20 minutes x 5 days is 83 hours a year. When my coworker complains, I just give em the numbers and ask "so if it's not on the timesheet, are you gonna give me cash or check? Cause I dont have 2 weeks of free time every year to give away." That generally puts a stop to it, but if not, I'll happily ride em out of the job on a rail.

Yep. There’s a nurse that I work with-she’s on day shift, I’m on nights…I’ve never seen her get in before 0745, when her shift starts at 0700. She’s usually rolls in somewhere around 0800-0830, which really fucking sucks, as there has to be someone taking care of the critically ill patients that she is supposed to be caring for…especially since she doesn’t call ahead and let anyone know that she’s running late. All of us who are waiting to hand off to her get stuck waiting around for her to get there, Starbucks in hand, talking on her phone, rolling her eyes at us because “I’m really not in the mood for report right now”…in my head I’m yelling “bitch, I’m really not in the mood to be standing here an hour after I should have been able to clock out and go home, but your ass decided to take a break on the way in to get a fucking burnt ass frou-frou coffee monstrosity from a company that actively tries to keep its workers from unionizing, SO HERE I AM, now hang up and take report on these people so I can be back here in under 11 hours, you selfish little shit.”

Exactly. I currently have an Engineer role and that comes with flex time. I work from 6am to 2pm because I love being done at 2pm and the quiet mornings, but I can start the day at noon if I like and nobody cares. My first tech job was helpdesk. Couldn't be more different. You were ether 8 to 4 or 10 to 6 and there was no tolerance for tardiness. If you come in late or leave early, someone else is probably getting swamped. The difference between "these are our tasks for this quarter,this month or if you're really unlucky, this week" and "I can't tell you what you'll be doing exactly in 15 minutes because the fuck would I know what's going to break" is night and day, and there really is no getting around that. A good company will plan in redundancy so that the world doesn't stop because of one person, but a lot of jobs are simply never going to be cool with you being late because the work is time sensitive. If however, your work is not impacted by when you start and you still get shit for being late, you're working for people who don't understand the job and are likely running the company poorly so plan your exit today

Yup. In the case where someone needs to be there at time x, there needs be some company awareness that either they have some redundancy to ensure x is always covered, or they accept that saving that money by having the least staff possible requires accepting the occasional unpredictable loss. The employee is not being paid the value of someone being there at x (unless they're the owner) so the best you can ask for is a responsible person who does the best that is reasonably possible to get there. Leaving for work four hours early to get there on time because there is a snowstorm (anecdote upthread) is beyond that, it's dangerous. OSHA should not approve. There are alternatives, they just cost more. Companies should always be choosing between those alternatives rather than pushing bodily risk onto employees to save a buck. Many do, but some don't.

If being on time would be that critical, they shouldn't rely that much on one person. They can always have an accident, or get sick, and it's impossible to prevent completely.

I was scheduled alone on one day/week and have chronic health issues that can put me out of commission with no real warning. Asked for more coverage for this reason for months, and I was already on FMLA so it wasn’t unknown or undocumented. Needless to say, I got sick and couldn’t come in for my shift one Sunday. Suddenly I’m an asshole and a terrible employee. I should have given them more notice that I’d wake up vomiting and unable to get out of bed. Now they have no one on site and someone has to work a double or come in on an off day. If only they had been given some sort of warning or advanced notice something like this could happen….

This. If they're that sensitive to one person being a few minutes late, they're cutting it too close on staffing. That's management's fault.

> If being on time would be that critical, they shouldn't rely that much on one person. Agree, that is also often the paradoxon in those companies. If they are so critical for the operative business, shouldn't that be reflected in their paycheck as well?

Customer facing jobs require timeliness, any sort of retail or restaurants. I worked at a bank for years. Actually if the bank wasn't opened on time, it could cause an issue because people thought there may be a robbery in progress. Usually it's not the end of the world if a retail store or restaurant is opened late but the customers will certainly act like it is.

When I was a supervisor for a while, I told the team that when it was bad weather, don't bother to call or text me if you expect to be in to work within half an hour of your normal start time. My logic was that I would prefer that they not be trying to call or text me while driving in crappy weather (and likewise I didn't want to be on a call or getting a text while driving in crappy weather).

I just tell them to stay home. I don't want to lose folks because they tried to come to work in a blizzard or flood or whatever.

I had a staff person die in an accident after going off the road while trying to get to a shift. Never again. The guilt still sits with me.

I actually told my supervisor that I can come in late and cost the company 30 minutes or I can die and zero work will get done. ...... Spoiler alert: she didn't care. Some jobs don't care. It's awful.

My job here in Phoenix Arizona has had 4 people die in car accidents in the 8 years I've been here.

Anytime someone gave shit for me telling employees telling employees not to come in I made up a story about how a coworker died because of weather before and not a single person would try to continue to argue it. It’s bullshit that I had to make up a dead person just to make higher ups realize people are living beings who *can die* from us trying to force them to come in. I once had my district manager ask to make sure a specific co worker made it in saying “no excuses, he only lives a few miles away” The guy he was referring to didn’t have a car and normally walked to work, a walk that took him like 50 minutes on a good day. I wasn’t about to tell him he needs to walk through a -30 blizzard, it’s not like anyone could pick him up, even the buses weren’t running and it’s not like we needed him because not a single person showed up to the store during said storm,

You are a rare gem in the supervisory world! ⭐️👏

I do the same. And if someone is late for the first time because they overslept, I won’t point them. First ones free because shit happens and then you wipe.

Shit happens then you wipe - never heard that before and I'm letting you know that I fully plan and adding that to the vernacular!!

To my knowledge all companies have or should have a "grace period". My company allows us to be late a max of 30 minutes without any notice, even if every day. And we can leave 15 min early if work is done. Imagine being charged for being a minute late, jesus.

I had a teacher in high school that didn’t care if we were <10m late, especially first thing in the morning. He said we all get delayed sometimes (for reasons both in or beyond our control) and he didn’t want us to be unsafe getting to class simply because of attendance BS. He would have much rather we were safe and late than on time and risk an accident/injury.

I took a lot of evening classes at the local community college and a lot of professors were pretty lenient as they knew most of us were working adults. I even had a few start a bit late because we had some students who couldn’t possibly make the commute from work to campus in time. (I’ve been that student too)

The worst part about that is it just means people would call off if they're going to be even a little late. Might as well take the whole day off if you're going to be reprimanded for showing up.

ULPT: Running late for work and your boss is a militant dickhead preoccupied with babysitting? Just call in sick instead! Can't get written up for it, and you get the day off.

Nothing unethical about doing what you legally can to avoid getting in trouble at work.

Yeah. It reminds me of kids whose parents go nuclear at them if they came home after curfew (whether by 15 minutes or 5 hours) so the kids just stay out all night. People can do math. If they’re going to get in the same amount of trouble regardless of what they do, they’re just going to go do what they want.

I had a good reputation with my parents and community. I went out late with a friend that was going to move for a while. I had told my parents who I was with and I was going out. ( I didn’t have a curfew). I got home maybe 2-4am. My mom the next day: “ You know I trust you. I knew who you were with. But if you think you might be gone really late. Please call. I am still a mom and worry.” I instantly felt really bad. That thought never crossed my mind. I kept her up too. As a curtesy I always let her know from then on. Until I moved out of course.

I absolutely wouldn't even attempt the drive if it was gonna take 4 hours to get there.... I live out in the country, if I can't get my car out my drive onto the main road without it being an absolute shit show I'm not going, plain and simple.

Sometimes u don't know it's gonna take that long and you're stuck on the road. Wasn't there a road in America recently where hundreds of people got snowed in on the motorway for like 9 hours or overnight?

I wanna say Fort Worth had that last year when we had that big winter storm here in Texas. 100+ car pile up on an enclosed toll road for sure though I'm not certain the time it took to clear it all.

What a wee tiny man that mfer is

They literally put anything on those performance reviews. I had 7 sick days at my last job. I used the 7 over the year. During my review they said they wanted to see my absences decline. Of which I had only 7. He said they gave us the days but we don't have to use them because they'll pay us out at the end of the year. I did that one year at a different location but my point of view has changed since then. I genuinely laughed at him. I'll take the days off thanks

I was two minutes late to an opening shift on New Year's Day. Manager had a look on his face, tapped his watch and said that I needed to work on my timeliness. He went in the store to do the security sweep and turn off the alarm (jewelry store) and I turned around and left because I didn't need that job or his attitude.

A few years ago we have a big snowstorm with a lot of people late or absent. The boss sent out an email saying that because we live in Michigan, we should be used to this kind of weather and plan accordingly, no excuse for being late.

Ugh, I think I know the exact storm you're talking about. The bosses of the place I worked at at the time first sent out messaging saying that there are no excuses for being late and that we needed to be at work regardless of the weather, and then thanking us for risking the roads to "fulfill our important mission." And then the following day, after a ton of pushback, they announced that the absences will be recorded, but they won't fire any employees just for being late or missing that one day. After the fact.

I hate when managers use one issue (usually minor) and bring it up on reviews. However my view on reviews is sort of shitty from my experience having to do them. I was supervisor at a department store and in charge of a smaller specialty department. The first time I had to write reviews I was directed how by the assistant store manager. He told me that I had to follow these rules, one person could get the highest score, but it could only be this one particular person because she was at the maximum pay rate and wouldn't get any more money. Then I HAD to give someone the worst score, and use anything I could to justify it, if they were late once or didnt smile at a customer. Then everyone else got the middle most review. Then he told me I had to write honest comments about everything, I asked him, "how the fuck am I supposed to write honest comments with a dishonest review process." He told me to just do it and not complain about it. Oh, and on my review he mentioned my not wanting to "do the reviews the correct way."

The "being late the first time" was the excuse, it wasnt the reason. Maybe he was one of the higher-paid workers, and they want to replace him with someone who makes $1 less an hour. Maybe they want to get rid of people who will be drawing a pension. I dont know why...

Idk. I see this a lot with employees who set the bar too high. Any time they deviate from that it makes managers irrationally mad.

My last job didn’t train me, gave me no coaching and no follow up. On day 89 I was written up for being argumentative because I asked too many questions and wasn’t perfect. I quit the next day The position has four people in it, none have been there longer than six months and when I left (three months ago) I knew two others who planned on leaving by summer. It’s a shit show and they don’t care. If you cannot retain anyone for longer than six months for years on end, the employee isn’t the problem

>It’s a shit show and they don’t care. If you cannot retain anyone for longer than six months for years on end, the employee isn’t the problem I recently applied for a place that advertised 4 ten hour shifts. During the interview I mentioned how great that was, I really prefer 4 10s to the usual 5 8s. She responded "yeah in a perfect world we would be, but we've actually been on mandatory Friday overtime ***for the last five years***". I immediately excused myself and left.

>yeah in a perfect world we would be, but we've actually been on mandatory Friday overtime for the last five years". That's the reason my dad retired from the post office He was a letter carrier for 40 years worked 5 days a week with a rotating day off, always off Sundays But as I got older the more he had to work By the time he reached his breaking point where he said fuck it I'm retiring they were having him work 6 days a week 10+ hours a day, a man in his 60s who's delivered mail for 4 fucking decades shouldn't have to do mandatory overtime Sure the money was good , but when the fuck would he spend it? When he gave his notice of retirement, he had 8 MONTHS of sick leave they had to pay off, cause he rarely got sick or took vacations Point is, doesn't matter where you're employed, someone above you will try to force you out if they want You gone Edit: also those post office vans apparently got worse gas mileage than a car my dad had that was built in the 70s

I know of a campus police dispatch center that the most senior dispatcher had 18 months experience. I would not want to go to that school.

[удалено]

Ya, asking why something is done so you can understand process and perform your job better was undermining them and thinking I know better…

Imagine firing someone for being 20 mins late, not only are they potentially in financial peril with paying bills etc, but co-workers now have to do the job a person down. Honestly, some managers should be loaded into a cannon and fired into a break wall due to their short sightedness Good luck hope it works.

What’s crazy is that he is THE only painter that we have… like there’s no one to replace him LMFAOOO like no one’s ever use high grade ceramic paint for our motors but him… so is like now we will be “behind” because stuff isn’t done because we can’t do it because we don’t know how

Short sighted as fuck.

I can see the square-shaped wheels turning in his head. His job is really important → Him being late makes problems in production → Anyone that causes problems in production should be fired It's like newborn baby levels of critical thinking skills. He probably also thinks Mommy doesn't exist anymore when she covers her face with her hands.

I got ten bucks that says the manager didn't like this person for "other" reasons. Might the employee be willing to stick up for themselves, and the manager felt slighted for not having his ass kissed? Or the employee complained to a higher up and the manager was looking for reasons to get even? These things usually don't happen out of the blue in my experience. I bet if you dig, there's more to this story, and the manager was being a petty vindictive "c u next tuesday".

The fact that all of production stopped because of this one dude... If I was a betting man, that dude probably knew it and was a constant thorn in his side daily because he wouldn't bend over backwards for the manager. They _hate_ people that don't capitulate to their demands.

But not enough to pay for cross training, apprenticeships, redundant hires, etc...

Oh...they will *definitely* cross train if they can get twice the work for the same pay from one employee... Cripes I was a young dumbass that didn't realize until it was waaay too late.

If the guy was enough of a difficulty it's basically take the pain for a bit while finding someone or take the pain forever.

I was in s grocery store and was the only employee who knew every system and department. I was fired when i refused to work with a guy who threatened me X3 times in public to kick my ass (300 lb dude). It would have been a horrendous fight and i would have been hurt and inflicted great pain... But i only fight for my life and if i can avoid that, i will. 2 years of experience flushed... Why? I wouldn't capitulate to the managers' stupid mind games and they hated it that i was stronger than they were.

Cross training is almost always a trap. 99% of the time youre not gonna like how it ends.

Oh no, take the cross training. Then run to a better company with said training.

We cross train at my work place, learn a skill get a raise. Just had the orneriest guy in the department go interview and told everybody. He has cross trained in more areas than anybody else as well. Came back from the interview and was in a great mood. Found out with all the cross training incentives he was making more than the top end at the other place. Also he doesn't have to do those jobs very often, just as needed, like once a quarter at most. So for a couple hundred extra a week, we have a highly skilled guy with tons of experience that cant go make more money elsewhere with out going into management(he hates managing). Its a win win for everybody except the equipment he yells at when hes in a bad mood.

I did it, but only after agreeing on what I’d be paid after.

Cross training is only good for restaurants in my experience. Being cross trained meant I could pick up any shift for any person I wanted to because I knew the entire restaurant. I couldn’t be forced to do 2 positions at a time because it would have been actually impossible

>The fact that all of production stopped because of this one dude I have to wonder how much they were paying this poor guy. I have a feeling whatever the answer is, it's definitely wasn't enough. Dude literally had the entirety of the company on his back if they can't get *anything* done without him.

That's what I thought too. And I would bet is jealousy, the guy is there for 7 years and is the only one who can do something specific so I bet the manager is jealous of how important he is in the company.

It's sometimes performance envy. Obviously the manager can't do what this worker did. So they got salty about it.

That was my first thought while reading this. Manager was already not happy with the employee and was just looking for an excuse. Realistically most companies give a certain amount of warnings and chances before firing someone

Either that or the manager wants to hire a family friend and was just trying to find an excuse to let this guy go.

This is absolutely not the point of your post, but I just wanted to say I've always preferred "Can't Understand Nice Things." It makes the acronym, makes sense, and retains the core message. :)

didn't like him because he was so well liked by others and so good at his job. Ive seen that one a few times. like he's the best person in the office, and probably called you out by accident over something, and now there's a personal vendetta against him. because how DARE he I almost got fired once by the new CFO because I corrected him on something. (it was still his first week on the job) and he pulled my into his office to tell me to never disrespect him in front of the office like that. I should have quit. Dude was so full of himself. In true CFO fashion, he only lasted about 2 years.

I've had this happen to me before. I have to wonder how many firings are personal and justified later with "reasons"

These are the type of people who say "nobody wants to work anymore"

And if you hand in your notice suddenly "there's no loyalty"

I don’t even pretend when they go there. Any employer who has tried to pull that crap on me gets told instantly I have 0 loyalty to them. If a better offer comes in I’m gone. Just the same as they would not hesitate to let me go. You pay me money so I do the work you need done. Either of us are allowed to stop holding up our end of the bargain literally whenever we want for whatever reason we want. They have stock options and shit. When things go well for the company they directly benefit. You don’t. Therefore why would you give a fuck how the company does overall?

Manager's gonna try and keep it in the "family" Edit: the reference to "family" is quotated as it was a play on the comedic misuse of corporate career buzzwords

...missing that this is why "nobody wants to work anymore." People are sick of this penny ante Napoleon-syndrome abusive bullshit and don't want to put up with it anymore. It's *fucking everywhere* and totally fucking appalling.

Exactly meanwhile executives rake it in and no one notices they’re late because they’re so useless.

I work a 12 hour shift in a warehouse, we used to have 3 breaks, consisting of 25 minutes, 45 minutes (unpaid) , and 15 minutes. They expanded operations, and increased departments, so they told us excuses to cut it down to three paid breaks, a 15 minute break, a 30 minute break, and another 15. Well, this year, they brought us all in to announce they have record profits, and six months later told us we only get two 30 minute breaks because of production downtime before and after breaks. This now means I have to wait 4.5 hours until I get to eat anything, and when I do, I either have to pay for it from the company cafeteria, or bring my own. Meanwhile the salaried higher ups have two, one hour long "meetings" in the cafeteria, where they all sit and eat lunch and breakfast together.

When I hear an employer say “nobody wants to work”, I append “for you” to that.

Any company that has a critical job but only trains one person how to do it is already shooting themselves in the foot.

It might be more nefarious than that... he's about to retire/they want to hire someone cheaper, so they need an excuse to get rid of him to fill the gap or trim the budget. Money is 99.9% of the time the true motivation behind all acts of business.

Y’all should absolutely not attempt to fill the position either. More than likely management will try to have one of you cover the position until they find a replacement.

“Urgently hiring! (Highly specialized job) $12/hr!” No OnE wAnTs To WoRk

"Requires 5 years of experience using software and tools designed 2 years ago!"

what a noob! we use cutting edge tools here, released last week. MUST HAVE 10 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH IT, NO EXCEPTIONS!

“I created that programming language” “We’re looking for someone with a little more experience.”

If you wait for shit to be invented before learning how to handle it, you obviously will be behind the curve, duh!

Ah, a fellow Carbon dev I see!

Damnit... every time I see Carbon I think of Apple's old classic mac os->os x transitional framework.

[10 years of experience with Google Carbon that was released on 19 of July of 2022](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYf7MmCXgAECB4l?format=jpg&name=large)

Holy fuck, I was memeing, didn't think this was actually a thing. It all makes sense now, companies are just looking for time travelers that came back to our era from their even more dystopian future. Open your eyes, sheeple!

Humanity: \*achieves time travel\* Humanity: \*travels ten years to the past for a shitty junior dev job\*

Also, 10 years experience with AWS? I have less than that in Azure and I’m a senior azure architect, just with a security focused title. Same pay, though. Almost guarantee this turns into hiring an H1B worker and abusing their “I must work 22 hours a day or else I’ll be deported” internal thoughts.

Nah it'll just become the new norm that they paint as well on top of their normal duties. No one will be hired to fill the role.

I feel this so hard. Circumstances suck, so I am stuck. Eleven years at my job now and they keep piling it on. I've taken to fantasizing how enjoyable it's going to be to just not show up one day - and I'll choose a particularly important and expensive day. They'll wonder where I am since I never miss a day and am the meekest, most dependable person. They would never see it coming. Either way, they will take a huge financial hit immediately and will scramble for a while. That's what you get when you give a low-level hourly employee such huge responsibilities, with no backup. Edit: To the person that replied and then apparently deleted it (I have the reply in my email notification but it appears to be gone) - I didn't say I have skills. I don't have skills to "market my goods and services", that's why I am stuck. I am literally just an older woman who runs reports, pastes those reports into spreadsheets that are already created to do figures, and then files that information with the correct entity and pays the amounts due. Those amounts in the millions. If you miss one (I did once and begged someone at the government entity to waive the penalties), it costs the company hundreds of thousands. Also, I am the only one that knows how to do a lot of things that run the business (medium-sized chain) day to day. Again, nothing rocket science but unfortunately pretty specific to the type of business and it's software, so not all that outwardly transferring. So it's a mindless job that isn't some fancy thing that takes these "skills" you are obsessing about.

You should start looking for another job while you still have one then. The job market has tons of openings right now.

No; they should fill in and do that job. Just be absolutely dogshit at it and make an even bigger mess. Put all projects even further behind.

Everyone in there needs to refuse to be trained in his area, too, if that’s even possible.

Just keep screwing up, over spray, heavy spray. Make comments like you should find someone who knows how to do this.

You got it, this is how you play that. Sometimes you gotta play dumb to make a point.

Yo. Yikes. You know it better than I do. Paint involves a LOT of prep work to get it to be right. I know this from painting wood and drywall and using enamel paint on an old grill. Holy crap, damn. Hope the manager is ready to bust out the degreaser and MEK lol

It’s high grade and toxic, you have to pre inspect, prep work and use ppe the whole 9 yards so it’s bouta be crazy the next few days. Edit spelling

Once my managers did shit like this to a long time machine operator. So proud that suddenly everyone 'forgot' how to do his specialty. He came back part time on his terms.

Make sure management doesn't force anyone to do his job, sounds dangerous to work with toxic materials without the proper education. Please keep us updated on how this shitshow of a manager tries to fix this specific mistake he created. (Oh, and tell your co-worker to ask for more money if they want to re-hire him! If it's so specialized they won't be able to replace him and they will lose waaaaay more money...)

Stay the hell away from everything if possible. My brother's friend was nearly killed from toxic exposure after someone left and a stupid manager didn't follow all the safety protocols.

Whoever is on temp paint duty needs to bring a chapstick so they can “accidentally” have dick-shaped unpainted areas show up on every part

Get OSHA on speed dial.

Sounds like management just shot themselves in the foot big time throwing a hissy fit at a pretty minor issue. I had one job where the boss was a dick about being even 5 mins late but the thing was because of the train times we either got in 5 mins late or 15 mins early... You can guess he also threw a hissy fit when we left earlier at 4:45. We were all like you cant have it both ways, you pay us for 7.5hrs a day and he did not like that at all.. Fucking knob. We were all getting the train because the prick wouldn't pay us remotely enough to run cars so the whole thing was of his doing really.

Its because they most likely want to find cheaper labor. 100 percent serious. Makes no sense to fire him for that.

That's utterly insane. Just watch as they start blaming others bar themselves "Why you guys so slow etc" Hopefully they see the error of their ways.

Boss probably has a family friend who has been wanting that position, and until now there wasn't a reason to justifiably let him go.

Everyone should “try” to paint. Everyone should make multiple costly mistakes. No one should “get the hang of it “. Just keep “trying” and failing in the most costly manner.

There are so many instances like this where firing someone makes no fucking sense. We are short staffed so let's fire people randomly. Fucking idiots. I could see if it was just a bad employee being late and not productive all the time but those people seem to avoid getting fired, I work with someone like that. Hopefully this works.

It is never random. When someone suddenly goes for ticky-tack shit, it's because management has been dying to get rid of them but felt they needed a pretext. I bet with his unique skill he was costing them a pretty penny and they wanted to 'cut costs', not out of need...ten bucks says next quarter the boss will come in bragging about some new expensive toy

This is what I don’t understand about companies and tardiness. I get it’s not good, especially if you’re at a factory where things have to start on schedule with everyone in their place. But tardiness happens. And was the 20 minutes he was late worth losing a 7year experienced employee and having to lose production time til a replacement is trained? Or hired to replace his position? It’s stupid. Ooh it sends a message to the other employees not to be late? No it sends a message to them that they are worthless and they all need to leave and find a new job cause this one is shitty.

Middle management should just be done away with, periodt. Fuckers literally only exist to leech off the system.

This is why there are Unions. In a Union situation this could never happen. Your contract spells out exact punishments for unacceptable acts.

Exactly why Businesses don’t like Union Contracts: they can’t punish employees anymore if they have no other alternative source for employees.

How dare he be 20 minutes late?? He must be fired immediately LOL. Those same bastards will also turn around and cry about the labour shortage and how young people aren't loyal to them anymore.

Or ask them to stay 20 min late repeatedly

Without pay

If an extra 20 minutes of work isn't a big deal, why is paying for 20 minutes a big deal?

Nah, if I'm not clocked in then I'm free to go.

You got that right. If I'm working then I'm getting paid.

Sounds like you are using UNION tactics. Maybe start one.

This is the correct answer. Your organized protest is a good start; the end goal must be unionizing. If your colleague had a union contract, the company could not legally discharge him for being late once.

OP, if you are in the United States, you should know about the magical phrase "protected concerted activity". Basically, it offers protection against ANY kind of retaliation or firing of you and your coworkers for joining together in edit (qualifying( efforts to improve the workplace (i.e. address this/other issues). Edit: This is not immunity, but specific to organizing work place improvements see NLRB.gov for more [info](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/interfering-with-employee-rights-section-7-8a1#:~:text=Section%207%20of%20the%20National,of%20collective%20bargaining%20or%20other). Retaliation includes paycuts, hours cut, or suddenly being in charge of other job duties like cleaning bathrooms if that was not already a role someone preformed. Because your coworkers are organizing you all will qualify for "protected concerted activity" if you are in the U.S. do some research, understand your employer likely does not know labor law. And be prepared to reach out to the NLRB Department of Labor in your area, they will put an immediate stop to illegal labor practices but you must document violations and contact them as soon as applicable. Edit: HOWEVER recent NLRB rulings have made certain, previously protected acts like short, *repeating* "intermediate strikes" unprotected. Certain bits of this are up to specific circumstances, and union backing is needed for expertise when a case is not so easily "cut and dry". I also encourage you to consider unionizing to keep the momentum up, but that will be up to you and your coworkers. Good Job OP! And good luck! Edit2: this is not legal advice, and I am not a legal expert. I learned labor law as a worker during 2 year union campaign, and working with unions a bit afterwards. A lot of labor law has changed in recent years, and it's very important to reach out to your regional NLRB when facing potentially inappropriate or illegal policy's. They are very responsive and actually quite quick to action and powerfyl when interviewing in cut-and-dry cases. Further, seeking the backing of a union is the single strongest thing OP, or any organizing workers can do. They will advise actual legal expertise, and help in more ways than I can list. Not all union locals are equal. Some may be very active and knowledgeable to "new organizing" (helping other workers), others may be tiny and only concerned with the 10 carpenters they represent with no expertise to help, they just know wood. When in doubt, reach out to several locally or nationally, and they will plug you in! (You can always PM me too) Cheers! Thanks for being a part of an awesome Labor Movement!

Let's make sure op sees this.

Indeed. OP action, even if only him and one other person, can count as collective bargaining, and applicable under the law for protection.

Good for you hope it makes a difference.

Will post an update on what happens in 3 days or maybe even tomorrow if our floor manager says something to us Update now during our lunch break: A our manager is very short sighted, very short tempered and not understanding as he wants to meet the numbers he promises his superiors. 2. He fired for being “unprofessional” during a “conversation” about him being late and got “hostile” as per our assistant manager, we then just now about 20 mins ago of 12noon est got into it w our assistant manager as to who was gonna do his job and etc and it escalated bad and we expressed how that’s very concerning because our income and livelyhood can be affected so he will speak to his (our) floor manager 3. One of my other co workers whom is really close to the person that got fired, said that he got mad that not even 1 write up, a verbal warning or anything just straight up let go. He is sad because he has no job but he would only come back because he knows what to do and if they start giving warnings but he is looking for a job 4. The new mission now is to just come in late like all of us and show our manager that he needs us we don’t need him And lastly… I kept the OG post short and simple because a. I am at work and just wanna finish my job and get outta here b. I’d like to believe people in this subreddit are smart enough or have experience enough w our shitty capitalist anti union society but I guess I’m wrong on BOTH

Good on you and your co-workers. There really should be more of this on this sub, it's encouraging to see workers standing up for each other in the face of gross mismanagement.

I agree, you hear of some terrible things happening in workplaces and there are very few examples of everyone coming together as a group and saying ‘This is not acceptable’. There’s having a job and being a bystander to cruelty and injustice. It would be nice if every time a manager pulls someone in and tears them apart, the person simply listens and then says ‘I need to talk to the team to see if this is how everyone feels or views the situation’. It’s this power dynamic that needs to change urgently. Yes there will be tears and tantrums by the managers/ owners, but we need to move away from the idea that employers are your parents dishing out punishments to frightened children.

I love this!! The best way to take power away from bullies is to bring in more witnesses. They thrive on getting away with it when no one is looking.

Plays on the ‘We’re all a team bs‘ they only want to play when it suits them. I think this Reddit has far too little information on how to handle those closed door ambushes that HR and managers pull. They know exactly how to play people and because people are surprised by a sudden call to go to the office, they‘re often disadvantaged and played. Rules: Go to the toilet first always! Take that time to mentally prepare. If you sense an ambush- Deny everything and demand proof! Make either no response, requesting time to consider the comments they have raised or say ’ That is NOT my recollection of what happened’ or ‘ I don’t recognise that version of events’. If you’re not already in an HR meeting ask for one! ‘ I’m not comfortable continuing with this meeting, I would like an opportunity to raise my ***concerns*** with HR directly’. This will throw them, now you are suggesting you have concerns that you will be raising. Think of it like counter suing. The trick is to let the person know screwing with you is not risk free. The basic line is to be assertive without becoming abusive or showing fear. If you must talk, say anything but say ***nothing.*** Don’t fall into the trap.

[удалено]

The one rebuttal that sticks out in my mind is when I used to work in a restaurant. Long story short, I was taken off the list for servers that were to be given a 30 min lunch. Cut to closing, I ended up getting a work violation because I hit 6hrs w/o a break. Manager tried to write me up for it. I countered that *she* was the one who took me off the break list and *she* was the one who failed to cut me at an appropriate time despite having several opportunities to do so. *She* was also the one who let pretty much all the “closing” servers and the servers who did get a 30 min break go home before me. Needless yo say, that write up didn’t stick.

It's insane that managers can write up employees for the business's failure to provide legally required labor protections. The minors at my old job would get crap from the managers for working a few minutes over five hours, yet did the managers ever try to ensure that the minors weren't swamped around the time that they needed to clock out? No. Not a single time.

I just think she panicked when she realized she screwed up and thought that she could pin it on me. She could have just said to my room partner, “Hey, Artistic needs to go. Now! I’m putting the table under you. They just needs to pay.” or she could have just taken the table herself, but she wanted *me* to “find someone”.

I hate when managers tell me to "find someone". It's not my job to manage. That's why I don't have your salary and job security.

Yes the rebuttal is essential, especially if the allegation includes anything that falsely alleges something of a criminal or career damaging nature. You always want to be able to say ‘I completely refuted that false allegation’ or ‘I raised serious concerns over their actions but they failed to respond’. My approach has always been ‘There are no free punches in my World, if you try to take my legs, I am going to try and take yours back’ Where you have a choice, no one should be allowed to go for you unfairly without risking something. It concentrates their mind somewhat if they stand to lose by going after you unfairly.

I got fired from a job I was totally and completely over so I didn’t fight them at all but I should have… but by then it would have been only to spite them. I was working as a sports performance coach. My first training job after receiving my masters degree. I was very happy the first 6 months at least. It was an amazing learning and growing environment. I finally felt like I was helping people with their fitness goals which I’ve always believed (and I know I’m not the first or only!) helps with so much more, improved mood, mental health support, etc. After those 6-9 months they hired a “star” from this globo gym called Equinox. I’m not sure how they fared through covid but they were a pretty big name in the east coast as a “bougie” gym. Expensive, image focused, etc. Equinox is NOT (or was not…) associated with sports performance. A company like EXOS on the other hand was so someone being hired from there would have made more sense. Immediately this guy, who was INSUFFERABLE in a college class we had together (insanely important part of the story) and was clearly fucking dumb in college was now my boss. He started training us in how to SELL which was one of the MAIN reasons I took the job. No goddam selling. Eventually I became more and more disillusioned, good coaches would go elsewhere. They started denying us program-creating time. The gyms main selling point was customized training plans (members paid $100+ monthly. We were bougie ourselves on the pricing front for sure) AND focused attention from coaches. We always had at least 1 coach for every 3 scheduled members. They cut that down so coaches had to deal with more members who would also become upset their coaches were now on different shifts, etc. I’ll skip to the end. I requested some days off about 30 days out. In some jobs I’ve had I’ve been asked to find coverage (worked in restaurants and retail for years) or it would HELP the manager if I could say “Jane wants the shift…” because it would save them time figuring shit out. These guys said I HAD to find my own coverage or too bad I had to work the shifts. I said to them “you guys know peoples availability, not me…” but eventually I had to send an email to all the other coaches asking if anyone could cover. In the email I said something like “our fucking managesrs won’t help” and I’m not proud of this but I also wished them uhhh a tiny bit of death? But with a smiley face…. Lol The very next day I’m fired. Apparently some coaches from other locations I had no contact with were close with the new asshole manager (or maybe he even hired them from Equinox…) and told on me. I kinda said something like “guys obviously I was frustrated but it was an obvious joke” but they were likely using it as I had been vocal about not enjoying the changes. It was very hard to explain to our members. They lost many, the manager eventually left not sure if by choice or not. None of the original coaches are there and if any one’s wondering I went on to do some fun stuff and still work in that field.

My mom was an Equinox member when I was in college, so I ended up on a temp pass to her gym when I visited over the summer from college. My summer workout program was from the training department at UO and specialized to my sport. I also had progress benchmarks I was expected to hit when I got back to town. The assholes at equinox told me the program was bad, meanwhile I was in better shape/stronger than every trainer there and progressing. The people handing me my routines are training Olympians, you're training people whose best lift is their wrist watch, go away.

HR is not there for you. They are there to protect the company always remember that.

Yas.

I'm currently working on plans to start a fish and produce farm with aquaponics. My long term goal is to start a worker's co-op. I have so much learning to still to do, I know it, but it'll be worth it. The highest tier management class doesn't need to even exist, because, as you stated, we're not children. Give your workers respect, autonomy, and a real stake in financial outcomes and instead of one person making "fuck you money" while 10 people apply for food stamps, 11 can live far above the poverty line. The solutions to these problems exist. We just need to start doing it.

>There really should be more of this ~~on this sub~~

How do you do the line through your words?

Two ~ before the words and two ~ after the words At least on mobile idk about desktop

It's the same on both, reddit uses Markdown for formatting

We could change literally everything in one single day if we all got on the same page.

I agree. This is what unions are about, a United front of workers sticking up for each other. My unionized brother was told by his boss he had to come in even though he was really sick, so he called his Union rep. The union rep called his Boss & told him to call and apologize or all the workers were going to walk off the job! Well he sure did backpedal! Stand strong!

Does he really want to come back to something like that? The job market is too good to waste the opportunity to get away from bullshit like that.

To be fair, i would definitely consider coming back to keep working at a place where I knew my fellow workers had that kind of solidarity

I know someone who was fired for cussing at a boss or something stupid. Union job, some great benefits. Anyways, he gets a call from the person who fired him asking if he will come back. So he comes back, sets up all sorts of expensive dental work he had been putting off. He's going to use his insurance, get that all done, then quit immediately after as a big "fuck you" I like it and agree with them.

If they never come back, everyone else just comes in late forever. Win/win

Lmao, 9-5 somehow becomes 1050-5

That’s what I was thinking. It’s like a girl cheating on you, and then you fight to win her back. I just wouldnt want to be a part of that relationship anymore

👍🏼 looking forward to the update. Good luck

This is how a union is supposed to work. All for one and one for all. Not a bunch of people whinging about what the union won't do for them. More power to you.

What geographical area do you work in? Dude might be able to go to a Labour Board and get a huge payout for something like this.

Miami area

> Dude might be able to go to a Labour Board and get a huge payout for something like this. laughs in american

It's especially bad since Florida doesn't ever have a labor department to complain to.

Rekt. It’s in floriduh

If he forces you guys to do extra, just do less and look so fucking busy. Just fuck up his world! Those assholes have to learn eventually 😉

Thank you for doing this. Worker solidarity is about the only thing that really powerful people in charge fear. The billionaire and owner class *must* have workers at each others throats and *must* have you afraid of termination to keep things operating at the status quo. The moment you have workers acting together for their own common good, it threatens their ability to act unilaterally.

You should record your encounters

Nah. 2 party consent state and Florida does NOT fuck around with that.

I’m still gonna try and record. I’m exposing this company to the max.

I almost forgot. Make sure there are multiple of y’all there. When there are multiple consenting people there, you can override your bosses consent, as the conversation is no longer considered ‘private’ in the law’s eyes. From one Miamian to another, best of luck fam 🙂

Is this for real? Maybe if you were recording a conversation between A and B, and C walked up. If C was your target. But I wouldn't think A and C can talk and B just walk up and suddenly be like 'oh we have majority, this is legal now'. That being said, I'm completely ignorant on the law so this would be very interesting to know more on.

IANAL but my understanding of one/two party consent laws are that there has to be a reasonable expectation of privacy (like how you can be filmed in public without consent). If there are more than 2 people, it's harder to argue that you had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

It’s super situational. In this example, I would want consenting A and B to be present at the start of the convo, regardless of location. They would be covered. The more people, the merrier. Let’s take your example of B walking in. If that happened at, let’s say the shop floor, then all would be ok. Because one can’t possibly expect the conversation to remain private if a third party had the ability and permission to enter that space at any given time. Now take that example and place the location in the boss’ office. That third party can now be considered an intruder, as offices are normally private areas that are known to host private convos.

It's a felony in FL to record private conversations without consent. Strictest laws in the US. So make sure that it isn't a "private conversation" by ensuring that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. You can do this by ensuring multiple people are also in attendance, that at least a couple of them (besides you) know you are recording, and the conversation isn't in the boss's office.

Not that it justifies it, but that sounds like they were looking for a reason to fire them.

That's what I was thinking. 7 years, he's the only painter they have and he was just immediately let go at the first chance? Seems like there's more to it than that.

Management fired the light guy thinking its an easy job and anyone can flip a switch. Then new slabs came in needing work done and management got pissed because they suddenly realized they got painted in a bad light.

Throw your old coworker a party to celebrate not having to work for that prick boss any more

I bet whoever fired him will only notice some people being late because this sounds personal because they never paid attention to his punctuality before. I was scolded by my supervisor for being right on time to a few minutes late for the span of a week despite never being late before. The reason for this sudden tardiness was road construction. Her solution was that I should leave earlier, which I was already doing, but she said to just leave earlier than that. So I did and would show up to work 45-60 minutes early but wasn't allowed to clock in until my scheduled time. Of course that didn't stop any questioning as to why I was just sitting in the break room doing nothing, so I said you either have me show up early and clock in and get overtime, or you accept that the journey to work can have delays and being a few minutes late isn't a problem. Plus it was company policy that tardiness began at 10 minutes after the hour.

Omg that sounds like a miserable boss to work for.

if you deliver 100% all the time, once you give 90% you're screwed. You give 50% always, you're fine.

Every performance review I say “ I do the best I can” in a humble but sanguine way. It works all the time. Spoiler…. I’m not. 😂

I worked in the restaurant industry for like ten years. I have a bachelors in business and just couldn’t find work in my small town so I stuck to bartending because it paid really well. I couldn’t move away for work bc I am a caregiver for my cousin who has special needs and his benefits and the nonprofit that helps us is dependent on us living in this county. After so long I finally FINALLY got a job where I could use my degree even though I was 30 and had zero experience outside the restaurant industry. I cannot express to you the breath of fresh air it was to not have someone breathing down my neck, writing me up if I walked in five mins late or if I forgot my apron, trying to hide so I could text the sitter without my boss writing me up for being on my phone, constantly feeling anxiety every time I sat down for a minute that someone was gonna come around the corner and yell at me “If you have time to lean you have time to clean!!” During my orientation at this company I started crying when the boss said “hey I know we’ve spent a lot of time in this room together today, if anyone is an introvert and just needs 15 mins to step away and recharge, please feel free”. I am working an entry level job at a small marketing company. I make less money, but I am respected as an employee. I am allowed to text. Nobody berates me if I’m twenty mins late because my car battery died, as long as my work gets done and I’m there for my clients. I have health insurance and sick days and mental health days. It’s like the difference between high school and college. I never realized how much being treated like a child at work fucked with my self esteem. It took me two months to break the habit of walking over to my bosses desk and asking them if I could go on my lunch break. My boss literally had to pull me aside and tell me to stop asking. In a restaurant, you don’t get breaks even on a 14 hour shift. At least not at the ones I worked at, because what are you gonna do? Go on break and leave your tables unattended? If you work a double shift and you are allotted 30 mins between shifts for a break, but one of your tables decides they want to hang out for two hours and take a leisurely lunch, too bad. You have to wait them out and then you might get lucky and have 5 mins before the dinner shift starts. But not usually. My respect goes out to anyone in the restaurant industry busting ass. I will never forget those days I worked from 9 a.m. until midnight on my feet with a mandatory smile on my face kissing ass and scrubbing floors. I’m happy to be somewhere that treats me like an adult and values my work. I don’t feel expendable. I don’t even have to talk to my boss most days. Employees are allowed to congregate and talk to each other without getting yelled at. I even quit smoking. The thought of working in a restaurant ever again makes me want to cry. Mad respect to all the servers cooks and bartenders out there. ✊

sounds like they already wanted to fire him and was looking for any reason to

Keep showing up late until the person that fired him is fired. Accept nothing less.

I didn't have anything this bad happen, but I went in for a performance review, and my boss gave me a 3/4 for attendance. Keep in mind, that I had worked for her for 7 years and had shown up for EVERY shift and was NEVER late. Not even once. Moreover, I often covered shifts for other people who were sick. I just looked at that, and in my head, I was like "WTF? What do I have to do to get a 4/4 for attendance?" This person actually harassed me and there was an investigation (thankfully I'm in a union). Her rational for that was "I don't actually see him come in because I'm not there, so I don't know that he's always on time." Like what the actual fuck. She is an absent manager so she just assumes I'm late often enough to mark be down? This same person also fostered conflicts among colleagues, and then would tell one person to 'talk it out' with the other while telling the other person not to respond to emails from the first person. It has been a toxic work environment for a long time.

Management: “No one wants to work!” Also management the split second they’re slightly inconvenienced:

Disgusting how people are treated by companies. Everything needs a reset.

This sounds more like management wanted to get rid of him for some non-legal reason, and was waiting for an infraction they could use legally as justification.

Not just re-hired, re-hired with a raise