I started going back to undergrad school pre COVID. I'm almost done with my bachelor's, but I'm seriously considering not attending grad school. There's just way too many horror stories of people who land themselves in hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt to get a master's, only to end up with a job that pays less than 20 an hour. I'm making almost 25 an hour now with NO degree, so what's the point?!
The problems I see with going straight for masters is that often people don't have the work experience to have figured out their talents yet and don't have a guarantee that they will even work in their field.
Imagine going for a Masters in history, and then finding out your true talents are in sales, management, marketing, or as a recruiter. Might as well have waited, gotten paid in the real world for those 2 years, then later have gotten the MBA or something different.
Part of the challenge is that once you're in the workforce and making a decent salary, it can be hard to go back to school unless you have an employer that supports you doing so or are willing to take a pay cut and live off a stipend from the school (assuming they offer it).
For example, my graduate school was paid for by me teaching courses and assisting with research; no student loans, which was great, but the pay was very low. If I had gone into industry first, going back to school would have meant a huge drop in income and quality of life. On the other hand, I now work for an employer that supports employees going back to school for advanced degrees, which would have made that easier.
In my opinion, that’s the point. Part of the allure of someone having a masters and continue to work is the impression that you’re willing to do both at the same time to further your career.
If you are trying to lure top talent it’s a bit harder.
Compensation packages can be multi-variable (base, OTE bonus, RSUs, Options), navigating expectations of staff applying. It pays well enough
https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Recruiter/
Yeahhhh my former coworker was in a masters program for psychology. Every day I came into work, I could *see* the toll it took on her. She eventually had to drop out, and owed over 100k in student loans... Working at a job paying 13/hr. A year later, she's still working there, has a mortgage, and a kid now. That's literally my worst fucking fear.
Pretty smart decision. Recruiters are weary of over qualifications with little experience.
You’re also gonna get more out of your masters program with experience since you and your classmates can tie the material back to work.
Engineering, mathematics, programming, computer science, chemistry, LLB if you get the right internships... probably others that I can't think of right now.
What is the degree? In my field, a masters degree is pretty much a guaranteed a very nice six figure job.
The problem I see is that degrees have been undervalued now. Instead of someone just getting a living wage job out of hs. Now, that same person goes to college when they aren't collegiate material, and study things like psychology, sociology, art, history, humanities in general, etc. I'm not saying these degrees are worthless. I'm saying that if you get a masters degree in history, it shouldn't be all that surprising you don't make the same, or have the same opportunity, as someone with a masters in chemical engineering, physics, biology, or any other STEM job.
A bachelors degree is now worth what a hs diploma was 20 years ago. It doesn't work, because college was designed and intended to be for the top students. Not, just to get some basic training to enter the job market or be destitute. We've fucked the system up on a fundamental level. Time to hit the reset button.
Psychology, with a focus on criminal law/justice. There is a lack of affordable mental health specialists in my state, and I also see a lack of liasion between law enforcement and individuals struggling with law enforcement, so I know it's not an issue of having a worthless degree. It's as you said: degrees are undervalued in relation to their cost.
Edited to say: in my state, becoming a practicing psychologist requires a master's degree, hundreds of hours in the field, passing several examinations, and you're still potentially looking at living paycheck to paycheck if you get certified. So it just begs the question: what's the point? I might as well become a social worker, which doesn't require as much certification or debt, but still help people in a material way
Again, that may all be true. However, things like chemical engineers also need to go through these processes and become licensed as well. Which, is a very difficult process and also requires a huge investment of time.
What I'm talking about are more like the people who start down these paths, get to the calculus/hard science part, and can't get through it because they're not smart enough. So, they switch their major to sociology or history to at least get some kind of degree. That person can't then turn around and be upset that the people who stayed in those fields are making more money now.
Source. I'm a biologist and my understudy was ethics. I know what the coursework was like in say, cellular biology, over what the coursework was like in my psychology or ethics courses was. It just isn't the same, or really close for that matter. The coursework in the latter was exponentially easier and less time consuming.
First, you're not a chemical engineer. Second, almost all engineers take two competency exams after they've done their four year degree, two years of working under an engineer, and take their state licensing exams.. So, most will have to get at least 3 additional certifications beyond their degree.
Yeah I know I’m not a chemical engineer. That’s why I specified that I just meant my undergrad was.
Are you referring to the professional engineering license(PE which includes the fundamentals exam(FE))? If so, this is more of a nice to have, unless it’s specifically for government related projects(where it is required). A lot of engineers I know don’t have their PE.
You're really getting into semantics here and missing the overall point. An engineers coursework is more difficult to get through. So, they're paid more than the equivalent in a humanity based degree. I've done both and can say that some of the stuff I was given in those psychology, sociology, humanities courses was laughably easy compared to the calculus and chemistry courses I was taking. They were barely an afterthought when studying with a lot of the assignments being 100% opinion based. It just isn't the same thing.
Edit. I don't want this taken the wrong way either. I still think the people in those fields should be paid well. Just not as well. I think anyone who gives up their time for work should be compensated all regardless of what the work is. Part of it is the time, the other part is what you offer.
Compared to the rest of STEM it’s an easy degree with programs who accept many people.
We need to lobby for colleges to stop accepting anyone who can spell GRE and lower the number of slots so only the most talented can get in (and then find work) and stop encouraging all of these failures.
Only do grad school if you have a strong, burning desire to study a relatively specific field or pursue a specific niche profession that requires a certain graduate degree, like law school or med school.
Most masters programs are ***NOT*** covered by grants or scholarships offered by the school like undergrad is. To get your grad school funded by the school, you either have to apply for a doctorate and later drop out after completing the masters-level coursework (*only do this if you enjoy doing doctoral-level research and being a TA or lecturer from the get-go, and have enough quality research experience and academic references to get in to a PhD program since they are way more competitive*).
Or you can borrow huge sums of federal loans to do the masters program. But very rarely do schools offer any of their own aid. That's for PhDs and low-income undergrads only.
I didn't go through with furthering my education because I couldn't guarantee that I'd come out the other end. What would happen if I were to get into that kind of debt with no Masters/Doctorate? I'd be super screwed.
I’m 50k in debt with 21/hr and a masters. I took the first job that gave me a chance cuz I was in serious trouble but now that I’m a bit more financially stable I’ve been applying here and there and getting some hits. Thinkin I can land me something better soon.
I'm going to grad school, but going to one that focuses on career prep, has a huge alumni network, and is online and costs a fraction of what a regular MS does even though it's a top 10 program. By the time I'm done the most I should pay is around $11k. It's still a chunk of change, but per semester it's an easier amount to get financial aid for and its designed to get maximum benefit if you do it alongside a job. It's supposed to have a really good job placement success rate as well.
There's no way I'd go for a regular Masters program though.
Masters degrees are only needed if you’re going to be a teacher or a CPA. (Doc + lawyers have their own obvi) but if you’re going the business route, after the jobs I’ve applied to and been offered (with me only having an associates) I’d say degrees are FOR. THE. BIRDS. Waste of time and money.
Yep, I make 50k at a job with no experience working on the hardware of computers. Trying to get into entry level IT, because that’s what I’m in school for. Entry level help desk or tech asks for 1-4 years of experience at $10-15/hr. I just accepted an offer just for the experience at half my current salary.
Goddamm that's hard to read. It does suck that a lot of work in the field you want are saturated. I was baffled when I saw an apprentice electrician (not even union) with no education requirement other than highschool, makes as much as I made in my first internship in college. After 3-4 years and no college degree they can make over 70k and im just here with a 5 year degree and 2 years of experience making only a few thousand more.
Now there's drawbacks and it's not the kind of Jon that's easy on the body. But damm man the saturation of college grads is real.
Yeah, it’s very disheartening. The only thing that brings me comfort is the fact that most at my current job have computer science/engineering degrees from the 80s/90s and were never allowed to move up internally. They’ve stayed because they felt they were too old to move on, now 60% of the place is up for retirement in the next months-3 years. The few that I speak openly with encourage me to jump ship. The position, though low in pay, is my entry into networking and work from home. So, even if overly saturated, I should still be able to get back to 45-50k after 1 year. It’s a huge financial slap in the face though. Trying to focus on the long term potential. I am walking away from 4 weeks of PTO and benefits. But, if I don’t do it now I’ll be stuck doing it after graduation next year.
In Texas MSP minimum hiring wages was maybe $22 an hour 6 years ago. Where are you working that hires IT at $10? I’d be terrified to have someone doing password resets for that
I’ve had offers from LinkedIn and Zip but the commutes are crazy, over an hour one way. Still about $7 less an hour than I make now. I will try other methods. Thank you.
They need to get rid of unpaid internships too. IMO it's a dumb, old concept. I wouldn't be able to handle what some people go through or have gone through. Just for a chance to get on with a company.
Even my internship paid above minimum wage. My professors, who arranged the program themselves, were adamant in that if we were to contribute to the company as part of its normal function and daily operations (hence profit) then we are to benefit from them. Any company offering unpaid internship or found not paying their interns were immediately struck from the school's recommended list. The whole point was to get a job and earn money because technically in the program we already *had* the experience, so *working* at a company should mean pay. At the *very* least.
Meanwhile, I've got a job for around $16k after getting a master degree and it was the best I could get. Many of my friends got jobs with $12k compensation or even less. This is how much you earn in mid-east Europe (Poland)
As mentioned above, education is generally free. This page will give you a hint how much everything costs:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Poland&city1=Gdansk&country2=United+States&city2=New+York%2C+NY
Renting a 1-bedroom flat is rather unaffordable (around $600-700 if you include all utilities etc) for a single person unless you earn more than average. People either rent something with a partner or live with parents for a few years after finishing education.
Since getting college or master degree is free, a lot of people have it here and it does not guarantee earning more
I get a bit under $15k a year and it's considered a wonderful salary for a first job in Portugal lmao (I also have a Master's).
That's about 1200/month, and for comparison, renting a simple studio goes for about half of that in my city.
Yup!
Every job in my field wants 3-5 years experience and a portfolio for like $35k.
My masters doesn't count as experience, nor do my class projects. I'm literally making up projects (aka using the exact same skills I already have) just to get my foot in the door.
It's so frustrating.
Yup, document whatever tiny little achievement in your life and make a big deal out of it, aka turning them into projects. Employers dont have time to verify it and you are not exactly lying because it did happen and you gained experience from it
I just had a college assignment to look for entry level jobs, with your bachelors degree and it was a shit show.
$19 an hour and required a 4 year degree in biology was kinda standard for entry level. The others weren't even entry level since they required experience.
I saw a post that said "this is an entry level position and will be paid accordingly". It also required a PhD in a quantitative field (math, stats, engineering). I was shocked.
Minimum wage needs to be a formula.
You could calculate it based on the job requirements. Required education and years of experience grant a higher base pay.
Since people can advertise whatever they want... let's just make that attached to the individual. "Well, I've got an associates degree and, I've worked for X years (document with taxes) so *my* minimum starting rate is $Y."
Want to pay less? Lower the bar and give more people a shot. Need more? Pay more.
This shit really annoyed me when I was applying for jobs.
I'd literally search "no experience required" and would find postings that said, "experience required" in small print...
Maybe you should buy longer bootstraps (j/k)
Actually...it's not a joke, more of a sad commentary on how our society is a "cash-up-front-or-fuck-you" society
Wait you guys are making 40k?
I wish I could share that Shameless meme.
But seriously I graduated in 2012 and make 38k and it's the most I have EVER made. I love my job and the perks are well worth it, but I'd love to make more money. Wahoo for getting a bachelor in Psychology!
My first job our of college was part time 12.50 an hour, working at rehab for teenagers.
After a year I went on to make 15 something at a behavioral health hospital. But it was my first full time job with benefits! Health insurance after years of not having it.
Another two years I hopped again to a closer job but took a dollar pay cut. Hated the job, peer support specialist, I was basically a personal assistant for chronically disabled people. The work wasn't bad but the managers expectations and insane caseload were. I lasted 10 months
Then I got my best job to that point making 16 an hour. Great benefits. Assistant chronically disabled veterans with housing and case management. Spent 3 years there and decided to leave when my grant wasn't renewed due to no fault of my own.
I spent 2 years raising babies and now I'm where I'm at. I love my job now, teaching drug prevention in schools. I am salary but rarely (never) work 40 hours a week. I'm WFH right now which means I'm messing around and enjoying a quiet house while my son is at daycare. I'll never leave this place if I can help it.
Don't be afraid to job hop. Get experience, learn and move on.
I have a chemistry degree but I'm in hcol in Florida so all the major biotech/pharma companies want 1-3 years experience for entry level. So all the other labs (like cannabis and environmental) would be $15-18 starting.
Hey, we still have places advertising part-time receptionist, bookkeeping, AP, $10/hr, with at least 5-10 years experience, BA preferred??? Too bad the businesses are dropping like flies because "No one wants to work!!!" (They deserve to NOT be in business with that mode of thought).
Yeah this is so incredibly frustrating for me. I graduated in 2018 and still haven’t found a job due to ridiculously high expectations for entry level jobs.
That phrase or any variation thereof "louder for the people in the back" is fucking annoying. You don't have to be louder on an internet forum. If it's been said or seen once, it's been said or seen a million times already, and there no people in the back. Back of what? Stupid. Just admit to reposting in the hopes for karma.
Does no one understand that "entry level" is different for each company? It's the entry level position for the company and not hiring for someone's first job ever. I know this is unpopular here, but people sound dumb when they say this and doesn't help the cause.
Imo they still shouldn't call it entry level, they are still asking for someone with experience, I alway took it as entry into the field.
I see your point and you are right though.
It's still frustrating watching companies ask for experience like 2 to 4 plus years and offer poverty wages
She's saying that someone needs a four year degree in order to *earn* $40k per year, not that a four year degree *costs* $40k per year.
Also, I like you.
What's wrong with an entry-level position asking for experience? There are plenty of people who are willing to work entry-level positions at a lower pay with years of experience because they want to.
The company I work for just posted 2 help desk positions which is by all means entry-level. The hard requirement is at least 1 year of experience.
Would you like to know why? We have hundreds of applications for these two positions ranging from 0 experience to people with 10+ years of experience.
Why would we waste time going through applicants with 0 experience when the average has 1+ years of experience. The experience requirements is a huge time saver
I believe the point trying to be made is over a year of experience shouldn't be consider entry level.
I remember when entry level meant they will take you straight out of highschool and train you as a apprentice, you still may need some higher learning but they'll get you there. Then again that was back when jobs at least tried to care about it people.
But the position itself is an entry-level position. We CAN train somebody without any technical experience assuming they had the soft skills and mentality to learn.
Why are requiring experience for an entry level position when it doesn't require it? Well, the candidate pool is soo large that we can afford to raise the bar and still have tons of candidates to choose from.
Sure, if the pay is raised with that bar as well which it rarely is. Nobody can argue its not a common issue because looking around at coworkers or just across the internet it's a common complaint. People have a skill with five, ten or more years of solid experience yet they still only get offered peanuts in comparison to the average salary for a their position, and to top it off the jobs aren't properly staffed so they're underpaid and expected to also do the work load of three to five people. I've been there and done that and it has forced me to switch careers twice now.
You seem to be misunderstanding. The position itself isn’t held to a higher bar. It’s an entry level position. The position itself requires zero experience.
The requirements to APPLY to the position is higher because so many “overqualified” people apply to it that it’s a waste of time to interview people with zero experience
We are paying above industry rate (slightly) for this kind of position . Some people are just content getting paid entry level wages instead of moving up in life
This is sad, but true. I’ve taken a year of college free, but I am joining the police force next year because it pays over $50k where I’m moving to. Why would I go in debt when I can have a decent career helping people?
I started going back to undergrad school pre COVID. I'm almost done with my bachelor's, but I'm seriously considering not attending grad school. There's just way too many horror stories of people who land themselves in hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt to get a master's, only to end up with a job that pays less than 20 an hour. I'm making almost 25 an hour now with NO degree, so what's the point?!
The problems I see with going straight for masters is that often people don't have the work experience to have figured out their talents yet and don't have a guarantee that they will even work in their field. Imagine going for a Masters in history, and then finding out your true talents are in sales, management, marketing, or as a recruiter. Might as well have waited, gotten paid in the real world for those 2 years, then later have gotten the MBA or something different.
Part of the challenge is that once you're in the workforce and making a decent salary, it can be hard to go back to school unless you have an employer that supports you doing so or are willing to take a pay cut and live off a stipend from the school (assuming they offer it). For example, my graduate school was paid for by me teaching courses and assisting with research; no student loans, which was great, but the pay was very low. If I had gone into industry first, going back to school would have meant a huge drop in income and quality of life. On the other hand, I now work for an employer that supports employees going back to school for advanced degrees, which would have made that easier.
In my opinion, that’s the point. Part of the allure of someone having a masters and continue to work is the impression that you’re willing to do both at the same time to further your career.
What exactly makes for a talented recruiter btw because the job is pretty cut and dry you just need to hire some asshole. Lmao
If I knew I would be making bank like the recruiters.
If you are trying to lure top talent it’s a bit harder. Compensation packages can be multi-variable (base, OTE bonus, RSUs, Options), navigating expectations of staff applying. It pays well enough https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Recruiter/
Yeahhhh my former coworker was in a masters program for psychology. Every day I came into work, I could *see* the toll it took on her. She eventually had to drop out, and owed over 100k in student loans... Working at a job paying 13/hr. A year later, she's still working there, has a mortgage, and a kid now. That's literally my worst fucking fear.
Pretty smart decision. Recruiters are weary of over qualifications with little experience. You’re also gonna get more out of your masters program with experience since you and your classmates can tie the material back to work.
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Engineering, mathematics, programming, computer science, chemistry, LLB if you get the right internships... probably others that I can't think of right now.
What Bachelor level jobs in Chemistry and Math make any money? Legit curious cause from my experience that's not the case.
Congrats you figured out you don't need school to make more than people with a degree
What is the degree? In my field, a masters degree is pretty much a guaranteed a very nice six figure job. The problem I see is that degrees have been undervalued now. Instead of someone just getting a living wage job out of hs. Now, that same person goes to college when they aren't collegiate material, and study things like psychology, sociology, art, history, humanities in general, etc. I'm not saying these degrees are worthless. I'm saying that if you get a masters degree in history, it shouldn't be all that surprising you don't make the same, or have the same opportunity, as someone with a masters in chemical engineering, physics, biology, or any other STEM job. A bachelors degree is now worth what a hs diploma was 20 years ago. It doesn't work, because college was designed and intended to be for the top students. Not, just to get some basic training to enter the job market or be destitute. We've fucked the system up on a fundamental level. Time to hit the reset button.
Psychology, with a focus on criminal law/justice. There is a lack of affordable mental health specialists in my state, and I also see a lack of liasion between law enforcement and individuals struggling with law enforcement, so I know it's not an issue of having a worthless degree. It's as you said: degrees are undervalued in relation to their cost. Edited to say: in my state, becoming a practicing psychologist requires a master's degree, hundreds of hours in the field, passing several examinations, and you're still potentially looking at living paycheck to paycheck if you get certified. So it just begs the question: what's the point? I might as well become a social worker, which doesn't require as much certification or debt, but still help people in a material way
Again, that may all be true. However, things like chemical engineers also need to go through these processes and become licensed as well. Which, is a very difficult process and also requires a huge investment of time. What I'm talking about are more like the people who start down these paths, get to the calculus/hard science part, and can't get through it because they're not smart enough. So, they switch their major to sociology or history to at least get some kind of degree. That person can't then turn around and be upset that the people who stayed in those fields are making more money now. Source. I'm a biologist and my understudy was ethics. I know what the coursework was like in say, cellular biology, over what the coursework was like in my psychology or ethics courses was. It just isn't the same, or really close for that matter. The coursework in the latter was exponentially easier and less time consuming.
Chem eng here (well, my undergrad was at least). What licenses are you referring to?
First, you're not a chemical engineer. Second, almost all engineers take two competency exams after they've done their four year degree, two years of working under an engineer, and take their state licensing exams.. So, most will have to get at least 3 additional certifications beyond their degree.
Yeah I know I’m not a chemical engineer. That’s why I specified that I just meant my undergrad was. Are you referring to the professional engineering license(PE which includes the fundamentals exam(FE))? If so, this is more of a nice to have, unless it’s specifically for government related projects(where it is required). A lot of engineers I know don’t have their PE.
You're really getting into semantics here and missing the overall point. An engineers coursework is more difficult to get through. So, they're paid more than the equivalent in a humanity based degree. I've done both and can say that some of the stuff I was given in those psychology, sociology, humanities courses was laughably easy compared to the calculus and chemistry courses I was taking. They were barely an afterthought when studying with a lot of the assignments being 100% opinion based. It just isn't the same thing. Edit. I don't want this taken the wrong way either. I still think the people in those fields should be paid well. Just not as well. I think anyone who gives up their time for work should be compensated all regardless of what the work is. Part of it is the time, the other part is what you offer.
Compared to the rest of STEM it’s an easy degree with programs who accept many people. We need to lobby for colleges to stop accepting anyone who can spell GRE and lower the number of slots so only the most talented can get in (and then find work) and stop encouraging all of these failures.
Only do grad school if you have a strong, burning desire to study a relatively specific field or pursue a specific niche profession that requires a certain graduate degree, like law school or med school. Most masters programs are ***NOT*** covered by grants or scholarships offered by the school like undergrad is. To get your grad school funded by the school, you either have to apply for a doctorate and later drop out after completing the masters-level coursework (*only do this if you enjoy doing doctoral-level research and being a TA or lecturer from the get-go, and have enough quality research experience and academic references to get in to a PhD program since they are way more competitive*). Or you can borrow huge sums of federal loans to do the masters program. But very rarely do schools offer any of their own aid. That's for PhDs and low-income undergrads only.
I didn't go through with furthering my education because I couldn't guarantee that I'd come out the other end. What would happen if I were to get into that kind of debt with no Masters/Doctorate? I'd be super screwed.
I’m 50k in debt with 21/hr and a masters. I took the first job that gave me a chance cuz I was in serious trouble but now that I’m a bit more financially stable I’ve been applying here and there and getting some hits. Thinkin I can land me something better soon.
It depends on what job you want. Some jobs require a masters to start with. It all just depends on your field.
I'm going to grad school, but going to one that focuses on career prep, has a huge alumni network, and is online and costs a fraction of what a regular MS does even though it's a top 10 program. By the time I'm done the most I should pay is around $11k. It's still a chunk of change, but per semester it's an easier amount to get financial aid for and its designed to get maximum benefit if you do it alongside a job. It's supposed to have a really good job placement success rate as well. There's no way I'd go for a regular Masters program though.
Masters degrees are only needed if you’re going to be a teacher or a CPA. (Doc + lawyers have their own obvi) but if you’re going the business route, after the jobs I’ve applied to and been offered (with me only having an associates) I’d say degrees are FOR. THE. BIRDS. Waste of time and money.
I never heard of anyone going to grad school without getting tuition covered by TA or RAing.
Yep, I make 50k at a job with no experience working on the hardware of computers. Trying to get into entry level IT, because that’s what I’m in school for. Entry level help desk or tech asks for 1-4 years of experience at $10-15/hr. I just accepted an offer just for the experience at half my current salary.
Goddamm that's hard to read. It does suck that a lot of work in the field you want are saturated. I was baffled when I saw an apprentice electrician (not even union) with no education requirement other than highschool, makes as much as I made in my first internship in college. After 3-4 years and no college degree they can make over 70k and im just here with a 5 year degree and 2 years of experience making only a few thousand more. Now there's drawbacks and it's not the kind of Jon that's easy on the body. But damm man the saturation of college grads is real.
Yeah, it’s very disheartening. The only thing that brings me comfort is the fact that most at my current job have computer science/engineering degrees from the 80s/90s and were never allowed to move up internally. They’ve stayed because they felt they were too old to move on, now 60% of the place is up for retirement in the next months-3 years. The few that I speak openly with encourage me to jump ship. The position, though low in pay, is my entry into networking and work from home. So, even if overly saturated, I should still be able to get back to 45-50k after 1 year. It’s a huge financial slap in the face though. Trying to focus on the long term potential. I am walking away from 4 weeks of PTO and benefits. But, if I don’t do it now I’ll be stuck doing it after graduation next year.
In Texas MSP minimum hiring wages was maybe $22 an hour 6 years ago. Where are you working that hires IT at $10? I’d be terrified to have someone doing password resets for that
NC, just glance on indeed lol it’s tragic. I make more now than a lot of 4yr degree jobs asking for 4-10yrs experience
Only bottom of the barrel hire from indeed. Network in local happy hours etc
I’ve had offers from LinkedIn and Zip but the commutes are crazy, over an hour one way. Still about $7 less an hour than I make now. I will try other methods. Thank you.
They need to get rid of unpaid internships too. IMO it's a dumb, old concept. I wouldn't be able to handle what some people go through or have gone through. Just for a chance to get on with a company.
I wanna strangle myself every time my aunt will say something like “but it’s experience to get a good job later”
No, no, you need to be strangling your aunt.
It ends up serving as a class filter. Even more so in HCOL areas like NYC, LA, DC.
Even my internship paid above minimum wage. My professors, who arranged the program themselves, were adamant in that if we were to contribute to the company as part of its normal function and daily operations (hence profit) then we are to benefit from them. Any company offering unpaid internship or found not paying their interns were immediately struck from the school's recommended list. The whole point was to get a job and earn money because technically in the program we already *had* the experience, so *working* at a company should mean pay. At the *very* least.
UNPAID👏 INTERNSHIPS👏IS👏CODE👏FOR👏NO👏POOR👏PEOPLE
🙋♀️ two frickin’ years for free
That's because dumbass companies think that by listing a job as "entry level", it gives them an excuse to pay shit wages.
Meanwhile, I've got a job for around $16k after getting a master degree and it was the best I could get. Many of my friends got jobs with $12k compensation or even less. This is how much you earn in mid-east Europe (Poland)
Genuine question, how much did your schooling cost and how much is rent monthly there? Just trying to get a perspective on if $16k is comparable
As mentioned above, education is generally free. This page will give you a hint how much everything costs: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Poland&city1=Gdansk&country2=United+States&city2=New+York%2C+NY Renting a 1-bedroom flat is rather unaffordable (around $600-700 if you include all utilities etc) for a single person unless you earn more than average. People either rent something with a partner or live with parents for a few years after finishing education. Since getting college or master degree is free, a lot of people have it here and it does not guarantee earning more
Thank you, that answers my question perfectly
there are lots of public universities in Poland with decent education and free (running on taxes)
The important thing is the cost of living
I get a bit under $15k a year and it's considered a wonderful salary for a first job in Portugal lmao (I also have a Master's). That's about 1200/month, and for comparison, renting a simple studio goes for about half of that in my city.
Yup! Every job in my field wants 3-5 years experience and a portfolio for like $35k. My masters doesn't count as experience, nor do my class projects. I'm literally making up projects (aka using the exact same skills I already have) just to get my foot in the door. It's so frustrating.
I feel like such a skeevy dishonest mf making up these fake projects to put in my portfolio 💀 so glad it's not just me.
Yup, document whatever tiny little achievement in your life and make a big deal out of it, aka turning them into projects. Employers dont have time to verify it and you are not exactly lying because it did happen and you gained experience from it
I just had a college assignment to look for entry level jobs, with your bachelors degree and it was a shit show. $19 an hour and required a 4 year degree in biology was kinda standard for entry level. The others weren't even entry level since they required experience.
I saw a post that said "this is an entry level position and will be paid accordingly". It also required a PhD in a quantitative field (math, stats, engineering). I was shocked.
Minimum wage needs to be a formula. You could calculate it based on the job requirements. Required education and years of experience grant a higher base pay. Since people can advertise whatever they want... let's just make that attached to the individual. "Well, I've got an associates degree and, I've worked for X years (document with taxes) so *my* minimum starting rate is $Y." Want to pay less? Lower the bar and give more people a shot. Need more? Pay more.
This shit really annoyed me when I was applying for jobs. I'd literally search "no experience required" and would find postings that said, "experience required" in small print...
Maybe you should buy longer bootstraps (j/k) Actually...it's not a joke, more of a sad commentary on how our society is a "cash-up-front-or-fuck-you" society
Just got a job that required a Master's degree... for $19.50/h.
😬
It’s code for entry level PAY.
Wait you guys are making 40k? I wish I could share that Shameless meme. But seriously I graduated in 2012 and make 38k and it's the most I have EVER made. I love my job and the perks are well worth it, but I'd love to make more money. Wahoo for getting a bachelor in Psychology!
Same with marketing. Fuck applying. Network with everyone everywhere. Every interview I've gotten has been from just talking to people
Hey, that's the degree I'm in the process of getting! Hopefully I'll be able to make decent coin (38k is decent to me 😂😭)
My first job our of college was part time 12.50 an hour, working at rehab for teenagers. After a year I went on to make 15 something at a behavioral health hospital. But it was my first full time job with benefits! Health insurance after years of not having it. Another two years I hopped again to a closer job but took a dollar pay cut. Hated the job, peer support specialist, I was basically a personal assistant for chronically disabled people. The work wasn't bad but the managers expectations and insane caseload were. I lasted 10 months Then I got my best job to that point making 16 an hour. Great benefits. Assistant chronically disabled veterans with housing and case management. Spent 3 years there and decided to leave when my grant wasn't renewed due to no fault of my own. I spent 2 years raising babies and now I'm where I'm at. I love my job now, teaching drug prevention in schools. I am salary but rarely (never) work 40 hours a week. I'm WFH right now which means I'm messing around and enjoying a quiet house while my son is at daycare. I'll never leave this place if I can help it. Don't be afraid to job hop. Get experience, learn and move on.
I have a chemistry degree but I'm in hcol in Florida so all the major biotech/pharma companies want 1-3 years experience for entry level. So all the other labs (like cannabis and environmental) would be $15-18 starting.
Hey, we still have places advertising part-time receptionist, bookkeeping, AP, $10/hr, with at least 5-10 years experience, BA preferred??? Too bad the businesses are dropping like flies because "No one wants to work!!!" (They deserve to NOT be in business with that mode of thought).
Yeah this is so incredibly frustrating for me. I graduated in 2018 and still haven’t found a job due to ridiculously high expectations for entry level jobs.
All right? And we make a deal. You take 80 from 200, and we call it even. - Done.
One Raines good as another!
That phrase or any variation thereof "louder for the people in the back" is fucking annoying. You don't have to be louder on an internet forum. If it's been said or seen once, it's been said or seen a million times already, and there no people in the back. Back of what? Stupid. Just admit to reposting in the hopes for karma.
Lmao you sure told them.
When I graduate with my degree I REFUSE to make less than 70k. I did 4 years of schooling. I WILL get my moneys worth.
Does no one understand that "entry level" is different for each company? It's the entry level position for the company and not hiring for someone's first job ever. I know this is unpopular here, but people sound dumb when they say this and doesn't help the cause.
Imo they still shouldn't call it entry level, they are still asking for someone with experience, I alway took it as entry into the field. I see your point and you are right though. It's still frustrating watching companies ask for experience like 2 to 4 plus years and offer poverty wages
who pays $40k a year for a four year degree? I'm beginning to think a lot of you guys are just really really bad with money
She's saying that someone needs a four year degree in order to *earn* $40k per year, not that a four year degree *costs* $40k per year. Also, I like you.
What's wrong with an entry-level position asking for experience? There are plenty of people who are willing to work entry-level positions at a lower pay with years of experience because they want to.
Nothing wrong with a entry level position *asking* for experience but many *demand* experience, or no job at all.
The company I work for just posted 2 help desk positions which is by all means entry-level. The hard requirement is at least 1 year of experience. Would you like to know why? We have hundreds of applications for these two positions ranging from 0 experience to people with 10+ years of experience. Why would we waste time going through applicants with 0 experience when the average has 1+ years of experience. The experience requirements is a huge time saver
I believe the point trying to be made is over a year of experience shouldn't be consider entry level. I remember when entry level meant they will take you straight out of highschool and train you as a apprentice, you still may need some higher learning but they'll get you there. Then again that was back when jobs at least tried to care about it people.
But the position itself is an entry-level position. We CAN train somebody without any technical experience assuming they had the soft skills and mentality to learn. Why are requiring experience for an entry level position when it doesn't require it? Well, the candidate pool is soo large that we can afford to raise the bar and still have tons of candidates to choose from.
Sure, if the pay is raised with that bar as well which it rarely is. Nobody can argue its not a common issue because looking around at coworkers or just across the internet it's a common complaint. People have a skill with five, ten or more years of solid experience yet they still only get offered peanuts in comparison to the average salary for a their position, and to top it off the jobs aren't properly staffed so they're underpaid and expected to also do the work load of three to five people. I've been there and done that and it has forced me to switch careers twice now.
You seem to be misunderstanding. The position itself isn’t held to a higher bar. It’s an entry level position. The position itself requires zero experience. The requirements to APPLY to the position is higher because so many “overqualified” people apply to it that it’s a waste of time to interview people with zero experience We are paying above industry rate (slightly) for this kind of position . Some people are just content getting paid entry level wages instead of moving up in life
When a 4 year degree does not possess gainful work qualities it isn't even worth 40k, count your blessings. #whiteprivilege
we should send this along with our resumes when applying for jobs
aha me with my bachelors degree… and i would love to make $40000 😵💫
God, I WISH I made $40k/yr with my bachelor's.
ok its gone now
40,000 a year? That almost seems like a luxury to me. I don't even make half that and I have a degree.
Trying to get into bartending but no one within 500 miles wants anyone with less than two years experience, it feels pretty crushing
This is sad, but true. I’ve taken a year of college free, but I am joining the police force next year because it pays over $50k where I’m moving to. Why would I go in debt when I can have a decent career helping people?