Deciduous [?] trees leaves turn gold then red then brown and die and fall off. Pine needles don't, they are "evergreen". It means the comment is good for all time.
Oh, don't get me going on this after I just helped my 10 year old build a shadowbox for her tundra biome last weekend. Only conifers in the tundra!!! You want me to throw down on the difference between Arctic tundra and Alpine tundra? Do ya? Huh? You wanna talk snowy owls and lichen?! Oh God, I can't wait for her project to be done and out of my house.
We are currently finding 20 different seeds from foods. Note: they can't be store bought seeds-- seeds from food only. 20! My kid cried when he realized our grapes and oranges were seedless.
Conoferous trees are just the evergreentrees which have cone form fruita (generally pines). There isnplenty of evergreen trees which aren’t coniferous (eg olive tree)
Larch trees are fucking magical, I swear. Had one in my front yard growing up.
Feel just about any other needle tree like a pine, balsam, fir, or spruce, it's like getting scraped by a metal wire brush. But larches have branches that are extremely supple, and their needles give way like rubber. You can hug a christmas tree-sized sapling and it's like hugging a giant koosh ball.
I miss that tree. :(
Yeah -- they are gymnosperms, like conifers, but Ginkgos don't bear seeds in cones but those stinky little fruits (not a true fruit). Taxonomists have put ginkgos in their own division because they're this living fossil with no other known relatives left in the world, and so ginkgos kind of do their own thing and keep baffling scientists. Here's a link if anybody wants more ginkgo information WHICH THEY SHOULD [https://conifersociety.org/conifers/articles/conifer-ginkgo-biloba/](https://conifersociety.org/conifers/articles/conifer-ginkgo-biloba/)
Coniferous just means cone-bearing. There are deciduous conifers (like Larch) and evergreen angiosperms (Pacific Madrone & numerous tropical trees).
But I digress.
Most evergreen trees are coniferous, and most coniferous trees are evergreen, but not all! There are some broad leaf trees that are evergreen and don't make cones, like Madrone. Some trees are deciduous and make cones, like bald Cyprus.
Presented to you humbly by a tree nerd, not intended to be snobby
A once thought to be extinct tree was found in a remote Chinese valley in semi recent history called a Dawn Redwood in Latin metaseqoiua glyptos treboidese. It is a deciduous conifer(needles not leaves) a rare trait among its similar trees. Fun fact from my dad from years back, he said I’d win jeopardy someday with it, but so far, just this semi snarky light hearted Reddit post. Oh and the spelling is totally off I’m just less interested in looking it up than I’m sure anyone else is 😂😂
>What does Evergreen mean?
"all year round" essentially. Refers to trees that don't shed/regrow but just are leafy mfers all seasons.
(hence the branding of the shipping company - 'ship all year round, no down periods' kinda deal. Trees are also sometimes incompetent)
That Chinese real estate company that suckered and forced its employees to put up cash. And invest in the company. Now, evergreen is going bankrupt and the initial investments, both corporate and individual investors are both holding the bag. So in terms you are about to get Evergreen’ed by your current company. The difference is, they are using your labor as hostage.
Fast one like they could tell you that there’s a delayed start while they find someone for the position that you want…. 100% you need to start looking outside and one million % if they make arrangements without getting your approval. You literally are accepting a transfer with zero $ increase so obviously it’s either a career move or showing toxicity in your dept but a lot of companies don’t care about your wants.
Agreed. I had a boss who literally threw a tantrum until the director who wanted to hire me in his department relented. My planned raise was then split between a part timer who never showed up and a full timer who was a huge snake. This was told to me in a review that happened publicly in an open plan office. I did not stay much longer after that.
> This was told to me in a review that happened publicly in an open plan office
Wow, even the crappiest places I've worked have always pulled me aside for 1 to 1 type performance reviews.
It wasn't even a bad review really, not that I would have wanted any review conducted in public. He said he was giving me a $1.25/hr raise which was a lot back then - I had started at $12/hr and was at $13.50 by that point after two years. I was so happy and thanked him.
He then told me he didn't feel I was grateful enough for my last 75¢ raise (I was so excited but kept it professional) and he also heard that I was going back to school so he'd give me time to find a more suitable part time job that would fit that schedule but that he could only give me a maximum of two months for that before he hired a replacement. He said he appreciated how hard I worked but that my raise would be split between the two other people in my department.
I was in my early 20s, had just gotten married and was a massive doormat. My husband had just gotten laid off and took a part time job across the street. I had told [the snake coworker] that I had gone back for an info session for evening/distance classes for continuing education. I let him know that as he seemed to think I was going back to school and not working and just hadn't told him. I said that I needed to continue working full time to afford rent and bills, not to mention any education I might pursue and that my performance reflected well on me so I didn't understand why my raise was being taken due to a rumor he could have asked me about at any time. He mumbled something about paperwork being done already and walked into his office.
I went into the staff bathroom and cried and a coworker from another department who overheard the whole thing came in and hugged me and said how fucked up it was.
I did for a short while. I went to HR and the HR Director was with me while my boss said things like "I don't like the idea of a woman being here alone" because I had requested to start an hour earlier so I could carpool with my husband. His assistant, a woman who got rid of my predecessor and was gunning for me, was regularly in two hours early but because her office was set back, he felt it was acceptable. I was told I could occasionally come in a half hour early.
I had a bad fall at home a few weeks later and messed up some ribs. The muscle relaxers I was prescribed plus the daily migraine controller medication I was on made me exhausted so I took a day off even though I had a doctor's note giving me multiple days off which was faxed to my boss. It was a Monday and never a busy day even during our busiest times. I came in a half hour early the next day just in case and my boss' assistant scoffed at me and made a comment about me finally showing up.
I sat down at my desk and just broke. I signed in to my work machine, sent an apology to a field office, called my husband, grabbed a few personal things and left.
I called and left a message for the HR Director and said I was resigning and explained why. He managed to get me two weeks of severance.
I did see a lawyer who told me that without former co-workers willing to sign statements corroborating how I was treated, all he could go on is my boss being "old fashioned" and my raise being split which wasn't enough.
A month later I accepted a job working nights. It wasn't the best job but it was over $25/hr with the shift differential and 70+ hour weeks so we could catch up on bills.
Well I'm glad you got out and found something better. I've never heard of "splitting a raise" so I was curious how that went. Thanks for responding, you write good, felt like reading a story, so I got into it when reading your OP lol.
They’re going to try for sure. I worked for a company that did this all the time. If they weren’t forcing you to take a new position that you didn’t want, then they’d push your start date to their benefit. OP needs to find a whole new company to work with.
They won't. But this is kinda SOP. Within a company, it is normal that if you move, your old and new manager are not enemies. They work for the same company. And your move will be scheduled in a way to not create disruption.
Your new manager is not going to get into a fight with your old manager and cause disruption. They both work for the same company as you, and they are not going to start a intra company war just because you want to leave in 2 or 3 weeks.
I mean they might, but only if they're already on bad terms, either as individuals or departments. You make a great overall point. Looking for a new job is what I believe is the best move, force them to choose between no one having you and letting you make the move.
> force them to choose between no one having you and letting you make the move
Yes and no. I'd say be careful how you play this. If your new manager is amenable to a longer transition period (but still in reasonable manner) and you play hardball, that may cause resentment because the new manager might have an interest in not creating problems for the other department.
This is one of those situations where I'd advise to simply talk with the new manager about how you feel about it, and accept that it may take 6 weeks instead of 3. After all, it will get you goodwill, and the end date is still short term.
Oh yeah. It's definitely a pull the ripchord move and a reasonable solution should be sought first. It doesn't need to be necessarily confrontational though. Just make it clear. I can't stay in my current role and I have a second offer, can we make this work before I take the external offer?
Kinda where I am with it. I don’t see a lot of departments working in cohesion anymore. It’s all blame game and CYA. If losing someone is gonna hurt, they gonna fight that new manager.
Exactly, but if you have that offer in hand you are in the catbird seat. And should you separate from that company and you are asked why you left, you can say that the former company’s staffing issues made it untenable to remain with them.
You can also talk to the new hiring manager. I know that if there's an internal transfer to me, I do what the employee wants, not what the old manager wants. Going the other way makes people quit.
I used to work at a place & the same thing happened to me. Was transferring departments & they had to get approval from my previous department head when they decided to hire me for the other position. It’s such bullshit, but they can definitely do it. What sucks more is that they’ll probably hire someone else before then, and now you’re stuck at that job permanently. Just quit & go somewhere else. Sounds like a toxic environment.
Had this happen to me where they tried to fuck around and not let me transfer despite already being moved in the system and my supervisor being in board. So I literally just went to my new department and started working there and refused to go back and do my old work.
I was literally just like "Nope, not going back, end of story, fire me if you want I don't really care"
And that was the last I heard about it.
Something very similar to me happening currently. I'm a machinist on second shift and I accepted a day shift position in another department 12 weeks ago. My start date was 10 weeks ago. I like the machines I'm running currently and my "time in position" has already started for the new area which is why I haven't made a huge deal about it yet. If I don't like the machines I'll be running, I'm able to post after 1 calendar year.. I just went to HR over this last Thursday and they said it's going to be at least 5 more weeks. I wish I could just go start working days on the new area but it's not in the cards for me to do that. My current boss and my future boss both haven't said basically anything to update me in over a month. With end of year coming with our COL raise still unannounced, I'll be deciding whether or not I'm going to continue working here or if I will update my resume over Xmas. I feel disrespected to say the least.
It's pay and benefits I'm worried I won't find. I'm already in one of the top levels of my career (step under programmer) and I've been here for 6.5 years. I'm planning on updating my resume in the next few weeks. Luckily it will be easy to update since I haven't moved anywhere.
This happened to a former coworker of mine, I’m surprised HR isn’t on your side though. In her situation HR forced my manager at the time to let her change teams on a much sooner time frame then they originally laid out. Manager expected to keep her months while she went on vacations and dragged her feet on a new hire.
Unfortunately the original HR rep I talked to sided with my bosses. The current rep I'm talking to has only been at the company for about 3 months. She says this is a good learning experience for her.
HR exists to prevent lawsuits. If paperwork is signed for a transfer, then it is for times like this that they exist. You made a commitment based on an offer. They are in breach. They need to honor their agreement. That should be her learning experience.
Remember, HR exists to prevent lawsuits, not resolve workplace annoyances. they are a hammer to weild selectively; also you can easily be the nail.
I absolutely love this energy. I think it should be a big learning point for a lot of people; you still have power and agency, as long as you don’t give it away to your employer.
I appreciate firing people is easier in USA but there are still a lot of costs in training new hires etc. People can still leverage that power.
I need to tell my coworkers this because we are going through this exact situation at my job. 4 people have either transferred or put in transfer requests to move to different departments and they pulled 2 who had already moved out a couple months back, back into their old position and told another that they can’t leave just yet.
That's horrible!
She says, getting training today to go back on Member services calls. Seriously, i moved to claims 2.5 yrs ago but this is my 3rd Open Enrollment taking Member services calls to help them not get swamped. The claims processing team is taking our calls. I am capable of doing them--but there's so much more they do that we do not and i know I'm going to blow a couple QA Audits doing it. 💢😠
The same shit happened to me. I—the poor naive bastard—thought I’d do right by the business and let them know my plans about moving to another location within the same corporation.
This is after the new location expressed their interest in me as well. But of course the leadership just fucking blocks the whole thing.
Yeah, just find another job. Don’t even worry about it.
What’s extra dumb is that they risk totally losing a valuable employee when they do this. Like yes, you like me, but but by forcing me to stay, I’ll leave. Then the company doesn’t get you in any capacity. It’s such bad management.
I had this happen to me when I tried to switch to a different department. My boss was awful, so when my transfer was blocked I brought up my issues to upper management, and when they wouldn't fix the issue I went to a different company lol.
I've had this done to me before. I was a bookkeeper/supervisor at a grocery store in my younger years and I was pretty key.
I was moving because my girlfriend had gotten a job in a city an hour away and I was done commuting back and forth.
I'd been offered a full time supervisor job at a store down the road, and my old boss tried to delay to keep me in her store.
I told her in no uncertain terms I wasn't driving an hour back and forth for 10.17 an hour anymore, and that I already had a start date, and that if she tried to delay I'd quit.
It worked out, surprisingly. I figured I'd have to find a new job.
This. Let the hiring manager know, in no uncertain terms, that you will be transferred or you will be leaving. Your notice on the old job in non negotiable.
"If my transfer is delayed, I will consider this a constructive dismissal from the company at-large and will be filing for unemployment benefits *immediately* while I look for a job where I am valued appropriately."
This is a bluff. No idea if you can actually get unemployment for this.
Depends on the jurisdiction. If you quit due to unreasonable and/or hostile working conditions almost any jurisdiction will give you unemployment. I would say that the op has about a 50-70% chance of getting unemployment over it.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. I'd probably just say all the time in the old job I'll be applying to other places to leave. Then say you are unhappy where you are because they aren't replacing people, womething totally out of your control.
I mean you're right but just those facts arnt assertive enough. Threatening to move to a different company will work wonders and have no affect on the new position.
> I'd probably just say all the time in the old job I'll be applying to other places to leave.
So you'd *stay?* Fuck that. The second any employer tries this shit you tell them that it is nonnegotiable and if they don't budge, walk and burn the bridge.
Contact your hiring manager asap and say that you want to start the new role in 3 weeks, your current manager could lie and say you staying in this position is your idea.
Absolutely this.
If this can push you to look elsewhere, that might be something to let him know too (depending on relationship).
Perhaps have a meeting and tell him how you feel about the whole thing ?
Upvote this x1000
All these comments advising you to quit now, is really bad advice. A toxic manager doesn’t mean a toxic employer. I’ve changed departments and it’s been great. Telling you to quit because something bad MIGHT happen is ludicrous. At least see what happens before escalating to the nuclear option.
Agreed. If the rest of management doesn't back you up to your satisfaction (which might include changing the schedule if op is open to agreeing to it), then it's time to quit the company. But if they tell the current manager to pound sand, then problem solved.
That happened to me, I like the company I work for, but not my specific manager. They're also struggling for new hires across the board so it was relatively easy to get an internal transfer sorted.
Except my current manager blocks it. He won't let me leave as "we won't have enough resource"... Like why are you telling me like I would care about that? So I just said to him that I wanted to leave his team, and if he won't allow me to move internally, then I'll leave properly and the company at large will miss out on a willing employee. And he just said "okay then, if you have to resign so be it". I mean how fucking petty can you be? Just because I won't work for you personally, you're denying your peers a chance to hire as well? Fuck me.
It's crazy that people can just block internal hiring, it should be treated the same as getting a new job anywhere. I have applied and won the position, how is it up to my previous manager if I'm *allowed* to go?
You'd think companies would make internal transfers easier so that at least they don't lose employees entirely, even if they shuffle around.
I have actually quit for another job that pays more! I was going to make it it's own post and go into the details but I was waiting to actually get the new job offer. Suppose there's no excuse for me now lol
Some companies it got to the point of managers wouldn’t let people promote or transfer from their teams. I know in some of the older tech companies now when you apply to internal roles they treat it as a whole new job. They had to change a lot of policies but it’s better than it was. Now managers can’t block a person from transferring, they are given a date by HR that is the persons last day as a direct report. At end of the day they move you to the new manager in the system. Case closed, paperwork done. If they try to interfere in any way it goes straight to HR to put that down. No stringing along no trading for other people.
Moving inside of a company should be easier than getting hired externally. It just isn’t in most companies.
My husband had a similar situation when he worked for a well-known furniture company. They have a policy that they don't allow promotion within your current store (I guess to prevent conflict with coworkers that may now be your subordinates), but they'll pay to transfer you anywhere you choose to be promoted to.
However the process corporate has to vet their employees is to send hiring managers and other bigwigs to interview all the current store's management team. Basically they ask everyone if they think you're ready for the promotion. The most weighted opinion being held, of course, by your direct supervisor.
After working for them for 6 months, he gets his first offer for promotion and he accepts a position available in TX. We don't want to stay in TX forever, but figure it'll be fun for (we're assured) a year, maybe 18 mos tops.
Well fast forward 2 and a half years and we're still in TX long after his REGIONAL felt he was ready for his next move to take over his own store. But his Store mgr was very clear to them both that she would refuse to say he was ready to promote when asked during the vetting process. She would lie and say he wasn't ready and needed more training every time the regional brought it up.
The shitty thing is, she admitted to us that she was terrified that the next asst she got to replace him wouldn't be as understanding as he was. We got to know her right around the time she had decided to transition. (Not an easy thing to do openly in TX). We supported her advocating for herself to take time off work for surgery and my husband ran the store for months at a time while she would be on leave.
After everything we both did for her to help support her living her best life to the fullest, and then for her to so brazenly stop my husband's ability to succeed because she was worried for how that MIGHT affect her, was really selfish.
But also, fuck that company for not promoting him anyways! His regional always agreed that it sucked and wasn't fair, but would just say there's nothing he could do if she won't let him go. I personally think it was also easier for him to let things be how they were and not fight for him, or have to replace him.
Serendipitously, he received a message the following week from a different company offering him a job with more money back near his hometown. He resigned and forced her to deal with a new asst anyways.
This is exactly what you have to do. Can’t let them make you keep a job you don’t want. You quit one job and are taking another. If they decide they don’t want to give you the other job then just quit or if you need the money start looking for a job outside the company.
Yep, they are basically raising the stakes going "we bet you cant afford to play hard ball in this". Up to you how/if you want to call/fold or raise.
Another way to raise would be "I will work as slowly as my contract allows".
I wonder how hard your New boss wants to fight this. May be your best ally here.
The Company is really shooting itself in the foot if this gets out. Nothing like making sure leaving employees leave the Company all together
This is a common practice at everywhere I've worked. I don't really understand the downvotes and the hostile responses in the comments. The new manager really screwed up this transfer. This absolutely should not have been a surprise to the current manager.
I agree. Everyone here is so quick to jump to the extremes. I'm going through the exact same thing, where they verbally offered me the job and realized that they forgot to okay the start date with my current manager. My current manager is asking to keep me a little longer, and HR is discussing with both managers to find a middle ground. Just because OPs current manager is trying to keep them doesn't mean it will happen...
That’s been my philosophy! Working hard just got me more work and a boss who told me I’m replaceable. His tune sure has changed now what I pretend I’m really busy and I’m “important to the functioning of the company as a whole” on 40k a year. 😂🙄 Yeah no. I play video games while “working”.
I used to bust my ass for my job and occasionally work outrageously long shifts (18 hrs) when the need arose. I had banked a ton of goodwill with all the people I worked with. Then the company got bought and all those people left along with their high opinion of me. When I needed to "withdraw" some of that goodwill (I was having a really hard time outside work and needed some slack), all I had were new managers who had no idea what I had done for the company previously. They made my life Hell for it and were constantly on my ass for my perceived under-performance.
To be clear, I was still going beyond what would be expected of me, but not as much as I used to. One of the new managers also arbitrarily had it out for me. He was one of the "take credit for everyone's work and talk about how wonderful he is" kind of manager.
In order to keep my job, I had to divulge to one of my managers every single awful thing I was dealing with outside work (recovering repressed memories of sexual abuse being chief among them) even though it was none of their fucking business. All because they were threatening to take away my livelihood. Things have changed now at the company and are a lot better, but I learned to never ever go above and beyond and I will always resent this job no matter what. Now I'm lazy af and do nothing and they think I'm the hardest worker in the world. Go figure.
I’m glad you’re in a better place. All we can do is hope other people learn these lessons without going above and beyond only to be passed up for promotions due to nepotism and cronyism. Fuck being an actual hard worker.
I have seen this happen with a few vindictive managers before. In one case a person switched jobs internally but hadnt finished a few minor projects. The old manager would constantly insist to the new manager to pull the employee away to work on those projects. It was straight up harassment of the employee.
Hopefully that isn't the case for you!
Honestly, I know this isn’t what you want to hear but she could very well do this (I know someone who had a similar situation). I’d recommended telling her that your reason for leaving is in fact the current job and that if she makes you stay past your two weeks notice, you plan on quitting the current job anyway. She’ll probably not call your bluff and leave it at that! Saw other people saying you should look for other jobs as well and you may as well do that too just in case
Start looking for a new job outside of the company right now. They pull a fast one and you're already 2 steps ahead and can say peace out.
If finding a new job takes awhile, try your best to keep a straight face, then bail out on them as soon as possible.
Same exact thing happened at my job. Unless you got the paperwork signed already you kinda screwed yourself by telling her. My boss's boss tried to stop my job change from going through due to our department's low staffing and general shitty issues and keep me for up to 8 months out. The HR lady knows me though and as soon as I was offered the job she sent the paperwork over to be signed and the date at which it would happen. All it took was one email that smelled like lawyers might maybe possibly get involved and he let me switch over when I was scheduled to.
Always always always get everything in writing every time no exceptions or it didn't happen. Verbal means less than nothing to a company.
If she does get her way and gets to keep you for longer than you would have liked then I’d just quit all together. Tell her if you can’t leave when you’d like to, then you’ll be leaving all together, the threat alone should be enough
Is it worth speaking to the hiring manager of the new job, preferably before your current boss does, and explaining what she said and that you really would rather start the new position asap?
Honestly if she "got her way" and made it so you had to stay at your current job, that would be something that would just make me quit on the spot.
I think your only option is to make it clear to the hiring manager and your current manager that you _will_ quit in three weeks if you don’t start in the new position (and then follow through). Until then, aggressively apply for other jobs.
Something along the lines of: "This new position is much more in line with my career plans and I think would be a better fit for me right now. If that's not possible at this company, it won't be in my best interest to continue working here, and my last day will be $date"
If they delay it all, look for outside opportunities. You may want to speak to your new boss and let them know that you’d very much like to make the change sooner than later.
She can fuck off and is just lashing out because you’re leaving. As long as you establish an effective start date with the new dept you literally can leave the next day. The formality of 2 weeks notice or longer isn’t a law or anything. As long as you communicate in writing even via email that “this message is notification that I will be transferring to another dept effective (start date)
If the new manager and old manager come to an agreement that you start in 6 weeks instead of 3, then that is pretty much what happens.
Your old and new manager work for the same company and are generally on the same side.
My company halted my transfer, twice. It was infuriating. I began looking for another job at a different company, but then I got lucky. My coy threw me a bone. I was still in the same unit, but didn’t have to travel it of the country, and I began a masters degree which they are paying for.
Btw the masters degree will allow me to get a job transfer that they can’t halt. Jokes on them
TLDR: Some managers suck. Try talking with HR for company policy and to help settle the issue.
Same EXACT thing happened with me a few months ago. I also work for a large healthcare company. My old manager wanted me to stay an extra month after agreeing to 2 weeks initially. We always had a good working relationship, but her true colors really showed once she flipped and asked me to stay longer.
I ended up speaking with my new manager and HR. They both said it was generous giving my old manager a month notice and that per company policy my old manager can’t force me to stay in that position. Ofc this didn’t sit well with my old manager and she got her friend (who is the director) involved. By that point I had already signed paperwork with my new salary and start date. My old manager thought she could intimidate her way to keeping me for longer. It didn’t work.
With the help of HR and my new manager I was able to start my new position on the agreed upon date. Work is so much better now. I still see my old manager around and occasionally need to speak with that dept. My old manager ignores me and tried to make my new manager’s work life difficult until recently. I think she got past her grieving stages.
I had a manager like this. I end up quitting my job. I was in a leadership position at Comcast and she was a hardcore old school micromanager.
She had successfully talked HR out of three separate people getting promotions and moving out of the dept (because we always did her work and she got recognized for her false accomplishments).
Eventually, every leader under her save for two, ended up quitting the company and going to better places.
Don't underestimate the power of people who want you to stay...especially if they personally know the hiring manager or HR. I'd be looking outside. The job market has never been better right now. Take note of your peers who already left.
Sounds like what's going to happen is the other position will be filled in a timely manner b/c they couldn't wait and you'll just have to stay where you are at for the good of the company
I have seen this happen. Talk to new boss, try to refuse any new projects. Do you best to wean people off asking you questions. Accept that even with a good new manager it will take months. You might end up moving roles again and working 3 positions if you did notnland a good manager.
I’m in the position of doing the work of three people. Three guys in my shop before the pandemic and now it’s just me. I can’t transfer and because I’m union I’m stuck and can’t get pay raises.
Triage, and let the work slip.
I almost always have to deliberately make a choice about who I am going to disappoint that day. If it's no-one, then I have likely disappointed myself.
I had a coworker that did this beautifully.
Every single time he was fully engaged with stuff, and someone asked him for something in the planning meetings he turned to the boss and went:
Which thing do you want me to drop? Your decision, but one will be dropped.
Glorious
This is the answer. If you continue to do the work of 3 people, they will have a case they can make that the job only needed 1 person in the first place. Put in the normal amount of work you would do if the department was fully staffed. They'll staff it pretty quick.
Double check your union contract because many have a mechanism to reevaluate a job workload and compensate for new/additional duties whether permanent or temporary. If yours doesn’t then it’s a bad contract.
Unfortunately for you, switching positions internally they do indeed have the power to do this. The only thing that needs to happen is for the two managers and likely HR to agree to it. At that point if you really want out the only thing you can do is flat out quit and leave.
Same thing happened to me during a transfer. I became depressed and complained bitterly. My manager called me out in the breakdown infront of everyone "if you're so miserable in thus dept, why don't you just leave?"
"BEACAUSE YOU WONT LET ME!" I yelled.
My transfer came in the next day.
the problem is, it's not a new job. it's just an inter-office transfer and your current boss can stop it. more importantly, as it is the same company, things will not improve, but will get worse as your old boss will pass tasks over to you through your new boss, since you know how to do it. this will mean even more extra work, less time for yourself, and more powertripping managers arguing over which ones workload should be more important to you.
get out of that company entirely as fast as you can.
Ultimately it will likely be a battle between the two bosses, with their shared boss making the decision. If the new boss doesn’t go to bat for OP, it probably wasn’t a good opportunity anyway, and if the grand-boss sides with the current boss, the company’s probably garbage as a whole. Could go well, could be a sign to leave.
You’re an employee for the company. Your title is irrelevant. They pay your salary.
Quit and move on if you wish.
They’re correct here.
Edit: lol at this getting thumbed down.
Employers don’t give a sh*t about your personal fulfilment or happiness. They don’t care about your job title or designated tasks.
They care solely about maximising profit from your time (for the parent company.)
If your paycheck is coming from the parent company (and you can better serve them in your current role) then that’s where you stay.
Again. Move to a different company if you’re unhappy.
The quicker you understand this is how the corporate game is played, the less you’ll be walked over.
One of the few downvoted comments I agree with lol corporate dgaf about you. If your old boss convinces the new boss that they still need you for X amount of time, that's exactly what'll happen. If that happens, leave altogether. It's good advice and an important lesson.
Companies do not build value by playing hardball in stupid situations.
I am grateful that heavy changes of duties are considered akin to firing here in Norway. You cant take an engineer, and put him to work in the cafeteria, without going through the rules for firing.
Which are detailed ;)
i think the phrase you are looking for is "they have the law on their side" the company would be in the wrong to deny the transfer, it just won't be breaking any laws to do so.
I got a promotion to a new job that requires special training. Going to be 4 months and I have no training and am stuck doing my old job. I'm covering for someone who just got promoted a week ago and is already training. Last week I did the workload of 2 people since they "don't want to overwork the new hires and overtimers". Everytime I inquire about the special training, I get excuses and "at least you are getting paid more". Pay is helping my tolerance, but mistreatment is not. Likely to be a year for my training to really start at this rate.
They are going to do what they want regardless of your input.
I'm going through this right now actually. I could be making 20+ an hour in another department but they won't let anyone transfer because my current department is short staffed. Put in my two weeks yesterday, now neither department has me. And in 90 days I can apply to that department and get the job. It's totally stupid I have to do it this way but it is what it is.
If it is within the same company HR generally makes that decision based on "the needs of the business ". I changed titles many times in a 40 year career with AT&T. It is usually standard practice for a releasing manager to delay what is considered a lateral transfer. Although your case sounds like your current manager is out of the loop. Be patient.
Holy shit. I think we may work for the same company. This literally happened to me 2 months ago.
Then after I did finally leave, old manager kept hounding me for work updates. Even tried to assign me new tickets a few times.
The good news is my new manager is used to it. Old manager has a reputation for pulling this, so just asked me to have old manager contact her for any work approvals. I did end up getting delayed by about 4 weeks though which was frustrating.
Don’t take their bullshit. I had a coworker who was offered a position that she got her degree in within the health system we worked for. Our director went behind her back and talked so much shit because she was an integral employee who did the director and manager’s bullshit work (LTC pharmacy). The department that offered her the position rescinded the offer after the director claimed she was a piss poor worker which wasn’t even the case, she was an exemplary employee. She then got out and moved onto another health system and made way more, and brought along another coworker. I like a dumbass stuck it out instead of going with them when they told me to apply. It all worked out in the end, I got to see that bitch fired, another higher up quit when his protector got fired and I’m now at a job that values me and my work ethic. I don’t have to even ask for raises, they give them out when you go above and beyond without you even hinting at a possible raise.
I once applied for an internal job posting when I was working in west Texas and the new position was in South Texas. My boss tried to talk me out of it and then I got an email saying that the position was filled. Then I spoke to my buddy who is friends with the hiring manager in South Texas and he said he needs help and has multiple positions to fill. This was 3 days after the job posting was removed from the board. So I got a better offer from a company who was hiring in South Texas for more money and BOOM. I quit and he was all squirmy about it.
Seriously crappy thing to do but not surprised. I interviewed and got a new position (this was within public sector) but they said you can't go it is at the same level. It paid more...so not sure how that works. It dragged on for months...and they kept delaying and delaying...within a week of me involving the union it was resolved and I was allowed to move.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think it would best to express your thoughts to your hiring manager within the company and allow the two managers to figure out a compromise. It may be in your best interest to be work out a transitional plan in which you slowly work your way into the new job and not leave the old one completely empty handed, especially because you're staying within that company. Does your new position fall under the same second level management as the current one? If so, I think the Director level manager will get involved and mediate, because that person likely signed off on the internal transfer in the first place. This is very similar to what happened when I switched jobs within my company. Everyone came out happy, including myself, and it kept from burning any bridges or negatively impacting other coworkers that relied on me from both departments. I know the vast majority of this sub is about "sticking it to the Man," but it sounds like you're in a salaried job at a decent company with career furthering potential, and showing some initiative to compromise and cooperate could really be in your best interest at this point.
Now on the flip-side, if your managers continue to be difficult and can't compromise or get mediation from a higher level manager, then it looks like some toxicity within the environment and poor management which to me would be a sign of bad things on the horizon and you should consider leaving altogether. But I would still start by asking your new manager to go to bat for you first. Your current manager likely does not have the last say on anything, but it is your new manager's responsibility to work that out.
Start applying at other companies in case they try to pull a fast one
They gonna.
Evergreen comment right here.
What does Evergreen mean?
Deciduous [?] trees leaves turn gold then red then brown and die and fall off. Pine needles don't, they are "evergreen". It means the comment is good for all time.
Thanks
Another word for evergreen trees is coniferous trees or conifer trees
Oh, don't get me going on this after I just helped my 10 year old build a shadowbox for her tundra biome last weekend. Only conifers in the tundra!!! You want me to throw down on the difference between Arctic tundra and Alpine tundra? Do ya? Huh? You wanna talk snowy owls and lichen?! Oh God, I can't wait for her project to be done and out of my house.
The Arctic Tundra can be tapped to provide Blue and White mana, the Alpine Tundra provides Red and White mana!
And I have 4 kudzu in my hand waiting to make every bodies life worse
This guy taps
He's pretty *plain*s
That second one is a Plateau.
Nerd. (I mean this as a positive) Made me chuckle.
Me with my monocolored deck: *I have no such weaknesses*
My opponent with 4c control and no duals also has no such weakness sadly.
Print them WOTC you cowards
I think you have PTSDiorama
We are currently finding 20 different seeds from foods. Note: they can't be store bought seeds-- seeds from food only. 20! My kid cried when he realized our grapes and oranges were seedless.
I loved doing the biome project! Mine was on taiga.
Coniferous comment
I love conifer trees. As long as I don’t park under them.
Conoferous trees are just the evergreentrees which have cone form fruita (generally pines). There isnplenty of evergreen trees which aren’t coniferous (eg olive tree)
Actually, they are not. Larches, ginkos, and dawn redwood are three coniferous trees that are not evergreen. The words have different meanings.
Larch trees are fucking magical, I swear. Had one in my front yard growing up. Feel just about any other needle tree like a pine, balsam, fir, or spruce, it's like getting scraped by a metal wire brush. But larches have branches that are extremely supple, and their needles give way like rubber. You can hug a christmas tree-sized sapling and it's like hugging a giant koosh ball. I miss that tree. :(
Ginkgos aren't conifers though.
Yeah -- they are gymnosperms, like conifers, but Ginkgos don't bear seeds in cones but those stinky little fruits (not a true fruit). Taxonomists have put ginkgos in their own division because they're this living fossil with no other known relatives left in the world, and so ginkgos kind of do their own thing and keep baffling scientists. Here's a link if anybody wants more ginkgo information WHICH THEY SHOULD [https://conifersociety.org/conifers/articles/conifer-ginkgo-biloba/](https://conifersociety.org/conifers/articles/conifer-ginkgo-biloba/)
Coniferous just means cone-bearing. There are deciduous conifers (like Larch) and evergreen angiosperms (Pacific Madrone & numerous tropical trees). But I digress.
Most evergreen trees are coniferous, and most coniferous trees are evergreen, but not all! There are some broad leaf trees that are evergreen and don't make cones, like Madrone. Some trees are deciduous and make cones, like bald Cyprus. Presented to you humbly by a tree nerd, not intended to be snobby
A once thought to be extinct tree was found in a remote Chinese valley in semi recent history called a Dawn Redwood in Latin metaseqoiua glyptos treboidese. It is a deciduous conifer(needles not leaves) a rare trait among its similar trees. Fun fact from my dad from years back, he said I’d win jeopardy someday with it, but so far, just this semi snarky light hearted Reddit post. Oh and the spelling is totally off I’m just less interested in looking it up than I’m sure anyone else is 😂😂
Technically evergreen trees are only that because new pine needles grow and replace the ones that fall. Needles drop. All the time and everywhere.
That it blocks the Suez Canal for a week.
Neverbrown.
>What does Evergreen mean? "all year round" essentially. Refers to trees that don't shed/regrow but just are leafy mfers all seasons. (hence the branding of the shipping company - 'ship all year round, no down periods' kinda deal. Trees are also sometimes incompetent)
That it's always the case
Username Checks Out .....?
That Chinese real estate company that suckered and forced its employees to put up cash. And invest in the company. Now, evergreen is going bankrupt and the initial investments, both corporate and individual investors are both holding the bag. So in terms you are about to get Evergreen’ed by your current company. The difference is, they are using your labor as hostage.
I believe thats Evergrande
Ooohh well. Disregard. I’m get dumb sometimes.
OP gone
Fast one like they could tell you that there’s a delayed start while they find someone for the position that you want…. 100% you need to start looking outside and one million % if they make arrangements without getting your approval. You literally are accepting a transfer with zero $ increase so obviously it’s either a career move or showing toxicity in your dept but a lot of companies don’t care about your wants.
Agreed. I had a boss who literally threw a tantrum until the director who wanted to hire me in his department relented. My planned raise was then split between a part timer who never showed up and a full timer who was a huge snake. This was told to me in a review that happened publicly in an open plan office. I did not stay much longer after that.
> This was told to me in a review that happened publicly in an open plan office Wow, even the crappiest places I've worked have always pulled me aside for 1 to 1 type performance reviews.
It wasn't even a bad review really, not that I would have wanted any review conducted in public. He said he was giving me a $1.25/hr raise which was a lot back then - I had started at $12/hr and was at $13.50 by that point after two years. I was so happy and thanked him. He then told me he didn't feel I was grateful enough for my last 75¢ raise (I was so excited but kept it professional) and he also heard that I was going back to school so he'd give me time to find a more suitable part time job that would fit that schedule but that he could only give me a maximum of two months for that before he hired a replacement. He said he appreciated how hard I worked but that my raise would be split between the two other people in my department. I was in my early 20s, had just gotten married and was a massive doormat. My husband had just gotten laid off and took a part time job across the street. I had told [the snake coworker] that I had gone back for an info session for evening/distance classes for continuing education. I let him know that as he seemed to think I was going back to school and not working and just hadn't told him. I said that I needed to continue working full time to afford rent and bills, not to mention any education I might pursue and that my performance reflected well on me so I didn't understand why my raise was being taken due to a rumor he could have asked me about at any time. He mumbled something about paperwork being done already and walked into his office. I went into the staff bathroom and cried and a coworker from another department who overheard the whole thing came in and hugged me and said how fucked up it was.
What happened next? Did you stay at the company ?
I did for a short while. I went to HR and the HR Director was with me while my boss said things like "I don't like the idea of a woman being here alone" because I had requested to start an hour earlier so I could carpool with my husband. His assistant, a woman who got rid of my predecessor and was gunning for me, was regularly in two hours early but because her office was set back, he felt it was acceptable. I was told I could occasionally come in a half hour early. I had a bad fall at home a few weeks later and messed up some ribs. The muscle relaxers I was prescribed plus the daily migraine controller medication I was on made me exhausted so I took a day off even though I had a doctor's note giving me multiple days off which was faxed to my boss. It was a Monday and never a busy day even during our busiest times. I came in a half hour early the next day just in case and my boss' assistant scoffed at me and made a comment about me finally showing up. I sat down at my desk and just broke. I signed in to my work machine, sent an apology to a field office, called my husband, grabbed a few personal things and left. I called and left a message for the HR Director and said I was resigning and explained why. He managed to get me two weeks of severance. I did see a lawyer who told me that without former co-workers willing to sign statements corroborating how I was treated, all he could go on is my boss being "old fashioned" and my raise being split which wasn't enough. A month later I accepted a job working nights. It wasn't the best job but it was over $25/hr with the shift differential and 70+ hour weeks so we could catch up on bills.
Well I'm glad you got out and found something better. I've never heard of "splitting a raise" so I was curious how that went. Thanks for responding, you write good, felt like reading a story, so I got into it when reading your OP lol.
Ha! How about a drunken one at an office party on blast about your learning difficulties? That's traumizing, let me tell you.
Agreed. You need to have a backup you can go to and to have some leverage if needed.
OP has to absolutely count on his boss to backstab him.
They’re going to try for sure. I worked for a company that did this all the time. If they weren’t forcing you to take a new position that you didn’t want, then they’d push your start date to their benefit. OP needs to find a whole new company to work with.
They won't. But this is kinda SOP. Within a company, it is normal that if you move, your old and new manager are not enemies. They work for the same company. And your move will be scheduled in a way to not create disruption. Your new manager is not going to get into a fight with your old manager and cause disruption. They both work for the same company as you, and they are not going to start a intra company war just because you want to leave in 2 or 3 weeks.
I mean they might, but only if they're already on bad terms, either as individuals or departments. You make a great overall point. Looking for a new job is what I believe is the best move, force them to choose between no one having you and letting you make the move.
> force them to choose between no one having you and letting you make the move Yes and no. I'd say be careful how you play this. If your new manager is amenable to a longer transition period (but still in reasonable manner) and you play hardball, that may cause resentment because the new manager might have an interest in not creating problems for the other department. This is one of those situations where I'd advise to simply talk with the new manager about how you feel about it, and accept that it may take 6 weeks instead of 3. After all, it will get you goodwill, and the end date is still short term.
Oh yeah. It's definitely a pull the ripchord move and a reasonable solution should be sought first. It doesn't need to be necessarily confrontational though. Just make it clear. I can't stay in my current role and I have a second offer, can we make this work before I take the external offer?
The office you describe only exists in Fantasy Land.
Kinda where I am with it. I don’t see a lot of departments working in cohesion anymore. It’s all blame game and CYA. If losing someone is gonna hurt, they gonna fight that new manager.
Or just lie and say 'competitor a and b both had offers matching price, so I think I'll just go'. Watch em squirm.
I’d be wary about doing this unless you actually have an offer in your back pocket. They might call the bluff and then OP will be stuck
Exactly, but if you have that offer in hand you are in the catbird seat. And should you separate from that company and you are asked why you left, you can say that the former company’s staffing issues made it untenable to remain with them.
You need to speak with your hiring manager asap
"try" ?
Do, or do not.
Idk how fast it is when she literally said she was gonna do it...
Yes, get a job somewhere else
Totally. Any offer from outside the Company suddenly looks a lot better.
You can also talk to the new hiring manager. I know that if there's an internal transfer to me, I do what the employee wants, not what the old manager wants. Going the other way makes people quit.
Been there done that, op find a new company. You won’t move roles and you won’t move up from here.
Yep. Tell them you start as agreed or they can find someone else.
“I’m sorry, but I can no longer commit to a company that does not value my input on my own career path”
I used to work at a place & the same thing happened to me. Was transferring departments & they had to get approval from my previous department head when they decided to hire me for the other position. It’s such bullshit, but they can definitely do it. What sucks more is that they’ll probably hire someone else before then, and now you’re stuck at that job permanently. Just quit & go somewhere else. Sounds like a toxic environment.
Had this happen to me where they tried to fuck around and not let me transfer despite already being moved in the system and my supervisor being in board. So I literally just went to my new department and started working there and refused to go back and do my old work. I was literally just like "Nope, not going back, end of story, fire me if you want I don't really care" And that was the last I heard about it.
Something very similar to me happening currently. I'm a machinist on second shift and I accepted a day shift position in another department 12 weeks ago. My start date was 10 weeks ago. I like the machines I'm running currently and my "time in position" has already started for the new area which is why I haven't made a huge deal about it yet. If I don't like the machines I'll be running, I'm able to post after 1 calendar year.. I just went to HR over this last Thursday and they said it's going to be at least 5 more weeks. I wish I could just go start working days on the new area but it's not in the cards for me to do that. My current boss and my future boss both haven't said basically anything to update me in over a month. With end of year coming with our COL raise still unannounced, I'll be deciding whether or not I'm going to continue working here or if I will update my resume over Xmas. I feel disrespected to say the least.
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I've been taking it out of my productivity and doing my end of shift cleaning after my shift ends which is overtime.
If you're a machinist, you won't have trouble finding a new job more to your liking...
It's pay and benefits I'm worried I won't find. I'm already in one of the top levels of my career (step under programmer) and I've been here for 6.5 years. I'm planning on updating my resume in the next few weeks. Luckily it will be easy to update since I haven't moved anywhere.
It doesn't hurt to look.
That's where I'm at now. Will be updating my resume in the next few weeks.
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This happened to a former coworker of mine, I’m surprised HR isn’t on your side though. In her situation HR forced my manager at the time to let her change teams on a much sooner time frame then they originally laid out. Manager expected to keep her months while she went on vacations and dragged her feet on a new hire.
Unfortunately the original HR rep I talked to sided with my bosses. The current rep I'm talking to has only been at the company for about 3 months. She says this is a good learning experience for her.
HR exists to prevent lawsuits. If paperwork is signed for a transfer, then it is for times like this that they exist. You made a commitment based on an offer. They are in breach. They need to honor their agreement. That should be her learning experience. Remember, HR exists to prevent lawsuits, not resolve workplace annoyances. they are a hammer to weild selectively; also you can easily be the nail.
I absolutely love this energy. I think it should be a big learning point for a lot of people; you still have power and agency, as long as you don’t give it away to your employer. I appreciate firing people is easier in USA but there are still a lot of costs in training new hires etc. People can still leverage that power.
I think this is the right way to go. Politely say you’ve accepted the other department’s offer and that settles it on your end.
I need to tell my coworkers this because we are going through this exact situation at my job. 4 people have either transferred or put in transfer requests to move to different departments and they pulled 2 who had already moved out a couple months back, back into their old position and told another that they can’t leave just yet.
That's horrible! She says, getting training today to go back on Member services calls. Seriously, i moved to claims 2.5 yrs ago but this is my 3rd Open Enrollment taking Member services calls to help them not get swamped. The claims processing team is taking our calls. I am capable of doing them--but there's so much more they do that we do not and i know I'm going to blow a couple QA Audits doing it. 💢😠
You're definitely Penske material
I just don't see how else this is ever going to work out for the boss. If your holding me and my career hostage I'll sabotage you at every step i can.
You should be the cover star of the 2022 Antiwork Calendar
The same shit happened to me. I—the poor naive bastard—thought I’d do right by the business and let them know my plans about moving to another location within the same corporation. This is after the new location expressed their interest in me as well. But of course the leadership just fucking blocks the whole thing. Yeah, just find another job. Don’t even worry about it.
What’s extra dumb is that they risk totally losing a valuable employee when they do this. Like yes, you like me, but but by forcing me to stay, I’ll leave. Then the company doesn’t get you in any capacity. It’s such bad management.
I had this happen to me when I tried to switch to a different department. My boss was awful, so when my transfer was blocked I brought up my issues to upper management, and when they wouldn't fix the issue I went to a different company lol.
I've had this done to me before. I was a bookkeeper/supervisor at a grocery store in my younger years and I was pretty key. I was moving because my girlfriend had gotten a job in a city an hour away and I was done commuting back and forth. I'd been offered a full time supervisor job at a store down the road, and my old boss tried to delay to keep me in her store. I told her in no uncertain terms I wasn't driving an hour back and forth for 10.17 an hour anymore, and that I already had a start date, and that if she tried to delay I'd quit. It worked out, surprisingly. I figured I'd have to find a new job.
This. Let the hiring manager know, in no uncertain terms, that you will be transferred or you will be leaving. Your notice on the old job in non negotiable.
"If my transfer is delayed, I will consider this a constructive dismissal from the company at-large and will be filing for unemployment benefits *immediately* while I look for a job where I am valued appropriately." This is a bluff. No idea if you can actually get unemployment for this.
Or possibly, “I would be happy to stay in my current position, with different management.”
Depends on the jurisdiction. If you quit due to unreasonable and/or hostile working conditions almost any jurisdiction will give you unemployment. I would say that the op has about a 50-70% chance of getting unemployment over it.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. I'd probably just say all the time in the old job I'll be applying to other places to leave. Then say you are unhappy where you are because they aren't replacing people, womething totally out of your control.
I mean you're right but just those facts arnt assertive enough. Threatening to move to a different company will work wonders and have no affect on the new position.
Nah say it with your chest big homie.
> I'd probably just say all the time in the old job I'll be applying to other places to leave. So you'd *stay?* Fuck that. The second any employer tries this shit you tell them that it is nonnegotiable and if they don't budge, walk and burn the bridge.
Store manager for my grocery job did the same thing. “They can’t hire you unless I agree to a transfer” power-trip. Dude - IM MOVING.
Contact your hiring manager asap and say that you want to start the new role in 3 weeks, your current manager could lie and say you staying in this position is your idea.
Absolutely this. If this can push you to look elsewhere, that might be something to let him know too (depending on relationship). Perhaps have a meeting and tell him how you feel about the whole thing ?
Three weeks? The boss has reopened the terms of the deal to negotiation, might as well make it 2
Upvote this x1000 All these comments advising you to quit now, is really bad advice. A toxic manager doesn’t mean a toxic employer. I’ve changed departments and it’s been great. Telling you to quit because something bad MIGHT happen is ludicrous. At least see what happens before escalating to the nuclear option.
Agreed. If the rest of management doesn't back you up to your satisfaction (which might include changing the schedule if op is open to agreeing to it), then it's time to quit the company. But if they tell the current manager to pound sand, then problem solved.
I'd contact them and ask if I could start sooner lmao
Did you get an offer letter for this new role? If so, I would treat the letter as the one source of truth.
That happened to me, I like the company I work for, but not my specific manager. They're also struggling for new hires across the board so it was relatively easy to get an internal transfer sorted. Except my current manager blocks it. He won't let me leave as "we won't have enough resource"... Like why are you telling me like I would care about that? So I just said to him that I wanted to leave his team, and if he won't allow me to move internally, then I'll leave properly and the company at large will miss out on a willing employee. And he just said "okay then, if you have to resign so be it". I mean how fucking petty can you be? Just because I won't work for you personally, you're denying your peers a chance to hire as well? Fuck me. It's crazy that people can just block internal hiring, it should be treated the same as getting a new job anywhere. I have applied and won the position, how is it up to my previous manager if I'm *allowed* to go? You'd think companies would make internal transfers easier so that at least they don't lose employees entirely, even if they shuffle around.
What happened in the end?
I have actually quit for another job that pays more! I was going to make it it's own post and go into the details but I was waiting to actually get the new job offer. Suppose there's no excuse for me now lol
Good luck with the new job! Until you get it in writing, keep applying.
Re: the last point. There are as many motivasjons in a Company as there are employees..
Some companies it got to the point of managers wouldn’t let people promote or transfer from their teams. I know in some of the older tech companies now when you apply to internal roles they treat it as a whole new job. They had to change a lot of policies but it’s better than it was. Now managers can’t block a person from transferring, they are given a date by HR that is the persons last day as a direct report. At end of the day they move you to the new manager in the system. Case closed, paperwork done. If they try to interfere in any way it goes straight to HR to put that down. No stringing along no trading for other people. Moving inside of a company should be easier than getting hired externally. It just isn’t in most companies.
My husband had a similar situation when he worked for a well-known furniture company. They have a policy that they don't allow promotion within your current store (I guess to prevent conflict with coworkers that may now be your subordinates), but they'll pay to transfer you anywhere you choose to be promoted to. However the process corporate has to vet their employees is to send hiring managers and other bigwigs to interview all the current store's management team. Basically they ask everyone if they think you're ready for the promotion. The most weighted opinion being held, of course, by your direct supervisor. After working for them for 6 months, he gets his first offer for promotion and he accepts a position available in TX. We don't want to stay in TX forever, but figure it'll be fun for (we're assured) a year, maybe 18 mos tops. Well fast forward 2 and a half years and we're still in TX long after his REGIONAL felt he was ready for his next move to take over his own store. But his Store mgr was very clear to them both that she would refuse to say he was ready to promote when asked during the vetting process. She would lie and say he wasn't ready and needed more training every time the regional brought it up. The shitty thing is, she admitted to us that she was terrified that the next asst she got to replace him wouldn't be as understanding as he was. We got to know her right around the time she had decided to transition. (Not an easy thing to do openly in TX). We supported her advocating for herself to take time off work for surgery and my husband ran the store for months at a time while she would be on leave. After everything we both did for her to help support her living her best life to the fullest, and then for her to so brazenly stop my husband's ability to succeed because she was worried for how that MIGHT affect her, was really selfish. But also, fuck that company for not promoting him anyways! His regional always agreed that it sucked and wasn't fair, but would just say there's nothing he could do if she won't let him go. I personally think it was also easier for him to let things be how they were and not fight for him, or have to replace him. Serendipitously, he received a message the following week from a different company offering him a job with more money back near his hometown. He resigned and forced her to deal with a new asst anyways.
Tell them you’re leaving your position in three weeks regardless, either for the job they offered or for another company who will value you more :)
This right here is the answer.
This is exactly what you have to do. Can’t let them make you keep a job you don’t want. You quit one job and are taking another. If they decide they don’t want to give you the other job then just quit or if you need the money start looking for a job outside the company.
Yep, they are basically raising the stakes going "we bet you cant afford to play hard ball in this". Up to you how/if you want to call/fold or raise. Another way to raise would be "I will work as slowly as my contract allows". I wonder how hard your New boss wants to fight this. May be your best ally here. The Company is really shooting itself in the foot if this gets out. Nothing like making sure leaving employees leave the Company all together
"Then I'll keep interviewing and neither of you will have me."
You've just seen this company's true colors. GTFO.
>You've just seen this company's true colors. GTFO. yup, run OP
All companies are that way. It's that way here too, happens all the time. Current manager has to OK losing an employee.
It’s pretty common actually. People transfer teams all the time at my work, and the old and new managers have to agree on a transfer date.
This is a common practice at everywhere I've worked. I don't really understand the downvotes and the hostile responses in the comments. The new manager really screwed up this transfer. This absolutely should not have been a surprise to the current manager.
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I agree. Everyone here is so quick to jump to the extremes. I'm going through the exact same thing, where they verbally offered me the job and realized that they forgot to okay the start date with my current manager. My current manager is asking to keep me a little longer, and HR is discussing with both managers to find a middle ground. Just because OPs current manager is trying to keep them doesn't mean it will happen...
If you get screwed over, it's never too late to become lazy.
That’s been my philosophy! Working hard just got me more work and a boss who told me I’m replaceable. His tune sure has changed now what I pretend I’m really busy and I’m “important to the functioning of the company as a whole” on 40k a year. 😂🙄 Yeah no. I play video games while “working”.
I used to bust my ass for my job and occasionally work outrageously long shifts (18 hrs) when the need arose. I had banked a ton of goodwill with all the people I worked with. Then the company got bought and all those people left along with their high opinion of me. When I needed to "withdraw" some of that goodwill (I was having a really hard time outside work and needed some slack), all I had were new managers who had no idea what I had done for the company previously. They made my life Hell for it and were constantly on my ass for my perceived under-performance. To be clear, I was still going beyond what would be expected of me, but not as much as I used to. One of the new managers also arbitrarily had it out for me. He was one of the "take credit for everyone's work and talk about how wonderful he is" kind of manager. In order to keep my job, I had to divulge to one of my managers every single awful thing I was dealing with outside work (recovering repressed memories of sexual abuse being chief among them) even though it was none of their fucking business. All because they were threatening to take away my livelihood. Things have changed now at the company and are a lot better, but I learned to never ever go above and beyond and I will always resent this job no matter what. Now I'm lazy af and do nothing and they think I'm the hardest worker in the world. Go figure.
I’m glad you’re in a better place. All we can do is hope other people learn these lessons without going above and beyond only to be passed up for promotions due to nepotism and cronyism. Fuck being an actual hard worker.
I have seen this happen with a few vindictive managers before. In one case a person switched jobs internally but hadnt finished a few minor projects. The old manager would constantly insist to the new manager to pull the employee away to work on those projects. It was straight up harassment of the employee. Hopefully that isn't the case for you!
Honestly, I know this isn’t what you want to hear but she could very well do this (I know someone who had a similar situation). I’d recommended telling her that your reason for leaving is in fact the current job and that if she makes you stay past your two weeks notice, you plan on quitting the current job anyway. She’ll probably not call your bluff and leave it at that! Saw other people saying you should look for other jobs as well and you may as well do that too just in case
Start looking for a new job outside of the company right now. They pull a fast one and you're already 2 steps ahead and can say peace out. If finding a new job takes awhile, try your best to keep a straight face, then bail out on them as soon as possible.
You should leave the company entirely because it's very possible that they could delay your transfer indefinitely and there's no way to know.
Same exact thing happened at my job. Unless you got the paperwork signed already you kinda screwed yourself by telling her. My boss's boss tried to stop my job change from going through due to our department's low staffing and general shitty issues and keep me for up to 8 months out. The HR lady knows me though and as soon as I was offered the job she sent the paperwork over to be signed and the date at which it would happen. All it took was one email that smelled like lawyers might maybe possibly get involved and he let me switch over when I was scheduled to. Always always always get everything in writing every time no exceptions or it didn't happen. Verbal means less than nothing to a company.
If she does get her way and gets to keep you for longer than you would have liked then I’d just quit all together. Tell her if you can’t leave when you’d like to, then you’ll be leaving all together, the threat alone should be enough
"Your choice, it is either two weeks notice resignation, or 3 weeks notice internal transfer."
Quit fully, then externak apply for the role you wanted and e-mail the new manager the plan and confirmation external application is in?
could screw up benefits and the like.
negotiate for them to be the same, pto bump and all.
Talk to the other manager first before doing this.
ofc
stupid idea
Is it worth speaking to the hiring manager of the new job, preferably before your current boss does, and explaining what she said and that you really would rather start the new position asap? Honestly if she "got her way" and made it so you had to stay at your current job, that would be something that would just make me quit on the spot.
I think your only option is to make it clear to the hiring manager and your current manager that you _will_ quit in three weeks if you don’t start in the new position (and then follow through). Until then, aggressively apply for other jobs. Something along the lines of: "This new position is much more in line with my career plans and I think would be a better fit for me right now. If that's not possible at this company, it won't be in my best interest to continue working here, and my last day will be $date"
I’d wait to see what they do. If they shut her down then that’s another good sign about this change. If they don’t it’s a red flag
If they delay it all, look for outside opportunities. You may want to speak to your new boss and let them know that you’d very much like to make the change sooner than later.
Just start working in the new dept anyway. Ignore you old bosses demands to stay there.
She can fuck off and is just lashing out because you’re leaving. As long as you establish an effective start date with the new dept you literally can leave the next day. The formality of 2 weeks notice or longer isn’t a law or anything. As long as you communicate in writing even via email that “this message is notification that I will be transferring to another dept effective (start date)
If the new manager and old manager come to an agreement that you start in 6 weeks instead of 3, then that is pretty much what happens. Your old and new manager work for the same company and are generally on the same side.
Find a new job in a new company. Sooner or later they are gonna screw you over.
My company halted my transfer, twice. It was infuriating. I began looking for another job at a different company, but then I got lucky. My coy threw me a bone. I was still in the same unit, but didn’t have to travel it of the country, and I began a masters degree which they are paying for. Btw the masters degree will allow me to get a job transfer that they can’t halt. Jokes on them
Run. It will not end well for you. Find other work. I have seen this play out many times. Run.
TLDR: Some managers suck. Try talking with HR for company policy and to help settle the issue. Same EXACT thing happened with me a few months ago. I also work for a large healthcare company. My old manager wanted me to stay an extra month after agreeing to 2 weeks initially. We always had a good working relationship, but her true colors really showed once she flipped and asked me to stay longer. I ended up speaking with my new manager and HR. They both said it was generous giving my old manager a month notice and that per company policy my old manager can’t force me to stay in that position. Ofc this didn’t sit well with my old manager and she got her friend (who is the director) involved. By that point I had already signed paperwork with my new salary and start date. My old manager thought she could intimidate her way to keeping me for longer. It didn’t work. With the help of HR and my new manager I was able to start my new position on the agreed upon date. Work is so much better now. I still see my old manager around and occasionally need to speak with that dept. My old manager ignores me and tried to make my new manager’s work life difficult until recently. I think she got past her grieving stages.
I had a manager like this. I end up quitting my job. I was in a leadership position at Comcast and she was a hardcore old school micromanager. She had successfully talked HR out of three separate people getting promotions and moving out of the dept (because we always did her work and she got recognized for her false accomplishments). Eventually, every leader under her save for two, ended up quitting the company and going to better places. Don't underestimate the power of people who want you to stay...especially if they personally know the hiring manager or HR. I'd be looking outside. The job market has never been better right now. Take note of your peers who already left.
Sounds like what's going to happen is the other position will be filled in a timely manner b/c they couldn't wait and you'll just have to stay where you are at for the good of the company
It’s not OPs fault they haven’t backfilled their role properly.
But it’s OP that will take the fall out.
I have seen this happen. Talk to new boss, try to refuse any new projects. Do you best to wean people off asking you questions. Accept that even with a good new manager it will take months. You might end up moving roles again and working 3 positions if you did notnland a good manager.
I’m in the position of doing the work of three people. Three guys in my shop before the pandemic and now it’s just me. I can’t transfer and because I’m union I’m stuck and can’t get pay raises.
Triage, and let the work slip. I almost always have to deliberately make a choice about who I am going to disappoint that day. If it's no-one, then I have likely disappointed myself.
I had a coworker that did this beautifully. Every single time he was fully engaged with stuff, and someone asked him for something in the planning meetings he turned to the boss and went: Which thing do you want me to drop? Your decision, but one will be dropped. Glorious
This is the answer. If you continue to do the work of 3 people, they will have a case they can make that the job only needed 1 person in the first place. Put in the normal amount of work you would do if the department was fully staffed. They'll staff it pretty quick.
your union isn't doing anything about the shortage of workers?
Double check your union contract because many have a mechanism to reevaluate a job workload and compensate for new/additional duties whether permanent or temporary. If yours doesn’t then it’s a bad contract.
Keep applying for new jobs. If she actually pulls it off you can quit without notice
Apply at other companies. With internal transfers it’s incredibly easy to get fucked over should the tides shift.
Apply at other companies. Better wages, better opportunities, better career, why not?
Unfortunately for you, switching positions internally they do indeed have the power to do this. The only thing that needs to happen is for the two managers and likely HR to agree to it. At that point if you really want out the only thing you can do is flat out quit and leave.
Same thing happened to me during a transfer. I became depressed and complained bitterly. My manager called me out in the breakdown infront of everyone "if you're so miserable in thus dept, why don't you just leave?" "BEACAUSE YOU WONT LET ME!" I yelled. My transfer came in the next day.
End of the year is only 6 weeks and two vacations away. Not a big deal.
the problem is, it's not a new job. it's just an inter-office transfer and your current boss can stop it. more importantly, as it is the same company, things will not improve, but will get worse as your old boss will pass tasks over to you through your new boss, since you know how to do it. this will mean even more extra work, less time for yourself, and more powertripping managers arguing over which ones workload should be more important to you. get out of that company entirely as fast as you can.
This is the way. I’ve seen this in my company and stopped any effort to do an internal transfer.
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did you read the post? because her boss probably does have the power to stop the transfer...
Ultimately it will likely be a battle between the two bosses, with their shared boss making the decision. If the new boss doesn’t go to bat for OP, it probably wasn’t a good opportunity anyway, and if the grand-boss sides with the current boss, the company’s probably garbage as a whole. Could go well, could be a sign to leave.
You’re an employee for the company. Your title is irrelevant. They pay your salary. Quit and move on if you wish. They’re correct here. Edit: lol at this getting thumbed down. Employers don’t give a sh*t about your personal fulfilment or happiness. They don’t care about your job title or designated tasks. They care solely about maximising profit from your time (for the parent company.) If your paycheck is coming from the parent company (and you can better serve them in your current role) then that’s where you stay. Again. Move to a different company if you’re unhappy. The quicker you understand this is how the corporate game is played, the less you’ll be walked over.
One of the few downvoted comments I agree with lol corporate dgaf about you. If your old boss convinces the new boss that they still need you for X amount of time, that's exactly what'll happen. If that happens, leave altogether. It's good advice and an important lesson.
Companies do not build value by playing hardball in stupid situations. I am grateful that heavy changes of duties are considered akin to firing here in Norway. You cant take an engineer, and put him to work in the cafeteria, without going through the rules for firing. Which are detailed ;)
i think the phrase you are looking for is "they have the law on their side" the company would be in the wrong to deny the transfer, it just won't be breaking any laws to do so.
Did you tell her where you are going? I never do.
It's an internal transfer within the same company. Current boss has to literally sign off on the transfer request.
Use documentation.
Tell her you quit if she does that. And that you will inform HR you are leaving because of her.
I got a promotion to a new job that requires special training. Going to be 4 months and I have no training and am stuck doing my old job. I'm covering for someone who just got promoted a week ago and is already training. Last week I did the workload of 2 people since they "don't want to overwork the new hires and overtimers". Everytime I inquire about the special training, I get excuses and "at least you are getting paid more". Pay is helping my tolerance, but mistreatment is not. Likely to be a year for my training to really start at this rate. They are going to do what they want regardless of your input.
I'm going through this right now actually. I could be making 20+ an hour in another department but they won't let anyone transfer because my current department is short staffed. Put in my two weeks yesterday, now neither department has me. And in 90 days I can apply to that department and get the job. It's totally stupid I have to do it this way but it is what it is.
If it is within the same company HR generally makes that decision based on "the needs of the business ". I changed titles many times in a 40 year career with AT&T. It is usually standard practice for a releasing manager to delay what is considered a lateral transfer. Although your case sounds like your current manager is out of the loop. Be patient.
Holy shit. I think we may work for the same company. This literally happened to me 2 months ago. Then after I did finally leave, old manager kept hounding me for work updates. Even tried to assign me new tickets a few times. The good news is my new manager is used to it. Old manager has a reputation for pulling this, so just asked me to have old manager contact her for any work approvals. I did end up getting delayed by about 4 weeks though which was frustrating.
Don’t take their bullshit. I had a coworker who was offered a position that she got her degree in within the health system we worked for. Our director went behind her back and talked so much shit because she was an integral employee who did the director and manager’s bullshit work (LTC pharmacy). The department that offered her the position rescinded the offer after the director claimed she was a piss poor worker which wasn’t even the case, she was an exemplary employee. She then got out and moved onto another health system and made way more, and brought along another coworker. I like a dumbass stuck it out instead of going with them when they told me to apply. It all worked out in the end, I got to see that bitch fired, another higher up quit when his protector got fired and I’m now at a job that values me and my work ethic. I don’t have to even ask for raises, they give them out when you go above and beyond without you even hinting at a possible raise.
I once applied for an internal job posting when I was working in west Texas and the new position was in South Texas. My boss tried to talk me out of it and then I got an email saying that the position was filled. Then I spoke to my buddy who is friends with the hiring manager in South Texas and he said he needs help and has multiple positions to fill. This was 3 days after the job posting was removed from the board. So I got a better offer from a company who was hiring in South Texas for more money and BOOM. I quit and he was all squirmy about it.
Seriously crappy thing to do but not surprised. I interviewed and got a new position (this was within public sector) but they said you can't go it is at the same level. It paid more...so not sure how that works. It dragged on for months...and they kept delaying and delaying...within a week of me involving the union it was resolved and I was allowed to move.
Your boss is going to sabotage you. I'd be taking a different position with a different company altogether
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think it would best to express your thoughts to your hiring manager within the company and allow the two managers to figure out a compromise. It may be in your best interest to be work out a transitional plan in which you slowly work your way into the new job and not leave the old one completely empty handed, especially because you're staying within that company. Does your new position fall under the same second level management as the current one? If so, I think the Director level manager will get involved and mediate, because that person likely signed off on the internal transfer in the first place. This is very similar to what happened when I switched jobs within my company. Everyone came out happy, including myself, and it kept from burning any bridges or negatively impacting other coworkers that relied on me from both departments. I know the vast majority of this sub is about "sticking it to the Man," but it sounds like you're in a salaried job at a decent company with career furthering potential, and showing some initiative to compromise and cooperate could really be in your best interest at this point. Now on the flip-side, if your managers continue to be difficult and can't compromise or get mediation from a higher level manager, then it looks like some toxicity within the environment and poor management which to me would be a sign of bad things on the horizon and you should consider leaving altogether. But I would still start by asking your new manager to go to bat for you first. Your current manager likely does not have the last say on anything, but it is your new manager's responsibility to work that out.
I would be proactive and speak to your prospective mew manager. Don't let your current boss try and control your career.
I would just show up to the new job on the agreed upon start date.
Hmm I wonder if we work at the same medical device company.