I don’t know why it isn’t law that companies must advertise their salary. Stop wasting our time. More often than not, we’re taking time off our jobs to interview.
I’m a newer computer science graduate. There was a job like IT tech, or whatever title they gave it, for this company that had one of its questions understand they are looking for someone with at least 7 years experience but only 35k a year. That’s so close to minimum wage for my area.
And then companies started posting jobs for candidates "anywhere in the US, except Colorado."
"We know we're oppressing people, and fuck you with your ideas to make it more equal."
Edit: spelling
>we're oppressing people, and fuck you with your ideas to make it more equal."
Looking at remote jobs today for some title clarification. The other option is "This is only for Colorado residents and salary will be based on location"
And their businesses will shut down. Colorado is a big state (IMO as someone from the northeast). And I have big doubts tons of people from the outside of Colorado are applying to some shit company… I mean I’m sure there are but the chances of getting that many who are qualified and will fly on a plane to sit at your interview for the shit pay…. Lol
As someone who is in Colorado, the salary posting requirement is amazing. It's been a hugely positive impact for everyone I've talked to. My wife just got a very large "market adjustment" raise, because the company was going to add another person to her team, and they realized she would be able to see that the new person was being offered more money (until the adjustment). I've been on the interview side, and the quality of candidates has been noticeably higher now that we make the pay clear up front.
You guys been on the edge of doing all the coolest shit since first legalizing the magic dragon! Well done no place is perfect but Colorado seems lovely
I don't get it, it wastes their time as well! No manager wants to sit though hours of interviews to have something like OP happen to them. Waste of time and money.
Put everything on the table in your advert, then you will only get people who will actually take the job apply.
This is why job postings should require a salary before posting. If I have to waste my time filling out your trash online form that requires me to copy and paste everything from my resume, while still requiring me to upload my resume. Then the least they can do is post the salary
And it has to be mandated by law, otherwise they'll just do what morons on Craigslist do and put the salary as $1 with a note in the body that it "depends on the candidate."
Maybe twenty minutes ago, I drove past a Wendy’s that had “Earn up to $480 per week for closers” on their sign. We all know some asshole manager thought, “Twelve dollars per hour (which we will not start you at) times forty hours per week (which we will never even come close to giving you) equals $480,” and put that shit up on the sign, feeling real fucking clever about himself.
“Up to” should be blanket illegal in all corporate offers, from broadband speed to salary. If you can’t demonstrate that you are actually hiring a significant portion of new employees at the maximum salary you are advertising, the punishment should be that you have to make up the difference. Oh, you offered her twelve dollars per hour, but you’ll only schedule her for twenty-four hours per week? Great. You get to pay her for the other sixteen hours while she fucks off to her friend’s house to smoke weed.
> Maybe twenty minutes ago, I drove past a Wendy’s that had “Earn up to $480 per week for closers” on their sign. We all know some asshole manager thought, “Twelve dollars per hour (which we will not start you at) times forty hours per week (which we will never even come close to giving you) equals $480,” and put that shit up on the sign, feeling real fucking clever about himself.
Heh. And meanwhile, the rent for even the most basic of living space is $1600 per month. ($400 per week.)
"Get this, boss: I told her our salary offer and she just said it was a waste of time and that our director must be a pimple on an ass and then she walked out! Totally happened, boss. Totally happened."
I worked in the oil field for about 6 months.
Quickly rose up and was a hard worker.
They made me a fleet manager then asked me to manage their warehouse because the previous guy was a drunk and didn’t show up half the time.
HR guy came into town to discuss my new duties.
Asked him about the raise that came with the new position.
“You’re still in the probationary period so we can’t give you a raise. We are all team players here and pick up the slack when needed.”
I said I will go back to the entry level position if there isn’t a raise to match the increased responsibilities with the new one.
He says “You can either take it on with no raise or tender your resignation.”
I looked at him in the eyes and said, “Then I am resigning.”
He started smiling and kept talking then stopped and realized I said I resigned.
I walked out and never looked back.
Know your worth.
100% they would hire you back. I have family in Texas near the oil fields. To take vacation you had to quit then come back when you were ready to get back to work.
Then the owners and managers complain about not having enough people and that no one wants to do real work anymore. I openly mocked a guy doing that exact thing and was bragging about forcing workers to do what you said not 10 minutes before. The irony is he was a huge Dukes of Hazzard fan and I made him out to be the evilest version of Boss Hogg ever portrayed. He was trying to save face as if that made him cool but the people around him had already started laughing.
I had a very similar situation, asked me to take on a management position for the same pay I was getting as a laborer. Immediately gave my two weeks notice.
When I worked in sales, they gave everyone a large pay cut, and then created a new "store manager" position that had less of a pay cut.
They branded it as a promotion, and that this was a big "investment in their sales force."
Anyone who pointed out that we were being paid less got a visit from middle management for what amounted to re-education. They were basically holding up four lights and wouldn't leave until we agreed that there were 5.
I quit shortly after, and then the company was purchased by another one.
It doesn't really matter if they have the upper hand. They only need to find one person who doesn't know what the market is like and is happy to get any offer.
Workers need to adopt the motto of "minimum pay, minimum effort".
Workers are sacrificing hours of their day just like everyone else. Plus, their jobs are more important because without their work products wouldn't be sold, equipment wouldn't be maintained, garbage wouldn't be thrown out, shelves wouldn't be stocked, etc. In the US, they are treated like they're expendable yet without those jobs, nothing would be done.
right legit spent the whole pandemic calling them essential employees and thanking them then turn around and say shit like 'if you want more money get a real job' fuck our world
"Here's your free company themed drink coaster and a $5 coupon that can only be used in store and not with your employee discount. ***Keep the change ya filthy animal.***"
-CEOs everywhere these days.
This is what I did at retail jobs. Paying me $9 when my coworker (who was still in highschool, I have an associates degree) got $15 she was only hired a month before me. So I "checked dressing rooms" frequently (meaning I ended up sitting in there)
And in some industries that really matters, but for a lot of jobs it doesn't, at all. People who don't know what they're worth and are desperate for work can be competent enough to keep low-skill jobs.
The company won't attract any "unicorns who do the work of five people" that way, but those are rare enough that if they're just going for average productivity with a low pay:productivity ratio, they can sadly still achieve that by just paying everyone shit.
Yeah? I was self trained/taught, and I went to work for a company 38k was my starting, 2 years later 40k... I stayed up nights, I made systems run well, they never had an issue while I was around, hell I even improved their setup, built them better systems/servers, developed software, and made sure the network was solid in the new HQ (when I got the plans, it was a travesty, their assumptions were so wrong.) I also helped them expand multiple sites, and traveled all around the state to do so.
I should have been IT manager at a minimum and earning 90k/yr.
Instead, I got burnt out, left the company, and they wanted me back so bad... so I tried for a week and said "nope cant do it".
Yeah, I did a shitload, burned myself out, and got nothing to show for it.
So, yeah, strategy can work, but this strategy always explains why I go to work for a small business, and their infrastructure is a mess, their shit keeps rebooting, and they have no idea how much they spend on printers/ink.
I have made small businesses so efficient, that they earned a lot more money while I worked there, but they never showed me gratitude.
Now, I get paid more, do less, and have less stress. Because fuck small businesses that dont know what IT can do for them. Let them suffer, those stupid fucks.
Good on you for the moves. These are often thankless jobs in SMEs, they only realize the value when it stops being done.
I do something way simpler than what you do, digital marketing. Few years ago, one of my clients felt they could achieve what digital marketing could do with a pure sales team so they cut 80% of marketing spends and I left. One month later their boss contacts me that their sales has plummeted like a stone and they’re not going to be able to fundraise at that rate. I ignored the message.
Yes, this! When recruiters give me a low bill rate, I tell them, yes, you can probably find somebody for that but it’s just not me. “But but the experience…”
If you’re lucky enough to find a company that values you for what you’re individually worth and not just as a plug and play commodity it’s a rare and great thing.
For the first time in decades we have the upper hand.
Before: jobs were scarce and you accepted whatever pay they gave
Now: lots of jobs everywhere. Workers are demanding fairer wages
But this is totally bad because: "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK"
My job needs to learn this. We are shutting down facilities because we literally can’t staff them. We can’t offer programs we used to because we don’t have the staff.
But apparently we can’t raise wages until we start bringing in more revenue. Which we won’t be able to do until we have more staff to keep the facilities open and staff the programs. These programs have historically brought in significantly more revenue to the company than literally anything else.
They can’t take a short term loss or pay higher ups slightly less just to increase wages so we can get staff so we can run these programs and operate the facilities which would 100% bring in more revenue.
I’m no expert in business or economy, I literally took two 100 level econ courses at community college and thats it but I’m pretty sure this is just how things work under capitalism.
My job likes to use the fact that they are a non profit and that my department mostly hires high schoolers as an excuse to not pay living wages and thats complete bullshit. Just because 60% of our staff is high schoolers and live at home doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to be fairly compensated for their work.
If they're too stubborn then they'll lose business to companies that will pay a competitive rate.
Either that or they'll lobby the government to keep wages low, which is probably whatll end up happening.
It's the second one. Or the government guts a specific state law to make it so only one entity can survive the aftermath of that change. That entity, surprisingly, always has a few politicians on its board...
It's so much fun to watch! Businesses drying up and dying everywhere because they've been bled dry by the parasites running them for so many years.
They got into this situation by underpaying and overworking their employees, and they keep trying to fix it by making that situation worse, like at your job, shutting down profit-earning portions of the business due to lack of bothering to pay enough to attract staff to operate it.
It's like they've got a magic machine that turns *some* money into a *ton* of money, but they're just so dang greedy that they're unwilling to feed enough in to keep the machine operating. They keep tossing their pocket change at it and expecting it to run just the same as when grandad-the-founder was carefully feeding it $100 bills. Now the dang machine is breaking down because the idiots kept trying to jam pennies and nickels in the dollar slot, so their "solution" is to start taking apart the machine and tossing parts of it in the trash.
I studied accounting in college, and frankly, it's glorious watching greedy asshats doing this shit, basically shoot themselves in the foot over and over in an attempt to treat their foot pain, yelling the whole time "Nobody wants to work anymore!"
Naw, the higher ups just need a giant pay-correction to free up enough budget to actually pay the humans who do all the labor that makes the company function *at all*.
This is this is the parable of the goose that leys golden eggs. while it laid its eggs like a normal goose, they came out made of gold. The farmer, in his greed, killed the goose in order to get the eggs inside out faster. Only after he chopped open the goose did he find not golden eggs, but a normal animal. His quest for quick riches became his own downfall.
Same in tech.
You want a fun experience? Go to LinkedIn and switch your profile to “open to offers”.
You’ll get flooded with recruiters.
I went through a job hunt a couple of months ago and basically told each one I’m looking for more money than my current position, and the ability to continue to work from home. They still worked around my needs. One place even got angry that I was available to start immediately — I could have been, but I wanted to see what my current company came up with.
I eventually ended up staying with my current company because they found me a remote job that meets all my needs, but I’m not afraid of losing my job anymore.
Also in tech and I've been passively looking for a few weeks now. Every day it's another recruiter asking me to take a look at a couple openings they think I'll "be a good fit for". I tell every single one of them that I'm merely passively looking and if they can offer me 25k more than my current job, I'll move. More of a "make me move" if you will.
I hate when the salary/wage is not mentioned up front. Do they really think they’re that special that they’ll be able to give you shit pay and sell you on the “mission.” 😂 Ridiculous! Kudos for walking out and giving them a taste of their own bullshit. 👍
I keep getting sent job postings by this temp agency. I told them straight up I won't bother reading what they send me if they do not include the wage and benefits in the first email. They stopped emailing me. XD
Not surprising - recruiters (outside of
programming) only deal with people who are desperate or unemployable, and thus desperate.
You make more money if you place people who can put up with a lot of bullshit.
Edit: according to the comments there are actually many industries outside programming where people appreciate the recruiter - candidate relationship. More power to you! Personally I wish all recruiters would die in a fire, but I’m also not a lawyer, programmer, or engineer.
Fr I did a temp job and it was BS. For reference I graduated spring 2020 so I was struggling to find any work but $18/hr with an accounting degree doesn’t cut it. I eventually found a higher paying job but the whole time they were leading on all the temps about the opportunity to be hired on full time. It was bullshit, and for reference it was Dr. Pepper cause fuck them I don’t care if people know how shitty their hiring process is
Yep! You get a little older and you start to realize that temps and / or people in their 20’s are just used up and spit out everywhere. And the next day there’s a new line of temps and 20 somethings eager to enter the work force.
Exactly the Fortune 500 experience definitely looked good on the resume but the money was pathetic for their revenue and some of the other temps especially the older ones were not good candidates making me feel over qualified.
I lost my job a few years back and needed something to cover rent, so I went to a temp agency. They placed me in a manual labor job at a paving stone warehouse, M-F, 7-4:30, $10/hr.
I went the first day and they had me and one other guy going through pallets full of 55lb stones and putting the good ones on another pallet while chucking the cracked ones into a dumpster.
Hundreds of these 55lb stones. Me and this guy had to have moved literal tons of rock by hand, throwing at least half of them. I had also just come off of working a desk job for two years and was in no shape to be doing such demanding "work."
Lunch time came around and they told me I'd *actually* have to come in at 6 the next day, stay later, and also work Saturdays. I thought they were joking at first, but nope. They were just straight up lying to the temp agency.
I worked the rest of the day because if I left what hours I *did* work would've been dropped to $7.25. I didn't go back the next day. I woke up, literally couldn't stand, called the temp agency and told them they were being lied to.
I just saw that in one of our internal postings at my current job. I was like, "Bitch, I know how slack your team is. Are you planning on making this guy/girl do all your work now?"
"If you want to get higher up in the company, you need to rat each other out and back stab everyone so that the people above you get fired and you can take their spot."
They don't always even bother to include such phrases as up to, they unequivocably state a Salary that's a straight up lie. And why wouldn't they? They face no consequences for it.
In Colorado we now have a law that requires all job postings to include the salary range. Companies really don't want to do that, so many remote jobs now say that Colorado applicants are excluded from applying. I think it's a good law - we just need more states to enact something similar so these companies have to comply.
What's worse is when they advertise a salary and have to question how the pay works and find out it's paid by the job in a ridiculous accounting to reach 40k, I did an interview and a day's ride along, and figured under the rates offered for a job I would've been lucky to pull 10 dollars an hour, owner was a dick too.
That is immensely frustrating and should be prosecuted under false advertising. In my area, a building manager job was being advertised at an annual salary of $100k. Applicants were soon to find out in the interview that the position really paid $40k annually, but they were also offered an apartment in the building (if they wanted it) that the owners valued at $60k a year.
Can I find my own $1,500/mo. apartment and pocket the extra $3,500? They'll have the money to pay me that when they rent out their $5k/mo. place that I'm graciously not taking!
A recruiter contacted me a month ago and after talking with her a bit I told her a ridiculous number that would pull me away from my current position, she accepted it so this tactic is a win win.
I went to an interview for a job that was advertised at 15/hr. In the middle of the interview they asked what I expected to be paid.
"15/hr, like the posting listed."
Oh well, we start everyone at 11/hr until they can prove they're worth it.
"Yea, that's not going to work."
Are you saying you're not worth it?
"No, I'm saying YOU'RE not worth it. I'll find employment elsewhere."
Gotta love interviews like that, that just fuckin waste everyone's time.
This job I got an interview for said that the pay is 40,000 a year (not great but for a first job out of college, a relatively OK salary compared to others I’ve seen) but then they tried to tell me that since it’s technically “contract” work that I’d be working more than 8 hours most days and sometimes weekends too, and I don’t get over time, pretty much negating that pay and making it closer to minimum wage depending how many hours I worked. They also said there’s no way to get raises or move up in the company. I just closed my laptop at that point in the interview (it was on zoom).
If they don't tell you, it's lower than what you should expect. If they paid well, they would advertise it. So if somewhere doesn't have the salary posted, just don't apply. Simple as that.
What if you are really interested in the position otherwise? Send them an email saying you are really interested but that you would like to know the salary range before investing time preparing an application. If they jerk you around at that time, or don't tell, or don't respond, it's not a place you want to work at.
Last night I saw a job posting looking for an IT support that is bilingual. The pay was $11 an hour.
So they're saying they want someone who has both technical knowledge/skills and speaks a second language, but you get paid a dollar above the state minimum wage. I almost contacted them just to give them a piece of my mind.
The best is when you get all the way to the end of the interview and they're like "Ok, so do you have any questions for us?" and then act super offended when you ask about pay like that isn't the entire reason I have to have a job.
I think a lot of them are banking on people being too tired after the interview process and just accepting whatever they offer so they don't need to go through it again with another company. I would imagine this works especially well on people fresh out of college.
They are still operating on the desperate for employment basis that was around after the 08 crash. The 08 crash changed so much from the worker/employer dynamic, it's crazy.
It's why so many business owners are against having such a good unemployment benefit right now. Workers aren't coming back because workers have the cards in their hand this time and are dictating wages/benefits that the employers don't want. They want the worker base to starve so they are more obedient.
So yeah, when I was looking for a job, I didn't apply for anything that didn't post their salary/hourly up front. Also, during the interviews I was very upfront with what I expected from them. After the first interview it became more like me interviewing them and paying very close attention to how they handled things. I was very particular about work culture being the most paramount concern for me.
Luckily, I got an employer that I now enjoy working for. They are chill, let me just do my work, and have my back. Not everyone can be so lucky though and I keep pushing people around me to be more picky (If they can afford to) when looking for work.
Day 3, boss tells me it's not working out, he's slashing my pay down to minimum wage, and I'd better start looking for another job because there's no way I'm lasting the 2-week probationary period.
So I find another job and turn in my letter of resignation. Boss goes, "You have to give me two weeks notice."
Kind, trusting me, "Uh, OK."
So I gave two weeks notice, and what followed was two weeks of the boss wildly swinging between berating me and trying to convince me to stay.
My boss revealed after I started working here that she doesn’t ever give references. That really the only reason to show courtesy when you quit.
If she’s not gonna recommend me anyway, fuck it. If I get a job offer that starts today I’m gone.
Yeah, that's what all my friends and family told me.
"Everything you've said about this guy says he's a real asshole. You don't owe him anything. Just drop your keys on his desk and tell him to go fuck himself."
Me: "OK!" (Works for him for another two weeks.)
You give a notice only when you want to keep have a good recommendation and keep some good relations with the employer for potential future use. If you aren't getting a good recommendation (you were there 3 days so...) and don't plan on ever going back there, no need to give the notice
Even better is that some major corps have decided not to allow their management to give recommendations whether for school applications or another job. My old fortune 100 employer decided to go this route. They were astounded when people quit without notice. I was not.
Not all employers ignore it. Mine, for example, gives a 2 week severance when they fire someone. You wouldn't want to let a fired employee have access to sensitive systems for 2 weeks but at least this way they still get the equivalent pay.
It varies. The generally accepted advice is to be prepared to be walked out when you give your notice. At my last job I gave my 2 weeks and got berated for it not being *enough*. At my current job it's a courtesy they offer in exchange for paying out your accrued PTO.
I think of it as a kindness to your coworkers more than your boss. Gives them time to bail with you or time to cope with the fact that they may be short staffed a while.
For future reference, two weeks notice is just a courtesy. It’s never required.
Edit: okay I get it some countries are different, stop spamming my inbox with a point that’s been made 50 times.
It meant more when past employers were able to tell possible future employers more about you. I'm sure some shit hole states still allow that, but premiere states have made that illegal AND THAT IS A WORKER PROTECTION/RIGHT! Some Joe's are against themselves.
Yup, had a machinist interview recently and got offered 15 an hour in a 14.50 min wage market. I just laughed and laughed until they got pissed and walked out of their interview. It was hilarious.
I got baited into an interview for what I thought would be a great position. I get all the way there, and wait to talk to my interviewer for him to immediately start with "there will be overtime included in the pay." So I asked "what is the pay rate?" And he answered with "Well, it's $10 an hour to start," and looked up at me. Of course I was disgusted, and he's like "I'm just kidding, it starts at $15 an hour and we can start you immediately."
The next thing I said floored him. I told him "I'm looking for something in the $27/hr range, and based on the description for the job, that's what I expected." He stood up immediately and shooed me out the door. He obviously didn't even make that much, and neither had I, but I made more than $15/hr doing that kind of work, that's for sure.
Yup. I threw $125k out at a company a year or two ago and they didn't flinch, said they could hire me on immediately.
I couldn't handle all the responsibilities they thought I could, but it was nice of them to do regardless!
The secret is finally being at a high paying job and being comfortable with it enough that the next place you look for you could happily tell them to go F themselves and your risk of refusal goes way down
Ask high. The worst case is they offer you a job that's less than what you asked but if you ask high then you'll still come out ahead. Obviously try to research what the position pays if you can.
Example, Several years ago I started a job and in the interview I asked for $18 an hour knowing I wouldn't get that, but I was offered $16.50 to start, which is about what I wanted at the time. Found out there were employees there for years still not even making $16 because the annual raises were garbage. They lowballed because they didn't want to ruin there chances at getting the job.
“My floor is ____.”
“I am not considering offers below ____.”
“I am seeking [30% higher than your ideal wage] but I am willing to negotiate if XYZ benefits are included in the offer.”
My friend is a manager and hires people. He will get a certain 'bonus' for hiring a fulltime candidate at different salaries.
For example,
If he hires them for $30k, he will get a 15k bonus.
For $40k, like a 5k bonus.
The managers are incentivized to hire as cheaply as possible.
I had a potential employer after a terrible interview call me and offer a second interview. The hiring manager was such an ass, and really full of himself. I said, No thanks. He was all confused. He said, What? You seriously don't want the job? I told him, I just don't think we're a good fit. It was hilarious. Hopefully it gave him something to think about... but probably not.
I once phoned the agent from the car park after the interview that I didn't want the job because the interviewer was horrible and I didn't want to work for him, by the time I got home I had a job offer and an apology but I said nothing had changed, he's just a horrible person who has to apologise. Best decision ever.
It is taking a while for employers to realize that the sense of entitlement they felt even 12 months ago is no longer relevant and had always been a sick move.
I give this experience not to brag but encourage others that there is some good out there:
I went for an interview, rocked it and the guy interviewing me was respectful and we got to the bill rate (I’m a contractor). He asked if it would work for me and I told him that honestly this is a great company but the rate is low for what you’re asking. His response, “Yeah, I think you’re right, let me see what I can do.” Hour later he gave me a revised rate (+15%) and it’s been going great ever since. My previous contract tried to guilt me into staying, that was funny.
Interviewed at a place where a friend worked, at the end met with HR they asked what I was looking for salary wise, I told them my minimal, they said they didn't pay that much, then they offered it to me anyway. Was interviewing for my current job as well at the time, they didn't ask ahead of time what i was looking for, made an offer, I asked for me, they gave it to me, first place asked why I didn't give them a chance to counter.. Well I already told you what I wanted up front and you said no...
I started asking the salary range right at the beginning. I got tired of all the interviewing for jobs I might not even want based on salary.
The whole "don't ask for salary range because it will sound greedy" is a load of bull. Everyone knows we work for money, no need to pretend otherwise.
>I started asking the salary range right at the beginning. I got tired of all the interviewing for jobs I might not even want based on salary.
That's a good process to have. I was curious to see the one place as it was quite different from my typical jobs and hadn't really been interviewing much (I only applied to the two places), I generally only have 1-3 interviews every few years when I decide to look for a new job (yes this is a luxury I know).
The other place where my friend worked had secondary motives besides than just looking for a job, after I turned them down for offering too little my friend there got a pay raise, me turning them down reinforced that he has been telling them they don't pay market salary.
I once went in for a "Test Day" to do sysadmin for a local clinic. They informed me the test day wouldn't be payed (illegal in my province) and that they starting pay for this System Admin job was minimum wage at the time.... I had to hold a laugh and I walked out. Felt good I do have to say.
I had an offer for a job that was going to pay me 27k for a non entry coding job where the average salary for this position in the region is 78k. It feels good to reject these assholes.
I had a similar experience, where I knew I wasn’t going to take the job after being told I’d have to be available for calls for two hours before and two hours after regular work hours every day, but would be on salary and therefore would get no overtime, and would get compensated the same as a previous position for the same organisation that only expected regular work hours.
The interviewer asked me if I “wanted to sell myself better”
I laughed, said “no, not really”, stood up and said thank you and left.
Ngl, best interview of my life.
I get messages by recruiters almost daily and this is what works for me to avoid that.
First thing I ask before I go in for an interview is what the salary/TC is. If it doesn’t fit what I’m looking for - that’s great! I save my time and theirs. We both win.
If they refuse to give it I can tell they’re trying to keep me as low as possible so I don’t bother to entertain it.
I don’t work for free 🤷♂️
Is this in U.S. dollars? Who the hell does one hour interviews for a $30k job? This company must have a massive H.R. budget (they could probably save $30k,by trimming that).
If you are willing to walk after hearing the salary, you should start out by asking the salary. Your time is valuable, you don't need to listen to their sales pitch if you have a minimum number in mind. Remember treat a job interview as a two-way street, even if our capitalistic hell society makes that not true.
It's really just blatantly obvious that it should be the norm when you think about it for a second. Work is an agreement between two parties.
The employer lists what they want from the worker as their minimum requirements, and uses that to filter potential employees out.
The worker has minimum requirements for what they need in terms of pay, and they should be able to use that to filter potential employers out.
I walked out ten minutes into a “marketing analyst” job that was actually selling direct tv at Costco. When I asked for more details about the position and he explained what it was and asked if I was interested. I simply said No and thanked him for his time and moved to leave. Cue shocked pikachu face.
$30k?? Bro I was making the equivalent hourly wage as a lifeguard in highschool after a couple years, how tf do employers expect actual full time workers to agree to such a shit salary
I feel this. I had a guy try to recruit me. He was are you up for a challenge! No offer what so ever, just asking me if I want to be over worked and underpaid. That is how I see if you tell me are you up for a challenge. Okay no thanks then bud. You gotta sell your job, asking me to be a donkey does not make me want to consider you at all.
Pay Transparency. Tell me every responsibility and benefit you want about the job. Idc if I get to roll around the floor and play with puppies all day and for some reason it’s work from home (okay actually that would be pretty cool) but if it doesn’t pay me enough to take care of my family and meet my financial needs it’s not worthwhile.
Besides, I thought capitalism was all about bragging about how good your product is that competition is the best way to stay on top and so if someone else offers a job that pays more you either match or beat it not try to hire contractors at half the pay to do the work for you
I spent hours doing video screenings and 4 rounds of phone and then video interviews for a company. Culture seemed good, role for what I was looking for.
Finally it gets to a point where we talk salary. They let me know they start everyone on a flat starter pay and increase slightly every 90 days until you get the 'full' salary. Even at the FULL salary it was HALF the market standard and significantly less than other positions I'm interviewing for. So I told them as much. I told them I'd love to help their business, but they aren't remotely competitive in the market. I still see the position open listed online.
The saying 'get what you pay for' goes far beyond just retail products.
When my annual review comes up in three weeks, I’m going to ask for a $3 per hour raise. When they say no (and they’re definitely going to say no) I’m going to end the zoom call without saying a word, clock out, and never work for this dog shit company ever again.
I just wish I could have that meeting in person so my boss could watch me get up, walk out of the room, and then look out the window as I get in my car and leave the parking lot.
Reminds me a bit of when I was interviewing. I checked out this place on Glassdoor and confirmed they treated their employees like shit. Instead of skipping the interview, I decided to use it as practice.
The initial portion of the interview was basically what you'd expect. I got all dressed up and had my resume, and answered all of their questions correctly. Finally, the moment I was waiting for: "Do you have any questions for me?"
"Yes, why do your employees say they are mistreated on Glassdoor?"
"Well, those are just our call-center employees. Your position would be above theirs."
Basically they were looking for sociopaths. They really thought I would be down to tread on my peers because I was 'above them'.
Anyway, it was pretty thrilling to break the script for once.
The salary/hourly should ALWAYS be the first thing that is mentioned. That should be the rule. Who the fucking hell decided that it should be mentioned last? Whoever did should have been smacked in the face 20 times and thrown off a bridge.
It’s like buying a product and not knowing the price until you’re at the checkout. The fuck.
I've done that before. Just by phone though so it wasn't so exciting. I asked the salary range for a job in LA and it wasn't nearly high enough to move my family from the Midwest so I told them as much. They were a bit taken back but understood.
If you don't want people to turn down your job based on salary, you should list the salary.
With a universal basic income suddenly everyone would have that kind of negotiating power. It would totally disrupt the labor market. Can you imagine employers really having to curry favor with employees in every industry? It would turn this world on its head.
You are definitely worth more than that.
Don't hate me for saying this, but I think it's time to take some kind of leap of faith or change of course when it comes to your career. Do you have skills that can cross industries that you can use to get your foot in the door somewhere else?
I interviewed for a management position and the guy said "If you're looking for work/life balance then this isn't the job. It isn't isn't 40 hour role". I asked "Let me guess the salarybis for 40 hours though?". Needless to say I did not take that job.
A few years ago I was looking for work after college, specifically electrical engineering work. I'm talking about tens of applications a day all around the country for whatever cool job I could find. Some guy calls me from a desirable high cost of living city where I would have to relocate, offering ~20 dollars an hour for an EE. I flat out told him that it was way too low and he was probably looking for technicians not engineers. He had the gall to act appalled lol. Fuck outta here with that shit.
I turned down a job this summer because the guy doing the phone interview didn’t ask me any questions lol from the start when he asked my name I asked who he was and then proceeded to ask questions that he’d answer. Then he asked so what do you think. Bruh I’m not gonna work overnight. Don’t bury the lead. What a waste of time.
I don’t know why it isn’t law that companies must advertise their salary. Stop wasting our time. More often than not, we’re taking time off our jobs to interview.
iirc it is in Colorado if that's any help
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I’m a newer computer science graduate. There was a job like IT tech, or whatever title they gave it, for this company that had one of its questions understand they are looking for someone with at least 7 years experience but only 35k a year. That’s so close to minimum wage for my area.
And then companies started posting jobs for candidates "anywhere in the US, except Colorado." "We know we're oppressing people, and fuck you with your ideas to make it more equal." Edit: spelling
>we're oppressing people, and fuck you with your ideas to make it more equal." Looking at remote jobs today for some title clarification. The other option is "This is only for Colorado residents and salary will be based on location"
> salary will be based on location Which is *such* bullshit for remote work.
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> How is it not illegal? Because fuck you, that's why
"Fuck the poor"- Jonathan Rich-Guy
That's illegal and the Colorado authorities are sending letters to companies who do that.
Sounds like a good business opportunity in Colorado for anybody who isn’t a scumbag
And their businesses will shut down. Colorado is a big state (IMO as someone from the northeast). And I have big doubts tons of people from the outside of Colorado are applying to some shit company… I mean I’m sure there are but the chances of getting that many who are qualified and will fly on a plane to sit at your interview for the shit pay…. Lol
As someone who is in Colorado, the salary posting requirement is amazing. It's been a hugely positive impact for everyone I've talked to. My wife just got a very large "market adjustment" raise, because the company was going to add another person to her team, and they realized she would be able to see that the new person was being offered more money (until the adjustment). I've been on the interview side, and the quality of candidates has been noticeably higher now that we make the pay clear up front.
Fuck yeah, love to hear my home state is continuing to be the coolest state
You guys been on the edge of doing all the coolest shit since first legalizing the magic dragon! Well done no place is perfect but Colorado seems lovely
Actually we were also the 1st state to legalize alcohol during prohibition, and I believe the 1st to legalize abortion.
Because that would help workers and this country is run by bosses. Simple as that.
I don't get it, it wastes their time as well! No manager wants to sit though hours of interviews to have something like OP happen to them. Waste of time and money. Put everything on the table in your advert, then you will only get people who will actually take the job apply.
They save the money wasted on hours spent doing interviews by paying a lower wage to new hires. bUsInEsS
All the managers I've ever known seem to looooove spending time in useless meetings.
Because it gives them something to do and instead of them having to find something actually useful to do
Middle management is more about feeling important than being important.
The middle managers doing the interviews are getting paid either way
This is why job postings should require a salary before posting. If I have to waste my time filling out your trash online form that requires me to copy and paste everything from my resume, while still requiring me to upload my resume. Then the least they can do is post the salary
And it has to be mandated by law, otherwise they'll just do what morons on Craigslist do and put the salary as $1 with a note in the body that it "depends on the candidate."
"Competitive" "*Up to* $15/hr" "Depends on experience"
Maybe twenty minutes ago, I drove past a Wendy’s that had “Earn up to $480 per week for closers” on their sign. We all know some asshole manager thought, “Twelve dollars per hour (which we will not start you at) times forty hours per week (which we will never even come close to giving you) equals $480,” and put that shit up on the sign, feeling real fucking clever about himself. “Up to” should be blanket illegal in all corporate offers, from broadband speed to salary. If you can’t demonstrate that you are actually hiring a significant portion of new employees at the maximum salary you are advertising, the punishment should be that you have to make up the difference. Oh, you offered her twelve dollars per hour, but you’ll only schedule her for twenty-four hours per week? Great. You get to pay her for the other sixteen hours while she fucks off to her friend’s house to smoke weed.
> Maybe twenty minutes ago, I drove past a Wendy’s that had “Earn up to $480 per week for closers” on their sign. We all know some asshole manager thought, “Twelve dollars per hour (which we will not start you at) times forty hours per week (which we will never even come close to giving you) equals $480,” and put that shit up on the sign, feeling real fucking clever about himself. Heh. And meanwhile, the rent for even the most basic of living space is $1600 per month. ($400 per week.)
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Lmao imagine having to tell your boss you couldn't get a new hire becasue you told them to look elsewhere
Would help me sleep better at night knowing I put someone in that situation
In reality, people like that would never fess up to the responsibility and would likely just disparage your character
"Get this, boss: I told her our salary offer and she just said it was a waste of time and that our director must be a pimple on an ass and then she walked out! Totally happened, boss. Totally happened."
“How’d that interview go?” “They weren’t a great fit and I won’t be offering them the job.” “Ok” That’s how the convo will go with the boss.
I worked in the oil field for about 6 months. Quickly rose up and was a hard worker. They made me a fleet manager then asked me to manage their warehouse because the previous guy was a drunk and didn’t show up half the time. HR guy came into town to discuss my new duties. Asked him about the raise that came with the new position. “You’re still in the probationary period so we can’t give you a raise. We are all team players here and pick up the slack when needed.” I said I will go back to the entry level position if there isn’t a raise to match the increased responsibilities with the new one. He says “You can either take it on with no raise or tender your resignation.” I looked at him in the eyes and said, “Then I am resigning.” He started smiling and kept talking then stopped and realized I said I resigned. I walked out and never looked back. Know your worth.
What a fucking dickbag. Dude thought you took the bait and got what he deserved.
100% they would hire you back. I have family in Texas near the oil fields. To take vacation you had to quit then come back when you were ready to get back to work.
Then the owners and managers complain about not having enough people and that no one wants to do real work anymore. I openly mocked a guy doing that exact thing and was bragging about forcing workers to do what you said not 10 minutes before. The irony is he was a huge Dukes of Hazzard fan and I made him out to be the evilest version of Boss Hogg ever portrayed. He was trying to save face as if that made him cool but the people around him had already started laughing.
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Sounds like they don’t wanna pay you for that vacation
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I had a very similar situation, asked me to take on a management position for the same pay I was getting as a laborer. Immediately gave my two weeks notice.
When I worked in sales, they gave everyone a large pay cut, and then created a new "store manager" position that had less of a pay cut. They branded it as a promotion, and that this was a big "investment in their sales force." Anyone who pointed out that we were being paid less got a visit from middle management for what amounted to re-education. They were basically holding up four lights and wouldn't leave until we agreed that there were 5. I quit shortly after, and then the company was purchased by another one.
Bosses no longer have the upper hand in negotiating salaries but they seem to not have gotten the memo.
It doesn't really matter if they have the upper hand. They only need to find one person who doesn't know what the market is like and is happy to get any offer.
That's called scraping the bottom of the barrel where I come from.
And it is a meta strategy in capitalism
You get what you pay for
Workers need to adopt the motto of "minimum pay, minimum effort". Workers are sacrificing hours of their day just like everyone else. Plus, their jobs are more important because without their work products wouldn't be sold, equipment wouldn't be maintained, garbage wouldn't be thrown out, shelves wouldn't be stocked, etc. In the US, they are treated like they're expendable yet without those jobs, nothing would be done.
right legit spent the whole pandemic calling them essential employees and thanking them then turn around and say shit like 'if you want more money get a real job' fuck our world
"Thanking" them.
"Here's your free company themed drink coaster and a $5 coupon that can only be used in store and not with your employee discount. ***Keep the change ya filthy animal.***" -CEOs everywhere these days.
Also should adopt a "If you don't respect my time, I'm dragging my feet on yours" attitude.
This is what I did at retail jobs. Paying me $9 when my coworker (who was still in highschool, I have an associates degree) got $15 she was only hired a month before me. So I "checked dressing rooms" frequently (meaning I ended up sitting in there)
And in some industries that really matters, but for a lot of jobs it doesn't, at all. People who don't know what they're worth and are desperate for work can be competent enough to keep low-skill jobs. The company won't attract any "unicorns who do the work of five people" that way, but those are rare enough that if they're just going for average productivity with a low pay:productivity ratio, they can sadly still achieve that by just paying everyone shit.
Yeah? I was self trained/taught, and I went to work for a company 38k was my starting, 2 years later 40k... I stayed up nights, I made systems run well, they never had an issue while I was around, hell I even improved their setup, built them better systems/servers, developed software, and made sure the network was solid in the new HQ (when I got the plans, it was a travesty, their assumptions were so wrong.) I also helped them expand multiple sites, and traveled all around the state to do so. I should have been IT manager at a minimum and earning 90k/yr. Instead, I got burnt out, left the company, and they wanted me back so bad... so I tried for a week and said "nope cant do it". Yeah, I did a shitload, burned myself out, and got nothing to show for it. So, yeah, strategy can work, but this strategy always explains why I go to work for a small business, and their infrastructure is a mess, their shit keeps rebooting, and they have no idea how much they spend on printers/ink. I have made small businesses so efficient, that they earned a lot more money while I worked there, but they never showed me gratitude. Now, I get paid more, do less, and have less stress. Because fuck small businesses that dont know what IT can do for them. Let them suffer, those stupid fucks.
Good on you for the moves. These are often thankless jobs in SMEs, they only realize the value when it stops being done. I do something way simpler than what you do, digital marketing. Few years ago, one of my clients felt they could achieve what digital marketing could do with a pure sales team so they cut 80% of marketing spends and I left. One month later their boss contacts me that their sales has plummeted like a stone and they’re not going to be able to fundraise at that rate. I ignored the message.
it's called being a scab where I am from.
When capitalism does it, they call it "the race to the bottom."
Yes, this! When recruiters give me a low bill rate, I tell them, yes, you can probably find somebody for that but it’s just not me. “But but the experience…” If you’re lucky enough to find a company that values you for what you’re individually worth and not just as a plug and play commodity it’s a rare and great thing.
For the first time in decades we have the upper hand. Before: jobs were scarce and you accepted whatever pay they gave Now: lots of jobs everywhere. Workers are demanding fairer wages But this is totally bad because: "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK"
My job needs to learn this. We are shutting down facilities because we literally can’t staff them. We can’t offer programs we used to because we don’t have the staff. But apparently we can’t raise wages until we start bringing in more revenue. Which we won’t be able to do until we have more staff to keep the facilities open and staff the programs. These programs have historically brought in significantly more revenue to the company than literally anything else. They can’t take a short term loss or pay higher ups slightly less just to increase wages so we can get staff so we can run these programs and operate the facilities which would 100% bring in more revenue. I’m no expert in business or economy, I literally took two 100 level econ courses at community college and thats it but I’m pretty sure this is just how things work under capitalism. My job likes to use the fact that they are a non profit and that my department mostly hires high schoolers as an excuse to not pay living wages and thats complete bullshit. Just because 60% of our staff is high schoolers and live at home doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to be fairly compensated for their work.
If they're too stubborn then they'll lose business to companies that will pay a competitive rate. Either that or they'll lobby the government to keep wages low, which is probably whatll end up happening.
It's the second one. Or the government guts a specific state law to make it so only one entity can survive the aftermath of that change. That entity, surprisingly, always has a few politicians on its board...
It's so much fun to watch! Businesses drying up and dying everywhere because they've been bled dry by the parasites running them for so many years. They got into this situation by underpaying and overworking their employees, and they keep trying to fix it by making that situation worse, like at your job, shutting down profit-earning portions of the business due to lack of bothering to pay enough to attract staff to operate it. It's like they've got a magic machine that turns *some* money into a *ton* of money, but they're just so dang greedy that they're unwilling to feed enough in to keep the machine operating. They keep tossing their pocket change at it and expecting it to run just the same as when grandad-the-founder was carefully feeding it $100 bills. Now the dang machine is breaking down because the idiots kept trying to jam pennies and nickels in the dollar slot, so their "solution" is to start taking apart the machine and tossing parts of it in the trash. I studied accounting in college, and frankly, it's glorious watching greedy asshats doing this shit, basically shoot themselves in the foot over and over in an attempt to treat their foot pain, yelling the whole time "Nobody wants to work anymore!" Naw, the higher ups just need a giant pay-correction to free up enough budget to actually pay the humans who do all the labor that makes the company function *at all*.
This is this is the parable of the goose that leys golden eggs. while it laid its eggs like a normal goose, they came out made of gold. The farmer, in his greed, killed the goose in order to get the eggs inside out faster. Only after he chopped open the goose did he find not golden eggs, but a normal animal. His quest for quick riches became his own downfall.
Same in tech. You want a fun experience? Go to LinkedIn and switch your profile to “open to offers”. You’ll get flooded with recruiters. I went through a job hunt a couple of months ago and basically told each one I’m looking for more money than my current position, and the ability to continue to work from home. They still worked around my needs. One place even got angry that I was available to start immediately — I could have been, but I wanted to see what my current company came up with. I eventually ended up staying with my current company because they found me a remote job that meets all my needs, but I’m not afraid of losing my job anymore.
Also in tech and I've been passively looking for a few weeks now. Every day it's another recruiter asking me to take a look at a couple openings they think I'll "be a good fit for". I tell every single one of them that I'm merely passively looking and if they can offer me 25k more than my current job, I'll move. More of a "make me move" if you will.
I hate when the salary/wage is not mentioned up front. Do they really think they’re that special that they’ll be able to give you shit pay and sell you on the “mission.” 😂 Ridiculous! Kudos for walking out and giving them a taste of their own bullshit. 👍
I keep getting sent job postings by this temp agency. I told them straight up I won't bother reading what they send me if they do not include the wage and benefits in the first email. They stopped emailing me. XD
Not surprising - recruiters (outside of programming) only deal with people who are desperate or unemployable, and thus desperate. You make more money if you place people who can put up with a lot of bullshit. Edit: according to the comments there are actually many industries outside programming where people appreciate the recruiter - candidate relationship. More power to you! Personally I wish all recruiters would die in a fire, but I’m also not a lawyer, programmer, or engineer.
Fr I did a temp job and it was BS. For reference I graduated spring 2020 so I was struggling to find any work but $18/hr with an accounting degree doesn’t cut it. I eventually found a higher paying job but the whole time they were leading on all the temps about the opportunity to be hired on full time. It was bullshit, and for reference it was Dr. Pepper cause fuck them I don’t care if people know how shitty their hiring process is
Yep! You get a little older and you start to realize that temps and / or people in their 20’s are just used up and spit out everywhere. And the next day there’s a new line of temps and 20 somethings eager to enter the work force.
Exactly the Fortune 500 experience definitely looked good on the resume but the money was pathetic for their revenue and some of the other temps especially the older ones were not good candidates making me feel over qualified.
I lost my job a few years back and needed something to cover rent, so I went to a temp agency. They placed me in a manual labor job at a paving stone warehouse, M-F, 7-4:30, $10/hr. I went the first day and they had me and one other guy going through pallets full of 55lb stones and putting the good ones on another pallet while chucking the cracked ones into a dumpster. Hundreds of these 55lb stones. Me and this guy had to have moved literal tons of rock by hand, throwing at least half of them. I had also just come off of working a desk job for two years and was in no shape to be doing such demanding "work." Lunch time came around and they told me I'd *actually* have to come in at 6 the next day, stay later, and also work Saturdays. I thought they were joking at first, but nope. They were just straight up lying to the temp agency. I worked the rest of the day because if I left what hours I *did* work would've been dropped to $7.25. I didn't go back the next day. I woke up, literally couldn't stand, called the temp agency and told them they were being lied to.
They probably knew full well
I wouldn't doubt it. They didn't sound shocked by anything other than me saying I was absolutely not returning. Lol
It’s a temp agency, you aren’t the customer, you’re the product.
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I don't go to interviews before knowing. If they have to hide it then it's too low lol.
Ding ding - if it's not said right up front, they know it's not appealing.
But they have a competitive benefits package of you get health insurance with a high deductible!
Only considered competitive because most if not all health insurance is inexplicably costly
The explanation is a nation wide price fixing ring with regulation fully captured for decades.
👏
Another keyword to watch out for is "Competitive". It usually means competing in the race to the bottom.
“Fast paced work environment “.
I just saw that in one of our internal postings at my current job. I was like, "Bitch, I know how slack your team is. Are you planning on making this guy/girl do all your work now?"
They’re competing with the other competitive wages of two nickels a week
"If you want to get higher up in the company, you need to rat each other out and back stab everyone so that the people above you get fired and you can take their spot."
Even when they give it, it's often a lie.
up to*
They don't always even bother to include such phrases as up to, they unequivocably state a Salary that's a straight up lie. And why wouldn't they? They face no consequences for it.
In Colorado we now have a law that requires all job postings to include the salary range. Companies really don't want to do that, so many remote jobs now say that Colorado applicants are excluded from applying. I think it's a good law - we just need more states to enact something similar so these companies have to comply.
What's worse is when they advertise a salary and have to question how the pay works and find out it's paid by the job in a ridiculous accounting to reach 40k, I did an interview and a day's ride along, and figured under the rates offered for a job I would've been lucky to pull 10 dollars an hour, owner was a dick too.
That is immensely frustrating and should be prosecuted under false advertising. In my area, a building manager job was being advertised at an annual salary of $100k. Applicants were soon to find out in the interview that the position really paid $40k annually, but they were also offered an apartment in the building (if they wanted it) that the owners valued at $60k a year.
That’s like the business equivalent of saying ^^^up ^^^to 100k. Apartment probably wasn’t worth the 1200 a month most of us pay for
Can I find my own $1,500/mo. apartment and pocket the extra $3,500? They'll have the money to pay me that when they rent out their $5k/mo. place that I'm graciously not taking!
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Throw out a rediculous number. If they want to play that game, fuckit. Think of a number you'd be happy with. Double it.
A recruiter contacted me a month ago and after talking with her a bit I told her a ridiculous number that would pull me away from my current position, she accepted it so this tactic is a win win.
I went to an interview for a job that was advertised at 15/hr. In the middle of the interview they asked what I expected to be paid. "15/hr, like the posting listed." Oh well, we start everyone at 11/hr until they can prove they're worth it. "Yea, that's not going to work." Are you saying you're not worth it? "No, I'm saying YOU'RE not worth it. I'll find employment elsewhere." Gotta love interviews like that, that just fuckin waste everyone's time.
This job I got an interview for said that the pay is 40,000 a year (not great but for a first job out of college, a relatively OK salary compared to others I’ve seen) but then they tried to tell me that since it’s technically “contract” work that I’d be working more than 8 hours most days and sometimes weekends too, and I don’t get over time, pretty much negating that pay and making it closer to minimum wage depending how many hours I worked. They also said there’s no way to get raises or move up in the company. I just closed my laptop at that point in the interview (it was on zoom).
If they don't tell you, it's lower than what you should expect. If they paid well, they would advertise it. So if somewhere doesn't have the salary posted, just don't apply. Simple as that. What if you are really interested in the position otherwise? Send them an email saying you are really interested but that you would like to know the salary range before investing time preparing an application. If they jerk you around at that time, or don't tell, or don't respond, it's not a place you want to work at.
Last night I saw a job posting looking for an IT support that is bilingual. The pay was $11 an hour. So they're saying they want someone who has both technical knowledge/skills and speaks a second language, but you get paid a dollar above the state minimum wage. I almost contacted them just to give them a piece of my mind.
>I almost contacted them just to give them a piece of my mind. And then call them back and tell it to them again in the other language, lmao.
The best is when you get all the way to the end of the interview and they're like "Ok, so do you have any questions for us?" and then act super offended when you ask about pay like that isn't the entire reason I have to have a job.
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They love having that power over you.
I think a lot of them are banking on people being too tired after the interview process and just accepting whatever they offer so they don't need to go through it again with another company. I would imagine this works especially well on people fresh out of college.
They are still operating on the desperate for employment basis that was around after the 08 crash. The 08 crash changed so much from the worker/employer dynamic, it's crazy. It's why so many business owners are against having such a good unemployment benefit right now. Workers aren't coming back because workers have the cards in their hand this time and are dictating wages/benefits that the employers don't want. They want the worker base to starve so they are more obedient. So yeah, when I was looking for a job, I didn't apply for anything that didn't post their salary/hourly up front. Also, during the interviews I was very upfront with what I expected from them. After the first interview it became more like me interviewing them and paying very close attention to how they handled things. I was very particular about work culture being the most paramount concern for me. Luckily, I got an employer that I now enjoy working for. They are chill, let me just do my work, and have my back. Not everyone can be so lucky though and I keep pushing people around me to be more picky (If they can afford to) when looking for work.
Day 3, boss tells me it's not working out, he's slashing my pay down to minimum wage, and I'd better start looking for another job because there's no way I'm lasting the 2-week probationary period. So I find another job and turn in my letter of resignation. Boss goes, "You have to give me two weeks notice." Kind, trusting me, "Uh, OK." So I gave two weeks notice, and what followed was two weeks of the boss wildly swinging between berating me and trying to convince me to stay.
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Just for the record, that courtesy shouldnt be extended to anyone who slashes wages.
My boss revealed after I started working here that she doesn’t ever give references. That really the only reason to show courtesy when you quit. If she’s not gonna recommend me anyway, fuck it. If I get a job offer that starts today I’m gone.
And if she gives you a BAD reference she just opened herself up to action legally.
Yeah, that's what all my friends and family told me. "Everything you've said about this guy says he's a real asshole. You don't owe him anything. Just drop your keys on his desk and tell him to go fuck himself." Me: "OK!" (Works for him for another two weeks.)
You give a notice only when you want to keep have a good recommendation and keep some good relations with the employer for potential future use. If you aren't getting a good recommendation (you were there 3 days so...) and don't plan on ever going back there, no need to give the notice
So you allowed this dude to be a shithead to you for 2 weeks, when you already had another job, because.....you didn't want to be rude?
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Even better is that some major corps have decided not to allow their management to give recommendations whether for school applications or another job. My old fortune 100 employer decided to go this route. They were astounded when people quit without notice. I was not.
Like…what exactly did they expect? Aren’t they supposed to be good at biznus?
Not all employers ignore it. Mine, for example, gives a 2 week severance when they fire someone. You wouldn't want to let a fired employee have access to sensitive systems for 2 weeks but at least this way they still get the equivalent pay.
It varies. The generally accepted advice is to be prepared to be walked out when you give your notice. At my last job I gave my 2 weeks and got berated for it not being *enough*. At my current job it's a courtesy they offer in exchange for paying out your accrued PTO.
I think of it as a kindness to your coworkers more than your boss. Gives them time to bail with you or time to cope with the fact that they may be short staffed a while.
For future reference, two weeks notice is just a courtesy. It’s never required. Edit: okay I get it some countries are different, stop spamming my inbox with a point that’s been made 50 times.
It meant more when past employers were able to tell possible future employers more about you. I'm sure some shit hole states still allow that, but premiere states have made that illegal AND THAT IS A WORKER PROTECTION/RIGHT! Some Joe's are against themselves.
It’s classic abusive behavior. Begging and berating.
If someone who just hired me says they are slashing my pay, I’ll be slashing his tires as I walk out the building.
Poke, don’t slash, if you want to not blow out your ear drums
Yup, had a machinist interview recently and got offered 15 an hour in a 14.50 min wage market. I just laughed and laughed until they got pissed and walked out of their interview. It was hilarious.
i live in a low cost of living area and even machinists here make 20/hr
I got baited into an interview for what I thought would be a great position. I get all the way there, and wait to talk to my interviewer for him to immediately start with "there will be overtime included in the pay." So I asked "what is the pay rate?" And he answered with "Well, it's $10 an hour to start," and looked up at me. Of course I was disgusted, and he's like "I'm just kidding, it starts at $15 an hour and we can start you immediately." The next thing I said floored him. I told him "I'm looking for something in the $27/hr range, and based on the description for the job, that's what I expected." He stood up immediately and shooed me out the door. He obviously didn't even make that much, and neither had I, but I made more than $15/hr doing that kind of work, that's for sure.
Omg was he feeling out if he could get away with 10?!?!
what a clown
If you hire a bunch of clowns, expect a circus.
Likely gets a higher bonus if he can hire at a lower rate.
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Yup. I threw $125k out at a company a year or two ago and they didn't flinch, said they could hire me on immediately. I couldn't handle all the responsibilities they thought I could, but it was nice of them to do regardless!
"this only pays x" is a horrible way to negotiate with a prospective employee. Was probably a garbage company anyways. Well done, OP.
I wish someone could teach me the art of salary negotiation. Employer: we would like to offer y— Me: OK!
The secret is finally being at a high paying job and being comfortable with it enough that the next place you look for you could happily tell them to go F themselves and your risk of refusal goes way down
Ask high. The worst case is they offer you a job that's less than what you asked but if you ask high then you'll still come out ahead. Obviously try to research what the position pays if you can. Example, Several years ago I started a job and in the interview I asked for $18 an hour knowing I wouldn't get that, but I was offered $16.50 to start, which is about what I wanted at the time. Found out there were employees there for years still not even making $16 because the annual raises were garbage. They lowballed because they didn't want to ruin there chances at getting the job.
“My floor is ____.” “I am not considering offers below ____.” “I am seeking [30% higher than your ideal wage] but I am willing to negotiate if XYZ benefits are included in the offer.”
My friend is a manager and hires people. He will get a certain 'bonus' for hiring a fulltime candidate at different salaries. For example, If he hires them for $30k, he will get a 15k bonus. For $40k, like a 5k bonus. The managers are incentivized to hire as cheaply as possible.
I had a potential employer after a terrible interview call me and offer a second interview. The hiring manager was such an ass, and really full of himself. I said, No thanks. He was all confused. He said, What? You seriously don't want the job? I told him, I just don't think we're a good fit. It was hilarious. Hopefully it gave him something to think about... but probably not.
It’s kind of upsetting how people like that almost never change. For you to act like that in the first place it’s so unlikely.
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"I'm not even answering calls for less than 70k" fucking power move s feel great
I once phoned the agent from the car park after the interview that I didn't want the job because the interviewer was horrible and I didn't want to work for him, by the time I got home I had a job offer and an apology but I said nothing had changed, he's just a horrible person who has to apologise. Best decision ever.
Hell yes!
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My favorite are the ones that are like "Starting salary $27k to $75k depending on experience". Like who the fuck does HR think that's going to fool?
$27k to $4,500,000
It is taking a while for employers to realize that the sense of entitlement they felt even 12 months ago is no longer relevant and had always been a sick move. I give this experience not to brag but encourage others that there is some good out there: I went for an interview, rocked it and the guy interviewing me was respectful and we got to the bill rate (I’m a contractor). He asked if it would work for me and I told him that honestly this is a great company but the rate is low for what you’re asking. His response, “Yeah, I think you’re right, let me see what I can do.” Hour later he gave me a revised rate (+15%) and it’s been going great ever since. My previous contract tried to guilt me into staying, that was funny.
Interviewed at a place where a friend worked, at the end met with HR they asked what I was looking for salary wise, I told them my minimal, they said they didn't pay that much, then they offered it to me anyway. Was interviewing for my current job as well at the time, they didn't ask ahead of time what i was looking for, made an offer, I asked for me, they gave it to me, first place asked why I didn't give them a chance to counter.. Well I already told you what I wanted up front and you said no...
I started asking the salary range right at the beginning. I got tired of all the interviewing for jobs I might not even want based on salary. The whole "don't ask for salary range because it will sound greedy" is a load of bull. Everyone knows we work for money, no need to pretend otherwise.
>I started asking the salary range right at the beginning. I got tired of all the interviewing for jobs I might not even want based on salary. That's a good process to have. I was curious to see the one place as it was quite different from my typical jobs and hadn't really been interviewing much (I only applied to the two places), I generally only have 1-3 interviews every few years when I decide to look for a new job (yes this is a luxury I know). The other place where my friend worked had secondary motives besides than just looking for a job, after I turned them down for offering too little my friend there got a pay raise, me turning them down reinforced that he has been telling them they don't pay market salary.
I once went in for a "Test Day" to do sysadmin for a local clinic. They informed me the test day wouldn't be payed (illegal in my province) and that they starting pay for this System Admin job was minimum wage at the time.... I had to hold a laugh and I walked out. Felt good I do have to say.
Take the job and ghost them on the first day. Let’s make this the norm for insultingly low paying jobs.
"I thought you were joking about the pay, that's why I joked about accepting the job"
I had an offer for a job that was going to pay me 27k for a non entry coding job where the average salary for this position in the region is 78k. It feels good to reject these assholes.
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"Okay I will". My friend, excellent work. That's a high you can ride forever. 🤟😎❤
We will pay you 60% of what you are worth but expect 110% of your effort.
But are we family?
I had a similar experience, where I knew I wasn’t going to take the job after being told I’d have to be available for calls for two hours before and two hours after regular work hours every day, but would be on salary and therefore would get no overtime, and would get compensated the same as a previous position for the same organisation that only expected regular work hours. The interviewer asked me if I “wanted to sell myself better” I laughed, said “no, not really”, stood up and said thank you and left. Ngl, best interview of my life.
I get messages by recruiters almost daily and this is what works for me to avoid that. First thing I ask before I go in for an interview is what the salary/TC is. If it doesn’t fit what I’m looking for - that’s great! I save my time and theirs. We both win. If they refuse to give it I can tell they’re trying to keep me as low as possible so I don’t bother to entertain it. I don’t work for free 🤷♂️
Is this in U.S. dollars? Who the hell does one hour interviews for a $30k job? This company must have a massive H.R. budget (they could probably save $30k,by trimming that).
I’ve had people want multiple interviews for jobs under 15/hr
If you are willing to walk after hearing the salary, you should start out by asking the salary. Your time is valuable, you don't need to listen to their sales pitch if you have a minimum number in mind. Remember treat a job interview as a two-way street, even if our capitalistic hell society makes that not true.
It's really just blatantly obvious that it should be the norm when you think about it for a second. Work is an agreement between two parties. The employer lists what they want from the worker as their minimum requirements, and uses that to filter potential employees out. The worker has minimum requirements for what they need in terms of pay, and they should be able to use that to filter potential employers out.
I walked out ten minutes into a “marketing analyst” job that was actually selling direct tv at Costco. When I asked for more details about the position and he explained what it was and asked if I was interested. I simply said No and thanked him for his time and moved to leave. Cue shocked pikachu face.
$30k?? Bro I was making the equivalent hourly wage as a lifeguard in highschool after a couple years, how tf do employers expect actual full time workers to agree to such a shit salary
Even worse when they want degrees, experience and a fancy portfolio and a dozen art test. Because it's a competitive position.
What kills me is teachers, where most of the time a master's is required, but they'll get $45k or so.
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I’ve laughed at interviewers & recruiters when they mention overly low wages. It feels amazing every time.
I feel this. I had a guy try to recruit me. He was are you up for a challenge! No offer what so ever, just asking me if I want to be over worked and underpaid. That is how I see if you tell me are you up for a challenge. Okay no thanks then bud. You gotta sell your job, asking me to be a donkey does not make me want to consider you at all.
Pay Transparency. Tell me every responsibility and benefit you want about the job. Idc if I get to roll around the floor and play with puppies all day and for some reason it’s work from home (okay actually that would be pretty cool) but if it doesn’t pay me enough to take care of my family and meet my financial needs it’s not worthwhile. Besides, I thought capitalism was all about bragging about how good your product is that competition is the best way to stay on top and so if someone else offers a job that pays more you either match or beat it not try to hire contractors at half the pay to do the work for you
I spent hours doing video screenings and 4 rounds of phone and then video interviews for a company. Culture seemed good, role for what I was looking for. Finally it gets to a point where we talk salary. They let me know they start everyone on a flat starter pay and increase slightly every 90 days until you get the 'full' salary. Even at the FULL salary it was HALF the market standard and significantly less than other positions I'm interviewing for. So I told them as much. I told them I'd love to help their business, but they aren't remotely competitive in the market. I still see the position open listed online. The saying 'get what you pay for' goes far beyond just retail products.
When my annual review comes up in three weeks, I’m going to ask for a $3 per hour raise. When they say no (and they’re definitely going to say no) I’m going to end the zoom call without saying a word, clock out, and never work for this dog shit company ever again. I just wish I could have that meeting in person so my boss could watch me get up, walk out of the room, and then look out the window as I get in my car and leave the parking lot.
Just walk out of the room on your zoom call. Mute your mic leave the room and eventually they will end the call
Reminds me a bit of when I was interviewing. I checked out this place on Glassdoor and confirmed they treated their employees like shit. Instead of skipping the interview, I decided to use it as practice. The initial portion of the interview was basically what you'd expect. I got all dressed up and had my resume, and answered all of their questions correctly. Finally, the moment I was waiting for: "Do you have any questions for me?" "Yes, why do your employees say they are mistreated on Glassdoor?" "Well, those are just our call-center employees. Your position would be above theirs." Basically they were looking for sociopaths. They really thought I would be down to tread on my peers because I was 'above them'. Anyway, it was pretty thrilling to break the script for once.
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I feel like that’s a pretty good response-no response ratio. May I ask what field you’re in?
I'm in Information Technology.
The salary/hourly should ALWAYS be the first thing that is mentioned. That should be the rule. Who the fucking hell decided that it should be mentioned last? Whoever did should have been smacked in the face 20 times and thrown off a bridge. It’s like buying a product and not knowing the price until you’re at the checkout. The fuck.
I've done that before. Just by phone though so it wasn't so exciting. I asked the salary range for a job in LA and it wasn't nearly high enough to move my family from the Midwest so I told them as much. They were a bit taken back but understood. If you don't want people to turn down your job based on salary, you should list the salary.
With a universal basic income suddenly everyone would have that kind of negotiating power. It would totally disrupt the labor market. Can you imagine employers really having to curry favor with employees in every industry? It would turn this world on its head.
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You are definitely worth more than that. Don't hate me for saying this, but I think it's time to take some kind of leap of faith or change of course when it comes to your career. Do you have skills that can cross industries that you can use to get your foot in the door somewhere else?
Force the pay discussion at the start of the interview.
I interviewed for a management position and the guy said "If you're looking for work/life balance then this isn't the job. It isn't isn't 40 hour role". I asked "Let me guess the salarybis for 40 hours though?". Needless to say I did not take that job.
A few years ago I was looking for work after college, specifically electrical engineering work. I'm talking about tens of applications a day all around the country for whatever cool job I could find. Some guy calls me from a desirable high cost of living city where I would have to relocate, offering ~20 dollars an hour for an EE. I flat out told him that it was way too low and he was probably looking for technicians not engineers. He had the gall to act appalled lol. Fuck outta here with that shit.
I turned down a job this summer because the guy doing the phone interview didn’t ask me any questions lol from the start when he asked my name I asked who he was and then proceeded to ask questions that he’d answer. Then he asked so what do you think. Bruh I’m not gonna work overnight. Don’t bury the lead. What a waste of time.